Likewise.Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper
Likewise.
Still the 122 team OPS the Yanks put up was something like 3rd best in team history IIRC. Would love this year's squad to best that mark but let's see it happen over 100+ games instead of 12 before we crown this TGOE v 2.0 since the Tigers a few years ago have that title trade marked.
Why would Tex sit for Nick Johnson?????
Would Matsui's inability to walk be relevent? Cuz they weren't always sure about that last year.
Still not sure what you point is.
We didn't sign Johnson OVER Matsui anyway. He makes a lot less money that went to sign a center fielder that makes a HUGE defensive upgrade on this team.
Johnson is a cheaper alternative that hopefully isn't as gimpy as Matsui ended up being. Much as we loved him.
He has a fabulous OBP that works in the 2 hole that opened when we didn't keep Damon. (also for $ AND defensive reasons)
This isn't really all that complicated.
Barring an injury to a main player, I don't see how this offense won't top last year's version. They're too good. It's scary.
Are you always going to be this obtuse or only your first month here?Why would Tex sit for Nick Johnson?????
Would Matsui's inability to walk be relevent? Cuz they weren't always sure about that last year.
Still not sure what you point is.
We didn't sign Johnson OVER Matsui anyway. He makes a lot less money that went to sign a center fielder that makes a HUGE defensive upgrade on this team.
Johnson is a cheaper alternative that hopefully isn't as gimpy as Matsui ended up being. Much as we loved him.
He has a fabulous OBP that works in the 2 hole that opened when we didn't keep Damon. (also for $ AND defensive reasons)
This isn't really all that complicated.
this is simply brain-exploding.
100% agreement.
Nobody (that I've seen) chose Nick OVER Hideki. Best alternative once Matsui was gone is exactly correct.
And I don't think anyone on the Yankees or this forum thinks Matsui was washed up. Fabulous hitter.
But THEY saw him every day. THEY know what went on the lockerroom for him just to be able to DH! I think I've got to trust their judgement on this because they knew better than anyone what they were letting go offensively.
You'll have to explain what I'm being obtuse about first before I can answer that.
Hey, just my opinion, but "currently" I'll take our 139 OPS+ team with our 120 OPS+ #9 hitter (which for me helps make it the most circular I've seen). The number of runs scored is TOTALLY irrelevant. There is a difference between most circular and most potent.
#27and still Counting.
12 games is all I'm saying. This team clearly has a lot of offensive potential and is going to see a lot of middle relief as they drive up starters pitch counts but I think its a bit early to be making sweeping judgments after just 4 series.
Though I must admit it is impressive that they have come against BOS, LAA, TB & TEX and not say BAL, KC, CLE & TOR
not really, because you figure that while some currently ice-cold players like teixeira, arod, and johnson start to heat up, the production from the some of the currently hot yankees (like jeter, posada, and cano) will considerably taper off.
i think this year's team will end up doing about just the same as last year's, with maybe an over/under of 8 on the OPS+ side
makes sense, but alas ........ i'm afraid you're too late ...........
Geez, way to blow a simple statement out of proportion. It was really how the bottom of the order has started that promped my "most circular" thought that was prefaced with the use of "currently".
The bottom of any lineup is what makes it so circular, NOT how many runs the lineup in total scores. And after you decided to take issue with a simple opinion, I took a look and our 7,8,9 hitters have a combined average of 127 OPS+. So yes, without making any sweeping judgements, and not trying to project at all that this will be the case for the entire season, and with my short term memory fully intact, it is my opinion that "currently" THIS is the most circular lineup i have ever witnessed".
#27and still Counting.
Nope - referring to the Melky pic in post 378.
They have a 3 hitter with a 41 OPS+ right now. Not excatly what you want in a "circular lineup". Look I realize Tex is probably going to finish the season with and OPS+ quite a bit higher than what Gardner has right now but let's not lose site of the fact that a few days ago, before Gardner got a whole bunch of infield singles this weekend - our 9 hitter was being questioned about weather he belonged in an MLB lineup by some. I'll be thrilled if Gardner keeps this pace but I'm willing to bet good money he finshes the season with an OPS+ less than his current 120. Interested in that bet?
OldYankeeFan is correct, this lineup is better than last years.
The coming of The Carpenter.
“I love to hit. I want to hit .300, .400, .500. I just love to hit.”
Gardner had a .400 OBP, then it went down to .333 (league average) now back up to .444. From the 9 hole.
The entire lineup could have an OBP over .360
The coming of The Carpenter.
“I love to hit. I want to hit .300, .400, .500. I just love to hit.”
So instead, they sign Nick "The Iron Horse" Johnson?
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.- Barry Manilow
They could. If they do this will be a better team than last year offensively. And that's a scary thought. I do like this team a lot and think it can be better than last year but I still think it is way to early to say it is better for sure.
Haha. The fact is that OPS+ is not IMO relevant to measuring Gardners individual offensive performance. However, I'll be happy to bet he will have a wRC+ of 100 or higher this year (that of an average offensive MLB player). As an anti Gardner poster who believes he is only a 4th OF, therefore projecting him to be well below average offensively, betting that he isn't =/> the average player should be a no-brainer for you. So interested in that bet?
#27and still Counting.
Last time there was a meaningful bet on this board I had to stare at Melky's breasts for month. Please - don't do it.
That said, I agree with your projection.
I think it is quite possible he can be an average MLB player offensively so no, not interested in it.
I could be wrong but I though it was you who were touting "our 9 hitter with his 120 OPS+".
And yes when he came up I did think he was a 4th OF and he may still be but he keeps hitting and running like this and he'll be much more than a 4th OF. But honestly his minor league numbers scremed 4th OF. The biggest thing in his favor is his reduced K-rate. He keeps this low K rate and he can reach the Brett Butler ceiling comp that I've been talking about since he was called up in 2008 and aviod the fate of the Willie Tevares and Corey Patterson of the MLB encyclopedia
IMO, Patterson and Tavaras were never good comps to begin with, 'cause they never took walks in the minors or the majors.
Brett Butler is a good comp on the positive side, as Butler OBP'd above .400 in the minors.
On the negative side we have Reggie Willits, who has also had .400+ OBP numbers in the minors, but has yet to/never turned into a full-time major league player. He's become a useful 4th OF for LAA.
That is basically the spectrum across which Gardner may fall. It's huge, but it's clearer than anything else.
"First batter up well here's the pitch: it's a curve. Second batter up because the first got served"
No, I merely made an innocent comment that "currently" our lineup was the most circular I have witnessed, based primarily on the start of our 7,8,9 hitters who for me, is the group who is most responsible for making a lineup circular. You're the one to take that opinion and attach to it things I did not say or mean. Go back through my Gardner posts and you'll see I have no use for OPS+ when it comes to Gardner. OBP, wOBA and wRC+ are the only stats that matter to me when talking Gardner.
Nice to see you starting to come around.
I mentioned this earlier today (going from 16% last year to 10% so far this year) along with his GB/FB ratio going from 1.00 last year to 2.86 so far this season, as a very good sign that he once again he is making a progression from his previous season.
Where will he end up? No one really knows but all I ever wanted when it came to Gardner was for him to be given an opportunity so we can find out. So I'm just happy that Melky was dealt with idea of giving Gardner that chance.
#27and still Counting.
Cashman has said several times they were surprised they got the production they did from Matsui given how bad his knees were, and they clearly didn't think it was a good gamble to try and squeeze blood from a stone one more year. Its nice that Matsui is mashing in April, lets see where he is in August when those knees have been drained 4 or 5 times.
Nick has an injury history, but a series of really bad breaks is not the same as a chronic condition, especially when the guy is 5 years younger and they are taking him out of fielding duties.
bada bing. bada boom.
Well Winn looks toast and I like Thanes as a lefty masher but don't want him getting more than 40ish or so starts this year so I'm pretty sure ell have a good idea what Gardner can or can't do come August.
I hope he keeps up this pace but I'll be very happy if puts up a .280/.350 line with an 80%+ SB success rate. That would fantastic as far as I'm concerned, anything better would be just gravy.
Not to mention, heaven forbid something happens with Tex at least NJ gives us a very good defensive 1B option. Swish could play 1B, but then we'd have a hole in RF. Love me some Matsui, but that guy should never pick up a glove again.
I agree as that's pretty much what I projected him to do this year. However I probably have a greater ceiling for him this year than most here as I am a believer in Gardners ability for decent progressions from one year to the next. So far this year his progressions appears to be in K% and GB/FB ratio. Even if he ends up with just 1/2 of the progression he has shown so far in those areas, he could end up with around a .380 OBP, which would have put him 3rd among all of last years CF. Gravy indeed.
#27and still Counting.
intriguing as well as histerical.
i've made this argument for some time now and agree with you whole-heartedly...OPS+ will never be an accurate measurement of Gardner's value- his ability to get on base (and that alone) will be the measure.
"You know what's coming," former Kansas City Royals first baseman Mike Sweeney once said, "but you know what's coming in horror movies too. It still gets you."
-"Mariano Saves," 10/5 S.I.
Interesting stat.
Brett Gardner (and Jorge Posada) made contact with 100% of the strikes he swung at.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...n=2010&month=0
His overall contact% is also 8th highest at 93.5% for batters with a minimum of 30PAs.
Pretty good sign that he's not getting overpowered anymore IMO.
he mentioned that Long's adjustments sped up his swing, so, given with his good eye, he can afford to let the ball travel more (thus the oppo-hits)
"First batter up well here's the pitch: it's a curve. Second batter up because the first got served"
Exactly, and it also helps also account for his better K% and better BB% as he is seeing the ball longer before comitting to a swing. He also seems to be staying on the ball longer, keeping the bat level, for a longer time through the impact zone which I think is responsible for his much better GB/FB ratio. These look to be significant progressions. Whether or not he can sustain them and to what degree is yet to be seen, but at a mimimum I have to believe some of it will stick resullting another season in which he improved himelf and his value to this team.
Slowly but surely Brett has made improvements to his swing. It's still not a thing of beauty but I don't think there are many left who would kick it out of bed.
#27and still Counting.
I like Gardner. He's a slap hitter, but with him, a high, slow chopper that gets past the pitcher is a double, because he'll beat it out and then steal second. He really puts pressure on the defense.
I would have no problem with moving Gardner to lead off and batting Jeter in the two hole, although that would likely cost Jeter some points off his batting average (but increase his RBI total).
I just wish Gardner would learn how to drag bunt.
You don't mess with Jeter at leadoff, Gardner is not going anywhere else besides 7-9 as long as 2 is in the lineup
in one off games, fine but brett needs to stay in the 9 spot.
Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away; 'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...
Why not? He's getting on base at a good clip and stealing bases. With Nick Johnson struggling they would score more runs with Gardner leading off.
And why does Jeter have to lead off? Jeter has hit in the 2 hole before. He's batted third, too. With his ability to go the other way, Jeter is an excellent #2 hitter.
Jeter is just a good hitter period. Doesn't matter where you put him, so long as it is near the top of the order to maximize his plate appearances.
jeter was the best 2-hole hitter on the planet from '96-about '05, but since then he started grounding into way too many double plays. i actually prefer having him in the leadoff spot cause he gets so many hits to start the game. the only thing i wish he would do is take a few more pitches to allow the batters behind him to see how the pitcher's stuff is that day, but i guess having nick "go for 10 pitches/ab" johnson behind him takes care of that. that was one good thing damon did as a leadoff hitter, take a lot of pitches. if jeter took 5-6 pitches most leadoff ab's and then the pitcher had to try to strike out or walk NJ (since that's all he is doing these days) i think we would go through pitchers even faster.
all in all i cant complain though since jeter hits the ball. i think eventually gardner could be a great leadoff man, he reminds me of juan pierre in his heyday but with a better steal %, but i agree that #2 is leading off til he takes himself out of that spot for the betterment of the team (not any time soon).
IMO Nick Johnson should be #9 he's pretty useless at #2
he could certainly do fine there, but a guy that has a .409 obp with .158 average, second in the league in P/PA at 4.59 and leads the league in BB isn't exactly "useless" in the #2 hole. hell, the guy has only 6 hits, but has 5 rbi's.
if people are going to give tex a pass and are just waiting for him to hit the ball, why don't you give NJ a chance to do the same. if he keeps up this P/PA and BB rate and actually starts swinging and hitting the ball the guy might actually lead the league in OBP this year.
plus if he is still on base cause of the walks and tex and arod start hitting bombs he is going to score a hell of a lot of runs.
hey, is tex useless @ 3# ?? i think they just need to give it time. your best OBP guy at the end is somewhat aaaaahhhhhs-bk-wards. let's see how nick hits over the next month before we get too bent out of shape. also, gardner has played nicely but I'd like to see him do this over a larger stretch and also let him get his swing worked out (by his own admission) as well.
Sorry but I hate Nick Johnson, kind of like you guys that hate Gardner which is very ironic
lol, i don't hate gardner, i've been one of his biggest fans since he was in the minors, i always thought he would be a great piece for this team. i'm really glad to see that he is starting to put everything together. i always thought he would even end up being a better player than ellsbury but i guess we'll have to see after another couple seasons.Sorry but I hate Nick Johnson, kind of like you guys that hate Gardner which is very ironic
i think NJ is getting a little too much flack, especially since the guy isn't off to a hot start but is still producing.
It's really not a question of like or dislike of either player. It's about scoring more runs. Until Johnson starts hitting, I like Gardner leading off. Ride the hot hand. I'm not a big fan of set lineups anyway.
But Johnson still gets on base all the time. Wouldnt' that lead to more runs?
I wouldnt exactly call Gardner hot. He used his speed and took advantage of some shotty fielding in that Texas series. He hasnt exactly been scolding the ball but he is getting on base. Still wouldnt move him out of the 9 spot though especially with Jeter hitting well behind him.
If you listen to the fans you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.- Brian Cashman
This makes a whole lot of sense to me. I don't understand how a guy who is getting on base more than 40% of the time is hurting us, especially the way he makes the pitcher work.
"Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late" -- Branch Rickey
hey, wait until nick gets on track and is hitting .280. i actually like brett a lot, and think he deserves a shot. it's way too early to judge either. cheerioSorry but I hate Nick Johnson, kind of like you guys that hate Gardner which is very ironic
>> tex > a rod > cano > jorge > grandy > swish ......... when nick and tex join the party, and a rod resumes his regular HR clip, it should be insane. #2 is exactly where nick should be, directly in front of the boppers.
I completely disagree.....Johnson takes alot of pitches and his OBP is higher than Gardner. I'm stoked with what Gardner has done already, but he should not take Johnson's spot in the lineup.
Hoping Rivera can pitch forever!
Fire Thomson now!!!
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