The 2010 Patriots Thread

[#1PaFan]

That will be fun watching brady throw 6 TDs on the lions will enjoying thanksgiving turkey.

Exactly. I couldn't have written that any better.

[The FUTURE]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09...s&confirm=true

pats get 4 more picks in the NFL draft. one in the 6th round and 3 7th round picks. Maybe gives us some extra picks to package together to move up in the draft.

[bnorris85]

Pats signed tory holt

oldmygod

[MTYankee23]

Pats signed tory holt

oldmygod

Actually had a fairly productive year last year in Jacksonville's run first attack. over 50 receptions and 700 yards in each of the past 2 seasons. He's also only 8 months older than Randy Moss, and a clear upgrade over Sam Aiken.

[bnorris85]

Yeah from everything I have read about him in the past he is a very smart player unlike galloway.

[Snatch Catch]

I really, really, really like this signing for NE.

Wow. It sucks for me as a Jets fan, because I think he's perfect for them.

[RhodyYanksFan]

The AFC East is gonna be so difficult to win/fun to watch this season. Poor, poor Buffalol.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

The AFC East is gonna be so difficult to win/fun to watch this season. Poor, poor Buffalol.

The Patriots will wipe the floor with the Bills again as usual but I do not think it's far fetched that we split with the Jets and Dolphins. That said, sometime before I die the Bills will make the playoffs again (I hope).

[The FUTURE]

Patriots select CB Devin McCourty with the 27th pick after trading down twice and they picked up a 3rd round pick for trading down. With Dez Byrant sitting on the board at the 24th pick, the pats traded down, with Sergio Kindle, Jared Orick and Jerry Hughes on the board at 27th, they took McCourty, makes little sense to me. I woulda taken Byrant who is a top-5 talent and scared the ................ out of teams trying to figure out how to stop Moss/Bryant/Edleman/Welker/Holt/Crumpler/Faulk in the pass game. With Bryant they could of used the 3-2nd round picks to upgrade the DEF. but hey, shoulda, coulda, woulda. Welcome Devin.

[S2]

I would have liked to seen them take Bryant, too.

Hopefully they can get good value on the 2nd day - tons of picks and possibilities.

[pjfan]

Great day for the Pats. Not only did they fill some needs, they were able to pick up a potential high 2nd round pick next year (Carolina's). They're the only team with two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders next year.

Rob Gronkowski - TE (Arizona)
Jermaine Cunningham - OLB (Florida)
Brandon Spikes - ILB (Florida)
Taylor Price - WR (Ohio)

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

Great day for the Pats. Not only did they fill some needs, they were able to pick up a potential high 2nd round pick next year (Carolina's). They're the only team with two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders next year.

Rob Gronkowski - TE (Arizona)
Jermaine Cunningham - OLB (Florida)
Brandon Spikes - ILB (Florida)
Taylor Price - WR (Ohio)

I liked every pick except for Spikes. I don't think he will transition well to the NFL game. We shall see though.

Having two first and two second rounders is sick though, especially since one of them will likely be a top ten pick since the Raiders still believe that Russell can be their QB.

[keg411]

I liked every pick except for Spikes. I don't think he will transition well to the NFL game. We shall see though.

Having two first and two second rounders is sick though, especially since one of them will likely be a top ten pick since the Raiders still believe that Russell can be their QB.

Didn't Oakland trade for Jason Campbell? Or was that just a rumor?

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

Didn't Oakland trade for Jason Campbell? Or was that just a rumor?

It happened this afternoon. I posted that message before the draft started today. A good move by the Raiders.

[Snatch Catch]

It happened this afternoon. I posted that message before the draft started today. A good move by the Raiders.

There were a bunch of good moves by them the last few days. Very foreign to see.

They should be greatly improved next year.

[JWHIII]

No surprise, Thomas finally released. Guy was a waste of money and seemed like a dick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl...ory?id=5136454

[pjfan]

No surprise, Thomas finally released. Guy was a waste of money and seemed like a dick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl...ory?id=5136454

Addition by subtraction.

[Snatch Catch]

I'm a bit confused about the Patriots and their drafting.

I think it's unendingly amazing the way they keep adding value by trading down, but at some point don't you have to cash in on that value in order to reap it's benefit?

It's sort of analagous to a billionaire miser. Yeah, he's rich, but what does he have to show for it? He can say he's rich?

I normally would question it, but it would seem to me that this would have been a great draft in which to throw down the hammer, rather then tread water, get solid picks, and push the value towards next year.

The depth of the draft allowed them to gain value for the future while still putting together a solid/average class. Why not just CRUSH this draft instead? Isn't this the year to do it?

[The FUTURE]

yeah...all im going to say is....dez byrant

[MTYankee23]

yeah...all im going to say is....dez byrant

What about him exactly?

Of all the WRs that have been successful in the system, none of them have been acquired with a high draft pick.

Moss was a trade for a 4th rounder.
Welker was a trade for a 2nd and 7th.
Branch was drafted late 2nd.
Givens was drafted in the 7th round
Edelman was drafted in the 7th round.
Gaffney was an unheralded FA signing.

The two highest picks they used to draft WRs were outright busts.

Bethel Johnson, pick #45 in 2003
Chad Jackson, pick #36 in 2006

I personally don't buy the nonsense of Brady needing "toys". The 2006 team was basically a blown PI call (league issued apology) and a gassed defense from winning the SB. That team had Caldwell, Gaffney, Jackson, Troy Brown, and Doug Gabriel as its receivers. Brady makes receivers, not the other way around, so why waste draft pick capital on a position Brady can't "make".

In this league with the pass friendly rules, you need at least 3 solid corners, if not 4. They did the right thing adding McCourty.

[MTYankee23]

I'm a bit confused about the Patriots and their drafting.

I think it's unendingly amazing the way they keep adding value by trading down, but at some point don't you have to cash in on that value in order to reap it's benefit?

It's sort of analagous to a billionaire miser. Yeah, he's rich, but what does he have to show for it? He can say he's rich?

I normally would question it, but it would seem to me that this would have been a great draft in which to throw down the hammer, rather then tread water, get solid picks, and push the value towards next year.

The depth of the draft allowed them to gain value for the future while still putting together a solid/average class. Why not just CRUSH this draft instead? Isn't this the year to do it?

I'm not sure, what would crushing this draft have entailed? By the sounds of their evaluations the draft's value was between late 1st and early 3rd rounds. The Pats took 5 players in that area, and a 6th who it appears fell a little further because of non-violent off field issues, plus they turned a late 3rd round pick into what could potentially be a very early 2nd round pick.

[Snatch Catch]

I'm not sure, what would crushing this draft have entailed?

Putting together one of the clear top 2 or 3 draft classes in what was one of the most talented draft pools the sport has ever seen.

I understand the value concept with 100% clarity, my question is when are they going to throw the hammer down, and why wasn't this the appropriate time to do so?

I think they've done an incredible job accumulating value over the years, but I don't see anything that shows me that they've gotten any significant production above any other solid team via their tactics.

[RhodyYanksFan]

They have a rough schedule this year. My father in law is a season ticket holder and he's not looking forward to two home night games in December.

[Mezmerize]

Does anyone know much about Cunningham? Seems to me the Pats biggest need was pass rush from the OLB. If this guy can't do that, I'm super pissed they passed on Kindle. I can live with them passing on Bryant, but they need an impact pass rusher now. I think they may have screwed the pooch by taking McCourty. We'll see.

[Snatch Catch]

Does anyone know much about Cunningham? Seems to me the Pats biggest need was pass rush from the OLB. If this guy can't do that, I'm super pissed they passed on Kindle. I can live with them passing on Bryant, but they need an impact pass rusher now. I think they may have screwed the pooch by taking McCourty. We'll see.

I've read that Cunningham has a nice upside, and you can't blame them for passing on Kindle when there were serious concerns about his knee.

[Mezmerize]

I've read that Cunningham has a nice upside, and you can't blame them for passing on Kindle when there were serious concerns about his knee.

Yea I heard microfracture? Still, he was very productive so I'm not sure when that became a problem.

[Snatch Catch]

Yea I heard microfracture? Still, he was very productive so I'm not sure when that became a problem.

I guess there are two issues - IS it a problem, and WILL it be a problem.

I'd tend to think that a lot of teams thought that while it may not be a significant problem now, it will almost certainly comprimise his career at some point in the future.

Also, he didn't have a clean sheet besides that.

[MTYankee23]

Does anyone know much about Cunningham? Seems to me the Pats biggest need was pass rush from the OLB. If this guy can't do that, I'm super pissed they passed on Kindle. I can live with them passing on Bryant, but they need an impact pass rusher now. I think they may have screwed the pooch by taking McCourty. We'll see.

So if they felt that having 3 strong CBs and pass rushing OLB was a need, you'd rather they had Kindle in round 1 and a lesser CB over McCourty and Cunningham?

There was a run on CBs after the McCourty pick, and I'm not sold that Kindle had the size the Patriots look for in the OLB position.

In terms of them not having a clear top 2-3 class, I think it's way too early to even begin to judge that. I think they used their draft pick capital very wisely in this draft, as there's only so many open roster spots to begin with.

[Snatch Catch]

So if they felt that having 3 strong CBs and pass rushing OLB was a need, you'd rather they had Kindle in round 1 and a lesser CB over McCourty and Cunningham?

There was a run on CBs after the McCourty pick, and I'm not sold that Kindle had the size the Patriots look for in the OLB position.

In terms of them not having a clear top 2-3 class, I think it's way too early to even begin to judge that. I think they used their draft pick capital very wisely in this draft, as there's only so many open roster spots to begin with.

My point is, despite accumulating great value in the years leading up to this draft, there is little distinguishment between the immediate quality of their haul and anybody else's.

The immediate value in what they did in the draft was once again pushed forward to next year.

[MTYankee23]

My point is, despite accumulating great value in the years leading up to this draft, there is little distinguishment between the immediate quality of their haul and anybody else's.

The immediate value in what they did in the draft was once again pushed forward to next year.

It was? They turned 1 late 3rd rounder into a 2nd rounder next year. The first rounder they have in 2011 was from the Seymour trade. They did that because they assumed Oakland would be a bottom 15 team and there would be a rookie salary cap.

They got 5-6 top 100 talents in this (a loaded) draft (depending on where you rank Cunningham). I think that's a an absolute distinguishment in immediate quality. Wasn't the strength of this draft in it's depth rather than the number of elite talents at the top?

By comparison, Seattle, who most people say killed this draft, walked out with 3 top 100 talents.

[Mezmerize]

So if they felt that having 3 strong CBs and pass rushing OLB was a need, you'd rather they had Kindle in round 1 and a lesser CB over McCourty and Cunningham?

There was a run on CBs after the McCourty pick, and I'm not sold that Kindle had the size the Patriots look for in the OLB position.

In terms of them not having a clear top 2-3 class, I think it's way too early to even begin to judge that. I think they used their draft pick capital very wisely in this draft, as there's only so many open roster spots to begin with.

Well, I'm not sure that CB was a need. They have a lot of depth there already and by all accounts thus far, it doesn't appear that McCourty will be a starter next year. I think Snatch is right, the more the Pats pass on players that can make an impact immediately, the more the value gets pushed into the future. Sometimes, this works (see 2003/2004 drafts) and sometimes it doesn't. The fact of the matter is, the only pass rusher they have on the roster right now is Banta-Cain. I am not OK going into camp like that. Maybe Kindle wasn't the right fit for any assortment of reasons, as the Pats were not the only team to pass on him, but regardless, IMO, their biggest need was filled by a question mark. I hope I'm wrong though and Cunningham comes in and violates every quarterback they see.

[Snatch Catch]

Yeah, I mean, I think they had a good, solid draft, but not noticeably better than anyone else.

If this was the first year they had done it, I would be less confused/critical, but this is multiple years running now.

An interesting theory that just ran through my mind is that Belichick is building all of this future value for ONE player, and that is the guy who replaces Brady.

Assuming the Patriots 1st rounder continues to be a mid-round pick at best, trading up for a top 3 pick to draft a franchise QB is completely out of the question - The point value of the 20th pick in the 1st is 850, whereas the value of the #2 overall pick is 2,600. The value of that team's ENTIRE FOLD OF DRAFT PICKS for the year totals less than 2,600. However, if you keep pushing a whole bunch of value forward, spending it miserly year to year specifically for the purpose of acquiring a franchise QB, then I think that's worth it.

Other than that, it seems to me that the worth in pushing draft value back year after year is low. Even if they land a stud DT or OT in next years draft because of it, what about the lack of better players being on the team in the years prior due to passing and trading down? The franchise QB scenario is the only one that makes sense to me (and there happen to be TWO available in the 2011 draft).

[MTYankee23]

Well, I'm not sure that CB was a need. They have a lot of depth there already and by all accounts thus far, it doesn't appear that McCourty will be a starter next year. I think Snatch is right, the more the Pats pass on players that can make an impact immediately, the more the value gets pushed into the future. Sometimes, this works (see 2003/2004 drafts) and sometimes it doesn't. The fact of the matter is, the only pass rusher they have on the roster right now is Banta-Cain. I am not OK going into camp like that. Maybe Kindle wasn't the right fit for any assortment of reasons, as the Pats were not the only team to pass on him, but regardless, IMO, their biggest need was filled by a question mark. I hope I'm wrong though and Cunningham comes in and violates every quarterback they see.

Well that was really my question, who did we pass on in this draft that would have made an immediate impact? Was it Bryant? Because top receivers don't generally provide much value in their first year. Kindle? There are a lot of question marks about him as well.

McCourty can make an immediate impact at the Nickle position (and push Wilhite to the Dime where he's probably best suited), and then in 2011 push Bodden and Butler for a starting spot.

I think in 2006-2007 (the drafts that really killed them) they did more trading up and trading for veterans, and those drafts were awful when you look at them now. (the Chad Jackson trade was a great example of this).

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why trading a late 3rd rounder when we already have 6 top 100-type talents from this draft into a 2nd rounder from a team that's going into next season with Matt Moore at QB (and will probably spending time grooming Claussen by season end) is pushing a ton of extra value into the next year.

Last year the Patriots drafted 6 top 100 guys (and were still able to turn 2 3rd rounders into 2nd's this year).

My issue isn't how they drafted in 2009 and 2010, it's how they drafted before that, and I still don't remember the Patriots trading anything higher than a 3rd into the next year altogether.

[MTYankee23]

Yeah, I mean, I think they had a good, solid draft, but not noticeably better than anyone else.

If this was the first year they had done it, I would be less confused/critical, but this is multiple years running now.

An interesting theory that just ran through my mind is that Belichick is building all of this future value for ONE player, and that is the guy who replaces Brady.

Assuming the Patriots 1st rounder continues to be a mid-round pick at best, trading up for a top 3 pick to draft a franchise QB is completely out of the question - The point value of the 20th pick in the 1st is 850, whereas the value of the #2 overall pick is 2,600. The value of that team's ENTIRE FOLD OF DRAFT PICKS for the year totals less than 2,600. However, if you keep pushing a whole bunch of value forward, spending it miserly year to year specifically for the purpose of acquiring a franchise QB, then I think that's worth it.

Other than that, it seems to me that the worth in pushing draft value back year after year is low. Even if they land a stud DT or OT in next years draft because of it, what about the lack of better players being on the team in the years prior due to passing and trading down? The franchise QB scenario is the only one that makes sense to me (and there happen to be TWO available in the 2011 draft).

I would actually guess they'd be more likely to groom a late round pick than they would to trade an entire stockpile of picks for a "franchise" QB, especially when their current QB, one of the best of all time, was drafted in the 6th round, and they managed an 11-5 season out of a 7th round pick who didn't start a single game in college.

[S2]

Wes Welker, the same Wes Welker who had surgery just a few months ago, was at OTA's today, practicing.

No more tweeting from practice. Catch you after. My opinion on Welker timetable has changed. Drastically.

http://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/15257978091


And then there is always this, from just over a week ago:

[Snatch Catch]

Is that the Sports Guy at about 23-26 seconds in?

[bnorris85]

Is that the Sports Guy at about 23-26 seconds in?

bwahhaha i think it is

[S2]

Don't shoot the messenger.

T.O. bats his eyelashes at the Pats

"I'd definitely be open to that," Owens told WJMN in Boston (via WEEI.com) regarding the possibility of joining forces with Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and the receiver T.O. has chided as "the other 81."

And, for the first time, there's proof that Owens would take something less than $5 million for 16 games of regular-season football. Owens told WJMN that he'd accept less money, LeBron-style, for a crack at playing with the Pats.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-at-the-pats/

[JWHIII]

Sign him up

[pjfan]

I don't think it could hurt. He certainly isn't the same TO that we're used to seeing, but with the status of Welker being uncertain, it couldn't hurt.

Give him a shot.

[bnorris85]

Does anyone really care if mankins holds out?

[Big_Matt34]

Welker isnt human.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal..._welker_r.html

According to our pals at Gresh and Zo on 98.5 The Sports Hub, Patriots WR Wes Welker "will be (a) full participant in Training Camp." He "still has to be officially cleared medically, but sources say that will happen."

[S2]

Wes Welker is back off the PUP list. He is not human.

[S2]

Julian Edelman is going to be a weapon. He's got the right mix of Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk and awesomeness inside of him.

[Snatch Catch]

Julian Edelman is going to be a weapon. He's got the right mix of Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Kevin Faulk and awesomeness inside of him.

I love guys like Edelman. The Hines Ward types that people pass on.

[JWHIII]

Ty warren out for the year, front seven looks thin

[RhodyYanksFan]

Pretty spot on article by Simmons regarding Brady.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/100813

The "You Betrayed Me, And By the Way I'm Starting To Truly Hate You, But I'm Not Saying Any Of This Because It Might Affect The Team; I'm Just Trusting That You'll Do The Right Thing, And If You Don't, I WILL Get My Revenge" Non-Holdout Holdout

I feel bad for Tom Brady, which means I feel bad for a handsome guy with two healthy kids, three Super Bowl rings, $100 million in the bank and a wealthy supermodel for a wife. Funny. He's finishing a six-year, $60 million deal ($26.5 million guaranteed) signed in 2005, one year after Peyton Manning's colossal seven-year, $99 million deal. At the time, we hailed Brady for leaving money on the table and needled Manning for selfishly grabbing as much cash as he could. And for the next five years, the franchise that spent enough to keep its core around its expensive franchise quarterback was ... wait a second ... Indianapolis???

Yup. The Colts consistently paid market value for their own players in a concerted effort to maintain continuity and do right by Manning, sometimes overpaying to protect that Colts DNA. (Of their big-ticket guys, only Edgerrin James was pushed out the door.) By contrast, the value-conscious Patriots lost too much of their DNA; guys like Adam Vinatieri, Deion Branch, Richard Seymour, Daniel Graham, Asante Samuel, Tully Banta-Cain and Willie McGinest were always deemed expendable. In some cases, they were. But how much winning DNA can you lose before you're not the same team anymore?

Branch's departure was a perfect example: A beloved locker room guy and Brady's favorite target, Branch wanted to be paid like a No. 1 receiver (which he wasn't) and not an elite possession receiver (which he was). His leverage: Without him, the Patriots were screwed heading into the 2006 season. The Patriots shrugged and dealt him for a future No. 1; Branch got paid by Seattle; and the Patriots lost the AFC title game because they didn't have a single receiver who could get open on the biggest third-and-4 of the game. They win that title with Branch. I will believe that until the day I die.

Now, imagine you're Brady.

You left money on the table that your team rarely used (only splurging in 2007). You watched them repeatedly roll over high picks so "next year" would be the windfall instead of just cashing them in during your prime. Now you're 33 years old with a surgically repaired knee. You're playing for a paltry $6.5 million during an uncapped season -- repeat: an uncapped season -- during the same year that rookie Sam Bradford just signed for $50 million guaranteed. You thought for sure the Patriots would renegotiate that deal when the time came, and they even promised as much -- the old, "We need to stretch the signing bonus out for cap purposes and add an extra year, but don't worry, when we get there, we'll rip it up" routine -- only they're now pretending to have amnesia. And by the way, you won three Super Bowls and helped sell out their stadium for nine solid years.

How do you feel right now? Well, you're one hit away from being damaged goods. You have an owner who pretends to be lavish (he's far from it) and evolved into one of the league's most powerful figures; with the collective bargaining agreement expiring, he's not screwing things up for other owners by ripping up your deal, giving you a mega-extension and having the players' union say, "See, you guys can't cry poverty, Kraft just gave Brady all that money!" No, he's going to keep doing what he's been doing for months -- pretend he wants to extend you, drag things along, then franchise your dumb ass for $12 million next spring. He's banking on the fact that you're Tom Brady, you're the leader of the team, you've already made more than enough money, you care about winning more than anything else, and you have that Nash-ian side that would never allow you to put yourself above the team. He's playing you, basically.

He knows you too well. You won't rock the boat. You will say and do all the right things. You will smile for the cameras, shrug off the contract stuff, refuse to take the bait from local media, then take out all your frustrations on the opponents. You will do this because you're the leader and that's what leaders do. But you also know Kraft has a stadium to fill and suites that run on 10-year leases. In 2002, this wasn't a problem: new stadium, defending champ, good economy. These are different times. And if you're holding out or demanding a trade? Gulp. Bob Kraft has a better chance of bringing back the USFL than selling out his stadium in the HD/SundayTicket/65-Inch TV Era without three-time Super Bowl champion Tom Brady.

So you bide your time. Say the right things. Smile at the right times. Deep down, you're seething. And you should be. You got screwed in 2005; you're getting screwed now. You will give this man one more good year. One. That's it. Unless he does the right thing, you're done. That means your Patriots tenure has a definitive expiration date. And maybe it should

[bnorris85]

Yeeesh this guy is an animal

[S2]

Leigh Bodden placed on IR, out for the year. That sucks.

[S2]

Peter King's latest article has some stuff from the Football Outsiders 2010 Almanac and he had this to say:

A few other interesting numbers from the 2010 Almanac, on sale at footballoutsiders.com, and beginning with a stat about a quarterback who, for some reason, so many people believe is declining, even after a 4,398-yard passing season:
1. Tom Brady faced the hardest schedule of pass defenses of any quarterback since 1993.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...05/mmqb/2.html