2010 International Free Agents

[Matsui55]

I happen to agree with you 100%, if Lin does not want to be in the organization, the Yankees will not push the issue (Nor should they). The financial issue (In his case, is not huge (Unlike Ynoa for example)).
The major issue deals with precedent. If Lin would take his dispute to the International Court Of Arbitration and win, it could unleash an ugly Pandora's Box of Court oversignt of Professional and even Amateur Sports. That is what Professional Sports Leagues, various Players Associations, and the NCAA are afraid of. This was a prime reason why there was a compromise in the Barrett Loux case. MLB did not want some Court deciding that MLB, the NCAA and the Draft itself was in effect committing "Restraint Of Trade". The grounds being he cannot sign with another team, nor can he go back to College. So they worked out an arraingement where everyone received something for their efforts.
Do I think he will? Of course not, that is self destructive, and would not be financially worth it. But as we saw with Curt Flood, all it takes is one person who simply believes in a cause, and does not care about personal loss, to change things forever (Even if in the end, they "Lost" in Court).

Major flaw here.

In Loux's case, that was about the draft, which a number of people have noted has had serious legal questions for years (which may have been a major reason no formal slotting system has ever been implemented). However, in the case of IFA's, there are no "restraint of trade" issues- they are true FA's able to "offer" their services to any team.

In other words, the "restraint of trade" argument would probably fail because he was free to offer services not only to MLB teams, but Taiwanese teams, or presumably, even colleges. It was the PLAYER that made the choice to sign with the Yanks, after going through the process of receiving contract offers.

Assuming that the guy signed a contract, having second thoughts based on money is really not a legitimate issue.

[Pokerface]

Heard OAK had Rougned Odor in DR academy this month. Could be a sleeper for VZ shortstop. CIN, TOR, possibly NYY involved

Ben Badler

[Posada_20]

Looks like Lin will not be a Yankee after all.
http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/

[Yankees1962]

Looks like Lin will not be a Yankee after all.
http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/

Those news reports they linked to are the original BA article and the Nomass interview with Newman in which he said the contract hasn't been finalized as of yet.

[Posada_20]

Those news reports they linked to are the original BA article and the Nomass interview with Newman in which he said the contract hasn't been finalized as of yet.

Look again at the blurb under 'Monday, August 30'. Thats a new development.

[Yankees1962]

Look again at the blurb under 'Monday, August 30'. Thats a new development.

I read the whole blurb, but he's making that assumption based on those two links. He might be right, but until I see something official, I'm not going to write him off quite yet.

[Melan-cynic]

Ridiculous.

[Gusto]

Looks like Lin will not be a Yankee after all.
http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/

But ... but ... but ... the Yankees had the stronger relationship with him

[Posada_20]

Could Yanks decision to pass on Chapman come back to bite them? Imagine Yanks-Reds WS. Chapman becomes the X factor the way Francisco Rodriguez was for the Angels in 2002.

"I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes"

[kongull]

But ... but ... but ... the Yankees had the stronger relationship with him

Yankees sure know how to f*ck up a good situation. They should take some notes from the Pirates. If it were the Yankees they would've offered Heredia $1mm in hopes of getting him cheap because of their relationship.

Ridiculous.

[awy]

exactly. good relations are used to go for the kill, not to try and save a few hundred k on underpriced prospects.

[Melan-cynic]

Oh Aroldis. What could have been..

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Yanks are just cheap/poorly allocate resources. It's really hard to comprehend and get over, but it's true.

[yankeelover]

Yanks are just cheap/poorly allocate resources. It's really hard to comprehend and get over, but it's true.

I don't agree. I realize some believe the Yankees need to out bid everyone for certain players but I, for one, am happy with the way things are going. They have the best record in baseball you know?

When you look at pitching depth in the minor leagues, two guys stand out, Manny Banuelos, who they signed as an international free agent and Dellin Betances, an over slot draft pick a few years ago.

After Manny and Dellin there are five or six guys who can be ranked based upon one's own prference: Andrew Brackman, Adam Warren, David Phelps, Graham Stoneburner, Jose Ramirez and Brent Marshall. All were draft picks except Ramirez. I believe the Yankees went over slot for most or all of the pitchers I mentioned that were drafted.

My point is the Yankees will pay when they need to. Chapman was a gamble. The gamble looks to be paying off for the Reds. Igawa was a gamble too. A gamble the Yankees definately lost. You have to pick and choose when and where you want to gamble. Javy, you said the Yankees should not go after Darvish because of the expected price I believe. I happen to agree with this sentiment. We over paid for Sabathia. We over paid for Burnett. We over paid for Petitte. The Red Sox over paid for Matsuzaka.

We just have to be smart about who we contract with. Sometimes we'll miss on talent. My point is - we are doing well regardless.

[awy]

think marginally. if they allocated resources to the most efficient sources, maybe they'd win more and at lower cost?

[Januz]

I don't agree. I realize some believe the Yankees need to out bid everyone for certain players but I, for one, am happy with the way things are going. They have the best record in baseball you know?

When you look at pitching depth in the minor leagues, two guys stand out, Manny Banuelos, who they signed as an international free agent and Dellin Betances, an over slot draft pick a few years ago.

After Manny and Dellin there are five or six guys who can be ranked based upon one's own prference: Andrew Brackman, Adam Warren, David Phelps, Graham Stoneburner, Jose Ramirez and Brent Marshall. All were draft picks except Ramirez. I believe the Yankees went over slot for most or all of the pitchers I mentioned that were drafted.

My point is the Yankees will pay when they need to. Chapman was a gamble. The gamble looks to be paying off for the Reds. Igawa was a gamble too. A gamble the Yankees definately lost. You have to pick and choose when and where you want to gamble. Javy, you said the Yankees should not go after Darvish because of the expected price I believe. I happen to agree with this sentiment. We over paid for Sabathia. We over paid for Burnett. We over paid for Petitte. The Red Sox over paid for Matsuzaka.

We just have to be smart about who we contract with. Sometimes we'll miss on talent. My point is - we are doing well regardless.

I certainly do not think the Yankees overpaid for Sabathia. He has 37 wins (And counting) in two years. Not to mention he was the 2009 AL LCS MVP, he helped them win the 2009 WS, and he may very well be the 2010 AL CY Young Award Winner. He has certainly accomplished what he came here to do (Bring back the title to The Bronx). On a broader historical tract, Sabathia (Like Mark Teixeira from the same FA Class), may very well end up in the top five non-prior Yankee or International Free Agents ever signed by this organization, since the institution of the draft. You start with Reggie Jackson, move on to Catfish Hunter & Goose Gossage, then you may find CC & Tex (And if the end up in Cooperstown they might pass Hunter and Gossage in the accomplishment department). ps. I am aware Winfield is in Cooperstown & Mussina may be, but since they did not win titles, if CC & Tex are one day enshrined in the Hall Of Fame, I would rate them higher, than those two.
One other pitcher who has be overlooked, and who might be quite good is Bryan Mitchell. ps. He may end up as the best of the kid pitchers.

[kongull]

I can't believe anyone would think we overpaid for CC

[parkerstrong]

I can't believe anyone would think we overpaid for CC

I can't believe anyone would think we underpaid CC. Of couse I would still sign him again but $23 million a year for 34 starts is alot of money. Who else came close to the contract we offered him? CC is one of the top 5-10 starters in baseball, but Pedro of 1999. He is overpaid.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

I can't believe anyone would think we underpaid CC. Of couse I would still sign him again but $23 million a year for 34 starts is alot of money. Who else came close to the contract we offered him? CC is one of the top 5-10 starters in baseball, but Pedro of 1999. He is overpaid.

If that is your metric, any FA pitcher is going to be overpaid.

[Jax Teller]

I can't believe anyone would think we underpaid CC. Of couse I would still sign him again but $23 million a year for 34 starts is alot of money. Who else came close to the contract we offered him? CC is one of the top 5-10 starters in baseball, but Pedro of 1999. He is overpaid.

I don't see anyone saying this.

[parkerstrong]

I don't see anyone saying this.

Do you think CC is worth 23 million a season? I quoted someone who said "I can't believe anyone would think we overpaid for CC". Either way, CC is not worth 23 million a season.

[parkerstrong]

If that is your metric, any FA pitcher is going to be overpaid.

Maybe I didnt use a good statement to back-up CC isnt worth 23 million, but that doesnt change the fact the CC is overpaid.

[Jax Teller]

Do you think CC is worth 23 million a season? I quoted someone who said "I can't believe anyone would think we overpaid for CC". Either way, CC is not worth 23 million a season.

I don't think any player is worth that much money. But if you had to give it to one, a stud...in his prime LH ace would be one you give it to.

I know what you quoted...to which you responded with:

I can't believe anyone would think we underpaid CC.

Nobody said that we underpaid for CC.

[awy]

Do you think CC is worth 23 million a season? I quoted someone who said "I can't believe anyone would think we overpaid for CC". Either way, CC is not worth 23 million a season.

what standard are you using here?

[Mr.Muhozi]

Oh Aroldis. What could have been..

Well they messed up on Aroldis, lets hope they don't on Yu

[kongull]

I can't believe anyone would think we underpaid CC. Of couse I would still sign him again but $23 million a year for 34 starts is alot of money. Who else came close to the contract we offered him? CC is one of the top 5-10 starters in baseball, but Pedro of 1999. He is overpaid.

brewers offered him $20mill/yr, i'd say that is pretty close. Where do you think fair value is?

[indianyanksfan]

We don't even know what the situation is w the Taiwanese guy yet

[indianyanksfan]

Didn't we sign another catcher? What's his scouting repot?

[teknetic]

My point is the Yankees will pay when they need to. Chapman was a gamble. The gamble looks to be paying off for the Reds. Igawa was a gamble too. A gamble the Yankees definately lost. You have to pick and choose when and where you want to gamble. Javy, you said the Yankees should not go after Darvish because of the expected price I believe. I happen to agree with this sentiment. We over paid for Sabathia. We over paid for Burnett. We over paid for Petitte. The Red Sox over paid for Matsuzaka.

We just have to be smart about who we contract with. Sometimes we'll miss on talent. My point is - we are doing well regardless.

Igawa wasn't a gamble, it was just an atrocious decision.

Who else came close to the contract we offered him?

That was the point of offering him the contract on day one: to detract any potential bidders.

CC is one of the top 5-10 starters in baseball, but Pedro of 1999. He is overpaid.

and if Pedro of 1999 was a FA in 2008, it would have been him getting a fat paycheck.

[Yankees1962]

Actually, I think in some ways, the Igawa debacle might have some direct influence on signing international talent such as Chapman beyond the instituted system of crosschecking such free agents before signing them. Some might call it being gun shy or at the very least, being too restricted by the value the Yankees place on such players without overextending that value.

[Matsui55]

Actually, I think in some ways, the Igawa debacle might have some direct influence on signing international talent such as Chapman beyond the instituted system of crosschecking such free agents before signing them. Some might call it being gun shy or at the very least, being too restricted by the value the Yankees place on such players without overextending that value.

I think there are two different issues here, but both relevant.

For Japanese players, they can easily be scouted and information is readily available on them. The issues generally concern their ability to adapt to American society (speaking English and the culture are different, though the lifestyle is similar) and the jump in level of competition.

For Cuban players, scouting is much harder to so, and when seen in international competition, projecting to level of competition is much harder. If they defect, there is little similar between Cuban and American life- which makes for a hard adjustment.

Still, talent trumps all. I think the Yanks might still be using a somewhat dated value on IFAs. Lets see what happens if/when Darvish gets posted.

[Yankees1962]

I think there are two different issues here, but both relevant.

For Japanese players, they can easily be scouted and information is readily available on them. The issues generally concern their ability to adapt to American society (speaking English and the culture are different, though the lifestyle is similar) and the jump in level of competition.

For Cuban players, scouting is much harder to so, and when seen in international competition, projecting to level of competition is much harder. If they defect, there is little similar between Cuban and American life- which makes for a hard adjustment.

Still, talent trumps all. I think the Yanks might still be using a somewhat dated value on IFAs. Lets see what happens if/when Darvish gets posted.

There is a reason why Billy Eppler and Damon Oppenheimer was scouting him two weeks ago. I'm sure they were looking at some other players too.

[mrbawm]

Are we so sure that anyone is overpaid? With regard to percent of revenues most of the players might actually be underpaid.

[awy]

of course, as long as teams make a profit on a player's work, that's underpayment by the definition of a competitive market. however, baseball is not a perfectly competitive market

this is not equal to the player's on-field production value, as calculated by fangraphs or whatever. it's the marginal revenue a team gains.

[Snatch Catch]

I agree that Chapman has looked great and so far has been fulfilling his end of the money he got, but I'm not ready to say that it's an overall success at this point.

Given the amount of money that he signed for, he has to produce much more on the ML level then what I would normally expect from a top prospect.

Again though, I absolutely agree/acknowledge that he appears well on his way to doing that at this point.

[bmxstreetrider86]

what he getting, 5 mil a year? even as a reliever he could be worth that easily

[Melan-cynic]

Bleh:

Jason (Muskegon): Have you seen Matias pitch? How will he translate when he pitches in the states?
Klaw: Have not but I keep hearing about big velocity and a chance for a plus curveball. Pretty interesting signing for St. Louis.