2010 Curtis Granderson Performance Thread

[Blazer]

So it doesn't matter if he posts a 120 OPS+ iat the end of the year; it's negated by the fact that he sucked for most of the year? Cool.

It makes a great deal of difference that you're #7 hitter can carry the team for 2+ months, much like Swish last year.

[Yankees13]

It makes a great deal of difference that you're #7 hitter can carry the team for 2+ months, much like Swish last year.

Good point. Granderson has helped the Yankees to survive the A-Rod/Pettitte injuries.

[ArodEra]

So it doesn't matter if he posts a 120 OPS+ iat the end of the year; it's negated by the fact that he sucked for most of the year? Cool.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

First, you're you're dealing in hypotheticals. He's yet to reach 120 OPS+ the entire season (a new number you're introducing). He just started to touch 113+ after a "torrid" two week stretch where it climbed from below average. Kudos to him for helping to carry the team in Arod's and Swisher's absence.

My point was that most of the disappointment being expressed in this thread, prior to his tear, has to do with the fact that he played a good portion of the season with a below-average OPS+ and struggled to barely reach average.

Of course if he climbs to a 120+ OPS and maintains it, he's salvaged his season for the most part. But, it doesn't negate the fact that he did poorly prior to the tear he's been on the past couple of weeks (other than a couple of other short-lived streaks) and that the complaints about his performance were and have been legit to this point.

Now if he stars the rest of the way and stars in the post season, who really cares about his crappy April-August? I sure wouldn't.

[MooseDaGun]

Of course if he climbs to a 120+ OPS and maintains it, he's salvaged his season for the most part. But, it doesn't negate the fact that he did poorly prior to the tear he's been on the past couple of weeks (other than a couple of other short-lived streaks) and that the complaints about his performance were and have been legit to this point.

It completely negates it, because the wins he cost the Yankees when he was cold are more than offset by the wins he's contributed towards when he heated up.

[Mr Coffee]

LoHud:

Since making those mechanical changes in Texas, Curtis Granderson is hitting .414 with three doubles and two home runs against lefties.

[ajra21]

wasn't a big fan of the granderson trade although i liked the idea of him being our centre-fielder. he's a good player. if the changes made to his swing maintain this kind of hitting then he'll be a far better player than jackson over the next two years. personally i wouldn't even consider picking up his 2013 option unless he's hitting 40 bombs a year with a .340 plus OBP and there is no one out there at all to repace him. for me his value comes in him playing centre-field and i doubt he does that in 2013.

[iiMax]

He's something sort of Grandish right now.

[JSG]

Games played from April to the end of August do count.

i guess they do, technically, but the company mission statement is to win the WS, not accumulate division titles.

hey, tex always starts slow also. frustrating, and who knows why. granderson was mired in deep or quasi suckitude for a long time. again, who knows why. trying to hard, the lure of the RF porch, bad mechanics, or combo platter ?? IMO he was serviceable enough to flirt with league average much of the time, and now has been raging for a month. how you finish in pretty much all cases is more important than how you start. i think the important thing going forward is to get the sense it's not just SSS and that he's really figured out some things for real (bow deeply in the direction of kevin long) that will make him into the player we thought/hoped we were getting.

[False1]

wasn't a big fan of the granderson trade although i liked the idea of him being our centre-fielder. he's a good player. if the changes made to his swing maintain this kind of hitting then he'll be a far better player than jackson over the next two years. personally i wouldn't even consider picking up his 2013 option unless he's hitting 40 bombs a year with a .340 plus OBP and there is no one out there at all to repace him. for me his value comes in him playing centre-field and i doubt he does that in 2013.

It is WAAAY too early to be commenting one way or the other on a 2013 option, that's a lot of time for Granderson to show that he is or isn't worth it, and a lot of time for us to consider other options... but let's say he's hitting 30 bombs with a .340 OBP, good CF (or LF in your scenario) defense and good baserunning... you don't like a 1/$11MM deal (after washing the $2MM buyout) for a player like that?

[teknetic]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

First, you're you're dealing in hypotheticals. He's yet to reach 120 OPS+ the entire season (a new number you're introducing). He just started to touch 113+ after a "torrid" two week stretch where it climbed from below average. Kudos to him for helping to carry the team in Arod's and Swisher's absence.

Of course it's a hypothetical situation, I didn't say otherwise

My point was that most of the disappointment being expressed in this thread, prior to his tear, has to do with the fact that he played a good portion of the season with a below-average OPS+ and struggled to barely reach average.

Cool. Except people were flat out calling him a scrub and even yearned for Melky.

Of course if he climbs to a 120+ OPS and maintains it, he's salvaged his season for the most part. But, it doesn't negate the fact that he did poorly prior to the tear he's been on the past couple of weeks (other than a couple of other short-lived streaks) and that the complaints about his performance were and have been legit to this point.

Now if he stars the rest of the way and stars in the post season, who really cares about his crappy April-August? I sure wouldn't.

It absolutely does negate it because of the loss of ARod, Jeter's continued sucktitude, and Cano's mini-slump. He's picked a perfect time to start mashing and it's coincided with this team playing its best ball in nearly two months.

[JSG]

Cool. Except people were flat out calling him a scrub and even yearned for Melky.

moment of silence please. these -- los lamentationes para el melquito, longing for leche -- were some of the best, most classic, most suitable-for-framing comments of the yr !!

[ThePinStripes]

strangely enough, his BATTING AVERAGE against lefties is almost identical to his batting average against righties (.246 vs .251). Obviously, there is a huge difference in slugging.

While we're at it, he's got a 110 OPS+ (vs 100 last year, although the OPS/OBP/BA numbers are almost identical to last last year's numbers).

[Hellsing]

While we're at it, he's got a 110 OPS+ (vs 100 last year, although the OPS/OBP/BA numbers are almost identical to last last year's numbers).

That's because across the board offense is down. An OPS+ of 100 in 2004 is probably an OPS+ of 120 this year.

No greenies = no energy.

[ThePinStripes]

That's because across the board offense is down. An OPS+ of 100 in 2004 is probably an OPS+ of 120 this year.

No greenies = no energy.

They actually make you focus more, but yeah, same difference.

[Melan-cynic]

They actually make you focus more, but yeah, same difference.

Actually they give you energy... they're amphetamines which are stimulants. Increased focus is a by-product of that energy.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Actually they give you energy... they're amphetamines which are stimulants. Increased focus is a by-product of that energy.

It would be really interesting to see a comparative analysis of games the past couple of years and say, 5 years ago, in situations where you would expect overtiredness -- days games after night games, after West coast travel, etc.

[yankee82093]

That's because across the board offense is down. An OPS+ of 100 in 2004 is probably an OPS+ of 120 this year.

No greenies = no energy.

Not to nitpick, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot less than that. Maybe like 105 or 108.

[parkerstrong]

Parkerstong, you and I have talked a lot before about Coke's HR/9. Again, it doesn't make sense to average his HR/9 figure from the past two seasons, because you would basically be averaging the effect of his HR/FB (his flyball rates are very similar), it makes sense to input a league average HR/FB because we don't have enough data concerning his HR/FB.

I already calculated his HR/9 with a league average HR/FB rate last year, and I got a rate of 1.21 (iirc) which is still very bad.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont think we should input league average HR/FB rate since he is above average pitcher. End of the day, he currently has allowed 11 HR in 131 IP.

[delv]

why guess? for the AL:

1990: .715 = 100
1991: .724 = 100
1992: .713 = 100
1993: .745 = 100
1994: .779 = 100
1995: .771 = 100
1996: .795 = 100
1997: .768 = 100
1998: .771 = 100
1999: .798 = 100
2000: .792 = 100
2001: .769 = 100
2002: .755 = 100
2003: .765 = 100
2004: .771 = 100
2005: .755 = 100
2006: .776 = 100
2007: .761 = 100
2008: .762 = 100
2009: .764 = 100
2010: .738 = 100

In the AL, a .771 OPS was worth a 100 OPS+ in 2004, and a 109 OPS+ in 2010.

[yankee82093]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont think we should input league average HR/FB rate since he is above average pitcher. End of the day, he currently has allowed 11 HR in 131 IP.

Fair enough. I'm pretty sure you and I have already stated all of our points.

[ArodEra]

Quick observation. Tonight I sat in the front row in the Batter's Eye and couldn't help but pay close attention to Granderson's play in CF. I won't even get into the error that he made; it happens to the best of them.

But unless you are at the game, the cameras and replays won't show (for the most part) Granderson's break on the ball off the bat.

The very first batter of the game, Roberts, hit a ball that was clearly going to be in front of Granderson. Only Granderson not only broke back, but initially froze on the ball off the bat. He then hustled in and played the ball on one hop - a ball that was most definitely catchable. If you're watching at home, by the time the cameras followed the flight of the ball, you see Granderson running in towards it, without seeing his wrong read, as if he played it correctly. This simply was not the case.

I wasn't the only one in that section who noticed this. There were more than a few "Oh, come on Grandy's!" (nothing mean) after the play. Three guys in back of me were even talking about his wrong break.

As I've said, I've been to many games and this is a nasty habit of his. Stats will show that as a clean base hit, which is why you can't fully rely on some data to tell you the full story. And yes, sometimes his speed compensates for his mistakes, other times it's credited as a hit.

The same thing happened on Wiggington's hit, a clean shot that Granderson or Willie Mays had no chance. But, the ball was clearly hit well in front of him - you knew it was a hit right off the bat, yet, once again, Granderson froze, then broke back with his initial step. Seconds tick away and are lost with these misjudgments.

Watching Gardner out there, you truly see a superb fielder, one that's superior to Granderson. There is no way in hell that Granderson should be manning the CF spot over Gardner.

[delv]

Quick observation. Tonight I sat in the front row in the Batter's Eye and couldn't help but pay close attention to Granderson's play in CF. I won't even get into the error that he made; it happens to the best of them.

But unless you are at the game, the cameras and replays won't show (for the most part) Granderson's break on the ball off the bat.

The very first batter of the game, Roberts, hit a ball that was clearly going to be in front of Granderson. Only Granderson not only broke back, but initially froze on the ball off the bat. He then hustled in and played the ball on one hop - a ball that was most definitely catchable. If you're watching at home, by the time the cameras followed the flight of the ball, you see Granderson running in towards it, without seeing his wrong read, as if he played it correctly. This simply was not the case.

I wasn't the only one in that section who noticed this. There were more than a few "Oh, come on Grandy's!" (nothing mean) after the play. Three guys in back of me were even talking about his wrong break.

As I've said, I've been to many games and this is a nasty habit of his. Stats will show that as a clean base hit, which is why you can't fully rely on some data to tell you the full story. And yes, sometimes his speed compensates for his mistakes, other times it's credited as a hit.

The same thing happened on Wiggington's hit, a clean shot that Granderson or Willie Mays had no chance. But, the ball was clearly hit well in front of him - you knew it was a hit right off the bat, yet, once again, Granderson froze, then broke back with his initial step. Seconds tick away and are lost with these misjudgments.

Watching Gardner out there, you truly see a superb fielder, one that's superior to Granderson. There is no way in hell that Granderson should be manning the CF spot over Gardner.

Nah, that play was gross even on tv, if you were paying attention. i mentioned it in the gameday thread. obviously, I agree with your conclusion

[mememe]

Gardner almost misplayed a ball in left. Turned the wrong way. Recovered with some good speed.

He also dropped a ball 2 days ago in center that cost AJ a run with an unnecessary dive.

Good fielder? Yes. Great? No?

[delv]

Gardner almost misplayed a ball in left. Turned the wrong way. Recovered with some good speed.

He also dropped a ball 2 days ago in center that cost AJ a run with an unnecessary dive.

Good fielder? Yes. Great? No?

yowza. who else even gets close to that ball? he was heading backwards at a 45 degree angle. i was in the RF bleachers for that play.

not sure what play ur referring to with ur first comment

[ThePinStripes]

why guess? for the AL:

1990: .715 = 100
1991: .724 = 100
1992: .713 = 100
1993: .745 = 100
1994: .779 = 100
1995: .771 = 100
1996: .795 = 100
1997: .768 = 100
1998: .771 = 100
1999: .798 = 100
2000: .792 = 100
2001: .769 = 100
2002: .755 = 100
2003: .765 = 100
2004: .771 = 100
2005: .755 = 100
2006: .776 = 100
2007: .761 = 100
2008: .762 = 100
2009: .764 = 100
2010: .738 = 100

In the AL, a .771 OPS was worth a 100 OPS+ in 2004, and a 109 OPS+ in 2010.

depending on park factors.

@ 1999, .798 = average.

[False1]

Gardner almost misplayed a ball in left. Turned the wrong way. Recovered with some good speed.

He also dropped a ball 2 days ago in center that cost AJ a run with an unnecessary dive.

Good fielder? Yes. Great? No?

Defensively, who are the players that can patrol center fielder more effectively than Gardner in your mind?

I think the commentary around here re: Granderson's defense is somewhat overblown, but from the beginning I have said that Gardner should have taken CF with Granderson sliding to LF. I don't think that was/is an unpopular view amongst Yankee fans. Would not be surprised at all to see that happen in '11.

[Yankee Tripper]

Defensively, who are the players that can patrol center fielder more effectively than Gardner in your mind?

I think the commentary around here re: Granderson's defense is somewhat overblown, but from the beginning I have said that Gardner should have taken CF with Granderson sliding to LF. I don't think that was/is an unpopular view amongst Yankee fans. Would not be surprised at all to see that happen in '11.

I don't know, to me Granderson has been very good in CF. He's posted UZR/150 of +13 or better 3 of the 4 prior seasons (including 2010) and has been postive 5 or better in all but 2008 which looks like an anomoly.

Maybe gardner would be better in CF but Gardner has clearly taken to LF just as much as he had CF in 2009. There is no guarantee granderson would take to LF as easily as Gardner has.

I'd be fine with them switching next year, but I'd also be fine with them staying were they are.

Of course they could trade one of them in the offseason and make this dicussion moot.

[False1]

I don't know, to me Granderson has been very good in CF. He's posted UZR/150 of +13 or better 3 of the 4 prior seasons (including 2010) and has been postive 5 or better in all but 2008 which looks like an anomoly.

Maybe gardner would be better in CF but Gardner has clearly taken to LF just as much as he had CF in 2009. There is no guarantee granderson would take to LF as easily as Gardner has.

I'd be fine with them switching next year, but I'd also be fine with them staying were they are.

Of course they could trade one of them in the offseason and make this dicussion moot.

I don't see it as a big deal either, I think Gardner has more range and his arm is adequate for CF. Like I've mentioned from time to time, I think people tend to overestimate Granderson's tendency to get a bad first step in terms of frequency and severity, and don't credit him for his wheels. I think Gardner might get to a few extra hits a year perhaps. Nothing to jump up and down about. And, like you, I think Granderson is better defensively than he gets credit for.

[THEBOSS84]

I am convinced that Gardner has one of the most accurate arms in the game.

[False1]

I am convinced that Gardner has one of the most accurate arms in the game.

Quick release, and solid accurate throws. Reflecting back on how much love Cabrera's arm used to get based simply on arm strength and without care for how long it took him to get rid of the ball or his inaccuracy (which seemed to get worse as he went along) it's surprising how little publicity we give to Gardner's or even Granderson's arm.

[delv]

Quick release, and solid accurate throws. Reflecting back on how much love Cabrera's arm used to get based simply on arm strength and without care for how long it took him to get rid of the ball or his inaccuracy (which seemed to get worse as he went along) it's surprising how little publicity we give to Gardner's or even Granderson's arm.

really nice, IMO

[ajra21]

why guess? for the AL:

1990: .715 = 100
1991: .724 = 100
1992: .713 = 100
1993: .745 = 100
1994: .779 = 100
1995: .771 = 100
1996: .795 = 100
1997: .768 = 100
1998: .771 = 100
1999: .798 = 100
2000: .792 = 100
2001: .769 = 100
2002: .755 = 100
2003: .765 = 100
2004: .771 = 100
2005: .755 = 100
2006: .776 = 100
2007: .761 = 100
2008: .762 = 100
2009: .764 = 100
2010: .738 = 100

In the AL, a .771 OPS was worth a 100 OPS+ in 2004, and a 109 OPS+ in 2010.

good insight. thanks.

[89FoxBody]

26 point drop off in one year is insane. And the 27 point drop between 96 and 97 as well.

[jobasfistpump62]

I've never seen a player foul off more check swings in my life.

[JSG]

personally, i'd like to see him cut down on the doubles and bunt more often.

[2JAY]

Just when you are about to give up on Granderson, he gets a couple of hits and you have hope. And then just when you hope that he has turned the corner and will start hitting, he goes back into a funk. A frustrating year to say the least.

[Young Steinbrenner]

wutttttttttttta CATCH !!

Curtis SAVES the game

[grizy]

Who's a bad CF again?

[yankee82093]

wow..

[MassNYYfan]

I admit it.

I was sitting here by computer all night waiting for him to make a catch.

[89FoxBody]

Got home just in time to see that, crazy.

[DRobertsonNYY]

[CanoForPresident]

I admit it.

I was sitting here by computer all night waiting for him to make a catch.

AJax would have caught that with his butt cheeks

.

[flymick24]

wtf who exactly is hating?

[Yankee Tripper]

Who's a bad ASS CF again?

now that's more like it!

Damn that was a heck of a catch

[yankee82093]

haters?

[sweet_lou_14]

That catch was simply amazing.

[dabomb2045]

I'm calling that the catch of the season. Holy crap. I mean the guy was all the way in left center when that ball was hit....I didnt think there was a chance he would get to that ball.

Totally layed out for it. Wow. If that gets by him, its a triple for sure and depending on the bounce of the ball...it had the possibility of being an inside the parker.

Unbelievable play by Granderson.

[JSG]

That catch was simply amazing.

yeah, when the ball was hit it didn't look like there was a real shot there. quick, perfectly timed, and nary a jiggle on the landing !! HUGE play.

[delv]

holy crap. i will now officially give up my gardner-to-cf campaign... until the next time he misreads a ball