2010 Curtis Granderson Performance Thread

[gold23]

Well, if you front-load his contract we still pay him the same amount! Always back-load a contract-maybe you can trade them away if he has declined or just put the money you would pay them in the bank and collect at least 1-2% interest on it before you pay him.

Front-loading a contract=stupid.

Not really, though. If you front load a contract, there is a much higher likelihood you get legitimate production for the value. The player is then either a) a bargain in later years or b) a much more valuable commodity if you want to get rid of him.

[parkerstrong]

Not really, though. If you front load a contract, there is a much higher likelihood you get legitimate production for the value. The player is then either a) a bargain in later years or b) a much more valuable commodity if you want to get rid of him.

wow....umm, no matter how they get their money they are still judged on their complete contract. If we sign Crawford to 5/80 and the contract is 40 million the first year and 10 million each year after, I dont think we say its a great signing because we only had 1 year he was overpaid!

Yankees can put the extra money in the bank and make more money (on interest) to spend by backloading the contract...or if the player isnt worth the contract, maybe trade them. You can always add money to trade someone (the same money you would have given the player if you front-loaded). Its simple mathematics and why 95% of contracts are back-loaded.

[awy]

you are assuming the total amount won't change with frontloading/backloading. players value getting their money faster. so frontloading may reduce hte overall contract size.

[parkerstrong]

you are assuming the total amount won't change with frontloading/backloading. players value getting their money faster. so frontloading may reduce hte overall contract size.

I can agree with you that I didn't factor that in. I havent heard of a case where someone was willing to take less money to take a front-loaded deal but that is potentially the only reason to do it.

[False1]

I can agree with you that I didn't factor that in. I havent heard of a case where someone was willing to take less money to take a front-loaded deal but that is potentially the only reason to do it.

There are also luxury tax implications... each year the luxury tax threshold goes up about $7MM... if they can keep payroll flat or at least growing slower than the increase in the threshold each year, that's money in the Yankees' pockets.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

There are also luxury tax implications... each year the luxury tax threshold goes up about $7MM... if they can keep payroll flat or at least growing slower than the increase in the threshold each year, that's money in the Yankees' pockets.

I think the lux tax is calculated on the AAV of their contracts, so it wouldn't matter

[parkerstrong]

There are also luxury tax implications... each year the luxury tax threshold goes up about $7MM... if they can keep payroll flat or at least growing slower than the increase in the threshold each year, that's money in the Yankees' pockets.

Luxury tax is based on the average per year, not each season. Otherwise you would overpay one year to get to the 25% of the luxury tax and then avoid the tax next season instead of paying 25%, 30% and then 40%.

Edit: Yankee fan in Boston is correct.

[False1]

Ahem. I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

[delv]

Actually he averages over 24 INF hits per year, though I don't know the league average (Cano is around 15(?), with his average speed).

just noticed this post. you can't compare Cano's INF hit rate w/ Crawford's, as infielders' play back on Cano, given his lack of speed and relative power.

Also, some of Crawford's INF hit rate may be affected by his inability to bunt effectively and his accordingly limited attempts.

[ArodEra]

If he's close to his career norms (Cashman was also quoted as saying he's peforming exactly to expectations, and that was before the mini HR "tear") then what's that tell us about him as a player and this trade? Can anyone honestly say, "I like what I've seen and I'd pay for more of this!"?

Is anyone (other than making excuses for him) excited about his performance thus far? The thought that he's close to his career norms is actually more depressing (and an eye-opener) than exciting because it tells us that this is what we are going to get from him and what we should expect. The fact that his numbers are supposedly close to his career norm doesn't suddenly make me stop to reconsider, "Hey, my mind was playing tricks on me. He really doesn't suck, he's reaching career norms!"

Cashman essentially traded for a platoon player, an unimpressive one at that, and you can bet your house that wasn't his intent.

By the way, where are the celebrants that hit and run? Can't even come in to "discuss" his performance in his very own performance thread unless he hits a homer, just to say na na nanana?

[Zimmers' Helmet]

If he's close to his career norms (Cashman was also quoted as saying he's peforming exactly to expectations, and that was before the mini HR "tear") then what's that tell us about him as a player and this trade? Can anyone honestly say, "I like what I've seen and I'd pay for more of this!"?

Is anyone (other than making excuses for him) excited about his performance thus far? The thought that he's close to his career norms is actually more depressing (and an eye-opener) than exciting because it tells us that this is what we are going to get from him and what we should expect. The fact that his numbers are supposedly close to his career norm doesn't suddenly make me stop to reconsider, "Hey, my mind was playing tricks on me. He really doesn't suck, he's reaching career norms!"

Cashman essentially traded for a platoon player, an unimpressive one at that, and you can bet your house that wasn't his intent.

By the way, where are the celebrants that hit and run? Can't even come in to "discuss" his performance in his very own performance thread unless he hits a homer, just to say na na nanana?

Only a fool would deny that Granderson has been a major disappointment.

Personally, I thought we were getting a player who could potentially hit 35-40 HR playing in Yankee Stadium and I'm sure that I'm not alone in that sentiment.

I don't care what Cashman says publicly, he has to be disappointed as well.

[SLURPEE]

Back to back bad years. Really good players don't have back to back down years. He's been trending downward for a few years now. Perhaps he's not as great as many made him out to be. Not a good trade as far as I'm concerned.

[grizy]

Granderson is just so good at baseball in every way except hitting LHPs people can't help but think he's a very good player.

Scouts and the Yankees FO are not exceptions.

[JL25and3]

There are also luxury tax implications... each year the luxury tax threshold goes up about $7MM... if they can keep payroll flat or at least growing slower than the increase in the threshold each year, that's money in the Yankees' pockets.

In addition to the corrections already noted, there is no luxury tax after 2011. Sure, they could negotiate it back into the CBA, but that won't be so easy, since in the last CBA they explicitly agreed that the luxury tax wouldn't continue. So it would probably take some concessions from the owners to get it back.

And in any case, we have no idea what it will look like.

[False1]

In addition to the corrections already noted, there is no luxury tax after 2011. Sure, they could negotiate it back into the CBA, but that won't be so easy, since in the last CBA they explicitly agreed that the luxury tax wouldn't continue. So it would probably take some concessions from the owners to get it back.

And in any case, we have no idea what it will look like.

LOL - as if I couldn't feel any dumber. Thanks

Will be interesting to see how MLB sucks money out of the Yankees after 2011.

[parkerstrong]

If he's close to his career norms (Cashman was also quoted as saying he's peforming exactly to expectations, and that was before the mini HR "tear") then what's that tell us about him as a player and this trade? Can anyone honestly say, "I like what I've seen and I'd pay for more of this!"?

Is anyone (other than making excuses for him) excited about his performance thus far? The thought that he's close to his career norms is actually more depressing (and an eye-opener) than exciting because it tells us that this is what we are going to get from him and what we should expect. The fact that his numbers are supposedly close to his career norm doesn't suddenly make me stop to reconsider, "Hey, my mind was playing tricks on me. He really doesn't suck, he's reaching career norms!"

Cashman essentially traded for a platoon player, an unimpressive one at that, and you can bet your house that wasn't his intent.

By the way, where are the celebrants that hit and run? Can't even come in to "discuss" his performance in his very own performance thread unless he hits a homer, just to say na na nanana?

I've been saying it from the beginning-it was a bad trade. Tigers got rid of him because he isnt worth 25mil over 3 seasons, nevermind giving up prospects to pay him that.

[gold23]

wow....umm, no matter how they get their money they are still judged on their complete contract. If we sign Crawford to 5/80 and the contract is 40 million the first year and 10 million each year after, I dont think we say its a great signing because we only had 1 year he was overpaid!

Yankees can put the extra money in the bank and make more money (on interest) to spend by backloading the contract...or if the player isnt worth the contract, maybe trade them. You can always add money to trade someone (the same money you would have given the player if you front-loaded). Its simple mathematics and why 95% of contracts are back-loaded.

Not really the reasons. Most contracts have been backloaded for the simple reason that a dollar in five years is almost always worth less than a dollar today. Inflation in both the world and within baseball. Additionally, flexibility in the immediate terms.

And my point was that by front loading a contract you would likely get much more value out of a player in that his production would likely equal his value much more closely in the early years and in the latter years you would have significantly more value in the player himself at a lower contract. Saying you will add $ is short-sighted, because that takes many different moves out of play (waivers, approval on $ from commissioners office, etc).

[SLURPEE]

Did I say how much I dislike Granderson? Ugh...

[parkerstrong]

Not really the reasons. Most contracts have been backloaded for the simple reason that a dollar in five years is almost always worth less than a dollar today. Inflation in both the world and within baseball. Additionally, flexibility in the immediate terms.

And my point was that by front loading a contract you would likely get much more value out of a player in that his production would likely equal his value much more closely in the early years and in the latter years you would have significantly more value in the player himself at a lower contract. Saying you will add $ is short-sighted, because that takes many different moves out of play (waivers, approval on $ from commissioners office, etc).

Well backloading a contract because the dollar is worth less is true.....and also putting the extra salary in a bank and collecting interest gives the team more money. Thats 2 reasons why it is more prudent to backload a contract.

If we sign Crawford to 5/80 and pay him 20,20,15,10,10 in the contract and we decide to try and trade him after 3 years, he is 2/20. A contract that is easier to move. However, if we give him a contract of 16,17,18,19,20 after 3 years he has 2/39 left but the Yankees have an extra 19 million dollars in the bank collecting interest (for years) instead of going to Crawford. If the Yankees were to trade Crawford with 2 years left, they could add that 19 million to Crawford to put his contract at 2/20, or could trade him and include less than 19 million. Teams won't trade for Crawford and give us 3 million in the deal, but could trade for Crawford and ask for only 16 million on the 2/39 contract (leaving him at 2/23-saving us 3 million because we backloaded).

Back-loading every contract is the best way to do business.

That was just an explaination in back-loading against front-loading-either way I dont want Crawford.

[JSG]

come on curtis, big game today. he has nice numbers vs marcum, 2 / 4 + HR. hey, it's SSS but it's something.

[ChrisNY]

just noticed this post. you can't compare Cano's INF hit rate w/ Crawford's, as infielders' play back on Cano, given his lack of speed and relative power.

Also, some of Crawford's INF hit rate may be affected by his inability to bunt effectively and his accordingly limited attempts.

Yeah I was just too lazy to look up the league average. Still I think 24.125 is a large number, and probably boosts his average a bit.

[JSG]

well, a soft hit and some nice D undermined by two very ugly Ks. let's hope he starts to revive vs boston.

[grizy]

I think the real reason backloading a contract is popular is it's the only way for some teams to afford big contracts.

Then those backloaded contracts in turn lead to more backloaded contracts.

In Marlins' case though, they are planning to trade their players before they get expensive.

[awy]

well yea, front loaded contracts cost more to the teams.

[grizy]

well yea, front loaded contracts cost more to the teams.

Not necessarily. You can juat as easily do deferred payments if you're worried about time value of money.

[NYYRules#1]

This thread will be a disaster.

Did you ever predict this one well.

[kan_t]

AL CF OPS+

East:
Graderson 100
B.J. Upton 92
Cameron 92
Wells 130
Adam Jones 100

Central:
Rios 121
Span 91
AJ 108
Crowe 86
Maier 102

West:
Borbon 74
Rajai Davis 93
Torii Hunter 131
Franklin Gutierrez 89

1) Granderson is ranked #6 among 14 CF in AL (AJ at #4).
2) Hunter has the highest OPS+.
3) Imagine if the Rangers get an upgrade in CF.....

[ppa79]

Granderson is terrible

[PirateChief]

you're gonna blame him for that? really?

[murpjf88]

I've been away for about a week and nothings changed. Your still an absolute piece of garbage.

[AnA-bombforA-rod]

I really hope this guy is off the team next year.

[Yankees13]

Hit a rocket right at someone. His overall performance has been very disappointing, but I can't blame him for that one. Just typical of the luck we seem to be having lately.

[ppa79]

you're gonna blame him for that? really?

I'm blaming him for being a bad player this year.

[ArodEra]

Raise your hand if you were one of those who thought or said he'd hit 35-40 (some even predicted more) homers this season because of the short porch in RF at Yankee Stadium. Don't be ashamed to admit it, you weren't alone.

And did he always freeze or take a first step back on balls hit in front of him throughout his career? There aren't any stats for first steps, bad reads or routes to the ball, especially when speed compensates for mistakes, otherwise it would show that he's a shaky defender too.

[murpjf88]

Baseball is inexplicable...

[awy]

Not necessarily. You can juat as easily do deferred payments if you're worried about time value of money.

well see, deferred payments would not be front loading the contract in my book.

[SLURPEE]

He sucks.

[dabomb2045]

Trade him....shift Gardner to CF....sign Crawford

[ArodEra]

Trade him....shift Gardner to CF....sign Crawford

At the rate he's going, I'd settle for Cindy Crawford over him in CF.

[AnA-bombforA-rod]

The Grandyman can't.

[SLURPEE]

I hear some people chalking it up to an "off year". Didn't have one of those last year?

[ICEBERG18]

He may get a big hit here and there but I'm not a fan.

[JSG]

Trade him....shift Gardner to CF....sign Crawford

hello 2011.

[nhyankeefan]

I'm usually very slow to jump off someone's bandwagon, but it's time to start benching Curtis and letting other people play.

[SLURPEE]

Glad I was never on his bandwagon....


BRING BACK AJAX!

[2JAY]

Granderson has been disappointing to say the least and it doesn't seem as if he will ever get his bat going for the 2010 season.

[ICEBERG18]

Horrible trade all around, including his contract.

[JSG]

Granderson has been disappointing to say the least and it doesn't seem as if he will ever get his bat going for the 2010 season.

flashes of solid play and big hits followed by extended periods of deep suckitude. the early optimism that kevin long could fix the holes in his swing is dwindling and starting to feel like a pipe dream. can this be so ?? what happened to the 35 HRs w the short porch in right ??!!

[dabomb2045]

hello 2011.

Well....yeah. Its what should happen though. Crawford, Lee and Montero should be the three big additions to this team for 2011.

[YESSIR!]

Horrible trade all around, including his contract.

It's beginning to look that way. Granderson makes $5.1M > than AJax this season while Jackson has been 3/5 of a run more valuable. Curtis has played better defense than I thought he would, but he needs to get his damn bat going.