2010 Curtis Granderson Performance Thread

[Yankee Tripper]

Swish' performance level was 4th outfielder last year.

If by 4th outfielder, you mean 4th best RF in the american league last year, I could see that though after Nelson Cruz I'm having a tough time coming up with the other 2. Maybe JD Drew as one? was he reasonably healthy last year?

But his work ethic has translated into significantly heightened performance from last year to this.

He's always had a good work ethic.

I never questioned the fact he got all the mileage his talent level had to deliver, and then some. If you put Swish' work ethic into Granderson's talent level, perhaps Curtis could justify the trade.

Granderson has one of the best work ethics in the game so wtf is your point?

I sure hope you are right and he lights up the league the second half. I would rather be wrong about him and have the Yankees go all the way, than be right about him from day one and have the Yankees come up short by the measure of what they disposed of this past off season.

Lights up? not sure I ever said that but I do expect an OPS+ somewhere in the 115 - 125 range for the 2nd half.

[Matsui-San]

Swish' performance level was 4th outfielder last year.

What team would put a 129 OPS+ on the bench?

[teknetic]

What team would put a 129 OPS+ on the bench?

The team he'd be running, it'd be a terrible one.

[DRobertsonNYY]

Swish' performance level was 4th outfielder last year.

Even Michael Dourbuck wouldn't say this.

[ThePinStripes]

What team would put a 129 OPS+ on the bench?

[False1]

Even Michael Dourbuck wouldn't say this.

Putting the slow in slocum

[bmxstreetrider86]

Putting the slow in slocum

Epic win

[JSG]

another nice game from curtis. RBI single. 3 hits the game before. AND he's crushed a bunch of outs, incl vs LHP, not flailing away helplessly. tex has turned it around. hopefully curtis can do the same. "showing signs".

[False1]

Agreed. I'm confident we'll see a much Grander second half. /channeling sterling

[SLURPEE]

He is just not that good. Decent player. But again Austin Jackson could be that too. For for less money and younger...

[JSG]

He is just not that good. Decent player. But again Austin Jackson could be that too. For for less money and younger...

let's see how he does second half. doubtful that ajax will have granderson's power. i think he can be an impact player. we shall see.

[murpjf88]

let's see how he does second half. doubtful that ajax will have granderson's power. i think he can be an impact player. we shall see.

I'm still waiting for Granderson to have Granderson's power.

[parkerstrong]

Just when Granderson starts hitting, we get the all-star break. Hope he can continue hitting after the break

[grizy]

Curtis Granderson is now almost perfectly aligned with his career stats vs. LHP.

He's .39 lower on the BA... and almost all of that can be attributed to a below career average BABIP.

As for power and HRs, with his career rates, he should have hit 1.99 vs LHP and 5.88 vs. RHP.

He actually hit 1 vs. LHP and 6 vs. RHP.

My point is Granderson really is batting essentially to his career averages. His overall stats will rise as his BABIP vs. RHP normalizes somewhat and as Girardi benches him more vs. LHP.

[Huktonfonix]

Swish' performance level was 4th outfielder last year. But his work ethic has translated into significantly heightened performance from last year to this. I never questioned the fact he got all the mileage his talent level had to deliver, and then some. If you put Swish' work ethic into Granderson's talent level, perhaps Curtis could justify the trade.

I sure hope you are right and he lights up the league the second half. I would rather be wrong about him and have the Yankees go all the way, than be right about him from day one and have the Yankees come up short by the measure of what they disposed of this past off season.

Do you determine a player's work ethic based on their skin color? It sure seems like that's what is going on here.

[Yankees13]

Do you determine a player's work ethic based on their skin color? It sure seems like that's what is going on here.

Definitely seems that way. If anything, Granderson strikes me as someone who would have more of a work ethic than Swisher. Granderson has had a nightmarish year, but there's no reason to believe he doesn't work hard. He was considered Detroit's Derek Jeter in terms of his personality and his status as an ambassador for the game.

[grizy]

By all accounts Granderson and Swisher both work incredibly hard.

[Yankees13]

By all accounts Granderson and Swisher both work incredibly hard.

I'm sure they do. I wasn't trying to knock Swisher. My point was that if you're going to use baseless speculation to determine a player's work ethic, the cerebral, even-keeled player would seem more likely than the party animal to be the hard worker. Which makes you wonder about the poster's motives.

[THEBOSS84]

I'm sure they do. I wasn't trying to knock Swisher. My point was that if you're going to use baseless speculation to determine a player's work ethic, the cerebral, even-keeled player would seem more likely than the party animal to be the hard worker. Which makes you wonder about the poster's motives.

I totally agree with this post. I'd love to know where Slocum gets his info from.

[False1]

I totally agree with this post. I'd love to know where Slocum gets his info from.

The voices tell him.

[Yankee Tripper]

I'm sure they do. I wasn't trying to knock Swisher. My point was that if you're going to use baseless speculation to determine a player's work ethic, the cerebral, even-keeled player would seem more likely than the party animal to be the hard worker. Which makes you wonder about the poster's motives.

Except for the fact that Slocum's posts are pretty much nonsense on everyone you might have a point. That is to say Alan misses the mark whether the player in question is white, black, latino, asian, native american or other. I don't think any racism should be read into his post.

[THEBOSS84]

Except for the fact that Slocum's posts are pretty much nonsense on everyone you might have a point. That is to say Alan misses the mark whether the player in question is white, black, latino, asian, native american or other. I don't think any racism should be read into his post.

It's amazing, isn't it?

[Yankee Tripper]

It's amazing, isn't it?

At least he's consistent, I'll give him that.

[JSG]

I'm still waiting for Granderson to have Granderson's power.

hey, we'll see. he's shown some signs, and has not been terrible, tho certainly underwhelming. i am optimistic for a turnaround and much better second half.

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b4TkA

(TYPO)

[justtxyank]

I don't remember, was it Slocum or Nome that insisted Shelly Duncan was better than Swisher?

[BobbytheMurcer]

It's pretty easy to say, give it time, The real Granderson hasn't shown up yet...he'll have a better second half....

I mean it has to be better than the first...

[teknetic]

I don't remember, was it Slocum or Nome that insisted Shelly Duncan was better than Swisher?

Nome.

[False1]

Nome.

Probably typed it while gazing into the eyes of his Andy Phillips Fathead.

[JSG]

Probably typed it while gazing into the eyes of his Andy Phillips Fathead.

........... who, BTW, is better than teixeira .........

some good ones, thanks !!

[Huktonfonix]

Ask Nome about Adam Dunn and Drew Henson.

[grizy]

I really find it pretty crazy that Yankees fans, like Tigers fans used to, keep thinking Granderson is a better player than he's playing even as bats almost identically to his career numbers (except against righties and the gap can be explained by BABIP.)

[JSG]

I really find it pretty crazy that Yankees fans, like Tigers fans used to, keep thinking Granderson is a better player than he's playing even as bats almost identically to his career numbers (except against righties and the gap can be explained by BABIP.)

1/ he has the tools to be much better, he should be borderline all star worst case.

2/ the myth of kevin long. AND

3/ he's significantly down from career norms in BA, OBP, SLG, and is over a 100 points off in OPS. so my guess is there is a bunch of upside here.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...randcu01.shtml

[Dexter Morgan]

Gotta give Granderson props for the lead of single in the 9th, but boy has he been bad....

[Michael Dorbuck]

Gotta give Granderson props for the lead of single in the 9th, but boy has he been bad....

His overall numbers are quite bad but at least he has gotten some some key hits and home runs this season. Like tonight he gets the single to lead off the ninth. And he had a key at bat in that ninth inning comeback against the Dodgers a few weeks ago. And he won two games for the Yankees with extra inning home runs.

[grizy]

3/ he's significantly down from career norms in BA, OBP, SLG, and is over a 100 points off in OPS. so my guess is there is a bunch of upside here.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...randcu01.shtml

I feel like I am beating a dead horse but if you break his splits down he's almost at exactly career averages with most of the drop in production coming from low BABIP vs. RHP.

Even with HRs, he's short only 1HR if you use his career PA/HR rates for L and R splits.

Yes, it's absolutely true he's running pretty bad in BABIP (vs. RHP mostly) so I do expect some rebound. His career BABIP vs. RHP is ~.335 and this year he's at .286. That would translates to about .100 in OPS vs. RHPs if he goes .335 for rest of the year batting as well as he is (and has been his entire career) now.

How much of that .100 will translate to overall OPS will depend on how many PAs vs. LHP he gets rest of the season.

To do substantially better, Curtis Granderson will need to be really lucky or Kevin Long needs to work some magic.

[False1]

Man, he's really struggling... but great to see him get a hit of lefty Choate that led to the game winning run.

[murpjf88]

Man, he's really struggling... but great to see him get a hit of lefty Choate that led to the game winning run.

He's hit safely in five straight games and six of his last eight. He's on fire.

Edit: Do you actually watch the games.

[False1]

He's hit safely in five straight games and six of his last eight. He's on fire.

Unreal dude. Now you're going to turncoat to argue with me in support of Granderson? I'm talking a little more broadly than his last 5 games.

So - do you think the last five games will translate into a strong 2nd half, or were you just trolling?

Just caught your edit... yeah, I watch the vast majority of the games, including today's game. I follow this team and the organization pretty closely. You might try that, then you wouldn't think things like "Javy Vazquez for DH is a crazy idea"

[murpjf88]

Unreal dude. Now you're going to turncoat to argue with me in support of Granderson? I'm talking a little more broadly than his last 5 games.

So - do you think the last five games will translate into a strong 2nd half, or were you just trolling?

Just caught your edit... yeah, I watch the vast majority of the games, including today's game. I follow this team and the organization pretty closely. You might try that, then you wouldn't think things like "Javy Vazquez for DH is a crazy idea"

I support all players in pinstripes. I just don't hide behind a rock when a player struggles and deny it. Whether it will translate into a strong second half, we shall see. We can always hold out hope can't we.Apparently not close enough. Its actually "Jorge Vazquez" and I doubt you will be seeing him before September, if at all.

[False1]

I support all players in pinstripes. I just don't hide behind a rock when a player struggles and deny it. Whether it will translate into a strong second half, we shall see. We can always hold out hope can't we.Apparently not close enough. Its actually "Jorge Vazquez" and I doubt you will be seeing him before September, if at all.

Unless their name is Matsui or Jackson I guess. And I know it's Jorge Vazquez, I was spoofing your response when I said "Vazquez" was a candidate for some 2nd half DH AB's and you thought I was referring to Javy.

[parkerstrong]

He's hit safely in five straight games and six of his last eight. He's on fire.

Edit: Do you actually watch the games.

Didnt realize going 1-4 is considered on fire. He is 5-16 in his last 4 games! Watch out world!

Granderson hits Choate well-not sure if Madden realized it. Before his hit in the 9th inning, he was 3-4 against him. Choate is one of the few lefties he sees well.

[parkerstrong]

I feel like I am beating a dead horse but if you break his splits down he's almost at exactly career averages with most of the drop in production coming from low BABIP vs. RHP.

Even with HRs, he's short only 1HR if you use his career PA/HR rates for L and R splits.

Yes, it's absolutely true he's running pretty bad in BABIP (vs. RHP mostly) so I do expect some rebound. His career BABIP vs. RHP is ~.335 and this year he's at .286. That would translates to about .100 in OPS vs. RHPs if he goes .335 for rest of the year batting as well as he is (and has been his entire career) now.

How much of that .100 will translate to overall OPS will depend on how many PAs vs. LHP he gets rest of the season.

To do substantially better, Curtis Granderson will need to be really lucky or Kevin Long needs to work some magic.

I completely agree-some people don't want to face facts. I have said from the beginning the trade was a bad one and that Granderson is a platoon player. I hope Granderson can magically be a better player but I doubt it.

[JSG]

I feel like I am beating a dead horse but if you break his splits down he's almost at exactly career averages with most of the drop in production coming from low BABIP vs. RHP.

well, that must be some bad-ass BABIP, as his aggregate numbers accross the board are uniformly worse than any season other than his rookie season in 04, and his OPS is down just over 100 points. he's obviously worse vs LHP, but obviously the NYY thought long could fix him. maybe it is unrealistic to expect immediate results, but i just don't see this guy as a platoon player. he's shown some flashes vs LHP, including some big hits, especially since his return off the DL. so i guess i'm smokin' the weed a little while longer.

[grizy]

As explained earlier, the bulk of his drop in production is because we're making him face lefties more than he ever has in his career.

Vs. RHP he's career .335BABIP hitter. Which is very high, but not that extraordinary given his speed. He's batting .283 vs. RHP instead and that more than explains the roughly 70 points missing vs. RHP compared to career averages.

But even if you normalize that, with the amount of PAs he's seeing vs. LHP, his OPS overall would only go up by 40~75 points, getting him to about .754~.790OPS, good for an OPS+ probably somewhere between 100 and 110, depending on where he gets his hits.

Long may be able to fix him long term, but results just aren't there either on paper or in game, at least yet.

[parkerstrong]

well, that must be some bad-ass BABIP, as his aggregate numbers accross the board are uniformly worse than any season other than his rookie season in 04, and his OPS is down just over 100 points. he's obviously worse vs LHP, but obviously the NYY thought long could fix him. maybe it is unrealistic to expect immediate results, but i just don't see this guy as a platoon player. he's shown some flashes vs LHP, including some big hits, especially since his return off the DL. so i guess i'm smokin' the weed a little while longer.

2010-OPS vs LHP .554
2009-OPS vs LHP .484
2008-OPS vs LHP .739
2007-OPS vs LHP .494
2007-2009-OPS vs LHP .570

Which year looks like it is a fluke?

He may have gotten some hits, but has still looked completely lost against some lefties. 4 XBH in 88 AB against lefties this season and BA of .216. He is a platoon player.

[nnysiny]

terrible, unnecessary trade

[grizy]

terrible, unnecessary trade

I actually disagree with this.

Even as a super platoon player with + (maybe even ++) defense in CF, Granderson is a very good piece for the Yankees.

[hardrain]

Curtis is just such a great person -- he HAS to succeed. I'll always root for him.

[JSG]

Which year looks like it is a fluke?

... hey, where are all the paul o'neill couldn't hit lefties before he came to the yankees posts .... ????!!!!! ..........

clearly, historically he sucks vs LHP w the one respectable blip on the radar. but obviously they saw something they could work with, or thought they could. i'm sure he was not brought here to be a platoon player. and again, he's looked better vs LHP lately (and when he looked really terrible, he looked terrible vs EVERYONE). so pls pass the bong, i'm not ready to write him off yet.

[Michael Dorbuck]

... hey, where are all the paul o'neill couldn't hit lefties before he came to the yankees posts .... ????!!!!! ..........

clearly, historically he sucks vs LHP w the one respectable blip on the radar. but obviously they saw something they could work with, or thought they could. i'm sure he was not brought here to be a platoon player. and again, he's looked better vs LHP lately (and when he looked really terrible, he looked terrible vs EVERYONE). so pls pass the bong, i'm not ready to write him off yet.

It's weird last night. He looked so awful against the righties and then he gets a hit off the lefty. Go figure. I think everybody expected that Granderson would struggle against lefties so that can't be a surprise to anybody. But I think that people expected him to be more productive against righties than he has shown this season. All we can do I guess is hope he will improve his numbers during the second half. He is on the team and whether it is a trade the Yankees should have made has been debated over and over so we just have to hope for the best at this point.