2009-2010 NBA Thread

[kan_t]

I don't know what else to tell you other than you are about as wrong as a person can be about anything when you say that.

Maybe, I watched about 20 Magic games this season and that's my observation. I just said what I saw. If you disagree about that, I'm totally fine.

[Snatch Catch]

Maybe, I watched about 20 Magic games this season and that's my observation. I just said what I saw. If you disagree about that, I'm totally fine.

Did you watch the 1st round of the playoffs?

[kan_t]

Did you watch the 1st round of the playoffs?

I have watched Game 1 and 3.

[dabomb2045]

I think if the Cavs lose Game 6......James is 100% gone. Its amazing to see the Cleveland fans and media turning on him already---I dont think that will help their case to convince him to stay.

Simple fact is, the Cavs FO has still yet to provide James with enough surrounding talent to give him a championship team. For example, the Lakers went out and got Gasol and Artest. The Celtics got several quality players in the same year. LeBron right now is at the same stage that Jordan was in 1988-1990 before Pippen really emerged as another superstar player--trying to win on his own and carrying substandard talent. Jamison and Williams are "nice" players. But where's the player that steps up when James has a below average game? They dont have anyone capable of doing it. Look at LA--when Kobe has an off night, you see Gasol step up and become assertive...you see Bynum have a big night and you see Artest wake up and start knocking down shots. Cleveland doesnt have this.

Im sorry but James has to be frustrated to just run into teams that are more well-rounded then this. Orlando and Boston are better TEAMS. LA is better. I'd even say Phoenix is better. What it comes down to is that unless James just dominates...the Cavs cannot beat those teams in a 7 game series---and even domination might be enough cuz James DID do this vs Orlando last year and still lost in 6 games. Its a one-man show in Cleveland....and the Cavs just fail to give James that second star/superstar player.

If I'm LeBron....I'm moving on and going to a team that can afford me and another bigtime scorer that can take some of the burden off my shoulders. I have no faith in the Cavs FO to make the necessary moves to find me that player.

[montrealer]

I think if the Cavs lose Game 6......James is 100% gone. Its amazing to see the Cleveland fans and media turning on him already---I dont think that will help their case to convince him to stay.

Simple fact is, the Cavs FO has still yet to provide James with enough surrounding talent to give him a championship team. For example, the Lakers went out and got Gasol and Artest. The Celtics got several quality players in the same year. LeBron right now is at the same stage that Jordan was in 1988-1990 before Pippen really emerged as another superstar player--trying to win on his own and carrying substandard talent. Jamison and Williams are "nice" players. But where's the player that steps up when James has a below average game? They dont have anyone capable of doing it. Look at LA--when Kobe has an off night, you see Gasol step up and become assertive...you see Bynum have a big night and you see Artest wake up and start knocking down shots. Cleveland doesnt have this.

Im sorry but James has to be frustrated to just run into teams that are more well-rounded then this. Orlando and Boston are better TEAMS. LA is better. I'd even say Phoenix is better. What it comes down to is that unless James just dominates...the Cavs cannot beat those teams in a 7 game series---and even domination might be enough cuz James DID do this vs Orlando last year and still lost in 6 games. Its a one-man show in Cleveland....and the Cavs just fail to give James that second star/superstar player.

If I'm LeBron....I'm moving on and going to a team that can afford me and another bigtime scorer that can take some of the burden off my shoulders. I have no faith in the Cavs FO to make the necessary moves to find me that player.

That being said I`ve read that he`s a sure bet to come to NY (well by what I`ve read here).............just curious what the Knicks have to offer that other teams won`t offer him.

[Hellsing]

That being said I`ve read that he`s a sure bet to come to NY (well by what I`ve read here).............just curious what the Knicks have to offer that other teams won`t offer him.

Bright Lights. Big City.

No offense to Toronto.

[YanksFan1992]

Bright Lights. Big City.

No offense to Toronto.

Most importantly, the capacity to bring an additional star at the same time.

[montrealer]

Most importantly, the capacity to bring an additional star at the same time.

What have they done lately to ensure this will happen...................I don`t follow the NBA anymore.....I guess since the mid-nineties. I was a huge 76`ers fan back in the Doctor`s era but I do follow the Suns for obvious reasons and I `ve been watching this year. It was nice to see the Suns finally get past SA.

[YanksFan1992]

What have they done lately to ensure this will happen...................I don`t follow the NBA anymore.....I guess since the mid-nineties. I was a huge 76`ers fan back in the Doctor`s era but I do follow the Suns for obvious reasons and I `ve been watching this year. It was nice to see the Suns finally get past SA.

To make it brief...

-Former GM Isiah Thomas ran this team into the ground (so much so that they probably reached China on the other side)

-They brought in a new GM (Walsh) and coach (D'Antoni) who, in order to make sure this team had cap space, made a bunch of trades that weakened this year's team, but freed up cap space for next year. The only player who they were unable to trade was Eddy Curry.

-Because of the great moves they made to free up the books, the Knicks now have enough cap space to sign two free agents to maximum contracts. Meaning, that not only can they offer the ability to play in New York, but the idea is that LeBron would be signed in addition to another max free agent (such as Bosh, Joe Johnson, or in a dream scenario, Wade).

[dabomb2045]

What have they done lately to ensure this will happen...................I don`t follow the NBA anymore.....I guess since the mid-nineties. I was a huge 76`ers fan back in the Doctor`s era but I do follow the Suns for obvious reasons and I `ve been watching this year. It was nice to see the Suns finally get past SA.

The Knicks have created enough cap space to sign James and another top free agent--Chris Bosh for example. A second star player is something James doesnt have in Cleveland...and its something the Cavs FO has yet to prove it can add to the team over the past several years. Signing James and Bosh in addition to a few talented players on the team now (Gallinari, Douglas etc.) plus whatever other minor moves that might be made....instantly turns the Knicks into a championship contender.

[montrealer]

Thanks................so.........is Mr. Canada going to make it to the finals?

[b_joseph]

No


Everyone has forgotten than Jamison averages 19 ppg for his career. I mena every single year whenever Cleveland lose ( or in this case, might lose ), its because he doesnt have another player to play with.
Even though these same people are quick to hype up certain role players all season long. Jamison the most, as soon as he was traded to CLE, all I heard was that Lebron finally has a legit scorer with him......Now Jamison is a bum.

Its ridiculous.

[dabomb2045]

No


Everyone has forgotten than Jamison averages 19 ppg for his career. I mena every single year whenever Cleveland lose ( or in this case, might lose ), its because he doesnt have another player to play with.
Even though these same people are quick to hype up certain role players all season long. Jamison the most, as soon as he was traded to CLE, all I heard was that Lebron finally has a legit scorer with him......Now Jamison is a bum.

Its ridiculous.

Where has Jamison been in this series? I've barely noticed him. 9 points last night. Why isnt he stepping up if he really is a "star" player? His little float shots and non-aggressive play do not match up well against KG, Perkins, Davis etc. Jamison is the best player LeBron's ever played with....and thats not saying much. He isnt a star player by any stretch of the imagination.

You're getting on LeBron....but do we forget what your boy Kobe did after Shaq left and he was essentially a one-man show for a few years? Two 1st round exits and one season of no playoffs. Then the FO went out and got him Gasol, Artest, drafted Bynum, got Fisher back etc etc......one man cannot win on his own. As great as Kobe is, as great as Jordan was---even they didnt win on their own. Jordan didnt win until Pippen emerged as a superstar. Kobe had Shaq (or Shaq had Kobe), now he has Gasol/Artest/Odom.

Mo Williams has gotten destroyed two straight years in the playoffs. Jamison hasnt done much. All these other role players (West, Varejao, Illgauskas, Shaq, Gibson etc etc) just arent good. They get exposed in the playoffs by teams that are more well-rounded, have more talent and more ways to beat you. In Cleveland, its pray LeBron has a big game....and pray guys hit open shots that LeBron creates. If 1 of these 2 things dont happen, they have NO chance to beat a better "team" like Boston, Orlando, LA, Phoenix etc.

[b_joseph]

Where has Jamison been in this series? I've barely noticed him. 9 points last night. Why isnt he stepping up if he really is a "star" player? His little float shots and non-aggressive play do not match up well against KG, Perkins, Davis etc. Jamison is the best player LeBron's ever played with....and thats not saying much. He isnt a star player by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree, he has to play better but he has proven over many years that he is a very talented player. You dont average 20 and 8 for a career if you arent a quality player.
Even you said when he was traded that he is a good player. Now, if they dont fit together, then thats a completely different thing because not all talented players can work together ( Look at Dallas over the years and how talented they have been ).

You're getting on LeBron....but do we forget what your boy Kobe did after Shaq left and he was essentially a one-man show for a few years? Two 1st round exits and one season of no playoffs. Then the FO went out and got him Gasol, Artest, drafted Bynum, got Fisher back etc etc......one man cannot win on his own. As great as Kobe is, as great as Jordan was---even they didnt win on their own. Jordan didnt win until Pippen emerged as a superstar. Kobe had Shaq (or Shaq had Kobe), now he has Gasol/Artest/Odom.

I really am not getting on Lebron at all. He is the best player in this league ( there, I said it, I own it now ). All I am saying is that its unfair to say he has no help on his team whenever the team plays poorly.
Now, his team without him would not accomplish much but there is talent there that should help him and has helped him over the course of this and last season.
Williams averaged 17 and 5 in his final 2 seasons with the Bucks...that is nothing to turn your nose up at. Those numbers are good good numbers.

Sideshow is one of the better defensive big men in the sport and works the screen roll to perfection a lot of the time.

These players cant be praised for 7 months and then thrown under a bus because of 2 weeks.

[kan_t]

I agree, he has to play better but he has proven over many years that he is a very talented player. You dont average 20 and 8 for a career if you arent a quality player.
Even you said when he was traded that he is a good player. Now, if they dont fit together, then thats a completely different thing because not all talented players can work together ( Look at Dallas over the years and how talented they have been ).

I really am not getting on Lebron at all. He is the best player in this league ( there, I said it, I own it now ). All I am saying is that its unfair to say he has no help on his team whenever the team plays poorly.
Now, his team without him would not accomplish much but there is talent there that should help him and has helped him over the course of this and last season.
Williams averaged 17 and 5 in his final 2 seasons with the Bucks...that is nothing to turn your nose up at. Those numbers are good good numbers.

Sideshow is one of the better defensive big men in the sport and works the screen roll to perfection a lot of the time.

These players cant be praised for 7 months and then thrown under a bus because of 2 weeks.

Exactly.

[dabomb2045]

I agree, he has to play better but he has proven over many years that he is a very talented player. You dont average 20 and 8 for a career if you arent a quality player.
Even you said when he was traded that he is a good player. Now, if they dont fit together, then thats a completely different thing because not all talented players can work together ( Look at Dallas over the years and how talented they have been ).

I really am not getting on Lebron at all. He is the best player in this league ( there, I said it, I own it now ). All I am saying is that its unfair to say he has no help on his team whenever the team plays poorly.
Now, his team without him would not accomplish much but there is talent there that should help him and has helped him over the course of this and last season.
Williams averaged 17 and 5 in his final 2 seasons with the Bucks...that is nothing to turn your nose up at. Those numbers are good good numbers.

Sideshow is one of the better defensive big men in the sport and works the screen roll to perfection a lot of the time.

These players cant be praised for 7 months and then thrown under a bus because of 2 weeks.

I wasnt praising them for 7 months. I've felt for the longest time that this team doesnt have the talent to beat more well-rounded teams. Like I said....what James is going thru right now reminds me of Jordan in the late 80s when he kept running into those real good, and well rounded Pistons teams.

Two straight years Williams has basically vanished in the playoffs. Open shots missed constantly. He had that one nice run in Game 1...and thats it. Now if Williams could play like that more often? And Jamison could step up and deliver a 30-35 point performance when the team needs it? Then you might have something. But it just doesnt happen. Jamison doesnt seem to be the type of guy you throw the ball down low to and watch him go to work...like Gasol can do for LA. He gets his points off open jumpers and alot of garbage points. He isnt someone you can give the ball to and say "hey James is off tonight, go get us 30+ and carry us".

The Cavs record is as good as it is because they are in the East. If you put them in the West...they prob win 50. Its just not a very talented and well-rounded club.

[b_joseph]

Even when they traded for Jamison?

On paper, which is all the GM can go by, it was a good move. Just like Dallas with their trade that turned to crap.

The thing that would concern me if I was a Knicks fan is that it really is hard to build a championship team. We've all seen how it is easy to build a quality reg season team but how hard it is to find the pieces that make a Title team.
What role players would surround Lebron and lets say Bosh? Where is the leadership from the other players coming from? The defensive toughness in the paint? The perimeter defender who can also shoot a little to stretch the floor?

I actually worry that Lebron would be under too much pressure in New York because you guys will be expecting a title within 2 years and it might not happen that quickly. Coudl you imagine the reacting on WFAN if what happen in game 4 and game 5 happened while wearing a Knicks uni?

[Yankees13]

Where has Jamison been in this series? I've barely noticed him. 9 points last night. Why isnt he stepping up if he really is a "star" player? His little float shots and non-aggressive play do not match up well against KG, Perkins, Davis etc. Jamison is the best player LeBron's ever played with....and thats not saying much. He isnt a star player by any stretch of the imagination.

You're getting on LeBron....but do we forget what your boy Kobe did after Shaq left and he was essentially a one-man show for a few years? Two 1st round exits and one season of no playoffs. Then the FO went out and got him Gasol, Artest, drafted Bynum, got Fisher back etc etc......one man cannot win on his own. As great as Kobe is, as great as Jordan was---even they didnt win on their own. Jordan didnt win until Pippen emerged as a superstar. Kobe had Shaq (or Shaq had Kobe), now he has Gasol/Artest/Odom.

Mo Williams has gotten destroyed two straight years in the playoffs. Jamison hasnt done much. All these other role players (West, Varejao, Illgauskas, Shaq, Gibson etc etc) just arent good. They get exposed in the playoffs by teams that are more well-rounded, have more talent and more ways to beat you. In Cleveland, its pray LeBron has a big game....and pray guys hit open shots that LeBron creates. If 1 of these 2 things dont happen, they have NO chance to beat a better "team" like Boston, Orlando, LA, Phoenix etc.

Great post, I'm tired of the specious arguments from the LeBron haters.

[dabomb2045]

I never said it wasnt a good move. It was an offensive upgrade. But it still wasnt enough....that team needs more. If Mo Williams were say---Deron Williams....then you can say "ok hey there's that second superstar that James has and he can win a title with".

If this was the Shaq of even 2005...that might be enough. But there just isnt enough on that roster IMO to win 7 game series against other top teams.

[dabomb2045]

Even when they traded for Jamison?

On paper, which is all the GM can go by, it was a good move. Just like Dallas with their trade that turned to crap.

The thing that would concern me if I was a Knicks fan is that it really is hard to build a championship team. We've all seen how it is easy to build a quality reg season team but how hard it is to find the pieces that make a Title team.
What role players would surround Lebron and lets say Bosh? Where is the leadership from the other players coming from? The defensive toughness in the paint? The perimeter defender who can also shoot a little to stretch the floor?

I actually worry that Lebron would be under too much pressure in New York because you guys will be expecting a title within 2 years and it might not happen that quickly. Coudl you imagine the reacting on WFAN if what happen in game 4 and game 5 happened while wearing a Knicks uni?

The Knicks have to hope they can get James/Bosh (Plan A IMO)....then build out from there. They have a few nice role players that IMO can be cogs of a winning team--Gallinari and Douglas. Chandler could get dealt for a valuable piece.

Im not saying signing those two alone guarantees a ring....more has to be done to find the right mix. But if those two are real options, you cant not go after them.

[b_joseph]

Well, we'll see. After all of this, watch them have a great game on Thursday and win the series.

The thing that always gets taken for granted, even by me, is the player like Derek Fisher who is of no use to any other team but is perfect for us because he can hit the big shots.
Its players like that who are so hard to find but when you get them, they really show up for you in big spots.

[dabomb2045]

Well, we'll see. After all of this, watch them have a great game on Thursday and win the series.

Even if they do (if they do, its because James just went off AND Jamison/Williams/West/Varejao actually decide to contribute offensively)....I still do not see them beating Orlando.

[Yankees13]

I never said it wasnt a good move. It was an offensive upgrade. But it still wasnt enough....that team needs more. If Mo Williams were say---Deron Williams....then you can say "ok hey there's that second superstar that James has and he can win a title with".

If this was the Shaq of even 2005...that might be enough. But there just isnt enough on that roster IMO to win 7 game series against other top teams.

The thing is, the Cavs look alright on paper, but you match them up against other teams and you see the problems. Just look at this series. The Celtics are better at every position except at SF (I guess you could call center a push), and Paul Pierce is no slouch and does a great job on LeBron. It only becomes more glaring against the Lakers and Magic.

[kan_t]

I never said it wasnt a good move. It was an offensive upgrade. But it still wasnt enough....that team needs more. If Mo Williams were say---Deron Williams....then you can say "ok hey there's that second superstar that James has and he can win a title with".

If this was the Shaq of even 2005...that might be enough. But there just isnt enough on that roster IMO to win 7 game series against other top teams.

But there is no 2005 Shaq. Deron Williams is not available. Not many teams are as lucky as the Lakers and the Celtics. Superstars are not always available in the market.

[dabomb2045]

But there is no 2005 Shaq. Deron Williams is not available. Not many teams are as lucky as the Lakers and the Celtics. Superstar is not always available in the market.

Right. And thats why those teams have won the last two championships. You just proved my point. With a few rare exceptions, teams that win NBA championships have one dominant superstar and another superstar, or one dominant guy/a few other star players.

Kobe/Shaq. Jordan/Pippen. KG/Allen/Pierce. Magic/Worthy/Kareem. Bird/McHale/Parish. Thomas/Dumars/Aguirre/Rodman. Exceptions would be Hakeem and the Rockets (who wouldnt have won if Jordan didnt go off to play baseball), the 2004 Pistons (lost to a more talented but dysfunctional Lakers team) and the 1999, 2003 and 2007 Spurs (HOF'er in Duncan, and just a nice cast of several very good/borderline star players like Parker and Ginobili).

[kan_t]

Right. And thats why those teams have won the last two championships. You just proved my point. With a few rare exceptions, teams that win NBA championships have one dominant superstar and another superstar, or one dominant guy/a few other star players.

Kobe/Shaq. Jordan/Pippen. KG/Allen/Pierce. Magic/Worthy/Kareem. Bird/McHale/Parish. Thomas/Dumars/Aguirre/Rodman. Exceptions would be Hakeem and the Rockets (who wouldnt have won if Jordan didnt go off to play baseball), the 2004 Pistons (lost to a more talented but dysfunctional Lakers team) and the 1999, 2003 and 2007 Spurs (HOF'er in Duncan, and just a nice cast of several very good/borderline star players like Parker and Ginobili).

I'm not saying the Cavs are the best team in the league. I always think that the East is a three teams race and the Lakers is the team to beat. But lots of people think that the Cavs' supporting cast is arwful. That's what I really disagree.

[dabomb2045]

It might not be "awful"....but its not good enough to win a ring. Not when you compare them historically to past championship teams, as well as the teams they need to go thru to win it.

[kan_t]

It might not be "awful"....but its not good enough to win a ring. Not when you compare them historically to past championship teams, as well as the teams they need to go thru to win it.

No disagreement here. And that's why I don't think the Magic can beat the Lakers if they meet in the final. I always think that the Celtics is the last team the Lakers want to face.

[S2]

I am both excited and scared to death about Game 6. Either the C's win and it will be frigging awesome or they will lose and most likely end up losing the series. And I have no clue which is more likely. It's going to be a long day.

[chanman7483]

No real importance to this, but just found it funny. Was reading a blog online where they were throwing out And 1 mix tape names for players and Lebron was Lebron James AKA King James AKA Jake Sully. In case you don't remember, that's the guy from Avatar... put it side by side and yes, I def saw it and busted out laughing in the office.

[The Greek]

I am both excited and scared to death about Game 6. Either the C's win and it will be frigging awesome or they will lose and most likely end up losing the series. And I have no clue which is more likely. It's going to be a long day.

Indeed.

But knowing the Knicks luck (aka no luck..ever), the Cavs will blow out the Celtics in the next 2 games with LeBron scoring 40+ points in each game.

[Snatch Catch]

Please, Celtics, just give us that chance...

[Snatch Catch]

[jeterdaman]

Why do people really think it's a foregone conclusion that Lebron is going to the Knicks if they don't get past the 2nd round?

Why the hell would anyone want to go and play for the Knicks?

[Snatch Catch]

Why do people really think it's a foregone conclusion that Lebron is going to the Knicks if they don't get past the 2nd round?

Why the hell would anyone want to go and play for the Knicks?

Right?! They've got a terrible cap situation, only aging, over-the-hill players on the roster, play in an obsure town, and have a horrible fanbase.

It makes no sense!

[chanman7483]

Why do people really think it's a foregone conclusion that Lebron is going to the Knicks if they don't get past the 2nd round?

Why the hell would anyone want to go and play for the Knicks?

Read the first couple of pages of this thread.

[pjfan]

[b_joseph]

Over or under - Lebron goes for 35?

[pjfan]

Over or under - Lebron goes for 35?

I'm going over. I'm petrified that he goes off tonight.

[jeterdaman]

Over or under - Lebron goes for 35?

I say over and the Cavs lose 94-91

[Snatch Catch]

I'm going over. I'm petrified that he goes off tonight.

Agreed.

If he throws up a clunker, I'm convinced that report of his elbow ligament being torn is accurate.

[Snatch Catch]

The craziest thing in this whole scenario is that it's still within the realm of possibilities that they win tonight, win game 7, go on to win a championship, and everybody is buzzing about how LeBron transcended the game and is in the pantheon of legends.

That's still in play *right now*.

[S2]

He's only had 3 bad games in 7 years, of course he is going to have a good game.

It's nice to see all the Celtics love. Like a big happy family.

[Snatch Catch]

I'm as nervous for this game tonight as I have been for any Knicks game since '99.

[dabomb2045]

I'm going over. I'm petrified that he goes off tonight.

I'll say over but the Celtics win anyways. I'm gonna say.....44 for James tonight. But I dont even know if it matters. LeBron scored over 40 every game against Orlando last year and still lost in 6 (I'm almost positive he scored 40+ in a Game 6 road loss to the Magic).

Whether the Cavs win or not depends on his much maligned supporting cast. If you think about the two games the Cavs won in this series---they got big production from others (Game 1 it was Mo Williams, Game 3 it was Jamison). If Jamison, Williams, and a player or two off their bench step up....they can win. If not, they lose and it doesnt matter how well James plays.

I will say that if James does have another clunker--there has to be something else going on. As in his elbow is probably in much worse shape then anyone has been letting on.

[b_joseph]

Yall ready?

[cyhughes22]

Tell me you guys heard the fans in Boston chanting New York Knicks at him. Haha wow.

[dabomb2045]

First time in my life I've ever heard a chant regarding a NY team in Boston....that didnt have the word "sucks" at the end of it.

[b_joseph]

They were planning it the past couple days...

They might use a M.S.G chant at some stage also.

[b_joseph]

This is what I am talking about...Mo Williams is a quality player.