2009-2010 NBA Thread

[b_joseph]

Since when?

Since when? Since forever. The majority of title winning teams had Center's who were dominant on at least one end of the floor.
Oden has a chance to be a dominant defensive players.

Also, IMO, Kevin Durant is already at where TMAC was in his prime, minus some muscle and a nasty streak. Yes, I know TMAC has the mental/lazy/injury issues, but the magic didn't lose b/c of anything TMAC did or didn't do.. they lost b/c their second best player Grant Hill was hurt the whole time and he had to work with Mike effing Miller as second banana.

Durant has the stats but he isnt near McGrady's prime level.
Find some of Tracy's old games back in the early part of this decade. Only Kobe had more game that McGrady and considering who Kobe is, that is something.

On a side note, I Was watching NBA TV and watched a playoffs game with Shaq when he was at his peak with the lakers... WOW. I didn't truly appreciate how much of a monster he was. No one stood a chance against him.

Crazy how quick his feet were for a big man. If he could shoot free throws, he would have averaged at least 40 per game in his prime.
Teams wouldnt have fouled him as much if he could shoot and that would have led to so many more dunks and lay ups.

Joy to watch when the playoffs came around and he and Kobe would turn it up a level.

[chanman7483]

Agreed that you need a big man to be succesful, but I feel portland needed a superstar scorer who they could lean on in the clutch. Durant was that guy. Oden is pretty much a more athletic joel pryzbila, who they already have. That's how I viewed him going into the draft. I think they have to do something with aldridge and make him a bigger part of the offense, bc he is certainly capable.

And yes, I know they have brandon roy, but brandon roy is not a number one guy at this point

[Joba-Walkee]

I never got the Greg Oden hype, even when he was at Ohio State. Slow, no offensive skills to speak of, seemed to be bit by the injury bug all the time(for a kid, that's just a sign of things to come).. just nothing about him that's exciting. Solid role player? Sure... number 1 pick over a guy like Durant.. come on. Wasn't it obvious to everyone except the Blazers that it was a huge mistake from the get go?

You're crazy. Per 36, on the slowest paced team in the league, Oden is averaging 16.7/13/3.5, with great man defense, and obviously, great help defense. This is his second year in the league. He's 4th in the league in Rebound Rate, WHILE playing with the #1 player in RR. Averaging nearly 17 points per game on 10 shots / 36 minutes on the slowest paced team with a paltry usage rate of 19.0 is incredible.

If both are healthy, you have to take Oden. Strong, athletic 7'0 players with great defensive instincts at a young age don't grown on trees.

The mistake Portland made was not being able to foresee Oden having this many injury problems. It was a gamble, but if the gamble paid off, it would have paid off huge. Besides, Durant would have been a bit redundant with Brandon Roy in town.

Obviously, Durant looks like the better pick in hindsight, but no one predicted Oden would be THIS injury prone.

[chanman7483]

Points taken, but I'm glad you brought up per 36.

Joel Pryzbilla per 36: 6 points, 13.4 boards(4.9 offensive), 2.3 blocks on FOUR shot attempts per game. I also was not aware of rr(rebound rate), but since you bring it up, the number one guy in the league is.. Joel pryzbilla.

So tell me again how hard it is to get that kind of production? I have a coworker that comes from ohio, loves ohio state and constantly watched their games and forced me to as well. I hate college ball btw. I never saw anything that made me say wow, this guy is a top pick.. Durant on the other hand..

And none of this to say is that jp is better than oden, but his defensive and rebounding numbers(oden's calling card) are not only matched, but surpassed by someone the casual nba fan would consider to be a scrub.

[chanman7483]

Also, pryzbilla has something oden doesnt- 2 legs that are the same length.

[Joba-Walkee]

Przybilla is a great back up center, and a very good rebounder and help defender, but he's an offensive black hole. Plus, he's reached his peak. Oden is far, far from his.
Why are you stating Pryz's 6 points on 4 shots as if it's impressive?

The casual NBA fan is an idiot, then. He was probably the best back up big in the game last year.

Przybilla was prone to injury in his early seasons as well. He's also never posted a PER higher than 16. Oden's is at 23.3 in his second year in the league. Statistically, Oden is in another world compared to Pryzbilla.

[chanman7483]

Jp gets his points on dunks and putbacks, but if you were to up his 4 to odens 10, jp's right there, with 15 pounts per 36.

Another thing that's carried over to the nba is his propensity for picking up fouls in bunches. He's got to learn to avoid this or he won't be able to stay on the court even if he turns it around health wise.

Another big man tangent- ewing has been working with dwight howard for years now, presumably to help nurture and grow dhoward's offensive game. Well, he hasn't added much other than a running hook that he launches at the backboard at 90 mph, so wtf is p-ew doing down there?

Another tangent- juwan howard just checked in for the blazers.

[Joba-Walkee]

Jp gets his points on dunks and putbacks, but if you were to up his 4 to odens 10, jp's right there, with 15 pounts per 36.

Another thing that's carried over to the nba is his propensity for picking up fouls in bunches. He's got to learn to avoid this or he won't be able to stay on the court even if he turns it around health wise.

Another big man tangent- ewing has been working with dwight howard for years now, presumably to help nurture and grow dhoward's offensive game. Well, he hasn't added much other than a running hook that he launches at the backboard at 90 mph, so wtf is p-ew doing down there?

Another tangent- juwan howard just checked in for the blazers.

... and you upped Oden's 11 shots per 36 to 23 shots per 36 like MJ had, he'd be averaging 35 points per game, or 5 more than MJ averaged in his career!

(You're doing this whole "statistics" thing wrong. Please stop)

[chanman7483]

... and you upped Oden's 11 shots per 36 to 23 shots per 36 like MJ had, he'd be averaging 35 points per game, or 5 more than MJ averaged in his career!

(You're doing this whole "statistics" thing wrong. Please stop)

Glad to- I do normal stats, not the rr's and stuff like that as I mentioned earlier. However, I do watch a lot of ball and I know what my eyes tell me(supplemented by traditional stats.), and it was clear to me durant shouldve been the guy.. But oh well.

But the fact remains, u wanted to bring stats into it, and jp has been better as shown by the metrics you pointed out.. But you're right, I should stop now.

[Joba-Walkee]

Glad to- I do normal stats, not the rr's and stuff like that as I mentioned earlier. However, I do watch a lot of ball and I know what my eyes tell me(supplemented by traditional stats.), and it was clear to me durant shouldve been the guy.. But oh well.

But the fact remains, u wanted to bring stats into it, and jp has been better as shown by the metrics you pointed out.. But you're right, I should stop now.

Traditional stats are silly. They're not pace adjusted, usage adjusted, or minutes adjusted. It's like using runs and RBI in baseball instead of OPS and fielding % instead of UZR.

Pryz was better in one metric, RR. Oden killed him in everything else.

[chanman7483]

I agree, there is a need for advanced stats because I've seen how great it is for baseball. My problem is that I look at these numbers for, say centers, and I see nazr mohammad crushes andrew bynum in PER. But if I'm a gm and I'm only looking to build a team for this season(not considering bynum's next x amt of years).. Guess what? I'm still taking bynum. And I'm sure I would hardly be alone. So that throws a wrench into the whole PER thing. Its a nice to have. And the reason I'm taking bynum is bc I know from watching that bynum is better.

Call it ignorance or whatever, but I don't feel it is. I AM hoping to see reliable and relevent advanced stats come out though, to be clear.

[Joba-Walkee]

I agree, there is a need for advanced stats because I've seen how great it is for baseball. My problem is that I look at these numbers for, say centers, and I see nazr mohammad crushes andrew bynum in PER. But if I'm a gm and I'm only looking to build a team for this season(not considering bynum's next x amt of years).. Guess what? I'm still taking bynum. And I'm sure I would hardly be alone. So that throws a wrench into the whole PER thing. Its a nice to have. And the reason I'm taking bynum is bc I know from watching that bynum is better.

Call it ignorance or whatever, but I don't feel it is. I AM hoping to see reliable and relevent advanced stats come out though, to be clear.

Mohammad plays a whopping 13.6 minutes per game. The season is young, and he is far outpreforming his usual production.

Just like in baseball, advanced statistics can't and shouldn't be used in a vacuum. Yes, PER is minutes & pace adjusted, but that does not mean minutes should be ignored. This is like looking at single season OPS without looking at BABIP.

[b_joseph]

Chanman - Go to 82games.com.

There is some stuff on there that shows how a players team does when he is on the court and when he is off the court. Ofcourse, that only works for players who play a good number of minutes but its something never the less.

[Panamaniac42]

The Bulls are getting shat on again - 76-46 Hawks right now. I thought they were a much better team than this...guess they are simply not playing for Del Negro right now.

Speaking of the Hawks I wonder if Joe Johnson stays put, they look good and everyone worth mentioning on that team is under contract for a while.

[dabomb2045]

The Bulls are getting shat on again - 76-46 Hawks right now. I thought they were a much better team than this...guess they are simply not playing for Del Negro right now.

Speaking of the Hawks I wonder if Joe Johnson stays put, they look good and everyone worth mentioning on that team is under contract for a while.

I think the Bulls def need a coaching change. That team is WAY too talented to be playing the way it is this year.

[b_joseph]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

[b_joseph]

http://www.box.net/shared/hp6e2a0r6t

http://www.box.net/shared/14qvdftp1e

[chanman7483]

Anyone been paying attention to Allen Iverson and how he's embarassing himself so far on the Sixers? He's literally getting run over by guys. He'll be on defense, the offensive player will bump him, and he literally goes flying back about 10 feet, falls, and then slides another 3,4 feet on the ground. He's also not flopping. I've never seen anything like that before, and sure as hell wasn't expecting to see it happening to AI.

I guess that's what happens when you're an out of shape NBA player, 5'10, weigh about 160/170, and trying to guard NBA shooting guards.

I've seen that happen about 2,3 times so far to him.

[chanman7483]

Dirk is a few games away from hitting the 20k plateau... what a career so far. I hope he gets a ring. Early on in his career, I respected his game, but not him as a player - he would get on his teammates when they missed big shots, and wasn't hitting any of his own. He seems to have matured into a leader and I see him rooting his teammates on no matter what. He's also in the top 3 in the NBA when it comes to hitting big shots and taking over.

[chanman7483]

The Magic are going nowhere unless they get D Howard shots down low. Their year to year formula is to jack up tons of 3's - which sometimes works, but prob is destined for failure in the playoffs. In a recent loss to Phoenix, Dwight howard attempted ONE shot in 41 minutes. I only saw a bit of the game on ESPN, but I guess the Suns had some kind of scheme to force him to give up the ball, but as a superstar player, you have to adapt.

I also think that the loss of Hedo hurts them a lot in this area and was over looked - sure, his scoring and ball handling were huge, but Hedo at 6'10 was able to easily see and pass the ball over the D and feed it into Howard. Now they've got the likes of Jason Williams and JJ Reddick handling that and I think it's hurting his game. Patrick Ewing needs to step in and show the big man some moves.

[Snatch Catch]

The most bizarre stat in the NBA this year:

Jarred Dudley, yes, the beefy former BC big man, is currently 4th in the NBA in 3PFG% at just over 48%.

And it's not on an insignificant amount of shots.

[Panamaniac42]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4755953

Carl Landry breaks five teeth, two of which became embedded in Dirk's elbow.

[S2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RSee...layer_embedded

[26 and counting]

Wow, the Cavs crushed the Lakers in LA.

[BxBomber44]

Meh, doesn't make them the best in the NBA though...

[S2]

Rondo changing sneakers at the half, ha. He took over that game, even with all those turnovers. So glad they gave him all that money.

And even with only 6 and 4, Perk is still a beast.

[BxBomber44]

Lakers (like Cavs) need OT to win in Sacramento. Except the lakers needed 2, because they were down 7 with 2:30 to go in OT1.

[Joba-Walkee]

Has there been a better game this decade than the Nets Suns Double OT thriller in December 2006?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...612070NJN.html

[Brick Tamland]

Griffin to have surgery on his kneecap.

I seriously believe the Clippers have some sort of curse placed upon them. They just can't win.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...html?eref=sihp

[b_joseph]

3000 wins in franchise history....its been fun watching the better part of 600+ wins.

[BxBomber44]

Mav announcers didn't even mention the 3000 ( I watched online ). Turds.

[Big_Matt34]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIRNB...layer_embedded

Thats some impressive body control, he now probably has the two best dunks for the Celts this year.

[NyQuil]

Arenas is going to be charged with felony gun possession.

Moron.

[Brick Tamland]

How much does he stand to lose if his contract is voided? Like $93M?

[Yankeesfan21]

Arenas is an idiot, plain and simple. He was never worth his contract to begin with, then he's going to pull out a gun in a locker room and point it at somebody? The dude deserves to get his contract terminated.

[THEBOSS84]

Watched this live last night and thought it was cool, naturally it's on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afKsssTPfyw

[S2]

Arenas and Crittenton have been suspended for the season.

In other news, All-Star reserves are announced tonight. I saw on a Celtics site that Rajon Rondo is rumored to be among them. Well deserved, if true. He is probably the best point guard in the (point guard depleted) East. The only guy I can think of as even being close is Derrick Rose.

[YanksFan1992]

Good to see that Brandon Roy All-Star team again.

And congrats to Durant as well. Sigh.

[b_joseph]

Monster win for the Lakers..we needed that one in a big way

[dabomb2045]

USA named the national team roster for 2010-12 today. Out of the twelve guys on the Olympic team in 08, everyone is on the roster except for Kidd (who said he retired from international play), Redd and Prince (both battling injuries and a decline in their games). Should be interesting to see what our team actually looks like for the 2010 Worlds in September---James, Wade and Bosh have all expressed concern that their impending free agency might interfere w/playing. Wouldnt be surprised to see Kobe sit out too and save his legs for London in 2012 (or qualifying in 2011 if we dont win Worlds).

The entire roster:
LeBron James
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Chris Bosh
Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Carmelo Anthony
Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer
Kevin Durant
Derrick Rose
Chauncey Billups
Amare Stoudemire
Lamar Odom
Al Jefferson
Kevin Love
Rudy Gay
OJ Mayo
Andre Igoudala
Kendrick Perkins
Danny Granger
David Lee
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
LaMarcus Aldridge
Gerald Wallace
Eric Gordon

[dabomb2045]

Can someone tell me why teams still double Shaq? I dont get it. This isnt the Shaq of 1993-2006. When I watch teams play 1 on 1 against him, he does very little at this point in his career. His explosiveness is gone. His low post game has eroded badly. His points mostly come off of wide open dunks setup by someone driving to the hoop, or dunks off rebounds.

Yet watching the Magic-Cavs game tonight....Orlando was doubling him on almost every possession. Dont get it. Let them dump the ball down low and let him go 1 on 1....I'll take that now. He isnt gonna hurt you much backing down to the basket and scoring anymore--he doesnt have those kind of skills anymore.

[S2]

Trade deadline coming up!!

In a dramatic move that would resuscitate their fading championship hopes, the Boston Celtics are discussing a deal with the Washington Wizards for forwards Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. The proposed deal would send the expiring contracts of Ray Allen, Brian Scalabrine and J.R. Giddens to the Wizards, a move that would signal the start of Washington’s rebuilding process. Yahoo! Sports

Love Ray Allen but that's a two for one deal, it's a no brainer. To say they are in full on "we're a veteran team, we can turn the switch on at anytime" mode is an understatement. I think this move could both shake up the team and add quality pieces. I doubt it happens, though. Ainge may be the unquestioned king of rumors.

[Snatch Catch]

Wow, that would be an awesome deal for the Celts.

[dabomb2045]

Trade deadline coming up!!Love Ray Allen but that's a two for one deal, it's a no brainer. To say they are in full on "we're a veteran team, we can turn the switch on at anytime" mode is an understatement. I think this move could both shake up the team and add quality pieces. I doubt it happens, though. Ainge may be the unquestioned king of rumors.

Would be a good trade. Allen is on the downside while I think Jamison and Butler still are in their prime years.

I still think whether the Celtics can win a title or not comes down to Garnett. He needs to play like he did in 07-08 for them to win. I dont know if he has it in him anymore.

[kan_t]

Trade deadline coming up!!Love Ray Allen but that's a two for one deal, it's a no brainer. To say they are in full on "we're a veteran team, we can turn the switch on at anytime" mode is an understatement. I think this move could both shake up the team and add quality pieces. I doubt it happens, though. Ainge may be the unquestioned king of rumors.

This rumor may not be true but I will be surprise if Ray is still on the team after the deadline. Even they let Ray go after this season their payroll will be still above the cap next season. That means Ainge can't do much to improve the team. In order to compete in the future, moving Ray now is a no brainer.

[b_joseph]

Butler is a heck of a player...he was a bright spot in his sole Laker season. I think he'd do well in Boston, he has the arrogance to step up on the big stage.

[Joba-Walkee]

Butler is a heck of a player...he was a bright spot in his sole Laker season. I think he'd do well in Boston, he has the arrogance to step up on the big stage.

Meh. He's breaking down.



http://www.newsday.com/sports/basket...wski-1.1757444

Sweeeeeeeeet.

[Snatch Catch]

Cavs close on Amare. That would be a deal with enormous repercussions.

[dabomb2045]

Cavs close on Amare. That would be a deal with enormous repercussions.

Finally a legit big-time offensive threat for James to work with.

[S2]

I still see him leaving Cleveland. I don't know why either. They are building something real nice in Cleveland right now.

Is there a precedent for the game's best player to leave one of the elite teams (top 3 for a few years) to go a team that, quite frankly, has been mediocre? Especially since the money will be the same, if not less?