Looking strong this Spring.
Looking strong this Spring.
The coming of The Carpenter.
“I love to hit. I want to hit .300, .400, .500. I just love to hit.”
Thru 2 today every out was a GO
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
Thats good to hear. In the minors he was known as a guy who induced a lot of ground balls and we didnt see anything resembling that when he was in the bigs. If he can pitch to his potential then we have one of the best spot starters in the league and a very good pitcher to fill Andys spot in 2010.Originally Posted by Rastven
If you listen to the fans you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.- Brian Cashman
I hope this thread belongs in the minors for most of the year. Nothing against Hughes and I hope he's a stud in the NYY 2010 rotation but quite frankly if he get's a lot of starts in means one of the 5 either got hurt or isn't really performing.
I do hope Hughes makes about 10 big league starts and performs very well in them but otherwise I'd like to see 30+ starts from the front 4 and 150+ IP form Joba which wouldn't leave a lot of innings for Phil.
But if someone does go on the DL I hope Hughes pitches as well as he has so far this spring.
Baseball is life;
the rest is just details.
No SO's today thru 3 but he's 8-1 so he's getting them to hit into the ground.
The two hits so far have been off decent pitches according to the Twins announcers
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
Hughes' final line from today:
4.1 IP | 3H | 1R | 1BB | 0K | 10-3 GO/FO
Nice to see all the ground balls, hopefully they were the result of work on his changeup, or something.
I haven't seen many changeups from Phil. I really don't think he's throwing it, despite the Cashman quote.
Calmer than you are.
Did the announcers think he looked good? It's nice to see Phil bounce back from his last outing ....I would think the Yankees would have to be thrilled with his progress.
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
In his post game interview two outings ago he said he threw a few and they felt good; he also said he was actively working on it. Are you watching his ST games?
I only saw the one that was televised. I didn't see any or any worth remebering.
Didn't hear the quote that he is actively working on, he should be focused on his change rather than his cutter.
Calmer than you are.
Ah, I see, you are basing your opinion on basically nothing
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
some things never change around here...
Your right, some things definitely do not change. It's pretty funny.
Calmer than you are.
At least you're consistent. I'll give you that.
RB, the Twinkies announcers weren't raving but they weren't beating Phil up either.
He seems solid.
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
Everytime I see him pitch, I see something different from what I hear when I don't see him pitch. When I don't see him pitch he is now throwing his changeup well and his velocity increases. Call me skeptical.
Calmer than you are.
can i call you negative and pessimistic too?
Well, in any case (and thanks!) Phil was very happy :
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2009/03/2...kees-at-twins/
Phil did very well and feels good. I’m very happy that the change is coming along -soon enough, he’ll get the curve, FB and change going at the same time (if he indeed did throw the curve - should we believe Phil?) The FB command is very encouraging….
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
Sure, wouldn't be the first time. As I mentioned above, I hope he's throwing his change, and forgetting about his cutter. I just didn't see it that was in his one start, maybe he's changed.can i call you negative and pessimistic too?
Calmer than you are.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/Phil Hughes: “I felt good about my fastball command today, and I felt good about my changeup. My curve wasn’t great, but was usable. I did throw some good cutters. Overall, I feel good. I feel strong. I’m ready to go.”
Tiger Woods:Sent: 01:28 PM 09/08/2009:
Have you ever had a golden shower done to you
this is spring training buddy. he's working on stuff.
You can't tell anything from a single spring start. Some guys don't even break out all their pitches.
Obviously he says he's working on the change but I don't think he should be doing that exclusively. The cutter will be an important pitch for him.
Great thing about today was the GO/FO ratio, he needs to keep that up
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
Why shouldn't he be working on both?
Baseball is life;
the rest is just details.
I guess he could work on both but his changeup hasn't made any improvements in many years. I think his changeup is a much more important pitch than his cutter.
Calmer than you are.
Considering he barely threw in the minors by all accounts I'd say he's made great improvements in 2 years or less.
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
He definitely threw it in the minors. I've seen clips when it looked like a plus pitch. "Great improvements?" Do you think his changeup is above average?
Calmer than you are.
My bad, he did throw it more than I thought in Trenton. My recollection of 06 is Phil throwing a steady diet of FB's and CB's.
"Changeup: When Hughes made the decision to not throw his plus slider and instead focus all of his breaking effort on the curveball, it quickly became clear that he would need a 3rd pitch. Enter the changeup. He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches. That will change. The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. It worked. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone. If Hughes' track record is at all predictive, expect him to throw it as well as he does his fastball."
The question is, where did it go?
Is it a victim of the layoffs in 07 and 08 or was it never quite as good as scouts thought because AA and lower hitters aren't as adept at dealing with the offspeed stuff hence making it look better?
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
If he could actually command it his change would be a plus pitch. He's capable but I think he's apprehensive to use it because he doesn't have great command of it. Then he doesn't throw it so his command of it doesn't improve. And since his command doesn't improve he's not confident in it and so on.
He never had it.
The cutter works for him and it's another pitch - I agree. I see no reason why he should junk it.
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
Well he won't have to worry about the pressure to win in AAA - I'm sure the Yankees are not going to care whether he wins or loses at Scranton. I expect them to have Phil throw his change enough so that he does become a good pitch for him - they are trying to develop a major league pitcher here (and an excellent one at that), so throwng that change (or cutter, etc......) is a priority. Phil has an aptitude for pitching - he may not have command of the change now, but I believe that will come as he throws it more. As he throws it more, he will have increased command and with that comes increased confidence. When next we see Phil in New York, he's going to be a much more polished pitcher. I think it's imperative that he stay down in AAA for a couple of months at least - if a pitcher is needed for whatever reason, call up Aceves or Kennedy.
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
This has probably been covered by why did he scrap the slider?
Baseball is life;
the rest is just details.
Just wasn't a good pitch.
Plain and simple.
In general, isn't it difficult to throw both a slider AND a curve?
Since the curve developed into a plus pitch, the decision to scrap the slider made a lot of sense.
Plus arm/elbow stress.
The fifth starter spot no longer exists, because Sidney Ponson ate it.
Proud member of the Moose Apologists.
Not everyone has that problem, but Hughes himself said he has a problem throwing both (Joba for instance looks to be OK with throwing both). FB, curve, change is all he needs to be very good.
Calmer than you are.
I'm not trying to be stupid, I honestly don't know the answer. Why is it so important to have a good change as part of Phil's repertoire? I understand the need for a 3rd pitch, but what makes the change-up so important?
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
It is a simple yet effective pitch. If thrown correctly it is the best secondary pitch in baseball. If you hang a slider it is just a 80 mph fastball that the hitter more often than not will smack, same for a curve and every other pitch that relys on movement. Even if you leave a change in the middle of the plate, if the hitter isnt tipped off or guessing there is still a good chance the change in speed will fool him enough to make weak contact.
That makes a lot of sense - thanks!
I do like watching a good change (Edwar's is cool and CC threw a really good one a couple of days ago), but my fav pitch is the curve - a good one is a thing of beauty.
Hughes Rules: Pleading the Fifth
I don't know why everyone is jumping on Javy. As soon as I heard Phil dropped the slider the first thing I thought/posted was that he needs to throw his changeup more. The cutter is a good pitch to have in your arsenal, but the change is an extremely effective pitch.
The coming of The Carpenter.
“I love to hit. I want to hit .300, .400, .500. I just love to hit.”
I think everyone can agree - in terms of the completion of his development - the changeup is the most important pitch for Phil this year.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
Hughes's changeup has always been "good if he can command it", but every time I saw him throw it, it would always be like 5 inches to the right of the plate. I can't imagine the layoff helped that. Hopefully the new grip and steady work will change that.
I feel like grip work for a pitcher is like a golfer changing his grip.... you just have to get comfortable, plain and simple. hopefully phil figures it out, he's looked good.
New York Yankees
Volume XXVIII
MICHAEL
Comeback tunes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvhhW...eature=related
Yeah, pretty much.
But then unless your name is Tiger Woods you probably won't change your grip and then play competitively right away. So I think Hughes himself is expecting to head back to the minors for the bulk of 2009.
It's funny that he may turn into a No.3 starter. And last few years lots of people ripped the "prospect guru" when they said Hughes is a No.2 starter.
Just to add to this. Another reason the changeup is so effective is its trajectory is nearly identical to the fastball so batters can't be tipped off until it begins to drop (hopefully) just in front of the plate. By then the batters might already be swinging in front of it.
Even the best curveballs have a hump to its trajectory and in Hughes' case the hump was so big batters knew what they were facing well before it got to the plate.
A bad changeup without movement though is just a slow fastball and has probably the highest HR rate in the majors right up there with the fastball.
Easy to say now when he gets injured two years in a row and loses velocity on his fastball.
He was a 20 year old with a 92-95 fastball, a great curve, a developing changeup, and 55% GB rate. He very well may have been a better prospect at 20 than David Price is now at 23.
He needs some more steady work before we can really assess where he is now.
Santana's changeup doesn't have any extra movement, and he does well enough with it. Movement is nice, but only if you don't sacrifice the fundamental things on a change.A bad changeup without movement though is just a slow fastball and has probably the highest HR rate in the majors right up there with the fastball.
Johan's changeup, especially relative to his fastball, drops like a hammer and and even has a tail to it. It doesn't move as much as a typical palmball but Johan's changeup definitely has quite a bit of movement.
I agree though, fundamentally the changeup derives most of its effectiveness from messing up the batter's timing. Johan's is just a relatively bad example.
Still though, a changeup left up in the zone is routinely smashed even if the batter is fooled by the speed at first. I dont' have data on hand right now, but I am 100% sure the changeup has the second highest slugging, HR%, and BA against just behind the fastball.
To be honest, I think he is our future ace at that time too. I just think that it's interesting when I look back.
No, it doesn't.
http://baseball.bornbybits.com/2008/Johan_Santana.html
There is a small 2 inch drop according to that, HOWEVER, I believe someone here actually mentioned he occasionally drops down and so that accounts for skewing the average on the pitch F/x data. Really, his fastball and change are very close in terms of movement.
I am surprised to see that but I guess all those times I've seen him bury it in the dirt has clouded my perception.
I stand totally corrected.
Guess I should stick to my day job. Off to Atlantic City I go to take some money from tourists.
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