Here's a Deal That Cash Could Make

[sjb23]

I think Delmon Young of the Twins is available. He had a nice rookie season with the Rays in 2007, but struggled with the Twins. I guess he had some sort of discipline issue in the past, and his character may be in question because of it, but the guy looks like a five-tool player to me.

How about Nady, Cabrera/Gardner, and Ian Kennedy for Young, and he plays CF this year? If Austin Jackson is ready to take over in CF in 2010, Young can easily slide over to a corner outfield spot.

Would the Twins be interested? Is it a fair deal? The Twins get one guaranteed season from Nady, who can play a corner OF spot for them. They get a good inexpensive 4th outfielder in Cabrera/Gardner for the next few years, and they get a potential #4 starter in Kennedy.

The Yankees get a cost-controlled young athlete who can play a big role in 2009. They give up a guy they're not going to re-sign after this year, a 4th outfielder, and a potential #4 starter. I think Young has enough "up-side" to perhaps give up a little too much on the front end. But all three players are expendable, and Young would solidfy the CF spot and Gardner/Cabrera's role as a fourth outfielder.

Opinions?

[jobasfistpump62]

I would never make that deal. Young has shown no power, no patience, and is bad in the outfield. I guess he's a clubhouse problem too.

[themgmt]

He could also trade Joba Hughes and Cano for Willy Taveras

[DaSh 1s]

I think Delmon Young of the Twins is available. He had a nice rookie season with the Rays in 2007, but struggled with the Twins. I guess he had some sort of discipline issue in the past, and his character may be in question because of it, but the guy looks like a five-tool player to me.

How about Nady, Cabrera/Gardner, and Ian Kennedy for Young, and he plays CF this year? If Austin Jackson is ready to take over in CF in 2010, Young can easily slide over to a corner outfield spot.

Would the Twins be interested? Is it a fair deal? The Twins get one guaranteed season from Nady, who can play a corner OF spot for them. They get a good inexpensive 4th outfielder in Cabrera/Gardner for the next few years, and they get a potential #4 starter in Kennedy.

The Yankees get a cost-controlled young athlete who can play a big role in 2009. They give up a guy they're not going to re-sign after this year, a 4th outfielder, and a potential #4 starter. I think Young has enough "up-side" to perhaps give up a little too much on the front end. But all three players are expendable, and Young would solidfy the CF spot and Gardner/Cabrera's role as a fourth outfielder.

Opinions?

There is not a chance in hell the Twins would even sniff this trade. This would be the ultimate sell low.

[DiMaggio5CF]

There is not a chance in hell the Twins would even sniff this trade. This would be the ultimate sell low.

I agree. They're also getting a whole bunch of nothing in the deal.

[MaximMan121]

I would never make that deal. Young has shown no power, no patience, and is bad in the outfield. I guess he's a clubhouse problem too.

.......we give up basically nothing in this deal.

We get an absolutely solid youngster. If you've really given up on Delmon Young already, think again. None of the named players have much of a role on this team--unless it's Nady as an expensive bench player.

[Matsui55]

I think Delmon Young of the Twins is available. He had a nice rookie season with the Rays in 2007, but struggled with the Twins. I guess he had some sort of discipline issue in the past, and his character may be in question because of it, but the guy looks like a five-tool player to me.

How about Nady, Cabrera/Gardner, and Ian Kennedy for Young, and he plays CF this year? If Austin Jackson is ready to take over in CF in 2010, Young can easily slide over to a corner outfield spot.

Would the Twins be interested? Is it a fair deal? The Twins get one guaranteed season from Nady, who can play a corner OF spot for them. They get a good inexpensive 4th outfielder in Cabrera/Gardner for the next few years, and they get a potential #4 starter in Kennedy.

The Yankees get a cost-controlled young athlete who can play a big role in 2009. They give up a guy they're not going to re-sign after this year, a 4th outfielder, and a potential #4 starter. I think Young has enough "up-side" to perhaps give up a little too much on the front end. But all three players are expendable, and Young would solidfy the CF spot and Gardner/Cabrera's role as a fourth outfielder.

Opinions?

This makes no sense. The Twins have a glut of CF and OF- yet you expect them to take ANOTHER CF (with no upside, ignoring the fact that Gomez is much superior to Melky) and another OF (they have a glut of righty corner OF types already), plus a #5 SP (at best), for a guy with upside?

If Cashman even dared to make this offer (and he wouldn't), he would lose all credibility with the Twins. A GM can't afford to burn bridges with other teams- unlike sports radio fans and internet wish lists, GMs have to live in a world where the other 29 GMs can make or break you- you get on someone's bad side by offering insulting deals can make it harder to make deals when you need to later.

[jobasfistpump62]

.......we give up basically nothing in this deal.

We get an absolutely solid youngster. If you've really given up on Delmon Young already, think again. None of the named players have much of a role on this team--unless it's Nady as an expensive bench player.

Kennedy can still be a good pitcher. He's young and could help this season. I don't think Melky is anything, but I think Gardner can be a very good defensive center fielder. That's all we really need this year. Nady will get at least 300 at bats and that's at the very least. He will fetch 1 or 2 draft picks at the end of the year. I'd take the picks.

Young has been a major disappointment. He doesn't get on base and he's actually been out-slugged by Derek Jeter every year he's been in the league.

[ajra21]

I think Delmon Young of the Twins is available. He had a nice rookie season with the Rays in 2007, but struggled with the Twins. I guess he had some sort of discipline issue in the past, and his character may be in question because of it, but the guy looks like a five-tool player to me.

How about Nady, Cabrera/Gardner, and Ian Kennedy for Young, and he plays CF this year? If Austin Jackson is ready to take over in CF in 2010, Young can easily slide over to a corner outfield spot.

Would the Twins be interested? Is it a fair deal? The Twins get one guaranteed season from Nady, who can play a corner OF spot for them. They get a good inexpensive 4th outfielder in Cabrera/Gardner for the next few years, and they get a potential #4 starter in Kennedy.

The Yankees get a cost-controlled young athlete who can play a big role in 2009. They give up a guy they're not going to re-sign after this year, a 4th outfielder, and a potential #4 starter. I think Young has enough "up-side" to perhaps give up a little too much on the front end. But all three players are expendable, and Young would solidfy the CF spot and Gardner/Cabrera's role as a fourth outfielder.

Opinions?

he could also trade joba for mike cameron.

[Mr.Muhozi]

if this deal was made, cash would go down as a god, but i doubt the twins would even consider it

[sjb23]

It seems that the general consensus thinks the Yanks aren't giving up much and the Twins would never do this.

They've already made it known that with their abundance of outfielders, Young is expendable. In my mind, the deal is really Young for Kennedy, with one year of Nady's bat and a solid, low cost 4th outfielder as throw-ins. If you had an outfielder that you feel is talented but expendable, wouldn't you be interested in swapping him for a young, cost-controlled starting pitcher that projects to be a solid #4 or #5 in your rotation for the next few years? Since Young has more potential and therefore more value than Kennedy, obtaining Nady evens the score a little bit. He would play a corner outfield spot over Jason Kubel, who would then become the everyday DH. Nady provides a much-needed bat in the middle of their lineup, and will put up better numbers than Young did in 2008. Cabreras or Gardner serve as possible replacements for Nady in 2010, when he becomes a free agent. But if the Twins aren't interested in Cabrera or Gardner, perhaps we can offer some middle relievers, like Jose Veras or Edwin Ramirez or Dan Greise - heck, give the Twins two out of those three.

In my opinion, the Twins get the better of this proposed deal -- which I don't mind, if I'm Cashman, as long as it makes the team better.

Delmon Young > Cabrera or Gardner in CF in 2009

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

It seems that the general consensus thinks the Yanks aren't giving up much and the Twins would never do this.

They've already made it known that with their abundance of outfielders, Young is expendable. In my mind, the deal is really Young for Kennedy, with one year of Nady's bat and a solid, low cost 4th outfielder as throw-ins. If you had an outfielder that you feel is talented but expendable, wouldn't you be interested in swapping him for a young, cost-controlled starting pitcher that projects to be a solid #4 or #5 in your rotation for the next few years? Since Young has more potential and therefore more value than Kennedy, obtaining Nady evens the score a little bit. He would play a corner outfield spot over Jason Kubel, who would then become the everyday DH. Nady provides a much-needed bat in the middle of their lineup, and will put up better numbers than Young did in 2008. Cabreras or Gardner serve as possible replacements for Nady in 2010, when he becomes a free agent. But if the Twins aren't interested in Cabrera or Gardner, perhaps we can offer some middle relievers, like Jose Veras or Edwin Ramirez or Dan Greise - heck, give the Twins two out of those three.

In my opinion, the Twins get the better of this proposed deal -- which I don't mind, if I'm Cashman, as long as it makes the team better.

Delmon Young > Cabrera or Gardner in CF in 2009

You are both arguing that Young is expendable, because the Twins have an abundance of OFs, and that there is some rationale for why they should take two OFs from us. There's no way that Young gets traded for someone without the potential to be a very good player -- and we know that the Twins weren't so high on Kennedy and Cabrera last year, and I don't think those players have done anything to increase their value since then. Adding in a middle reliever isn't going to change that equation.

[YESSIR!]

Can Young really play CF? I didn't think he was all that mobile.

Kennedy, Nady, and a couple more young arms would be a more appealing deal to the Twins, I'd imagine.

[ieddyi]

This makes no sense. The Twins have a glut of CF and OF- yet you expect them to take ANOTHER CF (with no upside, ignoring the fact that Gomez is much superior to Melky) and another OF (they have a glut of righty corner OF types already), plus a #5 SP (at best), for a guy with upside?

If Cashman even dared to make this offer (and he wouldn't), he would lose all credibility with the Twins. A GM can't afford to burn bridges with other teams- unlike sports radio fans and internet wish lists, GMs have to live in a world where the other 29 GMs can make or break you- you get on someone's bad side by offering insulting deals can make it harder to make deals when you need to later.

Well, keep in mind how the Twins GM dealt with us during the Santana negotiations. Screwed us around and ended up accepting a much less valuable package from the Mutts

[MaximMan121]

Kennedy can still be a good pitcher. He's young and could help this season. I don't think Melky is anything, but I think Gardner can be a very good defensive center fielder. That's all we really need this year. Nady will get at least 300 at bats and that's at the very least. He will fetch 1 or 2 draft picks at the end of the year. I'd take the picks.

Young has been a major disappointment. He doesn't get on base and he's actually been out-slugged by Derek Jeter every year he's been in the league.

Yeesh. Really, man? He's 24. Gardner would be the player of last resort--that guy you desperately hope you don't have to play, except Melky takes that spot. Both of these players have no business being on the Yankees.

Delmon Young's OPS+ last year = 102. Melky's highest ever (2006) is 95, and last year he clocked in at 65.

Kennedy can be a good pitcher, sure. Delmon Young was the #1 prospect in major league baseball. His stock has fallen, sure, but that means he's still a solid regular in CF with an elite upside.

Regardless, you can couch this however you want--this trade would never, ever happen. To try and label that package on the Yanks part as fair for the Twins is laughable.

[MaximMan121]

It seems that the general consensus thinks the Yanks aren't giving up much and the Twins would never do this.

They've already made it known that with their abundance of outfielders, Young is expendable. In my mind, the deal is really Young for Kennedy, with one year of Nady's bat and a solid, low cost 4th outfielder as throw-ins. If you had an outfielder that you feel is talented but expendable, wouldn't you be interested in swapping him for a young, cost-controlled starting pitcher that projects to be a solid #4 or #5 in your rotation for the next few years? Since Young has more potential and therefore more value than Kennedy, obtaining Nady evens the score a little bit. He would play a corner outfield spot over Jason Kubel, who would then become the everyday DH. Nady provides a much-needed bat in the middle of their lineup, and will put up better numbers than Young did in 2008. Cabreras or Gardner serve as possible replacements for Nady in 2010, when he becomes a free agent. But if the Twins aren't interested in Cabrera or Gardner, perhaps we can offer some middle relievers, like Jose Veras or Edwin Ramirez or Dan Greise - heck, give the Twins two out of those three.

In my opinion, the Twins get the better of this proposed deal -- which I don't mind, if I'm Cashman, as long as it makes the team better.

Delmon Young > Cabrera or Gardner in CF in 2009

Yes, I think that given the way the Twins have talked about Delmon, he's available. I don't think they're motivated to move him for anything like that package, though. They'd basically have gone from Garza to garbage.

[THEBOSS84]

There was a thread about trading for Delmon Young in ITL2.

[The PRO]

No! Cashman would not make a deal like this.

[MaximMan121]

No! Cashman would not make a deal like this.

[sjb23]

Yes, I think that given the way the Twins have talked about Delmon, he's available. I don't think they're motivated to move him for anything like that package, though. They'd basically have gone from Garza to garbage.

So now Kennedy is garbage? There seems to be quite a variance of opinion as to what Ian Kennedy really is. To me, he's definitely not "gargbage" -- not the way he's dominated the lower minor leagues. I believe that he projects as a #4 or #5 starter -- which is a commodity that any playoff-contending team needs.

So now Nady is garbage? The hole Nady fills in the Twins lineup might just play a part in whether the twins go to the playoffs -- they need more offense in their lineup, and Nady almost assuredly gives them better numbers than Delmon Young.

Cabrera, Gardner, and the mentioned relievers are hardly "garbage" either. Every team needs a dependable fourth outfielder, and there's always a need for middle relievers.

I believe you might be underestimating the value (to the Twins) of the proposed package, as well as possibly overrating Delmon Young, who has been labeled disappointing and expendable by the Twins organization.

I just think the guy is a better solution in CF for 2009 than Melky or Gardner. If he has a good season, the Yanks can consider signing him for 22010 and moving him to a corner outfielder spot depending on A.J.'s progression.

[Jeter Kid]

It was Delmon who tossed his bat at the umpire after being ejected in the minors, right?

[THEBOSS84]

It was Delmon who tossed his bat at the umpire after being ejected in the minors, right?

Sure was.

[sjb23]

It was Delmon who tossed his bat at the umpire after being ejected in the minors, right?

For this he is labeled for life?

[jonesey202]

It was Delmon who tossed his bat at the umpire after being ejected in the minors, right?

yup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCX_XlRYYDo

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

I would never make that deal. Young has shown no power, no patience, and is bad in the outfield. I guess he's a clubhouse problem too.

Yes, this basically. And in what world could he possibly play CF when he is a absolutely terrible corner OFer?

[MaximMan121]

So now Kennedy is garbage? There seems to be quite a variance of opinion as to what Ian Kennedy really is. To me, he's definitely not "gargbage" -- not the way he's dominated the lower minor leagues. I believe that he projects as a #4 or #5 starter -- which is a commodity that any playoff-contending team needs.

So now Nady is garbage? The hole Nady fills in the Twins lineup might just play a part in whether the twins go to the playoffs -- they need more offense in their lineup, and Nady almost assuredly gives them better numbers than Delmon Young.

Cabrera, Gardner, and the mentioned relievers are hardly "garbage" either. Every team needs a dependable fourth outfielder, and there's always a need for middle relievers.

I believe you might be underestimating the value (to the Twins) of the proposed package, as well as possibly overrating Delmon Young, who has been labeled disappointing and expendable by the Twins organization.

I just think the guy is a better solution in CF for 2009 than Melky or Gardner. If he has a good season, the Yanks can consider signing him for 22010 and moving him to a corner outfielder spot depending on A.J.'s progression.

Compared to Delmon Young, all of those players are garbage.

That's not to say they're not useful players. But we're talking #1 pick in all of baseball, to #1 prospect in all of baseball. He is 23 years old, and has played two full seasons in the majors.

His stock is undoubtedly lower than it once was. But the same can be said of Kennedy (and he wasn't ever on that sort of plateau). Nady is not much better than league average offensively, and is less than league average defensively, in a corner outfield position, and he's expensive (and soon to be moreso). Gardner is a throw in, in this proposition. He's not as good of a player as any of the previously discussed 3, and he's not in the same galaxy as delmon young.

Don't argue semantics on this. Again--this isn't really an argument. The Twins GM would hang up on Cashman if he heard this offer. Unless he felt like laughing first.

Moreover, the Twins are up against 3 superior teams--Indians, Tigers and White Sox, in the playoff picture. That's not to say they can't make it, just to say it's unlikely. The changes they need to make extend a lot further than swapping out Young for Nady.

[Melan-cynic]

I wouldn't mind picking up Young when his value is so low, but that swing of his is just god awful and shows no sign of changing. This is the reason for power drought.

[THEBOSS84]

I wouldn't mind picking up Young when his value is so low, but that swing of his is just god awful and shows no sign of changing. This is the reason for power drought.

This is how I feel too. It's just a matter of how low the Twins would sell him.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Compared to Delmon Young, all of those players are garbage.

That's not to say they're not useful players. But we're talking #1 pick in all of baseball, to #1 prospect in all of baseball. He is 23 years old, and has played two full seasons in the majors.

His stock is undoubtedly lower than it once was. But the same can be said of Kennedy (and he wasn't ever on that sort of plateau). Nady is not much better than league average offensively, and is less than league average defensively, in a corner outfield position, and he's expensive (and soon to be moreso). Gardner is a throw in, in this proposition. He's not as good of a player as any of the previously discussed 3, and he's not in the same galaxy as delmon young.

Don't argue semantics on this. Again--this isn't really an argument. The Twins GM would hang up on Cashman if he heard this offer. Unless he felt like laughing first.

Moreover, the Twins are up against 3 superior teams--Indians, Tigers and White Sox, in the playoff picture. That's not to say they can't make it, just to say it's unlikely. The changes they need to make extend a lot further than swapping out Young for Nady.

Delmon Young doesn't play CF and when he did for 30 games his UZR was -39/per 150. .

Also Nady is average-above average both offensively and defensively. These are two things that Delmon Young is not, right now Nady is the superior player. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue otherwise.

Moreover, the problem with Delmon is that he is terrible defensively and as it stands right now he is below average offensively. I'm all for trading him if you want to put him in the minors, but right now he has no place on the roster.

[MaximMan121]

Delmon Young doesn't play CF and when he did for 30 games his UZR was -39/per 150. .

Also Nady is average-above average both offensively and defensively. These are two things that Delmon Young is not, right now Nady is the superior player. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue otherwise.

Moreover, the problem with Delmon is that he is terrible defensively and as it stands right now he is below average offensively. I'm all for trading him if you want to put him in the minors, but right now he has no place on the roster.

Meh. I'm at work, and didn't dig deep enough. I suppose you're right on the "right now" comment.

I would still happily put Delmon in LF, Damon at CF and Swisher in RF, based on my belief that we've seen Nady's ceiling and it isn't that great, whereas Young could be a monster. I've railed against arguments like this in the past--but I think that the lineup can be sustained by the sum of the rest of the parts of the team--when people said that about Melky I called them nuts, because the upside was almost nothing.

The upside with Delmon Young is enormous.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

If Delmon was a hard worker, good listener, good attitude, and an adequate to good defender, I'd agree with you, but right now I really don't want him, he is too big of a question mark on both sides of the ball for a championship caliber team.

Oh yeah, not to mention we'd go from a very strong defensive OF to a very poor one in that alignment you mentioned. I really want good-great OF defense for once.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/ind...n-youngs-power

[Fabien Brandy]

On December 5th:

Asked Thursday about the Twins' crowded outfield, manager Ron Gardenhire replied that Michael Cuddyer, Carlos Gomez and Denard Span "have to play every day" while Delmon Young is merely "in the mix." - per Rotoworld

It appears that the Twins are seeking players at SS or 3B and have absolutely no need for OFers. According to Fangraphs.com, Young was -17 in LF, which would make him awful in CF.

I think Delmon Young would be a nice guy to buy low on in the right situation, but the Yankees can't reconfigure their entire team or completely give up on defense just to force a fit.

[TheInfallibleOne]

Peter Griffin: Like that time I got that offer from Helen Hunt.
Flashback
Helen Hunt: You wanna have sex?

Peter Griffin: Nohohoho. Noooo. No.

[flymick24]

he's still really young with a lot of potential, but the fact that two teams have now given up on him so soon really raises red flags to me