The Official 2009 New York Jets Thread

[Melan-cynic]

Namath was not the best QB of all time but he is a lot better than Mecca and many with the same line of thinking would have you believe. He did win 2 MVP's, a super bowl MVP, made the pro bowl several times, gameplanned/won the most important Super Bowl in NFL history and - like dabomb intelligently explained - he was a gunslinger back in the day when west coast offenses and spread formations hadn't even been imagined yet. He was pretty good at Alabama too.

Finally, his career numbers would look a lot different had he not succumbed to countless knee injuries and the subsequent knee surgeries. He was an incredible athlete and one of the games first and most gifted scramblers. Back in those days teams didn't gameplan for the Jets, they gameplanned for Namath.

But I guess you could ignore the era he played in and just look at his TD:INT ratio if you think that's how you evaluate a QB's value. In John Elway's first 10 years in the league he had a ratio of 158 touchdowns and 157 interceptions. He must've stunk.

[JeffWeaverFan]

How is Namath overrated? People have to remember how the QB position was played back in that era...especially the AFL. There was no West Coast offense...QB's didnt dink and dunk there way down the field. No "Chad Pennington" routes.

Namath aired that sucker down the field all the time. And so did many QB's of that era. This is why there completion % was much lower then today's QB's and why they also threw more INT's. More deep passes...much more risk taking.

Well I guess it depends on how highly he's rated. Anyways, I'll take your word for it.

[BronxYanks45]

big win for the Jets!!!!

undefeated!!!! 2-0

[GordonGecko]

big win for the Jets!!!!

undefeated!!!! 2-0

After week 1 people said, well the Texans aren't really that good. Yesterday the Texans crushed the Titans, so Rex Ryan is doing something right.

[Melan-cynic]

After week 1 people said, well the Texans aren't really that good. Yesterday the Texans crushed the Buccaneers, so Rex Ryan is doing something right.

The Texans didn't play Tampa yesterday... They beat the Titans 34-31, but yes, Rex is doing a lot right.

[GordonGecko]

The Texans didn't play Tampa yesterday... They beat the Titans 34-31, but yes, Rex is doing a lot right.

Yeah Tennessee, mind fart. I fixed the post

[genius-24]

Seriously, I really dislike when Pats* fans on this site act like Jets fans aren't allowed to be happy about our team/wins. It's really obnoxious. The Jets look good this year. They have potential to be a good team. Why shouldn't we be allowed to enjoy it? It's rude and it's trolling. Rhody, you are better than this.

As for the Giants, there is ZERO rivalry between the Jets/Giants. ZERO. I like the Giants and I root for them and there are several Giants fans in this thread who rooted for the Jets today. There is no animosity between the fanbases (at least, I personally have yet to see any).

This.
I like both teams. Giants just a bit more.

But currently, Jets have NY's spotlight anyway u slice it. Introdution of Rex, Mark and now 2-0 season when many thought they were going to be 0-4.

let's drink on this

[RhodyYanksFan]

What happened, you took the Patriots and the over?

Yes.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

Watching this defense is awesome. For YEARS we Jet fans have been desperate for a run stuffing defense that's going to attack and not react. And Revis, this guy is amazing. There are maybe 4 shut down cb's in the whole NFL and we have one of them. How great is that.

[Snatch Catch]

Watching this defense is awesome. For YEARS we Jet fans have been desperate for a run stuffing defense that's going to attack and not react. And Revis, this guy is amazing. There are maybe 4 shut down cb's in the whole NFL and we have one of them. How great is that.

Apologies to dabomb if this has already been rehashed, but I went back to the archives to take a look at the 2007 draft reaction, and found this awesome back and forth.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=101972&page=5

Start at post #148 and continue from there.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Amazing game.

Holy christ was I drunk the whole time. My friends bought me a Sanchez jersey for my BDay yesterday. After the first couple drives, I was thinking they jinxed it

[Melan-cynic]

Apologies to dabomb if this has already been rehashed, but I went back to the archives to take a look at the 2007 draft reaction, and found this awesome back and forth.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=101972&page=5

Start at post #148 and continue from there.

Great stuff.

This was one of the highlights:

I still say Revis is going to be awful. I watched a lot of Pitt football games and he didn't impress me whatsoever. Please do not think this is just because I cheer for an AFC East team. If you note the draft thread we had I was praying that we didn't take Revis.

Revis is going to make Ahmad Carroll look like the second coming of Champ Bailey, IMO.

On the other hand RIYankee comes out looking like Mel Kiper:
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=261 and http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=263

[JeffWeaverFan]

Apologies to dabomb if this has already been rehashed, but I went back to the archives to take a look at the 2007 draft reaction, and found this awesome back and forth.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...=101972&page=5

Start at post #148 and continue from there.

Well I was right to like the Revis and Harris picks (of course I was just basing that on experts and figuring Mangini would know a good DB if he saw one), but saying the Patriots did a bad job trading with the 49ers because the 49ers would be better in 2008 wasn't too great of a prediction.

[tdel23]

Very impressed with the Jets so far, I though they would be 0-2 at this point.

As I Giants fan I agree with most of the other Giants fans in here that have NO ill will towards the Jets. I was rooting hard for them yesterday.

So is there any worry how Sanchez will be able to throw the ball in the Giants Stadium wind? Seems like he throws a real tight spiral so I don't think it will effect him as much.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Very impressed with the Jets so far, I though they would be 0-2 at this point.

As I Giants fan I agree with most of the other Giants fans in here that have NO ill will towards the Jets. I was rooting hard for them yesterday.

So is there any worry how Sanchez will be able to throw the ball in the Giants Stadium wind? Seems like he throws a real tight spiral so I don't think it will effect him as much.

I don't understand why ANY Giants fan would have ill will feelings towards the Jets. I know a lot of people that cheer just as hard against them as they would against Dallas or Philly. Several guys I work with are like this & I just don't get it. Aside from playing in the same stadium....what's there to really dislike? We never play each other, players never talk about each other...I just don't get the hatred some people have.

[tdel23]

I don't understand why ANY Giants fan would have ill will feelings towards the Jets. I know a lot of people that cheer just as hard against them as they would against Dallas or Philly. Several guys I work with are like this & I just don't get it. Aside from playing in the same stadium....what's there to really dislike? We never play each other, players never talk about each other...I just don't get the hatred some people have.

totally agree with you...only time i root against the Jets is random year when they play the Giants.

[Melan-cynic]

I don't root for the Giants but I don't root against them either. Waste of energy.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

I was definitely wrong about Revis and I'll be the first to admit it.

[LongLiveBernie51!]

I must admit that I thought Sanchez was a bit over hyped coming out of the draft but after seeing him in the second half of the game yesterday, I am a believer.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

Namath was not the best QB of all time but he is a lot better than Mecca and many with the same line of thinking would have you believe. He did win 2 MVP's, a super bowl MVP, made the pro bowl several times, gameplanned/won the most important Super Bowl in NFL history and - like dabomb intelligently explained - he was a gunslinger back in the day when west coast offenses and spread formations hadn't even been imagined yet. He was pretty good at Alabama too.

Finally, his career numbers would look a lot different had he not succumbed to countless knee injuries and the subsequent knee surgeries. He was an incredible athlete and one of the games first and most gifted scramblers. Back in those days teams didn't gameplan for the Jets, they gameplanned for Namath.

But I guess you could ignore the era he played in and just look at his TD:INT ratio if you think that's how you evaluate a QB's value. In John Elway's first 10 years in the league he had a ratio of 158 touchdowns and 157 interceptions. He must've stunk.

143 GP, 27663 yards, 50.1 completion%, 173 TDs and 220 INTS. Yes he was a gunslinger but he threw 47 more INTs than TDs. He only completed half of his attempts as a pro. He averaged 193 yards a game passing. I respect many of the opinions but looking at the stats, he just isn't the incredible QB that he is credited as being. I'm definitely not the first person to have said he is the most overrated QB in the HOF.

[CanoForPresident]

I must admit that I thought Sanchez was a bit over hyped coming out of the draft but after seeing him in the second half of the game yesterday, I am a believer.

He'll make a believer out of everyone soon enough.

I'm impressed with how hes made what looks like a pretty seamless transition from College to the NFL. I thought he'd struggle out the gate but he looks like a seasoned vet.

[Mark19]

If Revis can continue to shut down everyone's top receiver, the Jets will have a decent shot at any one.

[Melan-cynic]

143 GP, 27663 yards, 50.1 completion%, 173 TDs and 220 INTS. Yes he was a gunslinger but he threw 47 more INTs than TDs. He only completed half of his attempts as a pro. He averaged 193 yards a game passing. I respect many of the opinions but looking at the stats, he just isn't the incredible QB that he is credited as being. I'm definitely not the first person to have said he is the most overrated QB in the HOF.

And you're still missing the point about where the passing game was at at that time. A 50% completion percentage was very, very good back then and he had a 4000 yard season before his knee got crushed by the Bills a few years later. A 4000 yard season was unheard of in that era. That's the point, you are failing to put his stats into context. Particularly when you fail to see that the entire burden of winning or losing games fell on his right arm. He never had the big time weapons to lean on, much less a pair of healthy legs to stand on.

He also played in the Shea Stadium wind tunnel. If you think the Meadowlands is bad....that's nothing.

For years he was the AFL. Ask anyone who saw him actually play.

No one's arguing he is among the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean you're not underselling him by calling him overrated. It's an easy argument to present but that doesn't make it correct.

[CallOfTheCrow]

So apparently the Niners filed tampering charges against the Jets in regards to Crabtree.

[Melan-cynic]

Yup and I like it. Go after anything that makes your team better.

[YankeeFaninATL]

Man Genius fined a Brown $1700 for taking a 3 dollar bottle water out of a hotel mini bar. Be thankful you do not have that control freak anymore.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

Man Genius fined a Brown $1700 for taking a 3 dollar bottle water out of a hotel mini bar. Be thankful you do not have that control freak anymore.

How about fining him...$3. Or not worrying about a $3 charge.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

And you're still missing the point about where the passing game was at at that time. A 50% completion percentage was very, very good back then and he had a 4000 yard season before his knee got crushed by the Bills a few years later. A 4000 yard season was unheard of in that era. That's the point, you are failing to put his stats into context. Particularly when you fail to see that the entire burden of winning or losing games fell on his right arm. He never had the big time weapons to lean on, much less a pair of healthy legs to stand on.

He also played in the Shea Stadium wind tunnel. If you think the Meadowlands is bad....that's nothing.

For years he was the AFL. Ask anyone who saw him actually play.

No one's arguing he is among the best QB's to ever play the game, but that doesn't mean you're not underselling him by calling him overrated. It's an easy argument to present but that doesn't make it correct.

A 4000 yard season was unheard of but he did it once. I get he did some good things but I just don't think he deserves all the praise he gets. Compare him and his stats to Griese, Tarkenton, Staubach, Jurgenson, and Dawson. He doesn't match up in my opinion. I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine so I'll leave it at that.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Man Genius fined a Brown $1700 for taking a 3 dollar bottle water out of a hotel mini bar. Be thankful you do not have that control freak anymore.

Not that it isn't stupid but he fined him 1700 because the player refused to pay the hotel for the bottle of water.

[Melan-cynic]

A 4000 yard season was unheard of but he did it once. I get he did some good things but I just don't think he deserves all the praise he gets. Compare him and his stats to Griese, Tarkenton, Staubach, Jurgenson, and Dawson.

Um, of course he only threw for 4,000 yards once. If he had done it five times it wouldn't have been an "unheard of" feat. That was the idea.

Guess how many of those guys [Griese, Tarkenton, Staubach, Jurgenson, and Dawson] had 4,000 yard seasons in their career. Zero, nada, none. Which is why it was unheard in the 1960s to throw for that many yards and why it seems you miss the point that during his prime Namath had to throw for more yards than a Griese or Staubach or Dawson or most NFL QB's if the Jets wanted to win.

Not one of those guys had the arm, pure passing ability combined with the athleticism/evasiveness of Namath. That's what made him great. Had he stayed healthy he could've become a Unitas with legs.

But yes, we can agree to disagree and that's all I'll say.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

Um, of course he only threw for 4,000 yards once. If he had done it five times it wouldn't have been an "unheard of" feat. That was the idea.

Guess how many of those guys [Griese, Tarkenton, Staubach, Jurgenson, and Dawson] had 4,000 yard seasons. Zero, nada, none. Hence, why it was unheard of to throw for that many yards and hence why you miss the point that during his prime Namath had to throw for many more yards than a Griese or Staubach or Dawson or most NFL QB's. That is, if they wanted to win.

But yes, we can agree to disagree and that's all I'll say.

One 4000 yard season doesn't make you a Hall of Famer is what I was saying. Those other guys produced consistently.

[Melan-cynic]

One 4000 yard season doesn't make you a Hall of Famer is what I was saying. Those other guys produced consistently.

You're arguing against something I never said though.

I said a QB throwing for 4000 yards was unheard of in those days. And I backed up why.

My point was not that you're crazy to say he doesn't belong in the HOF. I do however strongly disagree with someone referring to Namath as "overrated" because it's the vogue thing to do instead of actually understanding what made him great.

[BillBuckner]

Ladies and gentleman, we have ourselves a defense.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Sanchez was voted Pepsi Rookie of the Week

[Melan-cynic]

Ladies and gentleman, we have ourselves a defense.

Amen. I know Jets fans who don't know what to do with themselves. It's ok to be confident.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Can't wait until Pace is back.

[Melan-cynic]

Can't wait until Pace is back.

Yup.

Then Gholston can get back to being a ghost on the bench instead of on the field.

[dabomb2045]

Great stuff.

This was one of the highlights:




On the other hand RIYankee comes out looking like Mel Kiper:
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=261 and http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=263

Yeah I admit I was dead wrong on Revis. A plate of crow that I am very glad to eat.

[DrNick]

Loved Rex Ryans comments about the claims by the 49ers that the Jets tampered with Crabtree

[Melan-cynic]

Loved Rex Ryans comments about the claims by the 49ers that the Jets tampered with Crabtree

Especially when he told Mike&Mike "I wish we played them," in response to Frisco's whining over Crabtree tampering.

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

I can't even imagine what the tampering could be.

"Wait until next year, and maybe you'll drop low enough so we can draft you!"

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

It's ok to be confident.

I was confident at 8-3.

It's never ok to be confident.

[Melan-cynic]

I can't even imagine what the tampering could be.

"Wait until next year, and maybe you'll drop low enough so we can draft you!"

Naw. The tampering most likely was, "Hey Mike, just so you know, we are very interested in trading for you if you can 'Jay Cutler' yourself out of San Fran."

[Melan-cynic]

Good article on the Jets' best player:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/22/sp...?_r=1&src=tptw

[dabomb2045]

I was confident at 8-3.

It's never ok to be confident.

I take some solace in the fact that it wasnt the Jets that choked last year (as the case could be made in several previous years)....Favre got hurt and that just killed the team. If he stayed healthy, the Jets at the very minimum get a wild card berth.

[JeffWeaverFan]

I take some solace in the fact that it wasnt the Jets that choked last year (as the case could be made in several previous years)....Favre got hurt and that just killed the team. If he stayed healthy, the Jets at the very minimum get a wild card berth.

Jenkins also was hurt/beat up at the end of the season and that killed the defense.

[GordonGecko]

I take some solace in the fact that it wasnt the Jets that choked last year (as the case could be made in several previous years)....Favre got hurt and that just killed the team. If he stayed healthy, the Jets at the very minimum get a wild card berth.

And now you have a fresh QB and maybe the best defense in the NFL, so things are looking good in jet land

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

Jenkins also was hurt/beat up at the end of the season and that killed the defense.

This is my only concern about the defense this year, the lack of depth on the line. The dropoff between what Jenkins and the next guy does is tremendous. Pouha is a solid tackle but as NT in this defense I don't think he's big enough.

[RhodyYanksFan]

Great stuff.

This was one of the highlights:




On the other hand RIYankee comes out looking like Mel Kiper:
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=261 and http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...&postcount=263

That guy knew his sh*t when it came to the NFL. I wish he still posted here.

[JeffWeaverFan]

This is my only concern about the defense this year, the lack of depth on the line. The dropoff between what Jenkins and the next guy does is tremendous. Pouha is a solid tackle but as NT in this defense I don't think he's big enough.

No doubt about it, but it's not like any team has a backup that is anywhere near as good as a guy like Jenkins. And I've actually been impressed with Pouha, whose playing pretty well. A big key for Ryan though will be giving Jenkins enough plays off so he's not burnt out near the end of the season.

And on a completely side note, and I was reminded because of my last sentence there, a move to an 18 game season will be a disaster. Football is such a violent and physical game that two more games will just kill the NFL. It'll no longer be which team is the most talented, but which team gets lucky with injuries because every team will have big time injuries with those extra 2 games. I just hate it. The NFL is perfect as is.