Yankees Now Ignoring Ben Sheets [Edited]

[Dr. Gonzo]

Of course I want CC first. But give me Sheets over Burnett since both are injury risks and Sheets is better. He did start the ASG at YS and has a great arm versus Burnett who has an electric arm who never got the results that Sheets electric arm did. And Lowe who is taking advantage of a desperate market for pitching.

Overall I think Sheets is a better bet and is being overlooked, hence we can get a better deal with him.

I don't get why this forum and yanks fans have not considered him, especially when we consider Burnett/Lowe.

Thoughts....

[ARoDfan4life]

I wouldn't not want because he's actually increased his innings per yr. but I want to get CC first.

[MattUNC2003]

""That's it," Sheets said. "That's all I have. I've got a broke arm."

It's not quite broken, but it is certainly damaged. Sheets had been pitching with pain in his right elbow since Aug. 24 in St. Louis, and he finally revealed the injury on Sept. 17 in Chicago after exiting a start after two innings."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mil

(Props to someone in another thread for pointing this out.)

...Is why people are ignoring Ben Sheets. He's damaged goods.

[apalradio]

I guess it's because his own health history is even worse than Burnett's. This year, just when it seemed he was really going to turn in his first solid full season in four years, he broke down again right at the end. The Brewers apparently were so discouraged they no longer consider him part of their future.

[Zimmers' Helmet]

""That's it," Sheets said. "That's all I have. I've got a broke arm."

It's not quite broken, but it is certainly damaged. Sheets had been pitching with pain in his right elbow since Aug. 24 in St. Louis, and he finally revealed the injury on Sept. 17 in Chicago after exiting a start after two innings."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mil

(Props to someone in another thread for pointing this out.)

...Is why people are ignoring Ben Sheets. He's damaged goods.

http://mvn.com/baseballtimeinarlingt...s-rangers.html

...and that "when healthy" qualifier is, unfortunately, the downside of Sheets. A torn flexor muscle near his right elbow forced Sheets out of the Brewers' October plans late in the regular season, an injury that is expected to completely heal -- and one that Sheets' agent, Casey Close (a one-time representative of Josh Hamilton) has deemed relatively innocuous, likening it to a "hamstring pull in your elbow" -- in due time, but also an injury that has purportedly shaken teams' confidence in his long-term durability:

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

i think that injury might be something we can take advantage of. Buy low on Sheets AND sign Sabathia.

[flymick24]

torn flexor tendons are pretty serious, no matter how big or small the tear... in the case of small tears, sure, they'll be able to heal on their own over a period of time, but chances are that they're more likely to tear again, and more seriously the next time out

TJS is looming for him, imo

[DEADSOX]

Reading the title of this thread hurts my head.

[Vazquez]

I would prefer Sheets on a two/three year deal over a five year deal for Burnett. Hughes/Chamberlain/Wang and then Brackman/Betances/McAllister/IPK/Coke leave too many candidates to have Burnett locked in for the long-term. And that's not even counting if we can sign CC.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

Dr. Gonzo=Yoda based on the thread title.

[Rocketman]

Ben Sheets has a truly outstanding capacity as a major league starting pitcher. His K/BB rates are breathtaking. In his best year, 2004, Sheets finished with an 8.25:1 strikeout to walk ratio. Though he only started 17 games in 2006, it's hard to ignore his over 11:1 K/BB rate. That's beyond stupendous. Beyond remarkable. His career rate is 3.85:1, which is the fourth best in major league history.

Fourth best in major league history! Only Tommy Bond, a pitcher in the 19th century, Curt Schilling and Pedro Martinez have better career rates.

The only problem is that Sheets is his terrible history with injury. Sheets ended this season with a tear near his right elbow. You could sign this guy for a 5 year contract, only for him to sit on the bench like Carl Pavano. It's also possible that Sheets could pitch at least 3 of those seasons without hitting the disabled list, which would make even an expensive contract worthwhile.

I honestly don't know what I'd offer him, but I do know that I wouldn't count on him as an ace. The Brewers tried that for years, and it never worked.

If the Yankees sign CC Sabathia or manage to trade for Jake Peavy, Ben Sheets has the chance to be a terrific subsequent pickup. He also, of course, has the chance to be an unmitigated disaster.

[JOE COOL]

Dr. Gonzo wrote: "I don't get why this forum and yanks fans have not considered him, especially when we consider Burnett/Lowe.

Thoughts....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It could be because he has never pitched in the AL like C.C., Burnett and Lowe have. I have a feeling C.C. is NOT going to sign with us so I think we'd better contact Sheets agent. We might get a bargain.

[sweet_lou_14]

The Are Ben Sheets' Base Already Belong On Our Roster

[bcom33]

what are why sheets, ben good pitcher us for

[nnysiny]

why not Sheets acquire. not good enough he is?

[ThePinStripes]

I don't think anyone is comparing Sheets to CC (or they shouldn't be, anyway), but I agree with the stance of Sheets over Burnett.

[KeithF40]

After so many of the bad FA signings the Yankees have made in the pitcher market, and the injuries notably, I don't think Cash can survive another let down. If Sheets gets injured, and he has a history of it, Cash will be out the door and ultimately everyone does their job to most importantly not get fired.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

Screw Burnett, Screw Lowe, Screw Sheets. Sign CC and Tex and call it a offseason.

[ThePinStripes]

Screw Burnett, Screw Lowe, Screw Sheets. Sign CC and Tex and call it a offseason.

I agree. If we can't win with an offense of Damon, Jeter, A-rod, Tex, etc and a rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Pettitte and a cheap #5, we've got serious problems.

[kan_t]

Screw Burnett, Screw Lowe, Screw Sheets. Sign CC and Tex and call it a offseason.

We can sign CC, Tex AND Sheets.

Hell NO to Burnett and Lowe.

[yanksphan]

http://mvn.com/baseballtimeinarlingt...s-rangers.html

His agent says he's going to be ok???

Wow, imagine that!

[mbn007]

The only way I really would want Sheets is on a 1 year deal, at some $15 million, with future seasons kicking in only if he reaches some kid of innings target. Otherwise, this may be Carl Pavano, redux.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I get the whole injury thing with sheets, but then why do people have their mom's panties on for burnett?

[nojoke]

I guess it's because his own health history is even worse than Burnett's. This year, just when it seemed he was really going to turn in his first solid full season in four years, he broke down again right at the end. The Brewers apparently were so discouraged they no longer consider him part of their future.

And...the goal of this team is to get to the World Series. We don't need a guy who can be successful from the beginning of the season till September, we need a guy who can pitch that extra month.

[nojoke]

I get the whole injury thing with sheets, but then why do people have their mom's panties on for burnett?

because hes not injured at the moment. I'm not a fan of Burnett but we could certainly use some pitching help. I wouldn't see him anywhere better than the 4th starter though. Any idea on who is available next off-season?

[NelsonMuntz]

Also being discussed here:
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=115018

[Dr. Gonzo]

sheets:

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
2001 22 MIL NL 11 10 25 25 1 1 0 0 151.3 166 89 80 23 48 94 5 3 653 6 0 4.76 4.32 91 1.414 AS
2002 23 MIL NL 11 16 34 34 1 0 0 0 216.7 237 105 100 21 70 170 10 9 934 10 0 4.15 4.07 98 1.417
2003 24 MIL NL 11 13 34 34 1 0 0 0 220.7 232 122 109 29 43 157 6 7 931 2 0 4.45 4.29 96 1.246
2004 25 MIL NL 12 14 34 34 5 0 0 0 237.0 201 85 71 25 32 264 4 8 937 1 1 2.70 4.36 162 0.983 CYA-8,AS
2005 26 MIL NL 10 9 22 22 3 0 0 0 156.7 142 66 58 19 25 141 2 7 633 1 0 3.33 4.27 128 1.066
2006 27 MIL NL 6 7 17 17 0 0 0 0 106.0 105 47 45 9 11 116 2 3 430 1 0 3.82 4.54 119 1.094
2007 28 MIL NL 12 5 24 24 2 0 0 0 141.3 138 62 60 17 37 106 1 4 592 2 0 3.82 4.48 117 1.238 AS
2008 29 MIL NL 13 9 31 31 5 3 0 0 198.3 181 74 68 17 47 158 1 8 812 2 0 3.09 4.30 139 1.150 AS
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
8 Yr WL% .509 86 83 221 221 18 4 0 0 1428.0 1402 650 591 160 313 1206 31 49 5922 25 1 3.72 4.31 116 1.201
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
162 Game Avg 13 12 34 34 2 0 0 0 219.7 215 100 90 24 48 185 4 7 911 3 0 3.72 4.31 116 1.201
Career High 13 16 34 34 5 3 0 0 237.0 237 122 109 29 70 264 10 9 937 10 1 2.70 4.54 162 0.983

Burnett:
Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1999 22 FLA NL 4 2 7 7 0 0 0 0 41.3 37 23 16 3 25 33 0 0 182 2 0 3.48 4.34 125 1.500
2000 23 FLA NL 3 7 13 13 0 0 0 0 82.7 80 46 44 8 44 57 2 2 364 3 0 4.79 4.41 92 1.500
2001 24 FLA NL 11 12 27 27 2 1 0 0 173.3 145 82 78 20 83 128 7 7 733 3 1 4.05 4.23 104 1.315
2002 25 FLA NL 12 9 31 29 7 5 0 0 204.3 153 84 75 12 90 203 9 14 844 5 0 3.30 4.03 122 1.189
2003 26 FLA NL 0 2 4 4 0 0 0 0 23.0 18 13 12 2 18 21 2 2 106 2 0 4.70 4.20 89 1.565
2004 27 FLA NL 7 6 20 19 1 0 0 0 120.0 102 50 49 9 38 113 4 7 490 0 0 3.68 4.10 112 1.167
2005 28 FLA NL 12 12 32 32 4 2 0 0 209.0 184 97 80 12 79 198 7 12 873 1 0 3.44 3.98 115 1.258
2006 29 TOR AL 10 8 21 21 2 1 0 0 135.7 138 67 60 14 39 118 8 6 577 3 1 3.98 4.56 115 1.305
2007 30 TOR AL 10 8 25 25 2 0 0 0 165.7 131 74 69 23 66 176 12 5 691 2 0 3.75 4.47 119 1.189
2008 31 TOR AL 18 10 35 34 1 0 1 0 221.3 211 109 100 19 86 231 9 11 957 2 2 4.07 4.27 105 1.342
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
10 Yr WL% .534 87 76 215 211 19 9 1 0 1376.3 1199 645 583 122 568 1278 60 66 5817 23 4 3.81 4.23 111 1.284
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
162 Game Avg 13 12 34 33 3 1 0 0 219.7 191 102 93 19 90 204 9 10 928 3 0 3.81 4.23 111 1.284
Career High 18 12 35 34 7 5 1 0 221.3 211 109 100 23 90 231 12 14 957 5 2 3.30 4.56 125 1.167

[hockeypuck2008]

you should really rename this post. Broken english does not make people want to take you serious.

[NelsonMuntz]

If we don't land CC then I think you almost have to take a gamble with Sheets and hope that he gives you enough starts to bridge the gap to the next big FA market.

[yankeeman61]

Unless there is an out clause (not likely) in case of injury or an incentive clause for IP (not likely either) there is no way anyone in their right mind should give this guy a big multi-year guaranteed contract. The guy had to shut it down AGAIN in '08. He may have great stuff but is just not durable. You have to be able to stay on the field before you can think about winning anything. Of course history has a tendency of repeating itself.

[False1]

Re: The are why ignoring Ben Sheets thread?

See any one of a number of Pavano threads. When a guy going into a career year says his arm is broke, that's concerning. I'm not saying we shouldn't poke at him and see if a) he'd take a short term incentive laden deal and b) that he's thoroughly medically sound, but I'm not surprised at all that he's not a priority for anyone right now - not even the Brewers who are almost assuredly losing CC.

[TheManKnownAsMecca]

I honestly would prefer Sheets over Burnett but they are both a crap shoot in terms of injuries.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Of course I want CC first. But give me Sheets over Burnett since both are injury risks and Sheets is better. He did start the ASG at YS and has a great arm versus Burnett who has an electric arm who never got the results that Sheets electric arm did. And Lowe who is taking advantage of a desperate market for pitching.

Overall I think Sheets is a better bet and is being overlooked, hence we can get a better deal with him.

I don't get why this forum and yanks fans have not considered him, especially when we consider Burnett/Lowe.

Thoughts....

to the mods... thanks for fixing my drunk english with the thread and also combining it to make sense. Always an impressive job.

OVERALL, my question to this thread is:

burnett is just as much an injury risk, and why is that a greater desired option then someone who may have his problems but is overall better. Plus, take out burnett versus the yanks and he wasn't as good as he seems.

[yankeeman61]

to the mods... thanks for fixing my drunk english with the thread and also combining it to make sense.

I was drunk at the time I read it, perfectly I understood it I.

[35Knucklecurve]

torn flexor tendons are pretty serious, no matter how big or small the tear... in the case of small tears, sure, they'll be able to heal on their own over a period of time, but chances are that they're more likely to tear again, and more seriously the next time out

TJS is looming for him, imo

That's my line of thinking also. Of course, there's no way to predict if or when that will happen (another major tear or TJS), but it's just to much of a risk, IMO. Given the choice between Burnett and Sheets, I'd have go to with Burnett....and even that is a risk.

[NYYFutures17]

We could get Sheets for 3 years, and Burnett for 5. IMO Safer bet is Sheets easily...

[NYYDragoon]

We could get Sheets for 3 years, and Burnett for 5. IMO Safer bet is Sheets easily...

Think he'd go for 2 with an option?

[Melan-cynic]

Any time a pitcher says his "arm is broke," at the end of a season, I would rather not have him in my team's rotation the following year. That's just me.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Any time a pitcher says his "arm is broke," at the end of a season, I would rather not have him in my team's rotation the following year. That's just me.

You pick up on these subtle clues much more adeptly than the average Yankee fan

[NYYDragoon]

You pick up on these subtle clues much more adeptly than the average Yankee fan

I'd definitely have him go through a medical analysis before I gave him any sort of contract.

[Melan-cynic]

You pick up on these subtle clues much more adeptly than the average Yankee fan

Well the average Yankee fan ranks somewhere between CroMagnon Man and Murray Chass, so I'm hardly in good company there.

[Bostonsfavson]

Any time a pitcher says his "arm is broke," at the end of a season, I would rather not have him in my team's rotation the following year. That's just me.

Exactly. Here's a guy who had a known serious arm issue at the end of last season, and people want to sign him? Let's just resign Pavano while we're at it. I want neither, but if forced, I'd take Burnett in a heartbeat. Burnett may have injury issues, but I'm not worried that his arm is going to fall off like Sheets' might.

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

Exactly. Here's a guy who had a known serious arm issue at the end of last season, and people want to sign him? Let's just resign Pavano while we're at it. I want neither, but if forced, I'd take Burnett in a heartbeat. Burnett may have injury issues, but I'm not worried that his arm is going to fall off like Sheets' might.

The difference between Sheets and guys like Burnett/Pavano, is that Sheets is actually good when healthy. Pavano was a train wreck his whole career save one year, and Burnett sucks against every AL team except the Yankees.

[yanksphan]

and Burnett sucks against every AL team except the Yankees.

Career Splits:

NYY - 9GS, 2.63ERA
BOS - 5GS, 1.98ERA
BAL - 8GS, 4.98ERA
TOR - 1GS, 1.00ERA (CG)
TAM - 16GS, 2.98ERA

So he has trouble against Baltimore, and Toronto is unclear. I'll take those numbers vs the rest of the AL East...

EDIT: Further research tells even more -

vs BAL
2008 - 9.82ERA (3GS)
2007 - 3.28ERA (5GS)

He had a game this season where he allowed 7ER in 5.1IP vs BAL. That skewed his overall ERA vs BAL.

[NewEraYanks2527]

Career Splits:

NYY - 9GS, 2.63ERA
BOS - 5GS, 1.98ERA
BAL - 8GS, 4.98ERA
TOR - 1GS, 1.00ERA (CG)
TAM - 16GS, 2.98ERA

That just made me a fan.

I wonder if the reason for the ERA over 4 is a few really bad games here and there instead of just game after game where he goes out and gives up 3-5 runs.

[Abe Frohman]

That just made me a fan.

I wonder if the reason for the ERA over 4 is a few really bad games here and there instead of just game after game where he goes out and gives up 3-5 runs.

Baltimore is just an annoying ballclub. Even their bigger guys like millar,
Huff, and Markakis are just pesky. They love the FB and Burnett lives off
of his FB. I bet they've hit some moon shots off of poor old AJ.

[OldYankeeFan]

That's my line of thinking also. Of course, there's no way to predict if or when that will happen (another major tear or TJS), but it's just to much of a risk, IMO. Given the choice between Burnett and Sheets, I'd have go to with Burnett....and even that is a risk.

I agree, at least Burnett already had TJS and came back successfully from it. Is there still some risk with him? Of course, but there is risk with ALL pitchers. At least one thing is certain with Burnett, we KNOW he can pitch well against our primary rivals going into next year and I'd feel MUCH more comfortable AJ pitching for us against Boston than the reverse.

[bcom33]

I agree, at least Burnett already had TJS and came back successfully from it. Is there still some risk with him? Of course, but there is risk with ALL pitchers. At least one thing is certain with Burnett, we KNOW he can pitch well against our primary rivals going into next year and I'd feel MUCH more comfortable AJ pitching for us against Boston than the reverse.

Yeah, but the question isn't that. The question is would you feel comfortable with A.J. Burnett pitching for us against Boston 5 years from now. That is if he's still got an arm.

[NYDCYankee]

I agree, at least Burnett already had TJS and came back successfully from it. Is there still some risk with him? Of course, but there is risk with ALL pitchers. At least one thing is certain with Burnett, we KNOW he can pitch well against our primary rivals going into next year and I'd feel MUCH more comfortable AJ pitching for us against Boston than the reverse.

AJ Burnett is not good.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

We can sign CC, Tex AND Sheets.

Hell NO to Burnett and Lowe.

Question: Why sheets? For one he's injured. For 2 : He has never played in the AL before. At least Burnett has played in our league.