Schilling Blasts Manny

[.319/22/157]

I didn't put this in the Red Sox thread since neither one are Sox players anymore. Schilling really goes after Ramirez and the Sox fans that stuck with him.

http://www.pinkhathell.com/2008/10/3...and-moans.html

[4bronxbombers]

I didn't put this in the Red Sox thread since neither one are Sox players anymore. Schilling really goes after Ramirez and the Sox fans that stuck with him.

http://www.pinkhathell.com/2008/10/3...and-moans.html

First of all I didn't read the whole thing....partly because it's way to effin long and partly because it's difficult to read white on black like that. He'll never learn to shut his big fat trap. I'm sick of his diarrhea of the mouth rants. He really makes me sick. Go find something else to do Curt. No one cares. No one wants to listen to you.

One last thing...one of the reasons Manny probably wanted to leave was to get away from FDB Schilling.

[Luvtino]

I wish we could lock Jose and Curt in a room together.

[YankeePride1967]

I'm sure Manny is losing sleep because the great Curt has opined again. I'll be glad when the loud mouth is even further away from relevance.

[YASS]

I'm sure Manny is losing sleep because the great Curt has opined again. I'll be glad when the loud mouth is even further away from relevance.

He may be a loudmouth, but he's not wrong.

[4bronxbombers]

I wish we could lock Jose and Curt in a room together.

What a great visual that is. Curt would kill him by talking him to death - the big windbag.....

[dabomb2045]

Does Schilling really believe that everyone cares about what he has to say? Because we dont. Shut the hell up please.

[YASS]

Does Schilling really believe that everyone cares about what he has to say? Because we dont. Shut the hell up please.

He posted it on his blog, not here.

Someone went out and got his comments and brought them here.

[scooterfan]

He may be a loudmouth, but he's not wrong.

Honestly, I agree with Schilling on Manny, too - at least in criticizing Manny for things he did that reflected badly on the game, and the things he did to hurt teammates.

And if the guy threw to Varitek, I'm sure he knows first-hand how good a receiver he was/is.

On the other hand, Schilling ignores one factor that (I think) got Manny going on this course of action: he knew based on a long-time pattern of behavior that the Sox were greasing the skids to send him away. Manny was getting the Mo Vaughn/Nomar/Clemens treatment from that part of the press that is the lackey of Sox management (I assume it's Lucchino primarily).

Schilling also aggrandizes himself - as usual. I'm sure THAT is the one thing that drove GMs, managers and teammates crazy about him

I also wish Schilling would leave the amateur psychology out of the equation.

[DiMaggio5CF]

I'm sure there's some good stuff there, but not surprisingly, I was much too bored by Schilling to make it past the second paragraph of his barely-coherent babbling.

[TommyK8]

Honestly, I agree with Schilling on Manny, too - at least in criticizing Manny for things he did that reflected badly on the game, and the things he did to hurt teammates.

And if the guy threw to Varitek, I'm sure he knows first-hand how good a receiver he was/is.

On the other hand, Schilling ignores one factor that (I think) got Manny going on this course of action: he knew based on a long-time pattern of behavior that the Sox were greasing the skids to send him away. Manny was getting the Mo Vaughn/Nomar/Clemens treatment from that part of the press that is the lackey of Sox management (I assume it's Lucchino primarily).

Schilling also aggrandizes himself - as usual. I'm sure THAT is the one thing that drove GMs, managers and teammates crazy about him

I also wish Schilling would leave the amateur psychology out of the equation.

I have to point out something regarding the Mo Vaughn/Nomar/Clemens treatement...

There is a line in Red Sox history that needs to be drawn and it's somewhere approximately when John Henry bought the Boston Red Sox. Prior to that, you are absolutely right...the Red Sox had trouble with many of their star players, and they did try to spin things with the fans when those guys were heading out of town. The list is longer than Mo Vaughn and Clemens....you have Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn and a few others.

However, this ownership group has built up a tremendous amount of credibility with the fans. Mostly, it's because with their game plan, the team has won 2 championships. They no longer have to spin with the local press. It is also worthy of mention that when the Red Sox "superstars" have left, the team has in retrospect appeared to make the right decision. You mentioned Mo Vaughn, who had one decent year in Anaheim and spent lots of time injured and when he played thereafter he did poorly and couldn't complete his contract. Then we have Nomar, who sulked his way out of town and very quickly thereafter could no longer play shortstop and has spent more time on the DL than off it. Pedro as well had one good year and then he has been injured or performing poorly. Johnny Damon? He certainly has not done for the Yankees what he did for the Red Sox, although he has been very good at times. I think his biggest thing is that he very quickly became a liability in center.

So now we come to Manny. The front office didn't have to throw him under the bus. The fans saw Manny's lackluster play down the stretch for themselves. Even his own teammates didn't defend him this time. I think the fans knew two things...first, Manny's stats had been in steady decline for the last 1 2/3 years in the AL...and he was going to be 37 next year and if he was going to be that unhappy, it was time to move on.

[Casey at the Bat]

I have to point out something regarding the Mo Vaughn/Nomar/Clemens treatement...

There is a line in Red Sox history that needs to be drawn and it's somewhere approximately when John Henry bought the Boston Red Sox. Prior to that, you are absolutely right...the Red Sox had trouble with many of their star players, and they did try to spin things with the fans when those guys were heading out of town. The list is longer than Mo Vaughn and Clemens....you have Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn and a few others.

However, this ownership group has built up a tremendous amount of credibility with the fans. Mostly, it's because with their game plan, the team has won 2 championships. They no longer have to spin with the local press. It is also worthy of mention that when the Red Sox "superstars" have left, the team has in retrospect appeared to make the right decision. You mentioned Mo Vaughn, who had one decent year in Anaheim and spent lots of time injured and when he played thereafter he did poorly and couldn't complete his contract. Then we have Nomar, who sulked his way out of town and very quickly thereafter could no longer play shortstop and has spent more time on the DL than off it. Pedro as well had one good year and then he has been injured or performing poorly. Johnny Damon? He certainly has not done for the Yankees what he did for the Red Sox, although he has been very good at times. I think his biggest thing is that he very quickly became a liability in center.

So now we come to Manny. The front office didn't have to throw him under the bus. The fans saw Manny's lackluster play down the stretch for themselves. Even his own teammates didn't defend him this time. I think the fans knew two things...first, Manny's stats had been in steady decline for the last 1 2/3 years in the AL...and he was going to be 37 next year and if he was going to be that unhappy, it was time to move on.

If I remember correctly, the Sox front office admitted that they learned a thing or two about how they handled the Nomar/manny/AROD/whoever else was gonna be part of that trade, and swore they wouldn't do things the same way again. And I believe they have held to their word. No one said a thing about Damon, Pedro (except for Pedro), or even Manny, when they were on their way out. No one said a thing about Lowe, Arroyo, Renteria, Cabrera, or anyone else. The Nomar trade may have been a good one in retrospect, but the way they handled it (their first "big" trade really) was pretty poor. They've learned their lesson, and have pretty much kept mum about everyone since then.

[Stick Michael]

Way too long. Took one look at it and closed the browser. If for some reason strangers start giving a damn about my opinions I promise to keep my statements succinct. Thankfully that should never happen.

[TheoShmeo]

Does Schilling really believe that everyone cares about what he has to say? Because we dont. Shut the hell up please.

I doubt Schilling believes that everyone cares about his views on Manny.

And, in fact, he delted his own post before it was picked up by others.

But it's also true that many fans are interested in one ex-teammate's candid assessment of Manny. I'm certainly one of them, even if Schilling's comments are simply a restatement of what he's already said and even while I remain a fan of Manny the ballplayer (if not Manny the person).

In a world of boring "one game at a time" platitudes, I'll gladly take candor in any form, even if it's repetitive and even if it's from an ex-teammate who didn't play in 2008.

[ieddyi]

I doubt Schilling believes that everyone cares about his views on Manny.

And, in fact, he delted his own post before it was picked up by others.

But it's also true that many fans are interested in one ex-teammate's candid assessment of Manny. I'm certainly one of them, even if Schilling's comments are simply a restatement of what he's already said and even while I remain a fan of Manny the ballplayer (if not Manny the person).

In a world of boring "one game at a time" platitudes, I'll gladly take candor in any form, even if it's repetitive and even if it's from an ex-teammate who didn't play in 2008.

DO you actually think he took the post down because he was shy aobut expressing himself??

He took it down because he was afraid of negative reaction- why else? Did he suddenly develop a sense of humility?

INteresting that he dissed Manny for putting himself above his team and only being concerned about $$$.
Wasnt that the same scenario that brought JD Drew to the sawx when he left the Dodgers in a sleazy way.

Was Kurt putting himself above the needs of the team when he was so out of shape that the sawx had to put a weight clause in his contract?

[cptcarl]

Does Schilling really believe that everyone cares about what he has to say? Because we dont. Shut the hell up please.

Players like Schilling, who are willing to speak out, make the long wait until next April a little easier. They should be encouraged.

[ieddyi]

Players like Schilling, who are willing to speak out, make the long wait until next April a little easier. They should be encouraged.

Like he needs encouragement?

He earned that Redlight nickname

[silverdsl]

There are times when I think Schilling definitely says too much but I would much rather hear a player's actual opinions about things even if it's controversial and I don't agree with what they're saying rather than hear "safe" opinions that are what they think they should say rather than what they really think.

What kind of bothers me is that Schilling's blog entry ended up word-for-word on someone else's blog even though he had taken it down from his own site. Yes, it was still available via Google and yes, Schilling is a public figure but I also think he has the right to have some say over where something he writes ends up and given that he had taken it down from his site he probably didn't intend for the entire thing to be posted on another site.

[yankeebot]

There are times when I think Schilling definitely says too much but I would much rather hear a player's actual opinions about things even if it's controversial and I don't agree with what they're saying rather than hear "safe" opinions that are what they think they should say rather than what they really think.

What kind of bothers me is that Schilling's blog entry ended up word-for-word on someone else's blog even though he had taken it down from his own site. Yes, it was still available via Google and yes, Schilling is a public figure but I also think he has the right to have some say over where something he writes ends up and given that he had taken it down from his site he probably didn't intend for the entire thing to be posted on another site.

If Curt doesn't want his words posted elsewhere he should think before he hits submit. He made a public statement. If he'd made it to a reporter it wouldn't belong to him anymore. Same thing. It's the internet and, by now, I'm sure he knows how it works.

[TheoShmeo]

DO you actually think he took the post down because he was shy aobut expressing himself??

He took it down because he was afraid of negative reaction- why else? Did he suddenly develop a sense of humility?

INteresting that he dissed Manny for putting himself above his team and only being concerned about $$$.
Wasnt that the same scenario that brought JD Drew to the sawx when he left the Dodgers in a sleazy way.

Was Kurt putting himself above the needs of the team when he was so out of shape that the sawx had to put a weight clause in his contract?

All of us have typed something and either deleted it before posting or wished we hadn't hit "submit reply."

You might be right about why Curt unposted and it might have been motivated by other factors. Either way, who cares? The fact that he unposted meant that he didn't want that out there, which is unusual for Curt and therefore noteworthy.

Drew had the contractual right to opt out of his contract. Murray Chass has told us that the Sox tampered with Drew. They might have. But there's never been any evidence of that beyond Murray's speculation. And in any event, that's a lot different than a player shooting himself out of town without a contractual right to do so.

As to the weight clause, nice try. It was Schilling's idea, not the Red Sox. He came up with it as a way to bridge the gap between the two sides. And regardless of who put that in the agreement, how having a weight clause in the contract is putting the player above the team is beyond me. To the contrary, weight clauses are a good way to ensure that, going forward, the player is in good shape. And the season before that clause existed, Schilling was the second most valuable playoff starting pitcher in a year in which the Sox won the WS.

[justinvarnes]

I would like to point out that Manny a few years ago Manny was put on waivers by the Sox. And not the kind of put on waivers that most players are (as a smokescreen).

Then they tried to trade him for A-Rod a few years after that.

Then there was a whole offseason that surrounded the possibility of him being traded.


Gee, I can't imagine why Manny doesn't put his all into helping the Boston Red Sox?

And let me be clear: if Manny "dogged it" in the field or at the plate for Boston, how come he still put up great numbers year in, year out and won the MVP of the WS? How come he didn't run hard for balls over his head in LA? He played the same way there as he did in LA. He certainly helped the Sox kill the Yankees year in, year out.


The place I saw Manny "dog it" was his refusal to play from time to time, usually due to an injury of some sort. The severity of the injury was questioned, and likely rightfully so. So my question is this: If your company tried to fire you several times, and then expected you to continue to work through an injury (no matter how small), would you really risk your future just to help that company?


I think that although Manny is clearly a difficult and complex person and player, the Red Sox made this bed. They signed him, they tried to waive him, they tried to trade him several times, once almost worked, then they appear shocked that Manny was "demanding" to be traded. And it worked. They duped some fans into believing this was Manny's doing. No, the Red Sox FO loves Manny. They've always done right by him and never wanted him off the team.


I'll say it again, if you knew your boss had tried to fire you several times, wouldn't you start to focus on your future outside that company? And then wouldn't you take steps to not ruin your future to help your current job - you know - the one they're trying to fire you from?

[Ric]

INteresting that he dissed Manny for putting himself above his team and only being concerned about $$$.
Wasnt that the same scenario that brought JD Drew to the sawx when he left the Dodgers in a sleazy way.

then could the same thing be said for any player that has used an opt out clause to get more money - ARod and probably Burnett? thats not the same thing as forcing a trade...

[montrealer]

Well that was 15 minutes of my life that I won`t get back.........who cares what Schilling thinks.......Hell I don`t care what Manny thinks........

[TheoShmeo]

I'll say it again, if you knew your boss had tried to fire you several times, wouldn't you start to focus on your future outside that company? And then wouldn't you take steps to not ruin your future to help your current job - you know - the one they're trying to fire you from?

But why did the Sox put Manny on waivers in the first place?

My point is that it's likely that Manny's questionable behavior was a cause of the Sox actions and not a reaction to it.

To be clear, I'm very happy that the Sox had Manny for 7.5 years and am not a Manny basher in the least. I just think it's more likely that Manny's antics were the cause of all this than vice-versa. Why else would the Sox want to get rid of a player with his obvious talent?

[YASS]

I would like to point out that Manny a few years ago Manny was put on waivers by the Sox. And not the kind of put on waivers that most players are (as a smokescreen).

Then they tried to trade him for A-Rod a few years after that.

Then there was a whole offseason that surrounded the possibility of him being traded.


Gee, I can't imagine why Manny doesn't put his all into helping the Boston Red Sox?

And let me be clear: if Manny "dogged it" in the field or at the plate for Boston, how come he still put up great numbers year in, year out and won the MVP of the WS? How come he didn't run hard for balls over his head in LA? He played the same way there as he did in LA. He certainly helped the Sox kill the Yankees year in, year out.


The place I saw Manny "dog it" was his refusal to play from time to time, usually due to an injury of some sort. The severity of the injury was questioned, and likely rightfully so. So my question is this: If your company tried to fire you several times, and then expected you to continue to work through an injury (no matter how small), would you really risk your future just to help that company?


I think that although Manny is clearly a difficult and complex person and player, the Red Sox made this bed. They signed him, they tried to waive him, they tried to trade him several times, once almost worked, then they appear shocked that Manny was "demanding" to be traded. And it worked. They duped some fans into believing this was Manny's doing. No, the Red Sox FO loves Manny. They've always done right by him and never wanted him off the team.


I'll say it again, if you knew your boss had tried to fire you several times, wouldn't you start to focus on your future outside that company? And then wouldn't you take steps to not ruin your future to help your current job - you know - the one they're trying to fire you from?

Yeah, that would be an indictment of the Sox front office if Manny hadn't demanded to be traded just about every year since his arrival in Boston.

The Sox tried to accommodate him time and time again, but couldn't get enough value in return.

Also, if you think Manny played just as hard in Boston as he did in LA, you simply weren't paying attention.

[35Knucklecurve]

I have to point out something regarding the Mo Vaughn/Nomar/Clemens treatement...

There is a line in Red Sox history that needs to be drawn and it's somewhere approximately when John Henry bought the Boston Red Sox. Prior to that, you are absolutely right...the Red Sox had trouble with many of their star players, and they did try to spin things with the fans when those guys were heading out of town. The list is longer than Mo Vaughn and Clemens....you have Carlton Fisk, Fred Lynn and a few others.

However, this ownership group has built up a tremendous amount of credibility with the fans. Mostly, it's because with their game plan, the team has won 2 championships. They no longer have to spin with the local press. It is also worthy of mention that when the Red Sox "superstars" have left, the team has in retrospect appeared to make the right decision. You mentioned Mo Vaughn, who had one decent year in Anaheim and spent lots of time injured and when he played thereafter he did poorly and couldn't complete his contract. Then we have Nomar, who sulked his way out of town and very quickly thereafter could no longer play shortstop and has spent more time on the DL than off it. Pedro as well had one good year and then he has been injured or performing poorly. Johnny Damon? He certainly has not done for the Yankees what he did for the Red Sox, although he has been very good at times. I think his biggest thing is that he very quickly became a liability in center.

So now we come to Manny.The front office didn't have to throw him under the bus. The fans saw Manny's lackluster play down the stretch for themselves. Even his own teammates didn't defend him this time. I think the fans knew two things...first, Manny's stats had been in steady decline for the last 1 2/3 years in the AL...and he was going to be 37 next year and if he was going to be that unhappy, it was time to move on.

Right you are - Manny did nothing to hide his desire to leave Boston. Having the team vote on it and ending up with one guy (Papi) stand up for you is about as obvious as it gets. Holding up a sign in the dugout making fun of being traded probably went over like a submarine with screens. No matter how unhappy you are, you're getting paid to play and expected to give 100% everytime you take the field. He hurt the team and whether he realized it or not, also hurt his chances of any future team feeling comfortable giving him any sort of a long-term deal because you never know when he's going to decide to pull the same thing again.

"The Idiots" nametag was fine with fans as long as they continued to win and Manny Being Manny wasn't funny anymore.

[justinvarnes]

Yeah, that would be an indictment of the Sox front office if Manny hadn't demanded to be traded just about every year since his arrival in Boston.

The Sox tried to accommodate him time and time again, but couldn't get enough value in return.

Also, if you think Manny played just as hard in Boston as he did in LA, you simply weren't paying attention.

Did Manny ask to be traded before he was put on waivers that one year? If so, that's news to me, and I'm not being a smartass. I was under the impression that the Red Sox started that train rolling. When did Manny first ask to be traded? I'm certainly open to learn that Manny's trade demands began before the waiver move. And do we know why Manny started asking for a trade?


Secondly, can you explain how much harder he played for LA? He certainly didn't run faster or play better defense. I watched practically every game he played in LA and watched hundreds of Sox games. He played that same molasses Left Field I am familiar with. Ball sails over his head, he saunter over to get it, and the runner is on 2nd as he lobs it in. Ball goes to the gap and Manny jogs over to backup the CF. It's like a movie I've seen a hundred times. Different scenery, same script.

You don't mean his .400 BA do you? That was over 187 AB's. It's not as if he never did that for the Sox. You don't hit .300 or better for your career without stretches of hitting .400 or better. Or to put it another, I will assume you don't think that Manny can hit .400 just by playing harder. You're a level headed baseball person from all that I've read here.

He was hitting .300 with the Sox with a .400 OBP. If Manny hits alot closer to .400 than .300 next year, I will find you here and admit to you that he was dogging it. But I guess I just don't see it - other than the SSS of his .400 avg.

But I can be convinced otherwise. Fire away!

[Casey at the Bat]

Did Manny ask to be traded before he was put on waivers that one year? If so, that's news to me, and I'm not being a smartass. I was under the impression that the Red Sox started that train rolling. When did Manny first ask to be traded? I'm certainly open to learn that Manny's trade demands began before the waiver move. And do we know why Manny started asking for a trade?


Secondly, can you explain how much harder he played for LA? He certainly didn't run faster or play better defense. I watched practically every game he played in LA and watched hundreds of Sox games. He played that same molasses Left Field I am familiar with. Ball sails over his head, he saunter over to get it, and the runner is on 2nd as he lobs it in. Ball goes to the gap and Manny jogs over to backup the CF. It's like a movie I've seen a hundred times. Different scenery, same script.

You don't mean his .400 BA do you? That was over 187 AB's. It's not as if he never did that for the Sox. You don't hit .300 or better for your career without stretches of hitting .400 or better. Or to put it another, I will assume you don't think that Manny can hit .400 just by playing harder. You're a level headed baseball person from all that I've read here.

He was hitting .300 with the Sox with a .400 OBP. If Manny hits alot closer to .400 than .300 next year, I will find you here and admit to you that he was dogging it. But I guess I just don't see it - other than the SSS of his .400 avg.

But I can be convinced otherwise. Fire away!

I've read that Manny immediately asked if he could undo the deal once he was signed with Boston. I don't remember hearing it when it happened, ,but I remember reading about it in the past few months. If it's true, then Manny was trying to leave long before the 2003 season.

Secondly, if you don't think Manny was trying hard in LA, you just weren't watching as many Dodger games as I was. He WAS running faster, and running out groundballs, just two weeks after he speculated he might have to shut down for up to three weeks, due to knee problems. He didn't ask for a day off at all while with LA, even though he hinted about all the time off he would have to take when he was in Boston.

I think the biggest difference that we can see in Manny is his relationship with the local press. Manny seemed to be happy talking to the press in LA every day, even holding a press conference when he arrived. We all know how he felt about the press in Boston, and I can't really fault him for that.

[ieddyi]

Did Manny ask to be traded before he was put on waivers that one year? If so, that's news to me, and I'm not being a smartass. I was under the impression that the Red Sox started that train rolling. When did Manny first ask to be traded? I'm certainly open to learn that Manny's trade demands began before the waiver move. And do we know why Manny started asking for a trade?


Secondly, can you explain how much harder he played for LA? He certainly didn't run faster or play better defense. I watched practically every game he played in LA and watched hundreds of Sox games. He played that same molasses Left Field I am familiar with. Ball sails over his head, he saunter over to get it, and the runner is on 2nd as he lobs it in. Ball goes to the gap and Manny jogs over to backup the CF. It's like a movie I've seen a hundred times. Different scenery, same script.

You don't mean his .400 BA do you? That was over 187 AB's. It's not as if he never did that for the Sox. You don't hit .300 or better for your career without stretches of hitting .400 or better. Or to put it another, I will assume you don't think that Manny can hit .400 just by playing harder. You're a level headed baseball person from all that I've read here.

He was hitting .300 with the Sox with a .400 OBP. If Manny hits alot closer to .400 than .300 next year, I will find you here and admit to you that he was dogging it. But I guess I just don't see it - other than the SSS of his .400 avg.

But I can be convinced otherwise. Fire away!

I really don't think their decision to try and trade him was because of Manny's personality- it was his salary

In the early part of his time w/ Boston it was really an outlier- also not their doing

I think they felt they could use the money better. Just speculation here was they also felt that since they didn't sign the contract -and we all know they are the smartest guys in the room- that they needed to show they were smarter than the previous regime

Sure, according to reports he never felt comfortable in Boston, but that was probably not the factor considering his production

People also forget that he sat out the weeks in 2006 due to what was supposed to be a phantom knee injury- his slacking was nothing new

[Carbon Fiber]

I really don't think their decision to try and trade him was because of Manny's personality- it was his salary

In the early part of his time w/ Boston it was really an outlier- also not their doing

I think they felt they could use the money better. Just speculation here was they also felt that since they didn't sign the contract -and we all know they are the smartest guys in the room- that they needed to show they were smarter than the previous regime

Sure, according to reports he never felt comfortable in Boston, but that was probably not the factor considering his production

People also forget that he sat out the weeks in 2006 due to what was supposed to be a phantom knee injury- his slacking was nothing new

Something is wrong with me today --- I totally agree with ieddyi -and- Schilling. Uh oh.

First on Schilling, I don't see the part where Schilling calls out RS fans in there --- the stuff he says is reasonable... mentioning Foulke (frankly, IMO, any RS fan that booed him should be ashamed) is spot on. Mentioning how the Manny being Manny was being in effect permissive and covering up is also correct.

And for ieddyi, I think that the RS organization first and foremost coldly calculates production versus wages. And that they are arrogant/overconfident (anyone see the movie about Enron?) --- yes, they have some rights to be, but sometimes their overconfidence has made them do some dumb deals. However, their cold calculating nature so far, IMO, has saved them from more deals than their arrogance has cost them.

Also, like ieddyi says, I agree that Manny has been pulling the knee, hammy, whatever lines as long as he has been in Boston. When Pedro used to go all primadonna on them, Manny would follow it up with some hammy pain. Our organization (and fans) enabled both to occur time and time again. I think the FO is trying their best to not repeat those mistakes. We'll see how well they do.

[PJMPirate]

Those of you who just said "Shut up Schilling" without reading it might want to. He's right.

[ieddyi]

Something is wrong with me today --- I totally agree with ieddyi -and- Schilling. Uh oh.

First on Schilling, I don't see the part where Schilling calls out RS fans in there --- the stuff he says is reasonable... mentioning Foulke (frankly, IMO, any RS fan that booed him should be ashamed) is spot on. Mentioning how the Manny being Manny was being in effect permissive and covering up is also correct.

And for ieddyi, I think that the RS organization first and foremost coldly calculates production versus wages. And that they are arrogant/overconfident (anyone see the movie about Enron?) --- yes, they have some rights to be, but sometimes their overconfidence has made them do some dumb deals. However, their cold calculating nature so far, IMO, has saved them from more deals than their arrogance has cost them.

Also, like ieddyi says, I agree that Manny has been pulling the knee, hammy, whatever lines as long as he has been in Boston. When Pedro used to go all primadonna on them, Manny would follow it up with some hammy pain. Our organization (and fans) enabled both to occur time and time again. I think the FO is trying their best to not repeat those mistakes. We'll see how well they do.

Relax, probably a one time deal

Before Enron was Long Term Capital Management, before that was the Mexican peso crisis. Both led to the FED priming the printing presses which led to the internet bubble/crash, which led to the historic sub prime/derivatives crash we're witnessing now.
Quant hedge funds- those black box masters of the universe are melting

All examples of folks not being near as smart as they think they are. Gotta wonder how John Henry's funds are holding up

[Rice14]

Did Manny ask to be traded before he was put on waivers that one year? If so, that's news to me, and I'm not being a smartass. I was under the impression that the Red Sox started that train rolling. When did Manny first ask to be traded? I'm certainly open to learn that Manny's trade demands began before the waiver move. And do we know why Manny started asking for a trade?

Red Sox ownership has stated that when they bought the team, almost immediately they heard rumblings that Manny was unhappy and wanted to be traded. I'm not sure if that was ever formally reported at the time or if it's after the fact posturing.I don't think they were ever very happy about inheriting that contract under any circumstances, but to pay a guy who expressed a desire to not be there and didn't always give his all, really made them want to get out from under it.

If you go back to the original story about Manny being placed on waivers, the big event referenced in the story is the weekend series he sat out against the Yankees because he was "sick", yet was spotted out with Enrique Wilson. He followed that up with telling Grady Little he was "too weak" to pinch hit in the next game (if memory serves, against the Phillies), after missing his appointment with the team doctor earlier that day. (Any of this sound familiar?)

So, no, I don't think the current Sox owners were ever in love with that contract, but Manny was acting up before the waivers or trade rumors began.

Here's a link to the original story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650053

[ieddyi]

Red Sox ownership has stated that when they bought the team, almost immediately they heard rumblings that Manny was unhappy and wanted to be traded. I'm not sure if that was ever formally reported at the time or if it's after the fact posturing.I don't think they were ever very happy about inheriting that contract under any circumstances, but to pay a guy who expressed a desire to not be there and didn't always give his all, really made them want to get out from under it.

If you go back to the original story about Manny being placed on waivers, the big event referenced in the story is the weekend series he sat out against the Yankees because he was "sick", yet was spotted out with Enrique Wilson. He followed that up with telling Grady Little he was "too weak" to pinch hit in the next game (if memory serves, against the Phillies), after missing his appointment with the team doctor earlier that day. (Any of this sound familiar?)

So, no, I don't think the current Sox owners were ever in love with that contract, but Manny was acting up before the waivers or trade rumors began.

Here's a link to the original story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650053

I've often wondered how things would have played out if the Yanks had claimed Manny

[Rice14]

I've often wondered how things would have played out if the Yanks had claimed Manny

Me too.

Don't forget, Manny had given that interview just a couple of months before where he talked about his childhood dreams of playing at Yankee Stadium. Had the Yankees claimed him and Manny been happy......I don't want to think about it.

[justinvarnes]

Red Sox ownership has stated that when they bought the team, almost immediately they heard rumblings that Manny was unhappy and wanted to be traded. I'm not sure if that was ever formally reported at the time or if it's after the fact posturing.I don't think they were ever very happy about inheriting that contract under any circumstances, but to pay a guy who expressed a desire to not be there and didn't always give his all, really made them want to get out from under it.

If you go back to the original story about Manny being placed on waivers, the big event referenced in the story is the weekend series he sat out against the Yankees because he was "sick", yet was spotted out with Enrique Wilson. He followed that up with telling Grady Little he was "too weak" to pinch hit in the next game (if memory serves, against the Phillies), after missing his appointment with the team doctor earlier that day. (Any of this sound familiar?)

So, no, I don't think the current Sox owners were ever in love with that contract, but Manny was acting up before the waivers or trade rumors began.

Here's a link to the original story.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1650053

Didn't know that, thanks!

[4bronxbombers]

Didn't know that, thanks!

I wonder why they heard immediately that Manny wanted to be traded. Did he not like the change of ownership??

[Bronson'sCornrows]

Me too.

Don't forget, Manny had given that interview just a couple of months before where he talked about his childhood dreams of playing at Yankee Stadium. Had the Yankees claimed him and Manny been happy......I don't want to think about it.

He wouldn't have been happy there for long. If he reacted so vehemently to what little disciplinary action levied against him while he was here, I can only imagine how his outbursts would have looked like against the strict regime the Yankees had going for so long. I can definitely see the same knee flare ups and ASB nonsense year after year. How long do you think guys like Posada would have put up with it before Manny got bitch-slapped in the clubhouse?

I think Manny wants to play somewhere he'll get paid more than anyone else without having to worry about fans who care about the game or a media that will ever ask him unsolicited questions. He wouldn't have gotten that in his hometown any more than he did in Boston.

[YASS]

I wonder why they heard immediately that Manny wanted to be traded. Did he not like the change of ownership??

I doubt it. Manny's agitating for a trade predated the change in ownership.

[cyhughes22]

I gotta say that as much as I despise Schilling for his smug stupid self important extistence, I agree with basically everything he said. He, whether we like it or not has a much greater knowledge of just how deplorable a human being Manny could be when he was in Boston and I don't see why he would make stuff up. Yea, sure I'm as tired as anybody of hearing Curt open his big mouth but he was right on the money with this one. The Sox did what they had to do to get rid of a problem and realistically, if you have a choice between Manny not playing for you but on the roster and no Jason Bay or Manny playing for someone else but you do have Jason Bay, it's pretty simple to me. They did what they felt they had to and I can respect that. If Beckett weren't such a fat lump of crap who took conditioning a bit more seriously they may still be playing so for the inbred douche fans to be blaming the front office for trading clubhouse cancer is pretty retarded, but then that's what I expect from the scum in that city.

[BillBuckner]

I'd never thought I'd be taking Manny's side on anything, but if anyone needs to shut it, it's Curt "13 going on 40" Schilling.

[TheoShmeo]

If Beckett weren't such a fat lump of crap who took conditioning a bit more seriously they may still be playing so for the inbred douche fans to be blaming the front office for trading clubhouse cancer is pretty retarded, but then that's what I expect from the scum in that city.

Good stuff. So the inbred douche Boston fans are blaming the FO for trading Manny? Where? On NYYFans? WEEI?

Maybe some are. That said, I don't know a single Sox fan who has said anything other than trading Manny was a necessary evil and that Bay was a helluva return under the difficult circumstances.

Then again, Boston is teeming with fans that are evil, deliverance babies, so maybe you're right.

[effdamets]

When can he shut up?

I'm going to buy him a tape recorder for Christmas this way he can talk into it and play it back over and over just to hear himeslf.

Guess what Curt? No one gives a rat spit about what you have to say anymore...

Funny that Curt didn't say anything while Manny was anywhere near him.

[Mantle'sMutt]

Schilling is one of very few people who could convince me to feel any sympathy towards Manny. What an absolute simp.

[YASS]

When can he shut up?

I'm going to buy him a tape recorder for Christmas this way he can talk into it and play it back over and over just to hear himeslf.

Guess what Curt? No one gives a rat spit about what you have to say anymore...

Funny that Curt didn't say anything while Manny was anywhere near him.

Nothing publicly, sure, but Manny and Schilling had a celebrated dugout shoving match a few years back, didn't they? I'm sure Schilling has taken advantage of many opportunities to tell all this to Manny face-to-face.

[ksison]

Schilling may be right, but I still hate the guy

[roblyo33]

The world (at least the baseball world) would be a much better place if Curt would just go away.

[CaptainCargo]

Yeah, that would be an indictment of the Sox front office if Manny hadn't demanded to be traded just about every year since his arrival in Boston.

The Sox tried to accommodate him time and time again, but couldn't get enough value in return.

Also, if you think Manny played just as hard in Boston as he did in LA, you simply weren't paying attention.

I see your points YASS. And yeah I think most people realize Manny was/is a bit of a flake. Manny plays as hard as Manny "feels" like playing.

But how much of that "couldn't get enough value" was just a smokescreen on the Sox front office part, just because they couldn't get some team to overtrade for him?

It would seem a bit odd that every trade offer was that crappy. Wouldn't it?

And if you're the guys "trying" to trade someone, as they averred, doesn't that presuppose that you're(the Sox) going to take it in the butt a little on the trade?

I think if they had wanted to trade him they would have. I think they jerked the guy around a bit. It wouldn't be the first guy the Sox have done that to.

[effdamets]

The world (at least the baseball world) would be a much better place if Curt would just go away.

...or if he maybe just.... shut the f*ck up!

JHC!

[Reggie Smith]

Nothing publicly, sure, but Manny and Schilling had a celebrated dugout shoving match a few years back, didn't they? I'm sure Schilling has taken advantage of many opportunities to tell all this to Manny face-to-face.

They also had a visible dust-up out on the field where it was captured by a few.