If only we still had him (Torre-Mod)

[NY1996]

Part of me is sad that the Yanks didn't make it to the postseason this season. However, part of me is happy, given the fact that Torre took the Dodgers into the playoffs. It will likely go down as one of the dumbest things the Yankees ever did when they shoved Torre out the door. If they had any sense, they'd use all that extra cash they'll have laying around this offseason and throw however much $$$ it takes at Torre to get him to come back. Torre earned the right to manage in the final season at Yankee Stadium. Letting him go was a bad business decision and an even worse baseball move. I have been die-hard supporter of the Yankees for quite some time now, but must admit that I mostly kept up with them half-heartedly this season. I did make the trip from SC to see a game in Yankee Stadium and saw them lose to KC. They really just displayed no fire or grit this season. Much of that has been lacking since the loss of Paul O'Neill, but the loss of Torre pretty much wiped it out. Jeter is a gamer for sure, but he doesn't have a fiery personality like O'Neill did. The Yankees now just don't inspire me at all. They plod out onto the field and don't really look like they really care that much about what happens. All of these negative comments exclude Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettite. 6 years ago I'd throw something across the room when the Yankees lost a game. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and go on doing something else online.

[Metroidman]

Part of me is sad that the Yanks didn't make it to the postseason this season. However, part of me is happy, given the fact that Torre took the Dodgers into the playoffs. It will likely go down as one of the dumbest things the Yankees ever did when they shoved Torre out the door. If they had any sense, they'd use all that extra cash they'll have laying around this offseason and throw however much $$$ it takes at Torre to get him to come back. Torre earned the right to manage in the final season at Yankee Stadium. Letting him go was a bad business decision and an even worse baseball move. I have been die-hard supporter of the Yankees for quite some time now, but must admit that I mostly kept up with them half-heartedly this season. I did make the trip from SC to see a game in Yankee Stadium and saw them lose to KC. They really just displayed no fire or grit this season. Much of that has been lacking since the loss of Paul O'Neill, but the loss of Torre pretty much wiped it out. Jeter is a gamer for sure, but he doesn't have a fiery personality like O'Neill did. The Yankees now just don't inspire me at all. They plod out onto the field and don't really look like they really care that much about what happens. All of these negative comments exclude Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettite. 6 years ago I'd throw something across the room when the Yankees lost a game. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and go on doing something else online.

BAWWWWWWW

Poor Torre not wanting to accept being the richest manager in baseball. We offered him a contract. He still was gonna be the highest paid manager in baseball. He declined

[NY1996]

BAWWWWWWW

Poor Torre not wanting to accept being the richest manager in baseball. We offered him a contract. He still was gonna be the highest paid manager in baseball. He declined

Well, I'm no genius but how long had it been before Torre's arrival since the Yanks had made the playoffs? Hmm?? How many years during Torre's tenure did the Yankees make the playoffs? Hmm?? How did the Yankees fare in their first season without Torre? Hmm??

[OldYankeeFan]

Hmmmmmmm, I didn't know you could start a thread with 3 posts. Thought that was a good rule.

[Metroidman]

Well, I'm no genius but how long had it been before Torre's arrival since the Yanks had made the playoffs? Hmm?? How many years during Torre's tenure did the Yankees make the playoffs? Hmm?? How did the Yankees fare in their first season without Torre? Hmm??

Torre would've magically made Wang and Joba not get hurt

[hellonewman]

BAWWWWWWW

Hmm?? Hmm?? Hmm??

Not exactly Lincoln-Douglas, is it?

[NY1996]

Torre would've magically made Wang and Joba not get hurt

If you think Wang and Joba were all that ailed the Yanks this season, then you need to go watch some tapes. I'm not against any of the current guys. I think Girardi is great. But Torre had a knack for pushing the right buttons and we didn't have that this year. Am I the only one who felt as though the team was mostly lethargic all season? And the players you mentioned had nothing to do w/ the teams' hitting woes. The Steinbrenner boys are in over their heads.

[Metroidman]

If you think Wang and Joba were all that ailed the Yanks this season, then you need to go watch some tapes. I'm not against any of the current guys. I think Girardi is great. But Torre had a knack for pushing the right buttons and we didn't have that this year. Am I the only one who felt as though the team was mostly lethargic all season? And the players you mentioned had nothing to do w/ the teams' hitting woes. The Steinbrenner boys are in over their heads.

Posada was out too. It was the perfect storm of bad luck. And Torre had the knack for pushing the right buttons? Our bullpen had an insane year thanks to Girardi. Under Torre 2 would be missing arms and 2 would never have been used. You pick the 2.

[NY1996]

BAWWWWWWW

Poor Torre not wanting to accept being the richest manager in baseball. We offered him a contract. He still was gonna be the highest paid manager in baseball. He declined

And, fyi, Torre's rejection of the Yankees offer had nothing to do with the money. It had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that it was only a 1 year contract.

[NY1996]

Posada was out too. It was the perfect storm of bad luck. And Torre had the knack for pushing the right buttons? Our bullpen had an insane year thanks to Girardi. Under Torre 2 would be missing arms and 2 would never have been used. You pick the 2.

All I know is that the current collection of Yankees aren't exciting to watch in the least. I watch them and pull for them now out of sheer loyalty and duty. Maybe I'm holding on too tightly to the late 90's memories of O'Neill, Martinez, Brosius, etc. I'd take 1 Brosius over 100 A-Rods. Even though I ain't that old and the 90's aren't that long ago, maybe those are the good old days. A rare collection of players that may not ever be repeated.

[Metroidman]

All I know is that the current collection of Yankees aren't exciting to watch in the least. I watch them and pull for them now out of sheer loyalty and duty. Maybe I'm holding on too tightly to the late 90's memories of O'Neill, Martinez, Brosius, etc. I'd take 1 Brosius over 100 A-Rods. Even though I ain't that old and the 90's aren't that long ago, maybe those are the good old days. A rare collection of players that may not ever be repeated.

Fine you take a lineup of 8 Brosius and I'll take the 8 ARods

I bet you I get to the playoffs and win before if we have equal pitching.

[ajra21]

if only we still had him, we'd be moaning and bitching because he'd failed to get an injured and under performing team to the playoffs; whilst calling for a new young manager with some fire.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

: Yay! : Yay! : Yay! : Yay!

[NY1996]

Fine you take a lineup of 8 Brosius and I'll take the 8 ARods

I bet you I get to the playoffs and win before if we have equal pitching.

I just don't like A-Rod. Never have. Never will. I pull for him to do well since he's in pinstripes, but nothing about his play inspires me in the least. However, go back and watch some of Scotty's MVP performance in the 1998 World Series and you'll see the kind of fire we lack on our team.

[Yankeesfan924]

If you think Wang and Joba were all that ailed the Yanks this season, then you need to go watch some tapes. I'm not against any of the current guys. I think Girardi is great. But Torre had a knack for pushing the right buttons and we didn't have that this year. Am I the only one who felt as though the team was mostly lethargic all season? And the players you mentioned had nothing to do w/ the teams' hitting woes. The Steinbrenner boys are in over their heads.

I certainly agree that injuries weren't all that's wrong, but I definitely think that if Wang, A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and Joba hadn't missed extended periods of time, we could've won 7 more games and made the playoffs.

Also, in before the

[Yankeesfan924]

I just don't like A-Rod. Never have. Never will. I pull for him to do well since he's in pinstripes, but nothing about his play inspires me in the least. However, go back and watch some of Scotty's MVP performance in the 1998 World Series and you'll see the kind of fire we lack on our team.

You can have Scotty's inspiration, I'll take A-Rod's 150 OPS+.

[bigjf]

Hmmmmmmm, I didn't know you could start a thread with 3 posts. Thought that was a good rule.

Yeah, what happened there? That rule was still in place when I first joined...if only we still had THAT.

[NY1996]

You can have Scotty's inspiration, I'll take A-Rod's 150 OPS+.

You can have A-Rod's 150 OPS+. I'll take Scotty's World Series rings.

[NY1996]

I certainly agree that injuries weren't all that's wrong, but I definitely think that if Wang, A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and Joba hadn't missed extended periods of time, we could've won 7 more games and made the playoffs.

Also, in before the

I'm not throwing Girardi under the bus either. The simple fact is that we have been dealing with the age/injury issue for a few years now. However, come hell or high water, Torre found a way to get us to the playoffs.

[In Mo I Trust]

The Dodgers won 84 games in the regular season and Torre mismanaged their pitching in the playoffs. He had a great run here but all good things must come to an end and I think it was better for both parties that the relationship ended.

[Tifoso]

You can have A-Rod's 150 OPS+. I'll take Scotty's World Series rings.

*ding, ding, ding, ding*

[ThePinStripes]

Torre's team sucked. They were in a division that is closer to AAA than AL East. That division is a joke and it sucksl. He won 84 games. 84 mighty games in a division where no one else was above .500. Oh wait, Arizona was .506. The best team in that division, his, had a +54 run differential.

Girardi won 86 games in a division where 4 out of 5 teams were well above .500. In fact, 4/5 teams in the AL East would have won the NL West with breathing room to spare. And he did it with 1 starting pitcher, who was 39 years old, making it through the season (pettitte pitching hurt). Wang, Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, all got hurt. Their AAA call ups even got hurt. Jeter, A-rod, Posada, Damon and Matsui were all injured for significant parts of the season. That's 5/9 position players. Combine that with a worthless Melky and terrible Cano and who is left? Giambi and Abrau. Awesome. I bet Torre would have got the job done.

Torre was in the right place at the right time; he came in at the perfect time and left at the perfect time. Girardi was at the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing more.

[Yankee Tripper]

Torre was very good for the Yankees. I will not say a bad word about him but I really don't think the magerial decisions were the reason the yankees missed the post season this year.

[Metroidman]

You can have A-Rod's 150 OPS+. I'll take Scotty's World Series rings.

Put Scotty on the current Yankees and he has 0 WS rings

Put ARod on the dynasty Yankees and he'd have 3 and they'd have dominated even more

[Tifoso]

Put Scotty on the current Yankees and he has 0 WS rings

Put ARod on the dynasty Yankees and he'd have 3 and they'd have dominated even more

Not in your face, OK?

(I honestly don't know)

What are Brosius's PS stats as a Yank? ARod's?

[Metroidman]

Brosius in playoffs
.245 .278 .418

ARod in playoffs
.279 .361 .483

Clearly the problem has been ARod

Not Wang/Brown/*insert crappy pitcher*

[fredgmuggs]

When I saw the original thread title earlier today I thought this was a thread about players who got away. Silly me, I should have known better.

[Tifoso]

Brosius in playoffs
.245 .278 .418

ARod in playoffs
.279 .361 .483

Clearly the problem has been ARod

Not Wang/Brown/*insert crappy pitcher*

Thanks!

The difference has been that the 2002-now Yanks tried to slug their way to a WS; the 1996-2001 Yanks pitched their way there.

Which, slightly OT, is why we need to sign 1-2 stud SP's, and let the Mets sign Manny.

[In Mo I Trust]

Not in your face, OK?

(I honestly don't know)

What are Brosius's PS stats as a Yank? ARod's?

Brosius hit .245/.278/.415 in the playoffs as a Yankee in 196 ABs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brosisc01.shtml

[Tifoso]

Brosius hit .245/.278/.415 in the playoffs as a Yankee in 196 ABs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/brosisc01.shtml

Thank you

[Metroidman]

Thanks!

The difference has been that they 2002-now Yanks tried to slug their way to a WS; the 1996-2001 Yanks pitched their way there.

Which, slightly OT, is why we need to sign 1-2 stud SP's, and let the Mets sign Manny.

Exactly. We need pitching pitching pitching. People dont get that you wont slug your way into the WS. You need to pitch your way there. Also Scotty was an utter failure in the LCS and LDS. He showed up for the WS but that was about it. How did he get to the WS so much without hitting so much as a beachball? Gee is it the pitching or was it that ARod puts voodoo spells on pitchers to tank the playoffs?

[Tifoso]

CC, Burnett, Wang, Joba, Andy matches pretty well with

Cone, Andy, Wells, El Ducque, Irabu

Actually the starting 5 (projected) might be better than 1998.


The PS rotation would probably be better, too (either 3 or 4 man)

[Metroidman]

CC, Burnett, Wang, Joba, Andy matches pretty well with

Cone, Andy, Wells, El Ducque, Irabu

Actually the starting 5 (projected) might be better than 1998.


The PS rotation would probably be better, too (either 3 or 4 man)

Problem being that Burnett is injured far too much. Paying him 15mil per for 5yrs is a bad idea.

[Tifoso]

Problem being that Burnett is injured far too much. Paying him 15mil per for 5yrs is a bad idea.

Yeah, you might be right on that one.

[a-RobinsonCano-Fan]

Hmmmmmmm, I didn't know you could start a thread with 3 posts. Thought that was a good rule.

I think yuo can start threads on a certain amount of time also, regardless of your posts. But he only had an 07 start...

[webassign]

Torre's team sucked. They were in a division that is closer to AAA than AL East. That division is a joke and it sucksl. He won 84 games. 84 mighty games in a division where no one else was above .500. Oh wait, Arizona was .506. The best team in that division, his, had a +54 run differential.

Girardi won 86 games in a division where 4 out of 5 teams were well above .500. In fact, 4/5 teams in the AL East would have won the NL West with breathing room to spare. And he did it with 1 starting pitcher, who was 39 years old, making it through the season (pettitte pitching hurt). Wang, Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, all got hurt. Their AAA call ups even got hurt. Jeter, A-rod, Posada, Damon and Matsui were all injured for significant parts of the season. That's 5/9 position players. Combine that with a worthless Melky and terrible Cano and who is left? Giambi and Abrau. Awesome. I bet Torre would have got the job done.

Torre was in the right place at the right time; he came in at the perfect time and left at the perfect time. Girardi was at the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing more.

We won 89 games. That only further supports your post.

[THEBOSS84]

Borrowing a line from a fellow forumer



This thread makes my balls hurt.

[YankeePride1967]

Okay, so not only is Brosius better than A-Rod, the loss of Wang and Joba wasn't a factor, but the loss of Joe Torre was. Good grief.

[CptCrunch]

Well, I'm no genius but how long had it been before Torre's arrival since the Yanks had made the playoffs?

The Yankees were looking like World Series contenders in '94 before the strike, and they made the playoffs in '95.

[THEBOSS84]

The Yankees were looking like World Series contenders in '94 before the strike, and they made the playoffs in '95.

He's right about not being a genius.

[Masta Z]

torre simply cannot manage a pitching staff.
girardi is lightyears better with that

[Bostonsfavson]

I'd take 1 Brosius over 100 A-Rods

*sigh*

[-tz]

When I saw the original thread title earlier today I thought this was a thread about players who got away. Silly me, I should have known better.

I thought it was going to be about Carlos Peña. Or Dioner Navarro.

[NYYDragoon]

Not exactly Lincoln-Douglas, is it?

Most entertaining post in this thread. Congrats!

[27IsNext]

It's over. Let it go people.

[Bozidar]

If anything, the fact that we didn't make the playoffs this year with Joe Torre is a good thing. It's just 3-19 more games the players have to play and risk injury before ultimately failing to win the world series.

The yankees didn't have the product on the field to win it this year, no manager can change that.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Not in your face, OK?

(I honestly don't know)

What are Brosius's PS stats as a Yank? ARod's?

And how many go-ahead RBIs, GW RBIs, game-tying RBIs Scott Brosius had, in contrast to A-Rod's?

[Don Mack]

Part of me is sad that the Yanks didn't make it to the postseason this season. However, part of me is happy, given the fact that Torre took the Dodgers into the playoffs. It will likely go down as one of the dumbest things the Yankees ever did when they shoved Torre out the door. If they had any sense, they'd use all that extra cash they'll have laying around this offseason and throw however much $$$ it takes at Torre to get him to come back. Torre earned the right to manage in the final season at Yankee Stadium. Letting him go was a bad business decision and an even worse baseball move. I have been die-hard supporter of the Yankees for quite some time now, but must admit that I mostly kept up with them half-heartedly this season. I did make the trip from SC to see a game in Yankee Stadium and saw them lose to KC. They really just displayed no fire or grit this season. Much of that has been lacking since the loss of Paul O'Neill, but the loss of Torre pretty much wiped it out. Jeter is a gamer for sure, but he doesn't have a fiery personality like O'Neill did. The Yankees now just don't inspire me at all. They plod out onto the field and don't really look like they really care that much about what happens. All of these negative comments exclude Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettite. 6 years ago I'd throw something across the room when the Yankees lost a game. Now I just kind of shrug my shoulders and go on doing something else online.

Puhlease go root for the Dodgers then since you love Torre so much. And let me add you to my ignore list for writing such foolishness.

[Yankees Empire]

Given the various challenges the Yankees dealt with this season, I think 89 wins is pretty good.

[bigjf]

Given the various challenges the Yankees dealt with this season, I think 89 wins is pretty good.

As do I. I don't want to complain to the extent that Hank has done but if not for the strength of the AL East, the Yanks would have had a more legit shot at the wild card. I'm not making excuses, but Girardi in just his second year of managing did a fair job with the hand that was dealt. He needs to be better, as the players, media, and ownership would tell you, but I believe he is the type of guy who will work to make those adjustments.