Actually, on a Mike and the Mad Dog show I heard Lonn Trost utter that very thing. They also wanted April 18 because of the symmetry with the opening date of the old stadium but because it was on a Saturday it wouldn't work.Originally Posted by yankeebot
Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.
With the Mets opening April 14 (and not the opening week) as well leads me to believe that both teams asked for the delayed opening to give them more time to work on the stadiums.
EDIT: I see Yankeebot and Muggs explained it.
NEW link for NYYFANS companion site for politics and more: www.editorialme.com.
Interesting. Good to know that the special exhibition games they're talking about having there may be before the stadium is fully ready.
Thank you too. It will difficult, but it will be done.
It is quite simple.
Franchise: the right or license granted by a company to an individual or group to market its products or services in a specific territory.
Brooklyn was the territory granted for the Brooklyn National League franchise.
Los Angeles is the territory granted for the Los Angeles National League franchise.
It is not I who has defined the term. A scholarly, valid, accepted source defines the term.
The cheapest non-bleacher seats in Yankee Stadium were Tier Reserved seats. Going by the total number of seats in all 36 Tier Reserve sections, there were far more "cheap" (if you consider $29 a seat cheap this year) seats in the upper deck than there are going to be across the street.
The cheapest Main Reserved seats this year were something like $60 I think. In Yankee Stadium, approximately 20,000 seats are in the lower levels, comprising the Field Box, Main Box, and Main Reserve sections. There are approximately 30,000 upper deck seats including the Tier Box seats, which are more expensive than Tier Reserve seats. But keep in mind there are only 12 rows of Tier Box seats while there are 22 rows of Tier Reserve seats. And in the curved sections behind the plate and out by the foul poles, there are many more seats per row higher up in the tier. So the vast majority of these 30,000 seats are in the lower price level.
Across the street, those numbers will be reversed. There will be only 20,000 upper deck seats and 30,000 lower level seats. So even independent of any price level increases, they just took 10,000 seats that were $29 in 2008 and stuck them downstairs where they'll be at least $60 in 2009.
Best case scenario (for you and the Yankees), 20% of the available seats just doubled in price. So don't give me some crap about 90% of the tickets being the same.
Then add in the fact that capacity is being decreased significantly (the Yankees have been deliberately vague about the exact reduction) and that 4300 seats are going to have absolutely obscene prices attached to them, and it just became a lot harder for Joe Q. Public to see a baseball game at a reasonable price. There have been many occasions in recent years in which the least expensive tickets available at the box office on the day of a game were $100 seats behind home plate. It happens that way often, because the games in question were sold out, but the $100 more expensive seats were held back until the last minute in case "special" people wanted them. When the special people didn't want them, they were made available to "normal" people, i.e., "civilians."
I think $100 is an outrageous price to see a baseball game, but it's very much in line with the prices at other sporting events and concerts, and is still basically affordable to a substantial percentage of people. That won't exist next year, because the same seats that were $100 in 2008 are going to be $850 in 2009. So I'm not willing to brush aside the fact that 4300 seats are going to have extremely obscene price increases. Some of them are going to be $2500 per seat.
Besides, I'm sure there will be slight increases for each ticket, probably $2-$10 each, as there are most years, independent of the team moving to a new facility.
I don't think he really cares how much parking costs, because he's not going there.
Besides, the city operates all the public garages, and aside from the garage that's actually going to be attached to Mullally Park, my best guess would be that the city will continue to operate the public garages. The only difference is instead of garage 8 being the best place to park, garage 3 will be.
As discussed earlier in the thread, the beam that fell in 1998 was an isolated incident, and Yankee Stadium has been inspected and declared safe repeatedly since then.
This is a discussion for another thread, but "actual real-life baseball" doesn't exist anymore in the mind of a true baseball purist. Everyone acknowledges that the game has changed dramatically over the years. Not everyone likes this new game that's being played in the modern era. Not everyone would even consider it "baseball." In a sense, it's only appropriate that the Yankees leave their House of Worship (when praying to baseball Gods) and move into a fake facility to play a fake game that occasionally more resembles an entertainment spectacle than a genuine sporting competition.
BTW, the restrooms in Yankee Stadium were always clean when the gates opened to the public. It was the people who made them filthy by peeing all over the floor. Then, after the game, work crews cleaned up the mess. The next day, when the gates opened, they were sparkling again. The fans again made a disgusting mess. I hate when people try to blame their own transgressions on the victim (in this case Yankee Stadium) rather than accepting responsibility for their actions. Yankee Stadium didn't make you pee on the floor. You did that by choice. It doesn't mean a new ballpark is necessary. All it means is that you have to change the culture of what's socially acceptable when using the bathroom facilities in a large stadium or arena. Maybe that culture will change next year, I don't know. I think there's a good chance that culture will be carried across the street, and people will continue peeing on the floor. If they don't, I think it's a sad commentary on society that it takes a new $1.3 billion facility to get people to stop peeing on the floor.
Some of the improvements at Fenway are nice (e.g. the dining area behind the seats in right field), but the place remains a disaster in many other ways. I was there are few weeks ago for a game that was eventually rained out, and you had to dodge some puddles that were deep and pretty nasty in an interior part of the park on the 3rd base side.
As someone else said above, Fenway will be torn down eventually. The sox are just buying time for themselves with the changes that they are making to the park.
Renovations can only go so far. I will miss the old stadium but I can't wait to see a Yankee game in the new one.
Yes, they could have renovated again, even after the collapse in 98. Even just maintaining the outer structure and rebuilding the seating area would have been better than what they are doing. It was good enough for the White House, which is a bit older than Yankee Stadium. That was literally rebuilt from the inside out and was in significantly worse shape than the stadium!
We aren't as naive as you think we are. Nobody is saying its not a for profit business. With that in mind, a big part of the appeal and selling point of the Yankees is the tradition. People all over the world want Yankee merchandise because of the history and tradition.
Pride, another tradition of the Yankees is obviously not as valuable these days either. They proved that this season with the shameless whoring out of official last season merchandise. There's no pride in that at all. The Yanks have turned into high priced hookers and Brandon Steiner is their pimp.
The argument that the first class organization needs a first class facility would make sense, but I can't see whats classy about this whole thing. Modern technology and more dining options does not equal class. Wider concourses and more bathrooms does not equal class. Just because its new, expensive, and has bells and whistles does not make it classy or elegant.
They are demolishing Yankee Stadium so they can make more money in their shiny new brothel of baseball. There is absolutely nothing classy about that.
[edit: thanks for the quote Lurker!]
haven't read many of the posts in this thread nor i know much about the reasons behind the move. i wish they hadn't done it but what's done is done.
Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away; 'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...
I heard that too, why can't they have opening day on a Saturday? I have some ideas, but I don't want to be a Negative Nancy.
People keep saying its not the same park because of the renovation. Lets look at the history that's been made at the renovated park since 1976..
6 World Championships
10 Pennants
18 playoff appearances.
6 no hitters including 2 perfect games.
4 consecutive 4 million attendance seasons.
There are no other ballparks in baseball that has seen that many historic events.
I know Ruth, Gehrig, Joe D and Mickey did not play there but the renovated Stadium is historic enough to have been alowed to continue as the Yankees home.
I think because they usually schedule an off game after Opening Day in event the game is cancelled and they simply move it to the next day. It would be problematic to schedule it for a Saturday because they wouldn't schedule an off day for a Sunday and they wouldn't want to risk not scheduling an off day in event of a cancellation.
Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.
But next season there will not be an off day after the opener.
Well then... never mind.
Who knows? All I know is he said neither the Yankees nor MLB liked Saturday. Any other theories?
Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.
Well, yeah, it kind of does. I will admit, my old memories of the pre-renovated Stadium are few (any games I saw there - and there were quite a few - took place between the ages of four and six. I remember seeing games but not a whole lot of details about them. I DO remember being intimidated by the sheer size of the place when you sat in the upper deck, and that the grass always looked bad for some reason, like it was dry and dying - even in the middle of summer. I have more memories of Yankee games at Shea (yuck) since I was a little bit older then.
My Dad's opinions were based on seeing the Stadium HE grew up in get gutted and having all the life stripped from the place (in HIS opinion). He always had a funny line: he used to say, "they took a grand ballpark and turned it into a Venetian Blind". I never quite knew what that meant but I laughed at it nonetheless! Regardless, he didn't let the renovation keep him from going to games or supporting the team.
I am exaggerating a bit - he didn't bitch EVERY time...but he would engage the young'uns that would sit around us with occasional baseball talk (my Dad saw all the greats play and loved to talk about specific games, where he sat, etc.) and he would occasionally say stuff like, "You should have seen this place before they wrecked it", but he wasn't obsessed by it. In fact throughout the 90s I never heard him complain about it anymore.
We always used to talk about the concept of a NEW "Yankee Stadium" and he used to say that he hoped if they ever built one they "did it better this time". I think he would have loved the new place...it saddens me that he didn't live long enough to see it.
Lots of people say po-TAY-to...some say po-TAH-to. I think I might have too many non-baseball problems to lose sleep over a new Yankee Stadium. If anything, it sounds like a good idea to me, 33 years in the making.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
And I am asking your opinion on whether you think the Brooklyn and LA Dodgers are one franchise. AND. I am asking your opinion as to whether you think the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves are one franchise.
Simple questions that you seem to want to complicate.
See look: My opinion: The LA Dodgers are the same franchise as the Brooklyn Dodgers, they just moved. The Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves are one franchise. The NY/SF Giants are one franchise.
See? Easy. My opinion. I am asking yours.
Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's; New York Knights.
I believe Lou is saying that it's not a matter of opinion or what he or anyone thinks - it's a matter of the definition of franchise. And that the way franchise is defined, neither of those constitute a single franchise. So just as it's not a matter of whether or not we "think" the yankees play in the bronx, it's not a matter of whether or not Lou thinks those teams are different franchises. It is a defined fact not subject to opinion. And it is a matter of definition that each time they move, one franchise ends and another begins.
In kind of an ironic way, I think your father and I are not too dissimilar.
Hah you're welcome, I knew that line would get a response.
We all have opinions on things; I am asking his on this...
...someone can ask you, "Do you think oral sex is sex?"...you wouldn't need to quote a law, just give your opinion...so here I am asking his opinion on a question...really doesn't have to be complicated. He's just making it so.
Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's; New York Knights.
Here is another accepted definition:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/franchise
The Dodgers team and its operating organization were unchanged after moving to Los Angeles from Brooklyn. They just changed their home base. They are the same franchise in a professional sports sense.
3 a: the right of membership in a professional sports league b: a team and its operating organization having such membership
Would you rather see a banner at Citi Field that says "New York Mets - 1955 World Series Champions"?
Are today's Cleveland Browns the same ones that Jim Brown played for?
Didn't Modell take all his players with him to Baltimore?
The Boston Braves were a different franchise from the Milwaukee franchise which was different from the Atlanta franchise.
Thank you very much.
The link has the following:
c (1): the right or license granted to an individual or group to market a company's goods or services in a particular territory ; also : a business granted such a right or license (2): the territory involved in such a right
By the way, your last sentence, " Would you rather see a banner at Citi Field that says 'New York Mets - 1955 World Series Champions'?" is hitting below the belt.
You can take your franchise definitions or anything else you want, but when you are writing to someone who has been a Yankee since 1951 and who lived through 1955, 1969, 1973, and 1986, don't create a hypothetical nightmare.
I will not attempt to do anything about that sentence except forget it.
I think the third definition (which I quoted) is more applicable to a sports team than the second definition (above). Also, who's to say you can't change the territory on a license?
To me, the Brooklyn/LA Dodgers, Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves, and yes the Cleveland Browns/Baltimore Ravens are the same "entity" (even if the NFL doesn't acknowledge the last one).
As it's been said, this is all opinion so I'll get off my soap box. I agree to disagree.
Fair enough.
Some places are worth renovating from the inside out instead of rebuilding from the ground up.
Sure, if you want to build around the same skeleton again...for the second time...and play in a different Stadium for 2-3 years...lose concession money...make Yankee fans go to Queens...realize that you can't build OUT from the inside due to space limitiations on the current lot...so you'll have the same cramped interior areas...OR you build from the ground up RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET and not miss any seasons at all in the Bronx...
This is what really kills me. So, it would be OK if they completely gutted the place, built what they are building NOW and tossed everything in the Hudson River, as long as the same plot space was used??? Am I the only one that is perplexed by the rationale of this?
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
You certainly are not.
The majority of fans who don't want the Yankees to lose some revenues for two years are unwilling to have the Yankees and their fans pay a price for a short time period. They want them to pay a higher price forever.
It's similar to the educational system in the greatest country in the history of personkind that lowers standards or makes examinations easier in order to allow individuals to "succeed."
A student who might become a competent accountant in the future takes fewer courses, graduates earlier, and pays the price the rest of her life.
The Yankees are unwilling to renovovate Yankee Stadium ... anyway, you know the rest.
That picture is awesome. Do you have more like it?
Some places are worth renovating from the inside out instead of rebuilding from the ground up.
Its the White House renovation during the Truman Presidency. Check out his Presidential Library online.
Exactly. I'd rather 2 years to preserve/renovate Yankee Stadium than a lifetime of the fraud accross the street. They considered building a new White House instead of renovating during the Truman era, and that place was in MUCH worse shape than Yankee Stadium! They obviously made the right choice by keeping the old one and renovating.
ohhhhIt looked like Yankee Stadium just inside Gate 4 to me. I figured they probably gutted more there because of the press box and luxury suites they added than anywhere else in the ballpark.
The difference being that I'm pretty sure my Dad would have been ecstatic to see the mistakes of the 70s renovation fixed, even if the fix was across the street (we'd disussed the concept of the Yankees moving to a new Stadium many times and he always said "as long as they did it right this time"). Either way, he wouldn't have allowed what was going on now to prevent him from going there, or as I have seen in some extreme cases, rooting for the team.
As old school as my Dad was (anyone who was in the Normandy Invasion on D-Day is old school and awesome by definition) he had an admirable ability to embrace change, not fear it. I guess some of that rubbed off on me.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
Change for the wrong reasons (see signature below) is not to be embraced, especially when the cost is so high in this case.
You are right. It was realized that the White House had to be rebuilt when Truman's piano fell through the floor.
In my eyes, the most irrefuteable argument, backed by numbers, analysis and independent thinking, against the totally illogical claim that the price of 90% of the seats in the "Even Newer" Yankee Stadium will not be increasing...
Yes, after taking out of the argument the 4,300 seats with the insane prices, the remaining 90% of seats WILL have roughly the same price--if you look at it section-by-section. Tier reserved prices might not be going up, but when 1/3 of those seats are taken away and put down in a section where the price is double what they were above, you're increasing prices! The tier box prices might be the same, the main reserved seat prices might be the same, even the bleacher seat prices might be the same--but when you completely reconfigure how many seats are in each section, saying prices aren't changing is a VERY disingenious argument, one that is complete refuted if you actually USE YOUR HEAD and THINK for a minute......................
The chances of Average Joe getting seats for just a couple of games next year (no season plan involved) at close to the same price as this past season just went down dramatically! That, my friends, is the plain and simple truth........
That doesn't mean I'm not in favor of the new Stadium--maybe it is completely illogical on my part, but what matters to me is the ground--I wanted first base to still be where it is now, center field to be where it is now, the famous address of 161st Street and River Ave. Whether that means you tear down Yankee Stadium and build an exact replica of it with all the modern amenities, or renovate the current one again, doesn't matter to me. It's not so much the building they play in, as the ground they play on....
To paraphrase Joe DiMaggio..."Every day, I thank the good lord for making me a Yankee fan"
THERE IS MORE TO BASEBALL THAN JUST NUMBERS!!!!
some folks just never want things to change. get them some meds and move on, tbh..
Why would us public pee-ons think? Arent we supposed to believe and not question everything that comes out of Lonn trusts mouth. Anyone who for a second was buying that vebal diaheria about 90% of the seats in NYS are staying the same I have a bridge for sale... very cheap!
Keep the bridge for a while and buy yourself a river. They'll sell better as a package.
If the argument is that, although most of the seat prices will not be increased, they'll be somewhat more difficult to obtain because there are fewer of them, well, that's a legitimate argument. Since the new ballpark seats fewer than the old ballpark, and some defined number of seats will be priced outside the purchasing ability of ordinary people, there will be more competition for seats, so even though the bulk of the seats are priced on the same level as similar seats in the old stadium, aftermarket prices are likely to rise some.
But if you're in the habit of buying seats from StubHub, you're paying through the nose anyway, so ... expect to drill out the nostrils just a bit. If you're successful in buying tickets from the box office, it probably won't cost you any more than it did this year.
Watch this space for a pithy new signature, now under construction!
Last year my tier seats were $12 plus tax, thei year the grandstand are going to be $20
The cheapest price for Tier Reserve in 2008 was $20 and that was the full season or B plan price.
$12?? wtf
Merry f'ing Christmas
And you are 100% wrong. I have a partial plan in which my tier reserve tickets were $12 in section 9. They were $10 the year before. Those same seats, if I can get them, are $25 dollars next year.
I wonder why they advertised them differently then. http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/b...ng_pricing.jsp
I also shared a B-plan coincidentally in sec. 9 and I didn't pay $12 so I have no idea how you did. Sec 9 is even Tier MVP and cost more than Tier Reserve.
Does this bridge have all the modern amenities of a new bridge? Is it an HOK bridge? Is there a mammoth HDTV? Cupholders? The Hard Rock Cafe and a Martini Bar? How many luxury suites and boxes? How many restrooms and concession stands?
Dieting isn't a piece of cake.
Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball" --Jacques Barzun
I have a mid week E plan which in 2007 was $10 per seat. Last year its was increased to $20 for new plan holders, however I and many others were grandfathered and were increased 20% (from 10 to 12 dollars). A simliar location will cost me $25 next year.
I think Art and BRNX are talking about the E plan that was the 8 game package for $12 in Tier Reserve (I had it in the bleachers).
BTW: The cheapest seats in the Stadium were the $5 games in Tier Box, Tier Reserve, and the bleachers, which were only available on an individual game basis (no partial plan; season ticket & partial plan holders paid regular face value). They also had a few mini discount packages for 3-6 predetermined games which I think went for 1/2 of the face value of the tickets. I wonder what will become of those $5 games and discount packages.
Dieting isn't a piece of cake.
Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball" --Jacques Barzun
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