It didn't have to happen. It didn't happen in despised Boston, and it didn't happen in Chicago. Yankees' fans were sold a lie, and they couldn't wait to buy it. The fans had absolutely NO SAY in the matter, but most refuse to acknowledge that fact.
Link
A New Stadium is only new until it opens. Then it's old.
I love that there is a new stadium with modern amenities. I mean honestly, grass is replaced and how many people actually saw Ruth, Gehrig, and Mantle play there? It's a very small percentage.
Why should the fans have a say? They don't own the Stadium. The Parks Department does. Let's say you bought Abraham Lincoln's old house and wanted to build a mansion on it. Would you listen to someone who came and said to you "I want a say. This is part of history and I read about this fella. Don't do it."
I was up in Fenway in 99 when the plans for the new Fenway were in the scorecard etc. The Mass people made a stink and they maximized their profits in original Fenway. The Yanks could've done this but they hired the rightman to get a new stadium "Randy Levine" thats wy he is there, he isnt a baseball person he knew/knows the ins & outs of NYC politics & red tape. Steinbrenner wanted a new stadium since the 80's and he got it. But the famous line "be careful what you wish for" couldnt be more true with the way the economy is tanking. All of the business' (Wall St) that the Steins were/are marketing to are going out of business or arent going to spend $800,000 on four seats per season. SO this may blow up in their face. There is nothing we can do at this point so we might as welll accept what we are given. Those who go will go.Originally Posted by LouGehrig
Something tells me that Lincolns house is probably landmarked.
But taxes helped finance about $1 billion so far.
And aren't we told it is OUR team?
I have mixed feelings on this. I wish they would have kept the old stadium and renovated it but I have to admit it will be great to have the new amenities esp the wide walkways. I don't however, like when "non-baseball, finance" people like Levine get involved. I think it ruins a lot of things including getting rid of historic Yankee Stadium.
Merry f'ing Christmas
Anyone who thinks Wrigley or Fenway will last forever is delusional. Eventually those old structures will come down, too.
I think teams should get new parks every 30-40 years or so, lest they become more associated with their stadium than for what they do on the field.
Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's; New York Knights.
Similar to getting a new wife or husband every few years?
If I had been given a say in this, I would have given two thumbs-up.
Don't kid yourself - the Red Sox would LOVE to get a new ballpark. So would the Cubs (remember a few years ago when they had to install nets to keep concrete from falling on people? THAT was fun: Get Hit On The Head With Cement Day at Wrigley). No matter what anyone says, eventually THEY will get new stadiums, too. You can only put so many Band-Aids on a gaping wound until you have to give in and get stitches.
Yeah, yeah, yeah we have heard all about it...the Yankees didn't HAVE to get a new Stardium...they COULD have renovated...they COULD have played in Shea for three years (even though there won't be a Shea to play in)...they COULD have played in Macombs Dam park...etc, etc, etc.
The bottom line is they COULD have done all of this - but they DIDN'T. The team needed to acknowledge that the 1970's renovation was a crappy, slap-dash job done on a limited budget (it was) that took away all the character of the original Stadium without fixing one aesthtic problem other than removing the sight obstructions. There was still tiny aisles, limited ameneties, nasty bathrooms, overcrowded walkways and more isuues - and it took them 37 years to finally remedy that.
The new Stadium will be more like the OLD pre-renovation Yankee Stadium than this one EVER was, both in class and grandure. Yeah - they COULD have done ANOTHER renovation to the hulk on the same GPS coordinates as the current Yankee Stadium - but if you can build a NEW structure from scratch and get it built exactly to the spec you want - and in addition, have it built ACROSS THE STREET - you go for it. To do otherwise would be crazy.
Building over the current structure would have limited the organization to the same space constrictions it had to work with last time. This time, it would have taken even LONGER, because they would have rebuilt from the ground up - NOT around an 85-year-old skeleton.
Eventually, people are going to need to accept that there is a new, beautiful, grand, modern Stadium coming and it is coming next year. It will correct the transgressions of the recent past and restore the grandure of the distant past while upgrading considerably in many areas.
Despite all the hand-wringing and flowery blogging, this is a GOOD thing.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
What lie were fans sold? I mean, there was a lack of clear information about just how much public funding was going into the new stadium, but for the most part I think everyone knew what was going on. The yanks wanted a new stadium with more luxury boxes. The city was willing to kick in a bunch of corporate welfare to help them do it. One would really have to have their head in the sand not to have seen all that pretty clearly, so who was lied to?
Of course the fans had no say. Who refuses to acknowledge that?
Home is where the heart is.
I don't believe for a second that concrete and steel arranged in a particular way has any spiritual significance; the old ballpark has historical value, sure, but you seem to value Yankee Stadium as history more than you value Yankee Stadium as a functional and aesthetic place to play and watch baseball. For those purposes (the ones that really count), the new ballpark is vastly superior to the old.
Pay proper respect to the history, but don't let it keep you from living in the present. I think the Yankees have done this.
Watch this space for a pithy new signature, now under construction!
I like that.
Yankee Stadium has approximately 53 luxury boxes, including the Loge suites. Mullally Park is going to have what, 57? 59? Something like that.
So basically, you're getting new concrete, a shiny new replay board, wider concourses, and obscene price increases for ordinary field box seats behind home plate, while ownership gets an additional 4-6 luxury boxes and a whole hell of a lot of extra retail space.
I hope you enjoy your new shiny toy that looks pretty on the surface but is totally hollow inside. That it cost upwards of $1 billion in public money after the formal announcement that it would be privately-funded is nothing short of a travesty. Some people find the amount to be obscene, which it is, but I find the lying to be even worse.
The rest of my thoughts have already been posted in a different thread, so I'll just link it here instead of wasting my energy typing everything out again.
http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114316
Post #19 in that thread efficiently summarizes everything else I said throughout the entire thread.
What are you talking about? The luxury suite capacity of the new park is a massive increase over the existing park. If you're going to post so much about the change in stadiums, you should probably at least try to understand some basic facts.
How many luxury boxes are there going to be next year?
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/b...comparison.jsp
Again, more lies... it says there are only 19 luxury suites in Yankee Stadium, but that's only counting the ones below the press box. It's not counting the 28-30 that have been added in the last 10-15 years. Remember the Budweiser announcing booth in section 15 where you could announce an inning of the game and have it recorded? That space was converted into a luxury suite, as were several other spaces in the loge level.
HUGE difference between a Loge Suite and a Luxury Suite. And what they can charge for them
"We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction. Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston. It is understandable, but wrong that he would try to deflect the accountability for his mistakes on to others and to a system for which he voted in favor. It is time to get on with life and forget the sour grapes."
Do you know what the prices were? I know loge suites were going for around $6,000-$10,000 a game, depending on the size. Some had higher capacities than others. Figure half a million each for the entire season, conservatively. How does that compare to the prices of the 18 luxury suites below the press level behind the plate?
Still doesn't change the fact that virtually all prices are going up next year. I'd be curious to know if the total increase in revenue from 2008 to 2009 is mostly attributed to the extra amenities in the facility itself, or in the increased prices of everything. It would have to be an elaborate analysis, but any decent accountant should be able to figure it out if given the relevant information.
I'm thinking that a substantial enough portion of the increase will come from simply raising prices that it can be argued that similar price increases in the current Yankee Stadium would have yielded a similar increase in total revenue.
Do you even read the links you post? This stuff is really pretty straightforward.
true....
You're on the Mark, Teixeira!
09 Yankees Champions of baseball!
Dude, come on. Speaking for myself, I don't even remotely equate my status as a Yankee fan with my loyalty to my wife. I plan to live and die with my wife, not the New York Yankees.
I do see that you have a legit gripe. The Yanks are worth, what $1.3 Billion with the YES Network adding even more? If any organization can afford to build their own stadium/complex/whatever, it would be the Yankees. I was and still am completely against any public financing of privately owned sports clubs, because when it comes time for that team to skip town, the public that paid hundreds of millions of clams for the stadium have ZERO say in the team staying or leaving. I don't buy into the hollow "It's your team too" arguement.
On a side note, I thought it was a despicable move by Steinbrenner to threaten to build a stadium in Jersey when the debate was still alive & he was getting resistance. I've seen other clubs (Houston Rockets, Milwaukee Brewers), try this and unfortunately get their way WITH public financing of the new stadium.
I LOVE New York!!!
VIVE LA FRANCE!!!
Very little of it is straight forward.
What exactly is a "party suite?" And why aren't the loge suites in the current Stadium listed anywhere on that chart?
Why does the total capacity of the current Stadium that's listed not include the people who rent luxury boxes and suites, but the total capacity listed for Mullally Park does include these numbers, plus standing room only?
Numbers can be manipulated. I should have known that someone would take the Yankees' lies at face value when I used that link. Shame on me.
Is it just me, or do the people longing for the preservation of the (now) Old Yankee Stadium remind you of the people who still long for the Brooklyn Dodgers or the old Penn Station?
It's gone....time to finish grieving and move on....
Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's; New York Knights.
Mass people making a stink had nothing to do with saving Fenway. What saved Fenway was new ownership. Old ownership always wanted a new park.
If the Yanks similarly changed ownership, the same thing may have happened.
According to their website, they are going from 19 to 56 private luxury suites, and will have 410 party suites.
I know they're purposely being vague as to where exactly the money is going to and from, but I really would be interested in seeing a comprehensive list of how much in public and third-party funds are paying for what projects, and if and how these funds are going to be paid back.I hope you enjoy your new shiny toy that looks pretty on the surface but is totally hollow inside. That it cost upwards of $1 billion in public money after the formal announcement that it would be privately-funded is nothing short of a travesty. Some people find the amount to be obscene, which it is, but I find the lying to be even worse.
Dieting isn't a piece of cake.
Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball" --Jacques Barzun
Also, from what I understand, there is no place else in Boston the Red Sox can play, either for a new ballpark, or for ~2 years while they renovate or rebuild. I say they just forfeit 81 games each of those two years.
Dieting isn't a piece of cake.
Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball" --Jacques Barzun
Well you have finally started to get at least something right, so I suppose it would be unfair to deny credit where it's due.Very little of it is straight forward.
What exactly is a "party suite?" And why aren't the loge suites in the current Stadium listed anywhere on that chart?
Why does the total capacity of the current Stadium that's listed not include the people who rent luxury boxes and suites, but the total capacity listed for Mullally Park does include these numbers, plus standing room only?
Numbers can be manipulated. I should have known that someone would take the Yankees' lies at face value when I used that link. Shame on me.
Yeah, that's what I said... they're lying.
So you admit that the information on the Yankees' website is false. Hooray!
I'm not one to concern myself with whats already happened, as opposed to whats gonna happen. The old YS is finished, while the new one will be open in 2009.
No amount of complaining will change it. Might as well focus on the present and the future.
Jesus Montero since June 1 (286 at-bats):
.325/.386/.605/.991
July 1 (182 at-bats):
.348/.417/.658/1.075
You seem a little light on reading comp.
I'm confused.
Dieting isn't a piece of cake.
Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball" --Jacques Barzun
Fans always have a say - just stay home and watch the game on TV if you don't like the new ballpark. I was at the Phillies ballpark this week and it got me think how much nicer and better it will be next year to have a concourse that is double the width with a lot better eating. I was the game 9/20 game and participated in a fan survey the Yankeees were running at the stadium.. I forget most the questions now , but I do remember picking Outback as one of the eateries that I would like to see in New Yankee Stadium.
Big E , disagree. You forget we are talking about hallowed ground: first base where Lou stood, home plate where Dickey, Munson and Yogi caught, and center field where Joe D. Mantle and Bernie tracked down fly balls.
It is a national landmark where greed killed Mystique and Aura.
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." Walt Disney
I'm going to meet you halfway. The old stadium may have been completely renovated, but everything from the mid-waist to the bedrock piers remained, if I remember correctly, which means much of the foundation from 1923 still remained. It's an outdated place, with seats for 20th century-sized folks. I would have rather had the team play at Shea for 2 years, or the new City Field for 2 years, then tear down the stadium all the way and start over in the same place. Too late now.
Let the kids play.
Why do people keep saying the new park will look more like the original stadium than the renovated stadium did?
The new park has an upper tier section half the size of the ones in the original and renovated stadiums. And far less affordable seating.
Maybe I could accept the new park more if it had been built with the average fan in mind and not as a ballpark primary for the rich. Look at any of the new parks built since 1991 and they all have more upper deck seats than the new stadium will have.
The New YS- "The House That GREED Built!"
Perfectly stated. No more words need to be stated. Commence locking of this thread.
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them." Walt Disney
Which is totally different from the old one, that one was built for the malnourished children
Renovation might have cost 2/3 of what a new stadium costs.... its a really really tough and long procedure if its done right. It often takes extra work because you have to be incredibly careful not to break the pieces you are trying to keep, even though they have been heavily beaten down by weather and building stresses and old building techniques were inferior.
And you get something that doesn't last as long as a new stadium and is still going to have many of the problems of the old. And playing at Shea/Citi for two years? Its easy to say "oh it wouldnt be a big deal" now, but come on. It would suck
I will throw my two cents in on the subject at hand. I love the Yanks, I love going to the stadium and seeing the game but my seats are really tight and when i want to get food or drinks there are alot of crowding in the walk ways. When i am standing online all i can think about is why is it that when i travel to other cities and the great ballparks that other teams now have, i dont have this problem. Folks this is the Yankees Orginization!! We are the most hallowed team in all of sports, we draw 4 million people + every year. WE think the world series is our birthright! WHy shouldnt we have the best stadium? We deserve it, as much as i enjoyed the old stadium, i look forward to a new home. So what if its a block away from the old stadium. The yankees will be playing there. Jeter Arod Mariano Posada, the pinstripes, the interlocking NY.
IM sure veterans stadium held moments for phillie fans, but i bet they all went wayside when they stepped into Citizens bank park. Or giants fans leaving the stick for pac bell( or whatever its called now).
I have made peace with the fact that the place where i asked my wife to marry me will be torn down, i said my good bye to the stadium, now i welcome the new stadium with open arms.
AS for the ticket prices going up, just wait they will come down if the market is going under and companies dont spend, how many of you bought tickets in the late 80's or early 90's, but afte winning became an every year thing tickets went back up. thats my two cents make change!
I think it was more of a combination of kevin brown's pitching and johnny damons grand slam that led to the killing of mystique and aura but i could be wrong!
Hallowed ground? We're not talking about a cemetery, house of worship or Ground Zero. It's a ballpark.
Geographically, yes, it's the same GPS location where Gehrig, Dickey, Yogi, et. al. played...but it's not the same dirt, or same grass. Ruth and Gehrig would probably walk into that place and wonder where Yankee Stadium went, and what is this place they are calling Yankee Stadium?
It's a ballpark. I've been there over 100 times. Will it be weird going to Yankee games in a different park? Of course.
But I am really looking forward to it, too...
Fantasy Baseball: Larrupin' Lou's; New York Knights.
Maybe people should stop focusing so much on all the awesome food they're going to eat at the ballpark next year and go on a diet.
You're right - they're not the same. Not the same at all.
I'm only speculating here, but I think it's possible that some of them may have been brainwashed by the Yankees' media propaganda machine.
The fact of the matter is that Mullally Park is a "cookie cutter" HOK Sport stadium whose only real distinctions from all the other "fake-old" modern ballparks are the replica of the original facade and an outer design that slightly resembles the original Yankee Stadium, despite being constructed of an entirely different type of material that's not at all faithful to the original.
http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=70
The facade in the original Yankee Stadium was hung high up on the roof, and from a distance looked almost as if it was hanging in mid-air. In Mullally park, the installation of lights above the facade take away from its effect, but even worse, it's set back and only hangs over a small handful of the highest rows in the highest section of the upper deck. No matter how excited some people are about it, it's a fake imposter, and a very poor one at that.
It's going to be amusing when they celebrate something like the 50th anniversary of the new Stadium and people are STILL walking around going, "BUT...BUT...BUT THEY COULDA BUILT ON TOP OF THE OLD STADIUM WHILE THE NEW STADIUM WAS BUILT FROM PRE-FABRICATED PRESSBOARD...LIES! ALL OF IT - LIES!!!".
THE NEW YANKEE STADIUM IS OPENING NEXT YEAR. All this Flux Capacitor hindsight complaining is ridiculous. Good for the Yankees. It's state of the art yet classic looking. They had a chance to do this and took the opprotunity. I know it sucks that each and evey person wasn't consulted about this, but guess what? We don't own the Yankees.
As far as I can see, HOK does NOT build "cookie cutter" parks and there's NOTHING "cookie cutter" about this new Stadium. If ANYTHING, it has more character than the 70s renovated Yankee Stadium. I didn't know that building new stadiums with distinctive features was considered "fake". I always assumed that was a distinction reserved for perfectly-round multi-use stadiums from the early-70s.
Oh yeah, and the new Stadium is called Yankee Stadium as well.
The old saying says - you can make some people happy but you can't please everybody. This is Exhibit A. If the choice is enjoying something new and special that fixes transgressions of the 70s or being constantly miserable, then slap my rump and call me happy.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
You're free to call it whatever you want. I will never call it that.
You're free to be happy but I will not slap your rump. Some people are more concerned with principle than rump slapping.
I know I only hurt myself out of spite.
I guess I'd rather be a martyr tonight.
It's my decision.
I can't wait until next season to read the posts of fans complaining that since the upper tier is so much smaller in the new park that they can't get tickets and they can't afford the extremely high cost of getting seats in the new larger lower deck. All the wider seats and concourses and food courts mean nothing if there is almost no affordable seating for the average fan who can't afford a full season plan.
Why do we have medicine? When I had my back surgery when I was 12 in 1968, there were kids in iron lungs born three years before me that had polio before the vaccine was developed.
Lou, I'm sure that you don't have a dial up phone any more and have running water.
I'm going to get screwed in the new stadium but my section flooded every time it rained . Something had to be done.The Stadium as most of us know is thirty years old.
Me, too.
Those who can — do. Those who can’t — criticize.
Weird post is weird.
All good things come to an end. It's sad to see the stadium go but times change. But I will never forget attending my first big league game in Yankee stadium.
Now it's time to let it go and start a new tradition in the new park - one that our kids will remember when they grow old - and hope that the same thing doesn't happen to them (going to a new ballpark).
That's where you went wrong man, you made these assumptions, and it was all built on a bed of lies. Rotten, dirty lies!
For all the haters on the new stadium, I have something to tell you now listen closely.
We are getting a new stadium whether you like it or not!!! if you dont like it then stay at home watch on tv, dont go to the games, if it makes you mad that we are tearing down the old stadium. Tough. unless your last name is Steinbrenner, you have no say only opinions.
I dont think the boss is concerned that much with what every fan has to say.
You think met fans are sad to see shea go, NO they want a new place. IF it means that much to you all go root for the cubs and their old stadium!
Its a stadium, where the YANKEES play. They could play in the middle of 5th avenue for all i care and they would still be my team.
I cant wait for the people saying i wish we rebuilt the stadium on that exact piece of land to go to the new place and just drool over how great it is. I for one will celebrate the new stadium and help the Yanks welcome it with open arms.
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