Ban the notion of dismissing "early" losses

[Nuke LaLoosh]

Every season I find myself debating with other fans the idea of not worrying about losses in April and May (sometines June too). We have all seen the posts casually writing off losses to bad teams as somehow unimportant because it's "early", with added emphasis of , "we haven't even hit the ASB" and other nonsense.

I post for your consdieration:

April:
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE

May:
Yanks lose 2 of 4 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL

Those teams are currently a combined 219-256 or .460. If we just win each of those series (1 more win per) we are in a dead heat with Boston going into the final series.

If you factor in another 2-2 series with KC and 1-2 with CIN in June and one more win each puts us up two games with four to play. My point is just this simple, every game counts the same. I can't stand reading posts dismissing a loss (any loss) simply becasue of the date. They all matter.

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

[jeterdaman]

I say the same thing every year. I'm sure the Twins, White Sox, Phillies, Mets, Brewers all feel the same way as well right now.

[flymick24]

ok, let's do it:

BANNED!

[THEBOSS84]

It's the second time in the last few days that I've seen the Indians being mentioned as a "bad" team. The Indians are at .500 and have a run differential slightly worse than the Yanks (+54-44)

[Nuke LaLoosh]

It's the second time in the last few days that I've seen the Indians being mentioned as a "bad" team. The Indians are at .500 and have a run differential slightly worse than the Yanks (+54-44)

Fair enough, then take CLE out of the equation, add the June series for KC and CIN. My logic still holds and the winning pct for the teams mentioned abecomes .450 (214-261).

CLE aside do you disagree with the general principal of not dismissing losses becasue of when they take place?

[THEBOSS84]

Fair enough, then take CLE out of the equation, add the June series for KC and CIN. My logic still holds and the winning pct for the teams mentioned abecomes .460 (214-261).

CLE aside do you disagree with the general principal of not dismissing losses becasue of when they take place?

I agree with you 100%.

[R.V.47]

Every season I find myself debating with other fans the idea of not worrying about losses in April and May (sometines June too). We have all seen the posts casually writing off losses to bad teams as somehow unimportant because it's "early", with added emphasis of , "we haven't even hit the ASB" and other nonsense.

I post for your consdieration:

April:
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE

May:
Yanks lose 2 of 4 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL

Those teams are currently a combined 219-256 or .460. If we just win each of those series (1 more win per) we are in a dead heat with Boston going into the final series.

If you factor in another 2-2 series with KC and 1-2 with CIN in June and one more win each puts us up two games with four to play. My point is just this simple, every game counts the same. I can't stand reading posts dismissing a loss (any loss) simply becasue of the date. They all matter.

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

Excellent post. I look to those terrible performances as well as two series losses to Texas and losing a series to Pittsburgh, more than I look at games against Anahein or Boston. You gotta take care of business against bad teams. But I forgot the yankees are the only team that is excused from playing terrible in April and May because its a little chilly out.

[RI Dawg]

I'm glad someone else has pointed this out; I've been saying this for the last few years.

[Mantle'sMutt]

The time has come to Col. Klink this notion.

Diiiiiiismiiiiiiised!

[justtxyank]

Whatever Nuke. You are clearly ignorant of baseball. Those games AREN'T as important.

It's cold in April so there's nothing they can do about losing those games.

It's hot in Texas so there's nothing they can do about losing those games.

If SOMEONE (Al Gore?) would figure out how to keep the thermostat just right, the Yankees would be good to go.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Is this official?

[cupcollector99]

Whereas it's silly to say that a win in September is more important than a win in April, the season is still a little blurry for the first few weeks. Who would have guessed Tampa and Chicago? Who would have guessed how bad the Tigers, Indians and the Mariners would be?
I think what people say when they dismiss a loss in April is the fact that it's easier to steal a few games over a four month period (May-August) than it is in September. So a loss in September is more difficult to make-up than one in April, if that makes any sense.

Over the last few seasons, the Yankees have shown that they can play at a .650 clip and make up games while the other teams fight off injuries and fatigue, but they just couldn't do it this year.

It's a long season and you can't play every single of the 162 games as if they're life and death.

[RI Dawg]

It's a long season and you can't play every single of the 162 games as if they're life and death.

This is true, the season is a marathon...but, a few extra wins in April - June against teams like Pitt, Cincy, KC, etc, while not life or death, do add up when all is said and done, and while we shrugged the losses off then, if they had been wins, we wouldn't be knocked out of the race yet.

At least that's the theory behind the point of this thread.

No one is expecting us to win every game (outside of Hank, lol) -- but losing season matchups to teams that you should have an easy time beating can cost you in the end...

Same thing goes for the statement (which I am also tired of) -- that because the pitcher is a rookie, the Yankees lose cuz there isnt scouting.

[dont_ya_know24]

in the end, it all evens out, because there are also a handful of games that we shouldn't have won.

[Allan]

You're right in saying that April wins are important however I don't think this is peculiar to just the Yankees. Without looking it up (lazy), I rather suspect that Sox or Mets or other fans could just as easily point to games they let slip away early that loom large in September.

[4bronxbombers]

Is this official?

yes.

[Mattingly's Stache]

I'm pretty sure you could say the same about any team. Just looking at the results, in May the Red Sox were swept in a 2 game series by Baltimore, Swept in a 3 game series by Oakland, and lost 2 of 3 to Seattle. By you measure, if they win an extra game in each series, they're tied for the division lead and we're further back. I don't really get the point of this whole argument. Its not that the Yankees lost too many games to bad teams this year, unfortunately its that for part of the season, the Yanks played like a bad team.

[yankeebot]

I don't think there's a person here that doesn't recognize that early losses "count" and I think that way too much is made of innocuous, throw-away comments.

[primetime714]

No one was dismissing those early losses. Every game counts. However given our trend of poor starts and strong finishes many rightfully weren't overly concerned.

Still I think everyone recognizes that this trend of poor starts needs to stop. We've gone into the past few seasons with way too many question marks and have had to consistently scramble to turn things around when things haven't gone according to plan.

What do we need to do to fix this:
-More starting pitching. We should enter into the season with no less than 6 viable starting options. And no the Rasners and Ponson types do not count.
-Better starting pitching- We need someone to really anchor this rotation and take pressure off the rest (Sabathia).
-Another middle of the lineup bat- People criticize ARod but was it just me or did it feel like an eternity for those two weeks we lost him this year. The lineup we ran out during that period consistently looked very unimpressive. We need someone another player that could be the "guy" in the middle of our lineup (Teixeira or Manny- preferably Tex). This will also take pressure off ARod which is something he desperately needs to be at his best.
-Decent bench options- Betemit, Duncan, and the rest of our bench except Molina were terrible this year. They provided us with no relief. This team needs guys that can contribute off the bench and give us a decent option when someone needs a day off (Mench, Hairston, Miranda, Gardner?)

[NZ NYY Fan]

Fair enough, then take CLE out of the equation, add the June series for KC and CIN. My logic still holds and the winning pct for the teams mentioned abecomes .450 (214-261).

CLE aside do you disagree with the general principal of not dismissing losses becasue of when they take place?

I was really annoyed at one of those CIN losses. We didn't even try and hit Volquez - Moose pitched well against him.

[OlgMvp]

Every season I find myself debating with other fans the idea of not worrying about losses in April and May (sometines June too). We have all seen the posts casually writing off losses to bad teams as somehow unimportant because it's "early", with added emphasis of , "we haven't even hit the ASB" and other nonsense.

I post for your consdieration:

April:
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE

May:
Yanks lose 2 of 4 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL

Those teams are currently a combined 219-256 or .460. If we just win each of those series (1 more win per) we are in a dead heat with Boston going into the final series.

If you factor in another 2-2 series with KC and 1-2 with CIN in June and one more win each puts us up two games with four to play. My point is just this simple, every game counts the same. I can't stand reading posts dismissing a loss (any loss) simply becasue of the date. They all matter.

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

I'm totally on board with this. When we lose to KC in April, I'm formally conceding any playoff hopes.


In all seriousness...it's a great idea and true. It stings to lose these series early but if baseball were so easy to beat the teams you should beat every time, we wouldn't have these things called "upsets". I think it's fair to say that no one "dismisses" those early losses but what can we really do as a fan? We have to rationalize it. If we took those losses to bed with us, we'd never sleep and we'd never have hope for this team. Sure losing to the Orioles and the Royals in April and May is NEVER a good thing. I don't think ANYONE would say that but we're supposed to cash in the chips in June? Looking back is easy to say we should have won these games but what can you do? I don't see a Delorean laying around anywhere.

[aeromac76]

Every season I find myself debating with other fans the idea of not worrying about losses in April and May (sometines June too). We have all seen the posts casually writing off losses to bad teams as somehow unimportant because it's "early", with added emphasis of , "we haven't even hit the ASB" and other nonsense.

I post for your consdieration:

April:
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE

May:
Yanks lose 2 of 4 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL

Those teams are currently a combined 219-256 or .460. If we just win each of those series (1 more win per) we are in a dead heat with Boston going into the final series.

If you factor in another 2-2 series with KC and 1-2 with CIN in June and one more win each puts us up two games with four to play. My point is just this simple, every game counts the same. I can't stand reading posts dismissing a loss (any loss) simply becasue of the date. They all matter.

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

I am totally with you..

I am scoreboard watching in day one of the season..
They all count..

[YankeePride1967]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that early season losses are less meaningful. What some argue is that it is absurd the number of people that gave up in May and June the past two years. Last year they were wrong, this year they were right. Yes, 1 loss in April = 1 loss in September, however sometimes it takes more strength (as it is hard to do) to try and keep the faith.

[ColombiaYanksFan]

Every season I find myself debating with other fans the idea of not worrying about losses in April and May (sometines June too). We have all seen the posts casually writing off losses to bad teams as somehow unimportant because it's "early", with added emphasis of , "we haven't even hit the ASB" and other nonsense.

I post for your consdieration:

April:
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE

May:
Yanks lose 2 of 4 to KC
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to CLE
Yanks lose 2 of 3 to BAL

Those teams are currently a combined 219-256 or .460. If we just win each of those series (1 more win per) we are in a dead heat with Boston going into the final series.

If you factor in another 2-2 series with KC and 1-2 with CIN in June and one more win each puts us up two games with four to play. My point is just this simple, every game counts the same. I can't stand reading posts dismissing a loss (any loss) simply becasue of the date. They all matter.

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

I think people were commenting on the latest history of the Yankees when Torre was manager. No one expected the Rays to give this division such difficulty

[a-RobinsonCano-Fan]

no loss is ok with me, and shouldnt be with anyone else.

[StingrayJG]

The past few seasons when they had to come back from serious deficits because of early season lethargy, bad luck, rustiness, whatever excuse you want to use, at one time or another during the season, my wife & I would always say to each other, "one of these years this kind of play is going to come back to get them." Well, 2008 turned out to be 'one of those years.' And that is why the Yankee hot stove league will start at about 4:30-5:00pm on Sept. 28th this year.

[Nuke LaLoosh]

You're right in saying that April wins are important however I don't think this is peculiar to just the Yankees. Without looking it up (lazy), I rather suspect that Sox or Mets or other fans could just as easily point to games they let slip away early that loom large in September.

My point isn't that other teams don't let games slip away they should have won. It is the glib "don't worry it's just a game in April/May" comments I can't stand. We don't need to get apoplectic over every loss but too often people act like a loss in the first half of the season is meaningless or just mean less. I simply suggest we acknowledge those losses count the same by "banning" those types of comments.

And by the way lest anyone get their panties in a twist, this whole thread is intended to be taken with a giant grain of salt.

[DiMaggio5CF]

I don't think anyone who says "it's only April" means that that game means less than one in September. I think they mean that you can't manage that game like it's do-or-die because that might do something that will hurt your team over the long-term.

In April, maybe you go to a shaky bullpen rather than extend the starting pitcher. Could that cost you that game? Absolutely. But the thinking is that if you extend the pitcher for a win in that April game, it might cause an injury that will knock him out for ten games in August and September. And so the line you hear is "it's only April."

It doesn't mean that an April game counts less. It just means that you don't do something in an April game that's going to put you at a disadvantage in multiple games later. Whereas in August and September, the races are closer and there are few games remaining, so you make the move for the short-term rather than the long-term.

[ARodCanoMelky]

A win counts as the same as win in september

[sweet_lou_14]

Great post Nuke, I agree 100%.

[sjb23]

I'm concerned about how the manager and the players react when they get off to a slow start or have a bad game early in the season.

The manager needs to quickly evaluate the intensity level on his club: are they preparing, both physically and mentally, on a day-to-day basis? Are they aware of why their individual performances might be underachieving? Are they working to correct that? Are the coaches involved?

It's one thing to blow off an early season loss or a losing streak in order to help relax the players, but it's quite another thing if it's being "accepted" by all parties involved.

It's the manager's job to make sure his players' heads are screwed on right, and to make changes if they aren't.

Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, A-Rod and the Captain are all examples of players who may possibly have been side-tracked at the beginning of the season and shrugged off the club's average/below average performance with a "It's still early in the season" attitude.

Girardi, unfortunately, had so much on his plate (being a new manager) at the time that perhaps he didn't provide the leadership that was needed.

None of them get passes in 2009, IMO. They need to come out of the gate fast and furious, build a good record, and then take a breath, since it is such a "long season."

[R.V.47]

I'm concerned about how the manager and the players react when they get off to a slow start or have a bad game early in the season.

The manager needs to quickly evaluate the intensity level on his club: are they preparing, both physically and mentally, on a day-to-day basis? Are they aware of why their individual performances might be underachieving? Are they working to correct that? Are the coaches involved?

It's one thing to blow off an early season loss or a losing streak in order to help relax the players, but it's quite another thing if it's being "accepted" by all parties involved.

It's the manager's job to make sure his players' heads are screwed on right, and to make changes if they aren't.

Melky Cabrera, Robinson Cano, A-Rod and the Captain are all examples of players who may possibly have been side-tracked at the beginning of the season and shrugged off the club's average/below average performance with a "It's still early in the season" attitude.

Girardi, unfortunately, had so much on his plate (being a new manager) at the time that perhaps he didn't provide the leadership that was needed.

None of them get passes in 2009, IMO. They need to come out of the gate fast and furious, build a good record, and then take a breath, since it is such a "long season."

I think the point of the Girardi boot camp spring training was to try and prevent a slow start. So in that respect I think Joe put forward his best effort to try and prevent it by getting the players in their best playing shape on April 1 instead of July 1 and trying to prevent injuries. It did not really pan out that way though so it will be interesting to see how they approach ST and the early season next year.

[NYYDragoon]

I don't think anyone who says "it's only April" means that that game means less than one in September. I think they mean that you can't manage that game like it's do-or-die because that might do something that will hurt your team over the long-term.

In April, maybe you go to a shaky bullpen rather than extend the starting pitcher. Could that cost you that game? Absolutely. But the thinking is that if you extend the pitcher for a win in that April game, it might cause an injury that will knock him out for ten games in August and September. And so the line you hear is "it's only April."

It doesn't mean that an April game counts less. It just means that you don't do something in an April game that's going to put you at a disadvantage in multiple games later. Whereas in August and September, the races are closer and there are few games remaining, so you make the move for the short-term rather than the long-term.

Nicely put. On top of that, pretty much every team has the aforementioned mentality in the first half of the season, so you can "afford" to make mistakes. As in, if you're going to screw up, you better do it early when everyone's figuring themselves out as opposed to later when teams buckle down.

Yes, we can always look to losses an April and play "What if?" But notice that really good teams don't need to do that since their second half performance negates first half failures. The Yankees just weren't one of those teams this year.

[cajunyankee]

October wins count more.
2008: 0-0

[LongLiveBernie51!]

I think some people may downplay the losses early in the season to keep the overreactionary people from completely losing it when the Yankees lose a single game. It becomes even worse on both sides when that single game turns into multiple game losing streaks as represented by the slow starts we had in recent years.

That being said, I do believe that early losses come back to bite us and I don't like being quick to dimiss the importance.

[Krall]

Is this official?

Yeah it's part of Cashman's new contract.

[Soriambi]

That is why I am calling for an official ban on any argument built on the notion any loss is less important because it is still "early". Who's with me?

Obviously all wins and losses in the regular season are equal in value. I think that most people worry less about the early losses because there's still so much time to potentially get hot and win games to overcome those losses, whereas if you lose a lot in August and September you're finished unless you have a big lead and there's nothing you can do to make up for it. I think that people take them a bit less seriously since several losses in April don't make the situation critical, though they can certainly come back to haunt you.

[False1]

I agree. I remember thinking when Girardi got hired that he'd bring some focus, discipline and urgency that would have prevented the recent slow start trend. Well, that didn't go so well in year #1.