Any thoughts on Roger Clemens and Joe Torre not getting mentioned during the pre-game ceremony of Yankee greats?
Clemens, I really don't care about, though I do think it odd that the Yankees very openly ignored his accomplishments with the team while honoring/mentioning Chuck Knoblauch.
I can't remember if the great Yankee managers were mentioned or not as I didn't catch the whole pre-game ceremony, but Torre should have been mentioned in my opinion.
Thoughts?
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They didn't ignore Clemens. He was in the pitcher's montage. I was kind of surprised and was thinking it would be very strange if he was there.
Before they started doing position by position there was an announcement about how the Yankee family is so extensive and how many members of the Yankee family couldn't be there because they are now a part of another team. To me, that was a "shoutout" of sorts to Torre and Donnie Baseball. Personally, I don't think they needed to do anything more than that.
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Shutting out Clemens is pretty hypocritical.
My mistake if they mentioned Clemens during the montage. I didn't remember seeing him during the montage and, of course, he wasn't there, so I thought they ignored him entirely.Originally Posted by yanksrule69
So that's how they handled Torre and Mattingly? They should have mentioned them by name. Just one guy's opinion.
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I agree...Maybe a video message? Unless they were asked and declined.
I heard that during the game Torre had a video message.
Not sure about Donnie though.
I didn't see Clemens in the montage.
I didn't either- I don't think he was in it as I would have remembered that.
Monument Park Additions
For me Clemens isnt a big deal, he wasnt a Yankee immortal. He came to NY to win a World Series after snubbing the Yanks for the BlueJays asa free agent.
I was shocked about Torre.
I like to think that had the Dodgers had an offday or were playing in NY or Philly during the day yesterday, that he would have been invited and come to the ceremonies.
Clemens was not mentioned in the montage. Pretty hypocritical. If they can mention Giambi, they should mention Clemens.
Personally, I'm ticked off that they didn't mention Mickey Rivers.
I could have sworn they flashed Clemens and his #22 uniform during the pitchers. Guess I must be losing it!
Life is a Waste of Time, Time is a Waste of Life, so let's get Wasted all the Time, and have the Time of our Lives
It's not about the destination. It's about the journey.
"Only the good die young"
I thought they didn't really celebrate managers (well, I think all of the other great Yankees managers were mentioned, but either as players or as part of the "first team" thing in the beginning), so it wasn't a big deal that Torre wasn't mentioned. Also, it could go either way - maybe Torre didn't want to do it.
That being said, I was hoping that Torre and Mattingly would show up together...
If it means anything, both Torre and Donnie had taped segments/interviews show on ESPN during the day's festivities, as well as during the "Farewell to the Cathedral" special which was shown on TV.
Clemens on the other hand, was mentioned over and over again when it came to the 2000 season and famous incidents with Piazza.
As for the actually physical pre-game stuff -- I wasn't at the game to say yes/no to if they had stuff aired on the video scoreboard, but honestly, who thought Torre would show up considering he is managing another team, who are in the middle of a playoff race and had a game that day...same goes to Donnie...
As for Clemens, maybe he was snubbed and say what you want about how he compares to other players regarding steroid allegations, but I personally don't mind that he wasn't there. I routed for him when he played for us no doubt, but his off-field antics and how he handled the numerous retire/not-retire shinanigans, and so on -- something about how he handled himself in the "spotlight" rubs me the wrong way...
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#1
Fully agree on Clemens. Torre had a game to manage. Asking him to come to the event while he is in a pennant race with the Dodgers would have been asking too much, IMHO. Sooner or later, though, they HAVE to honor Torre in some official way. Like some other Yankees, he is most appreciated after being gone.
As an aside, even my wife noticed that, try as they might, neither Joe Morgan nor Jon Miller could get Michael Kay to comment on the change from Torre to Girardi. I wonder if there is a standing order from YES not to dicuss Torre much. (?)
Did they mentioned McCarthy and Huggins?
Yes, and Casey. Come to think of it, they should have mentioned Torre more prominently.
I don't remember managers being shown on the montage....... but really, if you're not going to require Torre's presence, all the great managers have passed away anyway, so maybe they did not include managers for the montage due to no one being alive/available. It seemed every other position had at least a few representatives.
*EDIT* my esteemed Yankee poster above says they did include managers. Nevermind.
It was mentioned on the ESPN blog that O'Neill and Brosius got the loudest ovations. Is that true? I saw Bernie and Tino's ovation, and they seemed pretty loud.
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If I recall correctly, Hugiins was announced as manager of the 1923 team, while McCarthy and Stengel were honored with live "stand-ins".I don't remember managers being shown on the montage....... but really, if you're not going to require Torre's presence, all the great managers have passed away anyway, so maybe they did not include managers for the montage due to no one being alive/available. It seemed every other position had at least a few representatives.
*EDIT* my esteemed Yankee poster above says they did include managers. Nevermind.
It was mentioned on the ESPN blog that O'Neill and Brosius got the loudest ovations. Is that true? I saw Bernie and Tino's ovation, and they seemed pretty loud.
Clemens was painfully ignored which I find a little petty. Torre was a little more "creatively" snubbed. Huggins, McCarthy and Stengal were all introduced with the 1923 team actors, Martin as a player and Girardi as, well, Girardi. Torre should have gotten some recognition somehow.
I am not too troubled about leaving out Clemens, considering his public persona these days. However, I disagree with those who discount the contribution he gave to the team. We would not have won in 2000 without him. And the pennants in '01 and '03 were also won with his help.
As to Torre, he will have his richly deserved special day when the right time comes. You all know that!
n
"28" IN TWENTY-TEN!!!
Screw Clemens. As for Torre, he was in a video message, correct?
After a night like that, it's kind of silly to start picking apart who was and wasn't part of the ceremony. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet and complaining that there were no olives.
Relax. Enjoy. Sheesh.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
I love olives.
I didnt see Clemens either.I was kind of thinking maybe Jimmy Key and Wetteland should have been mentioned. I apologize if they were and i missed it. Both meant more then Jesse Barfield did.
I noticed that too - Kay would just continue with the play-by-play as soon as Morgan or Miller finished - as if he didn't hear what either of them said. He did it more than once, so I don't think it was an oversight. It was probably the only time I was actually paying attention to what Kay was saying - I wanted to hear his opinion.
I agree 100% - at some point, they have to give Torre his due. I think that maybe one day, he'll have his place in Monument Park. It would have been nice to see his video shown during the rest of the pre-game ceremonies when just about everybody was tuned in.
September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.
Stadium was busy, did i miss the Torre video also? Wow! i wasnt even drinking.
Well, I started the thread, so I feel I should respond. Last night was amazing- the Yankee organization did a fabulous job with that ceremony- much, MUCH better than the schmaltzy Fox All-Star game ceremony.
The only reason I brought up the Clemens and Torre thing were because 1. I didn't see the whole ceremony, so I guess I was asking more than anything, and 2. Pete mentioned on his blog that he was listening to a radio call-in show and Torre's absence was mentioned. Some media outlets brought up Clemens absence, too.
Not trying to stir up trouble- I thought last night as picture perfect.
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Never underestimate the furor generated when no black olives are provided. Green, okay, but black? Can no happen.
What video message, Pete? The montage? If Torre was on that, I missed it completely (though he WAS shown in one of the ESPN montages), but then they way they failed to show the jumbotron on TV half of the time, it could well have been seen at the Stadium, but not at home.
I, too, agree that EVERYONE can't be mentioned, but a manager that delivered that kind of playoff run and World Championships is no bit player.
Wetteland was and I'm pretty sure Key was mentioned, too.
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They were both included in the montage - very, very quickly.
September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.
Thank you guys, I saw wetteland in the Montage, but i think they should have been singled out, like Barfield, Henderson, etc... Maybe its because Yanks RFers dont compare to our pitchers over years. Guess Rickey gets in since he is still our all time leader in sb's.
They showed Clemens & the Piazza bat throwing incident in the montage. That was all I saw of Clemens.
Nancy
Be kind. Every person you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Didn't think Clemens' name was included in the ceremony. Which is fine, but implicated steroid/HGH users Pettitte and Knoblauch and Giambi were in there.
And they didn't have a category for past managers in the montage, did they?
Some strange choices at pitcher in general. Ed Figueroa and Al Downing.
At least Ed Figueroa won 20 games for us. Al Downing was a head scratcher.
And could somebody please remind me of the significance of Jesse Barfield to the Yankees.
Andy used it once to recover from an injury, before it was illegal (I believe).
Ain't like he was a steroid junky.
-Lou ~ 27 (on to 28 in 2010)
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No way Torre could come, even if The Dodgers weren't in a pennant race. He's got a job and that's to manage his team to a win every day. I didn't think of it until I saw this thread, but I am surprised that Torre wasn't mentioned in the montage, speeches, or whatever. He should have been.
I believe both Mattingly and Righetti said they would loved to have attended but are working for other major league teams with duties they needed to perform on that day and could not make it.
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Forgot about Barfield. That was very surprising, too.
They are still trying to justify the Leiter trade.
^-Unnecessary.
Anyways, that pregame ceremony was fantastic, but the exclusion of Torre and Clemens was just classless. I didn't expect either one to be at the stadium, but not even mentioning Torre or showing Clemens in the montage of pitchers? There's really no excuse for that, and I'm very disappointed in the person(s) responsible for making the decision to exclude them. I would love to hear the reasoning behind Clemens, especially. If it's about steroids, then the hypocrisy is disgusting. Are they mad about the relatively terrible investment they made in him last year? For shame, Yankees. For shame. Those two omissions, along with the people who booed A-Rod, were the only blemishes on an otherwise wonderful night.
I was there and I don't remember any message from Torre, altho maybe I missed it, he had a game to manage in LA, bit I am pissed Mattingly couldn't be there, because that is where he performed, he should have asked for the day off and came, no excuses.......
There is no excuse, none zero, for not including Torre. Of course I don't expect him to be there given his managerial situation and the fact that his team is at least going to the playoffs. However, certainly his name should have been mentioned and he should have been shown in videos. How can one look at the record achieved under Torre of wins, championships, and post season appearances and think for one second that his name doesn't deserve to be mentioned prominently? For a classy organization that was totally and completely classless and ignorant.
Clemens being ignored annoyed me a lot. Like it or not, the masses view him as a Yankee and he had to be mentioned, IMO.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
Pettitte had to be honored. Not only is he on the current roster, but he was the starting pitcher for the game!
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Nobody ever says "it's just a game" when their team is winning.
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Righetti being a pitching coach I can understand, but Donnie could have taken a day off and come, he did;t try hard enough IMO....no excuse...
1. How do you know he "didn't try hard enough"
2. He is employed by another team and was working that night.
I'm sure if all things had worked out and he had an off day then he would have gone, but to be pissed that he didn't leave his other team when they are trying to win their division is just arrogant.
he is hitting coach of another organization fighting for a pennant, you expect him to fly across country. and it's ok Righetti didn't make it because he is a picthing coach( for a team 100 games out of the playoffs) but Mattingly a hitting coach didn't try hard enough in your opinion.
I am assuming (and you know what happens when you assume) that the November ceremony will include all of the former Yankees who still have jobs throughout baseball. If Torre is snubbed then, I will be really disappointed.
What does this even mean? How hard did he try, how do you know how hard he tried, and exactly what would have constituted trying hard enough?
The assumption is he wanted to come. He was rejected for the manager's position.
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