The Official 2009 New England Patriots Thread

[RIyankee]

An offensive guard and both OT spots will need to be addressed. As is CB and FS.

Hopefully, the team allow Ellis Hobbs to walk. I'm convinced that even if Brady remained healthy, this team would never win another championship as long as Hobbs is starting. Yes, he's that bad.

Obtaining a high draft pick is preferable to attaining a vain playoff run. Cassel is simply too INT prone to make a real SB run.

Discuss.

BTW, to those die hard Pats fans that disagree with this thread, the reality is that the 2008 season is over. We won't win a SB with Cassel at QB. The sooner you all accept this the better off you'll be.

[Pepper03]

I think they should lose the rest of their games-on purpose if necessary-maybe they can get the Number 1 pick then.

[YASS]

I think they should lose the rest of their games-on purpose if necessary-maybe they can get the Number 1 pick then.

I don't disagree that a high draft pick would be useful, but the Patriots would never select at #1. They'd trade it for useful bodies and a lower pick.

[dabomb2045]

An offensive guard and both OT spots will need to be addressed. As is CB and FS.

Hopefully, the team allow Ellis Hobbs to walk. I'm convinced that even if Brady remained healthy, this team would never win another championship as long as Hobbs is starting. Yes, he's that bad.

Obtaining a high draft pick is preferable to attaining a vain playoff run. Cassel is simply too INT prone to make a real SB run.

Discuss.

BTW, to those die hard Pats fans that disagree with this thread, the reality is that the 2008 season is over. We won't win a SB with Cassel at QB. The sooner you all accept this the better off you'll be.

Its amazing to me how many Pats fans still think they can make a deep playoff run w/o Brady there....I just dont get it. Yes they have offensive talent at other positions but anyone who knows anything about football knows that the QB is key. Especially so for this Pats team. They are built around Brady. They are built to win games by Brady throwing the ball all over the place and scoring a ton of points. They arent built to win by being conservative throwing the ball, pounding the run and relying on their defense.

I know you and I have had our Manning-Brady debates but I realize how great Brady is---franchise QB and one of the best ever. You dont replace him...even a little bit. Now you are asking a QB who hasnt started a game since HIGH SCHOOL to try to fill the shoes of one of the greatest to ever play the game...yet alot of Pats fans seem to think its doable. I dont understand it. Look at what Moss did in Oakland without a real QB, and what Welker did in Miami. That "talent" looks alot less impressive without Brady getting them the ball.

I see the Pats finishing 7-9...maybe 8-8

[Reggie Smith]

Its amazing to me how many Pats fans still think they can make a deep playoff run w/o Brady there....I just dont get it. Yes they have offensive talent at other positions but anyone who knows anything about football knows that the QB is key. Especially so for this Pats team. They are built around Brady. They are built to win games by Brady throwing the ball all over the place and scoring a ton of points. They arent built to win by being conservative throwing the ball, pounding the run and relying on their defense.

I know you and I have had our Manning-Brady debates but I realize how great Brady is---franchise QB and one of the best ever. You dont replace him...even a little bit. Now you are asking a QB who hasnt started a game since HIGH SCHOOL to try to fill the shoes of one of the greatest to ever play the game...yet alot of Pats fans seem to think its doable. I dont understand it. Look at what Moss did in Oakland without a real QB, and what Welker did in Miami. That "talent" looks alot less impressive without Brady getting them the ball.

I see the Pats finishing 7-9...maybe 8-8

All valid points, and are more likely to come true than not. However, I remember the not-to-distant past when they lost their franchise quarterback, and in stepped the 199th pick in the draft who was not the best QB on his college team who was asked to 'manage the game'. If Cassel can do the same, they might be OK, and I still think a playoff team.

Until recently, Brady "won" only a handful of games. He just didn't "lose" any of them. His statistics in his first few years are rather ordinary IMO.

[RhodyYanksFan]

All valid points, and are more likely to come true than not. However, I remember the not-to-distant past when they lost their franchise quarterback, and in stepped the 199th pick in the draft who was not the best QB on his college team who was asked to 'manage the game'. If Cassel can do the same, they might be OK, and I still think a playoff team.

Until recently, Brady "won" only a handful of games. He just didn't "lose" any of them. His statistics in his first few years are rather ordinary IMO.

So you think lightning will strike twice like that for the same team?? Give me a break. I like the Pats. They're my 2nd favorite team, but to think that Matt Cassel will be anything like 2001 Tom Brady is silly.

As RIYankee said, there's nothing to gain from a wild card spot and 1st round loss in Jacksonville.

The worst part of all this is that everyone will get another year older and lose that last chance at this dynasaty's run. The defense is already old, next year they'll be even older. How long before Rodney Harrison and Tedy Bruschi become liabilities instead of leaders?

Actually the real worst part of this is now it makes Dallas much more likely to win the Super Bowl

[Reggie Smith]

So you think lightning will strike twice like that for the same team?? Give me a break. I like the Pats. They're my 2nd favorite team, but to think that Matt Cassel will be anything like 2001 Tom Brady is silly.

As RIYankee said, there's nothing to gain from a wild card spot and 1st round loss in Jacksonville.

The worst part of all this is that everyone will get another year older and lose that last chance at this dynasaty's run. The defense is already old, next year they'll be even older. How long before Rodney Harrison and Tedy Bruschi become liabilities instead of leaders?

Actually the real worst part of this is now it makes Dallas much more likely to win the Super Bowl

Shoot, I don't know. IMO, there is still a lot of talent and a good coach. Coming into the season, my biggest knock on them was the age of the defense. That will only make it worse for them. As for Bruschi, I personally already think he is a liability, but that's just me. I assumed this year was Harrison's last...but he might stay for one more now.

I'm looking for anyone to tell me they expected what would transpire when Mo Lewis took down Bledsoe. I am not a Pats fan, but I don't think are done either. I certainly wouldn't be betting them to win the SB.

[S2]

I thought I had more leg room today. ................ I can stretch out now.

See you next year.

[RhodyYanksFan]

Shoot, I don't know. IMO, there is still a lot of talent and a good coach. Coming into the season, my biggest knock on them was the age of the defense. That will only make it worse for them. As for Bruschi, I personally already think he is a liability, but that's just me. I assumed this year was Harrison's last...but he might stay for one more now.

I'm looking for anyone to tell me they expected what would transpire when Mo Lewis took down Bledsoe. I am not a Pats fan, but I don't think are done either. I certainly wouldn't be betting them to win the SB.

Bruschi is old, but he did lead the team in tackles the last two years. He's not a liability, yet. We'll see if he can keep up his pace this season. Their secondary used to be the best in football, now it's either too old or too young. Who knows what next year will bring.

[NYYFAN]

So NE wont be a lock to go deep in the playoffs.

You guys are spoiled.

You still have a very competitive team and you are throwing in the towel.

Why don't you guys enjoy the challenge and see how it plays out...

As a Raider fan, I wish my team sucked as much as yours...

[S2]

So NE wont be a lock to go deep in the playoffs.

You guys are spoiled.

You still have a very competitive team and you are throwing in the towel.

Why don't you guys enjoy the challenge and see how it plays out...

As a Raider fan, I wish my team sucked as much as yours...

Never thought I'd say this... I agree.

[FoulkeLore]

So NE wont be a lock to go deep in the playoffs.

You guys are spoiled.

You still have a very competitive team and you are throwing in the towel.

Why don't you guys enjoy the challenge and see how it plays out...

As a Raider fan, I wish my team sucked as much as yours...

I hear you but it's different when the rug is pulled out from underneath you in Week 1 like some cruel 'made me prom queen only to pour pigs blood on me' shenanigans.

I feel lucky that we have a good team sans Brady but like with the Yankees of the past two seasons, doesn't it burn you a little that you weren't at full strength for much of the time?

[dabomb2045]

All valid points, and are more likely to come true than not. However, I remember the not-to-distant past when they lost their franchise quarterback, and in stepped the 199th pick in the draft who was not the best QB on his college team who was asked to 'manage the game'. If Cassel can do the same, they might be OK, and I still think a playoff team.

Until recently, Brady "won" only a handful of games. He just didn't "lose" any of them. His statistics in his first few years are rather ordinary IMO.

Fair points. My counterpoints would be:

1) Bledsoe was a good QB. But not even the same galaxy as what Brady has become.

2) Brady was a very good college QB. He accomplished alot at Michigan--in fact its amazing to me that he wasnt drafted much higher then he was. But he started alot of games, won bowl games etc....and playing at Michigan has alot of pressure involved. He was much more ready to start then Cassel is. Remember, Cassel hasnt started a game since high school.

3) That Pats team from 2001-2003 was built much different then it is now. They didnt have much talent at the skill positions. They ran the ball alot more and their defense was excellent. This Pats team is built to win via its offense--they arent built to win 17-14 type games where they play conservative, run the ball alot and ask their defense to win games.

[Pepper03]

I don't disagree that a high draft pick would be useful, but the Patriots would never select at #1. They'd trade it for useful bodies and a lower pick.

I was kidding.

I am not ready to plan for 2009 yet. There are 15 games left in 2008.

[Reggie Smith]

3) That Pats team from 2001-2003 was built much different then it is now. They didnt have much talent at the skill positions. They ran the ball alot more and their defense was excellent. This Pats team is built to win via its offense--they arent built to win 17-14 type games where they play conservative, run the ball alot and ask their defense to win games.

This to me is the biggest differentiator, and why you my closer to reality than my vision. Back in 2001, they were built defense/run first and Brady wasn't asked to win many games. Now, that is different. So, can they revert back to the old days? I doubt completely, but it's my guess they can with some degree of success.

Like I always said, though, I played soccer through college so what the hell do I know?

[msw6880]

So NE wont be a lock to go deep in the playoffs.

You guys are spoiled.

You still have a very competitive team and you are throwing in the towel.

Why don't you guys enjoy the challenge and see how it plays out...

As a Raider fan, I wish my team sucked as much as yours...

+1

Watch football and enjoy it. The game is great, whether or not your team is.

[NYYFAN]

I hear you but it's different when the rug is pulled out from underneath you in Week 1 like some cruel 'made me prom queen only to pour pigs blood on me' shenanigans.

I feel lucky that we have a good team sans Brady but like with the Yankees of the past two seasons, doesn't it burn you a little that you weren't at full strength for much of the time?

Injuries are part of the game. This year the injuries killed the Yankees. But life goes on...

If Bledsoe didn't go down, you guys may have never found Brady...

[pjfan]

BTW, to those die hard Pats fans that disagree with this thread, the reality is that the 2008 season is over. We won't win a SB with Cassel at QB. The sooner you all accept this the better off you'll be.

So that's it? You're done? Off the bandwagon?

You won't watch anymore Pats games this year? Sure, everybody wants to win a supberbowl, but it's not like this team is 0-8 and has no chance at the playoffs. This team will still compete in a weak division and with a weak schedule.

Prior to this, we as fans just had to get through the regular season and wait to see if we'd get a bye, and who we'd play. Christ, last year it was waiting to see if we'd win by 3 TD's.

Now, this makes the regular season a little more exciting. Yes, it sucks that we lost our best player, but I'm sure as hell not looking to next year. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out. And if it doesn't work out, well, we've had a good run.

[RIyankee]

So that's it? You're done? Off the bandwagon?

You won't watch anymore Pats games this year? Sure, everybody wants to win a supberbowl, but it's not like this team is 0-8 and has no chance at the playoffs. This team will still compete in a weak division and with a weak schedule.

Prior to this, we as fans just had to get through the regular season and wait to see if we'd get a bye, and who we'd play. Christ, last year it was waiting to see if we'd win by 3 TD's.

Now, this makes the regular season a little more exciting. Yes, it sucks that we lost our best player, but I'm sure as hell not looking to next year. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out. And if it doesn't work out, well, we've had a good run.

Holy drawn conclusions Batman!

Yes, the season is over. Yes, I'll still be watching the games, however.

[RIyankee]

Injuries are part of the game. This year the injuries killed the Yankees. But life goes on...

More like age, bad FA signings, young pitchers getting rushed, overrated prospects (Cano, Wang), etc, etc...

But that's another topic.

[FoulkeLore]

Injuries are part of the game. This year the injuries killed the Yankees. But life goes on...

If Bledsoe didn't go down, you guys may have never found Brady...

Hey, I'm still here. I just have about 10% of the optimism I had on Sunday at 1:00.

But Cassel will be no Brady and Bledsoe wasn't considered anywhere near as good as Brady is now. Also, the expectations of that team were minimal anyway. This years team was a legit Super Bowl contender.

Whatever, I'm not here to bitch and moan (anymore). Enjoy your season-good luck tonight. I certainly never mind seeing the Ponies lose.

[montrealer]

This made the Steelers a better team....................don`t like the way it happened...........wouldn`t wish any team to lose your QB in the 1st game.......

[Reggie Smith]

This made the Steelers a better team....................don`t like the way it happened...........wouldn`t wish any team to lose your QB in the 1st game.......

I sheepishly agree. Brady just beat us badly.

[FoulkeLore]

This made the Steelers a better team....................don`t like the way it happened...........wouldn`t wish any team to lose your QB in the 1st game.......

No, it narrowed the field. The Steelers are still the same team. So are the Jets, Bills, Chargers etc.

[Jace]

I think this is way crazy, we all saw the Giants last year and Eli with his 73 rating or whatever going into the playoffs. They had a great pass rush but they didn't have some historic defense or anything... And just as Brady's injury was random, Farve or Peyton or whoever could go down tomorrow. Football is way too unpredictable to give up on the season, especially because the Patriots have a great shot of being a playoff team

I think its just upsetting now to fans that the Patriots would have to win a lot uglier, and how far they are going to fall from their surgical precision last year. Giving up is crazy

[RIyankee]

I think this is way crazy, we all saw the Giants last year and Eli with his 73 rating or whatever going into the playoffs. They had a great pass rush but they didn't have some historic defense or anything... And just as Brady's injury was random, Farve or Peyton or whoever could go down tomorrow. Football is way too unpredictable to give up on the season, especially because the Patriots have a great shot of being a playoff team

I think its just upsetting now to fans that the Patriots would have to win a lot uglier, and how far they are going to fall from their surgical precision last year. Giving up is crazy

If the secondary plays better I'd be more optimistic, but from what I've seen last week and in the preseason, I'm depressed.

FS is still a joke and Ellis Hobbs is a completion waiting to happen.

[RIyankee]

I think they should lose the rest of their games-on purpose if necessary-maybe they can get the Number 1 pick then.

There's truth in your sarcasm, Beth.

[MTYankee23]

There's nothing wrong with this line of thinking. Smart organizations seem to accept their fates and move on quickly, I'm starting to get concerned about the stubbornness of the Patriots. They've been rather passive with the pass rush and they don't have the cover corners to allow such an approach. You can hope for the team to look to next season while still taking a great deal of interest in each game. It was the same with me and the Yankees this year, although they did the opposite of what I had hoped, once they dropped that series against the Sox, it should have been evaluation time. Aceves, Hughes, and Kennedy should have all been making regular turns in the rotation regardless of results. Miranda should have been playing first, Gardner CF. They were playing mostly playoff teams, it would have been a good way to evaluate.

[RIyankee]

O-line is numero uno on the list of priorities. It's obvious that Wesley Britt and O'Callaghan aren't going to pan out at Tackle.

Free Safety is always a need, it seems. I don't like the position having all its eggs in one basket in Meriweather.

A blocking TE is a must, though David Thomas has shown improvement in this area. I don't care if Ben Watson returns or not. He's beeen a borderline bust.

RB needs to be addressed. Maroney has been a disappointment. Morris, Faulk, and Jordan are old.

Cut RH, Vrabel, Neal, and Tedy. Time to play Crable.

Fire Pees.

4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, and scrap the 3-4. PLEASE!

[MTYankee23]

O-line is numero uno on the list of priorities. It's obvious that Wesley Britt and O'Callaghan aren't going to pan out at Tackle.

Free Safety is always a need, it seems. I don't like the position having all its eggs in one basket in Meriweather.

A blocking TE is a must, though David Thomas has shown improvement in this area. I don't care if Ben Watson returns or not. He's beeen a borderline bust.

RB needs to be addressed. Maroney has been a disappointment. Morris, Faulk, and Jordan are old.

Cut RH, Vrabel, Neal, and Tedy. Time to play Crable.

Fire Pees.

4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, 4-3, and scrap the 3-4. PLEASE!

Hybrid 4-3 would solve a lot of the problems of the "aging" defense.

Thomas-Seymour-Wilfork-Warren/Green

Crable-Mayo-Woods

Wheatley-Sanders-Meriweather-Sanders/Wilhite

[RIyankee]

Hybrid 4-3 would solve a lot of the problems of the "aging" defense.

Thomas-Seymour-Wilfork-Warren/Green

Crable-Mayo-Woods

Wheatley-Sanders-Meriweather-Sanders/Wilhite

Lots of talent there.

All we need is a good defensive coordinator.

[RIyankee]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

Lots of talent there.

All we need is a good defensive coordinator.

Surprised some of you are tossing in the towel. You do realize you have one of the all-time great defensive coordinators on your coaching staff right now, right?

[RIyankee]

Surprised some of you are tossing in the towel. You do realize you have one of the all-time great defensive coordinators on your coaching staff right now, right?

BB hasn't worked with the defense as much as the offense. Besides, even the greatest coaches have had bad seasons. This is one of them.

Moreover, in a post on the 2008 Pats thread, I showed evidence that the Pats D has been exposed since 11/25/07. Just to add, during the last 2 years, the Pats season ended due to the failure of their D to keep the other team from scoring a TD in the final 2 minutes of a game. Sorry, but I haven't seen much defensive greatness in recent years.

Numbers don't lie...

Heading into 2008...

BB w/o Brady: 42-58
BB with Brady: 100-26 (no, that's not a typo)

Critical thinking is a good thing.

[Yankee Fan in Boston]

BB hasn't worked with the defense as much as the offense. Besides, even the greatest coaches have had bad seasons. This is one of them.

Moreover, in a post on the 2008 Pats thread, I showed evidence that the Pats D has been exposed since 11/25/07. Just to add, during the last 2 years, the Pats season ended due to the failure of their D to keep the other team from scoring a TD in the final 2 minutes of a game. Sorry, but I haven't seen much defensive greatness in recent years.

Numbers don't lie...

Heading into 2008...

BB w/o Brady: 42-58
BB with Brady: 100-26 (no, that's not a typo)

Critical thinking is a good thing.

You certainly know your team better than I do, but I wouldn't give up on them just yet. Also, that record has to be a little skewed, given the relative skill levels of the team (excluding Brady)?

[RIyankee]

You certainly know your team better than I do, but I wouldn't give up on them just yet. Also, that record has to be a little skewed, given the relative skill levels of the team (excluding Brady)?

Brady had more talent around him in 2007 than at any time in his career and the result was a record shattering 50 TDs (Peyton Manning had 49). At least I can take solace in that.

No QB has had a greater impact on his team than Brady.

Before Brady started his first game for BB, the Pats offense from week 1 in 2000 thru week 2 in 2001, scored just 16.4 ppg. During the rest of 2001, it scored 25.1 ppg. Heading into week 3 of the 2001 season, the BB-led Pats were 5-13.

As for the "talent" of the current team: The o-line sucks. There are holes in the running game, exploitable weaknessess in the secondary, and a backup QB is behind center.

On top of all that, this team hasn't won a SBC since the 2004 season and you tell me to not to give up. You, sir, are either a very nice man or a B-buster!

EDIT: Forgot to add the lack of a pass rush to the list of "talents". But, no worries, I'm keeping a stiff upper lip.

[keg411]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft

If the Patriots end up getting Michael Oher, I will cry.

[RIyankee]

If the Patriots end up getting Michael Oher, I will cry.

He's got a nice story, but it's still too early. The Juniors will change the draft landscape.

[keg411]

He's got a nice story, but it's still too early. The Juniors will change the draft landscape.

It's not just the story. I read the book and I've watched Ole Miss just to see that O-Line play and the kid is flat out nasty. With the Pats problems on the OL this year, the kid (no matter what round he's picked in) is going to be really really really good.

[yankswn23]

I suspect the Dolphins will build an O-Line.. depending on how high they pick..but if they keep playing the Wild Hog offense, they might have a lower pick than some of us are suspecting..

[RIyankee]

I suspect the Dolphins will build an O-Line.. depending on how high they pick..but if they keep playing the Wild Hog offense, they might have a lower pick than some of us are suspecting..

Off topic post. Moreover, Miami's future depends on Henne. If he can't pan out, Miami will remain mired in the gooey morass of mediocrity.

That said, I'm glad my team lost. Hey, if Brady was going to be lost to us, might as well happen during the 1st Q of the season. If the Pats lose to the 49ers, they could be looking at a 2-4 record.

If we get to pick high in each round in April as a result of Brady's injury, I'll take it. When Brady returns healthy in '09, the Pats will likely be back in business.

[RIyankee]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1820388338

[RIyankee]

FWIW, I'm really starting to enjoy this season, unfettered by worrying about how my team will do week to week.

Prior to Brady's injury, anything less than a SBC was unacceptable.

Now, I can relax and enjoy the NFL. It's like being on vacation.

Brady finally had his surgery this week.

[Reggie Smith]

FWIW, I'm really starting to enjoy this season, unfettered by worrying about how my team will do week to week.

Prior to Brady's injury, anything less than a SBC was unacceptable.

Now, I can relax and enjoy the NFL. It's like being on vacation.

Brady finally had his surgery this week.

Welcome to how the rest of the world lives, and how you did before 2002

[CT_Bomber]

Welcome to how the rest of the world lives, and how you did before 2002

That's true. I don't expect the Pats to go anywhere this year so there's no pressure. Before this, it was Super Bowl or bust. We've come to expect a win every time we play. Pretty much the same scenario as the Yankees from '96-'00. But now, as RIyankee said, we can just sit back and enjoy the game.

[FoulkeLore]

Personally, I'd like a refund

[RIyankee]

The guy who replaced Kaczur at RT looked good, #64, Lavoie?

Let's see how he plays the rest of the season.

[RIyankee]

Official Tom Brady Website

[RIyankee]

2009 Free Agents

New England Patriots

Pos	Player Name	FA Status	Previous Team	Current Team
QB	Matt Cassel	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
FB	Heath Evans	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
WR	Jabar Gaffney	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
P	Chris Hanson	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
OG	Russ Hochstein	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
C	Lonie Paxton	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent

LB	Larry Izzo	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
SS	Rodney Harrison	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent
SS	James Sanders	UFA	New England Patriots	Free Agent

Of all the names, James Sanders is the most notable.

[Yankees13]

What do you think the Pats do with Cassel if Brady's health status is still up in the air? He's playing pretty well, so I'm sure he'll get offers to start elsewhere, and I'm sure the Pats don't want to pay Cassel a starter's salary in addition to Brady's. Might be an interesting thing to watch.