Now, I've seen enough of Rasner
Right Now, I've seen enough of Ponson
Next Year, Stick with Ponson/Rasner/Trade
Rasner has pitched better than Ponson, but it's really a case of pick your poison. Ponson will seemingly teeter between 6IP/1-2ER and 5 IP/6-7ER, in both cases allowing a ton of base runners. Rasner will sweat his way through 5-6IP in excruciating fashion and give up between 3-4 runs.
Just curious as to what to people think about IPK right now.
There is no correct time in when to call up Kennedy. Most of us said he would go down and dominate in the minors...So he hasnt surprised us there.
If Ponson is lit up by LAA and IPK has another good start at AAA then DFA Ponson and bring him up.
But as long as Ponson and Rasner are "keeping the yanks in the game" then we probably don't see IPK.
I selected option B
I'd let Rasner go down...
Hoping Rivera can pitch forever!
Fire Thomson now!!!
I've tried hard to comprehend this post, but I can't. Care to elaborate?Originally Posted by b_joseph
Now...
Calmer than you are.
There should be more than 3 choices. I'd wait until Kennedy can string together 3 games in a row in which he replicates the dominance of his last start. He will have earned a trip back to the big club at that point and I'm sure Raz/Ponson will have shat the bed enough once or twice at that point to merrit them losing their starting jobs.
The thing is, if Ponson/Rasner continue to pitch to 6-7ERAs, even if Kennedy does the same thing, I'd rather him get the learning experience. Boston isn't exactly a model of excellency but they let Lester work out his problems last year and he turned it around in September. They're doing the same with Buccholz right now.
You mean like his last 3 outings?
7 IP, 3 H
7 IP, 1 H
6 IP, 3 H
Not going to learn anything about Kennedy in AAA that we don't already know.
Oh no argument from me, I'm just saying given IPKs struggles in go round 1, his quick promotion after 1 start and 2nd failure I don't think the Yanks are anxious to bring him back unless he is clearly the best option and that means Ponson and/or Rasner being abject failures. Personally I think Ponson is a failure and the experiment should end but I'm not part of the Yankee front office so my vote doesn't count.
Also several pitchers this year have had good AAA lines that haven't exactly translated to MLB sucess - Kennedy, Igawa, Ranser to name a few.
Yup; he has nothing more to prove in AAA and can't do worse than Ponson.
"meet the new Boss...same as the old Boss.." - Pete Townshend/Roger Daltrey - The Who (1971)
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
Personally, I'd like to see about 3 more. It's not about us learning more about him, it's about him gaining enough confidence to withstand the pressures of the big leagues.
No I'd prefer him to spend the rest of the year at AAA with a September callup, but right now I think he gives the Yanks a better chance to win the Sir Sidney so he should get called up.
This BS about him having "nothing to learn or prove in AAA" is just that BS.
Rasner's ERA would be far better if he'd been managed better. About 1.5 of his ERA should probably be charged to Girardi.
Look what the Twins are doing with Liriano. I know it could be because they want to keep his service time down, but they are also giving him a chance to develop. He and Kennedy are both 0-3 at the ML level.
I'd go for a trade over promoting IPK. Either way, Ponson has to go.
I think he'd build more confidence by getting real hitters out. He already knows he can get AAA hitters out, as evidenced by his comments.
Liriano is recovering from a serious injury.
In 3 of his July starts he's walked 3 batters in 6 or fewer innings. He can still learn a few things.
You're entitled to your opinion but his performance in AAA proves otherwise.
Care to elaborate on your opinion? Just curious...
"meet the new Boss...same as the old Boss.." - Pete Townshend/Roger Daltrey - The Who (1971)
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
Well a lot depends on Ponson's next start which barring a trade he will get. I think Rasner may have worked himself back into the picture for now.
If Ponson gives us a Quality Start his next outing I think IPK stays down and makes his next start in the minors.
In fact I'm almost more inclined to have him get one more AAA start regardless. I feel like Giese will likely be saved to piggy back on Ponson's next start. If Ponson can't get it done, Giese comes in pitches several innings again and sets himself up to take Sid's spot. And if Rasner struggles he is on the same schedule as Kennedy so he can also be removed or you push Rasner back to Ponson's spot and let Kennedy pitch on regular rest.
It'd be an easy choice if our #4-5 weren't either horrible or inconsistent. But, Ponson is horrible and Rasner will give you a good start and then implode in the next.
His ERA would be much better if he pitched better too. I joke, but not really. He's been piling up the walks lately, much like IPK was doing. IPK didn't give up that many hits though.
What I mean is that there cant be a set time because nobody will truly know when he is ready.
Even if he throws a complete game, 9 inning shut out in his next start. We cant take that as an indication that he is ready for the Bigs because most of us expected him to dominate the Minor leagues anyway.
The problem he faced was mental and whether he comes up today or 3 weeks from now wont change that. Mostly because you cant judge someones mental state until they overcome what was troubling them.
That better?
His career numbers in AAA would go against that.
Then we agree in philosophy, just differ in execution paths. I think he should be up here now, no question, whether he pitches well or not.
Whoops, I didn't notice there were two "now" options. So although I voted for him replacing Rasner, I would rather he replace Ponson.
Talk about a poll set up to get the answer you want...
I think he should be left in AAA until he can confidently attack hitters and throw any of his pitches for a strike in any count. I don't want him coming back up and nibbling with his fastball all night.
"Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool."
Yeah by contrast pitchers like Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine each threw well over 300 innings in their MiLB careers. Kennedy is not yet at 200. The notion that you have a few good starts against AAA hitters and you are done with them in simply not true for most pitchers.
In addition for a command and control righty, I'd like to see Kennedy's MiLB BB/9 rate drop down close to the 2 range.
These are my opinions but the fact that Ian was one of the absolute worst starters in MLB this year when he was with the big club leads me to believe he still has a few things he can learn at the MiLB level.
Ok so let him throw another 1 or 2 games down there and demonstrate consistency. Then bring him up because the Yankees need him.
His career numbers at the MLB level suggest otherwise.
Sorry, the poll portion was mostly for comedic relief. I thought of about 10 options but figured I'd get more of a consensus reading by narrowing down the options to "Rasner stinks, Ponson stinks, Kennedy stinks"
Which would mean that he has things to learn about the Big Leagues and not that he needs to learn how to dominate even more in AAA.
The guy has a mental block in the Big Leagues. Nothing he does in AAA will help him overcome that.
Its like the basketball players that make every single shot in practice and hit nothing when the game is on.
[quote=Yankee Tripper]His career numbers at the MLB level suggest otherwise.[/quote/]
I understand that but you're looking at such a small sample size with Big League numbers, also not factoring that he was probably injured or close to it. I think when Kennedy is right, he can dominate MLB hitters like he did in Toronto that time. I'll never forget that, that was the Ian Kennedy everyone talked about. Who were the 2 guys who helped get us to the playoffs when Moose imploded and we basically had no bullpen? It was Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba. We're taking such a small sample size in April, where pitchers generally struggle with the weather, gaining arm strength. Bring Ian back up, and I think he will do well, at least much better than Ponson throwing junk to opposing hitters.
The Phil Hughes we saw in Spring Training, basically the best pitcher in Spring Training, and I know it's only practice, but he was mowing guys down. The Phil Hughes will return, I promise you. It's just we've had a small sample size of what these kids have done early in the year, when basically the team as a whole was struggling.
A rotation of
Joba
Andy
Moose
Kennedy
Rasner/Washburn/Hughes
is way better than the 4 and 5 being Ponson and Rasner. Bring the kid up, he has dominated AAA and see what he can do with the nicer weather and a large chunk of time to find himself.
THE EVIL EMPIRE
Hughes/Wang/Chamberlain/KennedyThe Future Awaits Us.... and is frightening the rest of baseball
He should be called up right now! He's sitting on DL for my fantasy team, just waiting to dominate!!!
Lance Berkman is a Yankee!! Finally a Rice U. guy on the team!
He walked too many last year as well. The 1.89 ERA was pretty but mostly smoke and mirrors.
That said I still think he's a better option than Ponson right now.
Remember that Glavine and Maddux both kind of sucked when they first came up, but the Braves gave them time to work out the kinks at the major league level. Also, Glavine and Maddux didn't play college ball, so it's not a straight comparison.
"Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late" -- Branch Rickey
The Braves weren't in a pennent race and Maddux came up with the Cubs.
I'd like to see Kennedy come up. I don't want to see Ponson pitch another game, especially not against a hot LAA team. Even Ponson's wins have been a tight rope walk on a windy day. It seems that Rasner, as a fifth starter, does a better job of keeping the Yanks in the game with more regularity.
I went with DFA Ponson, bring up Kennedy. Ponson has won 2 of 5 starts. One of his wins was not a quality start, and the other was the start against a struggling NYM team that he somehow blanked for 6 IP while allowing 9 baserunners. He's averaging less than 6 IP a start and his WHIP is 1.9 since coming to the Yanks. I know he's gotten hit hard by two very good offenses in his 5 starts, but I struggle to find any reason to beleive that Ponson is a viable #5 guy. The pitching starved Texas Rangers dumped him for crying out loud, and claimed it was for his attitude/actions. They haven't dumped Bradley, and he is the drama queen of MLB. The difference? One has talent and the other doesn't.
Kennedy should be given a shot.
Fair point, and if we had other options I'd agree. The fact is, the secondary numbers for Ponson and Kennedy aren't much different, and I am more willing to take the gamble on Kennedy improving than Ponson.
"Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late" -- Branch Rickey
If we want to replace both, we can make Rasner the long-man, DFA Ponson, move Giese into the rotation, and bring up Kennedy.
Immediately. Kennedy can not do worse against the Angels than Ponson is going to do.
Smoke and Mirrors? 13 H in 19 IP isn't smoke and mirrors. Even this year he only gave up 41 H in 38 IP.. It was the high pitch counts (partly due to walks) that killed him. He would bunch up the walks and hits in the same innings and those innings were his demise. I think they call that "getting rattled"
The problem is, he was not only worse, but much worse that Ponson when he was in the majors at the start of the year. Not to say that he won't be better now, but I don't think you can really say that he couldn't be worse.
"Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener." - Billy Martin
Thing is, his WHIP, KO/BB... even his ERA+ is in the same range... I feel like if we see more of Mr. Ponson things are going to even out there....
"Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late" -- Branch Rickey
i've seen enough of both of them, but more of mr 2 whip,
I meant he was good last year but not sub-2.00 ERA good - the smoke & mirrors comment was in relation to his high walk count but low number of runs given up. I think people were fooled by the gaudy ERA over a very small sample.
I don't think he is nearly as good as the 1.89 ERA last year suggest but I also think he's a lot better than the 7+ ERA he posted this year. I'd just prefer him to spend all of this year at AAA but I agree our options aren't that good and he should get probably get another shot soon.
I'm thinking next week against Texas after Sidney is knocked around by the Angels.
I'd much rather have his first start back come against the Angels (93 OPS+) than the Rangers (116 OPS+).
Trail by fire.
I'd rather sweat excruciatingly than teeter a ton so I picked Ponson to leave.
"In the United States today, we have more than our share of the nattering nabobs of negativism....formed their own 4-H Club -- the "hopeless, hysterical, hypochondriacs of history." - Spiro Agnew
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