Let's play hypothetical here... say the Yankees come out of the All-Star break and play under .500 ball the first two weeks. Do they become sellers?
If and when the Yankees become sellers, who do you think hit's the block and what could the team find themselves gaining in return?
Unfortunately, this team will never become sellers. For marketing purposes, they have to feign being competitors, even if everyone knows they have no shot.Originally Posted by TheYankee
I'm also not sure who you would trade. If you trade Abreu, you lose out on the 2 picks you will get for him after the season. Same with Moose. Farnsworth? I guess he has some value, but once again you'd lose out on a pick.
What would we sell? Who would want it? What are we going to do? Trade Giambi or Matsui or Damon- two of which are just coming off the DL?
I don't think any teams making a world series run are going to be very interested in Melky, or gardner. We can't or wont trade Jeter, A-rod, Posada, Molina.
That leaves Cano and... Abrau? Bobby won't get us much and we'd be a fool to trade Cano off for prospects.
A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
These are pretty much the answers I expected, and agree with. Which leads me to believe that Cashman will in short order try to make an upgrade somewhere. It's the only move that can be made.
I don't want to say we're "stuck" with having to make an upgrade and making a run for the playoffs, because that makes it sound like making a run for the playoffs is a bad thing, but it's certainly the most viable option, and quite possibly our only option.
I'm not willing to break the farm for this season though. Honestly, even if we make the playoffs, I can't see this team going deep in it even with some upgrades, and catching the Rays and Sox will be tough (I'm hoping the recent Rays cold streak is indicative of things to come post-ASB - if it is, then we can certainly get in). Keep our high-ceiling to mid-ceiling prospects, make an upgrade in the outfield (having Melky and Gardner out there every day can't happen, and even once Damon comes back, we could use a quality CF both this season and until AJax comes to the Bronx), and hope that our starting pitching can keep us afloat until Wang comes back. If we can't get a decent CF, then just stay put, hope the team as it basically is now can turn it around enough to get into the playoffs (certainly is possible, given the amount of injuries we've had - if we can stay relatively healthy once Damon and Matsui are back, the offense could come back strong), and if they don't, regroup for next season once the offseason comes. I'm not willing to lose quality prospects for this year though.
1923•1927•1928•1932•1936•1937•1938•1939•1941•1943•1947•1949•1950 1951•1952•1953•1956•1958•1961•1962•1977•1978•1996•1998•1999•2000 2009 27-TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS
The Yankees have a big chip to sell, and no one has mentioned it. It also may be the only way they will be able to get anything for him.
Andy Pettitte.
Now I am not sure if he has a no-trade, but he is a proven big game down the stretch lefty with postseason experience. I think some teams that lost out on CC would be very interested in Andy.
I doubt he leaves the Yankees to go to another team as a FA, so we wouldn't get picks for him. But we can trade him.
And even if we want him back next year he could still be signed in the offseason.
"Long Island is New Jersey with a GED." - Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.
Pigs will fly before Pettitte is traded.
Pettitte does have a no trade contract. He has said he would pitch for the Yankees in the new YS. I am positive he wouldn't accept a trade at any time. If the Yankees chose not to sign him in 2009 they would be foolish and Andy would take the free agent route IF he wanted to pitch for another team. But he wouldn't accept a trade. Of that I am sure
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
Andy would sooner go down with the ship than he would take a trade and come back next year.
So are you also so sure that Andy decided to play in 2008 to sit home in October? Last I checked, many players play the game to win a title. If Andy could get traded to the Phillies (for example) and have a great playoff run there with a potential to win it all, why should he say no? Unless of course you think he's all about the money...
About the money? Staying with the Y's doesn't mean more money.
Maybe he is somewhat "about" an emotional attachment to a few Yankees and to the Yankee organization and tradition. If so, I would hope the Yankees would reciprocate.
Anyway, are you suggesting that playing to win some championship ring is more honorable than playing because of your commitment to a particular group of teammates or a particular city or a particular organization? For that matter, why is playing for a championship more honorable than playing for a higher salary?
I certainly would not think less of Andy if he vetoed a trade to a contending team, which I think will include the Y's at least through this month.
Playing a game with no interest in winning a championship means it is a job to you, nothing more. This "commitment" talk and "honor" talk is cheap. If the Yanks wanted to trade Andy to a contender in order for them to help themselves out in the near future, he would be holding up his side of the commitment by accepting it.
His side of the commitment included a no trade clause. He's made it very clear he only wants to pitch for the Yanks.
REally don't think it's even a remote possibility
" They turned Pete into a hornytoad!!!"
PS- life in the "209" near Yosemite- I was on a road bike ride yesterday and encountered a ( large ) bear in the middle of the road
Alright, not that Andy will lose sleep over this but considering he has 2+ months left on his contract, I would lose respect for him if he would prefer to play out on a team with (assuming at the time) no October over a team who can win him his 5th ring.
Considering the reason Andy came back to NY was to be a Yankee and help them to win a title, I would expect Andy to live up to his commitment in spite of the uncontrollable dysfunction of his teammates.
(Signature removed by moderator. No animated images allowed in sigs. Feel free to use a conventional, small-size image. Thanks for your understanding.)
Money, commitment, job may not be what he would consider. How about change? Most people do not like change. There is a comfort level knowing your role and place.
If the Yanks are 10 games out on 7/31, their title hopes are pretty much shot.
Perhaps, but I think the Yankee/Pettitte relationship has a unique loyalty to it after the debacle of letting him go in 2004 (for example, offering Andy the 2-year deal in 2007 with a rare player's option for 2008 as well as allowing Andy to take his time and decide if he wanted to come back last offseason) and therefore I don't think the Yanks would even consider trading Andy. Andy wants to be a Yankee and knows more about what it means to be a Yankee and represents himself as a Yankee as much as if not better than anyone on the team. Pettitte is on record as saying he will retire a Yankee, so for the team to jettison him somewhere else would surely be upsetting to him and, well, me as a fan of Andy and the Yankees.
Monument Park Additions
I think they can trade Damon, but that's just about all I see. He has a limited no-trade while most of these other vets have full no-trade. Damon with another year on his contract can shed some payroll and maybe land a prospect, but he has to come back healthy first or they can't trade him.
But I'd be surprised if this team sold anybody. As someone else said, they have to try and compete even if they have said that they want to cut payroll where possible and build up the farm system. That goes as far as to suggest that they won't be big buyers at the deadline, but it doesn't mean they will sell anything.
"The only thing sweeter is when you win two in a row!"
28, here we come!
If he stays healthy, Andy will probably come back next year, hopefully for a few less pennies.
"The only thing sweeter is when you win two in a row!"
28, here we come!
Llet's abandon any talk of Pettitte being traded. Not going to happen.
Yankee fan living in Maine.
Agreed.........and Damon wil not be going anywhere either. NL teams will not take him with the arm he has and no DH`ing. Often injured also in the past two years it would be a big gamble. You`re not going to trade him in your division so that leaves AL Central and West.
I guess you only respect athletes who want to be on the best team possible. So if an athlete as a free agent, with money not a factor, chooses a weaker team because it is closer to his family or because it includes players with whom he is close or a fan base with whom he has developed a relationship, you lose respect for the athlete?
Well, you and I respect radically different things. I respect Andy for his commitments to his family, for his faith, for his commitments to his teammates, for his hard work as an athlete, and for his feelings toward the Yankee organization and his Yankee teammates and the past that he has had with them. If he valued the last over a desire to win another championship, I might even respect him more.
Seriously.
Andy has as much of a chance of getting traded as Mo, Jeter and Posada do.
Not happening, nor should it.
"meet the new Boss...same as the old Boss.." - Pete Townshend/Roger Daltrey - The Who (1971)
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)
If given the chance midseason to abandon a team that won't win for a team that can, yes I think a player would be crazy not to. Stop disregarding the fact that there are 2+ months left on his contract.
Andy just isn't going anywhere. Just give it up.
A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!
Not at this point in his career
Phil Hughes is... ???
Alright, I'm giving up.
If we did sell (and I don't think we will) here are a the chips I see -
Damon - partial no trade on DL. If this was final year of contract he would be very attractive to a team that needed a LF/lead off guy. With the 2nd year @ $13M yanks would probably need to eat salary if they expected to get much in return. Also with the 2nd year, he's probably less attactive to other teams.
Matsui - full no trade - unless then shipped him LAD to reunite with Torre I don't see him waiving no trade mid season and I don't see LAD making a play for him. Would have value to AL club as LF/DH.
Abreu - on the down side of career but since he is worth 2 compensation picks next year Yanks would need to get at least that or better to make worth while. Not sure of NTC status, I think he had one in Philly and waived to go to NYY would probably waive to go to contender.
Giambi - unless Yanks eat a lot of salary, there will be no takers with that $5M buyout.
Cano - best chip but would be stupid to trade IMO.
Farnsworth - with the way he's picthing, I expect there would be interest.
Hawkins - no value.
Mussina - as 10/5 guy has full trade veto - would probably accept trade to contender though, especially Philly. Not sure how much he would bring in trade value.
Pettitte - unless Houston or Texas is in contention and calling, I don't see him pitching anywhere else.
Ponson - ha,ha,ha,ha,ha
Melky - does he have any trade value right now?
Absolutely I am sure Andy would rather go home in October and not play in the WS with a team other than the Yankees if he had a chance to pitch for the NYYankees in the new Stadium in 2009. At this point in his career Andy appears ready to hang them up rather than pitch for any team other than the Yankees.I totally don't understand your comment "Unless of course you think he is all about the money" How does that fit in, in this context???. If the Yankees were to trade him they would need his permission and both the Yankees and the team to whom he would be traded would probably sweeten the pot with money to get Andy to accept the trade. I still think Andy would refuse. Thus I believe, that Andy, unlike Clemens, is not all about the money.
Andy has already pitched in 11 postseasons and in 7 WS's with 4 rings. Do you really think he would go to ,say the Phillies to get one more chance for a ring when if he stays home he might get one in the first year of the new YS? I THINK NOT.
Think as you may, I'll continue to hold my opinion.
I think you are not only totally off base but unaware of the facts of baseball life
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
Yes, he might accept less $$ money, but why should he and why would the Yankees expect him to take a cut. He certainly is one of the few veterans who is earning his money. You can't find another pitcher out there who is as capable as Andy, even at his age, who can be had for less money than Andy is being paid.
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
To me it is all about competitiveness. Let's say just for sake of argument the Yanks drop 10 of 12 out of the gate while TB/BOS go on a run and the Yanks fall 13 games back in 4th place.
If Andy has a chance to pitch for say Philly, St. L, CHC, LAD or other NL team (I don't see yanks trading to AL) and possibly pitch more meaningful October baseball games, why would he say no? Show me an athleet without the disire to win more championships regradless of how many he's already won and you'll show me a guy I absolutely don't want on my team.
He can always resign with the Yanks in the off season and pitch in the new park next year if he wants to even if he is traded. It's not like there is a team option for next year or anything like that in his contract, he's on a pure one year deal.
I like Pettitte but $16M is an awful lot for league average ERA. If he's willing to take something in the $9 - $11M range I'd be for bringing him back on a one year deal to pitch in the new stadium - assuming we don't get both Sheet & CC in FA.
This is the Yankees, and they've already dissed him once (huge mistake)--16 mil is nothing, and I'm sure if he wants to play he'll be in the new YS with the crew.
"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast."
Also: To all the mediots who actually bought into the "we're into defensive metrics now" Sox meme? You're morons.
They didn't "diss him". He accepted less money to play to for Houston.
$16 million being "nothing" is the kind of thinking that got the Yankees this inflexible semi-dysfunctional roster in the first place. I say semi-dysfunctional because when it is all together and clicking it's a thing of beauty but when parts need to be replaced due to injury, it looks ugly.
the yankees best trade asset is currently on the DL, it would make 0 sense to give up now
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Has anyone else noticed that Rays are starting to collapse losing what is 7 straight now heading into the break and falling behind the Red Sox. We didn't gain as much ground as we should've, BUT I think our playoff chances just got a lot better. As the two teams we'll be competing with our now within reach and the one team that is very young and hasn't been the playoffs ever has started to fall. I know it seemed like more of a daunting task to catch the Red Sox, but the Rays with a poor second half could make it a whole lot easier for us. They're going to have to prove they can win games against us and the Red Sox down the stretch. That's the type of pressure that few players on that team have ever seen.
Oh and while we're not playing that well now. We have Damon coming back after the break and hopefully Matsui soon thereafter. We'll also get Bruney back soon to boost the bullpen.
I don't know what your problem is today but quit acting like an asshole.
You obviously don't know enough about that facts of baseball life when you insinuate that if Andy is traded in July, that means he can't pitch for them in 2009.
Ive said this many tims before that the AL is just waiting around for the yankees to take hold of it this year, we just havent responded yet. The talent in our clubhouse should be enough to at least get the wild card, if not the division based on Bostons injury questions with Ortiz.
If you listen to the fans you’ll be sitting with them soon enough.- Brian Cashman
[quote=Yankee Tripper]To me it is all about competitiveness. Let's say just for sake of argument the Yanks drop 10 of 12 out of the gate while TB/BOS go on a run and the Yanks fall 13 games back in 4th place.
If Andy has a chance to pitch for say Philly, St. L, CHC, LAD or other NL team (I don't see yanks trading to AL) and possibly pitch more meaningful October baseball games, why would he say no? Show me an athleet without the disire to win more championships regradless of how many he's already won and you'll show me a guy I absolutely don't want on my team./////
If you asked Joe D., Lou G., Yogi, Scooter, Mickey, Bill Dickey, and Billy Martin whether they would like to be traded to a contender two months before the end of a Yankee season in which the Yankees were much further behind, the only thing that would have over weighed their loyalty to the Y's would have been a WS check. If, like Andy, they did not need the money, they would stay in the pinstripes they loved. But I guess you would not want any of these guys on your team, because you only want "athleets", as you call them, who "disire" another ring more than staying loyal to their team.
They just held us off for over a month without Ortiz and now they are getting him back for the next time they play us. Looking at their ridiculously easy schedule with home games and days off, we would be hard press to catch Boston. They have three extra days off for the rest of the season.
The game of baseball has changed a lot since those guy retired. For one thing everyone of them was before the advent of free agency.
In addition Andy is not a yankee lifer, he already left once to join another team when the Yankees offered him more money. It is not like Cal Ripkin Jr or Tony Gwynn or even Bernie Williams leaving the only organization they had ever known.
Lastly Andy is a free agent at the end of the season so if it is a choice between playing out the string on a dead yankee team (note I'm only throwing out a "what if" not suggesting the Yankees are dead) or going to a contender with a chance to play October baseball, then unless there are some real mitigating family circumstances to stay, I'd have to question his desire to win if he chose to stay with the Yanks.
$16M is more than you'd like to spend but Andy is the best pitcher on this team and likely will be 2 or 3 next season if he comes back. If he's willing to go year by year for 16 per I think you have to do it.
If a 37 year old league average innings eater is the best pitcher on the staff the next two to three years, NYY can kiss the playoffs goodbye.
Hey it's nice that Andy can be penciled in for 200+IP and an ERA in the 4.00 - 4.50 range but that's not worth $16M no matter how many rings he has.
Besides this, the fact that he said he wants to pitch in the new YS would mean that he wants to be back. Why do you have to give him $16M if he's not worth it yet he wants to be back?
Andy is better than league average IMO. However I do agree, $16M is probably twice as much as he should be getting paid. If it's a one year deal, I can live with overpaying and I think the Yankees can too.
He'd probably accept 12 but you can't expect him to take more than a 25% pay cut after having been the most reliable starter on the team the previous season, even if he does want to be here.
Andy's ERA 4.03 - League Average 4.08
Andy's WHIP 1.34 - League Average 1.38
How are you defining average?
I'm willing to overpay him on a one year deal too, I just don't really want to grossly over pay him. I think he's worth about $6 - $9M market value on a one year deal. I think he should probably get $9 - $11 M on a one year deal from the Yanks.
12 would be a reach, but one I could live with.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
