2009 rotation

[Retire21]

With Joba becoming a starter, what ramifications does this have on what the Yankees are thinking in terms of the 2009 rotation?

I thought there might be an outside chance the Yanks would bring Moose back on a 1-year deal if he continued to pitch well. But if you're going to pencil in Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy, who is the other starter?

I am pretty sure Andy will want to come back in 2009- he has more or less said that the new stadium will help to influence that decision. The only way I see him retiring is if he just has a disaster season and doesn't want to invest in getting ready for the grind- and that's assuming the Yanks want him. I think the Yankees would value Pettitte if for no other reason that he's a left-handed starter. If you asked me now, I expect Pettitte to pitch for the Yankees in 2009.

So is Moose the odd-man out? At the beginning of the season, I would have thought it was a foregone conclusion that 2008 was it for him in a Yankee uniform, but now that he's pitching pretty well, I could see his stay extended. I would be surprised if he retired, especially if he ends up winning a dozen or so games in 2008 and with the money that is there to be had and the fact that he is probably a borderline HOFer right now- anything he can add to his win total would help to solidify his candidacy. What do you guys think about the rotation in 2009? Sabathia? Pettitte? Moose?

[THEBOSS84]

I think the Yanks will cut ties with Andy after this season, especially if he continues to struggle. They will replace him with CC forming this:

Wang
CC
Joba
Hughes
IPK

[primetime714]

I think the Yanks will cut ties with Andy after this season, especially if he continues to struggle. They will replace him with CC forming this:

Wang
CC
Joba
Hughes
IPK

I agree. Moose is definitely not coming back unless he wants a minor league deal. Andy also probably won't be back. Sabathia adds the established top of the rotation pitcher we need. And IPK should get some competition from Horne and maybe even Rasner for that #5 spot.

[Retire21]

I suppose it is possible the Yankees will sour enough on Kennedy that he will not be a "lock" for the 2009 rotation. I like IPK and hope that doesn't happen, but right now.............

Sabathia........ hmm...... just not sure he's worth the long-term contract/$$$ he'll be seeking. Big body, possible weight issues, etc. I'd rather grow from within than sign the big fella- at least that's my stance now. I'm a big Pettitte fan, so I'd like to see him back, too, but obviously he has to decide if he wants to (I think he does) AND whether the Yanks want him back.

[27IsNext]

C.C.
Wang
Pettitte (if he agrees to come back for less money than $16 million)
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy
Rasner (longman)

[themgmt]

CC will likley not be a Yankee.

I love how people just pencil in free agents like they are in a field for the picking.

Texeira says hello too.

[Tehasguard]

Wang
Pettitte
Sheets
Joba
Hughes

CC, if we can get him... good

trades? Oswalt/...

[THEBOSS84]

CC will likley not be a Yankee.

I love how people just pencil in free agents like they are in a field for the picking.

Texeira says hello too.

Um he is in a field for the picking. It's called free agency.

[Bub]

Wang
Pettitte
Chamberlain
Hughes
Rasner
Kennedy (6)

[Yankee Tripper]

CC will likley not be a Yankee.

I love how people just pencil in free agents like they are in a field for the picking.

Texeira says hello too.

Considering they have not signed extensions with their current teams, are the best players available at their position, and the Yankees have and will likely to continue to have the highest payroll and the Yankees have an obvious need at both position then barring them not hitting FA or an announcement from one of them that they do not under any circimstances want to play for the Yankees I think it is safe to assume the Yanks will at least make a market value offers or better on both of those guys.

[JeffWeaverFan]

I do think the Yankees will make a big push at CC. Or possibly Yu Darvish if he is posted. I wouldn't be shocked if Moose was re-signed to a 1 year deal, but obviously that would be a bit of a surprise. I would offer Mussina salary arbitration if he keeps pitching well.

Wang
CC/FA pitcher
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy

Rasner, McCutchen, and Horne could all beat out either Hughes or Kennedy for the 4 and 5 spots. And Moose or Pettitte could also be in that mix too if either is back.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

Wang

CC

Hughes

Joba

Kennedy

[wang+cano=future]

CC will likley not be a Yankee.

I love how people just pencil in free agents like they are in a field for the picking.

Texeira says hello too.

It is speculation of a rotation in 2009. Sabathia will most likely be a FA after this season, and it is entirely possible for him to be signed by the Yanks. So it is not unreasonable for people to speculate that he will be in the rotation 2009.

Anyway I am agreeing with most here that it will look like:

CC
Wang
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy/Horne/Mccutchen

[themgmt]

I know it's a guess of what people think the rotation will be in this thread, but people have been penciling him in since last year. They've been doing the same for Texeira for several years. It's not a forgone conclusion and in my opinion, I don't see it happening.

He isn't in the field for picking, he'll pretty much get to choose where ever he wants to go with the teams that can afford him. He might end up a Yankee, I don't see it though. I don't see the Yankees starting any long term contracts with pitchers in 09, not just Sabathia.

[THEBOSS84]

I know it's a guess of what people think the rotation will be in this thread, but people have been penciling him in since last year. They've been doing the same for Texeira for several years. It's not a forgone conclusion and in my opinion, I don't see it happening.

Money talks, and we'll have plenty of it coming off the books after this season which can be used on these two.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

I'm kinda concerned with CC'S weight though and I really don't want us to give up a 7 or 8 year contract for him. WHat I love is that we have option B. How good are Horne or Mccutchen? Do you guys think there's any chance we can see their stuff sometime this year ? I've heard a lot about these 2 guys but unfortunately I don't pay attention Minor League stats.

[ArodMVP217]

Carsten-Charles? would be a good pickup. you can't live in fear after brown, pavano, igawa.

[Yankee Tripper]

I wouldn't be shocked if Moose was re-signed to a 1 year deal, but obviously that would be a bit of a surprise. I would offer Mussina salary arbitration if he keeps pitching well.

Please god no to both. Moose would accept arbitration in a heartbeat and laugh all the way to the bank with his one year $9M deal is abr guys can't have their pay cut more to less than 80% of current salary. We are forced to hope Moose pitches reasonably well this year because our options aren't exactly pretty right now but there is no rational reason to bring Moose back at that salary.

[teknetic]

I know it's a guess of what people think the rotation will be in this thread, but people have been penciling him in since last year. They've been doing the same for Texeira for several years. It's not a forgone conclusion and in my opinion, I don't see it happening.

He isn't in the field for picking, he'll pretty much get to choose where ever he wants to go with the teams that can afford him. He might end up a Yankee, I don't see it though. I don't see the Yankees starting any long term contracts with pitchers in 09, not just Sabathia.

They'll have the money and then some to add both Tex and CC (both aren't likely, but I don't see how you can say either one isn't likely) There won't be any blind bidding, if the Yankees are in it, they won't be be outbid. I was against signing Sabathia, but it would definitely bolster the rotation, though I'd be weary of a 6+ year contract.

[Rastven]

I see Moose coming back on an incentives loaded deal if he thinks can get other year out of his arm.
I could also see Hughes not being a lock for the rotation full time if this injury means that he can't log the innings he needs to to develop more.
I could see the Brother Dumb over spending on CC and I'm not 100% sure it's smart (history says hard throwing lefties do well in YS but I'm concerned about issues with CC including contract length.
I don't see the lure of the Stadium being enough if Andy continues to pitch poorly unless he wants a redemption year and feels healthy.

When it's all said and if you can guarantee health and success
CC
Wang
Hughes
Joba
Kennedy
Rasner (long man)
Assorted AAA players like Horne et al waiting in case of injury.

[Mark19]

Seems like one of those situations in which one is forced to look at relative value. Sabathia will likely command 6-7 seasons and $110-130 million.

Due to his health, Sheets would probably have to settle for a shorter deal with more incentives a la AJ Burnett. Perhaps 3-4 seasons at $11-13 million per with the ability to bump it up considerably with innings targets.

Oliver Perez is the youngest so he could likely expect to receive 5-6 years at $12-13 million for a total of $65-75 million.

I'm not sure which of those guys offers the best value. We'll have to wait and see. Personally, I'd go for the shortest deal. Sheets would be my preference and I'd also bring in an innings-eater on a one year deal just to provide some competition for Hughes, Kennedy and Joba. Randy Wolf would be just fine unless Rasner shows some staying power. If Andy wants to return, it would have to be a much cheaper deal. $16 million is just way too much money for a 4 ERA - 6 inning guy.

Wang
Sheets
Chamberlain
Hughes
Kennedy/Wolf/Rasner

or

Wang
Sheets
Pettite
Chamberlain
Hughes/Kennedy

[THEBOSS84]

Say no to Sheets. He has averaged 133 IP per season over the past 3 years. I rather give more years and dollars to the pitcher (CC) who has proven he can pitch successfully in the AL and is a proven 200 IP per season lock. He's a lefty as well.

[Mark19]

Say no to Sheets. He has averaged 133 IP per season over the past 3 years. I rather give more years and dollars to the pitcher (CC) who has proven he can pitch successfully in the AL and is a proven 200 IP per season lock. He's a lefty as well.

Being a lefty really helps Sabathia but looking at his girth, his age and his mileage. I can't help but feel like he'll eventually break down. I can't think of a single $100 million pitcher who hasn't been a major let-down.

[hellonewman]

Wang
Sabathia
Hughes
Chamberlain
Horne

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Please god no to both. Moose would accept arbitration in a heartbeat and laugh all the way to the bank with his one year $9M deal is abr guys can't have their pay cut more to less than 80% of current salary. We are forced to hope Moose pitches reasonably well this year because our options aren't exactly pretty right now but there is no rational reason to bring Moose back at that salary.

That only applies to players under a team's control, not free agents who have the option to accept or reject arbitration. For free agents like Moose, a team can submit any arbitration figure they want, with no restrictions on a reduction in salary. Unless he continues to pitch so well, which I think is highly unlikely, I agree with you on not offering him arbitration. But they wouldn't be bound to a minimum of 80% of this year's salary if they do.

[Yankee Tripper]

That only applies to players under a team's control, not free agents who have the option to accept or reject arbitration. For free agents like Moose, a team can submit any arbitration figure they want, with no restrictions on a reduction in salary. Unless he continues to pitch so well, which I think is highly unlikely, I agree with you on not offering him arbitration. But they wouldn't be bound to a minimum of 80% of this year's salary if they do.

I'm no expert on the CBA and could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the 80% rule applies to all arbitration cases. It has to do with draft pick compensation for type A & B free agents as well as retaing players who don't have the service time to file for FA.

[bullitt245]

I'm kinda concerned with CC'S weight though and I really don't want us to give up a 7 or 8 year contract for him. WHat I love is that we have option B. How good are Horne or Mccutchen? Do you guys think there's any chance we can see their stuff sometime this year ? I've heard a lot about these 2 guys but unfortunately I don't pay attention Minor League stats.

I've seen McCutchen pitch in person when I was at school (Thunder). He had 11 Ks through I think, 6 innings. It honestly looked like he was toying with the opposition. Granted, that was just AA ball. I'd like to see how he does in Scranton. I think he can be a part of the Yankees' long term rotation plans, especially if Moose, Pettitte, and Kennedy continue to falter. There are a lot of good young arms in the system, I am tired of shelling out big bucks for an over the hill vet. However, I wouldn't be opposed to shelling out the big bucks for Yu Darvish. We have the money and he is still very young.

And who knows, if Rasner continues the rest of the season pitching as he has, he can have a place on this team. Maybe if not the rotation, at least as a long man or something like that. It's as if people are just waiting for him to fall off. I hope he continues to prove people wrong.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

I'm no expert on the CBA and could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the 80% rule applies to all arbitration cases. It has to do with draft pick compensation for type A & B free agents as well as retaing players who don't have the service time to file for FA.

No, if you go the section of the CBA on free agency, starting on page 70, you'll see in part 3, on the bottom of page 72, that the rules on maximum salary reduction do not apply.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

[Yankee Tripper]

No, if you go the section of the CBA on free agency, starting on page 70, you'll see in part 3, on the bottom of page 72, that the rules on maximum salary reduction do not apply.

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

learn something new every day. seeing as the CBA is a 241 page document I can see why I've never bother to become an expert. Thanks for the link though it's kind of neat to skim through it.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

learn something new every day. seeing as the CBA is a 241 page document I can see why I've never bother to become an expert. Thanks for the link though it's kind of neat to skim through it.

Yeah, it's not exactly a quick read.

[PeppermintPatty]

Wang
Sabathia
Hughes
Chamberlain
Horne

That's exactly my guess. With Kennedy thrown in the mix compete with Horne for that 5th spot.

[Yankee Tripper]

call me crazy but I'd love to see

CC
Wang
Sheets
Chamberlain
Hughes

The rest of the kids can wait in the wings for Sheets to have his yearly DL stint or we find out Hughes really shouldn't have been the #1 picthing prospect.

[nnysiny]

ideally:

CC (L)
Wang (R)
Andy (L)
Hughes (R)
Joba (R)
with Ian/Horne as the #6/longman

but more likely:

CC (L)
Wang (R)
Hughes (R)
Joba (R)
Ian (R)
with Horne/Rasner as the #6/longman

[JohnnyDamonfan]

I've seen McCutchen pitch in person when I was at school (Thunder). He had 11 Ks through I think, 6 innings. It honestly looked like he was toying with the opposition. Granted, that was just AA ball. I'd like to see how he does in Scranton. I think he can be a part of the Yankees' long term rotation plans, especially if Moose, Pettitte, and Kennedy continue to falter. There are a lot of good young arms in the system, I am tired of shelling out big bucks for an over the hill vet. However, I wouldn't be opposed to shelling out the big bucks for Yu Darvish. We have the money and he is still very young.

And who knows, if Rasner continues the rest of the season pitching as he has, he can have a place on this team. Maybe if not the rotation, at least as a long man or something like that. It's as if people are just waiting for him to fall off. I hope he continues to prove people wrong.

Yeah, Rasner is real good. I love that guy he will probably keep on winning my only worry about Rasner is Micheal Kay said something yesterday about Aaron Small going 10-0 and then the next year "Coming back down to earth" I'm hoping this is not the case for Rasner but could this possibly be like an Aaron Small year for him and then getting worse?

CC isn't over the Hill yet he's only what 27 maybe 28. He's not so much older then Wang. So I wouldn't have any problem shelling out the big bucks for CC. It's shelling out the lengthy 7 to 8 year contract that he would probably want that scares me. If the Yankees can somehow win big and get CC for five years that's awesome news. But, it's nice to know we've got some pretty good pitchers and it would be nice to see them step up.

[mrbawm]

Yeah, Rasner is real good. I love that guy he will probably keep on winning my only worry about Rasner is Micheal Kay said something yesterday about Aaron Small going 10-0 and then the next year "Coming back down to earth" I'm hoping this is not the case for Rasner but could this possibly be like an Aaron Small year for him and then getting worse?

CC isn't over the Hill yet he's only what 27 maybe 28. He's not so much older then Wang. So I wouldn't have any problem shelling out the big bucks for CC. It's shelling out the lengthy 7 to 8 year contract that he would probably want that scares me. If the Yankees can somehow win big and get CC for five years that's awesome news. But, it's nice to know we've got some pretty good pitchers and it would be nice to see them step up.

Rasner has a much better minor league track record than Small so I don't think it's a fair comparison. Still, who knows.

[Abe Frohman]

Everyone is talking like CC is already a Yankee. I personally want no part of him. Not

that i have anything against the guy, But this looks exactly like the kind of big money

contract mistake that we've made in the past and are going to be rid of in 09. Hes

big, looks injury prone and just all - around looks like a big mistake. lets not get off

this 7 year boat ride only to jump on the next one. it hasnt been a fun journey through

all these bum contracts. Id much rather sign Big Tex, a GG 1st baseman that we

really need and go from there. Just cause CC is available doesnt mean we HAVE to

sign him.

[Serge]

I feel that Wang, Joba, Hughes and Ian are locks. That leaves the last spot up to Rasner and possibly CC. I have almost no doubt that CC will be better than Rasner at the end of this season, but if Rasner continues to pitch like he has it will be a much tougher decision.

[Vin]

I'd rather have Yu Darvish, he's only 21 but he doesn't want to come here. Although if he's really smart he would come here. Pitching against stronger hitters would only make him a better pitcher plus the sick money he's going to get. My bet is he will come here, he's a competitive guy.

Say no to CC, who is another injury waiting to happen.

[njdhockey]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Horne in the rotation next year.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

Everyone is talking like CC is already a Yankee. I personally want no part of him. Not

that i have anything against the guy, But this looks exactly like the kind of big money

contract mistake that we've made in the past and are going to be rid of in 09. Hes

big, looks injury prone and just all - around looks like a big mistake. lets not get off

this 7 year boat ride only to jump on the next one. it hasnt been a fun journey through

all these bum contracts. Id much rather sign Big Tex, a GG 1st baseman that we

really need and go from there. Just cause CC is available doesnt mean we HAVE to

sign him.

CC is a Cy Young award winner. I think the Yankees would be pretty dumb to not make a run at him. We should at least look into him. I want Teixshara too. I guess I'm just worried about what will happen to another unproven rookie if he's brought into our rotation.(Horne)

[Yankee Tripper]

He's {CC} big, looks injury prone and just all - around looks like a big mistake.

Why do people think this guy is injury prone? He's made at least 28 starts and logged more than 180 IP in every big league season including his rookie year. Nothing in his delivery says injury risk.

I agree the Yanks may not get him but if they are going to spend big money on a FA pitcher, this is the guy I want them to do it on.

[NYDCYankee]

I love Ben Sheets but he is going to be 30 in July. I would still like to see if they could pay him big bank to bring him in for 3 years.

[MaximMan121]

CC is a Cy Young award winner. I think the Yankees would be pretty dumb to not make a run at him. We should at least look into him. I want Teixshara too. I guess I'm just worried about what will happen to another unproven rookie if he's brought into our rotation.(Horne)

Let's go after Bartolo Colon while we're at it.

[Yankee Tripper]

Let's go after Bartolo Colon while we're at it.

I was not aware that CC was coming off back to back injury plauged seasons. And that CC suddenly got 7 years older - must be Tejada like thing.

[teknetic]

Let's go after Bartolo Colon while we're at it.

Colon was probably the third most "deserving" of the Cy that year.

[bullitt245]

Yeah, Rasner is real good. I love that guy he will probably keep on winning my only worry about Rasner is Micheal Kay said something yesterday about Aaron Small going 10-0 and then the next year "Coming back down to earth" I'm hoping this is not the case for Rasner but could this possibly be like an Aaron Small year for him and then getting worse?

CC isn't over the Hill yet he's only what 27 maybe 28. He's not so much older then Wang. So I wouldn't have any problem shelling out the big bucks for CC. It's shelling out the lengthy 7 to 8 year contract that he would probably want that scares me. If the Yankees can somehow win big and get CC for five years that's awesome news. But, it's nice to know we've got some pretty good pitchers and it would be nice to see them step up.

True, over the hill might not have been the best word choice. I was more trying to stress the point that it seems for the first time in a long time this Yankee team has a gluttony of young arms throughout the entire system. I find it hard to believe that 3-4 can't stick and we have to get these gigantic contracts signed. Let's face it, CC won't want a short term deal. He's going to want big bucks guaranteed for a long amount of time. So yeah, maybe he'd come in and do well for us in 09 and 10 but then we get a little tired of him, and realize the mistake we made in investing so much money. CC is far from a bad pitcher, anybody can see that. In fact, he's quite the opposite.

I just seem to have a lot of confidence in the farm system and would like to see what happens with it. Another signing can be made, but it might not have to be the ace of the rotation.

[Yankee Tripper]

I just seem to have a lot of confidence in the farm system and would like to see what happens with it. Another signing can be made, but it might not have to be the ace of the rotation.

But why not sign a proven ace to go with Wang and let the kids duke it out for the 3, 4 and 5 slots? To me that would be more prudent than signing an innings eater type and hoping for the farm to realize their full potential. As the saying goes, you can never have too much pitching and if we find some how that we do, wouldn't it be nice to be able to pull off an Edinson Volquez - Josh Hamilton type trade?

[27IsNext]

I was originally against signing C.C. because of health concerns of him being so heavy, but I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that the amount of pressure on Hughes and Kennedy has caused them to perform below what they normally would. Having a top three of Sabathia, Wang and Pettitte next season would take the pressure off of them and allow them to develop at a normal rate.

[ArodMVP217]

we won't want cc to have too much pressure either, so we should sign Ben Sheets and let phil, ian and joba fight it out for 3 spots!

nvm. that is irriesponsible, but i want to give my canadien brother, rich harden a flier if beane doesn't trade him, because Beane might not pick up his 9M option.

[PeppermintPatty]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Horne in the rotation next year.

Especially if he pitches well in AAA this year.