Yep.Originally Posted by mbn007
Montero may be that rare player that makes that hop to AA but it is highly unlikely.
I guess if he goes right up to Tampa as soon as he gets 100 ABs in Charleston "and" if he then excels in Tampa it could be a long shot I guess. Too many ifs in there for me though.
Last edited by CaptainCargo; 04-14-08 at 10:42 AM.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
He still has a lot of work to do on his catching.
Am I in the minority that wants to move Montero to 1st?
Calmer than you are.
Definitely. If he can stick at C, why would you want him to move to 1B? His production is so much more valuable at C than 1B.
32 - Cito Culver, SS, New York HS
82- Angelo Gumbs, CF, California HS
112- Rob Segedin, 3B, Tulane
145- Mason Williams, OF, Florida HS
175- Thomas Kahnle, RHP, Lynn University
I'd only do that if he proved he can't catch. I don't think he has yet. He would fly through the system as a 1B.
I'm beginning to question that theory? How many great defensive and offensive 1Bs are there in the league?
Calmer than you are.
What are the benefits of moving him to 1st when he still has to prove he can't catch?
You get his bat in the major leagues quicker, you lessen the chance on injury both in the minors and throughout his career, and you fill a gigantic void on the current team.
Calmer than you are.
Who cares? It's not nearly important enough defensively to warrant giving up the huge advantage it would be to have him as a catcher even if he doesn't reach his ceiling offensively.
How quick can he get to the majors as solely a 1b?
He could easily hit to a respectable level in AA right now. So probably about 2 years...2010.
But, he is too young and too talented to rush. We've got to leave him behind the plate because his upside from that position is too great.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
Based on 10 games against A ball pitching? We are not getting ahead of ourselves here.
I thought the same thing about Tabata back when he was in Low-A. Certain players just have that ''it'' factor.
He wouldnt dominate but he would handle himself well enough.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
Lets just hope that Charleston is "that good" and not that it is Rome is "that bad".
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
No doubt. I imagine if the yanks thought he could easily hit at a respectable level at AA right now, he'd be there.
All that said, I'm not one of these guys that thinks you have to spend a year at every level. Especially premier prospects. Which right now Montero is trying to prove that he is.
Look what Justin Upton is doing in Ariz. He spent 400+ AB's in A ball, then in the next season went from A+ to AA+ then to the show. He might have been rushed, but he kept on crushing, so why hold him back.
I could EASILY see one of the catchers (if earned) move to Tampa around mid-season. And the one that does could easily start next season at AA, especially if they are pounding the ball.
Will it happen, I'd say its not probable but possible. It's really up to the players. If they prove they can dominate a level over a couple hundred at bats, why not continue to challange them.
As an aside, catchers get the hell beat out of them. Which is why they wanted to move Piazza to 1b much earlier in his career. Why would you want your best hitter (if he continues to mash) banged up all the time.
Agreed.
Playing catcher will wear you down as the year goes on. Toughest position in the game as a "full" season wears on you.
Let see how the kid fares in August and September first.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
Well they are not fully testing him at the catcher position, since he is splitting time there with Romine.
um, how about he reach tampa first before we start talking about AA?
Thats true Boss, and a good point.
Savy move by the Yanks.
Still, after playing only 33 games last season in GCL, some of that again at DH, this season will test on the kid physically a bit more than he's used to. I'm interested to see if he wears down a bit. He won't be the first youngster to show some fatigue as a full pro season wears on.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
It is the rare player who can handle AA in his teens. and Montero has 2 more "teen" years left. I really doubt he would be anything more then below average in AA today.
As a reference, just remember Cervelli last year in Tampa. He wore down towards the latter 1/3 of the season, and actually saw his playing time cut down. But his average went from the .300s to .279.
I was going to mention Cervelli Double 0. But I wasn't sure if it was all wear down and not the injury he suffered that was responsible for the drop in production.
I suppose probably a little of both.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
Not to be negative, just an observation playing devil's advocate.
But, I look at that current BA versus lefties though. And it makes me check to see if that "red flag" is still in my pocket just in case.
Probably I'm just being nitpicky.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
That, and A-Rod might be at 1b by then anyway. I'd rather give the kid a chance to catch and see what happens.
I pointed out his BA versus lefties the other day. It's kind of odd that he gets dominated by lefties, yet toasts the righties in this small sample.
They saw, I think, 7 straight lefties to start the season. Talk about odd.
I wonder if the level he's played against up to this point had nearly as many LH pitching as in organized ball here. Could it be a familiarity thing that'll pass?
What would you class as below average?
250 with a 750 OPS? If so, then that would be respectable for an 18 year old.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
It sounds like Montero would be far from a great defensive first baseman.
Defense at 1B is not very important. Outside of DH(duh!), 1B is the least defense-demanding position. At 1B you want a masher. Now if you can get a guy with Montero's offense at C and let's just say he's average defensively then he has huge value to a team. You'd have a 1B-worthy bat at C and a 1B-worthy(your first baseman who hopefully is a great hitter) bat at 1B... the offensive output would be huge.
Also, there are far less "great defensive and offensive Cs" than 1Bs. Last thing... who's to say that Montero would be anything special defensively at 1B(not that that's very important)?
32 - Cito Culver, SS, New York HS
82- Angelo Gumbs, CF, California HS
112- Rob Segedin, 3B, Tulane
145- Mason Williams, OF, Florida HS
175- Thomas Kahnle, RHP, Lynn University
This makes no sense. Logically, run prevention is just as important as creating runs. While run prevention is mostly a function of the pitcher, creating runs is also pitcher influenced. There is no such thing as a position where defence doesn't matter. It is easier to outhit you problems at defence at 1B, but the idea is to get the most value out of the player. And it is even easier to outhit D at catcher. Our own Jorge Posada is no great defensive catcher, but is still one of themost valuable C's in the league every year b/c of his hitting. Derek Jeter is another example of a still valuable player despite the D. If Montero isn't completely hopeless at C then, like you say, you have to keep him there till he proves he can't play.
Advantage Yankees
Your simply ignoring all the reasons I would want to move him to 1B. Of course a catcher is more valuable then a 1B. You really don't need to explain this to me. Where are we going to find this great 1B? We haven't been to able to find one in quite some time.
OK, lets change it, how many average-above defensive and great offensive 1Bs are there?
Catchers:
Posada
Mauer
Russell Martin
Brian McCann
Victor Martinez
1B:
Pujols
Tex
Derek Lee
Helton
I just don't think its as far apart as people think anymore.
Calmer than you are.
Yeah probably, but not out of the question that he would be average to above average.
Calmer than you are.
i hope that C list isnt a list of "great defensive and offensive C"
there are 3 pretty good hitters, but poor defenders in there (posada, martinez, and mccann)
one who is overrated in both categories (mauer)
and one who is pretty good in both, but has only 1 year of big league experience so who knows how that will wind up
edit:
and id add adrian gonzalez, carlos pena, and james loney to the list of 1B there, and thats without much thought
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
add to that that scores can at times be tacked on that aren't necessary per say, but it is always necessary to prevent runs; that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it makes some
let me ask a question, has anyone here seen Montero behind the plate with his/her own eyes?
all i really have to go by is what boards/blogs say since i have no scout, ba or bp membership. But i do like what Pena and Girardi said about him
Carlos Pena, Adrian Gonzalez, and Casey Kotchman looks like he's creeping in.
This doesn't include guys like Lance Berkman, James Loney, Prince Fielder, Justin Mourneau, and Ryan Howard.
Mo' Nut: One Smoove Brotha.
Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA
i wouldnt really use "defense" and "ryan howard" in the same sentence
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Which is why I said he wasn't included.
Mo' Nut: One Smoove Brotha.
Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA
That would be pretty good for an 18 year old in his first season in AA. But what if it was more like .230, with a sub .700 OPS? And a K rate near 30%?
That wouldn't be too good.
Let him develop at his own pace.
ah i see, i misinterpreted that statement
though morneau is actually a pretty good defender, he came out 3rd in the AL in UZR last year and loney is supposedly an excellent defender as well
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
I agree, just pure speculation on my behalf.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
Meanwhile, two years later Tabata is below the mendoza line at Trenton.
Are you commiting to saying that Tabata will be a bust for the 2008 season?
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
He is?
Tabata is batting .250 in Trenton BTW .
It might be that he just hasn't seen a lot of lefties when he was younger. My guess is pro players see them at a much higher percentage than a high school kid would.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
5 out of his last 6 games have been multi-hit games.
Yeah, what Balogma said.
We have enough youth.
How about a fountain of "smart"?
.220 actually
.220...
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