Yankees are on the verge of a pitching dynasty: per Steinbrenner

[ColombiaYanksFan]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162008..._top_97925.htm

Ross Ohlendorf and Daniel McCutcheon to Mark Melancon, Alan Horne and Andrew Brackman are all mentioned in this article, but I honestly haven't studied their scouting report much. Does anyone have inside scout depth report on these guys (besides reporters opinions)?

Also mentioned in this article are Chin Ming Wang , Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Kennedy.

"Steinbrenner and everybody else in the organization are intoxicated by the bevy of young arms assembled throughout the system"

I can almost agree with Steinbrenner, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out why Chin-Ming Wang just keeps getting worse in the playoffs on a steady basis. Is this guy just a flash in the pan (I hope not, but his actions are saying otherwise so far)? This year is critical for him, and He just lost arbitration.

Is this all wishful thinking by Steinbrenner, or is he really on to something solid?

[Rastven]

Wang keeps getting worse? By what measure exactly?
His ERA+ is steady at over 120 for 2 years
His ERA has been steady, averaging less than 3.70 the last 2 years
He's going to be the steadying influence while the big three become established.

[Nick71]

Wang getting worse? Wow. Two bad playoff performances and people flip .................

[BBombers85]

Most people forget how good Wang is because of the ALDS. He's so bad that if he didn't miss April last year he would easily won 20+ games?

[Zimmers' Helmet]

Wang is one of the Top 10 starters in the AL. Yeah, he sucks...

[Jace]

I love when writers just throw words in there. Bevies tend to intoxicate me as well

[NewEraYanks2527]

Wang is one of the Top 10 starters in the AL. Yeah, he sucks...

Hasn't he won 19 games the last 2 years with ERAs under 4 in the AL East? Yea if he did not miss April he probably would have won 20+ games.

["The Straw"]

"Wang has gotten worse",then comparing him to Chan Ho Park I'm not going to call you a crackhead but those statements are a bit crackish. On Hanks Comments regarding the young pitchers yet to prove anything I just shake my head. If 2 of those 10 end up good MLB Pitchers we were lucky.

[Yankees Empire]

I cannot figure out why Chin-Ming Wang just keeps getting worse on a steady basis (almost like Chan ho Park). Is this guy just a flash in the pan (I hope not, but his actions are saying otherwise so far)?

Wow. Do you have data to back this up? Wang is getting worse? Really?

[bigwampum]

All I need to do to appreciate CMW is to remember the Melky catch game. One of only two Yankee games I've been to in recent years. God, what a game.

[hellonewman]

I'm not going to call you a crackhead but those statements are a bit crackish.

I think ColombiaYanksFan got intoxicated by a bevy.

[DisabledMess]

Yankees are on the verge of a pitching dynasty thanks for not getting Johan. I think, but I'm not sure but I heard some one say that Hank is just like his father well I disagree with that. Hank has a little bit more patience then his father. It's actually kind of unheard of for the Yankees to go into the season without a big named star free agent pitcher on their roster. They're going young and I give Hank a lot of credit for that.

[DiMaggio5CF]

The Yankees have a lot of promising pitching prospects. That's what they have.

Prospects have the potential to be great. All of baseball's best pitchers were at one time young pitchers. The Yankees are hoping that this roll of the dice turns out positive on at least four or five of these guys. Certainly Hughes and Chamberlain look to have the potential to be number 1/2 starters. Wang is already a good number 2, and he still has youth on his side. That's really where the Yankees' hope lies. If Hughes and Chamberlain pan out and Wang continues strong, the Yankees will have a sold-to-good top three for years.

Then they'll have two spots open. That's where the other prospects come in--Kennedy, Horne, and Brackman, in particular. If the Yankees can get two of these guys to pan out, the rotation is set. And while the quality is still good, they're not at can't-miss level, but the Yankees have good quantity to make it likely that they'll be able to fill two more spots in the rotation.

It's only if one or both of the top two fail, or if all of the back three fail, that the Yankees have a problem. Certainly they have the quantity of prospects to make that unlikely. But they are still prospects, and it is still possible.

As far as Wang, he is a dominating sinkerball pitcher, but that means that his successes--and his failures--are almost directly tied to that sinker. When it's on, he's dominating, although there is the tendency for the many balls hit in play to find holes, especially on quick infields with artificial turf. But when he's off, and when the hitters are able to lift the ball, much like Ramiro Mendoza back in the day, Wang struggles greatly.

And I think it's that lack of consistency, that lack of predictability in that one pitch, that leads to the lack of confidence in Wang and results in disasters that we saw in the playoffs last season. Certainly he's on more often than he's off, but there still exists a danger in having your ace be such a risk, as we saw all too well last postseason. If Hughes and Chamberlain become the team's top two pitchers and Wang moves to the third spot, however, he's damn good. Having Wang as an ace is a roll of the dice; having Wang as a number three is an extremely deep rotation.

The fear/anxiety of Wang still exists in me that he'll get figured out by the league, as did pitchers like Hideo Nomo and Chan Ho Park and Kaz Ishii. The pitchers who come over from Japan tend to rely on some sort of deception in their delivery--which Wang does, changing the grip in the midst of his windup--which seems to work early but then gets figured out after time.

However, Wang, unlike those other pitchers, spent several seasons in the minor leagues in the US. That, I think and I hope, makes Wang different, makes him proven as a guy who can get hitters out with his stuff rather than deception. A little bit of that anxiety that hitters will figure out Wang will probably stay with me for several more seasons, but it's not really a big fear for me

[Sam18]

Uh oh owner of team makes homer statement. THE HORRORRR!!!!!

[ColombiaYanksFan]

"Wang has gotten worse",then comparing him to Chan Ho Park I'm not going to call you a crackhead but those statements are a bit crackish. On Hanks Comments regarding the young pitchers yet to prove anything I just shake my head. If 2 of those 10 end up good MLB Pitchers we were lucky.

Ok! Ok everybody! I meant getting worse in the playoffs! I corrected it.

That still doesn't excuse you Straw from not mentioning his playoffs stats. Why would you mention his great stats during the season and not a peep about his atrocious 19.06 ERA in the playoffs last year? At least he had a mediocre 4.05 ERA the year before. If that's not crakish what is?

And please don't tell me he's not to get the majority of the blame for us not advancing in the playoffs last year.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/382868

[Yankees-26rings]

Ok! Ok everybody! I meant getting worse in the playoffs! I corrected it.

That still doesn't excuse you Straw from not mentioning his playoffs stats. Why would you mention his great stats during the season and not a peep about his atrocious 19.06 ERA in the playoffs last year? At least he had a mediocre 4.05 ERA the year before. If that's not crakish what is?

And please don't tell me he's not to get the majority of the blame for us not advancing in the playoffs last year.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/382868

Three words... Small. Sample. Size.

Wang has been great these last few years however he is not the Ace that some people believe he is.

["The Straw"]

Ok! Ok everybody! I meant getting worse in the playoffs! I corrected it.

That still doesn't excuse you Straw from not mentioning his playoffs stats. Why would you mention his great stats during the season and not a peep about his atrocious 19.06 ERA in the playoffs last year? At least he had a mediocre 4.05 ERA the year before. If that's not crakish what is?

I didn't mention any of his stats


DiMaggio5CF, Wang is a lot more than you think! His success comes from a 94-97 MPH Fastball,Change up and a absolutely filthy Sinker. Not 1 O.K. pitch and deception The kid is going to win Cy Young this year,Write it down!

[montrealer]

Can we let these guys pitch 1st.......geez louise.....Hank......

[TheInfallibleOne]

Hasn't he won 19 games the last 2 years with ERAs under 4 in the AL East? Yea if he did not miss April he probably would have won 20+ games.

Didnt we suck in April? Can't guarantee he would have had that 20th win...then again the reason we sucked was because the staff wasnt going more than 5 innings at a time...

[Dave Visbeck]

Honest to God! How soon?

[Sudhakar2k]

The statement whether true or fabricated is way premature.

And Wang is good, but not great. The world great is thrown around to easily these days to describe players who aren't truly exceptional. When Wang has a sub 3.0 ERA like Santana, or Randy Johnson and Pedro in their primes then we can call him great. Playing for the Yankees, with their offense, wins are relatively easy to get.

[ColombiaYanksFan]

The statement whether true or fabricated is way premature.

Playing for the Yankees, with their offense, wins are relatively easy to get.

Good point.

[Tabata]

Uh oh owner of team makes homer statement. THE HORRORRR!!!!!

The comment wasn't even that bad to be honest. We do have some of the best pitching prospects in baseball in both the majors and miners right now. Some people are really obsessed with Hank and overreact to every little thing he says.

["The Straw"]

Playing for the Yankees, with their offense, wins are relatively easy to get.

Then why didn't Randy Johnson win 19 games? Or Pettite,Moose etc. Why didn't they win it all with a mediocre staff? I'll tell you why! your statement is ridiculous,that's why.

[jcarey]

Then why didn't Randy Johnson win 19 games? Or Pettite,Moose etc. Why didn't they win it all with a mediocre staff? I'll tell you why! your statement is ridiculous,that's why.

Dude, Pettitte won 21 games with the Yankees with an ERA over 4. RJ managed to win 17 games with an ERA over 5. Mussina has come close a few times, but hasn't pitched 200 innings in any of the past 4 years.

It should be obvious that run support has a lot to do with winning games, as does bullpen strength and defense. I'd take guys like Matt Cain, Scott Kazmir, Dan Haren, or Erik Bedard that struggle to win 10 games over Wang, Jeff Francis, Miguel Batista, and Tim Wakefield that were among the top pitchers in terms of games won last year. Geez.

["The Straw"]

Pettite won 21 in 2003 and Moose hasn't won 18 since 2002 so what exactly does that have to do with this team? I bet if Joba wins 19 it will be because he's a stud and not because of run support(eyes rolling out of head)

[jcarey]

Pettite won 21 in 2003 and Moose hasn't won 18 since 2002 so what exactly does that have to do with this team? I bet if Joba wins 19 it will be because he's a stud and not because of run support(eyes rolling out of head)

The Yankees scored 900 runs in 2002. You think an offense averaging 5.5 runs a game didn't help Andy win a few? Stick Pettitte on the Tigers that year (3.5 runs/game) and his 4 ERA doesn't allow him to sniff 20 games. Mark Redman had a 4.2 ERA for the Tigers. He won 8.

I agree that it's very hard to win 19 games if you aren't at least a DECENT pitcher. I'm just saying that it should never EVER be the only way to analyze a pitcher's performance.

[NYDCYankee]

When did George King become George King III?

[R.V.47]

Dude, Pettitte won 21 games with the Yankees with an ERA over 4. RJ managed to win 17 games with an ERA over 5. Mussina has come close a few times, but hasn't pitched 200 innings in any of the past 4 years.

It should be obvious that run support has a lot to do with winning games, as does bullpen strength and defense. I'd take guys like Matt Cain, Scott Kazmir, Dan Haren, or Erik Bedard that struggle to win 10 games over Wang, Jeff Francis, Miguel Batista, and Tim Wakefield that were among the top pitchers in terms of games won last year. Geez.

I agree, theres no doubt run support plays a lot into it for some pitchers. Pitchers should never be judged soley on the number of wins they have.

[Sudhakar2k]

Then why didn't Randy Johnson win 19 games? Or Pettite,Moose etc. Why didn't they win it all with a mediocre staff? I'll tell you why! your statement is ridiculous,that's why.

The Straw,

The last three years or so, pitchers on the Yankees have been blessed with extremely high run supoort. It would be a mistake to judge pitchers by wins because victories have just as much with the team, and not only the pitcher. If you want to determine the true production of pitcher, you have to look only at things the pitcher has control of. So I like looking at ERA, WHIP, SO/BB, and other meaningful categories. Wang is the best regular season pitcher on this team, but he is by no means one of the top 15 or 20 starters in baseball when you look at ERA, and WHIP even after ballparks and league differentials. I mean just looking at AL alone he was 14th in ERA and 19th best in WHIP in the league last year.

[Rastven]

It's also hard to judge a groundball pitcher on ERA and WHIP

[followwind]

Dude, Pettitte won 21 games with the Yankees with an ERA over 4. RJ managed to win 17 games with an ERA over 5. Mussina has come close a few times, but hasn't pitched 200 innings in any of the past 4 years.

It should be obvious that run support has a lot to do with winning games, as does bullpen strength and defense. I'd take guys like Matt Cain, Scott Kazmir, Dan Haren, or Erik Bedard that struggle to win 10 games over Wang, Jeff Francis, Miguel Batista, and Tim Wakefield that were among the top pitchers in terms of games won last year. Geez.

Dude, RJ won 17 games with ERA+ of 112 and 90. Wang won 19 games with ERA+ of 124 and 121. Let's not compare RJ's 17 wins to Wang's 19 wins.

I don't get where this Wang bashing come from. He isn't great by any means, but he has been pretty good and has been the most consistent pitcher for us in the past couple years. Granted, he was terrible in the playoff last year, but to judge the guy based on one ALDS is ridiculous.

["The Straw"]

For the record I was not judging Wang or any other pitcher by their win total.

[jcarey]

Dude, RJ won 17 games with ERA+ of 112 and 90. Wang won 19 games with ERA+ of 124 and 121. Let's not compare RJ's 17 wins to Wang's 19 wins.

I don't get where this Wang bashing come from. He isn't great by any means, but he has been pretty good and has been the most consistent pitcher for us in the past couple years. Granted, he was terrible in the playoff last year, but to judge the guy based on one ALDS is ridiculous.

That's exactly my point. If you read carefully, you'll see that. I simply stated that 'win total' is not a good indicator of performance, which is why RJ can win 17 with a below average ERA+ - too many other factors contribute to wins - run support, bullpen, defense, league, etc. SO, to say that Wang is a good pitcher BECAUSE he wins a lot of games is just a horrible argument. Absolutely horrible.

That being said, I think that Wang is underrated. I believe that with a better defense behind him, he would be close to a true ace pitcher. I'm not concerned with his higher WHIP particularly b/c he pitches to contact and some balls will get through for hits. That's the nature of his game. Just like with win totals or any other stat, you have to consider the context.

The only thing that really concerns me about Wang is his inconsistency. I'm not referring to his ALDS bed-wetting. He says he was tired, and I think that's very plausible. I'm talking about his home-away splits. I really just don't understand that, but he needs to perform better away from Yankee Stadium.

Overall, I love Wang. I think he's a hard worker, good teammate, and a nice guy. I also think he's a great pitcher, so I'm not bashing him at all. I just refuse to support a poor argument for WHY he's a good pitcher.