Was the Yankee offer to Torre Fair?

[budstinks]

I thought it was very fair. But the press today has been reaming out the Yankees.

Yes it was a pay cut, but Torre was WAY overpaid based on the early success.

$5 mil guaranteed with a possible $3 mil more seems extremely fair when you consider Pinella is the next highest paid at $3.5 mil and most are even close to Pinella.

I think Joe's pride just got the best of him and decided he didn't want to be the punching bag any more.

I think the Yanks could have taken or leaved Torre, but if that was truly the case, they could have offered him Pinella money (or less).

[Yankees1962]

I thought it was very fair.

Yes it was a pay cut, but Torre was WAY overpaid based on the early success.

$5 mil guaranteed with a possible $3 mil more seems extremely fair when you consider Pinella is the next highest paid at $3.5 mil and most are even close to Pinella.

I think Joe's pride just got the best of him and decided he didn't want to be the punching bag any more.

I think the Yanks could have taken or leaved Torre, but if that was truly the case, they could have offered him Pinella money (or less).

Was Torre underpaid from 1996-2001 for his early success?

[Casey37]

Yes it was. Still, there's something missing here. I'm really looking forward to what he has to say about what supposedly transpired in that meeting.

[destelle]

Yes it was. Still, there's something missing here. I'm really looking forward to what he has to say about what supposedly transpired in that meeting.

I agree with this 100% ... there's more to it.

[budstinks]

Was Torre underpaid from 1996-2001 for his early success?

From 97 to 99 he made about a $1 per year. I bet that was one of the highest paid managerial salaries. Managerial salaries have changed dramatically in the last 5-years, (driven by what the Yanks paid Torre).

From 00 to 01, he made $3 mil per season. I would bet that was the highest managerial salary in baseball.

So no, I don't think he was ever underpaid. His first couple years, he was still near the top even at a 1/2 mil. That's what managers were paid then.

So why should the yanks get rediculed for ONLY offering their manager the highest pay in baseball.

Shouldn't they be praised for showing financial restraint?

[PeteRFNY]

Was Torre underpaid from 1996-2001 for his early success?

In fairness, he was actually waaaay overpaid after that because he was able to use the cache of "four rings in five years" to hold a PR gun to George's head, much in the same way a player seeking a new contract after a bunch of great years would. George gave Joe the money he wanted in good faith and has no championships since to show for it.

Joe's dugout comas (the 'slump-and-stare') used to be amusing when the team was bringing home flags every year - or, at least making it to the World Series. The last few "one-and done" years, it hasn't been quite as much fun to watch. No one is saying Joe should have been another Piniella, freaking out and throwing bases over the myriad of calls that screwed the Yankees in the ALDS, or Billy Martin pacing and clapping the team on as if he were still playing...but a pulse of some kind would have been nice.

The Hermit Crabs of complacency had long since set in, going back to 2003. I was shocked that Joe wasn't given the Stump Merrill treatment after the 2004 debacle, and to be quite homest, felt that the offer the Yankees made to him yesterday was MORE than fair considering how the last batch of post-seasons have gone. I've always felt that this Yankees team under Torre won four championships, but it really should have been 7 or 8.

I appreciate what Joe did while he was here, but even the great Casey Stengel was finally given his walking papers. Joe was not gonna be here until the end of time - it's better to make some changes now than waiting until things became REALLY ugly. It's the best move for everybody.

[YankeePride1967]

Was Torre underpaid from 1996-2001 for his early success?

I think we all know that whether it be a manager or player, we are paid based upon what we did in the past and not for the current year. If Joe was underpaid those years, he more than made up for that from 02-06. His last contract was based upon his remarkable record through 2003. Since then the Yanks blew that 3-0 lead in 04 followed by three straight first round defeats with two of the three being sound defeats. Is it fair the manager seems to get most of the blame? Of course not but that's how things work. His 05-07 record, if he wanted to be paid based on performance when he got his last extension, warrants a slight decrease to where he would still be guaranteed to be the highest paid manager in the game. But as I believe you said in another thread, I think Joe felt the Yanks didn't want him back. We'll find out more later.

[longtimeyankeefan]

I think we all know that whether it be a manager or player, we are paid based upon what we did in the past and not for the current year. If Joe was underpaid those years, he more than made up for that from 02-06. His last contract was based upon his remarkable record through 2003. Since then the Yanks blew that 3-0 lead in 04 followed by three straight first round defeats with two of the three being sound defeats. Is it fair the manager seems to get most of the blame? Of course not but that's how things work. His 05-07 record, if he wanted to be paid based on performance when he got his last extension, warrants a slight decrease to where he would still be guaranteed to be the highest paid manager in the game. But as I believe you said in another thread, I think Joe felt the Yanks didn't want him back. We'll find out more later.

Exactly.

Most people who recognize my moniker would label me a Torre apologist, but I feel that this contract offer was very fair.

I equate Torre's current situation to the situation the Yankees were in with Bernie Williams when his contract expired. His productivity with the Yankees had clearly declined and the Yankees offered him an incentive laden contract with a huge decrease in base pay - much more so than what Torre was asked to take.

I don't blame Joe for not taking this contract - I can certainly see his point of view. He feels that his performance for the last 12 years speaks for itself - and it does. But his performance over the last seven years (particularly the last three years) also speaks volumes.

Eventually, an organization has to move in a new direction when the production of a major contributor begins to decline. It was time for the Yankees to move on from Joe Torre and now they have.

[In Mo I Trust]

The Yankees gave Torre an above market contract offer.

[JeffWeaverFan]

More than fair. The guy has not done a good job of late - did he expect a raise?

[PinstripePride]

Yes, fair in my view.

[Janttje]

The offer was fair..

[RhodeyYankee2638]

5 times the league average in pay for managers, plus $3 mil in bonuses, which lets face it, he was automatically going to get at least $1 mil of that

[bobby jr]

Perhaps it wasn't the dollar amount so much as it was only a one year contract offer, the fact that it was a pay cut. Also the provisions about reaching the WS as a "performance based" model, that would have to be hard to swallow, given the "crap shoot" nature of the playoffs with a lot of luck being involved.

[budstinks]

Perhaps it wasn't the dollar amount so much as it was only a one year contract offer, the fact that it was a pay cut. Also the provisions about reaching the WS as a "performance based" model, that would have to be hard to swallow, given the "crap shoot" nature of the playoffs with a lot of luck being involved.

Personally, I'm glad to see the Yankees use some post season incentive clauses.

I mean seriously, barring catastrophe, the Yanks money (ability to keep 6 starting pitchers when others are lucky to have 4) should keep them in the hunt every year for a playoff spot.

[Jdkush10]

Personally, I'm glad to see the Yankees use some post season incentive clauses.

I mean seriously, barring catastrophe, the Yanks money (ability to keep 6 starting pitchers when others are lucky to have 4) should keep them in the hunt every year for a playoff spot.

Postseason incentive clauses for a manager are ridiculous. Yes, the manager has some influence on the outcome of the game, but the results are ultimately decided by the manager. It's not Torre's fault that Jeter, A-Rod, et. al did not play to the same standard as they did during the regular season. Even if he was offered $5M, that is still close to a 25% pay cut - that's a severe decrease in salary (don't get me wrong, still A LOT of money) and Torre's pride obviously came into play there. I know it'd be awfully hard for me if my employer came to me with an offer that was even 10% less than the salary I currently make, let alone 25%.

The Yankees have made the playoffs 12 straight years under Torre. The White Sox went from winning the World Series to nearly finishing in last place two years later, and they extend Guillen - by that criteria, how in the world do you not extend Torre? A one year extension basically tells him that he will be a lame duck manager for the 2008 season. I know his managerial decisions can be somewhat questionable, but he deserved a better shake than this. He was essentially given an offer that the Yankees knew he would turn down.

[YankeePride1967]

Postseason incentive clauses for a manager are ridiculous. Yes, the manager has some influence on the outcome of the game, but the results are ultimately decided by the manager. It's not Torre's fault that Jeter, A-Rod, et. al did not play to the same standard as they did during the regular season. Even if he was offered $5M, that is still close to a 25% pay cut - that's a severe decrease in salary (don't get me wrong, still A LOT of money) and Torre's pride obviously came into play there. I know it'd be awfully hard for me if my employer came to me with an offer that was even 10% less than the salary I currently make, let alone 25%.

The Yankees have made the playoffs 12 straight years under Torre. The White Sox went from winning the World Series to nearly finishing in last place two years later, and they extend Guillen - by that criteria, how in the world do you not extend Torre? A one year extension basically tells him that he will be a lame duck manager for the 2008 season. I know his managerial decisions can be somewhat questionable, but he deserved a better shake than this. He was essentially given an offer that the Yankees knew he would turn down.

If the manager only has "SOME" influence on how a team does, then why does Joe get so much credit for winning those world series, but then not be expected to receive criticism or blame when they don't do as well? The one thing I would have done if the Yanks did want him back is offer him a flat 2 year $10 million deal and if he didn't want that then wish him the best.

[CommerceComet]

Personally, I'm glad to see the Yankees use some post season incentive clauses.

Yes, for the new manager. I am not surprised that Joe Torre was insulted by it.

The answer to the initial question is yes and no. Depends on what it is compared to. Compared to the current market for managers, the offer was more than fair. Compared to his previous contract, it represented a 33% pay cut after possibly his best ever regular-season managing job.

[budstinks]

Yes, for the new manager. I am not surprised that Joe Torre was insulted by it.

The answer to the initial question is yes and no. Depends on what it is compared to. Compared to the current market for managers, the offer was more than fair. Compared to his previous contract, it represented a 33% pay cut after possibly his best ever regular-season managing job.

Lets face it, managers are grossly over-rated.

There are more, but some of the more important items are:

A: Can they motivate players to be their best and for the team? At this level, players should motivate themselves. I'll give Joe an B here.
B: Can they use common sense in using a bullpen? Joe sucks here, end of discussion.
C: Can they make personnel decisions and then sell that decision to the players? Can they keep peace in the club house? Joe gets an A here. A few fallouts, but heck this is NY. Otherall, best job in a LONG time.

I mean really, 1/2 the fans on this site could fill out a lineup card that would work.

The Joba rules, if any thing, told EVERYBODY that the Yanks don't think that highly of Joe's managerial skills. That may be sticking in his teeth as well.

All I know is that NOBODY is that much better than everyone else to where they are indispensable.

[budstinks]

Perhaps it wasn't the dollar amount so much as it was only a one year contract offer, the fact that it was a pay cut. Also the provisions about reaching the WS as a "performance based" model, that would have to be hard to swallow, given the "crap shoot" nature of the playoffs with a lot of luck being involved.

Well, based on what the Yankees expect, what else could he have expected?

I wouldn't have wanted to give him a three year deal either.

I'm guessing he thought he had a lot more leverage than he really did and overplayed it right out of the best paying managerial job in baseball.

If he finds a job elsewhere, I doubt he gets Pinella type money.

Personally, I think he looks tired and needs a year off.

[JeffWeaverFan]

If he finds a job elsewhere, I doubt he gets Pinella type money.

I disagree with that. I could see him getting the LA job in 2009 and getting $4M a year, or something like that.

[budstinks]

I disagree with that. I could see him getting the LA job in 2009 and getting $4M a year, or something like that.

Who knows what the going rate for managers will be in 09?

We're talking 08. Why would any team pay him $4 mil knowing there isn't any other team out there (other than the Yanks that would?)

Maybe I just don't see the value in Torre. He runs a steady ship, but he manages pitchers like crap.

[mentalgidget]

Is the next manager going to get a similarly strutcured deal?
If they hold the line and use a "perfomrance based model" for the next manager then, I would think the offer to Torre was More than fair but if they end up giving the next skipper a multi year deal, that doesn't have an option tied to postseason performance, I think that would speak volumes about what their intentions were with Torre

[BRNXBMRS]

This contract wasnt about the money. Torre lost his allies within the organization. Good for Joe, I am glad he told the yanks to shove it.

[TheBamTino24]

I didn't like the whole tenor of the contract. You either believe in him or you do not. You offer him a multi-year deal without silly incentives or say you're going in another direction.

Don't give me this one year stuff with this nonsense of putting a carrott in front him of him for the posesason. The guy has been here for 12 years. That's an insult...like he wasn't trying, or "motivated" as Levine alluded to. Yeah, he wasn't motivated. This freaking overpriced team was 21-29 and he got them back.

And you guys really think it's fair to put the manager in a spot where he could burn out young pitchers for incentives? WTF? Or pay him a $1M for winning 3 ALDS games?

I think we should instill paycuts on Wang, Rodriguez, and Jeter, too. Let them reach their full salary per round of the postseason.

I would have told them to shove it face to face as well. You have to have some dignity in life, and Torre has accomplished enough and has enough resources to do so.

Here's the kicker: I would have voted "fair" if he declined a guranateed a 2 year, $10M deal.

[goin for 27]

No, it was not fair. The offer was designed to have Torre refuse. It is not about money at that point. Incentives? Is the Yankee Brass, Levine, etc being paid in incentives? No.

Should the Yanks offer ARod a one year, drastically reduced salary with incentives if he hits in the postseason? Of course not. How about Rivera? Worst year of his career, statistically. Offer him a reduced contract?

The Yanks should have sacked up and said that they just wanted to go in another direction, which would have been the dignified way to go. Torre was nothing if not classy in his tenure, this was ham handed, and a stunt.

People here can argue left and right, but watch the networks, read the respected writers, this was a classless, gutless way to have Torre go.

(And I was ambivalent, and could see both sides of him staying/going)

[junkman73]

The offer was more than fair. I don't know if it was fair to Joe to make it a 'take it or leave it' situation. I think it should have been the starting point for a dialogue, but the money and the opportunity is very generous.

Joe knows its WS or bust with the Yankees. He knew that before he signed his last deal. He's almost a victim of the success he helped create. Kind of ironic.

[YankeePride1967]

I didn't like the whole tenor of the contract. You either believe in him or you do not. You offer him a multi-year deal without silly incentives or say you're going in another direction.

Don't give me this one year stuff with this nonsense of putting a carrott in front him of him for the posesason. The guy has been here for 12 years. That's an insult...like he wasn't trying, or "motivated" as Levine alluded to. Yeah, he wasn't motivated. This freaking overpriced team was 21-29 and he got them back.

And you guys really think it's fair to put the manager in a spot where he could burn out young pitchers for incentives? WTF? Or pay him a $1M for winning 3 ALDS games?

I think we should instill paycuts on Wang, Rodriguez, and Jeter, too. Let them reach their full salary per round of the postseason.

I would have told them to shove it face to face as well. You have to have some dignity in life, and Torre has accomplished enough and has enough resources to do so.

Here's the kicker: I would have voted "fair" if he declined a guranateed a 2 year, $10M deal.

I was fine with this one or a 2/10 contract.

[Bleacher_Creature]

This was a slap in the face, I don't think it was about the money, it probably had something to do with the lack of respect given to him by the Yankee brass. I want to hear Joe's side of the story, I'll trust him more than Levine. Joe has nothing to prove to nobody in my eyes.

[texasyankee]

This was a slap in the face, I don't think it was about the money, it probably had something to do with the lack of respect given to him by the Yankee brass. I want to hear Joe's side of the story, I'll trust him more than Levine. Joe has nothing to prove to nobody in my eyes.

i agree with you, whole-heartedly......

[Mantle'sMutt]

I didn't like the whole tenor of the contract. You either believe in him or you do not. You offer him a multi-year deal without silly incentives or say you're going in another direction.

Don't give me this one year stuff with this nonsense of putting a carrott in front him of him for the posesason. The guy has been here for 12 years. That's an insult...like he wasn't trying, or "motivated" as Levine alluded to. Yeah, he wasn't motivated. This freaking overpriced team was 21-29 and he got them back.

And you guys really think it's fair to put the manager in a spot where he could burn out young pitchers for incentives? WTF? Or pay him a $1M for winning 3 ALDS games?

I think we should instill paycuts on Wang, Rodriguez, and Jeter, too. Let them reach their full salary per round of the postseason.

I would have told them to shove it face to face as well. You have to have some dignity in life, and Torre has accomplished enough and has enough resources to do so.

Here's the kicker: I would have voted "fair" if he declined a guranateed a 2 year, $10M deal.

Personally, I think this is the bottomline. Fair or not and by whatever measure you use, the Yanks tendered an offer that they knew would be refused and good for Torre to turn it down. If folks tend to view the whole thing as an "it was good money so therefore it was fair" issue, they miss the much larger and much more salient point. But here, now, they part ways. I will be very intertested to hear what Joe says but, given Torre's integrity, I doubt he'll spill any dirty water - and I'll wager big money that he could do so, big time. That is one thing about Joe, though - look long and hard, you might find better field coaches but you will never find one with more integrity or just plain ole common sense.

[Murcer1]

I didn't like the whole tenor of the contract. You either believe in him or you do not. You offer him a multi-year deal without silly incentives or say you're going in another direction.

Don't give me this one year stuff with this nonsense of putting a carrott in front him of him for the posesason. The guy has been here for 12 years. That's an insult...like he wasn't trying, or "motivated" as Levine alluded to. Yeah, he wasn't motivated. This freaking overpriced team was 21-29 and he got them back.

And you guys really think it's fair to put the manager in a spot where he could burn out young pitchers for incentives? WTF? Or pay him a $1M for winning 3 ALDS games?

I think we should instill paycuts on Wang, Rodriguez, and Jeter, too. Let them reach their full salary per round of the postseason.

I would have told them to shove it face to face as well. You have to have some dignity in life, and Torre has accomplished enough and has enough resources to do so.

Here's the kicker: I would have voted "fair" if he declined a guranateed a 2 year, $10M deal.

I couldn't have said it better myself. You are 100% on target.

[MunsonNY15]

I didn't like the whole tenor of the contract. You either believe in him or you do not. You offer him a multi-year deal without silly incentives or say you're going in another direction.

Don't give me this one year stuff with this nonsense of putting a carrott in front him of him for the posesason. The guy has been here for 12 years. That's an insult...like he wasn't trying, or "motivated" as Levine alluded to. Yeah, he wasn't motivated. This freaking overpriced team was 21-29 and he got them back.

And you guys really think it's fair to put the manager in a spot where he could burn out young pitchers for incentives? WTF? Or pay him a $1M for winning 3 ALDS games?

I think we should instill paycuts on Wang, Rodriguez, and Jeter, too. Let them reach their full salary per round of the postseason.

I would have told them to shove it face to face as well. You have to have some dignity in life, and Torre has accomplished enough and has enough resources to do so.

Here's the kicker: I would have voted "fair" if he declined a guranateed a 2 year, $10M deal.

There was no need to read further into this thread. TBT summed it up perfectly, IMO.

Heidi

[sjb23]

Fair? Yes
Honest? No

Here's my whole take, for what it's worth:

If the Yankee organization would've handled this differently, it could have accomplished many many good things, not only affecting 2008, but for several years thereafter. My guess is that ownership had no problem with Torre managing the club in 2008, but didn't want him managing in 2009, for a number of reasons. Why not be upfront with Joe, and tell him that? Tell him his role in 2008 will be to help ring out the old and bring in the new for 2009. Help Mattingly get ready to take over the ship in 2009, help the veterans and the younger players get used to the idea that things have to change, that the Yankees will reward winning and not settle for anything short of it. I think Joe could have accepted this, because he has always asked for the truth, and he wants to feel needed. He's a realist, and knows his job won't last forever. He'll be 69 in 2009 - what a perfect way to ride off into the sunset! He'd have nothing to lose and everything to gain. His legacy will have a storybook ending and he will be remembered for being a mentor as well as the winningest manager in Yankee Stadium history. Oh and by the way, Joe, we're going to re-sign Posada and Rivera and A-Rod and give you another chance at getting that fifth ring.

The club finally has a crop of young pitching prospects that can really help make the club a powerhouse when they open up the new stadium. But they have to hold onto them, and help them grow and mature in 2008, in a town that will easily grow impatient as these pitchers go through inevitable growing pains. Say what you will about Torre, but he is a player's manager, and even the younger players like Chamberlain, Cano, Cabrera, and Wang are singing the praises of the leadership and tolerance that Torre and his staff show. Who better to teach these players how to stay even-keeled and focused, even in a city that can be the most distracting?

The organization must think about marketing and public relations, both now and covering the next few years. They publicly state that the team goal each and every year is to win a championship, knowing that of course it's impossible to do that -- but it's committment to winning certainly helps sell tickets, sparks interest, and creates revenue. I'm sure that sometime in 2008, they will begin selling those club suites they so badly wanted more of. My guess is they'll be selling them for more than one season at a time and will charge exhorbitant prices for them.

They have to put Don Mattingly in a position where he can be successful in 2009, because they can't afford for him to NOT be successful. If he has another year to mentally prepare for his new role, it can only help him -- I don't think they feel he is ready to take over in 2008.

All they had to do was be honest and offer him a guaranteed $7M for 2008 only. I think Joe Torre would have appreciated it and accepted it.

[yankees135]

I thought it was very fair. But the press today has been reaming out the Yankees.

Yes it was a pay cut, but Torre was WAY overpaid based on the early success.

$5 mil guaranteed with a possible $3 mil more seems extremely fair when you consider Pinella is the next highest paid at $3.5 mil and most are even close to Pinella.

I think Joe's pride just got the best of him and decided he didn't want to be the punching bag any more.

I think the Yanks could have taken or leaved Torre, but if that was truly the case, they could have offered him Pinella money (or less).

I can't say I blame him for that. I think he was not at all concerned about the $ as much as the years. Had they offered 10 million for 2 years, I suspect he would ahve taken the offer despite the paycut. Certainly 15 million for 3 years I can't imagine him turning down.

That would have been saying, "We thought about it a lot, and we decided that you are clearly the best man for the job. We would like to commit ourselves to you for the next few years."

A one year contract is not a "fair" offer (depending on what you mean by fair I supose). But with a 1 year offer, you know if the yankees got off to a lousy start, we'd be hearing about how Torre was going to be fired all over again.

He would be crazy to take the contract.

[TheBamTino24]

I think a better way to ask about the fairness is this:

Do you think the Yankees actually wanted Torre back?

I don't think so. And that's their right. I would have handled it differently, that's all.

[budstinks]

I think a better way to ask about the fairness is this:

Do you think the Yankees actually wanted Torre back?

I don't think so. And that's their right. I would have handled it differently, that's all.

So if the Yanks had simply said "no thanks Joe, We're going in a different direction."

That would have been OK?

I don't see the dishonesty in what they offered him. They were basically saying, Joe we aren't happy with the post season results.

We expect more when we pay someone twice what any other manager out there makes and 7 times the average salary.

Maybe I'm just cold blooded, but I think the Yanks offer was more than fair and Joe just stepped all over his own ego.

I wouldn't call Joe greedy, but I imagine what Joe's thought process was, "If I'm going to have to put up with all this sheet in NY, I'm not taking a paycut."

Sitting out a year won't be the worst thing to ever happen to Torre either. He looks tired.

[TheBamTino24]

If it's Showalter, say goodbye to Rodriguez.

[JohnnyDamonfan]

It wasn't really about the money. Joe is still one of the highest paid managers ever. So was the offer fair money wise? Yes! But it's the way that the Yankees wanted Joe to prove himself by only giving him one year that made the deal unfair. So in reality the deal was kinda unfair.

[powerpinstripes]

The missing part is this:

Here is the scenario :

Joe knew he was gone- His tenor at the post game press conference confirms this. His players knew-that is why they all looked so devasted. His coaches knew, that is why we heard about tears. This is why Suzyn was in tears. No one was crying because they lost the ALDS.

But lo and behold, Big Steins "Torre is gone if we don't make it to the next round" statement turns public sympathy towards Torre. The Yankee Tampa brass sees the outpouring of support from the players, media, fans, etc, and say "we can't just dump this guy, we will get crucified", so they wait it out. Try to get some distance, see if the wind shifts in the court of public opinion so we can kick him to the curb and not look like the bad guy. This doesn't happen. The more time that passes the sentiment to keep Torre grows, not diminishes during the 9 day vigil. Brain Trust comes up with a BS 1 year deal, they know he won't take. Brain Trust thinks this will be a PR win/win for them, "Joe turned us down, we wanted him back". No one believe this.

Major backfire for the Yankees, I hope Joe tells it likes it is today. No more need to tow the company line. The company looks foolish today, no need for Joe to make them look better. He has punched out.

[budstinks]

The missing part is this:

Here is the scenario :

Joe knew he was gone- His tenor at the post game press conference confirms this. His players knew-that is why they all looked so devasted. His coaches knew, that is why we heard about tears. This is why Suzyn was in tears. No one was crying because they lost the ALDS.

But lo and behold, Big Steins "Torre is gone if we don't make it to the next round" statement turns public sympathy towards Torre. The Yankee Tampa brass sees the outpouring of support from the players, media, fans, etc, and say "we can't just dump this guy, we will get crucified", so they wait it out. Try to get some distance, see if the wind shifts in the court of public opinion so we can kick him to the curb and not look like the bad guy. This doesn't happen. The more time that passes the sentiment to keep Torre grows, not diminishes during the 9 day vigil. Brain Trust comes up with a BS 1 year deal, they know he won't take. Brain Trust thinks this will be a PR win/win for them, "Joe turned us down, we wanted him back". No one believe this.

Major backfire for the Yankees, I hope Joe tells it likes it is today. No more need to tow the company line. The company looks foolish today, no need for Joe to make them look better. He has punched out.

This whole thing about waiting to let things blow over is total bull sheet.

10 fricking days?

I mean to you not honestly think they wanted to hold discussions over Torre?

I mean, I've taken months to make up my mind about $10k purchases and they can't think it over and discuss an $8 mil commitment for a week and a 1/2 and they are spun like they are PR players.

TOTAL MEDIA BULL SHEET! Spun by people who wouldn't understand a multi-million dollar decision/negotiation if they fell into one.

[Yanks4eva1]

I depends what you mean by fairness.

Remember, no one put a gun to the Steinbrenner's head to offer Joe Torre $7M to manage this team.

Once you give a person that amount of money, then you cut his salary and add incentives that are really stupid and one that is a virtual crapshoot, then yes it was unfair.

You're adding an incentive of $1M to get the team to the postseason. That's BS. He's done that for 12 freaking years. The other incentives are stupid and no amount of money would be worth all that pressure. No money is worth it. He's not God. If there is a catastrophic injury to a major player in 2008, what's he to do?

The Steinbrenners are once again showing their true colors. They have no people skills and they are on the verge of ruining this team once again. They know how to make money, no doubt, but their business acumen when it comes to emotional intelligence and dealing with people - well, they are failures. Frankly, they are a stupid bunch.

Their "do it now" reactive personality (really, it's George and it seems the apples haven't fallen far from the tree) ruined this team back in 1981 when he got rid of Reggie Jackson. Now we are doing it all over again. Ugh. The end of an era occurred yesterday, ironically on the 30th anniversary of when the other Yankee era began - Reggie hit those 3 HRs in WS game 6, 30 years ago yesterday.

What they did to Torre was a shame. Do they actually think anything good can come out of this disgraceful way of ending Joe's tenure with the Yankees? The players will start to think - if they can do this to Joe, what will happen when my time comes?

Class - that belonged to Joe Torre. Now he is gone, the Steinbrenners are showing who they really are, and frankly who they have always been. We've gone back from class to crass in a single day.

Welcome to my old world, spoiled Yankee fans (those who became fans during the Joe Torre era).

Hate to be Chicken Little today, but I've been a Yankee fan long enough to see the signs.

Dee

[Zimmers' Helmet]

I depends what you mean by fairness.

Remember, no one put a gun to the Steinbrenner's head to offer Joe Torre $7M to manage this team.

Once you give a person that amount of money, then you cut his salary and add incentives that are really stupid and one that is a virtual crapshoot, then yes it was unfair.

You're adding an incentive of $1M to get the team to the postseason. That's BS. He's done that for 12 freaking years. The other incentives are stupid and no amount of money would be worth all that pressure. No money is worth it. He's not God. If there is a catastrophic injury to a major player in 2008, what's he to do?

The Steinbrenners are once again showing their true colors. They have no people skills and they are on the verge of ruining this team once again. They know how to make money, no doubt, but their business acumen when it comes to emotional intelligence and dealing with people - well, they are failures. Frankly, they are a stupid bunch.

Their "do it now" reactive personality (really, it's George and it seems the apples haven't fallen far from the tree) ruined this team back in 1981 when he got rid of Reggie Jackson. Now we are doing it all over again. Ugh. The end of an era occurred yesterday, ironically on the 30th anniversary of when the other Yankee era began - Reggie hit those 3 HRs in WS game 6, 30 years ago yesterday.

What they did to Torre was a shame. Do they actually think anything good can come out of this disgraceful way of ending Joe's tenure with the Yankees? The players will start to think - if they can do this to Joe, what will happen when my time comes?

Class - that belonged to Joe Torre. Now he is gone, the Steinbrenners are showing who they really are, and frankly who they have always been. We've gone back from class to crass in a single day.

Welcome to my old world, spoiled Yankee fans (those who became fans during the Joe Torre era).

Hate to be Chicken Little today, but I've been a Yankee fan long enough to see the signs.

Dee

Perfectly stated in every aspect.

[Mantle'sMutt]

I depends what you mean by fairness.

Remember, no one put a gun to the Steinbrenner's head to offer Joe Torre $7M to manage this team.

Once you give a person that amount of money, then you cut his salary and add incentives that are really stupid and one that is a virtual crapshoot, then yes it was unfair.

You're adding an incentive of $1M to get the team to the postseason. That's BS. He's done that for 12 freaking years. The other incentives are stupid and no amount of money would be worth all that pressure. No money is worth it. He's not God. If there is a catastrophic injury to a major player in 2008, what's he to do?

The Steinbrenners are once again showing their true colors. They have no people skills and they are on the verge of ruining this team once again. They know how to make money, no doubt, but their business acumen when it comes to emotional intelligence and dealing with people - well, they are failures. Frankly, they are a stupid bunch.

Their "do it now" reactive personality (really, it's George and it seems the apples haven't fallen far from the tree) ruined this team back in 1981 when he got rid of Reggie Jackson. Now we are doing it all over again. Ugh. The end of an era occurred yesterday, ironically on the 30th anniversary of when the other Yankee era began - Reggie hit those 3 HRs in WS game 6, 30 years ago yesterday.

What they did to Torre was a shame. Do they actually think anything good can come out of this disgraceful way of ending Joe's tenure with the Yankees? The players will start to think - if they can do this to Joe, what will happen when my time comes?

Class - that belonged to Joe Torre. Now he is gone, the Steinbrenners are showing who they really are, and frankly who they have always been. We've gone back from class to crass in a single day.

Welcome to my old world, spoiled Yankee fans (those who became fans during the Joe Torre era).

Hate to be Chicken Little today, but I've been a Yankee fan long enough to see the signs.

Dee

Dee speaks with an articulate and accurate sense of history. I tend to have a bit more optimism that common sense and at least some of the recently gained tacit if not institutionalized power in the GM will help to ward of the Levine types in the long run and after the dust settles. That said, the idea that some of these, shall we say, less than qualified bufoons, may be jockeying for power and/or looking to smake a splash are disconcerting. And, though it does seem that the Yankees have more accountability than in previous purges with a comparitively sound Boss, but you make a very good case with respect to "seeing the signs". I am sure it is a subject about which you'd love to be wrong.- so good for you, too.

[TheScooter]

Is life fair?

Torre walked from the best job in professional sports because his feelings were hurt

The Yankees have paid him $21 million the last 3 years and they haven't won a playoff series.Not the World Series.A PLAYOFF SERIES

Shouldn't Torre held accountable for those results?This is not a trip down memory lane

The highest manager in the game can't get his team out of the first round

Eric Wedge made a $1 million in 07

Tito is making $1.65 million this season and I'm supposed to feel sorry for Torre who turned down a guaranteed $5 million.................please

Tito has playoff based bonuses in his contract

Terry Francona Manager
2 years/$4.05M (2007-08)

• signed extension 3/06
  • $0.65M bonus at signing ($1.25M total for 06)
    
  • 07:$1.65M, 08:$1.75M
  • bonuses for making playoffs, winning LDS, LCS, World Series

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...n-red-sox.html

Not Mr.Torre.His head and ego have gotten too big for his own good

[Zimmers' Helmet]

Is life fair?

Torre walked from the best job in professional sports because his feelings were hurt

The Yankees have paid him $21 million the last 3 years and they haven't won a playoff series.Not the World Series.A PLAYOFF SERIES

Shouldn't Torre held accountable for those results?This is not a trip down memory lane

The highest manager in the game can't get his team out of the first round

Eric Wedge made a $1 million in 07

Tito is making $1.65 million this season and I'm supposed to feel sorry for Torre who turned down a guaranteed $5 million.................please

Tito has playoff based bonuses in his contract

Terry Francona Manager
2 years/$4.05M (2007-08)

• signed extension 3/06
  • $0.65M bonus at signing ($1.25M total for 06)
    
  • 07:$1.65M, 08:$1.75M
  • bonuses for making playoffs, winning LDS, LCS, World Series

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...n-red-sox.html

Not Mr.Torre.His head and ego have gotten too big for his own good

Yeah his ego..., how would you react if after working for your employer for 12 years, and helping make your company more profitable than it's ever been; your boss were to call you into the office tomorrow morning and tell you that if you want to continue your employment there, that you will have to accept a 23% pay cut.

Yeah, Im sure you won't feel insulted or offended....give me a break.

[whalers]

Yeah his ego..., how would you react if after working for your employer for 12 years, and helping make your company more profitable than it's ever been; your boss were to call you into the office tomorrow morning and tell you that if you want to continue your employment there, that you will have to accept a 23% pay cut.

Yeah, Im sure you won't feel insulted or offended....give me a break.

I'd be happy to still have a job if I had failed so miserabley at my job back in 2004.

[ToneinTO]

I'd be happy to still have a job if I had failed so miserabley at my job back in 2004.

Me too.

[wileedog]

Yeah his ego..., how would you react if after working for your employer for 12 years, and helping make your company more profitable than it's ever been; your boss were to call you into the office tomorrow morning and tell you that if you want to continue your employment there, that you will have to accept a 23% pay cut.

Yeah, Im sure you won't feel insulted or offended....give me a break.

If I had failed at my employers stated mission statemetent for 7 straight years, I would be pretty happy he was still offering me more than anyone in the else in the world to do my job.

You're right though, its about ego. Torre - and obviously many other people here, doesn't believe he has failed the past 7 years or the past 4 in particular. Its obvious he thinks what he did 96-00 warrants lifetime employment, and utmost faith from management.

The Yankees obviously feel differently, and many others of us don't blame them. From the Yankees standpoint, given their shaky opinion of his recent job performance, the offer was more than fair.

I still don't believe it was an 'offer he won't accept' plan. Kay on ESPN said he talked to a lot of Yankee Brass, and they wanted him back for a year, probably to give Mattingly another year to transition. But I don't think there was any way there were going to guarantee a 2nd year other than a WS, and that's what Torre wanted more than the money.

[PJMPirate]

You're right though, its about ego. Torre - and obviously many other people here, doesn't believe he has failed the past 7 years or the past 4 in particular. Its obvious he thinks what he and his players did 96-00 warrants lifetime employment, and utmost faith from management.

Fixed it for you.