First Base and Eye Chart in 2008..........

[Retire21]

I know a lot of you killed the Doug M. signing, but I think he really contributed to this team in September and October. His defense was a welcome sight after years of watching less than capable players put on the glove (save for Olerud in 2004).

I believe Eye Chart is a free agent now, and with the addition of Duncan, where do you think that leaves the first base position for 2008? Do we re-sign Eye Chart to another 1-yr. deal? Let Duncan take over?

I could see it going either way, but I'm going to give Doug some props here. Defensively he was great, provided surprising pop at times and showed he could be counted on to bunt. Beyond that, he seemed to appreciate being a Yankee and was a good clubhouse presence. I wouldn't mind bringing him back.

[nnysiny]

hes going to be 34, had a 73 OPS+ in an offense-heavy position, was injured last year, and is even declining defensively. its not going to be worth the $3 mil, especially if Wang is traded

[jughead]

Cash in on his good season (112 OPS+). Arbitration -> Draft Picks -> Andy Phillips takes his role

hes going to be 34, had a 73 OPS+ in an offense-heavy position, was injured last year, and is even declining defensively. its not going to be worth the $3 mil, especially if Wang is traded

You read the TB column instead of the OPS+ column

[ebas]

hes going to be 34, had a 73 OPS+ in an offense-heavy position, was injured last year, and is even declining defensively. its not going to be worth the $3 mil, especially if Wang is traded

Didn't Doug M. make $1.5 million this year? Where is the 3 mil figure coming from? For 1.5 mil, I say bring him back with the intention to make him a backup. I don't know why fans stress so much about nickel and diming salaries anyway. The Yankees are wasting tens of millions of dollars on so many useless players, that 1.5 mil for a player like minky can be done without blinking an eyelash. His salary was one of the few bargains in 2007.

Also, i don't know what Wang has to do with it. All the Yankee pitchers benefit from good infield defense. Minky made game saving plays for more people then Wang. Finally, I haven't noticed that his defense is declining unless you just assume the year older, year worse model. Minky gave several spectacular defensive clinics over the course of the season. He looked very sharp out there.

If Andy Phillips or Duncan can't hold down the job, Minky is a nice fallback position until Cash can figure out something via trade in season or free agency for 2009. I know people drool over power hitting 1st basemen, but it's not a must have on this team.

[yanksphan]

as a backup and defensive replacement? absolutely.

Cashman MUST find someone to play the other 140+ games though.

[ppa79]

If he could play multiple positions then I would bring him back, but he can't Lets go out and get a real 1st baseman.

[Evil Empire]

"I love this place. The energy you feel when you walk through those doors, you can't put into words," said Mientkiewicz, who is unsigned for 2008. "I told Tino [Martinez], 'I'd give my right arm for another crack at this.' "

Maybe he should tell Rodriguez.

"Selfishly, I hope he comes back," Mientkiewicz said. "Because I think it helps my chances."



He apparently wants to come back. (From the link I found in another thread http://www.bergenrecord.com/page.php...Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2 )

[wang+cano=future]

I like what Minky brought to the table this year. However, there isnt room for Phillips and Minky on the team next year, and Phillips is the one that will be cheaper, is already under contract, has similar offensive pop and plays good defense. If they can find something better via a trade then fine, but I would just assume let Phillips win the job in ST.

[primetime714]

I liked what we got from Doug, but next year I think you have to look for Phillips, Duncan, and Betemit to compete for that spot. If Doug wants to give it another go here I'd let him compete but I can't say his chances are that good especially when you consider all three of those guys can play several different positions and all of them are better than Doug offensively. In terms of defense Phillips is excellent there, Betemit is solid, and despite reports of being a poor defensive player I thought Duncan played the position quite well also.

[ChinMusic]

Whats this about Wang being traded?

[nycdoc999]

Rumors (unsubstantiated of course) flying around that Wang is the centerpiece of a deal for Santana....

[yankees135]

i think we should be going with Minky, Phillips, and Duncan, riding whoever is the hot bat at the time. So, IMO, we should keep Minky for another 1 year deal assuming he wants to stay.

[BRNXBMRS]

ANdy Phillips will be the full time 1b in 08 for the Yanks.

[BRNXBMRS]

Rumors (unsubstantiated of course) flying around that Wang is the centerpiece of a deal for Santana....

What website are these rumors on?

[nycdoc999]

It was in Peter Gammon's article on ESPN.com

[wang+cano=future]

Wang has a bad postseason and automatically there are rumors he will be traded, just like ARod last year. It would take Wang and atleast 2 of our better/best prospects to get Santana.

[YankeeinCT]

If they could only get rid of Giambi, I'd be happy with Phillips and Doug on 1st base.

[Mark19]

I would go with a platoon of Shelley Duncan and Brad Wilkerson. Both have the potential to hit 20 HRs in limited time and can provide solid defense. Phillips, Betemit and Molina would round out the bench.

[NewEraYanks2527]

I would go with a platoon of Shelley Duncan and Brad Wilkerson. Both have the potential to hit 20 HRs in limited time and can provide solid defense. Phillips, Betemit and Molina would round out the bench.

That just isn't a great defensive first if that is the case. Well it doesn't seem it, I'm kind of too lazy and deflated these days to look up Wilkerson's defensive stats but I know Duncan is less then average with the glove at first.

[TheInfallibleOne]

I would go with a platoon of Shelley Duncan and Brad Wilkerson. Both have the potential to hit 20 HRs in limited time and can provide solid defense. Phillips, Betemit and Molina would round out the bench.

Wilkerson is terrible. I never wanted him and I never will. He was K machine the past 2 years (which is fine if you put up arod numbers next to it, but he simply cant)

i would go with Shelley Duncan and Andy Phillips.

[WashingtonYankee]

Keep Doug. He helped us a lot.

[Mark19]

Wilkerson is terrible. I never wanted him and I never will. He was K machine the past 2 years (which is fine if you put up arod numbers next to it, but he simply cant)

i would go with Shelley Duncan and Andy Phillips.

The guy was never healthy and never received consistent playing time until midway through this season. He can provide above average defense around the outfield and first base. His OBP isn't fantastic but he did hit 32 HRs for the Expos a few years ago and slugged enough this season to make up for a poor average.

[RIYankeeFan]

It was in Peter Gammon's article on ESPN.com

Peter Gammons is a doofus.

Cashmans plan is on track. No "rebuilding" is ever easy. Other wise every loosing team in baseball would do it, EVERY year. I don't see him trading Wang and 2 more potential starters for 1 shutdown starter.

Wang is 46-18, that plays out to 15-6 every year. It's like trading away 40+ potential wins each year for a LHP to win 20 with more K's.

[TheInfallibleOne]

The guy was never healthy and never received consistent playing time until midway through this season. He can provide above average defense around the outfield and first base. His OBP isn't fantastic but he did hit 32 HRs for the Expos a few years ago and slugged enough this season to make up for a poor average.

The Expos have been gona long enough that those 32HR dont matter anymore. Abreu hit 30 HR that year. Moises Alou 39 HR. Adrian beltre 48. none of them are even close to that now.

My idea is this:

• Wang Horne Melky and 2PTBNL for Johan Santana (given you can extend him.)
• Giambi + 15 million to LAA for prospects.
• Abreu + 8-10 Million for prospects.
• Mussina +4 million to NL for Prospects.
• Igawa to Padres for prospects.
• A bunch of those prospects to FLA for Miguel Cabrera (given you can get this boy a 10 year deal)
• Sign Rowand.
• Sign every reliever on the FA market for 1or 2 million dollars and let them all compete for jobs in ST.
• Convert Humberto Sanchez and Ross Ohlendorf to relievers (provided Ohlendorf doesn't land in Miami.)
• Give Philips the everyday 1B job, let Shelley play some RF and some 1B and some Dh but get him in there everyday-ish

Viable?

[BrandonA33]

I would be against the Sanatana trade a month ago, but seeing what a big difference a great shutdown Ace like a Sabathia/Beckett/Webb makes in a short series, then you get to throw them out there 2 times in a best of 7.... we are lacking a Sanatana type. Wang would be a great #2 in the post season, but this team would be loose going into a game 1 or 5 behind Johan

[Mark19]

The Expos have been gona long enough that those 32HR dont matter anymore. Abreu hit 30 HR that year. Moises Alou 39 HR. Adrian beltre 48. none of them are even close to that now.

My idea is this:

• Wang Horne Melky and 2PTBNL for Johan Santana.
• Giambi + 15 million to LAA for prospects.
• Abreu + 8-10 Million for prospects.
• Mussina +4 million to NL for Prospects.
• Igawa to Padres for prospects.
• A bunch of those prospects to FLA for Miguel Cabrera.
• Sign Rowand.
• Sign every reliever on the FA market for 1or 2 million dollars and let them all compete for jobs in ST.
• Convert Humberto Sanchez and Ross Ohlendorf to relievers (provided Ohlendorf doesn't land in Miami.)

Viable?

You are basically investing the entire future of this team in Santana and Cabrera. Honestly, I would try and gut it out with our current core and continue to make incremental changes rather than blow everything up. The best chance we have at improving our rotation is either by developing our own guys or stumbling across talented young arms who still haven't figured it out.

[TheInfallibleOne]

You are basically investing the entire future of this team in Santana and Cabrera. Honestly, I would try and gut it out with our current core and continue to make incremental changes rather than blow everything up. The best chance we have at improving our rotation is either by developing our own guys or stumbling across talented young arms who still haven't figured it out.

Current core of Cano Hughes Chamberlain and Kennedy remains. Wang Ohlendorf and Gardner would be the net loss of the Yankee farm (+ whatever prospects we get in selling Giambi Abreu and Mussina) and they are the ones that bring us Johan and Cabrera.

And we still keep Tabata and Brackman to boot!

[jughead]

Wang has a bad postseason and automatically there are rumors he will be traded, just like ARod last year. It would take Wang and atleast 2 of our better/best prospects to get Santana.

No it wouldn't. The Twins are unlikely to get a package around a guy as good as Wang in the first place, there is no way they're going to get two A+ prospects in addition to it. People overestimate the value Santana will fetch. If the Twins lose him to FA they get nothing but a few draft picks.

I can't think of any one player ever that was traded for the equivalent of an ace and two ML ready blue chip prospects. A-Rod, the best player in the game, was traded for Soriano (granted, his contract was an extenuating circumstance).

[Pinstripedbass]

It was in Peter Gammon's article on ESPN.com

Why would the Twins, who will be on Astroturf for another 3 years, want a sinker ball pitcher?

[Shaun4013]

Only if the price is right.

[wang+cano=future]

No it wouldn't. The Twins are unlikely to get a package around a guy as good as Wang in the first place, there is no way they're going to get two A+ prospects in addition to it. People overestimate the value Santana will fetch. If the Twins lose him to FA they get nothing but a few draft picks.

I can't think of any one player ever that was traded for the equivalent of an ace and two ML ready blue chip prospects. A-Rod, the best player in the game, was traded for Soriano (granted, his contract was an extenuating circumstance).

So you think Wang + guys like Ranser/Karstens/Wright/Clippard would get it done? The Twins would receive much better offers than that.

[nycdoc999]

It would have to be 2 impact players as well as another 1 or 2 minor leaguers for Santana. He's the best pitcher in the game. Has been for the last 4 years he's been a starter.

The Mets would probably offer Millege and Pelfrey to start.

The Sox would almost certainly offer Ellsbury/Crisp and Lester/Buchholz.

We'd have to give up something comparable. Wang/Cabrera/Horne at least starts the discussion. They'd probably want Hughes or Chamberlain - of course we'd say no. They might want to subsitute Cano for Cabrera. That would be ALOT to give up....

Cano/Wang/Horne?? Seems like a ton to give. Of course, Betemit could probably play 2b, but I don't think I do that deal. I'd do it for Cano, Horne, and Ohlendorf, but not Wang.

[jughead]

So you think Wang + guys like Ranser/Karstens/Wright/Clippard would get it done? The Twins would receive much better offers than that.

No, those guys are throw-ins. But it wouldn't take Wang + Hughes+ Joba, for example. That's way too much.

Wang + Melky + a Karstens/Wright/Clippard/etc. combo would be a pretty competitive package I think. What other team is offering an established young ace? Guys like Lester and Pelfrey are far from proven. Of course, he's not the ace that Santana is, but they will not and should not get equal value for him. If they want any more than that, look at other options.

[ppa79]

It would have to be 2 impact players as well as another 1 or 2 minor leaguers for Santana. He's the best pitcher in the game. Has been for the last 4 years he's been a starter.

The Mets would probably offer Millege and Pelfrey to start.

Weak offer. If they want Santana, they would have to include Reyes.

The Sox would almost certainly offer Ellsbury/Crisp and Lester/Buchholz.

.

Buchholz is the main guy here. He is comparable to Hughes/Chamberlain. Ellsbury is an good prospect, but not a stud.

[yep]

Part of the reason that Eye chart seems like such a refreshing change defensively is because the Yankees have used 1B as a sort of waystation for "second DH" in the past few years.

The problem with having a 1B whose primary strength is defense is that you are giving up a lineup spot for a position that is not that hard to defend. It doesn't require much of an arm, and rarely calls for explosive athleticism.

IOW, almost any everyday major-league fielder can deliver say B+/A- defense at 1B, so the best defensive 1B is often only a marginal improvement in run prevention compared to most other MLB fielders. If you are taking a significant hit in production then you are generally at a net loss compared with say plugging in a journeyman outfielder who has lost some arm strength and range but can still hit.

This is different from premium positions like catcher, shortstop, or CF where a great fielder can prevent a lot of runs, so a weaker hitter may still be a net positive if he can play lockdown defense.

If I were the Yankees, I would try to avoid any big or long-term commitment to a dedicated 1B unless he swings a really big bat. The Yankees have a few players who might be good 1B candidates in the next few years. If you're going to have a light-hitting defensive replacement/bench player, better to find one who can play middle infield.

My two cents, anyway.

cheers.

[yankees135]

Part of the reason that Eye chart seems like such a refreshing change defensively is because the Yankees have used 1B as a sort of waystation for "second DH" in the past few years.

The problem with having a 1B whose primary strength is defense is that you are giving up a lineup spot for a position that is not that hard to defend. It doesn't require much of an arm, and rarely calls for explosive athleticism.

IOW, almost any everyday major-league fielder can deliver say B+/A- defense at 1B, so the best defensive 1B is often only a marginal improvement in run prevention compared to most other MLB fielders. If you are taking a significant hit in production then you are generally at a net loss compared with say plugging in a journeyman outfielder who has lost some arm strength and range but can still hit.

This is different from premium positions like catcher, shortstop, or CF where a great fielder can prevent a lot of runs, so a weaker hitter may still be a net positive if he can play lockdown defense.

If I were the Yankees, I would try to avoid any big or long-term commitment to a dedicated 1B unless he swings a really big bat. The Yankees have a few players who might be good 1B candidates in the next few years. If you're going to have a light-hitting defensive replacement/bench player, better to find one who can play middle infield.

My two cents, anyway.

cheers.

I agree, but keeping Minkiewitz around for a 1 year deal (which I think he'd be willing to do---it isn't like he is a hot commodity) won't stop any of this.

You could then plan on starting Phillips/Duncan at first, but if any injuries occur, or they need a day off, you can put Minkiewitz in as a very competent backup/replacement.

[bronxburning]

I would like to see someone else get a shot. How about Betemit?

[yep]

I agree, but keeping Minkiewitz around for a 1 year deal (which I think he'd be willing to do---it isn't like he is a hot commodity) won't stop any of this...

Yeah, if it's a short, cheap contract that you can dump if you need the roster spot, then nothing wrong with keeping him. But if he's looking for a three-year deal I'd take a pass.

[ksison]

i appreciate minky's professionalism this season (especially the bug game). he's a very good ball player, but we have andy phillips, betemit, and duncan for cheap. not like the yanks cant afford minky... it just makes more sense businesswise to take the cheaper players who produce more offensively

[ebas]

No, those guys are throw-ins. But it wouldn't take Wang + Hughes+ Joba, for example. That's way too much.

Wang + Melky + a Karstens/Wright/Clippard/etc. combo would be a pretty competitive package I think. What other team is offering an established young ace? Guys like Lester and Pelfrey are far from proven. Of course, he's not the ace that Santana is, but they will not and should not get equal value for him. If they want any more than that, look at other options.

Wang is not an ace, which is probably the first thing the Twins will point out in negotiations. I think Wang + one of our top young pitchers + a B or C level prospect would get it done. Something like Wang + Kennedy + Clippard for Santana + throw in. I'm asuming that the Yanks will make Hughes and Chamberlain untouchable this off season. However, I agree with an earlier poster. Why would the Twins want Wang pitching on the Metrodome turf every 5 days? It would probably result in Wang have bad road and home splits. I think that the Twins turn down any offer of Wang outright. They'll say call back when you want to start with Hughes or Chamberlain as part 1 of your offer.

I think that this was just a clever pipe dream by Gammons. It makes him look like he has inside knowledge and starts people talking. There's nothing else to it.

[rodg12]

Why would the Twins, who will be on Astroturf for another 3 years, want a sinker ball pitcher?

I don't think the FieldTurf stuff they play on now is much faster than an actual infield, especially if said infield is cut low. More bouncy, yeah, but not necessarily faster. That is just my personal opinion of it though having fielded grounders on the Metrodome turf and on my college's football field turf.

[Spiker101]

and is even declining defensively.

You must have better eyes than I because I sure didn't see any decline defensively. At the right price he seems like an ideal kind of role player to have around. For the first time in about a thousand years the Yanks had an effective bench. I don't want to revert to the bad old days.

[XitoCraN]

I like Minky's D and bat better than Phillips's. But he's not better by a wide margin. Plus AP can play all over the INF. Maybe offer Doug a minor league deal and the two can duke it out in Spring Training.

Really to me the 1B job comes down to Giambi (if he's not moved) for 30-40 games. Shelley vs. lefties. And Betemit the rest of the time. With AP/Doug getting the occasional start and coming in late for D.

[jughead]

Wang is not an ace, which is probably the first thing the Twins will point out in negotiations. I think Wang + one of our top young pitchers + a B or C level prospect would get it done. Something like Wang + Kennedy + Clippard for Santana + throw in. I'm asuming that the Yanks will make Hughes and Chamberlain untouchable this off season. However, I agree with an earlier poster. Why would the Twins want Wang pitching on the Metrodome turf every 5 days? It would probably result in Wang have bad road and home splits. I think that the Twins turn down any offer of Wang outright. They'll say call back when you want to start with Hughes or Chamberlain as part 1 of your offer.

I think that this was just a clever pipe dream by Gammons. It makes him look like he has inside knowledge and starts people talking. There's nothing else to it.

http://baseballprospectus.com/statis...php?cid=204030

Wang is 20th overall in VORP (higher than any Twins pitcher than Santana). There are 30 teams in baseball. Wang is most definitely an ace. 3.75 lifetime ERA in the AL East. I won't go into wins since a little of people (including myself) don't like them, but he's no slouch in that department. Not only that, he's a workhorse, ranking among the top in IP/G. And he's only 27. Why do you not consider him one? Because he doesn't K people? Or because of 2 bad post-season starts?

[Pinstripedbass]

I don't think the FieldTurf stuff they play on now is much faster than an actual infield, especially if said infield is cut low. More bouncy, yeah, but not necessarily faster. That is just my personal opinion of it though having fielded grounders on the Metrodome turf and on my college's football field turf.

Good input. Thanks.

[JSG]

i think most appreciate what dougie M brought to the team this year, and also that he isn't a viable everyday guy. there is some reduncancy w phillips, tho andy should get the nod for his hitting. 1B maybe also crowded if WB can play there and maybe even duncan a few games. it would be nice to have him there for extra D but it depends on how many roster spots we have. hey, a rod may demand both torre AND dougie M return .......... and cashman would do it .... !!! ....

obviously if the new carlos pena comes along we should scoop him up, but otherwise 1B is likely the very least of our rebuilding concerns next year.

PS anyone notice we really missed andy phillips in the playoffs this year ......... ??? ........

[yankees135]

Yeah, if it's a short, cheap contract that you can dump if you need the roster spot, then nothing wrong with keeping him. But if he's looking for a three-year deal I'd take a pass.

I can't imagine he is looking for a 3 year deal. Would any team really be interested in giving a below average starter or above average bench player who isn't getting any younger either a 3 year deal?

But, we agree....since I wouldn't be giving him a 3 year deal either

[Spiker101]

andy should get the nod for his hitting. ........

Why, pray tell, should Phillips get the nod for his hitting when he has a career 79 OPS+? He's a horrifically bad hitter. Eyechart is no great shakes with the stick but he's a helluva a lot better than that.
For a year, I think the team can live with Duncan-Betemit-Mientkiewicz as the infield bench, provided the team doesn't need 12 pitchers.

[TMS]

How about signing Carlos Pena for 1B?

[In Mo I Trust]

How about signing Carlos Pena for 1B?

He is still controlled by Tampa.