Steinbrenner puts Torre On Notice

[lolo]

How smart is it to criticize an ump like that when said ump will be working today's game?

[cyhughes22]

How smart is it to criticize an ump like that when said ump will be working today's game?

Froeming is a professional. He probably didn't do right by us in terms of how he handled the bugs but he's a professional. He's not going to punish the Yankees for what George said.

[RWGreen]

Something in my gut tells me that Torre is one of the last threads connecting the team to its years of dominance in the late 90s. The dominance wasn't necessarily built on having the best talent, or a gigantic payroll, but on having something that translated to wins. Call it chemistry, call it swagger, call it "being winners," whatever. My gut also tells me that one of these years, enough of those threads will be broken, and the whole thing will collapse. A lot of people here were sure that it had already collapsed for a large portion of this season. Will Torre's firing be the final chapter in this era of Yankee success? I guess there's a good chance we'll find out...

[ppa79]

Steinbrenner needs to shut the f**k up.

If Torre was managing then Steinbrenner wouldn't need to say anything.

[Rocketbooster]

Something in my gut tells me that Torre is one of the last threads connecting the team to its years of dominance in the late 90s. The dominance wasn't necessarily built on having the best talent, or a gigantic payroll, but on having something that translated to wins. Call it chemistry, call it swagger, call it "being winners," whatever. My gut also tells me that one of these years, enough of those threads will be broken, and the whole thing will collapse. A lot of people here were sure that it had already collapsed for a large portion of this season. Will Torre's firing be the final chapter in this era of Yankee success? I guess there's a good chance we'll find out...

When you have Hughes, Joba and Kennedy as part of your staff, with Wang and hopefully Andy, your future looks pretty bright. That's not even mentioning other highly touted prospects still on the farm. It might be the final chapter for Joe, but not for the Yankees.

[YANKEE MAGIC]

Ok off topic a little but who thinks George knows (or knows who he wants to ) replace Torre if they lose in this round (btw they are not gonna lose!)..

[Retire21]

Wow. Just wow. I went to bed and woke up this morning thinking about nothing but Game 3 and then I read this before this morning's breakfast. I'm kind of torn here on what to think about all of this.

On one hand, I am angry and disappointed like all of you, but mostly just disappointed in how the series has turned out. And I agree with those of you who feel the pressure should be applied- you like your manager so much? Then play for him. 3-12 and three 1st round exits does not warrant a re-hire.

Nevertheless, there's a way of handling this stuff in the proper manner, especially when you're dealing with a man like Joe Torre who has been so good for the Yankees over the course of 12 years. If he's going to be let go, it should be delicately and with some respect. You kick the guy out and issue public ultimatums and you're setting up a very messy divorce here that begins to look like Yogi in the 1980s, not that I think Joe would ever stay away from the Yankees like Yogi did, but still.

I love the fire from George. I do. But you know what? The pressure that he is trying to apply is already there. He's just adding to it. And let's face it, when have the 2004-2007 Yankees ever done well when the pressure has been amped up?

And whoever said he hopes we lose so we can get rid of Joe is just not pulling for the Yankees. That's ridiculous. I hope we win the whole ball of wax so Joe can retire and go out on top rather than the shameful treatment he seems destined to get. I've been down on Joe. We all have. But he deserves better than this. The comments from Mr. Steinbrenner- while I love the fire - are ill-timed and ill-placed.

[ppa79]

Ok off topic a little but who thinks George knows (or knows who he wants to ) replace Torre if they lose in this round (btw they are not gonna lose!)..

Either Girardi or Mattingly.

[ppa79]

Wow. Just wow. I went to bed and woke up this morning thinking about nothing but Game 3 and then I read this before this morning's breakfast. I'm kind of torn here on what to think about all of this.

On one hand, I am angry and disappointed like all of you, but mostly just disappointed in how the series has turned out. And I agree with those of you who feel the pressure should be applied- you like your manager so much? Then play for him. 3-12 and three 1st round exits does not warrant a re-hire.

Nevertheless, there's a way of handling this stuff in the proper manner, especially when you're dealing with a man like Joe Torre who has been so good for the Yankees over the course of 12 years. If he's going to be let go, it should be delicately and with some respect. You kick the guy out and issue public ultimatums and you're setting up a very messy divorce here that begins to look like Yogi in the 1980s, not that I think Joe would ever stay away from the Yankees like Yogi did, but still.

I love the fire from George. I do. But you know what? The pressure that he is trying to apply is already there. He's just adding to it. And let's face it, when have the 2004-2007 Yankees ever done well when the pressure has been amped up?

And whoever said he hopes we lose so we can get rid of Joe is just not pulling for the Yankees. That's ridiculous. I hope we win the whole ball of wax so Joe can retire and go out on top rather than the shameful treatment he seems destined to get. I've been down on Joe. We all have. But he deserves better than this. The comments from Mr. Steinbrenner- while I love the fire - are ill-timed and ill-placed.

The difference was that Yogi was fired, Torre's contract won't be renewed.

[BBombers85]

This was pretty much a given after last year's mess. Torre needs to make it to the World Series to have a shot at getting a new contract. That being said, a loss tonight (puhleaaaaaaase, we're not losing dont worry) could have a ripple effect:

Torre gone --> A-rod Gone

Posada and Mo said they want to test the market, but I think 99.9% (not a Roger Clemens 99.9%) they'll be back.

[I Heart Jeter]

I would have preffered a more Patten-esque missive

[Retire21]

The difference was that Yogi was fired, Torre's contract won't be renewed.

Yes, but the treatment/handling of a Yankee legend was the same.

[Retire21]

The best thing that could happen tonight for everyone is we score some runs early, Roger settles in, and we end up blowing them out. We need to open up a can tonight to get some of the swagger back.

While a win is obviously what we need, I think we also need a certain type of win that relaxes the players a bit, brings a few smiles, and perhaps settles everyone for a win in Game 4. A tight game could be nerve-wracking, with everything that is on the line.

[ppa79]

Yes, but the treatment/handling of a Yankee legend was the same.

No it isn't.

Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.

Berra agreed to stay in the job for 1985 after receiving assurances that he would not be fired, but the impatient Steinbrenner did fire Berra after the 16th game of the season. Instead of firing him personally, Steinbrenner dispatched Clyde King to deliver the news for him ^[1]. This caused a rift between the two men that would not be mended for almost 15 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra

If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago. Steinbrenner allowed Torre to finish out the season and contract.

[TheBamTino24]

No it isn't.

Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra

If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago.

2004 for sure.

[Retire21]

No it isn't.

Berra was fired 3 weeks into a season.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi_Berra

If this was the old Steinbrenner Torre would have been fired a long time ago. Steinbrenner allowed Torre to finish out the season and contract.

In my opinion, both men were disrespected publicly where that didn't need to happen. We can agree to disagree- I understand the situations were different and I agree the old Steinbrenner would have fired Torre a long time ago, but the bottom line is that they were both Yankee legends and they are/were both treated poorly in what could be the day Joe is shown the door.

[Jeter Kid]

I'm glad he came out and said this, it's time to make a change in management if they cannot get past this first round. Hopefully it will wake some people up.

[ppa79]

In my opinion, both men were disrespected publicly where that didn't need to happen. We can agree to disagree- I understand the situations were different and I agree the old Steinbrenner would have fired Torre a long time ago, but the bottom line is that they were both Yankee legends and they are/were both treated poorly in what could be the day Joe is shown the door.

How has Joe been treated poorly? If you read the article, Steinbrenner has said Torre has been good for us, but he is the highest paid manager in the league. And if you are the highest paid manager in the league for the past couple of years you need to start showing some results or else. How is that disrepectful? Disrepectful would be insulting Torre and firing him during the season.

[stephsamps]

This just makes me sad... in so many ways.

[teknetic]

Seeing how they've laid dead he has every right to get pissed. Torre made a huge gaff in not going out and at least talking with the umps when the bugs covered Joba, if not to delay the game, but to give Joba a breather.

[TheTinoMobile]

This is nothing but a show from Steinbrenner and his people. Deep down I feel Joe Torre will retire after this season anyway...and this just puts Steinbrenner in a position to make it look like he forced Joe out and really does still have control of operations, despite his health concerns.

[NYYDragoon]

Personally, I think this is one of the most demoralizing things George could do at the moment. The team needs to focus on winning, not whether or not beloved Torre will have a job in two days. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...now is not the time.

[ppa79]

Personally, I think this is one of the most demoralizing things George could do at the moment. The team needs to focus on winning, not whether or not beloved Torre will have a job in two days. It doesn't matter if it's true or not...now is not the time.

I like your avatar. Kain rocks.

[nnysiny]

at least this year would have a silver lining, unlike the past 6 years

[26 and counting]

Yup, I expect a HUGE day from Jeter, A-Rod, Posada, Clemens, and Mo.

If all the guys that you mention have huge days, we won't even have to use Mo, because we'll be up about 12-1 in the 9th. Save Mo for tomorrow, have him pitch three innings.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Either you step up, deliver, and win in order to advance or you go home with your dream shattered.

As for the Boss's ultimatium, aint 2007 the last year in Joe Torre's contract?

[NYYDragoon]

And also, I'm pretty sure Bruce Froemming won't be umping anymore because he's retiring, not because George says so.

I like your avatar. Kain rocks.

Haha. Thanks.

[Krall]

I'm glad he came out and said this, it's time to make a change in management if they cannot get past this first round. Hopefully it will wake some people up.

It's a great thing to say if you want to pack in the rest of '07! So you're down 0-2 and one more loss ends your season, there's no pressure right?

Now Mr Steinbrenner has to open his big trap and put all the guys in the dugout on notice, many of whom adore Torre that if you guys lose no matter what the circumstances, be it bugs, bad ump calls or fan interference Joe gets fired.

What a great motivation tool, NOT! I think Mr Steinbrenner has been watching to much of the Bronx is Burning, this isn't the Martin era anymore....

You know what it's rhetoric like this that makes looks forward to the day he's no longer the owner. I just hope the current core of players and management survives to fight another day.

[yankeebot]

I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.

[mrs.roy]

You are absolutely correct!

[yankeeman61]

In the timeless game of baseball everything is about timing. I have a huge problem with the Boss' timing with this. This is not football (George's background and mentality) where you fire up the team and you go out and get physical which can make a difference. IMO George has never understood this about baseball. I believe this will have a reverse effect where everyone tightens up and tries too hard to make something happen. I understand the emotion of being on the brink of elimination but this will only serve to be a distraction and will take prescedence over the game itself, which is all the Yankees should be concentrating on. George has every right to change managers but good grief if you want the team to pull this out (George) then quit putting yourself in the spotlight by casting a dark cloud over Torre and mostly the team who you supposedly want to win! This serves as no other purpose but to vent your own frustration. Congrats, George I hope you feel better. Let's see how you feel if this team tanks the game tonight. I hope they can overcome you.

[ColombiaYanksFan]

Really? I thought Torre would get a raise from Steinbrenner if the Yankees lose this series.

[OldYankeeFan]

After the year Joe has had (MOTY imo) George must be putting A LOT of the blame for an 0-2 start on Torre. And I can't blame him. Joe absolutely froze in two critical situations. And he is paid alot of money NOT to do that in close playoff games.

First he did nothing to try and have the game stopped until the bugs subsided when he should have petitioned the umps and then protested the game if they did not comply. As (SI) Tom Verducci said in his atrticle...

" ...Plenty of major league games with far less on the line have been stopped due to bug infestations. I can't believe both the Yankees and Indians didn't argue for a stoppage of play Friday night, but especially New York, when it was obvious that reliever Joba Chamberlain was severely compromised by those conditions. It was no different than playing a game in a deluge."

The second frozen situation came shortly thereafter.when Joe and Guidry had the biggest brain cramp i have seen in a LONG time.

As soon as they saw that Joba was struggling (and I am one who does think it was the bugs that initially got to him) Mo should have been in there. If not after he walked the first batter on 4 pitches, certainly after the first wild pitch. And if not then, then most certainly after the sacrifice bunt putting a man on third (with him already having thrown a wild pitch). And if not then, then positively, absolutely, thank God the line drive was hit right to our draw in 1st baseman for out #2 after Joba missed down the middle with a pitch that was HAMMERED. There is just no possible reason I can come up with for leaving him in there. None. It would have been a common 4 out save for Mo who ALL year was brought in in anything CLOSE to that situation. But in the playoffs, in the most important game of the season Joe Froze and Guidry and Mattingly apparently let him.

Like I said I can't blame george for putting the 0-2 start on Torre and I can understand that he is telling the players to SAVE their manager, but Joe has done too much over the years and during the regular season this year to go out with a Yogi type send off.

[NYYDragoon]

I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.

I disagree. Not only are they on the verge of being eliminated from the first round for the third year in a row, but now the manager of a golden area could be booted, too. Now more's on the line than should be necessary. No one's going to just ignore that.

While he's at it, George should also rule on Alex, Jorge, and Mo's futures on the team.

[jimmyquickpitch]

I don't post, just like to follow along, but I have to say something about this.

It's a disgrace. I'm ashamed of our owner for doing this. There isn't a single positive that can come out of this.

[TheBamTino24]

After the year Joe has had (MOTY imo) George must be putting A LOT of the blame for an 0-2 start on Torre.

In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.

Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.

I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.

[cyhughes22]

This was pretty much a given after last year's mess. Torre needs to make it to the World Series to have a shot at getting a new contract. That being said, a loss tonight (puhleaaaaaaase, we're not losing dont worry) could have a ripple effect:

Torre gone --> A-rod Gone

Posada and Mo said they want to test the market, but I think 99.9% (not a Roger Clemens 99.9%) they'll be back.

Umm no. A-Rod and Torres futures are probably the 2 most independant variables of one another in this whole mess. A-Rod's decision will in no way be affected by Joe Torre leaving, no way.

[Yankees Pride]

As a huge Torre supporter, I still have to say that if Joe can't get through this first round I don't think Steinbrenner has a choice. You have to put new blood in there.

[CalYankeeFan]

I would have preffered a more Patten-esque missive

When the going gets tough the tough get going.

[JfromJersey]

In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.

Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.

I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.

The Yankees have made the post season every year Torre has managed. Isn't it tempting fate to change managers now? It's true the post season record has been bad lately, but don't you have to get there first? We've had 1 manager for 12 years now. Before that, a Yankee manager's life expectancy was maybe 2 years. If the new manager fails to get the team into the playoffs next year, I could see us going through the same game of managerial musical chairs for another decade.

[primetime714]

I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.

[Yankees Pride]

The Yankees have made the post season every year Torre has managed. Isn't it tempting fate to change managers now? It's true the post season record has been bad lately, but don't you have to get there first? We've had 1 manager for 12 years now. Before that, a Yankee manager's life expectancy was maybe 2 years. If the new manager fails to get the team into the playoffs next year, I could see us going through the same game of managerial musical chairs for another decade.

I think his team hasn't performed the way they should have and he's been dealt some bad luck (along with a few questionable moves) but it's part of the politics of the game. I think you need to go with a new manager if they lose. (WHICH THEY WON"T!!)

[JSG]

I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.

I really like it too. It states what is obvious but also gives a jolt of reality and urgency to the situation. and of course it's 100% his right to say what's on his mind. he's pretty much kept his mouth shut this year since "cashman was on a big hook", and the team turned it around then -- so let's hope they can do so again for themselves and for joe.

[OldYankeeFan]

In situations like these, it's about more than 2 games.

Torre is 3-12 in his past 15 playoff games. Think about that with an owner who has expectations of winning World Championships. In this 15 game stretch Steinbrenner as witnessed the worst collapse in posteason history in 2004, followed by consecutive 1st round eliminations in 2005 and 2006.

I don't like that it has become a story today. But I cannot fault Steinbrenner's logic whatsoever. Right or wrong, he feels that a $200M payroll and the resources of NYY should put us into the postseason every year. And as the owner and signer of the checks, that's his right.

I whole heartedly agree with this and think it was the last game that was the final straw. I don't blame George for anything he said but at this same time if Joe is gone I would just like to see him go with some dignity.

[Hobie]

I am kind of attached to Torre since he's been leading the Yankees during the recent golden years and it's tought to see anyone manage the team...

BUT then I think about the insane number of times where I've yelled at the tv/radio "WHAT THE ................ IS TORRE DOING?!?" it makes me think that maybe he isn't the best manager for the job.

After 2004 collapse, and first round exits 05 and 06...

this is the same team that beat the indians 6 straight times this season...so it's not like Torre doesn't have the tools to do it. The guy who outpitched Carmona in the regular season was regulated to mop up duty after the game was blown by a pitcher in his 3rd or so ML appearance.

[PoughVirginiaYankee]

Well, at least he didn't mince words there. He really laid it out there - no ambiguity about it, unlike what you would expect him to say judging by the last few years. If we lose, Joe's gone.

[Casey37]

"I think we'll re-sign him," Steinbrenner said of Rodriguez. "I think he's going to have a good run the rest of the [postseason]. I think he realizes New York is the place to be, the place to play. A lot of this [postseason] is laying on his shoulders, you know, but I think he's up to it."

This part of the article I found most encouraging. I hope George does everything within his power to make this happen.

[Stashed_in_the_South]

This part of the article I found most encouraging. I hope George does everything within his power to make this happen.

I am absolutely shocked that The Boss had the wherewithal to make these statements; I thought that those days were long gone.

Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!

[RhodeyYankee2638]

Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!

It would be nice if we could achieve the same results

[TheJobaRules]

Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?

There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.

Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.