Steinbrenner puts Torre On Notice

[yankeebot]

I disagree. Not only are they on the verge of being eliminated from the first round for the third year in a row, but now the manager of a golden area could be booted, too. Now more's on the line than should be necessary. No one's going to just ignore that.

While he's at it, George should also rule on Alex, Jorge, and Mo's futures on the team.

I think more highly of the players than that. They're smart enough to know Joe's situation without George having to spell it out and they're professional enough to go about their business without the words of a the current version of Mr Stainbrenner affecting their play.

The player contract stuff is just silliness so I won't bother to address that.

[yankeebot]

Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?

There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.

Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.

That's been addressed plenty in multiple threads. Personally, I don't think it's a real factor.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

Well not that I'm against a new manager, but hasn't anybody thought about the fact that if he is gone, so are Mo, Posada, and Andy Pettitte?

There has already been rumors that it would make Mo and Jorge's decisions to leave easier if Torre isn't the manager, and Pettitte is on record as saying that it will be a factor into whether he picks up the option or retires.

Like I said, I'm not against a new manager, but the last thing I want to see is a good portion of the heart and soul of this team disappear.

Well, Andy Pettitte left once, and Torre was still there, so that really doesn't matter. And I don't really see Mo or Posada in any other jersey, especially if Girardi or Mattingly is the manager

[yankeegeek]

Love what George said. It was perfect. About time we had Gereral George back in charge.

[OldYankeeFan]

I really like Steinbrenner coming out and laying down the law. The past couple years he has been too quiet. During the championship years many of thought Steinnbrenner's bickering was a distraction but the team always seemed to respond to his ultimatums. Torre is a players manager and you know a lot of guys are going to come out and really step up their play to help him keep his job. If not well then its time for Torre to go.

It's funny because when George was in his "prime" he did this all the time and when they won there was alway a debate as too whether is was due to George's motivation. George has once again come to life (and that is good to see) creating a battle cry for the loyal troops.

When we win, the current players (just like the ones in 77-78) will most likely deny it had any effect on them. I'm not so sure but would love to have that debate again.

[mrs.roy]

The Yankees are way, way, way, way, more professional than some are letting them on to be/giving them credit for.
They all know who the Boss is.
They all know what he is capable of saying and doing.
What he says to the "press" does not dictate how they perform on the field.
They do, and the opposing team does.
Everyman on that team will tell you that.

Mr. Torre will tell you it is a non-issue. Play ball.

[Hobie]

I hope cashman stays

[Evil Empire]

Mr. Torre will tell you it is a non-issue.

It probably isn't to him anyway. He'll have no problem finding a managerial job should he get fired or not come back.

[Fabien Brandy]

Torre is the one who batted ARod 8th and is father/son with Jeter, so I doubt ARod would be too broken hearted about a new guy taking over.

And I do think it is a significant distinction that Torre would not be 'fired'. To me getting fired means you did a poor job. Getting a new contract means you did a good job. Serving out your contract and not being renewed is somewhere in between, which I think is a fair assessment.

[CallOfTheCrow]

I can deal with that as long as Cashman stays....& if not then someone that has the same long term plans.

[bomber999]

Either Girardi or Mattingly.

Mattingly, IMHO, would be an unmitigated disaster. Not proven at all, and certainly not enough experience to run the New York Yankees. Plus, if the team were not successful under his management, it would make for a very messy situation- a beloved NYY would need to be fired, and this would be ugly and could lead to major rifts. Or Mattingly's legacy would delay his termination to the detriment of the team.

Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.

I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).

[metalyank]

That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.

[Davios]

I can deal with that as long as Cashman stays....& if not then someone that has the same long term plans.

I can't help but think that if Torre is out, then Cashman may be as well. The most logical replacement for Brian would be Damon Oppenheimer. They have already talked about Damon taking over when Brian wasn't sure he wanted to renew, and was pretty close to signing on as Philadelphia's new GM. Damon has certainly done a very admireable job with the draft since he has taken control of it, but I still sincerely hope Cashman doesn't go anywhere.

As far as Torre is concerned, I am pretty much torn. I realize that Torre leaving might very well mean that some part of Mo, Posada, and Andy will consider not returning. At the same time, you can't excuse some of the things he has allowed under his watch. He completely alienated a crucial part of this team last season in Alex, has consistently played favorites at the cost of the teams overall performance (see Bernie Williams and Hideki Matsui), has shown no ability to manage the pen, and to top it off allowed that bug fiasco to go down the way it did in Cleveland.

[Fabien Brandy]

The conventional wisdom is that 10 years is the longest one should stay at a job and I think Torre has settled into a comfort zone where he no longer has to prove himself. I hope the Yankees can avoid a backlash but a new vision is needed and I sense Brian Cashman feels the same way, given the infusion of youth players both now and on the way.

[ALR83]

It bothers me to see Joe take the heat in the media because this team isn't hitting. Not his fault. Not saying he's done everything perfectly, but he can't force them to hit the ball. I hate when George remembers his power lol, it scares me what he can do.

Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.

I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).

Definitely agree.

[Jasbro]

How has Joe been treated poorly? If you read the article, Steinbrenner has said Torre has been good for us, but he is the highest paid manager in the league. And if you are the highest paid manager in the league for the past couple of years you need to start showing some results or else. How is that disrepectful? Disrepectful would be insulting Torre and firing him during the season.

As gratifying as it may be for some fans to hear the general in Steinbrenner re-awaken, giving your team and your manager a public ultimatum on the eve of an elimination game is certainly ill-timed, disrespectful and a bit irresponsible, in my opinion.

For the boss, this positions HIM as the reason the team won if they win, and it places all the blame on Torre if they don't. Regardless of what happens in this series, most of this team considers Joe the heart and soul of the team, and threats against him when the team's back is against the wall is a slap in the face to the most effective Yankees manager since Casey Stengel.

The more I think about it, the more shameful it is.

[frostdude1]

nomaas

[CallOfTheCrow]

I can't help but think that if Torre is out, then Cashman may be as well. The most logical replacement for Brian would be Damon Oppenheimer. They have already talked about Damon taking over when Brian wasn't sure he wanted to renew, and was pretty close to signing on as Philadelphia's new GM. Damon has certainly done a very admireable job with the draft since he has taken control of it, but I still sincerely hope Cashman doesn't go anywhere.

As far as Torre is concerned, I am pretty much torn. I realize that Torre leaving might very well mean that some part of Mo, Posada, and Andy will consider not returning. At the same time, you can't excuse some of the things he has allowed under his watch. He completely alienated a crucial part of this team last season in Alex, has consistently played favorites at the cost of the teams overall performance (see Bernie Williams), has shown no ability to manage the pen, and to top it off allowed that bug fiasco to go down the way it did in Cleveland.

Yeah that's definitely possible as well, I can see Cash Money getting the axe as well but let's hope not. I like Cashman as the GM & in charge of baseball operations with Openheimer in charge of the draft & scouting.

I want to win as much as the next guy but there has to be somebody in that front office besides Cashman that tells Steinbrenner about what an amazing job Cashman & Oppenheimer have done. I really don't want to see our farm disintegrate for a quick fix every year because George wants to win at all costs every year.

[wardsp]

I guess Steinbrenner agrees with what a lot of fans have been saying here. Sure, good pitching shuts down offenses, but every year? We have some sort of major malfunction if we can't get out of the first round.

That malfunction is a team effort and it starts with Torre. And like many have said, if the players like him so much...go win a game, otherwise your buddy gets fired. It will be doubly crushing to them now, knowing they are directly responsible for him being fired if they lose. And for too many years now there has been no consequence for their horrid play in the post-season.

If all of us don't do our job, we get fired.

Welcome to reality.

[Jasbro]

That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.

Exactly. Just a terribly timed statement.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

That's right George, throw an extra pound on the guys' backs while they're hanging by their nails on a precipice.

Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.

[ppa79]

As gratifying as it may be for some fans to hear the general in Steinbrenner re-awaken, giving your team and your manager a public ultimatum on the eve of an elimination game is certainly ill-timed, disrespectful and a bit irresponsible, in my opinion.
For the boss, this positions HIM as the reason the team won if they win, and it places all the blame on Torre if they don't. Regardless of what happens in this series, most of this team considers Joe the heart and soul of the team, and threats against him when the team's back is against the wall is a slap in the face to the most effective Yankees manager since Casey Stengel.

The more I think about it, the more shameful it is

Someone needed to tell Torre to start managing and instead of relying on the cruise control button.

Well thats your opinion, Steinbrenner is paying Torre a lot of money and isn't getting any results. Steinbrenner hasn't said anything disrespectful. All he is saying is that this is the year that if you don't deliver results, you won't be here next year.

[wardsp]

Exactly. Just a terribly timed statement.

Last year he said nothing and we lost.

Oh and the year before.

Don't you think he has the right to try something different?


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over that doesn't work.

[Rocketman]

I am totally thrilled. This is the best news I've heard all day.

[TheYankee]

Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.

So, when things aren't going right, throw caution to the wind? Just because his "silence" hasn't worked doesn't mean he must flip out... George is George. What he does is his own business... but there's no way that his comments "help" the team.

[TheYankee]

Last year he said nothing and we lost.

Oh and the year before.

Don't you think he has the right to try something different?


The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over that doesn't work.

And to believe that George's comments help the team are simply silly to me. They are trivial comments... if anything, they may hurt, but I'd dare say they don't do a damn thing.

[ppa79]

So, when things aren't going right, throw caution to the wind? Just because his "silence" hasn't worked doesn't mean he must flip out... George is George. What he does is his own business... but there's no way that his comments "help" the team.

Last time I checked George is the one paying the bills. He is the one who made Torre the highest paid manager in the league and isn't getting any results for the past couple of years. I think George has a right to say if you don't give me results, I going to make some changes.

[TheYankee]

Last time I checked George is the one paying the bills. He is the one who made Torre the highest paid manager in the league and isn't getting any results for the past couple of years. I think George has a right to say if you don't give me results, I going to make some changes.

Read my post again... "George is George. What he does is his own business." Where the hell are you getting the notion that I don't he has a right to say whatever he wants?

What I'm saying is that to believe his comments actually have some tangible effect on the way the team plays is simply silly.

[JDPNYY]

Graig and Thurm and Willie and Reggie and Chris and Lou and Mickey and Cat and Sparky and Goose and Roy and Gator and Ed and Dick and those guys would take those words and go out there and win three in a row.

Let's hope Derek and Roger and Alex and Doug and Jason and Johnny and Robinson and Bobby and Melky and those guys do as well.

[Byron]

At least 4 years too late imo.

Torre is a wonderful person, a great player's coach, and, I would even argue, an outstanding regular season manager... But his flaws are magnified in a short series. He simply does NOT put this team into the best position to win games on a day to day, game to game, sort of basis.

I can say with relative confidence that we have at least 1 more WS ring by now if another manager was calling the shots the last 5 post seasons. However, the catch 22 of the situation is, can I say we even make the playoffs this year without him? Dunno.

Regardless, it is time for the team to find out how its talent will do with a better baseball strategist at the helm, someone who can truly optimize the available talent and put it in the best position to win every single day.

[CallOfTheCrow]

Read my post again... "George is George. What he does is his own business." Where the hell are you getting the notion that I don't he has a right to say whatever he wants?

What I'm saying is that to believe his comments actually have some tangible effect on the way the team plays is simply silly.

Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."

[Davios]

At least 4 years too late imo.

Torre is a wonderful person, a great player's coach, and, I would even argue, an outstanding regular season manager... But his flaws are magnified in a short series. He simply does NOT put this team into the best position to win games on a day to day, game to game, sort of basis.

I can say with relative confidence that we have at least 1 more WS ring by now if another manager was calling the shots the last 5 post seasons. However, the catch 22 of the situation is, can I say we even make the playoffs this year without him? Dunno.

Regardless, it is time for the team to find out how it's talent will do with a better baseball strategist at the helm, someone who can truly optimize the available talent and put it in the best position to win every single day.

If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....

[TheYankee]

Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."

Exactly... I don't think these guys are going to take their cues to start playing from George Steinbrenner... generally, a World Series title is motivation enough.

[iWant27]

I think The Boss did the right thing . He is not spending all this money to just get into the playoffs but atleast to get to the world series .
I know its very hard to make the playoffs year in year out , but it seems like past few years Yankees ( for whatever reason ) dig themselves a big hole in april and may and then play GREAT baseball last 3-4 months and get into playoffs . May be they just get tired or something happens , in playoffs they just kind of fizzle out .
Cashman and Torre get a lots of credit for combacks in last 3 months every year .
But how about , why in the first place they play so bad in first 2 months .
This season Cashman started the season with SPers in Igawa , Pavano , Karstens , Rasner etc . The offence was pretty good in april but due to lack of SP , bullpen got worn out and May was terrible .
I think the investment The Boss is making in this team , I wont be surprised he lets go Torre and whoever wanna tag along with him .

[yankeeman61]

I am absolutely shocked that The Boss had the wherewithal to make these statements; I thought that those days were long gone.

Wow! It's like 1977, 1978 again!

Except that team was a very mentally tough team with a 25-3 pitcher, the toughest SOB in the league catching him and Mr. October leading the way along with a manager with unpredictable behavior. They were used to the daily tirades so the post season was nothing compared to that pressure. This team isn't THAT team. George is having flashbacks but that won't help this team win games. Maybe they should turn Son of Sam loose and have another blackout so we can relive the whole era.

[iWant27]

I don't think there is a single player on the team that will be affected by this in even the slightest way.

May be they should be . Its like a employee doesnt get affected when employer calls him out and wants better results .
I dont know what you mean by your statement . Do you mean they dont respect George . Do you mean they think its just a old guy bambling about .

[jjm33]

I think the quick reaction is to think that Stein did this as a shot at Torre, but he may have just been trying to give notice to all of us attending tonight that if we want to give Joe a proper send off, then we may have to do it over the next 2 games...I would love to have a "Paul O-Neal" chant over the last few innings...Joe has earned it...

[TheYankee]

May be they should be . Its like a employee doesnt get affected when employer calls him out and wants better results .
I dont know what you mean by your statement . Do you mean they dont respect George . Do you mean they think its just a old guy bambling about .

He meant exactly what he said with his statement... do you really think the Yankees have been waiting for George to tell them to play? You don't think a World Series title was motivation enough? That's pretty naive, don't you think?

[metalyank]

Yeah, being cool and calm has gotten us real far.

Of course, getting to the postseason 13 consecutive years is a birthright, not a product of hard work.

[Byron]

If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....

My fingers are crossed.

[R.V.47]

Mattingly, IMHO, would be an unmitigated disaster. Not proven at all, and certainly not enough experience to run the New York Yankees. Plus, if the team were not successful under his management, it would make for a very messy situation- a beloved NYY would need to be fired, and this would be ugly and could lead to major rifts. Or Mattingly's legacy would delay his termination to the detriment of the team.

Girardi, if we had to change managers, would be a much better choice.

I, for one, do not wish to see Joe go. I think that people had better be careful what they wish for, because I think that people are banking on the fact that the next manager, whomever he may be, will do a better job than Joe and guarantee us yearly entry into the WS. Joe makes some frustrating decisions, but there is no manager who doesn't. He has gotten us into the playoffs 12 years in a row. He has won 4 WS, 6 pennants total. The players either like or love him (except for Sheffield and Lofton, who are morons). Obviously, he knows how to guide a team to glory. This particular team doesn't seem to be able to handle the spotlight shining brightest and goes into hibernation. A new manager will not necessarily change that, and may make it worse (i.e. miss the playoffs altogether).

Agreed, Mattingly is apparently more laid back then Torre if thats possible. Girardi has experience, hes a former catcher which is always good and hes gort some fire. Im not saying the yankees need like a Lou Pinella type crazy guy but Girardi is smart enough to know when to be calm and also when to lay some discipline down. With the influx of young pitching we have coming out of our system very similar to what they had in Florida this seems like a no brainer to me.

[jnewmark]

My fingers are crossed.

Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?

[R.V.47]

Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?

I dont think so because if we do the right thing this offseason we should expect to have 3 second year or basically rookies in the rotation next year. By the right thing I mean get rid of Mussina by the way. Even George Steinbrennar has been around the game long enough to realize you need a year or two to get these guys going.

[ALR83]

nomaas

Okay that is brilliant. I needed to laugh, I'm a nervous wreck about this game!

Agreed. I really doubt that once Torre & the team hear of the comments, they all of a sudden will go "ohhhhhh okay, NOW we'll start playing harder."

Haha really.

Just curious here.... If Girardi does'nt get this team to the post season next year, or the team looses in the first round, is he gone?

If he became the new manager, and that was the result, I would hope not. I really am hoping he does take over for Joe whenever Joe leaves/is fired. I think Girardi would be a good fit.

[NelsonMuntz]

If you're looking for a coach to employ strategy, then Donnie is not going to be that guy. Girardi, howerver, would be.....

Agreed. Girardi is the guy I want managing the team if Torre is not brought back. If Mattingly is in line to take over then I would rather they just keep Torre.

[yankeeman61]

Agreed, Mattingly is apparently more laid back then Torre if thats possible. Girardi has experience, hes a former catcher which is always good and hes gort some fire. Im not saying the yankees need like a Lou Pinella type crazy guy but Girardi is smart enough to know when to be calm and also when to lay some discipline down. With the influx of young pitching we have coming out of our system very similar to what they had in Florida this seems like a no brainer to me.

And maybe Girardi will tell the Boss to be quiet and mind his own business like he did in Florida. Or maybe he will bring Joba back out after a rain delay and injure his arm. The grass is always greener, isn't it?

[46Mattingly23]

I love how my hometown paper got the scoop, and also I don't have a problem with what he said.

[R.V.47]

And maybe Girardi will tell the Boss to be quiet and mind his own business like he did in Florida. Or maybe he will bring Joba back out after a rain delay and injure his arm. The grass is always greener, isn't it?

If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.

[yankeeman61]

If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.

Don't get me wrong, I like Girardi. I'm just not convinced he is the right fit to handle everything it takes to manage the Yankees, the media, the Boss and the expectations. Yeah he did the unexpected in Florida but that's the point. How would he handle the highest of expectations? I don't know.

[roblyo33]

If were gonna talk about Girardi in Florida one thing should stick out. He took a bunch of minor leaguers and had them playing important games into September. Now obviously, with the veterans on the yankees he will change some of his ways Im sure he will not have to treat the players like a high school baseball coach the way he had to with the Marlins but you know hes gonna manage aggressively and you know he knows the game inside and out and has credibility as a former yankee who has 3 rings. You cant ask for much more than that I think.

I have not been impressed with Girardi's input when he has broadcast games for YES and FOX. Is he just being coy?? This is not a reason for not hiring him as manager but, just a comment.