Dustin Pedroia is a wrap as Rookie of the Year [Merged - Mod]

[aeromac76]

This late in the season (and this close to the ROY vote), a performance like yesterday's will seriously injure Matsuzaka's chances of winning. Similarly, a day like Pedroia had will boost his stock in the voters' eyes.

My point is, according to some writers a few years back, who left Hideki Matsui off their ballots entirely and made up their own rules, then by that logic Matsuzaka should not ever have had ANY chance of winning..

[Paiglee]

I have seen almost every game this season (yes, get a life, I know), and once he started hitting, he hits the ball hard. He is no banjo or Punch and Judy type of hitter. He seems to have fairly good "gap" power, and hits hard down the lines. Not a lot of "power" per se, but maybe he will grow into his swing.

Also, quite frankly, I would rather see him up at bat with some runners on than some of the other members of the team.

[JKelley34]

My point is, according to some writers a few years back, who left Hideki Matsui off their ballots entirely and made up their own rules, then by that logic Matsuzaka should not ever have had ANY chance of winning..

I had this argument with someone a few years ago, but both Berroa and Matsui were left off two ballots, so while Matsui was left off of two ballots because of his age, why was Berroa off any ballots in the first place. Anyhow the breakdown on the other 26 ballots ended up being

Berroa: 12 1st, 7 2nd, 7 3rd

Matsui: 10 1st, 9 2nd, 7 3rd

So there was some weird voting going on even without the Matsui bias. Berroa should never have been left off of two ballots and I was unable to find out why he was.

Also, Berroa had similar stats at a harder position (SS) and more steals. He was a deserving winner.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1658488

[YASS]

My point is, according to some writers a few years back, who left Hideki Matsui off their ballots entirely and made up their own rules, then by that logic Matsuzaka should not ever have had ANY chance of winning..

I agree that Japanese veterans shouldn't be eligible for rookie awards, and I think that whether the voters agree with me on that point or not, it's not likely one of the Japanese "rookies" is a serious contender for ROY, simply because their late season performances don't warrant it.

[NyQuil]

It's a spell to repel boggarts.

Remember though, the thing that really finishes off a boggart is laughter.

[Dannman103]

I agree that Japanese veterans shouldn't be eligible for rookie awards, and I think that whether the voters agree with me on that point or not, it's not likely one of the Japanese "rookies" is a serious contender for ROY, simply because their late season performances don't warrant it.

If they're gonna give it to a pitcher, it should be Bannister, plain and simple...his ERA is a run lower than Matsuzaka's

[CallOfTheCrow]

If they're gonna give it to a pitcher, it should be Bannister, plain and simple...his ERA is a run lower than Matsuzaka's

I'm not sure if he qualifies as a rookie.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

I'm not sure if he qualifies as a rookie.

He does. He didn't pitch more than 50 innings last year, and he wasn't active on an ML roster for more than 45 (non-September) days. He started the season with the Mets, but was DL'd at the end of April and not brought back until August 25.

[LuckyLopez]

Doesn't DL time count for the arbitration clock? Wouldn't it count for this as well? Honestly not sure, never had this stuff down.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Doesn't DL time count for the arbitration clock? Wouldn't it count for this as well? Honestly not sure, never had this stuff down.

Yes to the arb clock, no for rookie status.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/help/faq.html (Scroll most of the way down to the blurb about Chipper Jones).

[aeromac76]

I had this argument with someone a few years ago, but both Berroa and Matsui were left off two ballots, so while Matsui was left off of two ballots because of his age, why was Berroa off any ballots in the first place. Anyhow the breakdown on the other 26 ballots ended up being

Berroa: 12 1st, 7 2nd, 7 3rd

Matsui: 10 1st, 9 2nd, 7 3rd

So there was some weird voting going on even without the Matsui bias. Berroa should never have been left off of two ballots and I was unable to find out why he was.

Also, Berroa had similar stats at a harder position (SS) and more steals. He was a deserving winner.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1658488

Matsui drive in 106 runs (to Berroa's 73).
106 RBI for a rookie is nearly a historic total.
Maybe people think it is not as amazing because of Matsui's Japan league prowess before, but the rules say he was rookie, and the writers do NOT have the right to interpret the rules. That award was Matsui's. And I will go as far as to call it anti-NY bias because other Japan league all stars, Ichiro and Nomo, have won the award.
So why then, take the line in the sand against Matsui?

If they wish to change the rules, I do not have issue with it, as a matter of fact I think they should. But until they do, it is not up to a writer to "decide" whether a player meets his standard of the rookie status. Godzilla should have been given the same consideration as if he was a 19 year old american or latin born ballplayer with the same numbers on any team. It is the same thing as a few writers costing Pedro the MVP a few years back by leaving him totally of their ballots, not even placing him in the top 10 despite an historic season, just because he was a pitcher. They do not have the right to make up their own rules.

All I am saying, but I don't think it'll be an issue this year anyway, is that if a guy like Ichiro wins, and Nomo wins, and if a guy like Dice won it this year, you have to wonder why they only decided to enforce that "rule" once on Matsui.

[JKelley34]

Matsui drive in 106 runs (to Berroa's 73).
106 RBI for a rookie is nearly a historic total.
Maybe people think it is not as amazing because of Matsui's Japan league prowess before, but the rules say he was rookie, and the writers do NOT have the right to interpret the rules. That award was Matsui's. And I will go as far as to call it anti-NY bias because other Japan league all stars, Ichiro and Nomo, have won the award.
So why then, take the line in the sand against Matsui?

If they wish to change the rules, I do not have issue with it, as a matter of fact I think they should. But until they do, it is not up to a writer to "decide" whether a player meets his standard of the rookie status. Godzilla should have been given the same consideration as if he was a 19 year old american or latin born ballplayer with the same numbers on any team. It is the same thing as a few writers costing Pedro the MVP a few years back by leaving him totally of their ballots, not even placing him in the top 10 despite an historic season, just because he was a pitcher. They do not have the right to make up their own rules.

All I am saying, but I don't think it'll be an issue this year anyway, is that if a guy like Ichiro wins, and Nomo wins, and if a guy like Dice won it this year, you have to wonder why they only decided to enforce that "rule" once on Matsui.

No it wasn't.

Berroa went:

.287/.338/.451 - OPS: .789 - HR: 17 - RBI: 73 - SB: 21

Matsui went:

.287/.353/.435 - OPS: .788 - HR: 16 - RBI: 106 - SB: 2

Matsui also spent the majority of the season batting 5th, while Berroa batted 7th. Matsui naturally benefited from more RBI opportunities. Also, this fails to take into account that Berroa played SS, vs. LF for Matsui, so his VORP would have been higher as well.

Berroa and Matsui were both equally strong candidates and both were jobbed by writers in that they were each left off of two ballots. The close vote evidenced that the candidates were similar in profile. There was no yankee bias. Berroa was a deserving candidate and won. Matsui was also a deserving cadidate and finished second.

[LuckyLopez]

Matsui drive in 106 runs (to Berroa's 73).
106 RBI for a rookie is nearly a historic total.
Maybe people think it is not as amazing because of Matsui's Japan league prowess before, but the rules say he was rookie, and the writers do NOT have the right to interpret the rules. That award was Matsui's. And I will go as far as to call it anti-NY bias because other Japan league all stars, Ichiro and Nomo, have won the award.
So why then, take the line in the sand against Matsui?

Because 2 of 28 voters decided that the success of so many Japan league all stars moved the bar as to their expectations and thus whether they should be considered rookies. In 1995 it was a question. Maybe by 2003 that question wasn't as unclear? Bias could have been the reason or part of it but there is a very simple and easy fair reasoning for it.

If they wish to change the rules, I do not have issue with it, as a matter of fact I think they should. But until they do, it is not up to a writer to "decide" whether a player meets his standard of the rookie status. Godzilla should have been given the same consideration as if he was a 19 year old american or latin born ballplayer with the same numbers on any team. It is the same thing as a few writers costing Pedro the MVP a few years back by leaving him totally of their ballots, not even placing him in the top 10 despite an historic season, just because he was a pitcher. They do not have the right to make up their own rules.

Isn't the MVP award basically a matter of interpretation? The rules of the award even list any number of unmeasurable traits as reasoning for the award. And you ultimately have to decide which stats you like and which you don't. Is the HR hitter with a sub .300 average better than the .330 hitter with 30 SBs? Is a pitcher more valuable than a hitter? Personally I disagree with the "a pitcher shouldn't win" thinking but as long as MLB doesn't give a clear criteria for the award why shouldn't a voter be allowed to make a call on an unclear matter?

You pointed out Matsui's RBI as the reason he should have won over Berroa. Personally I think that's a poor stat under any circumstances but when comparing a slugging OFer in the heart of the Yankee order to a speedy SS leading off for the Royals I think it weighs even less as a comparative stat. But we interpret them differently to the point where you feel Berroa had no case.

All I am saying, but I don't think it'll be an issue this year anyway, is that if a guy like Ichiro wins, and Nomo wins, and if a guy like Dice won it this year, you have to wonder why they only decided to enforce that "rule" once on Matsui.

Who says they only enforced it on Matsui? That strikes me as myopic. Compare Tadahito Iguchi's rookie stats to Robinson Cano's and tell me why one fared so much better than the other.

Last season Takashi Saito went 6-2 with a 2.07 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 24 Saves, and 107 Ks in 78 IP. He finished 7th with only 2 points.

Akinori Otsuka and Shingo Takatsu were also legitimate ROY candidates who appeared to receive less support. I think there's a real arguement that Japan league veterans have been gradually losing support as being rookie eligible in the eyes of voters since Ichiro. Matsui was simply the first and iut shows in that he just barely missed the award and made 26 of 28 ballots.

If Matsuzaka makes all 28 ballots I think it will be very curious. If 26 voters put Matsuzaka on their ballots there's absolutely no grounds to call foul. It means Matsuzaka would have gotten the exact same consideration Matsui did. It would beg the question as to why Matsui and Matsuzaka got that much consideration when guys like Iguchi and Saito faired so poorly. I'd suspect that might be a bias that included NY as a big market team and Matsui as a big name.

But even that would be unfair unless I knew that the 28 guys in 2003 have been the same 28 guys until 2007. If the 2 guys who didn't vote for Matsui in 2003 didn't vote at all in 2007 would there be any grounds to claim bias or call foul? Yankee fans upset with that seem to always skip over that and see it as 28=28. But if its not the same 28 they're not resonpsible for consistency.

Yes to the arb clock, no for rookie status.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/help/faq.html (Scroll most of the way down to the blurb about Chipper Jones).

Thank you, very much. I've been unclear on that one for awhile. The Chipper example seems to make it pretty clear.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Not really anything to do with the topic, but I loved this answer from ROY candidate Brian Bannister to Olney's question. Sounds like a smart guy.

3. Can you compare your game preparations for AL lineups, compared with when you face NL lineups?


BB: When I am preparing for a lineup before a game, I start by building a plan based on the on-base percentage and slugging percentage of each spot in the lineup and their individual history against me. I then take it deeper by looking at how many pitches each hitter sees in an average at-bat and where I might be able to get some quick outs. My personal challenge each game is to throw seven innings in under 100 pitches before I am taken out. Good teams will not only beat you by getting more hits, but by running up your pitch count. I also note which hitters are prone to strikeouts if I have runner(s) in scoring position, and which runners have a high stolen base percentage if it is a tie or one-run game. In the AL, the 7, 8, 9 spots are generally the lower OPS hitters, although some managers will put a high OBP hitter with speed in the 9-hole. The hitters here are generally either young, over-aggressive, or low OBP/high SLG types, and it is crucial that you keep your pitch-count down and prevent them from setting the table for the high OPS hitters at the top of the lineup. In the NL, the most important thing is avoiding putting the 8 or the 7 and 8 hole hitter on base with no outs, because the pitcher will always sacrifice the runners over. If there are already two outs, you will usually pitch the 8 hole hitter with a lot of 2-strike type pitches in hopes he chases, because odds are that the pitcher will be an easier out.

[Dave Visbeck]

I'm still wondering how close the voting is going to be for this award. Still feel Pedroia has it wrapped up for sure.

[4bronxbombers]

I'm still wondering how close the voting is going to be for this award. Still feel Pedroia has it wrapped up for sure.

Who cares?


(j/k)

[Dave Visbeck]

Who cares?


(j/k)

I'm sorry Vicki.

Here ...

[4bronxbombers]

I'm sorry Vicki.

Here ...

Aww....I was just kiddin ya Dave. I know you care.

[Dave Visbeck]

Whelp ... I'm a happy camper today. Way to go Dustin! My doubts were few after you got past that bad April. I think that with your earning this award ... that you now may have become the sixth Sox player that has received the Rookie of the Year Award. Many congrats on your very fine rookie season!

[RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees]

Word is Dustin was so happy he won that he leaped to the side and rolled on the ground, only to end up 5 feet away.

[Lucen]

Word is Dustin was so happy he won that he leaped to the side and rolled on the ground, only to end up 5 feet away.

Wow... his range is improving.