series comments [yanks vs tigers]

[mycroft]

First of all I want to congratulate all you guys at the stadium that boo'ed Shefield and the Fox morons that tried to defend his comments can...

4 games back and counting

Game 1 Tigers 8-5~Mike Mussina absolutely stinks. Everytime we need a stopper, a big game in a big situation Mussina stinks it up and then cries about it on the post game.


Game 2 Yanks 6-1~Pettie did what Mussina couldn't do, show up. Andy pitched one of his best games of the year going 8 strong and giving up a mere run. Joba Chamberlain dominates the 9th and the 3 game skid is stopped cold. Giambi hits another homer with Abreu and Philips getting 3 hits a piece to lead the offense.


Game 3 Yanks 5-2~Rocket wasn't lights out but 2 runs over 6 innings is all the yanks need and the 3 game slide is put to rest. Farnsworth and Visciano do a great job and Mo nails the save looking more like his old self. Homers by Posada and Abreu lead the offense.

Game 4 Yanks 9-3~Wang wasn't great by a long shot and how he gave up only 3 runs in 6 innings is beyond me tossing wild pitches and allowing a stolen base to third as he watched the runner go and never threw the ball...had him dead to rights...??? Sometimes I look at Wang and wonder if there is anything going on in his head at all. Well what could have turned into a disaster turned out to be a great game as Joba (who came in and was greated with an amazing ovation) and Edwar Ramirez completely dominated the Tiger hitters striking out 5 of the 9 batters they faced. With Jeter and Gaimbi on the bench, Damon and Betemit had huge days leading the offense.

With the sawks losing the Yanks are now closing in. The next 10 games starting tonight in Aneheim are the most critical games of this season and will probably determine the Yankees fate as far as the playoffs are concerned. 3 in Aneheim, 4 in Detroit and then 3 against boston at the stadium.

The ESPN pundits all seem to feel the Yanks don't have enough pitching to make the playoffs and our offense isn't good enough to make up the difference. They also have said very little about Joba and Phil. Well, the next 10 games will be the test. With Gagne's implosion the sawks are looking over their shoulders and that object in the review mirror is getting closer every day. Like NASCAR, sometimes it is better being in second place drafting the lead car until the final stretch, then...zzoooooooommm!!!

GO ANSKY

[BRNXBMRS]

After Moose "spit the bit", I would have been ok with a slpit, but for the Yanks to bounce back and take the next 3 was more than I expected and put on display their new BRIDGE TO MO. Watch out AL!

[parkerstrong]

I don't think we can expect the Yankees to get 3 out of 4 in Detroit. I feel if we can go 5-5 in the next 10 games, we will be in good shape for the WC. 6-4 or 7-3 and we have a good shot at the division.

I see this
Ana 1-2
Det 2-2
Bos 2-1

Red Sox face 3 against TB and 4 against Chicago. They should go 5-2, so by my predictions the Yankees will only lose 1 game in the next 10.

[DrNick]

Game 4 Yanks 9-3~Wang wasn't great by a long shot and how he gave up only 3 runs in 6 innings is beyond me tossing wild pitches and allowing a stolen base to third as he watched the runner go and never threw the ball...had him dead to rights...???


GO ANSKY

I believe he balked and thats why he did not throw the ball

[mycroft]

If he threw the ball he wouldn't have balked

[RollingWave]

Again, I can't completely blame Moose for game one when 4 of his runs shouldn't even happen if Arod hadn't dropped the ball. he didn't pick up A-rod obviously, but the Tigers are a good hitting team too.

overall a very good series by both side though, you can really feel the playoff taste, both side keep making bold moves.

If he threw the ball he wouldn't have balked

and? Granderson still would have reached 3rd anyway, and he was obviously distracted already and there's a serious chance that he either throws a gopher or a wild pitch had he continued

Wang wasn't sharp but if you go back and look at the hits, he had 0 hits or even balls in play that made the OFers move back, he was far from getting smacked around. it's just that the Tigers have some great hitters and they really forced the issue well this series with all the hit and runs and agressive base runnings

[BRONXBOMBERS06]

I was at the game Sat, Tigers had Rocket on the hook a couple times. He pulled the great houdini act. Tigers have a pretty good lineup. So I'm happy grabbing 3 0f 4.

[NewEraYanks2527]

Joba (who came in and was greated with an amazing ovation) and Edwar Ramirez completely dominated the Tiger hitters striking out 5 of the 9 batters they faced.

When I read that and think about that, I get very excited.

[Jasbro]

If he threw the ball he wouldn't have balked

Yes he would have. He balked by stopping in the middle of his windup toward the plate when he saw the runner in motion.

Even if he threw to 3rd at that point, it still was a balk because of his aborted windup. As soon as he did it, he knew what he had done, and just stopped.

At least that's the way it looked from where I was sitting.

[Art Vanderlay]

Again, I can't completely blame Moose for game one when 4 of his runs shouldn't even happen if Arod hadn't dropped the ball. he didn't pick up A-rod obviously, but the Tigers are a good hitting team too.

overall a very good series by both side though, you can really feel the playoff taste, both side keep making bold moves.


and? Granderson still would have reached 3rd anyway, and he was obviously distracted already and there's a serious chance that he either throws a gopher or a wild pitch had he continued

Wang wasn't sharp but if you go back and look at the hits, he had 0 hits or even balls in play that made the OFers move back, he was far from getting smacked around. it's just that the Tigers have some great hitters and they really forced the issue well this series with all the hit and runs and agressive base runnings

Its not the first error that A-Rod has made and it won't be the last. And I'm sure Moose has benefitted from some of A-Rods offense. Pitchers have to be able to limit the damage when a bad play is made behind them. Moose had nothing on Thurday and thats why he lost. End of discussion.

[The Q Bomb]

Its not the first error that A-Rod has made and it won't be the last. And I'm sure Moose has benefitted from some of A-Rods offense. Pitchers have to be able to limit the damage when a bad play is made behind them. Moose had nothing on Thurday and thats why he lost. End of discussion.

Agreed. Also, if this were an isolated incident you could chalk it up to Moose getting rattled and having a bad game - but this is becoming a pattern with Mussina - when he doesn't get calls he likes or there is some misplay behind him he seems to fall apart. Of course, he's human, and he's a human with declining athletic skills so it's natural to be disappointed when things don't go your way, however, you are paid to compete and you must continue to compete even when things don't go your way. That tendency of Mussina's is more worrisome to me than the fact that he has a hard time getting good hitters out.

[RollingWave]

Its not the first error that A-Rod has made and it won't be the last. And I'm sure Moose has benefitted from some of A-Rods offense. Pitchers have to be able to limit the damage when a bad play is made behind them. Moose had nothing on Thurday and thats why he lost. End of discussion.

this is like saying if a OFer bobled the ball and accidently threw it out for a HR, it's the pitchers fault to let the ball hit there in the first place. or if a team made 4 strait error to give up 4 runs. it's also his falt for letting the ball in play. if the pitchers can't expect the guys behind them to actually make plays. then the only guy that could pitch in baseball is Sandy Koufax and Pedro Martinez and Nolan Ryan in their prime. (or maybe not even that, cause you also can't expect he catchers to catch the ball you throw) there's no denying that Moose wasn't good in the first game, but A-rod was almost as much at falt for the outting as he was. and Moose is getting a very unfair share of the heat.

[Panamaniac42]

Here's a good rip job by FJM on an absolutely awful article by some Detroit hack:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/08...-baseball.html

America has been led to believe that A-Rod is having the best season of any ballplayer currently playing.
...He is. Except for maybe H-Ram, to whom he's second in VORP, though ARod has a higher MLVr. See for yourself.

Therefore, the current hot debate with the Tigers competing in New York this weekend is the American League's most valuable player competition.
A-Rod is being championed as the shoo-in for the MVP. He leads MLB in home runs and RBIs.
Other things ARod is beating Magglio in:
VORP
OPS
Win Probability Added
RC
SecA
IsoP
EQR
Though Magglio has him in EqA, .333 to .332.

There is this bit of news for the great unwashed:
Magglio Ordonez hits home runs that win ball games.

Well, ................. Because ARod hits the kind that cause Peruvian earthquakes and give kids diseases.

He hits singles and doubles that contribute to winning ball games.

Dammit. I had no idea. ARod only hits the kind of singles that earn him, personally, money, which he uses to invest in blood diamond mines in Africa. And ARod's doubles -- besides taking runs off the board from his team -- are converted into energy that powers a rec center for Aryan nation youth gangs.

He hit a home run last October that won a pennant and sent his team into the World Series.
ARod sucks. Because he has never been placed in this exact situation and come through in exactly the same way. Robin Ventura is way better than ARod.

Ordonez happens to be immeasurably more valuable to his team than A-Rod is with all his fluff and flourishes, flubs and superfluous home runs.
There are any number of statistics I could use to prove you wrong, but I will actually just repeat what has been implied, and what is self-evident, if you think long and hard about what you just wrote and published:
You are stupid, sir. This is a stupid thing to say.

[NewEraYanks2527]

Doesn't A-Rod have a bunch of walkoff homeruns this season, isn't he batting like .500 in the 9th inning or something? I know someone has those stats.

[Dannman103]

Hey, I was at the Saturday game (and of course, booed Sheffield)...but what were the Fox guys saying about Sheffields comments? How did they try to defend them?

[Won Gien Ming]

Game 4 Yanks 9-3~Wang wasn't great by a long shot and how he gave up only 3 runs in 6 innings is beyond me tossing wild pitches and allowing a stolen base to third as he watched the runner go and never threw the ball...had him dead to rights...??? Sometimes I look at Wang and wonder if there is anything going on in his head at all. Well what could have turned into a disaster turned out to be a great game as Joba (who came in and was greated with an amazing ovation) and Edwar Ramirez completely dominated the Tiger hitters striking out 5 of the 9 batters they faced. With Jeter and Gaimbi on the bench, Damon and Betemit had huge days leading the offense.

I like how you gave no credit to Wang and acted like Joba and Ramirez won the game for us. You seem to be repeating the bashers' mentality in the Game Thread as Wang was struggling... being absolutely ridiculous in your comments, especially with you insinuating Wang is dumb or an air-head.

Sure, Wang wasn't doing well since the 4th inning and the pen did pitch lights out. But he got out of the holes he dug himself in, only giving up the lead once for half an inning, and came out of the game with the lead... obviously with the Yankee bats' help. In all honesty though, the defense didn't really help Wang out much, other than the balls hit at Cano. That double steal wasn't only Wang's fault. If you paid attention and watched carefully, Posada could have thrown the guy at 3rd out. Cano didn't pay attention and cover 2nd, so Sheff stole that base. Yes, it started with Wang not paying attention to the guy at 2nd, but you trying to fault Wang for the double steal is hilarious.

The fact is, Wang got a quality start and a WIN out of the game in which he "wasn't great by a long shot." Joba and Ramirez put the nails on the Tiger coffen, but did you forget that Wang also pitched extremely well innings 1-3? Yes, that's the same amount of innings as Joba and Ramirez combined in case you couldn't count. Anyway, the game was truly won by our bats once again. The pitchers did their job and the bats did the rest.


As for this topic... The Yankees took 3 out of 4 games from one of the best teams in the AL, where Detroit led the AL Central prior to facing the Yanks. Our top 3 starting pitchers did what they were supposed to. The bats are hot yet again, after their 2 game "slump." And our bullpen looks better than ever. We're still half a game behind Seattle, but that's because they've been playing very well recently just like us. In fact, we have the same record in the last 10 games: 7-3, both with a 3 game winning streak. We caught up a bit to the Sux with this series win. Hopefully we can keep this up against the Angels, Detroit again, and eventually against the Sux...

[mycroft]

Excuses are for losers, winners don't need them. Mussina seems to have a different excuse everytime he pitches. A big time pitcher has to pitch around an error, they happen.

Wang just doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree, or is just so distracted by his lack of control he gets tunnel vision.

[Won Gien Ming]

Hey, I was at the Saturday game (and of course, booed Sheffield)...but what were the Fox guys saying about Sheffields comments? How did they try to defend them?

I was at that game too (great game to watch on a great day, BTW), so I'm also a bit curious as to what the biased Fox announcers were saying. Oh, I didn't boo Sheff ONLY because he used to be a Yankee and played hard for us. But I certainly didn't appreciate his loud mouth and stupid comments toward Torre.

[Panamaniac42]

Wang just doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree, or is just so distracted by his lack of control he gets tunnel vision.

This reminds me of the people who say that Cano is lazy because they see a couple of errors and pay no attention or have no clue about how hard he works. I'm sure you know all about Wang's intelligence, baseball or otherwise, just like all the amateur psychologists who knew what was 'troubling' A-Rod.

[jughead]

Doesn't A-Rod have a bunch of walkoff homeruns this season, isn't he batting like .500 in the 9th inning or something? I know someone has those stats.

A-Rod in the following situations...

Situation: AVG/OBP/SLG
RISP: .302/.434/.643
2 outs, RISP: .322/.454/.864
Bases loaded: .364/.333/.909 (2 GS)
Late & Close: .340/.421/.720
Tie game: .254/.361/.574
Within 1 run: .306/.397/.658
9th inning: .485/.575/1.182 (you read that right - a 1.757 OPS in the 9th)
Extra innings: .333/.429/.500

[b-ball-lunachick]

I don't care if the Tigers' players had the flu, or what was going on...taking 3 out 4 was huge...

Leyland is definitely frustrated with the lack of hitting with RISP...I love Leyland -- this quote made me chuckle a bit:

The Tigers' final opportunity came in the sixth. With the score tied, runners on second and third and two outs, Sean Casey got ahead, 3-0, took two strikes, then grounded sharply to second.

It was the final pitch for Wang, of whom Leyland said, "He's a hell of a pitcher, but today was not one of his better days from the way I've seen him before. When you get a hell of a pitcher on a day when he's not a hell of a pitcher, you've got to do more than we did."

[wang+cano=future]

Wang just doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree, or is just so distracted by his lack of control he gets tunnel vision.

Are you serious? Have you talked to Wang a lot and are basing this off personal experience or just watching him in games? Of everything Ive heard from interviews and articles Wang seems very intelligent. Are you basing this on the fact that he doesn't show concern or frustration when he in a jam? Insulting one of the Yankees' great young pitchers doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. Also, are you basing his lack of control on the past couple of games because if you are you need to look at his entire Yankee career and not just the games he has struggled. Because if you are just looking at a small sample size than you seem to have tunnel vision as well.

[Won Gien Ming]

Yeah, Leyland is a stand-up guy and honest. Very good manager to boot.

[b-ball-lunachick]

Wang just doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb on the tree, or is just so distracted by his lack of control he gets tunnel vision.

From the interviews I've seen, I think Wang is very intelligent...besides, any guy that can figure out how to get hitters out consistently when he was pitching from flat ground before coming here, he can't be too dumb...

[NewEraYanks2527]

A-Rod in the following situations...

Situation: AVG/OBP/SLG
RISP: .302/.434/.643
2 outs, RISP: .322/.454/.864
Bases loaded: .364/.333/.909 (2 GS)
Late & Close: .340/.421/.720
Tie game: .254/.361/.574
Within 1 run: .306/.397/.658
9th inning: .485/.575/1.182 (you read that right - a 1.757 OPS in the 9th)
Extra innings: .333/.429/.500

Thank you jughead. Those are pretty good numbers in big spots that tend to win ball games.

[sweet_lou_14]

A-Rod in the following situations...

Situation: AVG/OBP/SLG
RISP: .302/.434/.643
2 outs, RISP: .322/.454/.864
Bases loaded: .364/.333/.909 (2 GS)
Late & Close: .340/.421/.720
Tie game: .254/.361/.574
Within 1 run: .306/.397/.658
9th inning: .485/.575/1.182 (you read that right - a 1.757 OPS in the 9th)
Extra innings: .333/.429/.500

Those stats are crazy. And yet, he's been oddly quiet of late. He had that 4-for-4 night but he isn't tearing the cover off the ball like he's capable. Which just shows you how much more rounded and versatile the offense is to be scoring so much without A-Rod carrying the team like he did in April.

[mycroft]

From the interviews I've seen, I think Wang is very intelligent...besides, any guy that can figure out how to get hitters out consistently when he was pitching from flat ground before coming here, he can't be too dumb...

Yea I know, but Sunday he just seemed clueless. He is so expressionless it is hard to tell what is going on. Bottom line with Wang is he needs to figure out his mechanics and not in the middle of the game.

As far as Mussina is concerned...I don't know. I think his skills have eroded to the point where he is mediocre on his best day and will go down hill from there. Whether Joe does something about it will depend on how the rest of the rotation pitches.

I see Visciano has taken Farnsworth spot as the 8th inning setup and Farns seems to have responded. That is a very good thing,

[Panamaniac42]

Yea I know, but Sunday he just seemed clueless. He is so expressionless it is hard to tell what is going on. Bottom line with Wang is he needs to figure out his mechanics and not in the middle of the game.

Expressionless = clueless?

[OlgMvp]

Great job by the Yanks, bouncing back after that tough first game...combined with the baltimore games.

A few months ago, this team would have lost life but instead fought harder. All good signs this weekend.

[Panamaniac42]

Great job by the Yanks, bouncing back after that tough first game...combined with the baltimore games.

A few months ago, this team would have lost life but instead fought harder. All good signs this weekend.

Yeah the 3 game slide gave me visions of that SF-Colorado swing. But they bounced back nicely.

[The Comic Book Guy]

Excuses are for losers, winners don't need them. Mussina seems to have a different excuse everytime he pitches. A big time pitcher has to pitch around an error, they happen.

What excuses did he make in his postgame?

[mycroft]

Expressionless = clueless?

Well he stared at a runner going to 3rd and watched him. You tell me.

[Won Gien Ming]

Well he stared at a runner going to 3rd and watched him. You tell me.

Just stop before you make yourself look even more foolish than you already have. We get it, you don't like Wang much and think he's not an intelligent person/player, just from watching yesterday's game and because there was a double steal on his watch... Even though he's known as one of the least-stolen on starter in all of baseball.

[Panamaniac42]

Game 1 Tigers 8-5~Mike Mussina absolutely stinks. Everytime we need a stopper, a big game in a big situation Mussina stinks it up and then cries about it on the post game.

What excuses did he make in his postgame?

I just watched and he seemed pretty accountable to me. mycroft if you have an example of what you're talking about, please elaborate. Moose interview is after Torre:

http://mfile.akamai.com/24715/wmv/ml...g_plus_400.wmv


"The game was over in the 1st inning...you cant do that kind of thing."

"I had bad counts, I got pitches up in the strike zone...walking people...I lost the game in the 1st inning."

"I dont think it was gonna be a double play, probably could've got 1...that would've been the 2nd out of the inning, but it doesnt change what I was doing...It was a struggle from the beginning...it kind of makes what I've done the last couple of weeks seem a long time ago."

"I have to do my job when it's my turn to play and today I didn't do it and that's frustrating."

[Panamaniac42]

Well he stared at a runner going to 3rd and watched him. You tell me.

Andy Pettitte had home stolen on him this year. He must have Down syndrome.

[Won Gien Ming]

Andy Pettitte had home stolen on him this year. He must have Down syndrome.

[Maynerd]

So, Moose is no good because you can see his frustration when things don't go well, and Wanger is no good because you CAN'T see his frustration when things don't go well.

Tough crowd.

[Game4Tino]

I don't know, I used to have the problem with Moose and his excuses, but he has been pretty forthcoming this season with regards to his poor performance.

[mycroft]

I don't know, I used to have the problem with Moose and his excuses, but he has been pretty forthcoming this season with regards to his poor performance.

Yes he admists he stinks. Well that helps.

We needs our players to be a lot more heady. Stupidity and an unawareness of the situation is a mark of a loser and I certainly never said Pettitte's brain cramp was any better. I have given up on Posada. Staring at a runner stealing third and just letting it happen though...oy.

[Panamaniac42]

What excuses did he make in his postgame?

I guess you're not going to get an answer.

[Panamaniac42]

Yes he admists he stinks. Well that helps.

We needs our players to be a lot more heady. Stupidity and an unawareness of the situation is a mark of a loser and I certainly never said Pettitte's brain cramp was any better. I have given up on Posada. Staring at a runner stealing third and just letting it happen though...oy.

I wish some posters were a lot more heady instead of making stuff up to support their bashing.

I'm no fan of Mussina's but you've failed to explain how he cried and made excuses in the post game. And this stuff about Wang being clueless and stupid is amazing. You "have given up on Posada" for being the 2nd most valuable player on our team, yikes.

[sweet_lou_14]

I guess you're not going to get an answer.

Seemed like a rhetorical question to me.

The idea that Wang is an idiot has no basis, and the idea that Mussina makes excuses after every poor start hasn't been true in a while.

[WillC]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong didn't we just take 3 of 4 from Detroit? What is with all the negativity?

Wang didn't have great stuff...so what...he had enough to limit the damage and get the win.

Mussina succked...isn't this par for the course with him? Doesn't he pitch well every two to three games and then gets shelled the next?

All we need is for this team to keep winning series and we make the playoffs.

Lighten up. Be happy we can even fret about the playoffs and how our team played today. If you need a reality check think back to April and May and how this team looked then.

[DrNick]

Well he stared at a runner going to 3rd and watched him. You tell me.

Oh thats right I forgot about the little know rule of even though you balk..if you get the runner out its ok!!!

[The Q Bomb]

I just watched and he seemed pretty accountable to me. mycroft if you have an example of what you're talking about, please elaborate. Moose interview is after Torre:

http://mfile.akamai.com/24715/wmv/ml...g_plus_400.wmv


"The game was over in the 1st inning...you cant do that kind of thing."

"I had bad counts, I got pitches up in the strike zone...walking people...I lost the game in the 1st inning."

"I dont think it was gonna be a double play, probably could've got 1...that would've been the 2nd out of the inning, but it doesnt change what I was doing...It was a struggle from the beginning...it kind of makes what I've done the last couple of weeks seem a long time ago."

"I have to do my job when it's my turn to play and today I didn't do it and that's frustrating."

• Well, thanks to panamaniac, Mussina has been exonerated of making excuses. Now, he just needs to pitch better and all will be forgiven. On the personality part of the issue - I've found Mussina is one of the most honest and open interviews (if not the liveliest) on the team.
• As far as Wang being clueless and lackadasical - I believe one of the things that impressed the scout(s) who recommended him to Cashman was the way he competed in addition to his talent, ability and "stuff". I believe I heard Cashman or the scout on a radio show site a game (before he was signed by The Yanks) in which Wang was struggling and just took on a different demeanor, bore down and got out of a jam.
• Yes, Leyland is a great manager and up front and plain spoken. I'd love him to be the next Yankee manager.

[Game4Tino]

• Yes, Leyland is a great manager and up front and plain spoken. I'd love him to be the next Yankee manager.

AGH, NO!

Why not sign Pudge and let Jorge walk while we're at it?

GOD FORBID both of these events from ever ocurring!