Closed Thread
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 331

Thread: Change conditioning and strength coaches

  1. #51

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez
    two years ago I was training in the Disney sports complex. I met the braves stregnth and conditioning coach(who btw confirmed that I was faster than Raphael Furcal) and shared a weight room with the braves. No relevant player was working with him because they were all doing their own things with their own guys. The scrubby players that were there were doing a very basic cookie cutter workout. Stregnth and conditioning coaches get their jobs because of who they are and who they know. I wouldn't assume its much different with the Yankees. Especially not during spring training, which is when all of these injuries would have originated.

    I will say though that Mussina's injury makes sense and shoudn't be blamed on anybody. He had been pitching-and likely running/conditioning ect- in 30-50 degree weather. Then he goes to the dome where i'm sure it is very warm. When you train in the cold your limbs, particularly the legs, can only reach a certain range of motion. If you work out/run too close to that in a much warmer environment these things happen because your body isn't used to the range of motion.
    Following the Giambi issue, the Yankees decided to not allow any non-team personnel into the clubhouse - including the gym. So, the only S&C guys in there are team-hired guys.

    And if I'm remembering right, MLB followed this, and banned any non-team trainers as well. But, I'm not positive on the latter.

  2. #52
    NYYF Legend

    goin for 27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    8,655

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    I believe that you are correct on MLB banning non team trainers in the Clubhouses, both home and away.

  3. #53

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve
    Being a trainer in a retirement community isn't exactly what I'd look for on a resume if I was hiring someone to keep the Yankees in the best possible playing condition.
    Unless it's Izzy Mandelbaum.
    ~John

  4. #54
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Dude, we just don't know
    Posts
    8,707

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve
    That jumped out at me also. Being a trainer in a retirement community isn't exactly what I'd look for on a resume if I was hiring someone to keep the Yankees in the best possible playing condition.
    Ya. If that's the case it makes more sense for him to be the Met's fitness guy.
    I heard this today...Did Coltrane actually exist? This is like being blind for 50 years, regaining sight, and then peering directly at the sun.

  5. #55
    Released Outright
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Westchester-ish
    Posts
    18,236

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve
    That jumped out at me also. Being a trainer in a retirement community isn't exactly what I'd look for on a resume if I was hiring someone to keep the Yankees in the best possible playing condition.
    This sounds like it was a Cashman hire so I have to believe he felt it was a good choice and that it wasn't just cronyism but I would like to know more about why he was selected and what Cash thought he could bring to the team that wasn't already being addressed.

  6. #56

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez
    two years ago I was training in the Disney sports complex. I met the braves stregnth and conditioning coach(who btw confirmed that I was faster than Raphael Furcal) and shared a weight room with the braves. No relevant player was working with him because they were all doing their own things with their own guys. The scrubby players that were there were doing a very basic cookie cutter workout. Stregnth and conditioning coaches get their jobs because of who they are and who they know. I wouldn't assume its much different with the Yankees. Especially not during spring training, which is when all of these injuries would have originated.

    I will say though that Mussina's injury makes sense and shoudn't be blamed on anybody. He had been pitching-and likely running/conditioning ect- in 30-50 degree weather. Then he goes to the dome where i'm sure it is very warm. When you train in the cold your limbs, particularly the legs, can only reach a certain range of motion. If you work out/run too close to that in a much warmer environment these things happen because your body isn't used to the range of motion.
    Good point..before anyone jumps on the employee in charge of conditioning, please realize that most of these prima-donnas have their own trainers, dieticians, etc....(and I hear that some of them hire "guest workers" to cut their steaks into small, chewable pieces)
    "I'm sorry Smokey, you were over the line, that's a foul....mark it zero Dude, next frame"

  7. #57
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    a long way from yankee stadium.
    Posts
    20,170

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    whe i get injured, it is my responsibilty. i understand they have "guys" to advise and direct them but i player should be prepared to put the work in. they play a game for 3 hours everyday. that leaves plenty of time to stay in shape.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away; 'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  8. #58

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by Meecham4ever
    Good point..before anyone jumps on the employee in charge of conditioning, please realize that most of these prima-donnas have their own trainers, dieticians, etc
    The issue isn't really with the physical fitness routines of the individual players. It's the pre-game team warmup/stretching exercises that are causing concern among some players and coaches as being a possible cause for the rash of muscle pulls/strains.

    http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pb...00/1034/SPORTS
    According to several players, Miller's program de-emphasizes running as a way to increase leg strength. He also took away the large rubber bands that Mangold used to help players stretch before games.

    Some players have chosen to ignore Miller's methods, believing the lunges and other calisthenics he prescribes are too strenuous. Whether or not to trust Miller has become a topic in the clubhouse just eight games into the season.

    Several Yankees said that the team's pregame stretching routine is just an excuse for players to talk to each other before batting practice. Mussina said he incorporates only some of the new program.
    You can be the world's most well-conditioned athlete, but if your muscles aren't properly warmed up before you engage in sports activity, you are very prone to muscle injuries.
    ~John

  9. #59
    NYYF Legend


    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    West Nyack New York
    Posts
    12,259

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Torre said he doesn't blame Miller but wants the program reevaluated.
    "I think it's one of those freak things that we've had happen here," he said. "But we'll shake it out and see where we are

  10. #60
    27 in 2009? Jen19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,222

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    I think the cold weather, for the most part, has a lot to do with the injuries. I know you can't say that about the Florida or dome weather, but it must play a big part. It's too early to judge the S & C guys.
    "Maybe someday you'll be our shortstop and your number will hang out here (in Monument Park),'" recalled Cashman. "He's the only one I ever said that to, and it's actually going to happen."

  11. #61
    NYYF Cy Young


    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,573

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    If it's true as in the comment that running is de-emphasized, that means hamstrings aren't worked as much, and if quad exercises are more rigorous then there could be an imbalance as some people have suggested. Pettitte certainly believes in running, since he has said not being able to do it while his back was recovering set him back strengthwise. In any event, 3 hamstring injuries just seems to many to be totally coincidental.

  12. #62
    Addicted Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    514

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    I think it's too early in the season to blame the new S&C guys, but if this keeps up we could have some serious problems. There should be an evaluation on the effectiveness of the new regime.

  13. #63

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by PoughVirginiaYankee
    Following the Giambi issue, the Yankees decided to not allow any non-team personnel into the clubhouse - including the gym. So, the only S&C guys in there are team-hired guys.

    And if I'm remembering right, MLB followed this, and banned any non-team trainers as well. But, I'm not positive on the latter.
    I remember that too, but that doesn't mean these men stop making the workouts for their clients, especially in spring training, which is when most of these injuries would have originated with the possible exception of Mussina who may have injured himself stepping off the mound oddly. Pettitte and Clemens did their own thing for years. I'm sure Mangold was there, but he he obviously wasn't the man with the plan because it preceeded him and none of the other yankees were doing it.

  14. #64

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIM 2002
    If it's true as in the comment that running is de-emphasized, that means hamstrings aren't worked as much, and if quad exercises are more rigorous then there could be an imbalance as some people have suggested. Pettitte certainly believes in running, since he has said not being able to do it while his back was recovering set him back strengthwise. In any event, 3 hamstring injuries just seems to many to be totally coincidental.
    pettitte also does serious squating, where hamstrings are the primary muscle unless done improporly(the attention is probably why he's the only player on the team with a healthy hamstring haha). Seriously though I really think its strange for pitchers to cut running. especially starting pitchers.

  15. #65
    NYYF Triple Crown


    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Under The Big Apple
    Posts
    2,861

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Personally, I think that baseball players should stop working out in the off-season and go back to being the flabby, almost non-athletes that I grew up watching. You know the type Terry Forster, Al Hrabosky, David Wells...


    Remember, you can't injure fat.

  16. #66

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    You have to be skeptical, since a lot of guys have gone down with similar leg injuries (Wang, Mussina, Damon).

    But I don't think that reason to start talking about firing people or whatever. Things happen.

  17. #67
    NYYF Triple Crown

    35Knucklecurve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Maryland branches, Pennsylvania roots
    Posts
    3,493

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheJetRodriguez
    pettitte also does serious squating, where hamstrings are the primary muscle unless done improporly(the attention is probably why he's the only player on the team with a healthy hamstring haha). Seriously though I really think its strange for pitchers to cut running. especially starting pitchers.
    That really got my attention too - cutting running. I've never heard of that before.

    I just think there had to be somebody out there with better qualifications than Miller. Being a fitness instructor at a retirement community doesn't exactly blow me away. I know the Yankees as a whole are older than quite a few other teams, but they aren't ready for prunes, Depends and bingo....yet.
    September 28, 2008 - the day the HOF got a wake-up Moose call.

  18. #68
    Released Outright
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Westchester-ish
    Posts
    18,236

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by 35Knucklecurve
    That really got my attention too - cutting running. I've never heard of that before.

    I just think there had to be somebody out there with better qualifications than Miller. Being a fitness instructor at a retirement community doesn't exactly blow me away. I know the Yankees as a whole are older than quite a few other teams, but they aren't ready for prunes, Depends and bingo....yet.
    It didn't say they were cutting running but that they were de-emphasizing it. I thought that meant reducing it.

  19. #69
    NYYF Legend

    stephsamps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State
    Posts
    4,955

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by silverdsl
    You'd think they'd want to go with a different title considering the focus on getting rid of performance enhancers in the sport.

    I guess I'm surprised that Miller was hired when he has so little experience in professional sports, and none of it recently.
    Serious case of bad branding. When I heard him introduced on opening day, I started calling him the viagra coach. Given the type of injuries, "the other" performance enhancing nickname has come to mind.

    I have to say I am quite surprised by this hire, especially with little pro sports experience. I agree with Torre's take that its not necesarily this guy's fault, but it should be examined.

  20. #70
    Released Outright Won Gien Ming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Buffalo/Rockland, NY
    Posts
    927

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Should we start taking bets to see who the S&C staff's next victim is? This is seriously getting out of hand. Most of our SPs are now on the DL, have been on the DL this year, and/or have been injured at one point so far this season.

  21. #71
    ...younger than that now. OldYankeeFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    1 hr north of 161st
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: Change conditioning and strength coaches

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spiker101
    They've now got four of the top six starters on the DL, three of them with muscle injuries. They've got one outfielder on the DL with a muscle injury, and had a second outfielder miss games because of a muscle injury. They had a third outfielder miss two-thirds of spring training with a muscle injury.
    And the organizational talking heads say the rash of muscle injuries is not related to the fact there is a new head of training, that it's just circumstantial. To which I say, circumstantial evidence has put many a man into the electric chair.



    Two muscle injuries = coincidence

    Three = a trend

    Four = pattern

    Six = Freakin' time to get a new strength and conditioning coach.
    #27and still Counting.

  22. #72

    last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Dont give me knee-jerk reaction or "yankeestripes thread" either. This is BS.

    Our entire rotation has had some kind of injury.


    The following players have had hamstring injuries:

    Damon, Mussina, Wang, Hughes, and I think Karstens had one as well.


    This is Horsesh*t.
    Lead the way, Mr. Girardi.

  23. #73
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Dude, we just don't know
    Posts
    8,707

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    completely agree -- this is absurd
    I heard this today...Did Coltrane actually exist? This is like being blind for 50 years, regaining sight, and then peering directly at the sun.

  24. #74
    on the 15-day DL Mark19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    NoVa
    Posts
    17,702

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    yup, from what I've read, no one takes them seriously
    SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
    Igawa: That's secret.


    "They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees

  25. #75
    NYYF MVP


    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Washington,D.C. area
    Posts
    1,407

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Cash bring back last year's coaches - get rid of these people!!!

  26. #76
    NYYF Legend

    In Mo I Trust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jamaica Plain, MA
    Posts
    12,029

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I agree, this is ridiculous.
    Alex Rodriguez
    Career OPS: .965
    Postseason OPS: .977

  27. #77
    CALL UP MONTERO!!!! dabomb2045's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Posts
    31,824

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I have never seen a team with so many damn muscle pulls.....this CANNOT be a coincidence.

    New strength and conditioning people take over.....all of a sudden we have guys dropping like flies with muscle pulls.

    Jesus Montero since June 1 (286 at-bats):
    .325/.386/.605/.991
    July 1 (182 at-bats):
    .348/.417/.658/1.075

  28. #78

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Has Hughes been influenced by the ML strength and conditioning coaches at all? Aren't there different ones at each minor league level?
    ""Snoop Dogg," he said. "Good songs."" Chien-Ming Wang

  29. #79

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Mussina said they didnt run much in Spring. It was part of the new program. Sounds pretty absurd to me.
    Lead the way, Mr. Girardi.

  30. #80
    NYYF Legend

    JeffWeaverFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    26,460

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I completely agree.

    edit: And Cashman better answer questions as to why he decided this was a good idea. So far it is killing us.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  31. #81
    NYYF Legend

    TheBamTino24's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    161st & River Ave.
    Posts
    10,325

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045
    I have never seen a team with so many damn muscle pulls.....this CANNOT be a coincidence.

    New strength and conditioning people take over.....all of a sudden we have guys dropping like flies with muscle pulls.
    Completely agree. This is an epidemic now.
    GO YANKS
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 9 10 15 16 20 21 23 32 37 42 44 49 51
    "We play today, we win today. 'Dassit!'

    In memory of George Steinbrenner & Bob Sheppard. Rest In Peace.

  32. #82

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HidekiIrabu
    Has Hughes been influenced by the ML strength and conditioning coaches at all? Aren't there different ones at each minor league level?
    Hughes spent spring with the yanks, and I am sure the minor leaguers would have the same program as the major leaguers.
    Lead the way, Mr. Girardi.

  33. #83
    mmmm, Young Pitchers justinvarnes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    3,812

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HidekiIrabu
    Has Hughes been influenced by the ML strength and conditioning coaches at all? Aren't there different ones at each minor league level?
    He spent well over a month with them in ST. And the last week.
    Anonymous internet thread posters say the darndest things.

  34. #84
    Yanked Out Of The Womb nyctalopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Too close to Fenway ...
    Posts
    986

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    new program = bad. time for heads to roll.
    WELCOME JOE.

  35. #85

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by HidekiIrabu
    Has Hughes been influenced by the ML strength and conditioning coaches at all? Aren't there different ones at each minor league level?
    Well, he was in major league camp during Spring Training.

  36. #86
    The Big Schill CTSoxFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Greenwich, CT
    Posts
    4,831

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    The proof is in the pudding. And when it starts to affect a brilliant prospect like Hughes, time for heads to roll.
    "...it was blood, my blood, and it was coming from the sutures in my ankle. You’re either stupid or bitter if you think otherwise." --Curt Schilling on the Bloody Sock, 3/17/07

  37. #87
    Yanked Out Of The Womb nyctalopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Too close to Fenway ...
    Posts
    986

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    tyler clippard time?
    WELCOME JOE.

  38. #88
    NYYF Legend

    Sam18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    NYC or 2.77 miles from the greatest stadium on earth
    Posts
    45,737

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan
    I completely agree.

    edit: And Cashman better answer questions as to why he decided this was a good idea. So far it is killing us.
    Absolutely agreed. This falls on Cashman too.
    Slaughter Is The Best Medicine
    -=2009=WORLD=CHAMPIONS=-
    FIRE JETER

  39. #89
    Ito Ang Beer! BroadwayBomber55's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    SF-Oak-SJ Bay Area, California
    Posts
    49,901

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I complete agree on firing the strength and conditioning coaches.

    Too many injuries.

    We need more jogging and running in our workout programs.
    "Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano

    One must know pain to be a hero.



  40. #90
    NYYF Legend

    Dr. Gonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    zamunda
    Posts
    6,834

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    this sucks so much

    injuries are costing us, not simply just losing and that is very annoying

  41. #91

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    This is ridiculous, HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?!
    The loser now will be later to win...

  42. #92
    NYYF Triple Crown


    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rochester, New York
    Posts
    2,515

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeStripes
    Dont give me knee-jerk reaction or "yankeestripes thread" either. This is BS.

    Our entire rotation has had some kind of injury.


    The following players have had hamstring injuries:

    Damon, Mussina, Wang, Hughes, and I think Karstens had one as well.


    This is Horsesh*t.
    Completely agree. This is has gotten ridiculous.

    On the players you've got listed, I could be wrong, but didn't Matsui have a hamstring injury, as well?

  43. #93

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I'm on board with this. The popping of Hughes' hammy was hopefully the sound of a few people on their way out of the organization.


  44. #94
    CALL UP MONTERO!!!! dabomb2045's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Posts
    31,824

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Lets be fair here too....Cashman deserves to be called out for this. Everyone here is quick to always bash Torre (and alot of the time, rightly so)....but Cash is somewhat of a "golden boy" around these parts.

    Well this was HIS decision. He decided to dump Jeff Mangold, and hire these new guys. He needs to answer for this, and he needs to take hits for it. It obviously was a terrible decision.

    Jesus Montero since June 1 (286 at-bats):
    .325/.386/.605/.991
    July 1 (182 at-bats):
    .348/.417/.658/1.075

  45. #95

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    I think this was the actual plan. Get all the pitchers hurt in the beginning of the year then everyone is all rested up for the post season.

    So far so good.
    If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.

  46. #96
    NYYF Cy Young


    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    deep to right and out of here
    Posts
    2,150

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Has the actual program changed significantly or is the change just new personnel? I agree the results are maddening.
    Never let the fear of striking out get in your way. - Babe Ruth

  47. #97
    abides RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    lil'rhody
    Posts
    30,634

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    This is on the verge of being comical at this point. They have to at least address this publicly.

  48. #98
    Thanks for the memories Kate frostdude1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Windsor, Canada
    Posts
    2,725

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Do it tonight George !!!
    WORLD CHAMPIONS !!!
    #27

  49. #99
    NYYF Legend

    TheBamTino24's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    161st & River Ave.
    Posts
    10,325

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045
    Lets be fair here too....Cashman deserves to be called out for this. Everyone here is quick to always bash Torre (and alot of the time, rightly so)....but Cash is somewhat of a "golden boy" around these parts.

    Well this was HIS decision. He decided to dump Jeff Mangold, and hire these new guys. He needs to answer for this, and he needs to take hits for it. It obviously was a terrible decision.
    Absolutely. Something needs to be done about this. Leave the players suffering these injuries to Gene Monahan and Steve Donohue only, please.

    New guys just stay away, LOL.
    GO YANKS
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 9 10 15 16 20 21 23 32 37 42 44 49 51
    "We play today, we win today. 'Dassit!'

    In memory of George Steinbrenner & Bob Sheppard. Rest In Peace.

  50. #100
    B is for Bandwagon MattUNC2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,886

    Re: last straw....FIRE the strength and conditioning coaches

    Quote Originally Posted by nyctalopia
    tyler clippard time?
    Matt DeSalvo or Darrell Rasner. Whoever's hamstring is the healthiest.

Closed Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts