Why Is The Media So In Love With This Years Tigers ??

[donniesrecordholdsup]

isnt it obvious they were a complete fluke last season ?? their lineup is grossly overated. it wasnt even good last year. everyone goes nuts because guys like thames, monroe and inge hit 20 homeruns but their obp's were all terrible. and these were supposedly career years from these guys and they werent even that good. and just adding sheffield doesnt make them this juggernaut. hes not bonds circa 00-04.

plus kenny rogers will not have another very good season. and todd jones wont either. so basically they have 3 good young starters and zumaya. this is some great team ?? i dont even think they make the postseason let slone win the world series.

and the worst part is we were supposed to avoid all this nonsense of some new dynasty which we get every year when these fluke teams like the marlins and chi sox win the ws because the cardinals beat the tigers. but instead everyone is acting like the tigers won the ws last year.

[Octoberbaby]

isnt it obvious they were a complete fluke last season ?? their lineup is grossly overated. it wasnt even good last year. everyone goes nuts because guys like thames, monroe and inge hit 20 homeruns but their obp's were all terrible. and these were supposedly career years from these guys and they werent even that good. and just adding sheffield doesnt make them this juggernaut. hes not bonds circa 00-04.

plus kenny rogers will not have another very good season. and todd jones wont either. so basically they have 3 good young starters and zumaya. this is some great team ?? i dont even think they make the postseason let slone win the world series.

and the worst part is we were supposed to avoid all this nonsense of some new dynasty which we get every year when these fluke teams like the marlins and chi sox win the ws because the cardinals beat the tigers. but instead everyone is acting like the tigers won the ws last year.

They made the Yankees look bad last year so that was the feather in their cap. Leland is the new media darling too.

[Panamaniac42]

Yeah Jim Leyland is the only manager that wears spikes, he's amazing!!! He did a good job last year but he's the new media darling a la Jack McKeon.

[Casey37]

Probably because of their pitching staff, which is full of studs....

[DaPip1998]

isnt it obvious they were a complete fluke last season ?? their lineup is grossly overated. it wasnt even good last year. everyone goes nuts because guys like thames, monroe and inge hit 20 homeruns but their obp's were all terrible. and these were supposedly career years from these guys and they werent even that good. and just adding sheffield doesnt make them this juggernaut. hes not bonds circa 00-04.

plus kenny rogers will not have another very good season. and todd jones wont either. so basically they have 3 good young starters and zumaya. this is some great team ?? i dont even think they make the postseason let slone win the world series.

and the worst part is we were supposed to avoid all this nonsense of some new dynasty which we get every year when these fluke teams like the marlins and chi sox win the ws because the cardinals beat the tigers. but instead everyone is acting like the tigers won the ws last year.

I thought I was crazy, but I totally agree. Now Rogers is out at least half of the season, so that is a huge void.

[bigjf]

Watch for the Royals to sneak in behind everyone's backs and win the division! Gil Meche baby!!!!

(note: kidding)

[ChrisV82]

I think the Tigers will win the division again. I would prefer Chicago but Detroit has better pitching and Ozzie Guillen is stacking the front of his line-up with people who can't get on base. Cleveland has no pitching and Minnesota, surprisingly, has serious rotation issues after Santana.

Kansas City...yeah...

So anyway, I think Detroit pulls it off again. Yeah, they had a terrible OBP, but they can pitch and the addition of Sheffield could be a boon.

[Janttje]

Cause they got Sheffield

[Davios]

Perhpas because they are the best team in the league. Their pitching staff is very very strong behind guys like Verlander and Bonderman who have big-time power arms, behind them they have some very reliable starters in Robertson and Rogers. Granted Kenny is out right now, but the thing about this team is they also have the depth in the minors to make them a powerhouse with young kids waiting in the wings like Tata and Andrew Miller. Their bullpen is unbelivably good with guys like Zumaya, Rodney, Ledezma, Jones, and hell even Grilli is a decent power arm to trot out of the pen.

Offensively they were already a very very well rounded team capable of beating you any way with bats like Granderson, Guillen, Magglio, Monroe, Inge, Polanco, and Pudge. Not only that, now they add a legitimate power threat in the middle of the lineup with Gary Sheffield. They play in a rough division, but talent wise they are the cream of the crop in every facet of the game. It is only natural for the media to jump on their bandwagon.

[chanman7483]

Probably because of their pitching staff, which is full of studs....

I took Bonderman in a lot of my leagues - He's just getting better and better each year.

ERA the past 4 years: 5.56, 4.89, 4.57, 4.08
Combine that with his rising K totals, and increasingly improved control and you have a stud right there.

Someone on ESPN said that Verlander and Bonderman are potential health risks though, as they pitched WAY more innings than they ever have before due to how deep they made it in the playoffs. We'll see.

[Why Not?]

I don't think the media is particularly in love with the Tigers. I don't know why you're saying that. They won the pennant last year, so they must have SOMETHING going for them, right?

They've got a strong team that learned how to win last year. Still, a lot of people are picking any of the three other decent teams in that division to win it.

[Cuban Connection]

isnt it obvious they were a complete fluke last season ?? their lineup is grossly overated. it wasnt even good last year. everyone goes nuts because guys like thames, monroe and inge hit 20 homeruns but their obp's were all terrible. and these were supposedly career years from these guys and they werent even that good. and just adding sheffield doesnt make them this juggernaut. hes not bonds circa 00-04.

plus kenny rogers will not have another very good season. and todd jones wont either. so basically they have 3 good young starters and zumaya. this is some great team ?? i dont even think they make the postseason let slone win the world series.

and the worst part is we were supposed to avoid all this nonsense of some new dynasty which we get every year when these fluke teams like the marlins and chi sox win the ws because the cardinals beat the tigers. but instead everyone is acting like the tigers won the ws last year.

I wish I had the ability to detect fluke teams and determine the future as well as you. Do you have a time machine or something?

[Dog Named Fred]

isnt it obvious they were a complete fluke last season ?? their lineup is grossly overated. it wasnt even good last year. everyone goes nuts because guys like thames, monroe and inge hit 20 homeruns but their obp's were all terrible. and these were supposedly career years from these guys and they werent even that good. and just adding sheffield doesnt make them this juggernaut. hes not bonds circa 00-04.

plus kenny rogers will not have another very good season. and todd jones wont either. so basically they have 3 good young starters and zumaya. this is some great team ?? i dont even think they make the postseason let slone win the world series.

and the worst part is we were supposed to avoid all this nonsense of some new dynasty which we get every year when these fluke teams like the marlins and chi sox win the ws because the cardinals beat the tigers. but instead everyone is acting like the tigers won the ws last year.

It might be because they won the pennant last year, their young pitchers are a year older and wiser, they've got Andrew Miller waiting in the wings, and they lost nobody of significance while adding a fellow by the name of Sheffield.

[Sam18]

I think the Tigers will win the division again.

Like they didn't last year?

[Rocketman]

The Tigers are absolutely the most overrated team in baseball.

Is Justin Verlander a total stud? Yes. Are Bonderman and Zumaya? Absolutely.

Is Carlos Guillen a terrific, underrated hitter and shortstop? Definitely.

Beyond that, perhaps every single player on the Tigers is likely to have a worse season than they did last year. Outside of Guillen, the best/most accomplished offensive player on Detroit is Magglio Ordonez. Due to injuries, these are Magglio's HR totals for the past 3 year: 9, 8, 24. Meanwhile, Magglio will be 33 years this season and he hasn't had an OBP over .360 or a SLG over .485 since 2003. Gary Sheffield was injured for almost all of last season and his defense has become much worse as he's aged. There is absolutely no guarantee he's going to be the hitter he was on Atlanta or when he first came to the Yankees.

Ivan Rodriguez hit .300 last year... and had a .332 OBP. The year before he posted a .290 OBP. Ivan hasn't hit 20 HR since 2001. Given that IRod has played 1934 major league games at catcher, odds are he's going to continue his regression, too.

Craig Monroe has never had an OBP over .337 (it was .301 last year). He'll be 30 this season. Marcus Thames has never had an OBP over .333. These are CORNER OUTFIELDERS on the Tigers.

The only other offensive player that may improve is Curtis Granderson, who was pretty good at 25 - but still posted an OPS+ of under 100.

What does all this add up to? It adds up to an offense that WILL NOT score a ton of runs.

Their pitching staff has two studs and Nate Robertson, who is a slightly better than league average starter. Beyond that, Mike Maroth (who was hurt for most of last year) posted a 4.74 ERA in his last complete season. He'll be 29 next year. Kenny Rogers is EXTREMELY old and already hurt. Andrew Miller is a good prospect but was unimpressive in his very short major league debut.

Zumaya is unbelievable. Rodney is pretty good. Todd Jones is a disaster waiting to happen. Last year Jones had 28 K in 64 IP. He'll be 39 this year.

Don't you see? This team has a few studs and a lot of players that can easily be disappointments. If Craig Monroe hits .230 instead of .250, he's a total hole in the Tiger's offense. If he hits .270, the other end of the range, he'll still be a marginal corner outfielder (hitting .255 he posted a 100 OPS+.)

The Tigers are a bunch of pumpkins-to-be that overly enjoyed their Cinderella dance.

Appendix:
This Year's Detroit Tigers Projected Starters 2006 OPS+:
C: Ivan Rodriguez - 98
1B: Sean Casey - 68
2B: Placido Polanco - 81
3B: Brandon Inge - 99
SS: Carlos Guillen - 137
LF: Craig Monroe - 100
CF: Curtis Granderson - 99
RF: Magglio Ordonez - 113
DH: Gary Sheffield - 112

WOW. That's one weak team. In comparison, the Yankees:
C: Posada - 127
1B: Mientkiewicz - 94
2B: Cano - 132
3B: Rodriguez - 140
SS: Jeter - 138
LF: Matsui - 133
CF: Damon - 120
RF: Abreu - 144
DH: Giambi - 154

Isn't the difference comical?

[donniesrecordholdsup]

I wish I had the ability to detect fluke teams and determine the future as well as you. Do you have a time machine or something?

hey i called the white sox being overated at the start of last season. and then they didnt even make the postseason last year.

but i know theyre still better then the 98 yanks iyo because they started off 1-0 and therefore led the division the whole season and somehow thats better then the 98 yanks because they started out 1-4

[donniesrecordholdsup]

Perhpas because they are the best team in the league. Their pitching staff is very very strong behind guys like Verlander and Bonderman who have big-time power arms, behind them they have some very reliable starters in Robertson and Rogers. Granted Kenny is out right now, but the thing about this team is they also have the depth in the minors to make them a powerhouse with young kids waiting in the wings like Tata and Andrew Miller. Their bullpen is unbelivably good with guys like Zumaya, Rodney, Ledezma, Jones, and hell even Grilli is a decent power arm to trot out of the pen.

Offensively they were already a very very well rounded team capable of beating you any way with bats like Granderson, Guillen, Magglio, Monroe, Inge, Polanco, and Pudge. Not only that, now they add a legitimate power threat in the middle of the lineup with Gary Sheffield. They play in a rough division, but talent wise they are the cream of the crop in every facet of the game. It is only natural for the media to jump on their bandwagon.

wow you sound like one of these media types im talking about. there is no way they are the best team in baseball.

[donniesrecordholdsup]

The Tigers are absolutely the most overrated team in baseball.

Is Justin Verlander a total stud? Yes. Are Bonderman and Zumaya? Absolutely.

Is Carlos Guillen a terrific, underrated hitter and shortstop? Definitely.

Beyond that, perhaps every single player on the Tigers is likely to have a worse season than they did last year. Outside of Guillen, the best/most accomplished offensive player on Detroit is Magglio Ordonez. Due to injuries, these are Magglio's HR totals for the past 3 year: 9, 8, 24. Meanwhile, Magglio will be 33 years this season and he hasn't had an OBP over .360 or a SLG over .485 since 2003. Gary Sheffield was injured for almost all of last season and his defense has become much worse as he's aged. There is absolutely no guarantee he's going to be the hitter he was on Atlanta or when he first came to the Yankees.

Ivan Rodriguez hit .300 last year... and had a .332 OBP. The year before he posted a .290 OBP. Ivan hasn't hit 20 HR since 2001. Given that IRod has played 1934 major league games at catcher, odds are he's going to continue his regression, too.

Craig Monroe has never had an OBP over .337 (it was .301 last year). He'll be 30 this season. Marcus Thames has never had an OBP over .333. These are CORNER OUTFIELDERS on the Tigers.

The only other offensive player that may improve is Curtis Granderson, who was pretty good at 25 - but still posted an OPS+ of under 100.

What does all this add up to? It adds up to an offense that WILL NOT score a ton of runs.

Their pitching staff has two studs and Nate Robertson, who is a slightly better than league average starter. Beyond that, Mike Maroth (who was hurt for most of last year) posted a 4.74 ERA in his last complete season. He'll be 29 next year. Kenny Rogers is EXTREMELY old and already hurt. Andrew Miller is a good prospect but was unimpressive in his very short major league debut.

Zumaya is unbelievable. Rodney is pretty good. Todd Jones is a disaster waiting to happen. Last year Jones had 28 K in 64 IP. He'll be 39 this year.

Don't you see? This team has a few studs and a lot of players that can easily be disappointments. If Craig Monroe hits .230 instead of .250, he's a total hole in the Tiger's offense. If he hits .270, the other end of the range, he'll still be a marginal corner outfielder (hitting .255 he posted a 100 OPS+.)

The Tigers are a bunch of pumpkins-to-be that overly enjoyed their Cinderella dance.

Appendix:
This Year's Detroit Tigers Projected Starters 2006 OPS+:
C: Ivan Rodriguez - 98
1B: Sean Casey - 68
2B: Placido Polanco - 81
3B: Brandon Inge - 99
SS: Carlos Guillen - 137
LF: Craig Monroe - 100
CF: Curtis Granderson - 99
RF: Magglio Ordonez - 113
DH: Gary Sheffield - 112

WOW. That's one weak team. In comparison, the Yankees:
C: Posada - 127
1B: Mientkiewicz - 94
2B: Cano - 132
3B: Rodriguez - 140
SS: Jeter - 138
LF: Matsui - 133
CF: Damon - 120
RF: Abreu - 144
DH: Giambi - 154

Isn't the difference comical?

exactly.

[Dog Named Fred]

hey i called the white sox being overated at the start of last season. and then they didnt even make the postseason last year.

Seriously? You called the white sox overrated at the start of last year? And that's why people should listen to you and not worry about the tigers even though the widely accepted consensus (and common sense) says otherwise. At the beginning of last year, they were a talented young team. This year, they lost nobody of significance except Kenny Rogers for a few months. They added Gary Sheffield. They have Sean Casey for a full season. Their young starters are a year older. They have two of the top starting pitching prospects ready to come up to the big leagues. And they've shown they can succeed in the postseason.

But you must be right. After all, last year you called the White Sox overrated and they only won 90 games despite their top starter, Buehrle, who is definitely not a one-year wonder, pitching like crap for much of the season.

[Rocketman]

Dog, I'd like for you to respond to my comment above. I'd like for you to refute my point described in detail above: that the Tigers have an average at-best offense with only one great hitter and a pitching staff reliant on two starting studs and one relief ace.

[BombersBlvd]

I love how, with the Yankees, the media basically characterized Sheffield as a very good hitting malcontent, cancer, detractor, etc. before he was traded, but now he's suddenly nothing less than an invaluable asset, the messiah dropped into what's now become the greatest lineup on earth. So what changed in 6 months?

[Rocketman]

At the end of 2005, Gary Sheffield was coming off of 14 consecutive seasons of 130 OPS+ or higher. Despite his age, Sheffield was still a total stud; in his "less than stellar" 2005, Sheffield hit 34 HR and knocked in 123 runs while hitting .291.

There are three reasons why Sheffield is no longer so highly valued:

#1) Sheffield got hurt last year. There's no guarantee he'll be exactly the same after recovering - or if his recovery will be total.

#2) The Tigers lineup is awful in comparison with the Yankees. Sheffield will have a lot less people to knock in and players to drive him in when on base.

#3) Gary Sheffield is 38 years old and isn't getting any younger. His SLG since 2003: .604, .534, .512, .450. His OBP since 2003: .419, .393, .379, .355. Notice any trends?

[NYDCYankee]

The Tigers are absolutely the most overrated team in baseball.

Is Justin Verlander a total stud? Yes. Are Bonderman and Zumaya? Absolutely.

Is Carlos Guillen a terrific, underrated hitter and shortstop? Definitely.

Beyond that, perhaps every single player on the Tigers is likely to have a worse season than they did last year. Outside of Guillen, the best/most accomplished offensive player on Detroit is Magglio Ordonez. Due to injuries, these are Magglio's HR totals for the past 3 year: 9, 8, 24. Meanwhile, Magglio will be 33 years this season and he hasn't had an OBP over .360 or a SLG over .485 since 2003. Gary Sheffield was injured for almost all of last season and his defense has become much worse as he's aged. There is absolutely no guarantee he's going to be the hitter he was on Atlanta or when he first came to the Yankees.

Ivan Rodriguez hit .300 last year... and had a .332 OBP. The year before he posted a .290 OBP. Ivan hasn't hit 20 HR since 2001. Given that IRod has played 1934 major league games at catcher, odds are he's going to continue his regression, too.

Craig Monroe has never had an OBP over .337 (it was .301 last year). He'll be 30 this season. Marcus Thames has never had an OBP over .333. These are CORNER OUTFIELDERS on the Tigers.

The only other offensive player that may improve is Curtis Granderson, who was pretty good at 25 - but still posted an OPS+ of under 100.

What does all this add up to? It adds up to an offense that WILL NOT score a ton of runs.

Their pitching staff has two studs and Nate Robertson, who is a slightly better than league average starter. Beyond that, Mike Maroth (who was hurt for most of last year) posted a 4.74 ERA in his last complete season. He'll be 29 next year. Kenny Rogers is EXTREMELY old and already hurt. Andrew Miller is a good prospect but was unimpressive in his very short major league debut.

Zumaya is unbelievable. Rodney is pretty good. Todd Jones is a disaster waiting to happen. Last year Jones had 28 K in 64 IP. He'll be 39 this year.

Don't you see? This team has a few studs and a lot of players that can easily be disappointments. If Craig Monroe hits .230 instead of .250, he's a total hole in the Tiger's offense. If he hits .270, the other end of the range, he'll still be a marginal corner outfielder (hitting .255 he posted a 100 OPS+.)

The Tigers are a bunch of pumpkins-to-be that overly enjoyed their Cinderella dance.

Appendix:
This Year's Detroit Tigers Projected Starters 2006 OPS+:
C: Ivan Rodriguez - 98
1B: Sean Casey - 68
2B: Placido Polanco - 81
3B: Brandon Inge - 99
SS: Carlos Guillen - 137
LF: Craig Monroe - 100
CF: Curtis Granderson - 99
RF: Magglio Ordonez - 113
DH: Gary Sheffield - 112

WOW. That's one weak team. In comparison, the Yankees:
C: Posada - 127
1B: Mientkiewicz - 94
2B: Cano - 132
3B: Rodriguez - 140
SS: Jeter - 138
LF: Matsui - 133
CF: Damon - 120
RF: Abreu - 144
DH: Giambi - 154

Isn't the difference comical?

And somehow last year they managed to reach the WS. Stats are decepitive.

[Cuban Connection]

hey i called the white sox being overated at the start of last season. and then they didnt even make the postseason last year.

but i know theyre still better then the 98 yanks iyo because they started off 1-0 and therefore led the division the whole season and somehow thats better then the 98 yanks because they started out 1-4

The White Sox were a 90 win team with a beat up pitching staff, 3 holes in the lineup and played in the toughest division, yet some how they were overrated?

[ring403]

And somehow last year they managed to reach the WS. Stats are decepitive.

Despite how things look on paper, there are still a whole lot of uncontrollable variables that come into play in baseball. To sum them all up in a word: luck.

[NYDCYankee]

Despite how things look on paper, there are still a whole lot of uncontrollable variables that come into play in baseball. To sum them all up in a word: luck.

Which is why baseball is great.

[Dog Named Fred]

Dog, I'd like for you to respond to my comment above. I'd like for you to refute my point described in detail above: that the Tigers have an average at-best offense with only one great hitter and a pitching staff reliant on two starting studs and one relief ace.

When you put together something resembling a thorough anaylsis, rather than the selective use of a handful of statistics, I'll gladly consider the possibility that a team that won the pennant last year actually added talent is so overrated.

Keep in mind a couple of things to consider in making your argument. If you're going to use trends, it's a little disingenuous to highlight Sheffield's, but then write off the players whose trends are moving upwards as having peaked last year. Furthermore, when you use argument's like Gary Sheffield's defense as proof that the Tigers are overrated, it makes those of us who are aware that Sheffield is going to be a DH not take your argument very seriously at all.

[jimmyclark]

People look into the future using rear view mirrors. But the Tigers did lead all of baseball last year in team ERA. An AL team doesn't do that very often. The AL Central has some good teams..the Tigers could finish anywhere from 1st to 4th with a very good team. I also think Leyland is too good of a manager to allow a sophomore slump.

[ColombiaYanksFan]

because pitching is underrated (thanks Cashman!)

[donniesrecordholdsup]

The White Sox were a 90 win team with a beat up pitching staff, 3 holes in the lineup and played in the toughest division, yet some how they were overrated?

yes because there were people saying they were one of the better ws champions ever and then they werent even dominant enough to make the postseason the next year.

[donniesrecordholdsup]

And somehow last year they managed to reach the WS. Stats are decepitive.

um, an 83 win cardinals team mananged to win the world series last season. what does that mean ?? that theyre a great team ?? nobody is even picking the cards to make the ws again but the tigers are the best team by far in baseball ?? thats laughable.

[donniesrecordholdsup]

Seriously? You called the white sox overrated at the start of last year? And that's why people should listen to you and not worry about the tigers even though the widely accepted consensus (and common sense) says otherwise. At the beginning of last year, they were a talented young team. This year, they lost nobody of significance except Kenny Rogers for a few months. They added Gary Sheffield. They have Sean Casey for a full season. Their young starters are a year older. They have two of the top starting pitching prospects ready to come up to the big leagues. And they've shown they can succeed in the postseason.

But you must be right. After all, last year you called the White Sox overrated and they only won 90 games despite their top starter, Buehrle, who is definitely not a one-year wonder, pitching like crap for much of the season.

im not saying listen to me but its obvious when certain teams are flukes. actually the chi sox werent even that bad. i think they were good, certainly better then the marlins or last years tigers but they started to get overated with people acting like they were one of the best teams ever and they were unbeatable in 06 and then they missed the postseason. and the marlins were an obvious fluke and so are last years tigers. its not at all common sense to think the tigers are the best team in baseball.

[Rocketman]

When you put together something resembling a thorough anaylsis, rather than the selective use of a handful of statistics, I'll gladly consider the possibility that a team that won the pennant last year actually added talent is so overrated.

Keep in mind a couple of things to consider in making your argument. If you're going to use trends, it's a little disingenuous to highlight Sheffield's, but then write off the players whose trends are moving upwards as having peaked last year. Furthermore, when you use argument's like Gary Sheffield's defense as proof that the Tigers are overrated, it makes those of us who are aware that Sheffield is going to be a DH not take your argument very seriously at all.

Are you still incapable of refuting anything that I said? Unless I do a baseball prospectus analysis of every single player (which would be pages upon pages upon pages long) I cannot do anything BUT "cherry-pick" certain stats.

Sheffield's trend is important PARTICULARLY because of his age. For players that might play better, like Granderson, I've noted that - but beyond Guillen, not a single hitter in the Tigers lineup is really threatening. Again: Magglio Ordonez posted a 113 OPS+ last year, and he was the Tigers second-best hitter.

I don't see how that could compare to a team like the Yankees, a team whose second "worst" starter had a 120 OPS+. The Red Sox are often compared to the Yankees, and although I laugh at that comparison (from an offensive standpoint) they do have two super-duper star sluggers and a few good hitters. The Tigers have one good hitter and a lot of mediocrity.

[Spiker101]

Perhpas because they are the best team in the league. Their pitching staff is very very strong behind guys like Verlander and Bonderman who have big-time power arms, behind them they have some very reliable starters in Robertson and Rogers. Granted Kenny is out right now, but the thing about this team is they also have the depth in the minors to make them a powerhouse with young kids waiting in the wings like Tata and Andrew Miller. Their bullpen is unbelivably good with guys like Zumaya, Rodney, Ledezma, Jones, and hell even Grilli is a decent power arm to trot out of the pen.

Offensively they were already a very very well rounded team capable of beating you any way with bats like Granderson, Guillen, Magglio, Monroe, Inge, Polanco, and Pudge. Not only that, now they add a legitimate power threat in the middle of the lineup with Gary Sheffield. They play in a rough division, but talent wise they are the cream of the crop in every facet of the game. It is only natural for the media to jump on their bandwagon.

They had a team OPS+ last year of 100; that's the definitiion of a mediocre offense, and while Sheff will help some, he's not going to be able to turn the Tigers into a good offense. Cleveland, Minnesota and the White Sox all have better offenses. And that's just in their division.

In Verlander and Bonderman they have two terrific young starters but young starters are often erratic from year to year.
In Verlander's case there is also a question about the jump in innings pitched from 130 or so in '05 to 186 last year. That's a major jump. Nate Robertson had a career year in '06; there's no certainy he won't revert to his career ERA+ of 97. Rogers is out for at least three months and at his age there's no guarantees he will be effective when he does get back. They have some talent ready to step in at the 4-5 spots but that's always dicey.
They have two terrific arms in the pen in Z and Rodney but after thare will be a lot of wishin' and hopin'

It's amazing to me that everyone is also forgetting that the Tigers' collapsed in the second half of '06 and it was a horrific collapse. It was only a two-week run in the playoffs that savaged their dignity. To say they have the best talent in the majors is ludicrous. The Yanks, Cleveland, Sox (both colors) and maybe the Twins all have as much or more talents.

[stupidpunchline]

They had a team OPS+ last year of 100; that's the definitiion of a mediocre offense, and while Sheff will help some, he's not going to be able to turn the Tigers into a good offense. Cleveland, Minnesota and the White Sox all have better offenses. And that's just in their division.

In Verlander and Bonderman they have two terrific young starters but young starters are often erratic from year to year.
In Verlander's case there is also a question about the jump in innings pitched from 130 or so in '05 to 186 last year. That's a major jump. Nate Robertson had a career year in '06; there's no certainy he won't revert to his career ERA+ of 97. Rogers is out for at least three months and at his age there's no guarantees he will be effective when he does get back. They have some talent ready to step in at the 4-5 spots but that's always dicey.
They have two terrific arms in the pen in Z and Rodney but after thare will be a lot of wishin' and hopin'

It's amazing to me that everyone is also forgetting that the Tigers' collapsed in the second half of '06 and it was a horrific collapse. It was only a two-week run in the playoffs that savaged their dignity. To say they have the best talent in the majors is ludicrous. The Yanks, Cleveland, Sox (both colors) and maybe the Twins all have as much or more talents.

I think you nailed it.

Also something that's not being considered... the Tigers are playing in what might be the deepest division in baseball. There could be 4 good to very good teams in the AL Central and they could end up all beating up on each other, meaning lower win totals and lower probability of the Wild Card coming out of that division.

[NYYFAN5388]

Cuz there in love with Sheff and Kenny Rogers even tho he's out for three months and he was loading the ball up last yr.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

The media is in love with them because last year they finished winning the wild card, knocking out the Yankees in the process, and went to the World Series after having a terrible season the year prior. Their starters in my opinion will be question marks though.

[RollingWave]

Their offense is junk, well rounded? what does that mean? that they can score in a lot of matters? like steal bases? last year they had a hilarious 60 SB to 40 CS, which is laughablly bad (in contrase, the "one diminsional" Yankee had 139 SB vs 35 CS, that's right, the Yankees stole more than twice as many bases while getting cought 5 less time.)

They struck out more than any team except the Indians and they walked less than everyone except the Mariners, that's usually a pretty bad combo when ur team K/bb is worse than the Royals and Tampa (a lot worse). sure they had pretty darn good pop last year which was the main reason they scored runs, they were the definition of homerun or bust offense ..and that's WELL ROUNDED??? and what's worse, is that it be hard to imagine Inge / Shelton / Monroe replicating those numbers (or Casey hitting that many in Shelton's absence) while Guillen and Maggilo's room to improve is marginal at best.

Verlander looked great, but his K/BB ratio was a mirror image of Brad Penny last year , and if you look at those two, you see a lot in common , both throws very hard, but doesnt strike out nearly as much as you would imagine, both have good control too. it is very likely that Verlander is better than Penny, but then again he might be the same thing. either way, there's a good chance for him to regress in ERA/WIN even if he improves periphal wise (which i think he will) let alone if he doesn't. remember last year we all thought D-train was going to abosalutely destroy the world? or Felix?

[JackTalkThai]

The Tigers are absolutely the most overrated team in baseball.

Is Justin Verlander a total stud? Yes. Are Bonderman and Zumaya? Absolutely.

Is Carlos Guillen a terrific, underrated hitter and shortstop? Definitely.

Beyond that, perhaps every single player on the Tigers is likely to have a worse season than they did last year. Outside of Guillen, the best/most accomplished offensive player on Detroit is Magglio Ordonez. Due to injuries, these are Magglio's HR totals for the past 3 year: 9, 8, 24. Meanwhile, Magglio will be 33 years this season and he hasn't had an OBP over .360 or a SLG over .485 since 2003. Gary Sheffield was injured for almost all of last season and his defense has become much worse as he's aged. There is absolutely no guarantee he's going to be the hitter he was on Atlanta or when he first came to the Yankees.

Ivan Rodriguez hit .300 last year... and had a .332 OBP. The year before he posted a .290 OBP. Ivan hasn't hit 20 HR since 2001. Given that IRod has played 1934 major league games at catcher, odds are he's going to continue his regression, too.

Craig Monroe has never had an OBP over .337 (it was .301 last year). He'll be 30 this season. Marcus Thames has never had an OBP over .333. These are CORNER OUTFIELDERS on the Tigers.

The only other offensive player that may improve is Curtis Granderson, who was pretty good at 25 - but still posted an OPS+ of under 100.

What does all this add up to?

It adds up to an offense that WILL NOT score a ton of runs.

Their pitching staff has two studs and Nate Robertson, who is a slightly better than league average starter. Beyond that, Mike Maroth (who was hurt for most of last year) posted a 4.74 ERA in his last complete season. He'll be 29 next year. Kenny Rogers is EXTREMELY old and already hurt. Andrew Miller is a good prospect but was unimpressive in his very short major league debut.

Zumaya is unbelievable. Rodney is pretty good. Todd Jones is a disaster waiting to happen. Last year Jones had 28 K in 64 IP. He'll be 39 this year.

Don't you see? This team has a few studs and a lot of players that can easily be disappointments. If Craig Monroe hits .230 instead of .250, he's a total hole in the Tiger's offense. If he hits .270, the other end of the range, he'll still be a marginal corner outfielder (hitting .255 he posted a 100 OPS+.)

The Tigers are a bunch of pumpkins-to-be that overly enjoyed their Cinderella dance.

Appendix:
This Year's Detroit Tigers Projected Starters 2006 OPS+:
C: Ivan Rodriguez - 98
1B: Sean Casey - 68
2B: Placido Polanco - 81
3B: Brandon Inge - 99
SS: Carlos Guillen - 137
LF: Craig Monroe - 100
CF: Curtis Granderson - 99
RF: Magglio Ordonez - 113
DH: Gary Sheffield - 112

WOW. That's one weak team. In comparison, the Yankees:
C: Posada - 127
1B: Mientkiewicz - 94
2B: Cano - 132
3B: Rodriguez - 140
SS: Jeter - 138
LF: Matsui - 133
CF: Damon - 120
RF: Abreu - 144
DH: Giambi - 154

Isn't the difference comical?

Yes the difference IS comical....as was this wonderfully clairvoyant post.


Maggs is on pace to win the AL MVP and may flirt with the triple crown.

Sheffield is third in the AL in homeruns.

Polanco is top 10 in batting average.

Granderson has more extra base hits than ARod.

The Tigers league the lead in offense and, as a team, hit over .300 for a month for the first time since 1956. And playing in arguably the biggest park in the league, they're also 4th in the majors in HR's.

All the while - Rogers is out, Zumaya is out, Rodney is out, Bonderman missed a handful of starts, Jones is pitching horrible, their bullpen is the worst in the majors...and yet they're still 9 or 10 games over .500.

What happens if they finally get healthy and clicking?!?!

Overrated? ...........Hardly.

[Jilali]

Wasn't there a thread like this about the Indians too?

[DontHateOnNumber2]

Sheffield is doing well for himself so far, congrats to him. I kind of have myself wondering what we'd be like had we retained him but then quickly force myself to hope that Bobby gets it clicking again.

[chanman7483]

Overrated? ...........Hardly.

Hindsight is 20/20

[knickfan23]

Hindsight is 20/20

The only thing is that the person who started this thread was on this same tip last year with Detroit. During the 06 season, he kept saying that they really werent that good. Even when they won the AL pennant, he still kept up the same rhetoric. Now, any team can have a bad World Series (see: 03 Yankees) and they weren't immune to it. But now this year, with all their pitching issues and playing in arguably the toughest division in baseball, they are 8 games over .500. Whatever they are doing has been effective for them.

[Cuban Connection]

Hindsight is 20/20

But until the numbers come out it's completely fair to shove misleading info down people's throats and make bold predictions and state them as facts?

[Mangycur]

Anyone see Sheff's freak out tonight against Cleveland? I just caught the tail-end of the report, but it looked like he broke his bat on a GO and tossed the handle back toward the ump. Then he was shown being restrained by Leyland and what looked to be half the Tigers.

I expect the spin to be that he just threw the bat in frustration and not purposely at the ump, but this might cost him some games.

[just-blaze]

Yes the difference IS comical....as was this wonderfully clairvoyant post.

All the while - Rogers is out, Zumaya is out, Rodney is out, Bonderman missed a handful of starts, Jones is pitching horrible, their bullpen is the worst in the majors...and yet they're still 9 or 10 games over .500.

What happens if they finally get healthy and clicking?!?!

Overrated? ...........Hardly.

Yankees fans have been saying this since APRIL.

Meanwhile, Todd Jones has blown another save. You guys are the opposite of last year. Good luck with that.

[yankeesAZ]

Anyone see Sheff's freak out tonight against Cleveland? I just caught the tail-end of the report, but it looked like he broke his bat on a GO and tossed the handle back toward the ump. Then he was shown being restrained by Leyland and what looked to be half the Tigers.

I expect the spin to be that he just threw the bat in frustration and not purposely at the ump, but this might cost him some games.

3 games and a promise from Sheff "to expose a conspiracy":

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

NEW YORK (AP) -- Detroit designated hitter Gary Sheffield and San Diego catcher Josh Bard were suspended for three games each by the commissioner's office Friday for confrontations with umpires the previous night.

Sheffield suggested to the Detroit Free Press that he would expose a "conspiracy" within the game if he is not cleared of wrongdoing."

"Once they see the tape, and they still suspend me, then we're going to talk about this conspiracy that's going on," he said. "If it ain't no conspiracy, then I shouldn't be suspended at all."

[JackTalkThai]

Yankees fans have been saying this since APRIL.

Meanwhile, Todd Jones has blown another save. You guys are the opposite of last year. Good luck with that.

Todd Jones is horrible. You'll never hear me argue otherwise. Even when he's pitching excellent from a statistical standpoint...he's more lucky than good. But only Detroit's bullpen is worse than last season. Detroit's starting pitching has been fine this year. Obviously losing Rodney and Zumaya has a lot to do with those horribly unattractive bullpen numbers.

But Rodney is set to come back in a day or two and Zumaya is due back in about a month. If those two (plus Kenny) are all back within the next month or so...adding those three on top of the league's best offense and you've got yourself a pretty good ball club and nowhere near the opposite of last season.

Reason being, Sheffield's addition to the lineup really has done wonders for Detroit's offense. Magglio would be the first to tell you that. All they need is for Rogers and Zoom to return somewhat healthy and as a team they will be far more dangerous than last season due to their improved play at the plate, which is an understatement.

And the Tiger's ace in the hole...Andrew Miller. If Roger's health continues to be a concern and/or Robertson and Maroth don't continue to improve their production on the mound...expect Miller to be called up and inserted into the rotation. His one MLB start this year was impressive to say the least (7 IP, O ER's) and his numbers thus far at AA Erie (0.58 ERA) are nothing short of eye-popping. The kid's ready.

[SubwayFanatic]

This team is very dangerous.

Their offense is explosive. Plus, could you imagine having to face the likes of Verlander and Bonderman in the playoffs? Yikes.

The Tigers are no joke.

[comiskey]

This team is very dangerous.

Their offense is explosive. Plus, could you imagine having to face the likes of Verlander and Bonderman in the playoffs? Yikes.

The Tigers are no joke.

When that offense falls back to Earth (and it will), they won't look so hot.