View Full Version : So who do you think is gone next year?
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 08:40 PM
Dont know if its been mentioned anywhere, but I just saw a clip of Arod postgame interview and it didn't sound like he was a guy who was confident he'd be back in NY. He said "I hope to be back and I hope the fans of NY, Cashman and the Boss want me back. Im committed to making this thing work."
It sounds as though he's leaving it up to Cashman. Thats my take anyways
wileedog
10-07-06, 08:41 PM
Then we'll have people hounding us for "Having a ridiculous payroll team and 'rebuilding'" just like how the Red Sox were hounded.
Beats the snot out of being 'hounded' for having our asses handed to us by the Tigers, and still having a 42 year old has been with a bad back slated as the number 3 or 4 starter next year.
Slioman
10-07-06, 08:43 PM
Beats the snot out of being 'hounded' for having our asses handed to us by the Tigers, and still having a 42 year old has been with a bad back slated as the number 3 or 4 starter next year.
True. I concede.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 08:43 PM
Ok, he deserves a pass (even though you & I know he'll be out by mid-week) because this is his first year with full control but what are we talking about with regards to "heading in the right direction." This is not the Cleveland Indians, it's the NYY and we just bowed out of the playoffs in a monumental upset. If anything, this team is about to change directions drastically.
The Yankees are a "now" team and when you build that primarily on offense, which runs hot and cold, you put your team a risk when they go in a hitting slump. If Cashman stays, he's got to become more creative like his counterparts and build this team from the inside out.
Don't talk to me if you're going to say things so ignorant. Cashman needs to get more creative? How about Cano, Wang, Melky, Abreu, and Bruney?
If you want to be part of the conversation say things that make sense. It takes time to rebuild a farm thats been pissed away by the Tampa Faction. Cashman is in that process. After his first year in control we have very talented young players that we havent had in a long time.
wileedog
10-07-06, 08:43 PM
That's fine, but bringing up guys early for the sake of breaking them in when you are going to need to shut them down doesn't accomplish that. I never said they need to go get old guys, but they also don't need to just treat their young guys willy nilly.
Agreed, and I'm not pushing to bring them up for the sake of doing it.
Just saying I wouldn't have a real problem with the Yankees taking some chances on not winning for a season or two to work in some young guys, if they are ready.
Cause what we're doing ain't working.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 08:44 PM
Then we'll have people hounding us for "Having a ridiculous payroll team and 'rebuilding'" just like how the Red Sox were hounded.
I doubt we'd fall apart like Boston, because unlike them Cashman is smart enough not to rush guys up who aren't close to being ready (Delcarmen, Hansen, Pedroia)
CalYankeeFan
10-07-06, 08:45 PM
Let people say "$200 million payroll" all they want, all offseason if we win. I'd bask in it. I wouldn't give a ................. We'd still have a ring.
Yep - we'll hear a lot about the $200 million payroll now too. Funny thing is - we'll also hear about how money can't buy championships - then when the Yankees do win another won - we will have bought the championship.
Shaun4013
10-07-06, 08:45 PM
If Cashman wants to get creative how about he talk to Joe about resigning or fire him? Cashman did a great job this year, despite Joe's boneheaded moves. Cash is not to blame here, Joe and the players are.
cmaff05
10-07-06, 08:45 PM
I don't want the rotation to be built around Hughes or Clippard. Because relying on young kids who haven't even got out of AA ball is not in the best interests of the Yankees at the start of 2007. Have a good 5 man rotation going into spring training - and if any injuries happen, you bring up Hughes and Clippard.
And please, no Jaret Wright.
Eventhough we lost in the 1st round, I think Cashman did a great job.
wileedog
10-07-06, 08:48 PM
I don't want the rotation to be built around Hughes or Clippard. Because relying on young kids who haven't even got out of AA ball is not in the best interests of the Yankees at the start of 2007. Have a good 5 man rotation going into spring training - and if any injuries happen, you bring up Hughes and Clippard.
And please, no Jaret Wright.
Yeah, but I'm at the point that I don't want us to go out and spend a bazillion dollars on a ZIto or Matsuzaka either. Free agency, across numerous sports, is a total mixed bag. So many players just get that big contract, and then put out performances like the Yanks the last 3 games. Enough.
Get a bunch of money off the books, sign some middle tier guys and wait until the kids are ready. If we lose, so be it. At least we will have done it without being on the hook to a bunch of guys for the next 5 years for mediocre performance.
AlbanyColonieYankee
10-07-06, 08:49 PM
Ok, he deserves a pass (even though you & I know he'll be out by mid-week) because this is his first year with full control but what are we talking about with regards to "heading in the right direction." This is not the Cleveland Indians, it's the NYY and we just bowed out of the playoffs in a monumental upset. If anything, this team is about to change directions drastically.
The Yankees are a "now" team and when you build that primarily on offense, which runs hot and cold, you put your team a risk when they go in a hitting slump. If Cashman stays, he's got to become more creative like his counterparts and build this team from the inside out.
The fact is, Cashman tried to change the philosophy somewhat but you can't do that in one season. Bad signings that were made prior to this year are not just going to go away. In the next couple of years, as some of these contracts (like Randy Johnson's, for example) start to fall off the roster, and good prospects who were not traded away start to come up, then you will begin to see more of a difference.
BronxBombers2005
10-07-06, 08:52 PM
Jeter can go too. The whole ................ing situation needs to be changed. There is a bad karma going around during the postseason. and that comes right from the captain. I know it won't happen, but it should.
WOW ARE YOU KIDDING RIGHT NOW????????????????? Please tell me if you are??? BECAUSE YOU ARE REALLY STUPID. Yea lets trade a guy that has helped us get 4 rings..............sounds good to me, oh yea and the best player to be seen in october sense jackson.
I know we are all mad and hurt right now, but come on people talking about trading Cano and jeter, thats just stupid.
CalYankeeFan
10-07-06, 08:54 PM
The fact is, Cashman tried to change the philosophy somewhat but you can't do that in one season. Bad signings that were made prior to this year are not just going to go away. In the next couple of years, as some of these contracts (like Randy Johnson's, for example) start to fall off the roster, and good prospects who were not traded away start to come up, then you will begin to see more of a difference.
Exactly - I think Cashman will bring back the championships....it's going to take at least another offseason or two until the Tampa crap is flushed away.
Lawnmower
10-07-06, 08:55 PM
Don't talk to me if you're going to say things so ignorant. Cashman needs to get more creative? How about Cano, Wang, Melky, Abreu, and Bruney?
If you want to be part of the conversation say things that make sense. It takes time to rebuild a farm thats been pissed away by the Tampa Faction. Cashman is in that process. After his first year in control we have very talented young players that we havent had in a long time.
And I'm just saying, we need to see more of it. For every name listed above, I can give you plenty of busts he has imported in for the quick fix. Cash is not allowed to have it both ways. You can't give him credit for the good moves and then say the Tampa faction is to blame for all the bad ones.
And Abreu? I wouldn't include a Philadelphia salary dump in which you had to also take Lidle as an example of his creativity.
yank4life2005
10-07-06, 08:57 PM
Yes, like every single middle infield prospect ever, Cano started out as a SS. But, even at 18 and in his first season, he spent the majority of time at 2B. You don't move a guy off the stronger position at that young an age unless you really need to, and with Cano they needed to. He's played a few games at third too, but didn't stick. Look, if you move Cano off of a position that he can play to one that he is largely unfamiliar with and one that plays very, very differently, I think you run a huge risk of harming his game. It just doesn't seem worth it.
As for the money issue, I again have to ask how its any different? Right now, if you trade ARod, you trade Texas' money with him. That means that the team getting him gets him for exactly the same price the Yankees got him for. The only way to get better players is to include more money on top of the Texas money.
I see your point with Cano but with his arm strength and soft hands I think he can make the transition easily to 3B as what scouts projected him to be regardless of their reasons.
If NY kicks in 5MM a season and turns NY's committment from 16MM to 11MM then there would be a bigger market for A-Rod but only he can dictate where he would go. The more money NY kicks in then the better players the Yankees will get.
yankees246
10-07-06, 09:10 PM
6. Alex Rodriguez.... I love him, I have always supported him, I think he is one of the GREATEST players to ever play the game... but he is never going to succeed in New York with the Yankee fans CONSTANTLY ripping him.
I don't want him to be traded either, I still think he can be successful in NY, but I don' t think he'll get another chance from the media or the fans. I have to totally agree. :(
South Facing Epitaph
10-07-06, 09:11 PM
The Yankees made their bed, littered it with with awful contracts, invited some aging sluggers, a bunch of terrible pitchers and guys who can't get it done in the post season, and now they have to sleep in it.
NYIndian2005
10-07-06, 09:26 PM
Trade ARod for a stud pitcher and a good first baseman. Pass on Sheffield and Moose and replace them with another stud pitcher. DH Giambi. I don't want to see Sheffield and ARod in a yankee uniform again. They give me the creeps and only remind me of bad things that happened to the yankees.
The starting rotation must be two good pitchers we traded for followed by Wang, RJ. Maybe just maybe we will be back in the postseason next year to challenge and this time for real.
Oh yea and please learn to play small ball between now and then.
nygfan07
10-07-06, 09:27 PM
I am hoping that Pavano will become incredibly interested in science or math and never return to baseball.
In the 06' playoffs.....
We would have been better off:
3B: Bubba Crosby
Instead of:
A-Rod
How about:
Steve Sax (I know he never pitched but at least he's not Jared Wright.)
Instead of:
Jared Wright
How bout:
Alvaro Espinoza (name another SS that can also be an inning eater)
Instead of:
Randy Johnson the abominal mullet.
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:29 PM
Zito and Matsuzaka are young and Zito's durable, never on the DL. Get them in NY for a year before Hughes and Clippard are ready to go a full season in 2008. Add Wang to the mix and we're set in the pitching department.
Keep Bruney, Proctor and Farnsworth together, mixed in with another up-and-coming reliever via trade. Bring Cox and Beam along.
Position players should be getting younger with Cano and Melky and possibly trading AROD for someone like Kendrick or Betemit. Tabata's on the way.
Get young and cheap, fast and furious. That's all I want to see. I don't want to see primadonna's nursing injuries and ailments all season long and napping in the playoffs because they're completely spent. These younger teams have owned us in recent Octobers...Anahiem, Florida, Anaheim again, now Detroit.
Youth movement is what we need. I trust Cashman.
metalboy15
10-07-06, 09:29 PM
I've not given up on Farnsworth, I think he can be a very valuable member of our team next year. But he's gotta pitch better than he did this year. And we definitely need another setup man to go along with Farnsworth.
And oh yea, we need a manager who isn't going to kill them by the end of the year.
J.B. Cox could emerge as the other setup man.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:32 PM
And I'm just saying, we need to see more of it. For every name listed above, I can give you plenty of busts he has imported in for the quick fix. Cash is not allowed to have it both ways. You can't give him credit for the good moves and then say the Tampa faction is to blame for all the bad ones.
And Abreu? I wouldn't include a Philadelphia salary dump in which you had to also take Lidle as an example of his creativity.
Try me. Tell me the "busts" and then tell me a better option that was available. If Cashman has brought in bad players it was because there was no better room, he had no flexibility to do otherwise because of all the huge contracts signed by the Tamap Faction, or because his moves were pushed away so Stein could make his own (Vladimir Guerrero ring a bell?)
The Abreu deal was much more than a dump. We got a frontline right fielder plus a better 5th starter than we'd had all year for virtually nothing. A middle reliever and a few prospects no one was gushing over. And that move won the division for us... if that means anything to you.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:33 PM
I am hoping that Pavano will become incredibly interested in science or math and never return to baseball.
In the 06' playoffs.....
We would have been better off:
3B: Bubba Crosby
Instead of:
A-Rod
How about:
Steve Sax (I know he never pitched but at least he's not Jared Wright.)
Instead of:
Jared Wright
How bout:
Alvaro Espinoza (name another SS that can also be an inning eater)
Instead of:
Randy Johnson the abominal mullet.
What are you talkin about?
GimeMoMuny
10-07-06, 09:33 PM
Yea lets trade a guy that has helped us get 4 rings..............sounds good to me, oh yea and the best player to be seen in october sense jackson.
I know we are all mad and hurt right now, but come on people talking about trading Cano and jeter, thats just stupid.Jeter's not gonna be traded, but ................ him. He's had some personal vendetta against A-Rod that he was incapable of sucking up for the team's sake. He's just as much of a pris as A-Rod to me.
SportzStooge007
10-07-06, 09:34 PM
Okay, here's my complete analysis of what needs to be done.
STARTING ROTATION
Okay. Mike Mussina needs to get resigned. There's your first move. Your second move is to see if Randy Johnson wants to go another season. Johnson is not getting any younger, and his consistency and health are major factors. If he wants to come back, I would gladly invite him back. Remember, you can never have enough pitching.
Next, I'd let Jaret Wright go, whichever way possible - especially if both Johnson and Mussina return. He's a five and dive guy, can't rely on him to do well in tough spots. Just look at today's start. He couldn't get out of the 3rd inning! There's no way to rid yourself of Carl Pavano realistically, so you keep him and see what he can do. If he's healthy, he can be a decent starter. So why not.
Barry Zito is far too expensive to consider, and if the A's beat the Tigers in the ALCS, they'd be stupid not to pursue Zito aggresively. Matsuzaka would be an excellent acquisation, and it definitely needs to get made. I definitely see him in pinstripes.
Karstens and Rasner earned a good look during Spring Training for a spot in the rotation, while it would be wise to give Phillip Hughes, Steven White and Tyler Clippard more time to develop in the minor leagues.
And there's no really good reason to resign Cory Lidle. Aaron Small will probably come back to the Majors as well.
Okay, so here's my mock rotation:
1. Chien-Ming Wang
2. Daisuke Matsuzaka
3. Mike Mussina
4. Randy Johnson/Karstens/Rasner/Pavano
5. Karstens/Rasner/Pavano/Small
BULLPEN
Okay, there are a lot of really good things and really bad things to say here.
Ron Villone is the latest victim of Torre's infamous misuse of his bullpen. He'll likely be dropped.
Mike Myers is not desperately needed or desperately has to leave.
Scott Proctor was excellent, and Kyle Farnsworth needs work, but can get the job done.
Rivera is wonderful, but if I were the Yankees, I'd begin to prepare a replacement for him.
Jesus Colome, Aaron Small, and Ramiro Mendoza will probably come to the Majors, and Octavio Dotel will be resigned to help out Proctor. Perhaps Dotel can close a few games for Rivera?
Here's my mock bullpen:
Long Relief: Aaron Small, Colter Bean, Jose Veras, others.
Middle Relief: Mendoza, Colome
Set-up: Dotel, Brian Bruney, Proctor, Farnsworth
Closer: Rivera, Dotel
That's about ten guys in the bullpen. But, hey, I'm not here to do math.
POSITIONAL PLAYERS
We have a lot of talent, but a lot of room for change. One big deal can completely change the starting rotation for the better, while the offense can be compensated for.
One huge example: Alex Rodriguez. An A+ althlete, but just cannot get it done. It's really hard to trade a guy like Rodriguez, and the Yankees know this.
But if a good enough deal comes around for, let's say a pitcher like Dontrelle Willis, or Barry Zito - who knows?
I think whatever we do, we need to start to phase out the vets, and make room for the youngsters like Cabrera, Phillips and others. If that means trading Rodriguez - so be it.
I think they should resign Sheffield for a one year deal - don't pick up that ridiculous option. Play him at first base, and move Phillips to second base. Move Cano to third and trade Rodriguez for some minor leaguers and some good solid, young pitching.
Here are two lineups, one if I were GM, another with what I will expect from the Yankees:
IF I WERE GM/MANAGER:
1. Melky Cabrera - LF
2. Johnny Damon - CF
3. Derek Jeter - SS
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Bobby Abreu - RF
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 3B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Andy Phillips - 2B
Reserves: Gary Sheffield, 1B/DH/RF; other random utility guys
WHAT PROBABLY WILL HAPPEN:
1. Johnny Damon - CF
2. Derek Jeter - SS
3. Bobby Abreu - RF
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Alex Rodriguez - 3B
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 2B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Melky Cabrera - LF
Reserves: Andy Phillips, 1B; random utlity men
MANAGEMENT AND MISC.
One would believe that Joe Torre's tenure with the Yankees is up - especially with Lou Pinnela, Joe Girardi on the market, and Don Mattingly and Lee Mazalli already in the clubhouse. If I were the GM I would fire him. And I'm sure George Steinbrenner would fire him. But he isn't running the show anymore. Brian Cashman is. And he doesn't like to jump the gun.
I don't expect any big incoming moves in the offseason - right now we're in 'selling' mode as opposed to our usual 'buying' selves. If there is a big move, it'll involve A-Rod, and it'll also include a pitcher and minor leaguers.
cmaff05
10-07-06, 09:35 PM
J.B. Cox could emerge as the other setup man.
Very true. I see him being a middle reliever when he gets up at first.. but he could emerge as a setup man. This is why I think Dotel needs to be offered a contract.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:37 PM
Jeter's not gonna be traded, but ................ him. He's had some personal vendetta against A-Rod that he was incapable of sucking up for the team's sake. He's just as much of a pris as A-Rod to me.
Eff Jeter? Jeter has never put anything personal ahead of his team and thats fact. Any failures of Arod are no fault of Jeter and the fact that you'd say eff Jeter is beyond stupid. Arod builds himself up in the media, makes excuses for himself in the media, he TRASHED JETER in the media. Give me a break. Jeter has never said anything about anyone in the media and thats the way it should be.
got23hops
10-07-06, 09:37 PM
why are there so many RETARTED yankee fans, seriously, i am embarassed that I associate myself with some of you...
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:39 PM
why are there so many RETARTED yankee fans, seriously, i am embarassed that I associate myself with some of you...
Then why'd you join? There are many of us who get upset with the comments of some posters, but you need to learn to voice your opinion in a more mature manner if you want anyone to pay attention to what you have to say.
Also, before you accuse others of having lesser mental capabilities in bold letters, learn to spell.
WOW ARE YOU KIDDING RIGHT NOW????????????????? Please tell me if you are??? BECAUSE YOU ARE REALLY STUPID. Yea lets trade a guy that has helped us get 4 rings..............sounds good to me, oh yea and the best player to be seen in october sense jackson.
I know we are all mad and hurt right now, but come on people talking about trading Cano and jeter, thats just stupid.
Yeah, lets get rid of the likely 2006 AL MVP. We're almost done running the 2005 AL MVP out of town.
Seriously, who is dumber, Steinbrenner or some of these so-called Yankee fans.
cmaff05
10-07-06, 09:40 PM
Karstens and Rasner earned a good look during Spring Training for a spot in the rotation, while it would be wise to give Phillip Hughes, Steven White and Tyler Clippard more time to develop in the minor leagues.
If we have Karstens or Rasner in our rotation as a fifth starter, we really haven't learned much. Those are no the type of pitchers who should be on a Yankee rotation if we have any hope of having a top-flight rotation. One of those guys can be a long man. That's it though.
And there's no really good reason to resign Cory Lidle. Aaron Small will probably come back to the Majors as well.
No Corey Lidle. Aaron Small will come back to the majors as a ball boy.
Scott Proctor was excellent, and Kyle Farnsworth needs work, but can get the job done.
Scott Proctor has no guarentee of repeating this year's performance. He shouldn't be counted as anything but a middle reliever at this point.
Jesus Colome, Aaron Small, and Ramiro Mendoza will probably come to the Majors, and Octavio Dotel will be resigned to help out Proctor. Perhaps Dotel can close a few games for Rivera?
Those guys are all has-beens (except Dotel) and have no place in the majors. And Dotel should be offered a contract.
destiNY
10-07-06, 09:41 PM
We need some big time pitching and that means making big time moves...I'd trade any batter except for Cano, Posada and Jeter for front line pitching.
I really think Arod cannot succeed here, I've had his back all year saying that he will come through and he is just lost. I wonder if we could trade Arod to the Dodgers for Billingsley and Betemit.
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:41 PM
Very true. I see him being a middle reliever when he gets up at first.. but he could emerge as a setup man. This is why I think Dotel needs to be offered a contract.
agree/disagree
Cox will be a middle reliever for a 2-3 years at least
But Dotel should not be re-signed. He's damaged goods and I'm sick of bringing in players with recent severe injuries. Injuries AND ailments have killed this team. From Kevin Brown to Jaret Wright to Carl Pavano to Randy Johnson to Gary Sheffield....
GimeMoMuny
10-07-06, 09:42 PM
Eff Jeter? Jeter has never put anything personal ahead of his team and thats fact. Any failures of Arod are no fault of Jeter and the fact that you'd say eff Jeter is beyond stupid. Arod builds himself up in the media, makes excuses for himself in the media, he TRASHED JETER in the media. Give me a break. Jeter has never said anything about anyone in the media and thats the way it should be.I'm upset with the way both of them handled things and I'll leave it at that.
And don't use the word stupid when you quote my posts.
got23hops
10-07-06, 09:42 PM
hey brosius,
before you go getting your 'knickers in a twist' realize that i'm on your side of the ball on this, in fact, i am responding to the same comment you did in your previous post. the fact of the matter is that anyone that blames jeter for any of our problems, really isn't with it. i like your posts, and i really didnt mean to get you fired up, its just silly to put these problems on our franchise player
Okay, here's my complete analysis of what needs to be done.
STARTING ROTATION
Okay. Mike Mussina needs to get resigned. There's your first move. Your second move is to see if Randy Johnson wants to go another season. Johnson is not getting any younger, and his consistency and health are major factors. If he wants to come back, I would gladly invite him back. Remember, you can never have enough pitching.
Next, I'd let Jaret Wright go, whichever way possible - especially if both Johnson and Mussina return. He's a five and dive guy, can't rely on him to do well in tough spots. Just look at today's start. He couldn't get out of the 3rd inning! There's no way to rid yourself of Carl Pavano realistically, so you keep him and see what he can do. If he's healthy, he can be a decent starter. So why not.
Barry Zito is far too expensive to consider, and if the A's beat the Tigers in the ALCS, they'd be stupid not to pursue Zito aggresively. Matsuzaka would be an excellent acquisation, and it definitely needs to get made. I definitely see him in pinstripes.
Karstens and Rasner earned a good look during Spring Training for a spot in the rotation, while it would be wise to give Phillip Hughes, Steven White and Tyler Clippard more time to develop in the minor leagues.
And there's no really good reason to resign Cory Lidle. Aaron Small will probably come back to the Majors as well.
Okay, so here's my mock rotation:
1. Chien-Ming Wang
2. Daisuke Matsuzaka
3. Mike Mussina
4. Randy Johnson/Karstens/Rasner/Pavano
5. Karstens/Rasner/Pavano/Small
BULLPEN
Okay, there are a lot of really good things and really bad things to say here.
Ron Villone is the latest victim of Torre's infamous misuse of his bullpen. He'll likely be dropped.
Mike Myers is not desperately needed or desperately has to leave.
Scott Proctor was excellent, and Kyle Farnsworth needs work, but can get the job done.
Rivera is wonderful, but if I were the Yankees, I'd begin to prepare a replacement for him.
Jesus Colome, Aaron Small, and Ramiro Mendoza will probably come to the Majors, and Octavio Dotel will be resigned to help out Proctor. Perhaps Dotel can close a few games for Rivera?
Here's my mock bullpen:
Long Relief: Aaron Small, Colter Bean, Jose Veras, others.
Middle Relief: Mendoza, Colome
Set-up: Dotel, Brian Bruney, Proctor, Farnsworth
Closer: Rivera, Dotel
That's about ten guys in the bullpen. But, hey, I'm not here to do math.
POSITIONAL PLAYERS
We have a lot of talent, but a lot of room for change. One big deal can completely change the starting rotation for the better, while the offense can be compensated for.
One huge example: Alex Rodriguez. An A+ althlete, but just cannot get it done. It's really hard to trade a guy like Rodriguez, and the Yankees know this.
But if a good enough deal comes around for, let's say a pitcher like Dontrelle Willis, or Barry Zito - who knows?
I think whatever we do, we need to start to phase out the vets, and make room for the youngsters like Cabrera, Phillips and others. If that means trading Rodriguez - so be it.
I think they should resign Sheffield for a one year deal - don't pick up that ridiculous option. Play him at first base, and move Phillips to second base. Move Cano to third and trade Rodriguez for some minor leaguers and some good solid, young pitching.
Here are two lineups, one if I were GM, another with what I will expect from the Yankees:
IF I WERE GM/MANAGER:
1. Melky Cabrera - LF
2. Johnny Damon - CF
3. Derek Jeter - SS
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Bobby Abreu - RF
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 3B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Andy Phillips - 2B
Reserves: Gary Sheffield, 1B/DH/RF; other random utility guys
WHAT PROBABLY WILL HAPPEN:
1. Johnny Damon - CF
2. Derek Jeter - SS
3. Bobby Abreu - RF
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Alex Rodriguez - 3B
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 2B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Melky Cabrera - LF
Reserves: Andy Phillips, 1B; random utlity men
MANAGEMENT AND MISC.
One would believe that Joe Torre's tenure with the Yankees is up - especially with Lou Pinnela, Joe Girardi on the market, and Don Mattingly and Lee Mazalli already in the clubhouse. If I were the GM I would fire him. And I'm sure George Steinbrenner would fire him. But he isn't running the show anymore. Brian Cashman is. And he doesn't like to jump the gun.
I don't expect any big incoming moves in the offseason - right now we're in 'selling' mode as opposed to our usual 'buying' selves. If there is a big move, it'll involve A-Rod, and it'll also include a pitcher and minor leaguers.
I disagree with most of what you said but it was still an interesting read
I think in all the places you said Andy Phillips, Eric Duncan's name should be replaced. He hasn't been dynamite in the minors but Andy Phillips isn't the next Pujols neither and Duncan WAS our prized prospect. He's done good in Spring Training so I say call him and see how he does.
I don't really want Matsuzaka, and I do want Zito but at the same time I don't wanna pay 80 million for Zito or something ridiculous like he will get.
I wouldn't mind getting Andy Pettitte back, but like you I wanna start a youth movement as well, so its kinda going against my ultimate goal. I just feel comfortable with Pettitte, I wish we never let him go
Same with Clemens, I want to start bringing these young guys in but if we have a chance to get Clemens I dont think I could say no.
I wouldn't trade A-rod but I may trade Melky. The thing is Melky will probably be our 4th OF, and he deserves a starting spot somewhere. His talent would be wasted on the bench, and if he can bring a strong pitcher then I think we should look into that. I think Kevin Thomson could fill in as the 4th OF for a season or two, he may turn into the next Melky?
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:44 PM
We need some big time pitching and that means making big time moves...I'd trade any batter except for Cano, Posada and Jeter for front line pitching.
I really think Arod cannot succeed here, I've had his back all year saying that he will come through and he is just lost. I wonder if we could trade Arod to the Dodgers for Billingsley and Betemit.
Betemit yes. Billingsly no. But I'd like to see what Betemit can do and I'd like to see Cashman put that 16 million to better use.
Slioman
10-07-06, 09:44 PM
Okay, here's my complete analysis of what needs to be done.
STARTING ROTATION
Okay. Mike Mussina needs to get resigned. There's your first move. Your second move is to see if Randy Johnson wants to go another season. Johnson is not getting any younger, and his consistency and health are major factors. If he wants to come back, I would gladly invite him back. Remember, you can never have enough pitching.
I'm a little against bringing Mussina back, fearing that he may not keep his level of production, but with this thin market he'll do.
Next, I'd let Jaret Wright go, whichever way possible - especially if both Johnson and Mussina return. He's a five and dive guy, can't rely on him to do well in tough spots. Just look at today's start. He couldn't get out of the 3rd inning! There's no way to rid yourself of Carl Pavano realistically, so you keep him and see what he can do. If he's healthy, he can be a decent starter. So why not.
I'd like to see Wright stay in the 'pen. He could do some work out of there but I then fear of Ponson ver. 2.
Barry Zito is far too expensive to consider, and if the A's beat the Tigers in the ALCS, they'd be stupid not to pursue Zito aggresively. Matsuzaka would be an excellent acquisation, and it definitely needs to get made. I definitely see him in pinstripes.
Zito may be expensive but he is durable and could be a decent mid-rotation guy. I agree with your Matz take though.
Karstens and Rasner earned a good look during Spring Training for a spot in the rotation, while it would be wise to give Phillip Hughes, Steven White and Tyler Clippard more time to develop in the minor leagues.
I'm not sure how good Rasner and Karstens will look but we'll see how good their stuff turns out.
And there's no really good reason to resign Cory Lidle. Aaron Small will probably come back to the Majors as well.
Aaron Small was considered a career minor leaguer and I think he had a fluke season. He's old and I doubt he'll be effective in the bigs again.
Okay, so here's my mock rotation:
1. Chien-Ming Wang
2. Daisuke Matsuzaka
3. Mike Mussina
4. Randy Johnson/Karstens/Rasner/Pavano
5. Karstens/Rasner/Pavano/Small
I'd like a
1) Chien
2) Matz
3) Zito
4) Mussina
5) Johnson
That way we get Johnson and Mussina out of the way next year and we have room for Hughes and other likesuch.
BULLPEN
Okay, there are a lot of really good things and really bad things to say here.
Ron Villone is the latest victim of Torre's infamous misuse of his bullpen. He'll likely be dropped.
We should try and persue one of the various 'pen FAs this year to replace Villone if he is dropped.
Mike Myers is not desperately needed or desperately has to leave.
I'd like to see him dropped.
Scott Proctor was excellent, and Kyle Farnsworth needs work, but can get the job done.
Agreed. I think with some work Farnsy could be a great pitcher. He has the stuff.
Rivera is wonderful, but if I were the Yankees, I'd begin to prepare a replacement for him.
Cox could fill the gap. Not sure, tho.
Jesus Colome, Aaron Small, and Ramiro Mendoza will probably come to the Majors, and Octavio Dotel will be resigned to help out Proctor. Perhaps Dotel can close a few games for Rivera?
I agree with Dotel but I'm not sure with Colome, Small, or Mendoza.
Here's my mock bullpen:
Long Relief: Aaron Small, Colter Bean, Jose Veras, others.
Middle Relief: Mendoza, Colome
Set-up: Dotel, Brian Bruney, Proctor, Farnsworth
Closer: Rivera, Dotel
Long: Karstens/Rasner for me.
That's about ten guys in the bullpen. But, hey, I'm not here to do math.
Math ain't my forte either.
POSITIONAL PLAYERS
We have a lot of talent, but a lot of room for change. One big deal can completely change the starting rotation for the better, while the offense can be compensated for.
One huge example: Alex Rodriguez. An A+ althlete, but just cannot get it done. It's really hard to trade a guy like Rodriguez, and the Yankees know this.
But if a good enough deal comes around for, let's say a pitcher like Dontrelle Willis, or Barry Zito - who knows?
I wouldn't do that trade >_>;;
I think whatever we do, we need to start to phase out the vets, and make room for the youngsters like Cabrera, Phillips and others. If that means trading Rodriguez - so be it.
Do we have any good 3Bs down there? How good is Vechionacci?
I think they should resign Sheffield for a one year deal - don't pick up that ridiculous option. Play him at first base, and move Phillips to second base. Move Cano to third and trade Rodriguez for some minor leaguers and some good solid, young pitching.
I say drop Sheff, Matsui to 1st.
Here are two lineups, one if I were GM, another with what I will expect from the Yankees:
IF I WERE GM/MANAGER:
1. Melky Cabrera - LF
2. Johnny Damon - CF
3. Derek Jeter - SS
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Bobby Abreu - RF
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 3B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Andy Phillips - 2B
Reserves: Gary Sheffield, 1B/DH/RF; other random utility guys
WHAT PROBABLY WILL HAPPEN:
1. Johnny Damon - CF
2. Derek Jeter - SS
3. Bobby Abreu - RF
4. Jason Giambi - 1B
5. Alex Rodriguez - 3B
6. Hideki Matsui - DH
7. Robinson Cano - 2B
8. Jorge Posada - C
9. Melky Cabrera - LF
Reserves: Andy Phillips, 1B; random utlity men
1B: Matsui
2B: Cano
3B: A-Rod
SS: DJ
LF: Melkman
CF: Damon
RF: Abreu
That is how I'd like to see it. Not sure on the arrangement though.
MANAGEMENT AND MISC.
One would believe that Joe Torre's tenure with the Yankees is up - especially with Lou Pinnela, Joe Girardi on the market, and Don Mattingly and Lee Mazalli already in the clubhouse. If I were the GM I would fire him. And I'm sure George Steinbrenner would fire him. But he isn't running the show anymore. Brian Cashman is. And he doesn't like to jump the gun.
I've never been a Torre fan.
I don't expect any big incoming moves in the offseason - right now we're in 'selling' mode as opposed to our usual 'buying' selves. If there is a big move, it'll involve A-Rod, and it'll also include a pitcher and minor leaguers.
No opinion.
Phew. You made a long post there ^^;;
why are there so many RETARTED yankee fans, seriously, i am embarassed that I associate myself with some of you...
retarD
got23hops
10-07-06, 09:45 PM
retarD
thanks
YankeesRule51
10-07-06, 09:46 PM
Here's what I think if I was Brian Cashman.
TOSS
Torre
Sheffield
Giambi
Pavano
Craig Wilson
A-Rod
RJ
Wright
Re-Sign
Bernie
Mussina
MY DREAM ROTATION
Mussina
Wang
Zito
Vasquez
Pettitte
New Manager: Lou Pinella
MY DREAM LINE-UP
Johnny Damon CF
Derek Jeter SS
Albert Pujols 1B
Hideki Matsui LF
Jorge Posada C
Bobby Abreu RF
Robb Quinlan 1B
Bernie Williams DH
Robinson Cano 2B
CalYankeeFan
10-07-06, 09:46 PM
I am hoping that Pavano will become incredibly interested in science or math and never return to baseball.
Well, he should have a pretty good understanding of biology and medicine right now.
and btw
CALL UP MATT SMITH FOR GOOD
sign JC ROMERO
and that takes care of Myers/Villone
I think Villone did a great job this year up until Torre destroyed his arm but I think his overusage will carry over to 2007
cmaff05
10-07-06, 09:47 PM
Here's what I think if I was Brian Cashman.
MY DREAM ROTATION
Mussina
Wang
Zito
Vasquez
Pettitte
:roflmao:
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:48 PM
hey brosius,
before you go getting your 'knickers in a twist' realize that i'm on your side of the ball on this, in fact, i am responding to the same comment you did in your previous post. the fact of the matter is that anyone that blames jeter for any of our problems, really isn't with it. i like your posts, and i really didnt mean to get you fired up, its just silly to put these problems on our franchise player
You didn't get me fired up at all. I'm just trying to give you a little friendly advice as it seems you're relatively new here. I agree with your sentiment that dumb things are said on this board, but not many people are going to pay attention to them if you voice them in an offensive manner.
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:49 PM
and btw
CALL UP MATT SMITH FOR GOOD
sign JC ROMERO
and that takes care of Myers/Villone
I think Villone did a great job this year up until Torre destroyed his arm but I think his overusage will carry over to 2007
I don't think the Phillies would let us recall him from their AAA afiliate. We could try though.
Romero's decent I guess.
destiNY
10-07-06, 09:49 PM
and btw
CALL UP MATT SMITH FOR GOOD
I don't think the Phillies would allow that...:(
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:49 PM
:roflmao:
I thought the Pettitte part was funnier.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 09:49 PM
I'm upset with the way both of them handled things and I'll leave it at that.
And don't use the word stupid when you quote my posts.
I can respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. And as for saying stupid, I'll stop saying stupid when you stop saying things like "eff Jeter"
ccm1974
10-07-06, 09:51 PM
Im not in any pain, Im calm. If this team fought and battled and still lost it would hurt. However it was clear from the first inning today that they dont really care. So I dont care about this group of players.
Seriously half the team needs to go.
AMEN dude, this team quit.
POSITIONAL PLAYERS
We have a lot of talent, but a lot of room for change. One big deal can completely change the starting rotation for the better, while the offense can be compensated for.
One huge example: Alex Rodriguez. An A+ althlete, but just cannot get it done. It's really hard to trade a guy like Rodriguez, and the Yankees know this.
But if a good enough deal comes around for, let's say a pitcher like Dontrelle Willis, or Barry Zito - who knows?
I think whatever we do, we need to start to phase out the vets, and make room for the youngsters like Cabrera, Phillips and others. If that means trading Rodriguez - so be it.
I think they should resign Sheffield for a one year deal - don't pick up that ridiculous option. Play him at first base, and move Phillips to second base. Move Cano to third and trade Rodriguez for some minor leaguers and some good solid, young pitching.
[/SIZE]
No no no on Cano to 3B and Phillips to 2B. I just don't understand all the Andy love - he's a younger Cairo, a utility guy and nothing more. Keep him because every team needs a role player like that, but he's not a starter. And Cano is NOT a good 2B - good athlete but bad instincts and lazy (there were at least 3 singles that got through this series that he should have made plays on). Moving him to 3B would be a disaster IMO.
CalYankeeFan
10-07-06, 09:53 PM
why are there so many RETARTED yankee fans, seriously, i am embarassed that I associate myself with some of you...
Well - since your inability to spell has already been addressed - after being a member for 3 months, 10 days, and contributing .06 posts per day to the forum - you will be missed since you will be no longer associating with us.
buh bye.
GimeMoMuny
10-07-06, 09:53 PM
hey brosius,
before you go getting your 'knickers in a twist' realize that i'm on your side of the ball on this, in fact, i am responding to the same comment you did in your previous post. the fact of the matter is that anyone that blames jeter for any of our problems, really isn't with it. i like your posts, and i really didnt mean to get you fired up, its just silly to put these problems on our franchise playerIt's just my opinion got23hops, but I think Jeter has a vendetta against A-Rod and has felt threatened, which may have caused him to act petty at times. I feel like he's almost found a satisfaction in seeing A-Rod suffer.
You think I'm retarded and silly for suspecting that?
Quote me and say it, don't hide behind other people.
I don't think the Phillies would allow that...:(
ahh he was part of that trade? I completely forgot :(
that sucks.....i say we get em back
MY DREAM ROTATION
MY DREAM LINE-UP
Dream on.
surge511
10-07-06, 09:54 PM
Look, the fact is, Arod is going nowhere. He is untradeable. Noone will take on that contract, or give us proper worth back, and then we would be left without a 3rd baseman. Talking about trading Jeter is just absolute retardedness. However, I do think we will see many changes, and just about as big an overhaul as Cashman can make with the free agents on the team.
First, I would say Wright, Lidle, Wilson and Sheffield are all gone. Moose will probably be back, just because there are not that many rotation options. Old or injury prone past-their-prime stars are not what we need, and even if they make it through the season they are usually not 100% for the playoffs. Put Melky in left, Matsui DH.
Then with the rotation, try hard for Matsukaza. He is 25 yrs old, pairing him with Wang would be amazing for years to come. If that doesn't work, try for Zito, who is young also, but landing one of those two would be big. We need another top-flight pitcher on the team. Go into the season with Wang, Randy, Mussina, Matsukaza and Pavano with the expectation that Pavano will be hurt by April and Hughes will be able to come up. It is still not great, there are a lot of question marks, but honestly, what can be done that is better? The offense needs more speed and spark (Cabrera is perfect), and the rotation needs to be more young and healthy. Hopefully Cashman can find a way to make that happen.
yankees246
10-07-06, 09:55 PM
You're all talking about letting Sheff go and letting A-Rod be traded. We need his offense, TBH. Also, he did pretty well in the regular season this year. You're not going to replace that production.
Remember, you need to WIN in the REGULAR season to get to the post-season.
Also, Cashman is NOT going to trade A-Rod. The only way he gets traded is if Steinbrenner orders it.
Very sensible points I agree with finally. With all these trade talks we might not even get to the playoffs. Look at Boston this year and what happened to their team, even though they had a mixture of young ones, veterans and trades in the mix.
I just don't understand all the Andy love - he's a younger Cairo
exactly, I dont get it neither man.....Andy is a late inning career defensive replacement. Never on ANY team should he be an everyday player
I disagree about Cano tho. He did miss some balls he should've gotten to, but he's only been in the bigs for a year and 1/2 and he's drastically improved since last year. Give him time to progress and he'll be fine
bambam51
10-07-06, 09:56 PM
Look, the fact is, Arod is going nowhere. He is untradeable. Noone will take on that contract, or give us proper worth back, and then we would be left without a 3rd baseman. Talking about trading Jeter is just absolute retardedness. However, I do think we will see many changes, and just about as big an overhaul as Cashman can make with the free agents on the team.
First, I would say Wright, Lidle, Wilson and Sheffield are all gone. Moose will probably be back, just because there are not that many rotation options. Old or injury prone past-their-prime stars are not what we need, and even if they make it through the season they are usually not 100% for the playoffs. Put Melky in left, Matsui DH.
Then with the rotation, try hard for Matsukaza. He is 25 yrs old, pairing him with Wang would be amazing for years to come. If that doesn't work, try for Zito, who is young also, but landing one of those two would be big. We need another top-flight pitcher on the team. Go into the season with Wang, Randy, Mussina, Matsukaza and Pavano with the expectation that Pavano will be hurt by April and Hughes will be able to come up. It is still not great, there are a lot of question marks, but honestly, what can be done that is better? The offense needs more speed and spark (Cabrera is perfect), and the rotation needs to be more young and healthy. Hopefully Cashman can find a way to make that happen.
AROD will be shopping for beachfront mansions in La Jolla tomorrow.
JonSnow
10-07-06, 09:57 PM
Arod to the Cubs (he needs a team to call his own). Zambrano comes here. Let Sheff walk.
Co-sign.
It's just my opinion "got23hops" but I think Jeter has a vendetta against A-Rod and has felt threatened, which may have caused him to act petty at times. I feel like he's almost found a satisfaction in seeing A-Rod suffer.
Even if you're right, how exactly does Jeter's pettiness cause ARod's production with runners on base to decline? Does Jeter have special meanness rays he uses to slow ARod's bat down? Does ARod need a best friend to help him hit?
Jeter may hate ARod more than his other teammates but it's become clear this season that NO ONE in baseball actually likes the man. Well, except Rob Thomson. ARod probably thrived in Texas because he never noticed those lowly rookies he was trying to lead couldn't stand his ass.
destiNY
10-07-06, 10:02 PM
I can respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. And as for saying stupid, I'll stop saying stupid when you stop saying things like "eff Jeter"
:-poke-: :roflmao: I can't believe some people want Jeter gone...thats crazy. Things that should happen in the offseason:
Sign Matszuaka.
Convince RJ to retire.
Trade Arod to Dodgers for Billingsley and Betemit.
Keep Dotel and Bruney
ROTATION:
Wang
Matszuaka
Pavano
Billingsley
Hughes
Call ups and Spot starters - Clippard, White, Rasner, Karstens
PEN
Mariano
Farnsworth
Proctor
Bruney
Dotel
Myers
Villone
LINEUP
Damon (CF)
Jeter (SS)
Abreu (RF)
Giambi (DH)
Betemit (3B)
Cano (2B)
Matsui (1B)
Posada (C)
Melky (LF)
destiNY
10-07-06, 10:04 PM
Look, the fact is, Arod is going nowhere. He is untradeable. Noone will take on that contract, or give us proper worth back, and then we would be left without a 3rd baseman. Talking about trading Jeter is just absolute retardedness. However, I do think we will see many changes, and just about as big an overhaul as Cashman can make with the free agents on the team.
First, I would say Wright, Lidle, Wilson and Sheffield are all gone. Moose will probably be back, just because there are not that many rotation options. Old or injury prone past-their-prime stars are not what we need, and even if they make it through the season they are usually not 100% for the playoffs. Put Melky in left, Matsui DH.
Then with the rotation, try hard for Matsukaza. He is 25 yrs old, pairing him with Wang would be amazing for years to come. If that doesn't work, try for Zito, who is young also, but landing one of those two would be big. We need another top-flight pitcher on the team. Go into the season with Wang, Randy, Mussina, Matsukaza and Pavano with the expectation that Pavano will be hurt by April and Hughes will be able to come up. It is still not great, there are a lot of question marks, but honestly, what can be done that is better? The offense needs more speed and spark (Cabrera is perfect), and the rotation needs to be more young and healthy. Hopefully Cashman can find a way to make that happen.
His contract is not that bad because the rangers are paying some of it...I believe we are only paying 15mill.
[Cano]'s only been in the bigs for a year and 1/2 and he's drastically improved since last year. Give him time to progress and he'll be fine
Ok, I'll grant you that. But I still don't think converting him to 3B is a good idea.
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:06 PM
It's just my opinion "got23hops" but I think Jeter has a vendetta against A-Rod and has felt threatened, which may have caused him to act petty at times. I feel like he's almost found a satisfaction in seeing A-Rod suffer.
You think I'm retarded and silly for suspecting that?
Quote me and say it, don't hide behind other people.
Jeter can't teach AROD how to handle NY pressure. Bottom line. But that's not really Jeter's fault. He's not AROD. They're two completely different ballplayers with different makeups. One's cut out for NY. The other isn't.
got23hops
10-07-06, 10:09 PM
It's just my opinion "got23hops" but I think Jeter has a vendetta against A-Rod and has felt threatened, which may have caused him to act petty at times. I feel like he's almost found a satisfaction in seeing A-Rod suffer.
You think I'm retarded and silly for suspecting that?
Quote me and say it, don't hide behind other people.
listen, i'm not getting into verbal message board tiffs with anyone tonight, especially because everyone is a little heated, and for a damn good reason. i'm not hiding behind anyone, and sure as s**t dont think your retarded, but the fact of the matter is this: win or lose, derek jeter is the best thing about this team. better than Mo, better than joe, better than our 4 rings, because with him, i couldnt honestly say we'd have gotten those wins. yeah maybe there was some bad blood between jeter and arod, but i definately dont think he (derek) has felt threatened by arod. I mean this is the franchise player who had the what many people called the best player in the game come into HIS town and change positions? i dont think jeter has ever felt threatened. in fact, i believe it is the opposite. as for jeter being petty, i also have to respectfully disagree. jeter leads by example, as seen by not addressing the arod issues at all, by not coming out and telling the fans to ease up, by simply playing the game. jeter means busines, and really doubt that he would let some high school drama get in the way from putting a WS on his pinky finger.
hey but it is what is, 27 will just have to wait...
diehardyankeefan
10-07-06, 10:09 PM
I wouldn't be suprised if Arod or Cano are traded if we can get a really good starting pitching back in return. Those are the only two guys we can trade to get someone really good back
They will not trade Cano and I wouldn't be surprised if A-Rod gets traded. Randy Johnson I think will retire. They won't pick up Shef's option. They should keep Mussina, because he still has something in the tank.
Lawnmower
10-07-06, 10:11 PM
Try me. Tell me the "busts" and then tell me a better option that was available. If Cashman has brought in bad players it was because there was no better room, he had no flexibility to do otherwise because of all the huge contracts signed by the Tamap Faction, or because his moves were pushed away so Stein could make his own (Vladimir Guerrero ring a bell?)
The Abreu deal was much more than a dump. We got a frontline right fielder plus a better 5th starter than we'd had all year for virtually nothing. A middle reliever and a few prospects no one was gushing over. And that move won the division for us... if that means anything to you.
Well about Abreu, the Yanks were the only team who would pick up Abreu's salary and that is why they didn't have to give up top prospects. Also, I would mildly disagree that it won the division but it was a good move no doubt.
I can't say for sure which moves were his and which were Tampa's but the type of moves I'm talking about are guys like A-Rod (don't tell me you wouldn't take Sori back for him in retrospect), Farnsworth, Vasquez, Kevin Brown, Randy, Wright, Pavano, Womack, Lofton and Karsay.
These are the quick fix uncreative moves that the front office has made, specifically with the pitching staff which is very frustrating. I agree that staying the course with guys like Hughes is encouraging and if they let him stay this path, I'm all for it.
surge511
10-07-06, 10:11 PM
His contract is not that bad because the rangers are paying some of it...I believe we are only paying 15mill.
Would you take on $15 million and trade some of our best players for a guy who can't get it done in the playoffs, is an emotional wreck, and is one of the most hated players in baseball? I sure wouldn't. I'm sorry, but there is just absolutely no way that Arod gets traded. I want it to happen too, but it just won't. He is untradeable.
YankeePride1967
10-07-06, 10:12 PM
Just a note: with all of you going absolutely nuts talking about shake-ups and firings, etc., take a few minutes to calm down and think about what you're saying, and think logically about what you're saying.
I am far from upset now. Went out to a great family style Italian restaurant, had a good meal. Listened to a few women talk about their boob jobs and am home now and still believe a shake up is still very much needed. I think it's real possible Joe is gone by Wednesday.
surge511
10-07-06, 10:15 PM
Well about Abreu, the Yanks were the only team who would pick up Abreu's salary and that is why they didn't have to give up top prospects. Also, I would mildly disagree that it won the division but it was a good move no doubt.
I can't say for sure which moves were his and which were Tampa's but the type of moves I'm talking about are guys like A-Rod (don't tell me you wouldn't take Sori back for him in retrospect), Farnsworth, Vasquez, Kevin Brown, Randy, Wright, Pavano, Womack, Lofton and Karsay.
These are the quick fix uncreative moves that the front office has made, specifically with the pitching staff which is very frustrating. I agree that staying the course with guys like Hughes is encouraging and if they let him stay this path, I'm all for it.
I'm not arguing the previous moves, because you are right on with those, and we are still paying the price for some of those bonehead decisions. However, I must say that the Abreu deal was very well done. We had the money to spend on him, and combined this year he hit .300, had 15 HR's and drove in 110 RBI's. That is a damn good season, and he is in the prime of his career right now. He was a great pickup. However, the offense is not what we need to worry about, it's the pitching, and we need to sign at least one big FA starter (Zito, or Matsukaza would be better).
surge511
10-07-06, 10:16 PM
I am far from upset now. Went out to a great family style Italian restaurant, had a good meal. Listened to a few women talk about their boob jobs and am home now and still believe a shake up is still very much needed. I think it's real possible Joe is gone by Wednesday.
I doubt that Joe will be gone, and I think that Mattingly will be the next manager when Joe's next contract is up.
CalYankeeFan
10-07-06, 10:17 PM
I am far from upset now. Went out to a great family style Italian restaurant, had a good meal. Listened to a few women talk about their boob jobs and am home now and still believe a shake up is still very much needed. I think it's real possible Joe is gone by Wednesday.
Well, if you hadn't talked about the boob jobs I would've said give it more time.....;)
YankeePride1967
10-07-06, 10:20 PM
Well, if you hadn't talked about the boob jobs I would've said give it more time.....;)
it's strange down there. Not only do a lot of women have them, they let you know they have them.
NYDCYankee
10-07-06, 10:20 PM
This thread is out of control.
Does anyone think that playoff experience is overrated?
Detroit
White Sox
Marlins
Angels (they had some)
Of late, teams that come out of nowhere seem to be hammering teams that are "experienced", Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, Braves.
This is why I am open to a controlled youth movement.
BBombers85
10-07-06, 10:26 PM
This thread may have set a record for fasted to 20 pages outside of game threads. However I see the following gone:
Wright
Sheffield
Lidle
Wilson
Guiel
Bernie (Its so borderline that he might be back, but difficult to say)
Might be back:
Bernie (borderline so in both categories)
Moose (see last category)
Torre
Villone (if Torre is gone he should be so he doesnt get overused again)
Should be traded/cut:
Pavano
Farnsworth
A-rod
Who I think should be signed:
Zito OR Matsuzaka
Moose (if the price is right otherwise I would not mind seeing him go)
Randy Wolf (possibility)
Pettitte (too injury prone??)
Mulder or Moyer?
My pitching options are toss-ups but I feel thats where the focus should be
Jeter's not gonna be traded, but ................ him. He's had some personal vendetta against A-Rod that he was incapable of sucking up for the team's sake. He's just as much of a pris as A-Rod to me.
Dude, what are you talking about.. if you are being sarcastic then my bad but... jeter has sucked up for the teams sake for 3 years ... What A-rod said about him were extremely offensive and none of us would ever forgive him.... but jeter never ever said anything bad about him
And I see no reason for him to go out of his way to defend A-rod... If A-rod asked him to do so, I am sure jeter would have spoken out... But as a grown man (A-rod) , how shameful is it to you if you needed help from other people to defend your play on the field... A-rod needs to stop being a baby and grow up
BBombers85
10-07-06, 10:33 PM
Dude, what are you talking about.. if you are being sarcastic then my bad but... jeter has sucked up for the teams sake for 3 years ... What A-rod said about him were extremely offensive and none of us would ever forgive him.... but jeter never ever said anything bad about him
And I see no reason for him to go out of his way to defend A-rod... If A-rod asked him to do so, I am sure jeter would have spoken out... But as a grown man (A-rod) , how shameful is it to you if you needed help from other people to defend your play on the field... A-rod needs to stop being a baby and grow up
I dont see how a baseball player needs support to do well. Isn't a $10 mil + salary enough motivation for any player to do well. A-rod is a joke, however. This guy says some of the most idiotic things that make you want to punch him in the face. Last year was "I played like a dog," this year its "Look in the mirror and say 'I sucked.'" C'mon A-rod tell me something I dont know. This guy is a disaster and needs to go somewhere he can suceed and get us something that will do the same for us in return. As for Jeter not defending him, thats Jeter's call. I dont think its negative that he didnt. I'm sure everyone on the team wants everyone to do well. It is a team after all.
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:35 PM
This thread is out of control.
Does anyone think that playoff experience is overrated?
Detroit
White Sox
Marlins
Angels (they had some)
Of late, teams that come out of nowhere seem to be hammering teams that are "experienced", Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, Braves.
This is why I am open to a controlled youth movement.
Solid post. Young teams complimented by vets have beat us in 2002, 2003, 2005 and now in 2006. We get tired. We play to avoid failure. Kids just play like there's no tomorrow.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 10:35 PM
Well about Abreu, the Yanks were the only team who would pick up Abreu's salary and that is why they didn't have to give up top prospects. Also, I would mildly disagree that it won the division but it was a good move no doubt.
I can't say for sure which moves were his and which were Tampa's but the type of moves I'm talking about are guys like A-Rod (don't tell me you wouldn't take Sori back for him in retrospect), Farnsworth, Vasquez, Kevin Brown, Randy, Wright, Pavano, Womack, Lofton and Karsay.
These are the quick fix uncreative moves that the front office has made, specifically with the pitching staff which is very frustrating. I agree that staying the course with guys like Hughes is encouraging and if they let him stay this path, I'm all for it.
Arod - Hindsight is 20/20. There is not a GM in baseball that'd pass up Arod if they had a shot to get him. Plus, he's been a big reason we've gotten to the post-season each year he's been here. No one could predict he'd flop in October.
Farnsworth - He has been a pretty good set up guy. He's had rough patches, but no major complaints.
Vasquez - Again, 20/20 hindsight. He was shaping up to be an excellent young pitcher in Montreal and he was an AllStar for us. He fell apart in the second half.
Brown- Who was the better option? There was no one else available and we needed a pitcher.
Randy - Steinbrenner move
Wright - he was signed as a 5th starter. he got hurt last year, but this year he was healthy and performed as a 5th starter should
Pavano - 20/20 hindsight. He was a cy young candidate when we signed him. He was young. We gave up no players for him. No one could have predicted he'd be a fixture on the DL. Everyone of us was very happy he signed here.
Womack - A bad move, but it didnt take him very long to replace him with Cano.
Lofton - Was not a bad move at all. Torre didn't like him and didn't give him the playing time he deserved.
Karsay - Low risk/high reward move. Shouldn't even be on the list.
His contract is not that bad because the rangers are paying some of it...I believe we are only paying 15mill.
I think that its more like17 mil .. and the thing is that Giambi is being paid ~20 mil next year.. and if i had to choose one of the two, I would still choose A-rod.. he does show up to play everyday and is much more durable
destiNY
10-07-06, 10:40 PM
Would you take on $15 million and trade some of our best players for a guy who can't get it done in the playoffs, is an emotional wreck, and is one of the most hated players in baseball? I sure wouldn't. I'm sorry, but there is just absolutely no way that Arod gets traded. I want it to happen too, but it just won't. He is untradeable.
I don't think teams believe he can't handle the postseason, he was a .300 playoff hitter until he came to NY. I disagree that he is untradeable.
Arod - Hindsight is 20/20. There is not a GM in baseball that'd pass up Arod if they had a shot to get him. Plus, he's been a big reason we've gotten to the post-season each year he's been here. No one could predict he'd flop in October.
Farnsworth - He has been a pretty good set up guy. He's had rough patches, but no major complaints.
Vasquez - Again, 20/20 hindsight. He was shaping up to be an excellent young pitcher in Montreal and he was an AllStar for us. He fell apart in the second half.
Brown- Who was the better option? There was no one else available and we needed a pitcher.
Randy - Steinbrenner move
Wright - he was signed as a 5th starter. he got hurt last year, but this year he was healthy and performed as a 5th starter should
Pavano - 20/20 hindsight. He was a cy young candidate when we signed him. He was young. We gave up no players for him. No one could have predicted he'd be a fixture on the DL. Everyone of us was very happy he signed here.
Womack - A bad move, but it didnt take him very long to replace him with Cano.
Lofton - Was not a bad move at all. Torre didn't like him and didn't give him the playing time he deserved.
Karsay - Low risk/high reward move. Shouldn't even be on the list.
Farnsworth is such a good setup guy that we've had Proctor setting up for a lot of games. Farnsworth can't pitch multiple innings and he can't pitch on back to back days. Some days he also can't find the strike zone. He was definitely worth 16 million or whatever we gave him. He's a terrible setup guy.
Pavano was not a Cy Young candidate or even close when we signed him, a lot of people thought he'd be a big flop. I didn't realize that would entail him not pitching for us.
I can't say for sure which moves were his and which were Tampa's but the type of moves I'm talking about are guys like A-Rod (don't tell me you wouldn't take Sori back for him in retrospect), Farnsworth, Vasquez, Kevin Brown, Randy, Wright, Pavano, Womack, Lofton and Karsay.
These are the quick fix uncreative moves that the front office has made, specifically with the pitching staff which is very frustrating.
ARod does not belong on that list. It was not a 'quick fix' - it was a chance to get a future HOFer for a bad defensive player with huge holes in his swing. Sori is a very talented hitter - you need to give up a talented hitter to get a hitter of ARod's caliber - but he sucked in the PS too, so I'm not sure why anyone would argue that we'd be better off right now with him vs. ARod.
In the end, Wells for Clemens turned out to be pretty much a wash, especially for the first 2 years. Still doesn't make it a bad deal.
GMs don't make moves in retrospect so saying now that ARod for Sori was a bad deal - 3 years after he got here and 1 year removed from an AL MVP - is hindsight in the extreme.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - the Yankees won 3 championships with a complete basket case playing 2B. A basket case who was a former All Star, who we gave up a valuable pitching prospect for and who almost threw away the 1998 season. The difference between Knobby and ARod? The Yankee's had dominant pitching back then so we won titles anyway and in the end nobody cared how disappointing Knobby was.
When you lose, obviously changes need to be made. But it's worth asking whether you would make the change even if you won, because the ONLY criteria for a move is it makes the team better, not that it satisfies some urge to do something. I agree that that's how the FO has dealt with the pitching since 2001 - just throwing stuff at the walls and seeing what sticks.
No Maas
10-07-06, 10:41 PM
If you want to dump Torre for Girardi, better get a move on. Girardi has already interviewed with the Nationals.
destiNY
10-07-06, 10:41 PM
Solid post. Young teams complimented by vets have beat us in 2002, 2003, 2005 and now in 2006. We get tired. We play to avoid failure. Kids just play like there's no tomorrow.
I agree and I think Torre overrates the importance of "experience" He is too old school and needs to change the way he manages with the way the game is changing.
Slioman
10-07-06, 10:41 PM
A-Rod ain't gone unless we get some great deal. I, for one, don't want to see him gone either.
destiNY
10-07-06, 10:42 PM
If you want to dump Torre for Girardi, better get a move on. Girardi has already interviewed with the Nationals.
I don't think Girardi wants to replace torre on the basis of him being fired...I could be wrong, just my opinion.
NYDCYankee
10-07-06, 10:43 PM
I think Proctor or Farns could go, because I think some teams might want to make them closers. I think this is an option that should be explored. If we could get a good arm in the starting rotation for them.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-06, 10:45 PM
I think Proctor or Farns could go, because I think some teams might want to make them closers. I think this is an option that should be explored. If we could get a good arm in the starting rotation for them.
Your not going to get that...
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 10:46 PM
1) No Trade Cluase for Arod, and where else does he want to play.
2) They wont fire Joe, he's ' stepping down ' - we all know that.
* I like Lee Mas- Lou Pinella - maybe Girardi, but i think hes goin to the Cubs
3) i hope there arent changes made.
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:46 PM
I agree and I think Torre overrates the importance of "experience" He is too old school and needs to change the way he manages with the way the game is changing.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Girardi in there. But I think Joe's available personnel dictated his choices this year. He deserves a fresh start with a bunch like the 96 team that was young with complimentary vets mixed in. Torre will be with us 1 more year. And I guarantee he goes out a winner in 2007. In 2008, it's Mattingly or Girardi. I'm fine with either.
A-Rod might be gone. I hope so, anyway.
Slioman
10-07-06, 10:48 PM
A-Rod slumps for a while and everyone forgets his MVP season >_>;;
I have nothing against sending A-Rod out but ONLY if we have a decent replacement and get something good in return. Don't be just trying to get him off your back.
NYDCYankee
10-07-06, 10:49 PM
Your not going to get that...
Really? I can think of a list of teams that could be interested, Indians, Braves, Marlins, Cubs, Reds, DBacks, Pirates, Milwaukee.
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:49 PM
A-Rod might be gone. I hope so, anyway.
Remember the Proctor/Betemit trade talks this year. Thank God we didn't lose Proctor to the Braves but remember that Cashman was interested in Betemit and talks escalated. It's funny how the Dodgers grabbed him...and just so happen to have the resources to add AROD in the offseason.
I predict a Dodgers/Yankees trade involving AROD and Betemit and some other players.
NYIndian2005
10-07-06, 10:50 PM
How the heck can people even start talking about next year?? I mean aren't you sick to the stomach right now. I was flipping the channel if any baseball came on and will probably do so for the rest of the postseason. this is ridiculous. I cant believe there are people on here talking about next season when this one just ended in a disaster. What possible confidence can you have that whatever you plan is not going to wind up the same.
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Girardi in there. But I think Joe's available personnel dictated his choices this year. He deserves a fresh start with a bunch like the 96 team that was young with complimentary vets mixed in. Torre will be with us 1 more year. And I guarantee he goes out a winner in 2007. In 2008, it's Mattingly or Girardi. I'm fine with either.
I dont think that Donnie will make a good manager. He does a great job as a batting coach but doesnt seem to be manager type (obviously I could be wrong) but I would definitely prefer girardi over him
cmaff05
10-07-06, 10:51 PM
Proctor is not a closer. He doesn't have closer stuff. Farnsworth is going to have to have a better season before a team takes a chance at him.
brosiusbuddy
10-07-06, 10:51 PM
Farnsworth is such a good setup guy that we've had Proctor setting up for a lot of games. Farnsworth can't pitch multiple innings and he can't pitch on back to back days. Some days he also can't find the strike zone. He was definitely worth 16 million or whatever we gave him. He's a terrible setup guy.
Pavano was not a Cy Young candidate or even close when we signed him, a lot of people thought he'd be a big flop. I didn't realize that would entail him not pitching for us.
When we signed Pavano he had finished 6th in the Cy Young voting the year prior where he went 18-8 with an era of 3.00 and a WHIP of 1.17 in 222 innings. Know what you're talking about before you write something.
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 10:51 PM
Who do I think/hope is gone?
Torre, A-Rod, Wright, Pavano, RJ, Moose, Sheff, Dotel, Myers, Villone...
Yes, I want to blowup this team.
How the heck can people even start talking about next year?? I mean aren't you sick to the stomach right now. I was flipping the channel if any baseball came on and will probably do so for the rest of the postseason. this is ridiculous. I cant believe there are people on here talking about next season when this one just ended in a disaster. What possible confidence can you have that whatever you plan is not going to wind up the same.
Because some people don't overreact.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-06, 10:52 PM
Really? I can think of a list of teams that could be interested, Indians, Braves, Marlins, Cubs, Reds, DBacks, Pirates, Milwaukee.
I can see teams being interested but I can't see getting a "good" arm in the rotation for them...
Slioman
10-07-06, 10:52 PM
Pavano was not a Cy Young candidate or even close when we signed him, a lot of people thought he'd be a big flop. I didn't realize that would entail him not pitching for us.
He came in 6th behind Zambrano and Schmidt.
Edit: Agh. Beaten to the punch.
GimeMoMuny
10-07-06, 10:53 PM
Dude, what are you talking about.. if you are being sarcastic then my bad but... jeter has sucked up for the teams sake for 3 years ... What A-rod said about him were extremely offensive and none of us would ever forgive him.... but jeter never ever said anything bad about him]Why should nobody forgive A-Rod for a something that was said before he was a Yankee?
The teams success should be placed above such petty things.
And I see no reason for him to go out of his way to defend A-rod... If A-rod asked him to do so, I am sure jeter would have spoken out... But as a grown man (A-rod) , how shameful is it to you if you needed help from other people to defend your play on the field... A-rod needs to stop being a baby and grow upI don't necessarily disagree about Alex having to sack up, but Jeter simply let him burn. Nobody would have questioned Jeter for throwing A-Rod even the slightest bone in the media, he's done so for other players in the past.
/hijack
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-06, 10:54 PM
Who do I think/hope is gone?
Torre, A-Rod, Wright, Pavano, RJ, Moose, Sheff, Dotel, Myers, Villone...
Yes, I want to blowup this team.
I agree, except I'd like to give Dotel a shot and trade Matsui (never happening but its what I want)...
EDIT: Didn't see Sheff there in your list...
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:54 PM
I dont think that Donnie will make a good manager. He does a great job as a batting coach but doesnt seem to be manager type (obviously I could be wrong) but I would definitely prefer girardi over him
Girardi with Bowa as a bench coach and Mattingly as the hitting instructor. I'm fine with that. But I would like to see Torre go out on top in 2007. I think Cashman needs to take some excess baggage off Joe though for next year and add some more depth to the starting rotation. They finished 11th in innings pitched. Zito and Matsuzaka are workhorses. Mussina's on the decline and can only stay efffective for 6 innings. Give Joe essentially the same pen next year and a staff of Zito, Matsuzaka, Wang, Hughes and Johnson and Torre can't lose.
Slioman
10-07-06, 10:55 PM
Girardi with Bowa as a bench coach and Mattingly as the hitting instructor. I'm fine with that. But I would like to see Torre go out on top in 2007. I think Cashman needs to take some excess baggage off Joe though for next year and add some more depth to the starting rotation. They finished 11th in innings pitched. Zito and Matsuzaka are workhorses. Mussina's on the decline and can only stay efffective for 6 innings. Give Joe essentially the same pen next year and a staff of Zito, Matsuzaka, Wang, Hughes and Johnson and Torre can't lose.
Hm. Ever consider trying to bring Clemens back? He seems effective for 6 innings too.
Montefusco'sSon
10-07-06, 10:56 PM
If we pick up Sheff's option and eat some of the contract, we can deal him for something decent, right? That way he won't go to the Sox (where I'm sure he'd kill us out of spite), and we can get some sort of young talent for him.
I don't think we have to go too crazy signing pitchers. Like it or not, I think we're gonna push hard for Matsuzaka. Even if he's a #2 or 3 behind Wang and not a #1, that's OK. If we can deal A-Rod for one young #2 or 3 (plus a 3B), keep one of either Rasner or Karstens as a 5 and keep Unit (we have absolutely no choice...no one on Earth will take him, and if you think he's not coming back to try for 300 wins, however irrational that may be, you're crazy), we won't have a bad rotation. Then, we can bring up Clippard or Hughes mid-season if need be, but not rush them up for a full year. I think it'd be hard to have Hughes especially throw a 200+ major league innings at this point. Hopefully we can get a stud middle reliever for Sheff (I think he has to at least be worth a Linebrink or something), and our staff if pretty sured up. We'd have:
SPs
Wang
Young #2 or 3 acquired for A-rod
Matsuzaka
Unit
Rasner/Karstens, and if ineffective, replaced by Hughes/Clippard
Pen
Proctor
Setup man acquired for Sheff
Bruney
Farnsworth
Mo
Also, I'm only half joking in saying that we have to trade Donnie for Paulie as hitting instructor. I know Donnie works his tail off and everyone says he's great, but the curse of the Donbino lives on. We haven't won a thing with him on the bench...ever, and even though its probably not his fault, under his watch, all hitting principles seem to go out the window as soon as things don't go our way in the playoffs. I don't know if he'd be interested, but at least Paulie would bring some fire to the locker room.
bambam51
10-07-06, 10:57 PM
Who do I think/hope is gone?
Torre, A-Rod, Wright, Pavano, RJ, Moose, Sheff, Dotel, Myers, Villone...
Yes, I want to blowup this team.
Wow, we're close on the players who must go...
But we disagree on Torre.
Also, we're stuck with Pavano and RJ.
AROD, Moose, Sheffield, Wright, Dotel, Myers, Villone, Bernie...how much money do we save there?
DontHateOnNumber2
10-07-06, 11:00 PM
I think Jaret Wright will be gone, Bernie will retire a Yankee I think, Gary Sheffield did himself in with his showing in the cleanup spot, but contrary to what many think I believe Alex WILL not be gone. He shouldn't be, but he also should not let everything get to him. It's not fair to himself or the team. It's quite possible that Guidry will be gone too, I don't think he'll be fired but I think he may just resign. Others are Mike Myers, Octavio Dotel, and maybe Andy Phillips.
Remember the Proctor/Betemit trade talks this year. Thank God we didn't lose Proctor to the Braves but remember that Cashman was interested in Betemit and talks escalated. It's funny how the Dodgers grabbed him...and just so happen to have the resources to add AROD in the offseason.
I predict a Dodgers/Yankees trade involving AROD and Betemit and some other players.
I hope you're right. I just want him gone. I don't care how it sounds. I am sure he will do better somewhere else, and I'm sure he'll turn into a Yankee killer. But he can't cut it here.
bobbymagee
10-07-06, 11:02 PM
Gone.........
Alex trade
Sheff trade
Matsui trade
Lidle
Wright
Phillips
Torre
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 11:04 PM
Wow, we're close on the players who must go...
But we disagree on Torre.
Also, we're stuck with Pavano and RJ.
AROD, Moose, Sheffield, Wright, Dotel, Myers, Villone, Bernie...how much money do we save there?
What has Torre done in the last 5 years to deserve to stay here?
Cut them. Pavano is as good as dead and if we need RJ as our 5th starter (and I really mean that, he must come back as our #5), so be it.
We save a lot. I'm so disgusted with this team I'd even bring back Bernie for that 5th outfielder spot though... I trust him, at $2 million for another year, more than any of those other players in the postseason who we'd pay $13+ a year.
Goodbye A-Rod (Weaver/Santana and Kendrick for him), Sheff (I'd even offer him arbitration for the draft picks and hope he doesn't accept), Moose (this is just me being angry, I'd probably re-sign him to a 2 year deal), Dotel (f*ck you), Myers (I hate you), Villone (You're a good person, but lets offer you arbitration and have you sign with another team)...
And get me another manager. For the love of God, get rid of Joe.
Slioman
10-07-06, 11:04 PM
Gone.........
Alex trade
Sheff trade
Matsui trade
Lidle
Wright
Phillips
Torre
Losing Matsui means losing lots of $$$.
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 11:05 PM
Gone.........
Alex trade
Sheff trade
Matsui trade
Lidle
Wright
Phillips
Torre
I think Matsui has a NTC or else I'd trade him in a second.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-06, 11:06 PM
Losing Matsui means losing lots of $$$.
Not making it past the 1st round loses a lot of money too...
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 11:06 PM
Losing Matsui means losing lots of $$$.
Given that Melky costs $12 million less than him, it doesn't. Especially when you consider the kind of young talent we could get for him.
genius-24
10-07-06, 11:07 PM
Not making it past the 1st round loses a lot of money too...
It's obviously not matsui's fault.
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 11:08 PM
what about brian cashman? is he staying, i think he should, but its worth being brought up.
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 11:08 PM
By the way, Hughes should start the season on the team next year.
Wang
Matsuzaka
Hughes
Clippard
RJ
JeffWeaverFan
10-07-06, 11:09 PM
what about brian cashman? is he staying, i think he should, but its worth being brought up.
Yeah, he'll be staying. He's a good GM and it's not his fault the Tampa faction f*cked him on a number of signings.
Slioman
10-07-06, 11:10 PM
Given that Melky costs $12 million less than him, it doesn't. Especially when you consider the kind of young talent we could get for him.
Keeping Matsui could bode good for the Japanese market for years to come. If we drop him we could lose respect of Japanese teams, thereforth not getting the stars. Teach Matsui to play 1st in the offseason, DH Giambi, play Melky in left.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-07-06, 11:10 PM
It's obviously not matsui's fault.
No, he didn't help though. Its what you get for Matsui that helps...
Slioman
10-07-06, 11:10 PM
By the way, Hughes should start the season on the team next year.
Wang
Matsuzaka
Hughes
Clippard
RJ
I see Hughes and Clippard mid-season at best, not due to their pitching quality, but really babying them along and picking up innings.
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 11:11 PM
i agree with that - just wanted to make sure.
Why should nobody forgive A-Rod for a something that was said before he was a Yankee?
The teams success be placed above such petty things.I don't necessarily disagree about Alex having to sack up, but Jeter simply let him burn. Nobody would have questioned Jeter for throwing A-Rod even the slightest bone in the media, he's done so for other players in the past.
/hijack
I agree with you that jeter has never forgiven A-rod for what he said in the article... but you must remember that they were very close friends when A-rod said what he said..
Could he have defended A-rod in the media and asked people not to boo him.... sure
but people would have stopped for 2 days and then started again... i remember that once even guilliani spoke out in alex's defense and reggie jackson had a talk with A-rod...
well, none of it helped did it? what i am trying to say is that alex has to sort out his issues on his own and that is the only thing that is make a difference.... Its unfair to say that its jeters fault that things didnt turn out for the better
bambam51
10-07-06, 11:12 PM
By the way, Hughes should start the season on the team next year.
Wang
Matsuzaka
Hughes
Clippard
RJ
I'd like a veteran leader beyond RJ so Barry Zito should be signed. He'll give 200 innings which addresses the teams greatest deficiency of 2006, length of starting pitching. They finished 11th in IP's.
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 11:13 PM
who is matsuzaka?
ZIM 2002
10-07-06, 11:15 PM
No way Matsui is traded. Japan/US relations wouldn't survive it. But unfortunately he's another DH. I actually think he's more versatile than Giambi, and would prefer him at DH, but I know that's not going to happen either.
Slioman
10-07-06, 11:15 PM
who is matsuzaka?
Best SP in Japan, healthy and a workhouse (double edged sword, as we don't know if he'll blow out his arm eventually). Strikeouts a lot of people. 150km/h stuff (I believe that is like 95mph...) with nasty movement. I do believe he is better than Nomo was in Japan.
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 11:17 PM
im assuming we havnt signed him yet? regarding to Matsuzaka
Slioman
10-07-06, 11:21 PM
im assuming we havnt signed him yet? regarding to Matsuzaka
Every team has to go through a posting where they send how much money they'll pay the Seibu Lions to even talk with Matz. Matz has Bora$ as an agent, I believe, so expect him to get big bucks.
BxBomber44
10-07-06, 11:23 PM
Every team has to go through a posting where they send how much money they'll pay the Seibu Lions to even talk with Matz. Matz has Bora$ as an agent, I believe, so expect him to get big bucks.
oh thats "great". from what I hear though he could really help the roatation, but we'll see ... i say build a young rotation around Wang and ONE veteran; RJ or Moose ( and i know we have RJ thru next year )
Lawnmower
10-07-06, 11:38 PM
Arod - Hindsight is 20/20. There is not a GM in baseball that'd pass up Arod if they had a shot to get him. Plus, he's been a big reason we've gotten to the post-season each year he's been here. No one could predict he'd flop in October.
Farnsworth - He has been a pretty good set up guy. He's had rough patches, but no major complaints.
Vasquez - Again, 20/20 hindsight. He was shaping up to be an excellent young pitcher in Montreal and he was an AllStar for us. He fell apart in the second half.
Brown- Who was the better option? There was no one else available and we needed a pitcher.
Randy - Steinbrenner move
Wright - he was signed as a 5th starter. he got hurt last year, but this year he was healthy and performed as a 5th starter should
Pavano - 20/20 hindsight. He was a cy young candidate when we signed him. He was young. We gave up no players for him. No one could have predicted he'd be a fixture on the DL. Everyone of us was very happy he signed here.
Womack - A bad move, but it didnt take him very long to replace him with Cano.
Lofton - Was not a bad move at all. Torre didn't like him and didn't give him the playing time he deserved.
Karsay - Low risk/high reward move. Shouldn't even be on the list.
While you can discount some of the criticisms by saying it's 20/20 hindsight and we all might have made the same move, a GM should be based on the results regardless. To be fair, it works the other way too. I didn't like some moves at the time (like Matsui and Damon) and they worked out great, so I'll give the FO credit for those.
yankees246
10-08-06, 03:30 AM
I don't want to see Sheffield and ARod in a yankee uniform again. They give me the creeps and only remind me of bad things that happened to the yankees.
Wow,this sounds very informative. Is this the ultimate definition of the Evil Empire cast? :eek:
Mattingly Sideburns
10-08-06, 03:55 AM
I really think that RJ might consider retirement. The man is 43, seems to spend an awful lot of time in pain, has made a ton of money, and has won every award there is for a pitcher (including co-WS MVP). Could it possibly be that fun for him to pitch in pain and be a shell of his former self?
If this were to happen, I'm not sure how to replace his innings, but it would definitely free up some cash.
parkerstrong
10-08-06, 06:02 AM
A-rod
Torre
Mussina
Sheffield
Wright
Bernie
Pavano
I got money on at least half of those being traded or not re-signed. If Johnson retires that would be great. I honestly think the team is in for a major change.
Bernie, Wright, and Torre is gone.
Pavano is stuck on this team. He cant be traded unless we pay 90% of his contract...that wont happen.
Shef may come back, and with a spring training at 1B he should be able to play it better....but he was horrible at the plate in the playoffs (like always).
Mussina? I dont know....I kinda hope he leaves so we can get draft picks. But who replaces him? Wang and RJ is all we have for the rotation..... its not like we can get someone better than Mussina. I expect him to re-sign.
We need to hope Hughes is as good as it sounds and we can get Mats from Japan....the best chance to improve the rotation for next year.
parkerstrong
10-08-06, 06:05 AM
I really think that RJ might consider retirement. The man is 43, seems to spend an awful lot of time in pain, has made a ton of money, and has won every award there is for a pitcher (including co-WS MVP). Could it possibly be that fun for him to pitch in pain and be a shell of his former self?
If this were to happen, I'm not sure how to replace his innings, but it would definitely free up some cash.
RJ has about 16 million reasons to not retire. I am sure he wants 300 wins too, and with the Yankee lineup he can easily get at least 10 next year. I would pitch in pain for a year for 5 million, let alone 16. I expect RJ to come back (which isnt a good thing really).
indianyanksfan
10-08-06, 06:15 AM
umm this is a weird question but could it be that rj had this disc problem all year leading to the inconsistency and he will have surgery for it soon?
parkerstrong
10-08-06, 06:15 AM
What has Torre done in the last 5 years to deserve to stay here?
Cut them. Pavano is as good as dead and if we need RJ as our 5th starter (and I really mean that, he must come back as our #5), so be it.
We save a lot. I'm so disgusted with this team I'd even bring back Bernie for that 5th outfielder spot though... I trust him, at $2 million for another year, more than any of those other players in the postseason who we'd pay $13+ a year.
Goodbye A-Rod (Weaver/Santana and Kendrick for him), Sheff (I'd even offer him arbitration for the draft picks and hope he doesn't accept), Moose (this is just me being angry, I'd probably re-sign him to a 2 year deal), Dotel (f*ck you), Myers (I hate you), Villone (You're a good person, but lets offer you arbitration and have you sign with another team)...
And get me another manager. For the love of God, get rid of Joe.
Villone will accept arbitration in a heartbeat. He is from the area, and with a 5.01 ERA there arent many teams knocking on your door. A smart team would wait to see if we offer arbitration so they dont give up picks, because Villone will make more in arbitration that he would with a free agent contract.
A-Rod for Weaver/Santana and Kendrick is something I brought up a few weeks ago. Assuming Kendrick can play 3B, Santana(I doubt Weaver would be traded) would be a nice young arm we can put in the starting rotation. I think he will improve on his numbers from this year.
GimeMoMuny
10-08-06, 06:17 AM
RJ has about 16 million reasons to not retire. I am sure he wants 300 wins too, and with the Yankee lineup he can easily get at least 10 next year. I would pitch in pain for a year for 5 million, let alone 16. I expect RJ to come back (which isnt a good thing really).You're right, it's not a good thing.
This type of sideshow garbage is exactly what this team doesn't need. I don't give a damn about RJ's 300th win. He's been an absolute and complete BUST.
If he isn't pitching effectively he needs to go. The sooner he retires, the sooner he gets into the HOF. I really do not want to see a washed up pitcher slinging some meatballs for a couple more accolades on this team's watch. I want to see some live arms.
I will hope for a buyout.
yankees246
10-08-06, 07:54 AM
Jeter's not gonna be traded, but ................ him. He's had some personal vendetta against A-Rod that he was incapable of sucking up for the team's sake. He's just as much of a pris as A-Rod to me.
Wow, I'm impressed, somebody had the guts to say something like that about the captain. I know I wouldn't have. I would have been scared of name calling and retaliation. Just kidding. :eek: :D
ManilaYankee
10-08-06, 07:57 AM
A-Rod and Torre won't go. That's what I'm hoping.
Yanks4eva1
10-08-06, 08:00 AM
There is one player that hasn't been mentioned at all.
The 10th player.
The spoiled, entitled, bloodthirsty Yankee fans who booed the hell out of players and had no idea how much it affects the entire team. I go to games a lot and what I saw this year from the Yankees fans was appalling. No wonder a lot of good players don't want to come here. Between the media and the fans who wants this BS.
I think we need to get rid of the classless Yankee fans who don't know how to act when their team is down, when a player is in a slump. IT happens and it will happen again. It's high time we change our perspective and stop acting like we are in Rome watching a Gladiator show. I don't care how much money you pay to see a game. You can watch it free at home. Respect the game, respect the team, respect the children in the stadium who have to be subjected to such garbage. Most importantly, respect yourselves.
Dee
poisonpill
10-08-06, 08:08 AM
There is one player that hasn't been mentioned at all.
The 10th player.
Sure the fans could be a smidge more optimistic at times, but to say they affect the play on the field? Give me a break.
This team won 97 games and won the first game vs Detroit handily at home. The fans weren't responsible for Mussina coughing up the lead in game 2 and if you noticed, the fans weren't there in Detroit for the rest.
The fans probably didn't help Arod much, but to say the fans were at all responsible for the outcome in Detroit is laughably absurd.
YankeePride1967
10-08-06, 08:22 AM
There is one player that hasn't been mentioned at all.
The 10th player.
The spoiled, entitled, bloodthirsty Yankee fans who booed the hell out of players and had no idea how much it affects the entire team. I go to games a lot and what I saw this year from the Yankees fans was appalling. No wonder a lot of good players don't want to come here. Between the media and the fans who wants this BS.
I think we need to get rid of the classless Yankee fans who don't know how to act when their team is down, when a player is in a slump. IT happens and it will happen again. It's high time we change our perspective and stop acting like we are in Rome watching a Gladiator show. I don't care how much money you pay to see a game. You can watch it free at home. Respect the game, respect the team, respect the children in the stadium who have to be subjected to such garbage. Most importantly, respect yourselves.
Dee
I don't think we will have to worry about the fans you describe above. They will likely be at Shea next year.
Yanks4eva1
10-08-06, 08:31 AM
Sure the fans could be a smidge more optimistic at times, but to say they affect the play on the field? Give me a break.
This team won 97 games and won the first game vs Detroit handily at home. The fans weren't responsible for Mussina coughing up the lead in game 2 and if you noticed, the fans weren't there in Detroit for the rest.
The fans probably didn't help Arod much, but to say the fans were at all responsible for the outcome in Detroit is laughably absurd.
Did I say that the fans were responsible for the outcome in Detroit? Don't be ridiculous. Read my post again. I mention a specific type of fan and I don't care what you think. It does affect this team.
How many games have you been to this year at the stadium? I went to game 2 at the stadium and let me tell you, the crowd was awful. The crowd started to press as soon as the score was 3-2 and A-Rod was booed to no end. I watched the team's faces and you can see the change. Then when Detroit tied the score, it was downhill from there.
Dee
Mopar Larry
10-08-06, 08:34 AM
oh thats "great". from what I hear though he could really help the roatation, but we'll see ... i say build a young rotation around Wang and ONE veteran; RJ or Moose ( and i know we have RJ thru next year )
Sorry sports fans, but Randy should retire before he embarasses himself (and the team) further. Build the rotation around Wang and Moose and maybe Bruney (if he works with Gator.)
Sheff? Loved Sheff, but the first base experiement was a disaster and his bat did nothing for us. See you at old timers day.
However the biggest problem (IMHO) this post season was the approach.
It was like we forgot everything that got the the Yanks to the to the post season - that combination of scrambling for small hits, combined with the traditional yankee HR. Our hitters were smart, worked the pitch count, took the walk to get on base and brought the runners around playing small ball.
Like the Mets did last night against the Dodgers.
In the post season our hitters looked like they forgot everything they learned this season at every postseason at-bat. The crap they swung at was laughable - they swung at balls that almost every little league knows to let go by.
We've seen it before - we get behind in the big game and the batters hack away at every pitch and struck out or hit right to the nearest fielder. It's called panic. Professionals should know better.
A-Rod? Let the Yankees use the extra quarter and half dollar they rooked us out of for postseason beer and food to buy him the best shrink in Manhattan. Give him 1 more season and tell him to stop thinking about new excuses and play !@#$%^&* ball. If that doesn't work, then deal him.
Keep Bernie. Thank God for Bernie. but don't make him an everyday player, I think the time-off he had between appearances kept him sharp. Put him in everyday and his age will start to show.
Rotate first base between Giambi and Phillips. Giambi is a so-so first baseman. Hideki? rotate him with Melkey in the field, I agree with DHing Hideki.
Joe Torre got us to the post season and last week people were talking manager of the year. So put the knives away, Brutus. Give him one more season...if he wants it. I think he'd like to retire on top, with one more championship under his belt. If there is one fault to find with Joe, it was the ill concieved Sheff at first base experiment. Save that for the regular season. His glove and bat did nothing for us in the post season.
And for the love of whatever diety you to pray to, get some decent, young pitching. No more aging superstars. Don't trade for any pitcher over 30. DONOT bring Kenny Rogers to the Bronx.
And take Pavino out behind the stadium and take care of him Sopranos style. (joke)
Sorry for the length of the post, but this has been boiling in my gut since last Thursday....and maybe since 02
I Heart Jeter
10-08-06, 09:34 AM
Also I don't know if we need Mike Myers next year. I think the only reason we brought in a LOOGIE was to face Ortiz, but we'll just have to pitch around him, especially since it looks like Manny Ramirez may not be a Red Sox next year. Villone pitches decently against lefties, and we could get another left handed arm who could give us more than 1/3 inning everytime he comes in a game. This will help keep Proctor/Bruney/Farnsworth/Mo from being over-used next year
I Heart Jeter
10-08-06, 09:35 AM
Maybe Melky could be our center fielder next year, and Matsui/Damon can platoon leftfield. With all of Damon's nagging injuries it would be helpful to keep him in the field a little less next year.
sugmasterflex
10-08-06, 10:43 AM
Mussina, Sheffield, Villone, Lidle.
Spiker101
10-08-06, 10:55 AM
Start with who we know will be back:
The Yanks have a very nice outfield coming back, as good as anybody's in both quality and depth. Abreu, Damon, Matsui and Melky.
At short, Jeter is still quality. Giambi at DH is back. Posada is the catcher.
The pen has Mo and Farnsworth back for sure.
Wang is back. Pavano for the obvious reasons is, alas, also back.
That's 11 players. Every other spot on the roster is up for grabs as far as I'm concerned.
The real problem of course is the rotation. The Yanks need to hope RJ has the pride to call it quits (and I think he might), but in case he doesn't the Yanks need to play hard ball with him. They should tell him that he won't automatically be given a spot in the rotation; he doesn't deserve one, not after this season and not after his performance in the playoffs the last two Octobers. The Big Unit would make a very fine lefty out of the pen and a terrific emergency starter. He's not going to get to 300 wins with the Yanks. If he's willing to talk salary adjustment, the Yanks might be able to send him home to Arizona.
I don't like Zito or Schmidt, signing either one of them would be a repeat of the Mussina deal, which isn't what's required for this pitching staff. The Japanese kid represents a breath-taking risk, but he's the only potential ace out there on the free agent market. Get him.
That would give you Wang, Matsuzaka and Pavano. The Yanks need one more quality starter because in the playoffs you need four guys who on any given night can shut down the opposing team. In the playoffs you have to be able to occasionally win a 3-1 game. Mussina obviously isn't that guy. The only way you can get that fourth guy is to trade for one and the Yanks have two bigtime chits to play if they want: ARod and Cano.
It's time the ARod circus left town and it's a damn shame it had to come to this. But reality must be faced. Even at his best, he's not worth the distraction. Cano is a great young hitter, but it's now two straight postseasons where he's come up small and his play in the field in the third inning yesterday was shockingly bad. I'm not sure that Robbie's value isn't at its absolute peak. Both should be on the block.
The potential blockbuster deals involving ARod and/or Cano are endless and not worth disussing at this point.
As for the pen, Proctor must be shopped. His value also is at it's peak. Myers must be traded. The LOGGY idea is no good to begin with but it's absolutely nutty in this day and age where every team's pitching depth is inadquate. Villone shouldn't be re-signed. I don't know what Dotel is thinking about right now, but if available, he should be brought back. Between the free agent market and internal options the Yanks should not have a problem putting together a topnotch bullpen for '07
Pickup Sheff's option, then package him with some cash money and maybe something else (even Proctor) and that has some real value on the trade market. The Yanks need an honest-to-god first baseman. And while Sal Fasano is fine as a backup catcher, Posada isn't getting younger. Sheff at $9 million to $10 million plus Proctor should be able to get the Yanks a good first baseman or an almost ready top catching prospect. Wright's option should be picked up and he sent elsewhere with some money for prospects.
I predict a wild offseason. The one thing the Yanks shouldn't do is fire Torre and pretend that'll solve any problem at all.
Assuming Kendrick can play 3B...
I don't think you can make that assumption. I saw the Angels try him there when they were desparate for a 3B this year, and the experiement didn't last long. He just doesn't have the arm.
This is why I am not a GM, I like everyone on this team.
I think Torre needs to go. We will either realize how much he meant to us or wonder why we didn't get rid of him sooner
Who I would LIKE to be GOOOONE !!!
Matsui
Giambi
A-rod
Sheffield
Wright
Pavano
Johnson
Then maybe there will be some spark and drive and CHEMISTRY back like when Melky and Co. GOT THEM TO THE POST SEASON !!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
GET RID OF THOSE OVER PAID OVER RATED NO LIFE IN THEM NO CHEMISTRY PATHETIC INJURY RIDDEN LAME EXCUSES FOR STARS !!! GEEZ !!!
We're stuck in the 80's again !!
They just don't get it...Every year getting beat the template they built in the 90's...
HELLOOOOOOO !!!!!
Sheesh...
Willy must be laughing his butt off...
JeterRodriguezSheff
10-08-06, 11:10 AM
RJ has about 16 million reasons to not retire. I am sure he wants 300 wins too, and with the Yankee lineup he can easily get at least 10 next year. I would pitch in pain for a year for 5 million, let alone 16. I expect RJ to come back (which isnt a good thing really).
The thing is Johnson already has enough money for his great great grandchildren to be rich. Of course you would play in pain for that money, you arent rich and thus the money would be worth a lot more to you.
If Johnson stays it will be because of the 300 wins not the money, imo. Whose idea was it to give him a 2 year extension, anyway?
The Q Bomb
10-08-06, 11:40 AM
Right now I'd trade the whole damn team except Mo. (Is he even still on the team?) I have no reason to trade Jeter because he's the only one who looked like he came to compete - well, maybe you can throw Posada in there too - but he did not do his job as a captain in this whole A-Rod saga and I'm ticked over that. I cannot BELIEVE that we lost this series because we are clearly the better team. That's what's so awful about the losses in the last six post seasons - we have clearly been the better team with the possible exception of 2004. Things happen in the post season that cause the best team to lose - but not 5 or 6 times!
That being said, I would not let Mussina go. I think Mussina, my favorite pitcher, gets the more blame for this series loss than any other player. As the ($19 million) ace or 2nd ace, he had to win game two and he had a late inning lead and gave it up. That was the series right there - because I don't think we beat Rogers or Bonderman the way they pitched the last two games, but we would be playing tonight if Mussina does his job. That being said, he can be counted on to win approximately 15 games a year and, as we've seen over the last 6 years, that amount of wins is hard to come by from one pitcher. That's why not resigning Andy was so stupid. You know what he can do - even if the did need arm surgery. You know what he's capable of doing for The Yanks when he recovers. You don't know what another pitcher is capable of doing for The Yanks and it's a chance you take every time you trade for an established pitcher. I'd rather take a chance on another team's prospect.
I love Bernie. He's my favorite Yankee - but I think his time here is up. He can certainly still play and could probably help another team in a limited role, but I don't see him being an effective pinch hitter - the only role he would have on next year's team.
Personally, I know Damon injected life into the clubhouse and did pretty well for us this year, but he clogs up the outfield. I was against getting him (well, basically because he was the face of The Red Sox) because he was too old. I was hoping The Yanks could get Soriano for the outfield or make due with a stop gap CFer until this Tabata prospect was ready. We have Damon for what? Three more years? That is too long. I don't know what kind of deal we could make with him.
I love Sheffield and what he brings to this team - on and off the field. Unfortunately, with the acquisition of Abreu he became surplus - through no fault of his own. The DH position is filled with Giambi and Matsui so I cannot see a place for Sheffield.
Giambi is beyond the point of being traded. I wanted The Yanks to try to trade him for Carl Crawford after the 2003 season. We would have gotten a great, young, outfielder and lead-off hitter and, if we picked up most of Giambi's salary (as we could have afforded to do) The Devil Rays would have gotten a high profile, slugger, whose salary was subsidized. No one would take Giambi now - except maybe Baltimore - although maybe not because they have some young sluggers on that team now so they may be done with aging superstars for awhile. I want to say, I like Giambi and his desire to play - but he is just too injured, too often. I dont' see us being able to move him though.
We will not be able to move Johnson. He was a poor acquisition but not because he failed to live up to expectations. I think he has lived up to expectations for a 41 - 43 year old pitcher. He's won a lot of games for us the last two seasons.
A-Rod - I detailed what a disaster it will be for both him and The Yankees if we have to trade him in another post - but I do not see another way to fix this terribly broken situation. He has been severely and unfairly maligned, while managing to maintain his dignity and civility, and it's too bad. The Yankee team though has suffered because of all the drama surrounding him. I can't imagine who they could trade him for that would give The Yanks anywhere near equal value - and who would play first base?
Farnsworth - Who could we trade him for? Nobody. He was a complete waste of time having so many physical restrictions on when he was available to pitch. Was this a factor with his previous clubs? How did we miss this?
Procotor - I would not trade him, I would just not pitch him until his arm fell off. Maybe it would be good to revisit turning him into a starting pitcher.
Wright - do not resign this 5 inning pitcher.
Dotel - the experiment did not work. Good-bye.
Cano - don't trade under any circumstances. Not even for Willis and Cabrera. There is so much value in having a young, talented, player who can handle playing in The Bronx that it is essential to keep them when you have them.
Wang - needs no explanation.
Posada - stays until he retires. What we do need to get in a trade, if we don't already have one in our system, is a good young catcher who can be groomed from now for 2 or 3 years down the road.
Fasano - a good catcher, but too offensively inept. If there is another good back-up catcher out there go for it. If not keep Fasano. We've changed back-up catchers too much in the last 5 or 6 years.
Jeter - strip him of his captainship :mad: and keep him.! ;) (Is that the symbol for "tongue in cheek"?) The only thing he could have done better this year is support A-Rod as a captain should, his disingenious protestations to the contrary.
Melky - keep him for the same reason you keep Cano. He is not as good as Cano and most likely never will be, but he is a good, young, enthusiastic, player who can obviously handle playing in The Bronx. He has the potential to become a very special player for The Yanks or at the least to be a good, solid, outfielder and a slightly above average offensive player (.280; 70-80; 15). You need those kind of role players on a team, especially one who could be here for his entire career and earn a reasonable salary. For marketing purposes alone, as he is very popular, and will undoubtedly become more so if given the chance, he has value.
Bruney - Keep him. I like him, and who knows, he might become Mo's successor (and we will need one soon). He might not, but at this point, he's a good chance to take.
Villone & Myers - Thanks for your Hurculean efforts throughout the season, Ron, and Myers, for what you did on a few occasions, but let's look for other alternatives.
Torre - He's done a great job but I think, as the expression goes, "It's time for a change." I think his mild-mannered ways have lost some effectiveness with his players. I think he coddles them too much and while I don't think grown men, especially, grown, successful men such as those playing for The Yankees, need a cheerleader or a guy to shake them up - they also might perform better for someone who's not sonnambulent.
Cashman - stays! He did a great job this year. Too bad he doesn't get up to bat!
Trade the assinine fans who don't know how to support their players instead of boo them.
NYIndian2005
10-08-06, 11:55 AM
I watched the team's faces and you can see the change. Then when Detroit tied the score, it was downhill from there.
If they were so affected by the fans then they didn't deserve to win anyway. if you cannot handle postseason pressure better you went home and that's what happened. The fans were not a factor in game3 and game4. The team lost because they choked and could not take the heat. Its asinine to keep believing that we have a group of players who can win. It will be a waste of all our time if we bring this same group back next year and hope for them to get it done. Its not going to happen.
PeteRFNY
10-08-06, 12:08 PM
I am all for a total rebuild around the obvious nucleus. I wanted this team to rebuild 3, 4 years ago. If they'd done that - instead of putting new coats of nasty paint on the same old problems - the team would be just about ready to contend right about now.
Why rebuild? Obviously, the methodology of tired, old free agents on the downside of their prime is NOT working - especially in the pitching area. If the team can unload some of the older talent to hungry teams that would be willing to part with some high-level AAA or young talent, do it. Let them cultivate and mature here. They either end up playing for the Yankees or go in trades for needed talent (something under 40 from now in, please).
Rebuilding makes sense. Do it now, and you will have a team ready to contend just as Yankee Stadium III is ready to open. The downside is you MIGHT miss the playoffs for a couple of years (even that is not a given - look at the Tigers). OR - keep doing things the way they are done now - keep trying to win THIS YEAR - and make the playoffs, but win NOTHING again.
I'd rather not make the playoffs and work to another Dynasty than keep putting the same Rust-O-Leum on the rusting hull that we've been doing since 2002.
There are obvious things that need taking care of:
The Pitching Staff:
Michael Kay said it best on Game 4 the post-game show: aging free-agents have not been working. Look at the teams that have been advancing: young, hard throwing guys that are not afraid of the strike zone. Cash a Co. need to look at what's out there and start dangling the dispensable parts.
Mussina needs to go. He's done nothing to alter that rep he has of being "just good enough to lose". When you want to know why he's never won 20 games in his career, look no further than Game 2. His inability to hold a 2-run lead was the turning point in the ALDS. It caused the offense to press and put tons of pressure on the other pitchers.
Randy Johnson needs to go, but with a no-trade clause, we're probably stuck with him. A best-case scenario would be RJ retiring, but that is not likely to happen. Wright was never meant to be anything other than a #5 starter - but at this stage of his career can only get worse. Should go.
The young pitchers did not embarrass themselves this year. Give Karstens, Beam, Rasner and others a chance to fight for a spot (or two) in Spring Training. They certainly can't do any worse than what we have now.
Everything Else:
More than anything, this team needs a REAL first baseman. If Giambi sticks around, he needs to be the full-time DH as his fielding is atrocious. Phillips has not shown he's 100-plus-game starting material. A problem that needs to be seriously addressed in the off-season.
Melky Cabrera showed himself to be for real by staying consistent until regulated to the bench. Although there is risk to doing this, I'd like to see him be the starting left fielder next season. We have way too many OF/DHs on this team, so let's use some to get younger. Sheff plays hard but is a liability in many ways. I would say "thanks for the monster shots" and bid Sheff farewell. Matsui is a solid player, but his lack of an arm and propensity to be streaky - and getting older - means I would NOT turn down any deal that brings his name up. Abreu fit in well, he should be a keeper. Damon is a solid CF despite having an arm made out of fusilli. Lost the sparkle in his eye when the post-season started - can't let that happen again.
Jeter and Cano are here to stay. Cano needed more pressure-seasoning, but another year under his belt should help. Jete is Jete - never stopped playing hard throughout. That leaves A-rod.
Love him? Hate him? Indifferent? Regardless of what you think, he needs to go somewhere else. Some marriages, no matter how good the courtship or the honeymoon, just don't last. This needs to be written off as another Brad and Jen...Burt and Dolly...whatever. It just didn't work out.
As much as Alex says he wants to stay, does ANYONE want to be there on Opening Day 2007 when his name is read during starting lineups? It will be pretty ugly. I for one do not call out other fans for booing. Booing has been part of the game since Day One. All new players get booed until they win over the fans. Happened to Tino, even Reggie. A-rod just seems to make his own mess worse, and I do not ever see any time when it will get better. So it would probably benefit all parties to start divvying up the living room furniture and part the closest of friends.
Last but not least, I think it is now the appropriate time to bring an end to the Joe Torre era. Joe was definitely the right guy at the start of the Yankees’ turnaround – a calming force in a place that had been filled with chaos. However, all things must come to an end. Even the great Casey Stengel eventually was shown the door as the stagnation of his managing style crept into the players' psyche.
I’d always been non-committal about whether or not Joe should stay, even after the disaster of 2004. That all changed during Game 3 of the ALDS. When Joe didn’t even flinch when that horrific ‘safe’ call was made at third base – no argument, no yelling, not even a swear word – I knew it was his time to go. When asked by a reporter if he planned to speak with the team following the embarrassment of Game 3, Joe replied, “My guys know what they have to do”. Maybe not, Joe – or they would have been doing it. There’s laid back…and then there’s comatose. Joe’s behavior in this ALDS bordered on mummified, and perhaps after 10 years, that’s not what this team needs anymore.
So there you have it – my analysis on what needs to be done before Pitchers and Catchers hit camp in February. Let the games begin!
Brijd10
10-08-06, 12:17 PM
I hadn't really formed a opinion on Torre staying or going until reading your post. However, now I agree with you that Joe needs to go. It's just sad that its had to come to this. Maybe Pinella would put some much needed fire into this team and urgency. Although I'd prefer Girardi.
A-rod
Torre
Mussina
Sheffield
Wright
Bernie
Pavano
I got money on at least half of those being traded or not re-signed. If Johnson retires that would be great. I honestly think the team is in for a major change.
I would add:
Johnson
Giambi
Farnsworth
Lidle
...and that would be a good start. Greatest lineup ever? How about greatest flatline ever.
MatsuiFan55
10-08-06, 01:01 PM
I can understand the argument that the team needs to be rebuilt and made younger. However, we all know that that will never happen. As long as George Steinbrenner is the owner of the New York Yankees. Also, I don't think that the majority of the New York fanbase has the patience to put up with a rebuilding project. I think the only thing that needs to happen is that you have to stop giving out all of these big contracts to guys that are past their prime and guys that are in their prime.
SkooterPhil#10
10-08-06, 01:03 PM
Cashman is the one who needs to go first. Because of him, we currently the laughing stock of baseball. We are going to be paying off huge contracts for the next five years.
ChinMusic
10-08-06, 01:06 PM
Wright's option gets picked up. 157 IP at 4.50 and 11 wins. That's pretty fantastic value for 3 million dollars.
ChinMusic
10-08-06, 01:08 PM
OOps 140 IP at 4.50...still a bargain for 3 million
Chubzilla06
10-08-06, 01:13 PM
Cashman is the one who needs to go first. Because of him, we currently the laughing stock of baseball. We are going to be paying off huge contracts for the next five years.
its not cashmans fault for GS wanting sheffeild over guerrero, or the other vastly over priced contracts, it was the tampa faction tht wanted Pavano, Sheffeild etc....Johnson is cqshman's fault, but how can you blame him for picking him, because up untilt hat point he was the best lefty in the game
Chubzilla06
10-08-06, 01:19 PM
heres what the Yankees need to do
Id trade cabrera and a couple of minors to tamoa for carl crawford.
Id resign Mussina, but not for alot of money, If Rj has back surgery and can pitch, he will be back. MUssina and Johnson now become the 4th and 5th starter. Go After Zambrano or Zito, and the matzawhateverhisnameis. Bring up Philip Hughes
Wang
Zito/ Matza/Zambrano
Hughes
Mussina
Johnson.
I have no idea where to start with the bullpen except, Bruney proctor stay. Get rid of farnsworth.
I wouldnt trade matsui, but I would trade Posada, his value is high right now.
PeteRFNY
10-08-06, 01:22 PM
I can understand the argument that the team needs to be rebuilt and made younger. However, we all know that that will never happen. As long as George Steinbrenner is the owner of the New York Yankees. Also, I don't think that the majority of the New York fanbase has the patience to put up with a rebuilding project. I think the only thing that needs to happen is that you have to stop giving out all of these big contracts to guys that are past their prime and guys that are in their prime.
It's quite possible that because of the failures of the past 5 years, this MAY be the year that George says, "Well, I'm not winning any championships anyway, so...".
If the majority of the New York fanbase can't put up with rebuilding, then they deserve to keep getting teams that are eliminated during the first round of playoffs. I lived with the 1990-1994 teams. I wish we'd been rebuilding the last four years instead of wasting everyone's time and money.
MatsuiFan55
10-08-06, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE][It's quite possible that because of the failures of the past 5 years, this MAY be the year that George says, "Well, I'm not winning any championships anyway, so...".
/QUOTE]
I have to respectfully disagree. George is not getting any younger. You know that he wants to win one more championship before he goes off into the proverbial sunset. He feels that the only way to do that is to spend, spend, and spend some more. There is no way that he will put up with rebuilding before he decides to hand over the franchise to Steve Swindal.
I am all for a total rebuild around the obvious nucleus. I wanted this team to rebuild 3, 4 years ago. If they'd done that - instead of putting new coats of nasty paint on the same old problems - the team would be just about ready to contend right about now.
Why rebuild? Obviously, the methodology of tired, old free agents on the downside of their prime is NOT working - especially in the pitching area. If the team can unload some of the older talent to hungry teams that would be willing to part with some high-level AAA or young talent, do it. Let them cultivate and mature here. They either end up playing for the Yankees or go in trades for needed talent (something under 40 from now in, please).
Rebuilding makes sense. Do it now, and you will have a team ready to contend just as Yankee Stadium III is ready to open. The downside is you MIGHT miss the playoffs for a couple of years (even that is not a given - look at the Tigers). OR - keep doing things the way they are done now - keep trying to win THIS YEAR - and make the playoffs, but win NOTHING again.
I'd rather not make the playoffs and work to another Dynasty than keep putting the same Rust-O-Leum on the rusting hull that we've been doing since 2002.
There are obvious things that need taking care of:
The Pitching Staff:
Michael Kay said it best on Game 4 the post-game show: aging free-agents have not been working. Look at the teams that have been advancing: young, hard throwing guys that are not afraid of the strike zone. Cash a Co. need to look at what's out there and start dangling the dispensable parts.
Mussina needs to go. He's done nothing to alter that rep he has of being "just good enough to lose". When you want to know why he's never won 20 games in his career, look no further than Game 2. His inability to hold a 2-run lead was the turning point in the ALDS. It caused the offense to press and put tons of pressure on the other pitchers.
Randy Johnson needs to go, but with a no-trade clause, we're probably stuck with him. A best-case scenario would be RJ retiring, but that is not likely to happen. Wright was never meant to be anything other than a #5 starter - but at this stage of his career can only get worse. Should go.
The young pitchers did not embarrass themselves this year. Give Karstens, Beam, Rasner and others a chance to fight for a spot (or two) in Spring Training. They certainly can't do any worse than what we have now.
Everything Else:
More than anything, this team needs a REAL first baseman. If Giambi sticks around, he needs to be the full-time DH as his fielding is atrocious. Phillips has not shown he's 100-plus-game starting material. A problem that needs to be seriously addressed in the off-season.
Melky Cabrera showed himself to be for real by staying consistent until regulated to the bench. Although there is risk to doing this, I'd like to see him be the starting left fielder next season. We have way too many OF/DHs on this team, so let's use some to get younger. Sheff plays hard but is a liability in many ways. I would say "thanks for the monster shots" and bid Sheff farewell. Matsui is a solid player, but his lack of an arm and propensity to be streaky - and getting older - means I would NOT turn down any deal that brings his name up. Abreu fit in well, he should be a keeper. Damon is a solid CF despite having an arm made out of fusilli. Lost the sparkle in his eye when the post-season started - can't let that happen again.
Jeter and Cano are here to stay. Cano needed more pressure-seasoning, but another year under his belt should help. Jete is Jete - never stopped playing hard throughout. That leaves A-rod.
Love him? Hate him? Indifferent? Regardless of what you think, he needs to go somewhere else. Some marriages, no matter how good the courtship or the honeymoon, just don't last. This needs to be written off as another Brad and Jen...Burt and Dolly...whatever. It just didn't work out.
As much as Alex says he wants to stay, does ANYONE want to be there on Opening Day 2007 when his name is read during starting lineups? It will be pretty ugly. I for one do not call out other fans for booing. Booing has been part of the game since Day One. All new players get booed until they win over the fans. Happened to Tino, even Reggie. A-rod just seems to make his own mess worse, and I do not ever see any time when it will get better. So it would probably benefit all parties to start divvying up the living room furniture and part the closest of friends.
Last but not least, I think it is now the appropriate time to bring an end to the Joe Torre era. Joe was definitely the right guy at the start of the Yankees’ turnaround – a calming force in a place that had been filled with chaos. However, all things must come to an end. Even the great Casey Stengel eventually was shown the door as the stagnation of his managing style crept into the players' psyche.
I’d always been non-committal about whether or not Joe should stay, even after the disaster of 2004. That all changed during Game 3 of the ALDS. When Joe didn’t even flinch when that horrific ‘safe’ call was made at third base – no argument, no yelling, not even a swear word – I knew it was his time to go. When asked by a reporter if he planned to speak with the team following the embarrassment of Game 3, Joe replied, “My guys know what they have to do”. Maybe not, Joe – or they would have been doing it. There’s laid back…and then there’s comatose. Joe’s behavior in this ALDS bordered on mummified, and perhaps after 10 years, that’s not what this team needs anymore.
So there you have it – my analysis on what needs to be done before Pitchers and Catchers hit camp in February. Let the games begin!
Great read, thanks.
MaximMan121
10-08-06, 01:47 PM
its not cashmans fault for GS wanting sheffeild over guerrero, or the other vastly over priced contracts, it was the tampa faction tht wanted Pavano, Sheffeild etc....Johnson is cqshman's fault, but how can you blame him for picking him, because up untilt hat point he was the best lefty in the game
Of all the acquisitions, it's tough to pin RJ on Cashman. Steinbrenner had repeatedly demanded that we trade for him in the past. We knew he wanted him for ages before he actually came here. Cashman wanted Pavano, and he owned up to that if I remember right. Other than that, the worst contracts that we've given out (Kevin Brown, RJ, Sheffield instead of Vlad, Womack, Jaret Wright) were out of GS and the Tampa faction.
jeetforever
10-08-06, 02:14 PM
Jeter can go too. The whole ................ing situation needs to be changed. There is a bad karma going around during the postseason. and that comes right from the captain. I know it won't happen, but it should.
you are joking, right!?Jeter is the most hungry, driven player on this team to win the WS. HE's giving off a bad karma?!? The BAD apple in the clubhouse is K-Rod. I'll help him pack his bags....:-bye-:
YankeePride1967
10-08-06, 02:17 PM
Anyone can go as far as I'm concerned if the return is right.
b_joseph
10-08-06, 02:17 PM
When is it time to take a step back from the situation and breathe??
When you ask for Jeter to be traded this off-season.
YankeePride1967
10-08-06, 02:19 PM
When is it time to take a step back from the situation and breathe??
When you ask for Jeter to be traded this off-season.
I don't think much that is said in the first day or so after a season ends should be taken too seriously. Emotion clouds judgement. That being said, I am of the philosophy that there is no such thing as an untradable player. I wouldn't look to trade some but if someone comes with the right offer, why not? That being said, I'd have to be overwhelmed far beyond a realistic trade offer for players like Mo, Jeter, Wang. The offer for those would never come that would be done.
b_joseph
10-08-06, 02:22 PM
I don't think much that is said in the first day or so after a season ends should be taken too seriously. Emotion clouds judgement. That being said, I am of the philosophy that there is no such thing as an untradable player. I wouldn't look to trade some but if someone comes with the right offer, why not? That being said, I'd have to be overwhelmed far beyond a realistic trade offer for players like Mo, Jeter, Wang. The offer for those would never come that would be done.
True..everyone is fair game. But we have certain players on this team that are core/nucleus type players.
I understand that people are emotional right now...but there is a line and certain people may have crossed it.
Spiker101
10-08-06, 02:23 PM
When is it time to take a step back from the situation and breathe??
When you ask for Jeter to be traded this off-season.
Yeah, that might be a pretty good indication that things are getting a wee bit overheated.:D
MWholers
10-08-06, 02:25 PM
Bring back former ROY and All-Star Mark to set up for Mo!
YankeePride1967
10-08-06, 02:27 PM
True..everyone is fair game. But we have certain players on this team that are core/nucleus type players.
I understand that people are emotional right now...but there is a line and certain people may have crossed it.
It is laughable when people try to call Jeter part of the problem this year.
cmaff05
10-08-06, 02:29 PM
Like it or not, Jeter was the problem in our 2004 playoff collapse.
MWholers
10-08-06, 02:33 PM
Like it or not, Jeter was the problem in our 2004 playoff collapse.
AGREEANCE. The only thing tangible about his intangibles are their intangibility!
yankees246
10-08-06, 02:33 PM
Keeping Matsui could bode good for the Japanese market for years to come. If we drop him we could lose respect of Japanese teams, thereforth not getting the stars. Teach Matsui to play 1st in the offseason, DH Giambi, play Melky in left.
Good points and not a bad idea. Could Matsui really handle first base?
Soriambi
10-08-06, 02:38 PM
Jeter can go too. The whole ................ing situation needs to be changed. There is a bad karma going around during the postseason. and that comes right from the captain. I know it won't happen, but it should.
I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic here, so if you are I'm sorry, but I didn't pick it up.
That being said, this makes no sense to me whatsoever. First, Jeter hit .500 in the ALDS. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do, exactly. As for the "bad karma" and Jeter being a part of it, A. Don't you think that it's at least equally likely that we just haven't won in the last several years because it's hard to win a World Series rather than some kind of karma keeping us from winning? B. Why would it come from Jeter, if in fact there is some magical karma keeping us from winning?
cmaff05
10-08-06, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure whether you're being sarcastic here, so if you are I'm sorry, but I didn't pick it up.
That being said, this makes no sense to me whatsoever. First, Jeter hit .500 in the ALDS. I'm not sure what else he's supposed to do, exactly. As for the "bad karma" and Jeter being a part of it, A. Don't you think that it's at least equally likely that we just haven't won in the last several years because it's hard to win a World Series rather than some kind of karma keeping us from winning? B. Why would it come from Jeter, if in fact there is some magical karma keeping us from winning?
Jeter has been reponsible for some of our postseason collapses over the last few years. Like it or not, that's the way it is. He is as much to blame as anybody.
buntsalot2
10-08-06, 02:44 PM
[quote=JeterRodriguezSheff]A-rod
Torre
Mussina
Sheffield
Wright
Bernie
Pavano
quote]
quite surprised to see Torre on your list... but, in view of his failure to deliver a WS champion team with the budget and what not... well, I finally renege and agree!
add:
Farnsy
Migey
Meyers
Liddle
Phillips
Wilson
Dotel
Pay off RJ
then fill with:
Karstens
KT
Canizzaro
Rasner
Reese
E. Duncan
Mr. Hughes
Cox
sign:
Zito
and 4 other FAs
Soriambi
10-08-06, 02:45 PM
Jeter has been reponsible for some of our postseason collapses over the last few years. Like it or not, that's the way it is. He is as much to blame as anybody.
Which collapses are you referring to specifically? (that he is responsible for)
mr. coffee
10-08-06, 02:47 PM
Arod for Dontrelle if that happens I will be happy
I like this idea. Along the lines of the way-out ballsy suggestions: I was thinking A-Rod for Papelbon and some prospects... We could use a guy like that in mid-relief (and, as an insurance policy against Mo's arm falling off.)
b_joseph
10-08-06, 02:48 PM
Like it or not, Jeter was the problem in our 2004 playoff collapse.
He was THE problem or one of the problems?
Obviously he is one of the problems when we fail, because you win and lose as a team.
Anyway..why are we talking about 2004? That is long erased from memory.
Infact..problem is the wrong word.
mr. coffee
10-08-06, 02:52 PM
Jeter has been reponsible for some of our postseason collapses over the last few years. Like it or not, that's the way it is. He is as much to blame as anybody.
Huh? What? Have you been watching the same games we're all watching? Check your cable box. Maybe you're getting some sort of unfiltered anti-Yankee ESPN feed.
There's simply no way to substantiate that claim.
yankees246
10-08-06, 02:54 PM
There is one player that hasn't been mentioned at all.
The 10th player.
The spoiled, entitled, bloodthirsty Yankee fans who booed the hell out of players and had no idea how much it affects the entire team. I go to games a lot and what I saw this year from the Yankees fans was appalling. No wonder a lot of good players don't want to come here. Between the media and the fans who wants this BS.
I think we need to get rid of the classless Yankee fans who don't know how to act when their team is down, when a player is in a slump. IT happens and it will happen again. It's high time we change our perspective and stop acting like we are in Rome watching a Gladiator show. I don't care how much money you pay to see a game. You can watch it free at home. Respect the game, respect the team, respect the children in the stadium who have to be subjected to such garbage. Most importantly, respect yourselves.
Dee
:eek: :clap::rockin: Thank you for including the children on your post and the example people set at the stadium when they are yelling expletives.
Slioman
10-08-06, 03:02 PM
Good points and not a bad idea. Could Matsui really handle first base?
Granted that Sheffield didn't have much time to train for 1B I think Matsui could do a decent job. I know Sheff was a 3B, but 1B is a fairly easy position to play and if he works on it during the offseason and spring training I believe we have a good shot at a starting 1B.
cmaff05
10-08-06, 03:03 PM
Which collapses are you referring to specifically? (that he is responsible for)
2004 ALCS - hitting .200 that entire series
2006 ALDS - like Arod, fattening up his stats in the first game (in Arod's case in 2004 ALCS, in the first few games) and then not doing much afterwards.
South Facing Epitaph
10-08-06, 03:08 PM
2004 ALCS - hitting .200 that entire series
2006 ALDS - like Arod, fattening up his stats in the first game (in Arod's case in 2004 ALCS, in the first few games) and then not doing much afterwards.
Jeter had 5 RBIs over the final 3 games in 2004 and had a hit in every game of the ALDS this year. Try again.
Actually don't try again, you've already made a fool of yourself on enough occassions.
JetahFan
10-08-06, 03:12 PM
A-Rod and cash (maybe 3-4 million a year) to the Angels for Chone Figgins, who becomes the everyday 3rd baseman and slides between Damon and Jeter in the batting order. Derek should easily drive in 110 runs battting third behind them next year.
.
Figgins is useless. He's fast but he never gets on base to use his speed. He also has no power at all and although he can play many positions he doesn't play any of them that great except CF. He also has no arm,
Trading a player of A-Rod's caliber for Figgins would be really bad.
Soriambi
10-08-06, 03:12 PM
2004 ALCS - hitting .200 that entire series
2006 ALDS - like Arod, fattening up his stats in the first game (in Arod's case in 2004 ALCS, in the first few games) and then not doing much afterwards.
2004 ALCS: He did not have a great series, but he did get a huge, huge hit in Game 5 with the bases loaded and two outs to give us a 4-2 lead, and he did drive in five in the series. Of course, it ended up not making a difference, but that was a huge hit at the time. Also, chances are if you're in enough series you're going to have bad ones. He had a fine ALDS in 2004 as well.
2006 ALDS: I just don't understand how you can find anyone who hit .500 in a series the most to blame or even a large portion to blame for losing it, especially when there were a bunch of guys with 1 or 2 hits all series.
I just can't see how anyone thinks that Derek Jeter is the biggest or one of the biggest problems with this team and wants him traded.
Soriambi
10-08-06, 03:13 PM
Figgins is useless. He's fast but he never gets on base to use his speed. He also has no power at all and although he can play many positions he doesn't play any of them that great except CF. He also has no arm,
Trading a player of A-Rod's caliber for Figgins would be really bad.
Agreed very much. A straight up trade of A-rod for Figgins would be a complete disaster in my view.
Grxmites
10-08-06, 03:17 PM
damn i dont know what to say
Trade
1.Wright, absolute Garbage
2.Pavano, Get rid of him
3.Randy Johnson, obviously the older he gets the more injured he gets.last year it was his arm and now its his hurniated disc
b_joseph
10-08-06, 03:18 PM
I just can't see how anyone thinks that Derek Jeter is the biggest or one of the biggest problems with this team and wants him traded.
Knee jerk reaction from people that are sick of seeing Alex get jumped upon.
27n2005
10-08-06, 03:19 PM
Please keep in mind that any trade for ARod would likely require the Yankees to pay a lot of money -- even with the Rangers already picking up a healthy portion of ARod's deal -- or for the team receiving him to pay his still-hefty salary. If the Yankees pay more than $1 million toward ARod's salary, the deal will require the approval of the Commissioner's Office.
This means two things:
(1) There is NO WAY the Commissioner's Office will let the Yankees pick up enough of ARod's deal for him to go to a team like Florida.
(2) Any deal for ARod that requires the Yankees to pay little or no money will require the Yankees to take on a bad contract a la the Abreu/Lidle deal. So find the worst contracts in baseball right now (Adrian Beltre's deal in Seattle, Pedro's with the Mets and Orlando Cabrera's deal in LA come to mind) and figure out how the Yankees can swing a deal with those teams.
Soriambi
10-08-06, 03:21 PM
Knee jerk reaction from people that are sick of seeing Alex get jumped upon.
Maybe so. I hate seeing Alex get jumped on, but I'm not going to blame Derek Jeter for something like this because of it. I think that they are two completely different people, but it seems like they're competing with each or something sometimes with the "Well Jeter didn't ____ either" or "But Jeter only _____" defenses. I don't understand why they can't just both be excellent players who play for the same team who we are lucky to be able to watch. I hope that they're both here next year and for many years to come.
bambam51
10-08-06, 03:28 PM
I am all for a total rebuild around the obvious nucleus. I wanted this team to rebuild 3, 4 years ago. If they'd done that - instead of putting new coats of nasty paint on the same old problems - the team would be just about ready to contend right about now.
Why rebuild? Obviously, the methodology of tired, old free agents on the downside of their prime is NOT working - especially in the pitching area. If the team can unload some of the older talent to hungry teams that would be willing to part with some high-level AAA or young talent, do it. Let them cultivate and mature here. They either end up playing for the Yankees or go in trades for needed talent (something under 40 from now in, please).
Rebuilding makes sense. Do it now, and you will have a team ready to contend just as Yankee Stadium III is ready to open. The downside is you MIGHT miss the playoffs for a couple of years (even that is not a given - look at the Tigers). OR - keep doing things the way they are done now - keep trying to win THIS YEAR - and make the playoffs, but win NOTHING again.
I'd rather not make the playoffs and work to another Dynasty than keep putting the same Rust-O-Leum on the rusting hull that we've been doing since 2002.
There are obvious things that need taking care of:
The Pitching Staff:
Michael Kay said it best on Game 4 the post-game show: aging free-agents have not been working. Look at the teams that have been advancing: young, hard throwing guys that are not afraid of the strike zone. Cash a Co. need to look at what's out there and start dangling the dispensable parts.
Mussina needs to go. He's done nothing to alter that rep he has of being "just good enough to lose". When you want to know why he's never won 20 games in his career, look no further than Game 2. His inability to hold a 2-run lead was the turning point in the ALDS. It caused the offense to press and put tons of pressure on the other pitchers.
Randy Johnson needs to go, but with a no-trade clause, we're probably stuck with him. A best-case scenario would be RJ retiring, but that is not likely to happen. Wright was never meant to be anything other than a #5 starter - but at this stage of his career can only get worse. Should go.
The young pitchers did not embarrass themselves this year. Give Karstens, Beam, Rasner and others a chance to fight for a spot (or two) in Spring Training. They certainly can't do any worse than what we have now.
Everything Else:
More than anything, this team needs a REAL first baseman. If Giambi sticks around, he needs to be the full-time DH as his fielding is atrocious. Phillips has not shown he's 100-plus-game starting material. A problem that needs to be seriously addressed in the off-season.
Melky Cabrera showed himself to be for real by staying consistent until regulated to the bench. Although there is risk to doing this, I'd like to see him be the starting left fielder next season. We have way too many OF/DHs on this team, so let's use some to get younger. Sheff plays hard but is a liability in many ways. I would say "thanks for the monster shots" and bid Sheff farewell. Matsui is a solid player, but his lack of an arm and propensity to be streaky - and getting older - means I would NOT turn down any deal that brings his name up. Abreu fit in well, he should be a keeper. Damon is a solid CF despite having an arm made out of fusilli. Lost the sparkle in his eye when the post-season started - can't let that happen again.
Jeter and Cano are here to stay. Cano needed more pressure-seasoning, but another year under his belt should help. Jete is Jete - never stopped playing hard throughout. That leaves A-rod.
Love him? Hate him? Indifferent? Regardless of what you think, he needs to go somewhere else. Some marriages, no matter how good the courtship or the honeymoon, just don't last. This needs to be written off as another Brad and Jen...Burt and Dolly...whatever. It just didn't work out.
As much as Alex says he wants to stay, does ANYONE want to be there on Opening Day 2007 when his name is read during starting lineups? It will be pretty ugly. I for one do not call out other fans for booing. Booing has been part of the game since Day One. All new players get booed until they win over the fans. Happened to Tino, even Reggie. A-rod just seems to make his own mess worse, and I do not ever see any time when it will get better. So it would probably benefit all parties to start divvying up the living room furniture and part the closest of friends.
Last but not least, I think it is now the appropriate time to bring an end to the Joe Torre era. Joe was definitely the right guy at the start of the Yankees’ turnaround – a calming force in a place that had been filled with chaos. However, all things must come to an end. Even the great Casey Stengel eventually was shown the door as the stagnation of his managing style crept into the players' psyche.
I’d always been non-committal about whether or not Joe should stay, even after the disaster of 2004. That all changed during Game 3 of the ALDS. When Joe didn’t even flinch when that horrific ‘safe’ call was made at third base – no argument, no yelling, not even a swear word – I knew it was his time to go. When asked by a reporter if he planned to speak with the team following the embarrassment of Game 3, Joe replied, “My guys know what they have to do”. Maybe not, Joe – or they would have been doing it. There’s laid back…and then there’s comatose. Joe’s behavior in this ALDS bordered on mummified, and perhaps after 10 years, that’s not what this team needs anymore.
So there you have it – my analysis on what needs to be done before Pitchers and Catchers hit camp in February. Let the games begin!
Nice post. But I'm not sold on firing Torre. Otherwise...a good strategy. The only thing I would suggest is that the Yankees spend some money on FA pitchers Zito and Matsuzaka. Both are young, will give innings and will keep the team competitive in the rebuilding phase.
Keeper Starters: Wang, Hughes, Rasner, Karstens, Clippard
Add: Zito and Matsuzaka
Keeper Hitters: Posada, Giambi (DH), Cano, Jeter, Abreu, Damon, Melky
Add: A real first baseman and a different 3rd baseman
Keeper Relievers: Rivera, Farnsworth, Proctor, Bruney, Cox
We might be stuck with Pavano and Johnson but we're certainly not stuck with AROD, Sheffield, Mussina, Wright, Matsui (in the right deal), Lidle, Villone, Dotel, Myers, Bernie...
IMissBillyM
10-08-06, 03:31 PM
Im not in any pain, Im calm. If this team fought and battled and still lost it would hurt. However it was clear from the first inning today that they dont really care. So I dont care about this group of players.
Seriously half the team needs to go.
Exactly! These guys were listless out there. No emotion, no nothing. We were severely outplayed, out pitched, out hustled and out managed. It was simply a team built to play a 162 game schedule. Any of the other playoff teams would've handed it to us in a short series. We had no chance from the get go.
southernNYYfan
10-08-06, 03:39 PM
I agree with most everyone in saying that Wright, Pavano, Johnson, Sheffield all need to be gone. Hopefully the Yankees can get Matasuzaka to solify their rotation.
cmaff05
10-08-06, 03:41 PM
2004 ALCS: He did not have a great series, but he did get a huge, huge hit in Game 5 with the bases loaded and two outs to give us a 4-2 lead, and he did drive in five in the series. Of course, it ended up not making a difference, but that was a huge hit at the time. Also, chances are if you're in enough series you're going to have bad ones. He had a fine ALDS in 2004 as well.
Where was he in Game 6 before the 8th inning? Nowhere to be found. One big hit doesn't forget the fact that he was quiet that whole series. Arod had a much better series than him, and for some reason Jeter is never blamed for this series.
2006 ALDS: I just don't understand how you can find anyone who hit .500 in a series the most to blame or even a large portion to blame for losing it, especially when there were a bunch of guys with 1 or 2 hits all series.
He fattened up on the first game, and didn't do much for the rest of the series. Of course he doesn't deserve as much blame as most people, but he wasn't as consistent as Posada in this series.
I just can't see how anyone thinks that Derek Jeter is the biggest or one of the biggest problems with this team and wants him traded.
He isn't the problem with this team. Nor should he be traded. But he has been part of our past postseason collapses.
A
TheTinoMobile
10-08-06, 03:46 PM
Keeper Starters: Wang, Hughes, Rasner, Karstens, Clippard
Add: Zito and Matsuzaka
Keeper Hitters: A-Rod, Posada, Giambi (DH), Cano, Jeter, Abreu, Damon, Melky
You can't get rid of Sheffield, AND A-rod, you lose too much production. For as unclutch as A-Rod is, Gary Sheffield is no Derek Jeter or David Ortiz. There is no position for him on this team, and he is not a viable option at first base. He's too lazy to lift his glove to catch a ball properly.
Alex will be Alex, it's something we're going to have to deal with, he's going to use his NTC, because I don't think he wants to give the media or fans the luxury of calling him a NY failure. He'll still hit 35-40 hr with 120 rbi's and bat near .300. Which is good enough for me. Hopefully his fielding improves in the offseason, and I think there is a good chance it will if he can lose some mass.
On your starters list I agree with adding Zito AND Matsuzaka, but I don't think we will have much need for Rasner or Karstens short of long inning relief if we do. We're stuck with Johnson, and as bad as Mussina was at the end of this year he's still good enough to be a 3rd starter on this team. As for Hughes and Clippard, as everyone has told me when i suggested it, and I now realize, we can't force them up too quickly.
That leaves us with: Wang, Matz, Zito, Mussina, Johnson (Carla Pavano on the Disabled List to start the season as usual) if everything goes right. If we can't get one of the two in Zito / Matz THEN we can insert Clippard, but not Hughes.
We can use Karstens / Rasner out of the Pen. Let Karstens and Rasner handle long relief / damage control. Pick up a serviceable lefty or two, including a LOOGY, Keep Bruney out there, and then the usual the ProFarMo.
mjdlight
10-08-06, 03:49 PM
Alex will be Alex, it's something we're going to have to deal with, he's going to use his NTC, because I don't think he wants to give the media or fans the luxury of calling him a NY failure. He'll still hit 35-40 hr with 120 rbi's and bat near .300. Which is good enough for me. Hopefully his fielding improves in the offseason, and I think there is a good chance it will if he can lose some mass.
How about playing Arod for the regular season and then leaving him off the post-season roster? Works for me! :)
TheTinoMobile
10-08-06, 04:00 PM
How about playing Arod for the regular season and then leaving him off the post-season roster? Works for me! :)
Yeah... but there are 8 other guys on the lineup card that should be able to put up some runs. As bad as Alex has been in the post season.. the team as a whole has been just as bad.
OhioYankee1903
10-08-06, 04:00 PM
A-rod
Torre
Mussina
Sheffield
Wright
Bernie
Pavano
I got money on at least half of those being traded or not re-signed. If Johnson retires that would be great. I honestly think the team is in for a major change.
The Boss needs to shake up the team. They have all but two guys that are contracted for '07. Don't sign or pick up the option on Mussina and Sheff. Yanks should go after Zito and not re-sign Mussina. Zito I think would bring some relaxation and fun to the club house. Let Melky's hard playing and hunger start in right field. Yanks don't need all-stars. They need hungry, and players that have something to prove. Not players that just care about there numbers. Don't sign Bernie. Go with youth and a player that can give you a spark of the bench. Not a guy that swings at pitches that hit the ground before crossing the plate. Can't do nothing with Wright or Pavano and there high contracts. I would put Wright in the bullpen. He only has 2 pitches so he would be perfect there. Just hope Pavano will be healthy my spring break.
On A-Rod. Your never going to get full value in a trade. Plus there going to have to pay the majority of his contract so you mine as well keep him. I honestly think he just had a bad year mentally. If I was him I would go and work with Jim Brown. See really how tuff life is.
Big thing is they don't have any chemistry. It seems like they don't know eachother when reading comments they made when A-Rod was struggling. They need to take a vacation together, but not on a boat with Cullpepper.
shotgun_sam
10-08-06, 04:10 PM
why...why all the hate for Mussina?
oh, all he did was help us win the division this year.
Spiker101
10-08-06, 04:12 PM
Where was he in Game 6 before the 8th inning? Nowhere to be found. One big hit doesn't forget the fact that he was quiet that whole series. Arod had a much better series than him, and for some reason Jeter is never blamed for this series.
He fattened up on the first game, and didn't do much for the rest of the series. Of course he doesn't deserve as much blame as most people, but he wasn't as consistent as Posada in this series.
He isn't the problem with this team. Nor should he be traded. But he has been part of our past postseason collapses.
A
I know you're frustrated; we all are. But this business about Jeter failing in posteason is silly. Everyone who plays in the postseason long enough fails from time to time.
Babe Ruth probably cost the Yanks the '22 World Series when he turned in a .401 OPS. Gehrig didn't help much in '38 with his .661 OPS. DiMaggio positively stunk up the post season most years. His career .750 postseason OPS is about 100 points lower than Jeter's. And Mickey Mantle had back to back World Series (1961-62) in which his OPS numbers were .334 and .401. It's part of the game.
cmaff05
10-08-06, 04:14 PM
I know you're frustrated; we all are. But this business about Jeter failing in posteason is silly. Everyone who plays in the postseason long enough fails from time to time.
Babe Ruth probably cost the Yanks the '22 World Series when he turned in a .401 OPS. Gehrig didn't help much in '38 with his .661 OPS. DiMaggio positively stunk up the post season most years. His career .750 postseason OPS is about 100 points lower than Jeter's. And Mickey Mantle had back to back World Series (1961-62) in which his OPS numbers were .334 and .401. It's part of the game.
Already, but the same thing has to go for Arod also. He has played in plenty of postseasons, was incredible in the ALDS, was decent in the first four games of the ALCS and just fell off the map then. If Jeter gets the same pass, so should Arod.
Soriambi
10-08-06, 04:23 PM
Already, but the same thing has to go for Arod also. He has played in plenty of postseasons, was incredible in the ALDS, was decent in the first four games of the ALCS and just fell off the map then. If Jeter gets the same pass, so should Arod.
Absolutely. I think that the criticism that A-rod gets for "always" failing in the post-season is ridiculous. Just because A-rod gets the criticism doesn't mean that Jeter deserves it as well, though.
audio101
10-08-06, 04:36 PM
Mussina has always just been an average over paid pitcher at best, Dibble has explained this over and over again on his XM show. No point in bringing him back, he never dominated in the playoffs so its time for him to go.
Slioman
10-08-06, 04:38 PM
Mussina has always just been an average over paid pitcher at best, Dibble has explained this over and over again on his XM show. No point in bringing him back, he never dominated in the playoffs so its time for him to go.
Who would you replace him with?
cmaff05
10-08-06, 04:40 PM
Who would you replace him with?
Some people here think that Jeff Karstens is as good as Mike Mussina. That's all you need to know.
audio101
10-08-06, 04:41 PM
Jason Schmidt, he wont command a price as much as Zito and if he's 100 percent healthy he has a chance at winning 15-20 games plus he's came up big for the Giants in the Playoffs.
ryanm1058123
10-08-06, 04:43 PM
Trade for Chone Figgins and sit him in Scranton. It will improve our record against LAA by at least 3 or 4 games ;)
MissingBillyMartin
10-08-06, 05:11 PM
We need to completely rebuild the rotation. The rotation is completely unacceptable by Yankee standards. Wang is the only starter we should stick with. Get rid of Johnson, Wright, and Pavano. Trade them for nothing. Pay their contracts, who caes. As long as they are gone. Maybe if Moose takes a healthy discount take him back but what happens when he goes back to 2005 form? Get Zito and Matsuzaka. Hell bid on Schidmt. The biggest thing we can do if we aren't going to get these players is make it hell of expensive for the Red Sox.
audio101
10-08-06, 05:34 PM
Zito is hit and miss, sometimes he's great but sometimes he horrible. Over paying for him just doesn't seem like a smart move, their pitching will be bad for awhile until they are able to craft young players from their farm system. Over paying for pitching always back fires.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 05:41 PM
Jason Schmidt, he wont command a price as much as Zito and if he's 100 percent healthy he has a chance at winning 15-20 games plus he's came up big for the Giants in the Playoffs.
Replacing Moose with Schmidt would be smart...
Slioman
10-08-06, 05:48 PM
Replacing Moose with Schmidt would be smart...
Now, this is just me, but I'd rather have Mussina for a single year via option than have Schmidt locked up for several. It'd leave more room for Clippard and Hughes.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 05:50 PM
Now, this is just me, but I'd rather have Mussina for a single year via option than have Schmidt locked up for several. It'd leave more room for Clippard and Hughes.
Schmidt is much younger than Moose. And there is still room for them considering RJ will be coming off the books, as well as Moose if we do pick up his option the following year...
Zimmers' Helmet
10-08-06, 05:55 PM
Now, this is just me, but I'd rather have Mussina for a single year via option than have Schmidt locked up for several. It'd leave more room for Clippard and Hughes.
Agreed. Schmidt is up there in age too. and besides the Yankees really need to focus on a combination of quality AND youth when it comes to the pitching staff. I'd much rather see Clippard in the rotation out of Spring Training, and promote Hughes by the All Star break if he shows that he's ready.
For better or for worse, I DO believe that Zito will be wearing pinstripes in '07. It's still a better gamble than Wright/Pavano/Johnson have been IMO.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 05:56 PM
Agreed. Schmidt is up there in age too. and besides the Yankees really need to focus on a combination of quality AND youth when it comes to the pitching staff. I'd much rather see Clippard in the rotation out of Spring Training, and promote Hughes by the All Star break if he shows that he's ready.
For better or for worse, I DO believe that Zito will be wearing pinstripes in '07. It's still a better gamble than Wright/Pavano/Johnson have been IMO.
You can't expect Clippard to be anywhere near the pitcher Schmidt is out of the gate...
flymick24
10-08-06, 06:04 PM
You can't expect Clippard to be anywhere near the pitcher Schmidt is out of the gate...
schmidt is just as much of a crapshoot as clippard is, imo.
the NL to AL transition is so erratic that it's presumptous to think that schmidt would be good for the yankees right out of the gate, even if he is a power pitcher. besides, his K rates have been down significantly anyway since his peak in 2004, and he's always an injury waiting to happen. plus, he's 33, which isn't that old, but if his numbers are any indication, he's already begun his decline. why would we want to invest serious amounts of money in him?
if we're going to throw money at FA pitchers, we might as well focus on young, durable arms. and while schmidt would probably be cheaper than zito or even matsuzaka for that matter, there's still too many risks involved, imo. clippard is, in the very least, a cheaper, safer bet... he has the yankee pedigree, has proven to be an innings eater, and could be sent down to AAA if he craps the bed. if schmidt were to crap the bed, we'd be stuck with another financial abortion.
Zimmers' Helmet
10-08-06, 06:16 PM
You can't expect Clippard to be anywhere near the pitcher Schmidt is out of the gate...
Maybe, maybe not, but I DO expect him to be better than Schmidt by 2008 and beyond, and that only going to happen if he gains some valuable experience in 2007.
Sooner or later we have to break these kids in and bite the bullet. The alternative is going out and signing more bad contracts for over-hyped and under-productive pitchers such as Wright/Pavano/Johnson. Hasn't worked out that great so far, has it?
This is why I would rather re-sign Moose for 1 year instead of signing Schmidt for 3-4 years.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:16 PM
schmidt is just as much of a crapshoot as clippard is, imo.
the NL to AL transition is so erratic that it's presumptous to think that schmidt would be good for the yankees right out of the gate, even if he is a power pitcher. besides, his K rates have been down significantly anyway since his peak in 2004, and he's always an injury waiting to happen. plus, he's 33, which isn't that old, but if his numbers are any indication, he's already begun his decline. why would we want to invest serious amounts of money in him?
Last 5 years he has pitched over 170+ innings, 3 times over 200, thats fine with me. His ERA the last 5 years, 3.45, 2.34, 3.20, 4.40, 3.59, that is still really solid. Again if the choice is between Mussina for two years or Schmidt for 3-4, I'll take Schmidt.
if we're going to throw money at FA pitchers, we might as well focus on young, durable arms. and while schmidt would probably be cheaper than zito or even matsuzaka for that matter, there's still too many risks involved, imo.
There are many risks involved in any long term deal, Zito has proven to suck in the AL East, Schmidt's numbers against AL East teams have been good. He just looks like a pitcher who could do well in the Al, reminds me of Schilling, big build, power fastball, great curve, great split...
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:18 PM
Maybe, maybe not, but I DO expect him to be better than Schmidt by 2008 and beyond, and that only going to happen if he gains some valuable experience in 2007.
Sooner or later we have to break these kids in and bite the bullet. The alternative is going out and signing more bad contracts for over-hyped and under-productive pitchers such as Wright/Pavano/Johnson. Hasn't worked out that great so far, has it?
This is why I would rather re-sign Moose for 1 year instead of signing Schmidt for 3-4 years.
Schmidt doesn't compare to past signings of Wright/Pavano/RJ, he actually has a great history and is still 33, his body is a certain build that is less likely to break down...
EDIT: Also Moose has been crap for two years before this year, barely league average, and in the second half and the playoffs he reverted to that form. You want to get younger but yet you want to keep someone who is 37?
flymick24
10-08-06, 06:23 PM
Schmidt doesn't compare to past signings of Wright/Pavano/RJ, he actually has a great history and is still 33, his body is a certain build that is less likely to break down...
EDIT: Also Moose has been crap for two years before this year, barely league average, and in the second half and the playoffs he reverted to that form. You want to get younger but yet you want to keep someone who is 37?
he has had serious arm problems in the past and as recent as last year... his build is irrelevant.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:27 PM
he has had serious arm problems in the past and as recent as last year... his build is irrelevant.
Like I said he is still 33 and still in the last 5 years has pitched over 170+ inngs and 3 times over 200+, he still eats innings despite problems. And he has gotten over his arm problems, as he as shown this year...
Zimmers' Helmet
10-08-06, 06:28 PM
Schmidt doesn't compare to past signings of Wright/Pavano/RJ, he actually has a great history and is still 33, his body is a certain build that is less likely to break down...
EDIT: Also Moose has been crap for two years before this year, barely league average, and in the second half and the playoffs he reverted to that form. You want to get younger but yet you want to keep someone who is 37?
I respectfully disagree 100%
Moose is already NY tested and has a better knowledge of AL hitters than Schmidt; but most importantly, it's for 1 year which doesn't clog up the payroll long term like signing Schmidt would. I'm not crazy about Moose either but realistically, if he can be signed for only 1 year he is a much smaller gamble than Schmidt hands down.
Last I checked Schmidt got knocked around pretty hard in 2005. Who's to say it's not a sign of things to come? Never judge a pitcher on what he's done in his walk year.
Jumpman_DJ
10-08-06, 06:31 PM
You are an absolute idiot kid.
I could not agree more, who is this guy. Trade Jeter, not in this lifetime or any other for that matter!
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:36 PM
I respectfully disagree 100%
Moose is already NY tested and has a better knowledge of AL hitters than Schmidt; but most importantly, it's for 1 year which doesn't clog up the payroll long term like signing Schmidt would. I'm not crazy about Moose either but realistically, if he can be signed for only 1 year he is a much smaller gamble than Schmidt hands down.
Last I checked Schmidt got knocked around pretty hard in 2005. Who's to say it's not a sign of things to come? Never judge a pitcher on what he's done in his walk year.
He got knocked around in 2005 because of a shoulder strain, I'm not judging him on his walk year, I'm judging him on the last 5 years. 2005 happened to be his only bad year. This NY tested thing doesn't apply, this isn't a young rookie, he is a 12 year veteran. I just think he would do well here, and you're going to need someone if RJ and Moose are gone...
JeffWeaverFan
10-08-06, 06:36 PM
Trade A-Rod and RJ. Get rid of Wright, Sheff, Villone, and Moose (maybe). Callup Hughes and Clippard and sign Matsuzaka.
Our rotation will be Wang, Matsuzaka, Jared Weaver or Ervin Santana (in the A-Rod deal), Hughes, Clippard.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:38 PM
Thats fine with me JWF, but a lot of people seem to be against bring Hughes up to start the season...
Col. Jacob Ruppert
10-08-06, 06:38 PM
I would rather have Zito over Schmidt simply because Zito is more durable. I think durability is huge when signing FA pitchers and both Moose and Schmidt have been nicked up over the past couple of seasons.
JetahFan
10-08-06, 06:41 PM
Hello guys,
I do not understand why some of you are including Pavano in next year's rotation as a #3 or #4. THe guy hasn't pitched since Spring of 2005 and there's no indication he will next year. He is content to sit on his butt and make 10 mil a year.
JeffWeaverFan
10-08-06, 06:41 PM
Thats fine with me JWF, but a lot of people seem to be against bring Hughes up to start the season...
I don't see why he shouldn't be. He's ready.
JeffWeaverFan
10-08-06, 06:42 PM
Hello guys,
I do not understand why some of you are including Pavano in next year's rotation as a #3 or #4. THe guy hasn't pitched since Spring of 2005 and there's no indication he will next year. He is content to sit on his butt and make 10 mil a year.
I didn't realize people were... I think most Yankee fans (and, most importantly, the Yankee front office) have absolutely no faith in Pavano and will not think of him as someone on the team.
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:43 PM
I don't see why he shouldn't be. He's ready.
IP? :dunno: His stuff is certainly there...
mjaveline
10-08-06, 06:49 PM
Torre
Jeter
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Cabrera
Williams
Rivera
RhodeyYankee2638
10-08-06, 06:49 PM
IP? :dunno: His stuff is certainly there...
Wright pitched 140 innings this year, Hughes clocked in with 148. I would expect Hughes can at least take over the 5 spot in the rotation and clock in with 150 innings
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:53 PM
Wright pitched 140 innings this year, Hughes clocked in with 148. I would expect Hughes can at least take over the 5 spot in the rotation and clock in with 150 innings
Well if he is in the 5 spot I guess it is doable but having Clippard and Hughes in the rotation could potentially kill the BP...
Zimmers' Helmet
10-08-06, 06:54 PM
IP? :dunno: His stuff is certainly there...
That's the ONLY question mark I can see with this kid. If he can handle at least 180 IP, he is going to dominate.
RhodeyYankee2638
10-08-06, 06:55 PM
Well if he is in the 5 spot I guess it is doable but having Clippard and Hughes in the rotation could potentially kill the BP...
i dont think we should have both in the starting rotation, but its not like our 4 and 5 starters didnt murder the bullpen this year anyways
geoffman
10-08-06, 06:55 PM
Torre
Jeter
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Cabrera
Williams
Rivera
You have got to be kidding me:o
JavyVazquezIsSick
10-08-06, 06:57 PM
i dont think we should have both in the starting rotation, but its not like our 4 and 5 starters didnt murder the bullpen this year anyways
True but we don't want a repeat of that. Obviously if he does pitch in the minors they are going to look to increase his IP, I see no reason why he couldn't pitch in the majors and do the same. The guy is an absolute stud (thats so gay, but I love him)....
ryanm1058123
10-08-06, 06:59 PM
True but we don't want a repeat of that. Obviously if he does pitch in the minors they are going to look to increase his IP, I see no reason why he couldn't pitch in the majors and do the same. The guy is an absolute stud (thats so gay, but I love him)....
you do remember that towards the end of the year.. they put on a 5 inning cap on all of his starts.. right? He could have went 1-2 more innings in at least 5-10 starts. I don't believe innings will be the worry with Phil.
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