View Full Version : Melky bidding adieu?? Rumored deal to Pittsburgh
knickfan23
07-14-06, 10:36 PM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060714&content_id=1556684&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Notes: Cabrera may be on way out
Whispered trade with Pittsburgh includes Burnitz, Craig Wilson
NEW YORK -- General manager Brian Cashman has made it clear that pitching prospect Philip Hughes is as close to untouchable as any player in the Yankees' farm system.
Melky Cabrera on the other hand, may not be.
According to a Major League executive, the Yankees and Pirates have discussed a deal that would send the young outfielder to Pittsburgh in exchange for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and first baseman/outfielder Craig Wilson.
Yankees13
07-14-06, 10:36 PM
No thanks, need either more quality or younger players to move Melky.
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 10:37 PM
I need to digest this for a second before replying.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-14-06, 10:38 PM
Priced way too high for eating all of that salary...
CharlieHayes
07-14-06, 10:38 PM
Ick.
I understand wanting to make a less costly trade, but junk is junk.
cmaff05
07-14-06, 10:40 PM
Why can't we cultivate Melky and see what he can do for us? I mean, we get Sheffield and Matsui back in late August or Early September.. why get one of these guys when they are just going to ride the pine in the postseason?
South Facing Epitaph
07-14-06, 10:40 PM
We hardly knew you, Melky. :(
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 10:40 PM
Just read the direct quotes from Cashman just because Pittsburgh made that proposal doesn't mean that Cashman is going to make the trade. I wouldn't make that trade, the Yankees would be giving up a young 21 year old outfielder with a lot of promise for a 37 year old that's past his prime and a soon to be free agent and taking that salary relief for Pittsburg.
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 10:42 PM
i would not mind craig wilson but i don't like burnitz
CharlieHayes
07-14-06, 10:42 PM
Plus, for all we know a mid-level pitcher is part of the trade, too
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 10:42 PM
Id do that deal though id obviously like Abreu more. Melky right now has the speed to be a centerfielder, but not the power. The problem is not developing power, he should develop enough for Centerfield but by that time his body will fill out and he will be a corner outfielder and he isnt going to develop enough power to play a corner. He will be a fourth outfielder. Craig Wilson is good, and i think or Burnitz as a throw in.
BRNXBMRS
07-14-06, 10:43 PM
No thanks, thats going against everything Cashman said he wouldnt do.
nnysiny
07-14-06, 10:43 PM
this trade would be god awful. if the Yankees are paying both salaries then Cashman is getting ripped off big time. even getting rid of Melky to get Abreu is iffy for me
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 10:43 PM
Neither Burnitz or Wilson played tonight.
cmaff05
07-14-06, 10:44 PM
We are just adding more age to this team.. and large contracts. If we want to add another large contract to our team, why not pick up Flash Gordon instead?
TheMick@ND
07-14-06, 10:44 PM
I'm really trying to prevent my love of Melky from clouding my judgment here. I honestly don't know.
Yanks21
07-14-06, 10:44 PM
That deal would blow...
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 10:45 PM
I don't want to build an offense around Jeromy Burnitz. Craig Wilson? The Pirates need protection around Jason Bay.
I'll pass.
Way to take the fun out after a big win.
Gehrig'sGhost
07-14-06, 10:46 PM
That deal would blow...
Truly
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 10:46 PM
I doubt Cashman would make this trade after the night melky had today
No thanks, thats going against everything Cashman said he wouldnt do.
Cashman said he wouldn't trade away our future. Melky is not our future, I'm sorry to say. With all the talk about him you'd think he has a 900 OPS. It's struggled to stay above 700 and he looks overmatched against good pitching. Wilson is already much much better than Melky and if we have to eat Burnitz's contract, oh well. It's not like we're giving up a Hughes-level talent here.
hellonewman
07-14-06, 10:48 PM
Wilson makes it worth thinking about, but the thought of Burnitz in pinstripes gives me a rash. Pass.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 10:49 PM
this trade would be god awful. if the Yankees are paying both salaries then Cashman is getting ripped off big time. even getting rid of Melky to get Abreu is iffy for me
I can understand not liking this trade. However I think most of you are overrating Melky. He projects to hit around 15 homers a year. Not enough power from a corner spot and replaceable by a lot of guys on the FA market. Not trading him for abreu would be insanity. Hell if the Philly Gm traded Abreu for only Melky(uless we ate all the salary) he would be run out of town.
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 10:49 PM
Cashman said he wouldn't trade away our future. Melky is not our future, I'm sorry to say. With all the talk about him you'd think he has a 900 OPS. It's struggled to stay above 700 and he looks overmatched against good pitching. Wilson is already much much better than Melky and if we have to eat Burnitz's contract, oh well. It's not like we're giving up a Hughes-level talent here.
Neither of those guys are the present.
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 10:49 PM
Wilson 2006 obp .347 slg.485 ba.268
Burnitz 2006 obp .277 slg.419 ba.228
Neither Burnitz or Wilson played tonight.
Wow..
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
I can understand not liking this trade. However I think most of you are overrating Melky. He projects to hit around 15 homers a year. Not enough power from a corner spot and replaceable by a lot of guys on the FA market. Not trading him for abreu would be insanity. Hell if the Philly Gm traded Abreu for only Melky(uless we ate all the salary) he would be run out of town.
If I'm going to trade Melky it's going to be for somebody that's going to help this team beyond the next two months.
Espinosa's Glasses
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
I'll kill myself.
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
Way to take the fun out after a big win.
Amen to that.
I say this rumored deal is bullsh*t!
TheMick@ND
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
Cashman said he wouldn't trade away our future. Melky is not our future, I'm sorry to say. With all the talk about him you'd think he has a 900 OPS. It's struggled to stay above 700 and he looks overmatched against good pitching. Wilson is already much much better than Melky and if we have to eat Burnitz's contract, oh well. It's not like we're giving up a Hughes-level talent here.
Yeah, I'm not sure it's something where down the road we'd be like "wow, look at Melky Cabrera, what a terrible trade that was." But at the same time, I'm not sure it helps much if at all. Aren't they both terrible outfielders?
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
Add Oliver Perez to this deal and I'll take it.
Yankeeah
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?p=3362504#post3362504
dabomb2045
07-14-06, 10:50 PM
Just say no. I'd give up Melky in a package for Abreu. But certainly not for Wilson and Burnitz.
Yeah, I'm not sure it's something where down the road we'd be like "wow, look at Melky Cabrera, what a terrible trade that was." But at the same time, I'm not sure it helps much if at all. Aren't they both terrible outfielders?
Not as bad as Bernie and there's a shot Burnitz could turn it around in the AL. It's worth a shot and Wilson should have no problem posting his usual 830-840 OPS.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 10:52 PM
Amen to that.
I say this rumored deal is bullsh*t!
Its on the front page of MLB.com, its not a done deal, but is isnt BS either. Id welcome Craig Wilson, although I do like Melky.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 10:52 PM
If I'm going to trade Melky it's going to be for somebody that's going to help this team beyond the next two months.
What do you expect to get for Melky? What type of player do you think we could get for him?
A suggestion, FWIW...when we discuss these types of things, it would be really cool to get a stats comparison in the first post or two (thanks Shane).
Just a suggestion :)
PoughVirginiaYankee
07-14-06, 10:53 PM
Tell me this doesn't happen. Just someone, please, flash forward, and come back to this thread, and tell me this doesn't happen. Please.
BRNXBMRS
07-14-06, 10:53 PM
Cashman said he wouldn't trade away our future. Melky is not our future, I'm sorry to say. With all the talk about him you'd think he has a 900 OPS. It's struggled to stay above 700 and he looks overmatched against good pitching. Wilson is already much much better than Melky and if we have to eat Burnitz's contract, oh well. It's not like we're giving up a Hughes-level talent here.
Thats great, but when the Yanks need a hit and Melkys up he has been delivering. Melkys 21 and has a cannon for an arm, he is the future. I think he can be a 20hr .280 85rbi in the future. I do NOT make this trade.
cmaff05
07-14-06, 10:54 PM
I just can't see it happening. Although Melky is only 21 and doesn't project to be a huge homerun hitter by any means that would make him suitable as a corner outfielder, he's still only 21. He's only going to get better from here, and he has shown quite a penchant for getting on base and working pitchers, and he's slowly getting more extra base hits.
His glove is good enough even with his average production to keep him here.
CharlieHayes
07-14-06, 10:54 PM
I'm scared there's a pitcher in this we're not hearing about, like Beam????
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 10:54 PM
Its on the front page of MLB.com, its not a done deal, but is isnt BS either. Id welcome Craig Wilson, although I do like Melky.
Ok, how strong is Craig Wilson's arm? Does he have the foot speed and athleticism to cover ground? Does he have good reads and timing to the ball?
Can Wilson hit to all fields?
A lot of things come into question.
I'd welcome Craig Wilson too, but I want to keep Melky also.
yankeegeek
07-14-06, 10:55 PM
This deal sucks. With Melky the Yankees are 1.5 games out of first placve on July 14. They are playing without almost 300 RBI's (Cano, Matsui, and Sheff). There is no reason for this trade. Melky has been great. No need with the team doing so well.
conkermaniac
07-14-06, 10:55 PM
Burnitz is absolutely useless, and Wilson hits decently against horrible NL pitching. I would not be surprised to see his average to dip below .250 in the AL. If we do that deal, the Pirates better send $5 million too to cover their salaries.
Jglaubman
07-14-06, 10:56 PM
Please say it ain't so. There is no way Cashman would do that.
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 10:56 PM
What do you expect to get for Melky? What type of player do you think we could get for him?
Listen, we all know that whatever trade happens with Melky it's going to be a package trade with some other young players out of our system, but I be damn that I give him up for the likes of Burnitz, who's washed up and a soon to be free agent.
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 10:57 PM
Memo to Brian Cashman: Just keep the young lions like Melky, Phil Hughes, J. Brent Cox, and develop them as Yankees only.
YankeePride1967
07-14-06, 10:57 PM
Neither Burnitz or Wilson played tonight.
That worries me as it may make this absurd rumor valid.
Thats great, but when the Yanks need a hit and Melkys up he has been delivering.
There's no such thing as clutch hitting.
CharlieHayes
07-14-06, 10:58 PM
By Sam Borden ¶
New York Daily News ¶
NEW YORK — Philadelphia Phillies outfielder Bobby Abreu has been repeatedly linked to the Yankees in trade speculation, but he’s hardly the only player that GM Brian Cashman has looked at during his efforts to upgrade the Bombers before the July 31 deadline. ¶
Nationals outfielder Jose Guillen also has been deemed a possibility, though there is a debate going on within the organization over whether adding Guillen’s reportedly acidic personality to the Yankees’ clubhouse would be a good idea — early indications are that the Yanks have some reservations about it. ¶
Several Yankee executives, according to sources, believe that Guillen’s moodiness and cantankerous edge could ruin the Yanks’ camaraderie; others, however, believe Guillen likely could be acquired on the cheap and would be an adequate replacement for the injured Gary Sheffield. ¶
Of course, the Washington outfielder the Yanks would love to have is Alfonso Soriano, and they’ll continue to monitor his availability, but the Angels seem to have the inside track on trading for the ex-Bomber. If Anaheim backs off, then the Yanks would try to make it happen, though it will be tough to protect their top prospects unless the Nats aren’t able to find anyone who meets their demands. ¶
The Yanks have had dialogue with the Pirates about Craig Wilson and/or Jeromy Burnitz, but weren’t interested in dealing Melky Cabrera for both players when the subject came up recently. ¶
Cashman wouldn’t comment on any specific deals but has said he’s determined to find a deal that will help the team in the present without stripping any of its key pieces for the future. "It’s a tough tightrope to walk but it’s the one I’m walking," he said. ¶
The market for pitchers appears to be thin as far as the Bombers are concerned; although the White Sox are dangling Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez, the Yanks don’t figure to have the chips to pull of a blockbuster deal for a pitcher. Jon Lieber could be a possibility if the Phillies’ have a fire sale, but he’s struggled this season and might not be much of an upgrade at this point anyway. ¶
As much as anything else, that’s why the Yanks picked up Sidney Ponson. If they get lucky with the former 17-game winner, then they can focus all of their attention on adding a bat. ¶
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JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 10:59 PM
There's no such thing as clutch hitting.
Melky has a great approach though, he trys to take the pitch up the middle instead of pulling a homer when he is in a big spot.
YankeePride1967
07-14-06, 10:59 PM
let's hope that's the truth.
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 11:00 PM
The Yanks have had dialogue with the Pirates about Craig Wilson and/or Jeromy Burnitz, but weren’t interested in dealing Melky Cabrera for both players when the subject came up recently. ¶
Cashman wouldn’t comment on any specific deals but has said he’s determined to find a deal that will help the team in the present without stripping any of its key pieces for the future. "It’s a tough tightrope to walk but it’s the one I’m walking," he said. ¶
That's right Cash, keep the faith.
Woodshed42
07-14-06, 11:00 PM
I'm a fan of Craig Wilson but not of this trade
BRNXBMRS
07-14-06, 11:00 PM
There's no such thing as clutch hitting.
my bad :P
TheMick@ND
07-14-06, 11:01 PM
Now I'm nervous again
Melky has a great approach though, he trys to take the pitch up the middle instead of pulling a homer when he is in a big spot.
I think you mean instead of attempting to pull a homer. He has like no power.
TheBamTino24
07-14-06, 11:01 PM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060714&content_id=1556684&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Notes: Cabrera may be on way out
Whispered trade with Pittsburgh includes Burnitz, Craig Wilson
NEW YORK -- General manager Brian Cashman has made it clear that pitching prospect Philip Hughes is as close to untouchable as any player in the Yankees' farm system.
Melky Cabrera on the other hand, may not be.
According to a Major League executive, the Yankees and Pirates have discussed a deal that would send the young outfielder to Pittsburgh in exchange for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and first baseman/outfielder Craig Wilson.
:eek:
NO!!!
dabomb2045
07-14-06, 11:02 PM
Everytime I think of the name Jeromy Burnitz....I dry heave. This guy blows.
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 11:02 PM
Brian Cashman: JUST SAY HELL F'N NO TO THIS DEAL!
YankeePride1967
07-14-06, 11:03 PM
I think this is yet another rumor that will thankfully NOT come to fruition.
This trade better not ................ing happen.
surge511
07-14-06, 11:06 PM
Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:
Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen
For:
Beam, Smith, Cabrera
I hate both of the rumored deals. I don't see them making a lot of sense, and the team is playing good baseball right now. Why the big rush to get rid of Cabrera? No, he is not the long-term answer in the OF, but still, let him play out the season. I would be open to trading him in the offseason, but not now. And Beam and Smith? Those two are a big part of our not-too-distant future in the bullpen. DO NOT trade them.
I highly doubt Cashman would do either of these deals.
Jglaubman
07-14-06, 11:06 PM
Seriously, if this happens, I will not be able to watch the Yankees anymore.
hellonewman
07-14-06, 11:07 PM
Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:
Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen
For:
Beam, Smith, Cabrera
That one's even worse than the first one.
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 11:07 PM
Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:
Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen
For:
Beam, Smith, Cabrera
I hate both of the rumored deals. I don't see them making a lot of sense, and the team is playing good baseball right now. Why the big rush to get rid of Cabrera? No, he is not the long-term answer in the OF, but still, let him play out the season. I would be open to trading him in the offseason, but not now. And Beam and Smith? Those two are a big part of our not-too-distant future in the bullpen. DO NOT trade them.
I highly doubt Cashman would do either of these deals.
Say no to this trade as well. Another B.S. trade.
Let the young Yankees like Melky, Kevin Thompson, etc. develop as Yankees and keep them as Yankees.
They can learn how to win on the fly as Yankees.
stupidpunchline
07-14-06, 11:08 PM
Somebody hold me.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:08 PM
What do you expect to get for Melky? What type of player do you think we could get for him?
i'd rather have him headline a package that would get us abreu than send him for wilson and burnitz
No way do I give up a 21 year old rookie who's stats are almost as good as Wilson and Burnitz. And Burnitz is just awful. I wouldn't mind Wilson too much, but you don't trade Melky for him unless the Pirates can add in something else. Roberto Hernandez? A prospect maybe?
Barring injuries or some other kind of setback, I think Melky in a few years will be similar to what Juan Rivera is now. A .280-ish hitter with 12-15 HR's and good patience at the plate, if not better. Don't forget he also has a good arm in the OF. This trade seems like it would be a lateral move instead of helping us take a step forward.
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 11:09 PM
Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:
Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen
For:
Beam, Smith, Cabrera
I hate both of the rumored deals. I don't see them making a lot of sense, and the team is playing good baseball right now. Why the big rush to get rid of Cabrera? No, he is not the long-term answer in the OF, but still, let him play out the season. I would be open to trading him in the offseason, but not now. And Beam and Smith? Those two are a big part of our not-too-distant future in the bullpen. DO NOT trade them.
I highly doubt Cashman would do either of these deals.
This is getting weird.
dabomb2045
07-14-06, 11:09 PM
i'd rather have him headline a package that would get us abreu than send him for wilson and burnitz
I think Melky, Clippard and maybe Karstens or White...plus taking on the contract could be enough to get Abreu
stupidpunchline
07-14-06, 11:10 PM
Melky and Eric Duncan for Abreu and Gordon sounds ................ing great right now.
Panamaniac42
07-14-06, 11:10 PM
Burnitz? I like Aaron Guiel better than Burnitz.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:10 PM
being the GM of an organization, Cashman needs to listen to his scouts who think the world of melky's hitting abilities.
if he's going to trade melky he has to consider what his scouts say and get more in return for him than this.
Melky and Eric Duncan for Abreu and Gordon sounds ................ing great right now.
Where did you hear that?
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 11:12 PM
Burnitz? I like Aaron Guiel better than Burnitz.
Jeromy Burnitz is a nobody. He failed in New York the first time as a Met, he will fail again if he comes to the Bronx.
No way do I give up a 21 year old rookie who's stats are almost as good as Wilson and Burnitz.
Please never quote batting average in a baseball argument again. In what world are Melky's stats comparable to Wilson's?
Melky: .258/.358/.375
Wilson: .268/.347/.485
Wilson has a ton more power and slightly less OBP.
BRNXBMRS
07-14-06, 11:12 PM
If everyone reads the rest of the article it doesnt sound like it will happen.
It is unlikely that the Yankees would part with Cabrera given his improved play this season, but it remains a possibility. The Pirates are believed to have made an offer to the Yankees last week for a package that included Cabrera, but New York declined.
Cashman said that he is in no hurry to make a trade, but with the trade deadline less than three weeks away, it wouldn't be surprising to see New York upgrade its outfield.
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 11:13 PM
No way do I give up a 21 year old rookie who's stats are almost as good as Wilson and Burnitz. And Burnitz is just awful. I wouldn't mind Wilson too much, but you don't trade Melky for him unless the Pirates can add in something else. Roberto Hernandez? A prospect maybe?
There would have to be somebody else included. Burnitz so far this year hasn't hit Lefties,Righties,Home,Away....He truly is cooked. He would add nothing to this team.
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 11:13 PM
I do not like this trade but it will not be a catastrophic one if it goes down.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:13 PM
what would everyone do with their brand new got melky t-shirts.
Jglaubman
07-14-06, 11:14 PM
Please never quote batting average in a baseball argument again. In what world are Melky's stats comparable to Wilson's?
Melky: .258/.358/.375
Wilson: .268/.347/.485
Wilson has a ton more power and slightly less OBP.
Melky is actually batting .275
BroadwayBomber55
07-14-06, 11:14 PM
If everyone reads the rest of the article it doesnt sound like it will happen.
We need to upgrade our pitching staff the most, both starters and relief.
I do not like this trade but it will not be a catastrophic one if it goes down.
That's a pretty low bar.
CharlieHayes
07-14-06, 11:15 PM
Melky and Eric Duncan for Abreu and Gordon sounds ................ing great right now.
I'd even throw Beam in to get it done.
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 11:15 PM
That's a pretty low bar.
What exactly do you mean by that?
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-14-06, 11:17 PM
Melky and Eric Duncan for Abreu and Gordon sounds ................ing great right now.
I heard the Phillys want Hughes for just Abreu and they also want us to eat all the salary.
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 11:17 PM
What exactly do you mean by that?
He means you're getting low return for taking on salary and getting two players that probably don't fit into your plans beyond the next 21/2 months.
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 11:18 PM
He means you're getting low return for taking on salary and getting two players that probably don't fit into your plans beyond the next 21/2 months.
Craig Wilson would be a decent fit for this team next year and I could see them re-signing them and letting Andy Phillips go as Craig Wilson can play 1B.
ZYanksRule
07-14-06, 11:18 PM
That's not going to happen, the article even said it.
We're gonna get a TON of these deals in the next few weeks, best to ignore most of them.
BRNXBMRS
07-14-06, 11:18 PM
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by BRNXBMRS
If everyone reads the rest of the article it doesnt sound like it will happen.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
We need to upgrade our pitching staff the most, both starters and relief.
q4t
What exactly do you mean by that?
Whether or not the trade would be catastrophic is kind of irrelevant. It would yield a 37 year old Burnitz, who stinks, but has the quality that Torre values most: veteraness, so he would play, and Wilson, who can hit, but can't field at all, for a 21 year old OFer who projects to win batting titles, and has been very productive both offensively and defensively right now.
In other words, the trade would stink. Would the franchise survive? Of course, but as I said, that's a very low standard with which to measure trades.
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 11:19 PM
Craig Wilson would be a decent fit for this team next year and I could see them re-signing them and letting Andy Phillips go as Craig Wilson can play 1B.
Craig Wilson isn't a good defensive player whether in the outfield or at first base.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:19 PM
Please never quote batting average in a baseball argument again. In what world are Melky's stats comparable to Wilson's?
Melky: .258/.358/.375
Wilson: .268/.347/.485
Wilson has a ton more power and slightly less OBP.
Uhh, judging by the line you just gave they are pretty comparable. .010 avg points isnt that much, melky has shown good patience for a rookie and a .358 obp is a good one for a 21 year old.
Also seeing as he's only 21 years old, his SLG will be considerably lower since he really has had no time to develop the type of power that the 29 year old craig wilson has.
dmbphan1
07-14-06, 11:20 PM
no no no no no`
Yankees1962
07-14-06, 11:21 PM
Whether or not the trade would be catastrophic is kind of irrelevant. It would yield a 37 year old Burnitz, who stinks, but has the quality that Torre values most: veteraness, so he would play, and Wilson, who can hit, but can't field at all, for a 21 year old OFer who projects to win batting titles, and has been very productive both offensively and defensively right now.
In other words, the trade would stink. Would the franchise survive? Of course, but as I said, that's a very low standard with which to measure trades.
One of the few times, I agree totally with Rich.:)
BillAlex
07-14-06, 11:22 PM
this would be a TERRIBLE DEAL unless Mike Gonzalez is also included and that aint happening.
Wilson and Burnitz are fighting each other for PT in Pitt, they are not full time players, they are not any good defensively, they make a boat load more in salary..... yes they have more power than Melky but they strikeout WAY more. The Yanks do not need more players that do not put the ball in play!
Melky seems to be well liked and brings youth and enthusiasm to the team.
PLEEEEEAAASSEE, Do NOT make this deal !!!
2006 Year-To-Date Comparison
Player Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG
Jeromy Burnitz Pit 74 246 28 56 11 0 12 37 1 1 14 57 .228 .277 .419
Melky Cabrera NYY 54 200 31 55 9 1 3 28 3 2 25 19 .275 .358 .375
Craig Wilson Pit 77 231 36 62 10 2 12 37 1 0 24 78 .268 .347 .485
IronCaballo4
07-14-06, 11:22 PM
What a HORRIBLE deal....I'd vomit if this happens :( :barf:
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:23 PM
Craig Wilson would be a decent fit for this team next year and I could see them re-signing them and letting Andy Phillips go as Craig Wilson can play 1B.
they have a cheaper option that probably would provide just as much power as well as better defense in AAA right now named Pena.
ShaneTravis
07-14-06, 11:24 PM
Uhh, judging by the line you just gave they are pretty comparable. .010 avg points isnt that much, melky has shown good patience for a rookie and a .358 obp is a good one for a 21 year old.
Also seeing as he's only 21 years old, his SLG will be considerably lower since he really has had no time to develop the type of power that the 29 year old craig wilson has.
Wilson (I believe) did not break into the bigs until 24/25 years of age. Melky is ahead of him by a few seasons. I think keeping him for the next couple of seasons and seeing how he develops far out weighs the short term gains of either Wilson or Burnitz.
This trade better not ................ing happen.
That's what I keep repeating to myself over and over. I can't even deal with thinking about it right now lol.
Michaels07
07-14-06, 11:27 PM
Who is this ML exec? Theo Epstein!
hellonewman
07-14-06, 11:27 PM
Whether or not the trade would be catastrophic is kind of irrelevant. It would yield a 37 year old Burnitz, who stinks, but has the quality that Torre values most: veteraness, so he would play, and Wilson, who can hit, but can't field at all, for a 21 year old OFer who projects to win batting titles, and has been very productive both offensively and defensively right now.Actually, I think there are 2 "n"s in "veteranness." :)
FWIW, I just took a swing through the Pirate board on MLB.com and most of the Pirate fans seem to be hoping this trade happens, though there's a lot of skepticism there too about the rumor's validity. Here's hoping this blows over.
flymick24
07-14-06, 11:27 PM
i like wilson, but not for melky
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:30 PM
Wilson (I believe) did not break into the bigs until 24/25 years of age. Melky is ahead of him by a few seasons. I think keeping him for the next couple of seasons and seeing how he develops far out weighs the short term gains of either Wilson or Burnitz.
whether he broke into the league 5 years ago, 10 years ago or 1 year ago he is a 29 year old athlete compared to a 21 year old athlete who, no matter at what level, has played more baseball and seen more pitches. he has had more time to develop power and, naturally, is stronger. melky hasnt even started to fill out his frame yet.
and to be quite honest, i highly doubt melky is trying to hit for any real power. just like he's doing with cano, im sure mattingly is working with melky on seeing the ball and hitting the ball. that helps you become a better contact hitter and develop a better recognition of pitches than if you just swing for the fences all the time. if you have the ability to see the ball hit the ball and recognize pitches, power will come along on its own eventually. it did with mattingly.
Michaels07
07-14-06, 11:31 PM
What`s the By line on this alleged deal,rumour?Is it out of Chicago?
Jglaubman
07-14-06, 11:32 PM
whether he broke into the league 5 years ago, 10 years ago or 1 year ago he is a 29 year old athlete compared to a 21 year old athlete who, no matter at what level, has played more baseball and seen more pitches. he has had more time to develop power and, naturally, is stronger. melky hasnt even started to fill out his frame yet.
and to be quite honest, i highly doubt melky is trying to hit for any real power. just like he's doing with cano, im sure mattingly is working with melky on seeing the ball and hitting the ball. that helps you become a better contact hitter and develop a better recognition of pitches than if you just swing for the fences all the time. if you have the ability to see the ball hit the ball and recognize pitches, power will come along on its own eventually. it did with mattingly.
So, do you want this trade to happen?
TheMick@ND
07-14-06, 11:33 PM
whether he broke into the league 5 years ago, 10 years ago or 1 year ago he is a 29 year old athlete compared to a 21 year old athlete who, no matter at what level, has played more baseball and seen more pitches. he has had more time to develop power and, naturally, is stronger. melky hasnt even started to fill out his frame yet.
and to be quite honest, i highly doubt melky is trying to hit for any real power. just like he's doing with cano, im sure mattingly is working with melky on seeing the ball and hitting the ball. that helps you become a better contact hitter and develop a better recognition of pitches than if you just swing for the fences all the time. if you have the ability to see the ball hit the ball and recognize pitches, power will come along on its own eventually. it did with mattingly.
This excellent post just got me really excited about Melky. Now I'm really worried.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:33 PM
." :)
FWIW, I just took a swing through the Pirate board on MLB.com and most of the Pirate fans seem to be hoping this trade happens.
If the Yankees sucked but had some very nice young talent to be excited about, wouldn't you be excited to get rid of two older guys, one very old, in exchange for a 21 year old who scouts say can hit and seems to be finding his way on to top play lists and web gems with some frequency?
thesportshero
07-14-06, 11:34 PM
No thanks. Melky may have no power, but he's young and has done a very nice job so far this year.
Jglaubman
07-14-06, 11:35 PM
So, do you want this trade to happen?
Never mind, I mis-read your post.
flymick24
07-14-06, 11:36 PM
Actually, I think there are 2 "n"s in "veteranness." :)
FWIW, I just took a swing through the Pirate board on MLB.com and most of the Pirate fans seem to be hoping this trade happens, though there's a lot of skepticism there too about the rumor's validity. Here's hoping this blows over.
even pirates fans know that burnitz sucks
guidry36
07-14-06, 11:36 PM
Where would Wilson play?? His best position, of course, would be DH.
How does this grab you:
LF/RF- Bernie and Burnitz
1B/DH-Wilson
1B/DH-Giambi
--or--
LF-Wilson
RF-Burnitz
Either scenario is horrible defensively. We don't need a DH. Dellucci would make MUCH more sense than Wilson, IMO.
ryanm1058123
07-14-06, 11:36 PM
I think it's great that Melky had the GW hit right at the right time so there's no chance of this trade happening. Cashman would get killed for this
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:37 PM
So, do you want this trade to happen?
of course not. with sheffields option likely not to be picked up i would love to see melky patrolling rf for years to come with the yanks. there's nothing i love more than successful home grown players.
however, i realize melky may be one of the younger guys on our team who is tradeable and with his ability and potential in mind i would demand a lot more than a washed up 37 year old and a so-so 30 year old with no defense.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:41 PM
Either scenario is horrible defensively. We don't need a DH. Dellucci would make MUCH more sense than Wilson, IMO.
good point. he would be a better solution for this year, and once our starters are back would be a great addition to our bench, which is a role he is seemingly fine with seeing as how he has been a role player or at least a part timer everywhere he's played at one point or another.
hellonewman
07-14-06, 11:41 PM
If the Yankees sucked but had some very nice young talent to be excited about, wouldn't you be excited to get rid of two older guys, one very old, in exchange for a 21 year old who scouts say can hit and seems to be finding his way on to top play lists and web gems with some frequency?Yes. What I was hinting at was, the fact that Pirate fans are psyched for this deal is another red flag that we shouldn't do it.
No thanks.
Unless they wanna throw in Ian Snell as well.
hellonewman
07-14-06, 11:44 PM
even pirates fans know that burnitz sucksYeah, apparently they call him "Beernutz."
:lol:
Please never quote batting average in a baseball argument again. In what world are Melky's stats comparable to Wilson's?
Melky: .258/.358/.375
Wilson: .268/.347/.485
Wilson has a ton more power and slightly less OBP.
Wilson has more power and...yeah. Melky is a homegrown product, which everyone seems to want lately and he plays in a much tougher league than Wilson does. You could argue that Wilson's numbers should improve in the Yankees lineup, but then again maybe he won't be able to adjust to NY. But most importantly, Melky will continue to improve. Wilson is almost 30 and probably past his prime. This trade more than likely won't help is much now and certainly wouldn't help for the future.
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:46 PM
Yeah, apparently they call him "Beernutz."
:lol:
Have you seen that show? Its a couple of guys who go around the world drinking beers from all over and learning about them. Its pretty much a dream of every man being fulfilled by two lucky guys.
YanksFanTillDeath
07-14-06, 11:47 PM
ohh lord... Cash please dont even think about this one..:eek:
The Dynasty
07-14-06, 11:49 PM
No thanks.
Unless they wanna throw in Ian Snell as well.
I doubt it. Now if the trade looks something like this:
Pittsburgh gets:
OF Melky Cabrera
Mid-level pitching prospect
New York gets:
1B/OF Craig Wilson
OF Jeromy Burnitz
LHP Oliver Perez
Now you're talking.
hellonewman
07-14-06, 11:50 PM
Have you seen that show? Its a couple of guys who go around the world drinking beers from all over and learning about them. Its pretty much a dream of every man being fulfilled by two lucky guys.
No, I didn't even realize it was a show ... I just thought they were making fun of Burnitz.
Something else to think about. But Melky and Cano are best friends. You always see them laughing and talking together on the bench. I don't know about you guys, but I certainly wouldn't want to mess up any chemistry in the clubhouse unless it's a trade that can really help us.
Sierra helped Cano. Cano helps Melky. Melky helps Tabata in a few years? ;)
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:57 PM
I doubt it. Now if the trade looks something like this:
Pittsburgh gets:
OF Melky Cabrera
Mid-level pitching prospect
New York gets:
1B/OF Craig Wilson
OF Jeromy Burnitz
LHP Oliver Perez
Now you're talking.
good lord, that doesnt make it any better at all. quantity doesn't equal quality... and in this case neither does youthful pitching. we've exhausted why craig wilson and burnitz would be a bad deal now you want to add pitcher who has seen his era, whip, slg, oba, baa, k/bb, k/9, and h/9 all get worse each year since '04.... and for what? because he's only 25 and had one decent year out of 5 in the bigs?
brosiusbuddy
07-14-06, 11:59 PM
No, I didn't even realize it was a show ... I just thought they were making fun of Burnitz.
i'm sure the fans razzing and the show have no connection. its not even a popular show, its on at 11pm or something like that on a random HD channel. it was just my random comment of the day
That second deal someone mentioned about us trading Melky, Beam and Smith for whatever crap Washington was offering made me physically ill.
lirunner28
07-14-06, 11:59 PM
in my opinion you could get much better for melky.. they dont have a need for a craig wilson type player, if youre going to trade an already solid player in melky (who is only getting better) you need to get a better player (bernitz is terrible). the pirates dont have what we are looking for
ICEBERG18
07-15-06, 12:01 AM
Im surprised this got to 5 pages. That deal is not happening.
allstarcano22
07-15-06, 12:02 AM
Dont Trade Melky
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 12:06 AM
to make it simple as to why this is a bad trade, let me give you this scenario.
if seinfeld were to start airing brand new shows, in a few years there would probably be a scene where Frank Costanza gets the chance to speak to Steinbrenner and he would probably ask him "HOW COULD YOU TRADE MELKY CABRERA?!!"
az_yankee
07-15-06, 12:08 AM
I like Wilson, hate the rapidly aging Burnitz.
But its still not worth an improving Melky.
Cashman can get a better short term replacement than these two if that's what they are looking for.
allstarcano22
07-15-06, 12:18 AM
we dont need those guys anyways ... Melky is fine and hes going to be a stud. and plus we have " rarin' aaron " guiel now
bronxbomberz212
07-15-06, 12:29 AM
ummmm.... no thanks pittsburg, u can keep burnitz and wilson.
Jetfanmack
07-15-06, 12:36 AM
Um...
.832 OPS for a 29 year old FA at the end of the year and a guy who should be DFAd immediately once we get him for a .733 OPS 21 year old who plays great defense... Yeah, right...
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 12:40 AM
Um...
.832 OPS for a 29 year old FA at the end of the year and a guy who should be DFAd immediately once we get him for a .733 OPS 21 year old who plays great defense... Yeah, right...I wouldn't call his defense great, but I agree that this probably isn't the way to go.
Jetfanmack
07-15-06, 12:42 AM
I wouldn't call his defense great, but I agree that this probably isn't the way to go.
Since his initial struggles, he's been very, very good out there. It's just a small upgrade now, and after this year, I don't know if we'd even resign Wilson, so we'd be giving up a 21 year old who is major league ready with upside for nothing.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 12:49 AM
Since his initial struggles, he's been very, very good out there. It's just a small upgrade now, and after this year, I don't know if we'd even resign Wilson, so we'd be giving up a 21 year old who is major league ready with upside for nothing.Oh I wouldn't make the trade, I agree with you on that. Burnitz is subtraction by addition and Wilson is a FA to be anyway. I think Melky can be a .290, 15, 75 guy with a good obp and plus defense. I just worry that by being so likeable he's making himself overrated.
DaYanks24
07-15-06, 12:53 AM
unless we are getting Jason Bay in return, no thanks
Jetfanmack
07-15-06, 12:54 AM
Oh I wouldn't make the trade, I agree with you on that. Burnitz is subtraction by addition and Wilson is a FA to be anyway. I think Melky can be a .290, 15, 75 guy with a good obp and plus defense. I just worry that by being so likeable he's making himself overrated.
We have been overrating his performance for this season alone, but the fact is that he is still a 21 year old outfielder in the Bronx who has had mild success in a tough situation. Even though he hasn't been that good this year, he's got the chance to be a very nice outfielder for a long time to come. Once he matures, I see no reason he can't be a .310, .390, .470 outfielder with good defense and decent speed.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 01:01 AM
I just worry that by being so likeable he's making himself overrated.
I dont think this is the case at all. I think that the great defensive plays he's made have made him likeable. He has good speed, very good tracking ability, and a very strong arm. That being said he still isnt a polished outfielder. He needs to be consistent with those skills, he needs to work on his accuracy, and he needs to make smarter choices in the OF (throwing past cutoff men to be exact). But i think making smarter choices comes with experience and for a 21 year old i'm sure things are still moving pretty fast around him when balls get hit his way. they say that as you get more experience the game around you tends to slow down so i think that will happen for him and he'll round out into a very nice OFer... especially if he eventually is moved to RF.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 01:02 AM
We have been overrating his performance for this season alone, but the fact is that he is still a 21 year old outfielder in the Bronx who has had mild success in a tough situation. Even though he hasn't been that good this year, he's got the chance to be a very nice outfielder for a long time to come. Once he matures, I see no reason he can't be a .310, .390, .470 outfielder with good defense and decent speed.i think .470 might be pushing it, but I hope your right.
Horrible deal. Cashman is not that dumb. Melky is staying.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 01:05 AM
i think .470 might be pushing it, but I hope your right.
he's barely even begun to fill out his frame. he is 21 years old and still has a lot of strength to gain. some of these spray singles we see from him are going to start turning into gapper doubles and eventually a few homers. as long as he keeps working with Mattingly on recognizing pitches and seeing the ball, hitting the ball, the power will come natural.
Jetfanmack
07-15-06, 01:10 AM
Eric Byrnes has a .522 SLG this year. I think Melky can get within .50 points of that some day. As Brosiusbuddy said, he hasn't even begun to fill out his frame. Damon is at .471. I think that Melky can do that some day. I don't ever see him being a 30 home run guy, but I can see him getting good gap power, but at this point, it's mostly guesswork.
allstarcano22
07-15-06, 01:17 AM
he better stay that way ican make mysel a Got Melky? tshirt with melkys face on th efront with a milk mustsache and manny ramirez face on the back after melky stole his HR
DontHateOnNumber2
07-15-06, 01:20 AM
I'm not thinking that Melky is a god in the outfield, but trade him for Burnitz? No. Wilson is iffy, for this to make sense (to me) there needs to be better players included.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 01:32 AM
he's barely even begun to fill out his frame. he is 21 years old and still has a lot of strength to gain. some of these spray singles we see from him are going to start turning into gapper doubles and eventually a few homers. as long as he keeps working with Mattingly on recognizing pitches and seeing the ball, hitting the ball, the power will come natural.He's only 5'11 and is already around 175-180(I'm not buying the 170 he's listed at). I'm not saying he'll never hit for any power, but .470 slugging with a .310 BA is what Victor Martinez is currently doing.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 01:34 AM
Eric Byrnes has a .522 SLG this year.Eric Byrnes, who plays his home games at the BOB by the way, is on pace to hit 24 home runs and 44 doubles in only 550 ABs. You honestly see Melky doing that?
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 01:45 AM
He's only 5'11 and is already around 175-180(I'm not buying the 170 he's listed at). I'm not saying he'll never hit for any power, but .470 slugging with a .310 BA is what Victor Martinez is currently doing.
yeah, and martinez has been about a 20 hr, 30 double type of guy. I think melky could match that one day. melky's also faster than martinez so you'll see him stretch more singles into doubles as well as some triples.
plus, i believe 170. theres really not a lot of muscle to him. he definitely has room to add on some bulk.
JeterForPresident
07-15-06, 01:50 AM
I posted about this in the other thread, and like I said there...I think this would be such a stupid trade to make. Assuming they dont bring back Sheff, why not use Melky instead of bringing in 2 older guys who arent even that great anyway.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
07-15-06, 02:01 AM
yeah, and martinez has been about a 20 hr, 30 double type of guy. I think melky could match that one day. melky's also faster than martinez so you'll see him stretch more singles into doubles as well as some triples.
plus, i believe 170. theres really not a lot of muscle to him. he definitely has room to add on some bulk.I can see 15 hr, 30 2b, but not 20, 30. Again if I'm wrong thats great, and again I wouldn't make this trade.
NYDCYankee
07-15-06, 02:24 AM
I would do a Melky and Beam or Smith for Wilson and Oliver Perez.
flymick24
07-15-06, 02:30 AM
oliver perez is not going to be traded
NYDCYankee
07-15-06, 02:34 AM
Oliver Perez so far in AAA this year is 0-2 4.50 19 k's.
He has given up 4 homers though.
He has struggled for 2 years now. I bet he could be had.
flymick24
07-15-06, 02:36 AM
the cost would be way too high, and judging from everything i've read about him (his attitude, his lax work ethic), i wouldn't want to give up anything for a player like him
nicenevil
07-15-06, 03:23 AM
Truly
not only would it blow but it would also suck..............I WANT OUR MELK DAMNIT:eek:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/435275p-366774c.html
Melky earns Yankees' keep
Delivers as Bombers bop champs
BY SAM BORDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources.
The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. Last night, the rookie outfielder showed why.
[...]
NYYStateofMind21355
07-15-06, 04:13 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/435275p-366774c.html
Melky earns Yankees' keep
Delivers as Bombers bop champs
BY SAM BORDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources.
The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. Last night, the rookie outfielder showed why.
[...]
Thank you posting this, Rich. It may or may not be true, but at least it erases the knot at the pit of my stomach for a while. I would be pretty heartbroken to see Melky go.
Rocketman
07-15-06, 04:18 AM
I would FAR rather go for Abreu than Wilson, but I'd take Wilson over starting Melky Cabrera or Bernie Williams. I'd pull the trade for him, only.
bobbymagee
07-15-06, 05:32 AM
The higher/greater the performance of the Melkman the Moo I like him. I say sacrifice this year maybe not make the playoffs and hold onto our younger inbreded talent and go from there.
Why? The Melkman delivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rockin:
ericns1
07-15-06, 06:17 AM
A bad deal - sometimes the best deals are the ones not made.
ManilaYankee
07-15-06, 06:34 AM
I don't wanna see Melky go. Period.
Looking at melky's stat line makes him seem like a very average player.
However his stats as a 21 year old rookie are nothing short of amazing (not to mention his defense.) he has an amazing upside. what last year and this year have shown is that the kids hanging out at AA and AAA can get the job done. Theoretically, all players used to hang out there. It's a question of giving them a chance. Time to forget 37 year old "proven" players. One or two for the bench is a great idea, but (in general) they are obviously so passed their prime - and injury prone to boot.
parkerstrong
07-15-06, 06:40 AM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060714&content_id=1556684&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Notes: Cabrera may be on way out
Whispered trade with Pittsburgh includes Burnitz, Craig Wilson
NEW YORK -- General manager Brian Cashman has made it clear that pitching prospect Philip Hughes is as close to untouchable as any player in the Yankees' farm system.
Melky Cabrera on the other hand, may not be.
According to a Major League executive, the Yankees and Pirates have discussed a deal that would send the young outfielder to Pittsburgh in exchange for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and first baseman/outfielder Craig Wilson.
I havent read the thread yet, but I would rather have Melky than Burnitz this year, nevermind the future. No deal please.
The Q Bomb
07-15-06, 06:55 AM
That trade would send us back to the stone age of "Let's keep throwing different (OLD) players against the wall and see what sticks." Why on earth would anyone, or at least The Yanks, want Burnitz - even as a throw in. I don't know much about Craig Wilson, but why do we need to get a first baseman. Isn't that what Duncan should be playing in a couple of years. Or is Duncan now worthless because he's had half a poor season in the minors?
I understand the need to seize the moment and get in the playoffs when you can because you never know what next year will bring, however, you can't make trades like this rumored one and be successful in the long term.
Centerfielder, corner outfielder, - it doesn't matter. Give Melky a chance. He seems to add a little more to the team than just his on the field play. The same way they take chances on players from other teams, quite a few of which have not worked out at all the last few years - is the same way you can take a chance with one of your own. If Melky grows into a 15 homerun, .280 average, +.350 OBP, hitter, there can be a place on this line-up for him - providing the rest of the line-up continues to be as fearsome as it is (if it were healthy) now and if we have decent pitching. Giambi may have 2 more years so you will have to replace his production - but you are certainly not going to replace it by trading Melky. In two more years Jeter's production should start to tail off but Cano should make up for that. The biggest challenge for The Yanks will be the dearth of top notch free agents, like a Giambi, Manny, A-Rod, available. They will have to start developing their own guys and Melky can be a good start.
The Yankees will ruin my 83 yr old father's summer if they trade Melky...... he'll probably give up watching the Yankees at all.
Melky and Cano are the two players he looks for when he turns on the game.
DON'T DO IT, CASHMAN, OR I SWEAR I'LL HAVE TO COME OVER THERE AND SLAP SOME SENSE INTO YA.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/435275p-366774c.html
Melky earns Yankees' keep
Delivers as Bombers bop champs
BY SAM BORDEN
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources.
The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. Last night, the rookie outfielder showed why.
[...]:-padlock-:-padlock-:-padlock-:-padlock-:-padlock-:-padlock-:-padlock-
melky...does the yankees good
Spiker101
07-15-06, 07:38 AM
If Melky grows into a 15 homerun, .280 average, +.350 OBP, hitter, there can be a place on this line-up for him ...
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team. While I don't think a Wilson/Burnitz for Melky deal adds much to the Yanks chances, the idea that Melky must be held onto no matter what is silly. At this point, Melky figures down the road to be an excellent fourth outfielder who can provide solid defense at both corners and could play an emergency centerfield. That gives him some value, but not enough to turn down a deal that could help the Yanks get to the playoffs this October.
The thing to keep in mind is that byOctober, Sheff and Matsui could be at full strength. So could Dotel. So, even, could Pavano. By October the Yanks could have the best talent in baseball. but it's getting to October that's going to be the problem.
23jordan
07-15-06, 07:49 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team. While I don't think a Wilson/Burnitz for Melky deal adds much to the Yanks chances, the idea that Melky must be held onto no matter what is silly. At this point, Melky figures down the road to be an excellent fourth outfielder who can provide solid defense at both corners and could play an emergency centerfield. That gives him some value, but not enough to turn down a deal that could help the Yanks get to the playoffs this October.
The thing to keep in mind is that byOctober, Sheff and Matsui could be at full strength. So could Dotel. So, even, could Pavano. By October the Yanks could have the best talent in baseball. but it's getting to October that's going to be the problem.
The kid is 21 years old and can play in NEW YORK. Keep him! We've seen it too many damn times in this forum....people clamoring for more trades...more talent...more more more....they come here and guess what? They just can't do it. Melky gets it! He plays well here and is only going to get better! Save the damn money and use that Money for a starter next year!
**Edited** BTW...I liked the RBI last night to help win the damn game!
In Mo I Trust
07-15-06, 07:51 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team. While I don't think a Wilson/Burnitz for Melky deal adds much to the Yanks chances, the idea that Melky must be held onto no matter what is silly. At this point, Melky figures down the road to be an excellent fourth outfielder who can provide solid defense at both corners and could play an emergency centerfield. That gives him some value, but not enough to turn down a deal that could help the Yanks get to the playoffs this October.
The thing to keep in mind is that byOctober, Sheff and Matsui could be at full strength. So could Dotel. So, even, could Pavano. By October the Yanks could have the best talent in baseball. but it's getting to October that's going to be the problem.
Those numbers are roughly equal to 2003 Matsui, 287/353/435. Nobody ever complained in 2003 that the Yankees couldn't win with Matsui in left. If Melky puts up those numbers while making the league minimum, he can be a valuable piece of the puzzle.
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team.
.
Everyone on the field doesn't have to be an all-star to be a championship team.
cmaff05
07-15-06, 08:13 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team.
You don't need an all-star at every position to win. And hitting 20 home runs as a corner outfielder is fine as long as you have a high batting average, OBP and OPS. If Melky could hit 20 home runs, get his batting average up to .300, that would be equivalent to what Paul O'neill did during the Yankees dynasty in 1996-2001. Hell, in Paul O'neill's last years, he wasn't exactly the player he was in 1996 and 1997 but the Yankees still went to the World Series every year.
Astorian
07-15-06, 08:13 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team.
Scott Posednik, Gabe Kapler, Ricky Ledee, Chad Curtis, Tim Raines...
I can keep going if you'd like...
aeromac76
07-15-06, 08:21 AM
If we could get Abreu for Melky, I would do it, but not Craig Wilson or Burnitz..
yanksconstantino24
07-15-06, 08:40 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team. While I don't think a Wilson/Burnitz for Melky deal adds much to the Yanks chances, the idea that Melky must be held onto no matter what is silly. At this point, Melky figures down the road to be an excellent fourth outfielder who can provide solid defense at both corners and could play an emergency centerfield. That gives him some value, but not enough to turn down a deal that could help the Yanks get to the playoffs this October.
The thing to keep in mind is that byOctober, Sheff and Matsui could be at full strength. So could Dotel. So, even, could Pavano. By October the Yanks could have the best talent in baseball. but it's getting to October that's going to be the problem.
Do you happen to remember 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000? The Yankees won without power hitting outfielders.
I think Melky will be an excellent defensive outfielder, hit about 20 HR, hit over .300, and be among league leaders in OBP.
longtimeyankeefan
07-15-06, 08:50 AM
Do you happen to remember 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000? The Yankees won without power hitting outfielders.
I think Melky will be an excellent defensive outfielder, hit about 20 HR, hit over .300, and be among league leaders in OBP.
First of all, let me go on record as opposing this deal or even trading Melky, at least at this time.
That having been said, I fail to understand how people project Melky to numbers like the above, I acknowledge that he is only 21 and should develop more power as he ages, but I can't see him being more than a 15HR type player. His SLG is going to come more from 2B and 3B than HR.
As far as his BA goes, people seem to be salivating over his .385 Columbus BA this year, but his career minor league BA, including the Columbus breakout, is only .294 - excluding Columbus, he has exactly one season (Battle Creek 2004) where he broke the .300 barrier. I see him as a .290 type hitter.
All in all, he has the potential to become a good player, but he is not anyone who we should be holding on to at all costs.
homer2931
07-15-06, 08:52 AM
No way do I give up a 21 year old rookie who's stats are almost as good as Wilson and Burnitz. And Burnitz is just awful. I wouldn't mind Wilson too much, but you don't trade Melky for him unless the Pirates can add in something else. Roberto Hernandez? A prospect maybe?
Barring injuries or some other kind of setback, I think Melky in a few years will be similar to what Juan Rivera is now. A .280-ish hitter with 12-15 HR's and good patience at the plate, if not better. Don't forget he also has a good arm in the OF. This trade seems like it would be a lateral move instead of helping us take a step forward.
Similar stats? I guess we can jsut ignore the 110 point lead Wilson has in SLG%
Is Juan Rivera all that good? I'd take him, but he's not the kind of guy who should be untradeable, and neither is Melky
homer2931
07-15-06, 09:07 AM
yeah, and martinez has been about a 20 hr, 30 double type of guy. I think melky could match that one day. melky's also faster than martinez so you'll see him stretch more singles into doubles as well as some triples.
plus, i believe 170. theres really not a lot of muscle to him. he definitely has room to add on some bulk.
Melky has hit 53.8% of his balls on the ground (a total similar to slap hitters like Juan Pierre, Jason Kendall, Mark Grudzialanerk,and Angel Berroa), he's not going to develop that kind of power hitting that many balls on the ground. Looking at the GB% leaders, only two of them (Crawford and tejada) have acceptable corner OF power, and they're both hitting way more GB's than they ever have
homer2931
07-15-06, 09:12 AM
Scott Posednik, Gabe Kapler, Ricky Ledee, Chad Curtis, Tim Raines...
I can keep going if you'd like...
Go get pitching like the 96-00 teams or the 05 White Sox had, then we can live with Melky.
P.S. Gabe Kapler slugged .449 and Ledee .476
Gator's Shadow
07-15-06, 09:38 AM
The Yankees project to get 100+ home runs per year from the CF, 2B, SS and 3B positions over the next several years. This whole notion of what a corner outfielder "HAS" to do is horse droppings that has no relevance to the Yankees likely situation, esp with Matsui likely returning in August. If (and it is an if) the Yankees feel; that Melky can project to a 300 hitter with an OBP of 375, even if his power is low (10 hrs or so) he can be a great (and cheap) complimentary cog to a championship team in NY. Projections are sometimes difficult, but he has excellent plate discipline for a young player, and has been better than everage (not great yet, IMO) in the field. I dont like the rumored deal, even though Wilson is pretty good, because it doesnt do a tremendous amount to increase our chances this year, and he is a FA.
SheffRocks11
07-15-06, 10:06 AM
No... I love Melky... :(
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 10:17 AM
That's the fallacy. Those kinds of numbers aren't good enough from a corner outfielder on a championship-caliber team. .
Now thats a fallacy. The 98-99 Yanks had a revolving door of left fielders between Chad Curtis, Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee and the most homers any one of them had was 10. And it wasn't like O'Neill was a big time slugger either, the most HR he ever had during our stretch was 24.
Or if you want to look at a team other than the Yanks, the 2003 Marlins had Conine in RF and he hit .290, .337, 15 hr.
Melky has good speed, a strong arm, and a good bat. He's only 21 so he's definitely still got power to develop and will probably turn into a guy that hits 15-20 a year. I think .280 is way under what he could turn into as a hitter and I think .300 is definitely possible. Plus, as long as we have a LF that is going to hit about 30 hr, a 1b/dh that will hit 30-45 hr and a 3b that will hit 30-45 hr we will not be lacking in the power department if Melky is in RF.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 10:21 AM
Melky has hit 53.8% of his balls on the ground (a total similar to slap hitters like Juan Pierre, Jason Kendall, Mark Grudzialanerk,and Angel Berroa), he's not going to develop that kind of power hitting that many balls on the ground. Looking at the GB% leaders, only two of them (Crawford and tejada) have acceptable corner OF power, and they're both hitting way more GB's than they ever have
Like I've said before I'd be willing to bet that Don Mattingly has the same focus with Melky that he has with Cano. Recognizing pitches and not trying to do too much with the ball. If you told me that he hit 60 or 70 or 75 percent of balls on the ground I'd be worried but for a 21 year old rookie whose plate approach is to make good contact, I really dont care that half his balls are on the ground and half are in the air.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 10:23 AM
Go get pitching like the 96-00 teams or the 05 White Sox had, then we can live with Melky.
P.S. Gabe Kapler slugged .449 and Ledee .476
If you're saying we need a power OFer because we won't have good pitching than I don't like our chances in the future at all.
However, we do have a couple good pitching prospects, a good, young #2 or #3 in our rotation already and within the next few years the FA market will show some good pitchers.
Astorian
07-15-06, 10:26 AM
Go get pitching like the 96-00 teams or the 05 White Sox had, then we can live with Melky.
I agree. Pitching is a lot more important to winning a championship than a slugging corner outfielder is.
P.S. Gabe Kapler slugged .449 and Ledee .476
P.S. Kapler slugged .390 in 2004 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kaplega01.shtml).
RIYankeeFan
07-15-06, 10:37 AM
New York Daily News: "A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources. The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. "
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 10:41 AM
New York Daily News: "A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources. The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. "
I'm going to say that their rejection was probably half and half. 50 percent because they believe in Cabrera and 50 percent because Burnitz and Torres are both trash and Wilson is decent at best.
longtimeyankeefan
07-15-06, 10:53 AM
New York Daily News: "A little over a week ago, the Pirates approached the Yankees with a deal that would have sent Melky Cabrera and a prospect to Pittsburgh in exchange for Jeromy Burnitz, Craig Wilson and Salomon Torres, according to sources. The Yankees flatly rejected the proposal, mostly because they believe in Cabrera. "
The response should be substitute Crosby for Cabrera and Chacon for the prospect and we have a deal.
In other words, we will give you our trash if you want to give us your transh.
Thats great, but when the Yanks need a hit and Melkys up he has been delivering. Melkys 21 and has a cannon for an arm, he is the future. I think he can be a 20hr .280 85rbi in the future. I do NOT make this trade.
A lot of outfielders fall into the 20 hr .280 85rbi catagory, not good enough for a champ team, sorry.
wileedog
07-15-06, 11:20 AM
Now thats a fallacy. The 98-99 Yanks had a revolving door of left fielders between Chad Curtis, Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee and the most homers any one of them had was 10. ANd why do you think the door kept revolving?
And it wasn't like O'Neill was a big time slugger either, the most HR he ever had during our stretch was 24.
But his SLG was around .475-.520 during his peak years. Melky will probably improve but he has a long way to go to those numbers. The O'Neil comparisons don't wash.
Melky has good speed, a strong arm, and a good bat. He's only 21 so he's definitely still got power to develop and will probably turn into a guy that hits 15-20 a year. I think .280 is way under what he could turn into as a hitter and I think .300 is definitely possible. Plus, as long as we have a LF that is going to hit about 30 hr, a 1b/dh that will hit 30-45 hr and a 3b that will hit 30-45 hr we will not be lacking in the power department if Melky is in RF. None of which makes Melky 'untouchable' if the right trade comes along. (not that i think this one is)
NelsonMuntz
07-15-06, 11:26 AM
Melky is not untouchable but I would pass on this particular deal.
Gehrig'sGhost
07-15-06, 12:25 PM
A lot of outfielders fall into the 20 hr .280 85rbi catagory, not good enough for a champ team, sorry.
OTOH, I'll wager that nearly every, if not every, WS Champion has had one of these types of outfielders. It's what other players the team has that counts.
Spiker101
07-15-06, 12:50 PM
Now thats a fallacy. The 98-99 Yanks had a revolving door of left fielders between Chad Curtis, Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee and the most homers any one of them had was 10. And it wasn't like O'Neill was a big time slugger either, the most HR he ever had during our stretch was 24.
Or if you want to look at a team other than the Yanks, the 2003 Marlins had Conine in RF and he hit .290, .337, 15 hr.
Melky has good speed, a strong arm, and a good bat. He's only 21 so he's definitely still got power to develop and will probably turn into a guy that hits 15-20 a year. I think .280 is way under what he could turn into as a hitter and I think .300 is definitely possible. Plus, as long as we have a LF that is going to hit about 30 hr, a 1b/dh that will hit 30-45 hr and a 3b that will hit 30-45 hr we will not be lacking in the power department if Melky is in RF.
If you don't mind I'll use your post to answer all the others, which are in one variation or another saying the same thing: "you don't need an all-star at every position" and citing the 1996-2000 Yanks to make the point.
I think those who predict Melky will settle into a .300 hitter banging out 20 HRs every season are being wildly optimistic.
But my larger point is that Yankee fans, because of the 1996-00 teams have a distorted view of the real world. What made those teams special offensively was that they got great offensive performances from players in what are usually defensive positions. To wit: Bernie Williams averaged 25-30 homers with an OPS in the .950 range during his six-year at the top of his game; Jorge Posada averaged 25 or so homers with an average OPS of about .925 during his peak. I don't need to tell you what Jeter has accomplished offensively at short.
Those days are going, going, gone. Bernie is playing out the string. Posada MIGHT have another top-flight year with the bat, but by '08 he'll mostly likely won't even be on the team.
Jeter's still got a lot of good years left but 3-4 years down the road, the chances that he remains the same caliber offensive player then are not especially good. We know who Bernie's replacement will be through '09, and he's not the peak Bernie, offensively. We don't know who will replace Jorge, but I can't practically guarantee he won't be Posada's equal with the bat. The point is, to offset the dropoff of offense up the middle, the Yanks will have to find corner players to take up the slack. I see no reason, based on a half-season's observation, to think Melky is that kind of corner player.
My "dream" for him is that he becomes an uber-utility outfielder, along the lines, offensively, of Tony Phillips (without the mental baggage, of course).
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 12:59 PM
ANd why do you think the door kept revolving?
Did it really make a difference? They won the WS both years.
Gehrig'sGhost
07-15-06, 01:04 PM
My "dream" for him is that he becomes an uber-utility outfielder, along the lines, offensively, of Tony Phillips (without the mental baggage, of course)
Which, IMHO, is still more comforting as you sleep than the nightmare of Burnitz, and to a far lesser extent Wilson.
As others have said, while Melky isn't the next coming, he is worth more than this trade would offer.
Soriambi
07-15-06, 01:11 PM
I don't see any reason to do this deal, but I do think that people are overrating Melky quite a bit. I read in here somewhere that he's "projected to win batting titles," and I think that that's about as wildly optimistic as you can get. I hope it happens (if he's a Yankee), but I haven't seen anything in either his minor or major league career to indicate that he'll ever be a batting title contender. His career minor league average was .285. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but I think it's quite unlikely. I think that Cano is far more likely to win a batting title some day than Melky. I'm pretty much with Spiker on all points here.
Soriambi
07-15-06, 01:13 PM
Did it really make a difference? They won the WS both years.
But did they win the WS because they didn't have a good LF? No-they won it because they had good players at lots of other positions.
homer2931
07-15-06, 01:42 PM
I agree. Pitching is a lot more important to winning a championship than a slugging corner outfielder is.
P.S. Kapler slugged .390 in 2004 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kaplega01.shtml).
And in no way was he a regular, he was half a platoon
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-15-06, 01:51 PM
Melky would be lucky to hit anywhere near 15, he has never been projected as a power hitter. He doesn't drive the ball, he slaps at it...
New Murderer's Row
07-15-06, 01:51 PM
maybe none of you care, but wilson's career OPS against lefties is .971. this year: 1.000. against righties, he's still superior to melky cabrera on either side of the plate: a .759 OPS this year, in his career .802.
he's a former backup catcher, maybe the yankees could do with him what the astros did with eric munson on occasion. since andy phillips is hitting .194 .231 .489 versus lefties, it would be a good idea to have wilson in the lineup. burnitz is crap, yeah, but he could be a decent pinch-hitter against right-handers, and he's not as awful as he has been thus far with pittsburgh.
melky cabrera is the same mediocre hitter from both sides of the plate, a .750 OPS guy tops. his career minor league stats are .285 .339 .748...odds are he's not going to do much better than that. even if this is a temporary fix, cabrera can easily be replaced next season from within or free agency
if he doesn't want to trade cabrera, it would at least be a good idea for cashman to explore getting craig wilson
ryanthe13th
07-15-06, 02:02 PM
Craig Wilson can't field to save his life. Melky can hit and field plus he's 21. I'm guessing the only way to get Wilson would be to take Burnitz as well. Hopefully his deal is just a rumor and won't be taking place.
Spiker101
07-15-06, 02:05 PM
Which, IMHO, is still more comforting as you sleep than the nightmare of Burnitz, and to a far lesser extent Wilson.
As others have said, while Melky isn't the next coming, he is worth more than this trade would offer.
Yeah, I agree with the consensus here: that this particular deal isn't worth giving up Melky.
wileedog
07-15-06, 02:40 PM
Did it really make a difference? They won the WS both years.Point is that even with a Dynasty level of talent on the rest of the team, the FO was not satisfied runining a mediocre LFer out there.
Why should they be?
And this is no longer a team with Dynasty level talent, particularly on the pitching side.
Spiker put the rest better than I could.
PlsDontTearDownY.S.
07-15-06, 02:43 PM
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060714&content_id=1556684&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Melky Cabrera on the other hand, may not be.
According to a Major League executive, the Yankees and Pirates have discussed a deal that would send the young outfielder to Pittsburgh in exchange for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and first baseman/outfielder Craig Wilson.
:barf: For those guys no way. If pitching was involved I would be more open to trading Melky but still reluctant.
Boogiedown Bomber
07-15-06, 02:52 PM
Cashman can't be serious about considering this as a trade? Burnitz!?!?!?!?!?!?
jimmykey2
07-15-06, 03:41 PM
I'm not saying Melky is a big time prospect or talent, but I did expect to see Oliver Perez' name when I clicked on this thread.
Burnitz and/or Craig Wilson?
No thanks.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 04:31 PM
But did they win the WS because they didn't have a good LF? No-they won it because they had good players at lots of other positions.
Jeter, Arod, Giambi, Posada, Cano, Damon, Matsui and Melky....
that is the exact definition of good players at lots of positions. If Melky were to only hit 10-20 hr it wouldnt hurt THAT lineup at all. Great power in the middle, great speed at the top, and good hitters at the bottom.
they could easily win the world series with that lineup if they had the pitching to do so.
plus you act as if melky can't hit at all. you act like he'd be a gaping hole in the lineup, when really he'll probably turn into a very nice hitter with a good obp seeing as how he's already shown good patience and the ability to draw a walk. melky is much better than chad curtis or shane spencer.
PittsburghYankeeFan
07-15-06, 04:36 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I heard that this trade was offered to Cashman and rejected last week.
It's a dumb trade, smart move to reject.
brosiusbuddy
07-15-06, 04:38 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I heard that this trade was offered to Cashman and rejected last week.
It's a dumb trade, smart move to reject.
the trade really isnt even the topic at hand anymore and its basically turned into a thread about Melky's value.
JeffWeaverFan
07-15-06, 05:11 PM
That deal doesn't work out for us at all. Melky is the guy we need to keep in LF while we need to find someone else to play RF. I like Craig Wilson but I don't want to give up Melky to get him. And Burnitz is just terrible.
Astorian
07-15-06, 09:48 PM
And in no way was he a regular, he was half a platoon
He played in 136 games that year. It's still a lot of playing time on a championship team for a non-slugging corner outfielder.
homer2931
07-15-06, 10:46 PM
He played in 136 games that year. It's still a lot of playing time on a championship team for a non-slugging corner outfielder.
He got 290 AB's, clearly he was inserted into the majority of those games as a pinch runner, defnesive replacement or picnh hitting for Nixon when a lefty came in
Astorian
07-15-06, 11:13 PM
Nixon only played in 48 games that year. Kapler was the guy that played in RF the most for that team. He spent 590 innings in RF, Millar spent 425 innings there and Nixon 306 innings.
Besides, there are a number of other examples of non-slugging corner outfielders on championship teams that have already been listed here.
RollingWave
07-16-06, 12:04 AM
I'm thinking this deal already fell off if it's being talked about in such details. it makes little sense for the Yankees... minor short term boost and major long term penalty.
trapper700
07-16-06, 12:13 AM
unless it's jason bay coming over... no.
ARodCanoMelky
07-16-06, 02:14 AM
Not that manny 18-19 year old's hit for power in the minors. Melky was very young when he was in AA. Also not every great player showed power while in the minors.
Chairman-of-TheBoard
07-16-06, 03:18 AM
Sorry, I cannot believe this one. Burnitz is trash and Wilson isn't worth it. I cannot believe that Cashman can't see how much Melky has improved over his tour last season. Compared to how Melky stumbled into 2005, 2006 has been more than a triumph.
Defensively, he has been a much needed breath of fresh air. At bat, I don't expect him to perform like Cano because Cano is going to a batting champion in the future. However, Melky has held his own against vets and younger pitchers and strikes me as a remarkably smart hitter for his experience.
No, if Melky is being traded, something of value and promise will be coming back... Of higher value than a Burnitz/Wilson package.
Jerkface
07-16-06, 04:10 AM
I cannot believe that Cashman can't see how much Melky has improved over his tour last season. Compared to how Melky stumbled into 2005, 2006 has been more than a triumph.
Cashman obviously CAN see because he rejected the offer. :eek:
TheMelkMan
07-16-06, 10:02 AM
Cashman obviously CAN see because he rejected the offer.
Thank god. I'd vomit if Burnitz came to the Yanks, and I'd like Wilson, but I'm not keen on giving up cabrera. Do you know if he definately said No, or is that as much of a rumor as the trade itself.
Good news that Cashman rejected that deal. Melky's got some nice intangibles that don't translate to the obvious offensive stats. He's a great baserunner, he has nice range in the OF, & has a very strong & accurate arm. Plus, he's got a great personality that really livens up the business like atmosphere of the Yankee dugout. I think that really helps to keep the veterans loose & excited about games when they see that youthful energy that guys like Cano & Melky bring to the table. Unless it's for a bonafide star, I say no deal on any Melky trades.
brosiusbuddy
07-16-06, 07:25 PM
He's a great baserunner, he has nice range in the OF, & has a very strong & accurate arm. .
I agree with the fact that Melky shouldn't be traded, at least not unless its for a very good young talent, but lets not overdo it about him.
He is a fast runner, not a great runner. He hasn't got the experience needed to be a great baserunner. Very few rookies enter the league as great baserunners. Awareness, the ability to read the ball of the bat, and the knowledge of the fielders' strengths and weaknesses among other things are all traits of a great baserunner, but they develop with experience.
He has a strong arm. He doesnt rally have an accurate arm. He has made some accurate throws and gotten 8 assists, but by no means has he made them consistently enough. There have been occasions where he's missed cutoff men and its allowed baserunners to advance.
With that said, becoming a great baserunner and developing arm accuracy do come over time and Melky seems to be the type of player who could easily develop these traits.
I like Melky very much & hope the Yankees hold onto him. It's always fun to see a young player develop, & he seems to have a lot of potential and can handle the big stage very nicely.
PittsburghYankeeFan
07-16-06, 09:13 PM
Maybe this trade rumor was floated by Theo's syncophants in the media...sounds like a Sawx wet dream.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060714&content_id=1556684&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Notes: Cabrera may be on way out
Whispered trade with Pittsburgh includes Burnitz, Craig Wilson
NEW YORK -- General manager Brian Cashman has made it clear that pitching prospect Philip Hughes is as close to untouchable as any player in the Yankees' farm system.
Melky Cabrera on the other hand, may not be.
According to a Major League executive, the Yankees and Pirates have discussed a deal that would send the young outfielder to Pittsburgh in exchange for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz and first baseman/outfielder Craig Wilson.
This trade will never happen.
Shaun4013
07-16-06, 10:03 PM
That deal has about as much chance of happening as the Royals have a chance of winning the AL Central.
brosiusbuddy
07-16-06, 10:09 PM
That deal has about as much chance of happening as the Royals have a chance of winning the AL Central.
The Tigers, White Sox, Twins and Indians could all get on the wrong plane, fly over seas by mistake, get lost, and be stuck there for the rest of the season causing them to forfeit their seasons thus resulting in KC as the central divison champs. The chances are about 1 in a gaziliion, but the chance exists nonetheless.
Seeing as how Cashman declined this trade offer last week, no chance exists.
Spaceboy88
07-16-06, 10:28 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=489&line=185000&spln=1
The New York Daily News reports that the Yankees turned down an offer to send Melky Cabrera and "a prospect" to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz and Salomon Torres.
Dannman103
07-16-06, 10:55 PM
on the subject of Melky's power (or apparent lack thereof)...lets not forget that when bernie first came up many people questioned whether or not he would ever hit for power...it wasnt until '96 that he hit more than 20 homers
in melky's case, he is surrounded by so many other power hitters that the team can afford to let him develop...I'd rather have a guy that doesnt show power early on but has a good approach to hitting than a guy who comes up and hits homers, but strikes out a lot and has a low average
Shaun4013
07-16-06, 10:57 PM
on the subject of Melky's power (or apparent lack thereof)...lets not forget that when bernie first came up many people questioned whether or not he would ever hit for power...it wasnt until '96 that he hit more than 20 homers
in melky's case, he is surrounded by so many other power hitters that the team can afford to let him develop...I'd rather have a guy that doesnt show power early on but has a good approach to hitting than a guy who comes up and hits homers, but strikes out a lot and has a low average
In my opinion, I dont even care if he hits for power. He hits for solid contact, and does all the little things exceptional. In 5 years this kid will be a star, period. If the yanks trade him, it would be a travesty.
PittsburghYankeeFan
07-16-06, 11:27 PM
on the subject of Melky's power (or apparent lack thereof)...lets not forget that when bernie first came up many people questioned whether or not he would ever hit for power...it wasnt until '96 that he hit more than 20 homers
in melky's case, he is surrounded by so many other power hitters that the team can afford to let him develop...I'd rather have a guy that doesnt show power early on but has a good approach to hitting than a guy who comes up and hits homers, but strikes out a lot and has a low average
right on
he's only 21, they love his plate approach, and the power will come
I agree with the fact that Melky shouldn't be traded, at least not unless its for a very good young talent, but lets not overdo it about him.
He is a fast runner, not a great runner. He hasn't got the experience needed to be a great baserunner. Very few rookies enter the league as great baserunners. Awareness, the ability to read the ball of the bat, and the knowledge of the fielders' strengths and weaknesses among other things are all traits of a great baserunner, but they develop with experience.
He has a strong arm. He doesnt rally have an accurate arm. He has made some accurate throws and gotten 8 assists, but by no means has he made them consistently enough. There have been occasions where he's missed cutoff men and its allowed baserunners to advance.
With that said, becoming a great baserunner and developing arm accuracy do come over time and Melky seems to be the type of player who could easily develop these traits.
Sorry, have to disagree with you there. Melky's shown me some good instincts running the bases. The game vs. Boston where he scored from 1B on the play where he ran home when he saw Veritek was out of position & not covering home plate comes right to mind. There's been plenty other occasions where he seems to have gotten a good read on balls that are hit & is able to score where some other runners on this team may not have been able to score on, & he's always looking to stretch a single into a double, & a double into a triple, at every opportunity. That takes instincts & hustle, 2 intangible qualities that are hard to teach. You either have it or you don't. Melky has it IMO, & I believe he's going to make many more good plays running the bases for this franchise if given the chance to mature & grow in the pinstripes.
& I don't see how you say he doesn't have an accurate arm when he's thrown guys out at the plate on several occasions this year, today's throw on a fly to Jorge's glove not withstanding. Does he airmail balls sometimes? Sure, but the balls gets to Jorge's glove in a position to make the tag on the guy coming home. He also threw out Texeira on that collission play at the plate w/Jorge too if I recall correctly on a 1 hopper right to Jorge's glove. How much more accurate do you expect his arm to get?
brosiusbuddy
07-17-06, 12:23 AM
Sorry, have to disagree with you there. Melky's shown me some good instincts running the bases. The game vs. Boston where he scored from 1B on the play where he ran home when he saw Veritek was out of position & not covering home plate comes right to mind. There's been plenty other occasions where he seems to have gotten a good read on balls that are hit & is able to score where some other runners on this team may not have been able to score on, & he's always looking to stretch a single into a double, & a double into a triple, at every opportunity. That takes instincts & hustle, 2 intangible qualities that are hard to teach. You either have it or you don't. Melky has it IMO, & I believe he's going to make many more good plays running the bases for this franchise if given the chance to mature & grow in the pinstripes.
& I don't see how you say he doesn't have an accurate arm when he's thrown guys out at the plate on several occasions this year, today's throw on a fly to Jorge's glove not withstanding. Does he airmail balls sometimes? Sure, but the balls gets to Jorge's glove in a position to make the tag on the guy coming home. He also threw out Texeira on that collission play at the plate w/Jorge too if I recall correctly on a 1 hopper right to Jorge's glove. How much more accurate do you expect his arm to get?
as you have the right to disagree i have the right to say you're wrong. he still has a long way to go to become a great baserunner. a single incident where he scored because no one was guarding the plate does not merit him to be a great baserunner. he has the speed but the other things i mentioned in the post to which you're responding are all part of being a great baserunner and those take a little time to acquire.
same with the arm. i mean, you said it yourself, he airmails the ball sometimes. you cant hit your target only sometimes and be accurate. if an archer hits the bullseye a few times but hits the outside of the target a lot too, is he accurate? to be labeled accurate you have to be consistent, but melky is not... YET. you'll notice that sometimes when fielding a fly he doesn't set himself up as best he can to make an accurate throw and at other times he improperly gauges the distance he's throwing the ball so it might not be far enough and take an inbetween hop and other times it'll go sailing.
he has the tools to become a good baserunner and have an accurate arm but i wouldnt label him as fully possessing either trait just yet
flymick24
07-17-06, 06:13 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=489&line=185000&spln=1
The New York Daily News reports that the Yankees turned down an offer to send Melky Cabrera and "a prospect" to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz and Salomon Torres.
maybe they thought salomon was related to joe? that's the only rational reason i could come up with for the bucs offering him to us.....
maybe they thought salomon was related to joe? that's the only rational reason i could come up with for the bucs offering him to us.....
That, and he has two more years left on his contract. Littefield must think that Cash is as stupid as he is.
flymick24
07-17-06, 06:27 AM
That, and he has two more years left on his contract. Littefield must think that Cash is as stupid as he is.
anyone who offered burnitz $7 mil HAS to be missing a few chromosomes
shotgun pete
07-17-06, 06:43 AM
This actually seems like a fair deal its will kind of be a wash for pittsburg because Melky will not discover his power for a while but they are getting rid of salary. While the yanks are getting a quailty player and an above average fill in until sheffield comes back
flymick24
07-17-06, 06:45 AM
This actually seems like a fair deal its will kind of be a wash for pittsburg because Melky will not discover his power for a while but they are getting rid of salary. While the yanks are getting a quailty player and an above average fill in until sheffield comes back
if the yankees have to absorb salary, i prefer they do it for a player who will actually contribute to the team (i.e. abreu) rather than someone like burnitz, who would undoubtedly just become a wasted roster spot
shotgun pete
07-17-06, 07:21 AM
if the yankees have to absorb salary, i prefer they do it for a player who will actually contribute to the team (i.e. abreu) rather than someone like burnitz, who would undoubtedly just become a wasted roster spot
Yes Abreu would be a better contributer but he would also cost about 12.5 million more this season plus burnitz can still hit for power probably on the same level as Abreu has this season.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 08:51 AM
i would not mind craig wilson but i don't like burnitzIf we're going to have an older player in the deal, make it Roberrto Hernandez. He could help the bullpen.
Besides, why would the Yankee need both Wilson AND Burnitz? Do they think they need 2OFs? If so, then let's talk to Washington about Soriano and Guillen or the Phillies about Abreu aand Burrell.
YankeeClemens22
07-17-06, 09:00 AM
I hope this is just BS from the press trying to stir interest by writing a Yankees story.
The trade makes no sense -- we know Cash is smarter than this. PLEEEEASE tell me it's not true.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:04 AM
Ick.
I understand wanting to make a less costly trade, but junk is junk.Wilson isn't junk, but Burnitz is.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:08 AM
Cashman said he wouldn't trade away our future. Melky is not our future, I'm sorry to say.
He may not be a prime part of it, but he's a godo complementary player. That is to say, he is not a Bernie in his prime, but he is more like a Chad Curtis: a good, not great, additional part for a contender, competent, adequate, never a star.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:10 AM
Wilson 2006 obp .347 slg.485 ba.268
Burnitz 2006 obp .277 slg.419 ba.228
Meaning that if my math is correct, Wilson has an OPS of .832, which isn't bad, and Burnitz has an OPS of .696, which is.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:13 AM
I'm scared there's a pitcher in this we're not hearing about, like Beam????Proctor? :)
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:27 AM
Nationals outfielder Jose Guillen also has been deemed a possibility, though there is a debate going on within the organization over whether adding Guillen’s reportedly acidic personality to the Yankees’ clubhouse would be a good idea — early indications are that the Yanks have some reservations about it. ¶
Several Yankee executives, according to sources, believe that Guillen’s moodiness and cantankerous edge could ruin the Yanks’ camaraderie; others, however, believe Guillen likely could be acquired on the cheap and would be an adequate replacement for the injured Gary Sheffield. ¶ [/size][/font]
Guillen has a good RF arm. He hasn't been hitting, but there are indications that RFK has gotten in his head and a change of scenery might liven up his bat.
The Yankees have added troublesome personalities bnefore, and the leadership cadre has managed to keep them in check and help them blend into the Yankees' environment.
Of course, the Washington outfielder the Yanks would love to have is Alfonso Soriano, and they’ll continue to monitor his availability, but the Angels seem to have the inside track on trading for the ex-Bomber. If Anaheim backs off, then the Yanks would try to make it happen, though it will be tough to protect their top prospects unless the Nats aren’t able to find anyone who meets their demands. ¶ [/size][/font]
I would love to have Sori back in Pinstripes, but I'm afraid it will take Hughes. If we could do it for Melky, a pitcher like Clippard or DeSalvo, a Beam or Smith, and maybe a throw-in of some sort, I'd have to think about making the deal. Put in a little more (Eric Duncan?) and see if the Nats would send up Armas or Hernandez (or maybe Ramon Ortiz.)
The Yanks have had dialogue with the Pirates about Craig Wilson and/or Jeromy Burnitz, but weren’t interested in dealing Melky Cabrera for both players when the subject came up recently. ¶ [/size][/font]
Burnitz is garbage. Getting Roberto Hernandez would be a more effective use of resources.
Cashman wouldn’t comment on any specific deals but has said he’s determined to find a deal that will help the team in the present without stripping any of its key pieces for the future. "It’s a tough tightrope to walk but it’s the one I’m walking," he said. ¶ [/size][/font]
A real balancing act.
The market for pitchers appears to be thin as far as the Bombers are concerned; although the White Sox are dangling Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez, the Yanks don’t figure to have the chips to pull of a blockbuster deal for a pitcher. Jon Lieber could be a possibility if the Phillies’ have a fire sale, but he’s struggled this season and might not be much of an upgrade at this point anyway. ¶ [/size][/font]
I wonder what it would take to get Javy back. The White Sox want bullpen help. Farnsworth and Chacon? Deal for Hernandez and Wickman, let Kyle and Shawn move to Chi-town, protect the bullpen, upgrade the rotation, and it may not take prime prospects.
As much as anything else, that’s why the Yanks picked up Sidney Ponson. If they get lucky with the former 17-game winner, then they can focus all of their attention on adding a bat. ¶ [/size][/font]
Hopefully it works out. Sir Sidney has been effective in the past with Moose as his mentor; let's see if he has anything left.
Jersey Yankee
07-17-06, 09:29 AM
I'm sure that Jeromy's .692 OPS will inspire shivers amongst the Beantowners.
So long as he was one of the overpriced guys from Steve Phillips' selling Fred Wilpon an overpriced pile of junk, I'll definitely pass. $6m for that? Must be tough getting good help these days.
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