View Full Version : Melky bidding adieu?? Rumored deal to Pittsburgh
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:39 AM
Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:
Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen
For:
Beam, Smith, Cabrera
That's better than the Pittsburgh deal, although I would rather include Beam OR Smith, not both. (The Nats do need bullpen help, however, having just sent it all to Cincinnati.) If they want both, they can send Stanton back to us or include Rauch (the latter of which they won't do.)
I'd really prefer not to give up either, but you have to give somethign to get something. Smith is a rookie at 27 who has been effective in a short stint with the Yankees, but it's a very small sample. Making his first ML appearances at 27, he's a late bloomer even for a pitcher, and pitchers tend to arrive a little later than hitters. Matt Smith's primary virtue is that he's lefthanded and under 30.
Fick is a solid lefty pinch-hitter who could be useful off the bench, and he plays 1B, DH, a little OF, and emergency catcher, although he currently serves as Washington's #2 catcher right now, so if the Yankees wanted to get him (and I am not opposed to that), they'd probably have to throw in someone like Koyie Hill or Wil Nieves so the Nationals would have a real backup catcher. Otherwise, their only backup is Matt LeCroy, and believe me, you'd rather have Fick behind the plate.
Livan seems to be the kind of guy who thrives in a pennant race but slumps when his team is out of it. Maybe Pinstripes would do him good. He certainly isn't any more of a gamble than Sir Sidney. And he's an innings eater, which reduces stress on the bullpen.
TheMelkMan
07-17-06, 09:48 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=489&line=185000&spln=1
The New York Daily News reports that the Yankees turned down an offer to send Melky Cabrera and "a prospect" to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz and Salomon Torres.
:giveup:
Jeromy Burnitz= :roflmao:
How stupid does Pittsburgh think Cashman is? Personally, I think all the other GM's are trying to wait it out, condfident they can circle enough rumors that they can get Steinbrenner to step in and demand one of those outrageous trades to be made. Craig Wilson isn't worth Melky alone, especially, not with the deadweight contracts of Burnitz and Torres.
Thank god Cashman refused this deal! If Pittsburgh is looking to fleece someone, I highly suggest the folks in Cincinatti, I hear they're real suckers. Even Bowden ripped them off. Or, go for good old KC.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:52 AM
I doubt it. Now if the trade looks something like this:
Pittsburgh gets:
OF Melky Cabrera
Mid-level pitching prospect
New York gets:
1B/OF Craig Wilson
OF Jeromy Burnitz
LHP Oliver Perez
Now you're talking.It would be even better if they replaced Burnitz with Roberto Hernandez.
And I don't think that Pittsburgh is likely to part with Oliver Perez. Maholm, maybe, but not Perez or Snell.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 09:55 AM
ummmm.... no thanks pittsburg, u can keep burnitz and wilson.I wouldn't mind Wilson for the right price. Melky is too much. Now, if we could get him for KT and maybe a mid-level minor-league pitcher (DeSalvo?), I'd do it.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 10:02 AM
I wouldn't consider Melky untouchable, but I'd be very picky about what deal I got for him.
Hitman23
07-17-06, 10:09 AM
oh no. :eek:
Quangormo
07-17-06, 10:11 AM
Similar stats? I guess we can jsut ignore the 110 point lead Wilson has in SLG%
Is Juan Rivera all that good? I'd take him, but he's not the kind of guy who should be untradeable, and neither is Melky
Exactly, but only in the right deal. You don't just trade him. You hold him and use him until the right deal comes along.
I'd take Rivera back, but he's no star, just a solid player. And if the Yankees trade Melky, we'll be working on ways to get him back in five to seven years.
This is not going to happen. Trading for a 37-year-old outfielder who is about to become a free agent is exactly the opposite of what Cashman said he is trying to do.
wileedog
07-17-06, 10:17 AM
Trading for a 37-year-old outfielder who is about to become a free agent is exactly the opposite of what Cashman said he is trying to do.
True, but in fairness Cashman said that before his two starting corner Ofers went down to injury.
However I have trouble believing we'll move Melky just for a stopgap.
shotgun pete
07-17-06, 10:38 AM
I honestly doubt cashman could pull a fick,livan,guillen for beam,smith,cabrera deal the yanks would also have to throw in wang or tabata three starters for three decent prospects will not cut it IMO.
Exactly, but only in the right deal. You don't just trade him. You hold him and use him until the right deal comes along.
I'd take Rivera back, but he's no star, just a solid player. And if the Yankees trade Melky, we'll be working on ways to get him back in five to seven years.
Are you suggesting that the NYY are looking for ways to get Juan Rivera back? I wasn't aware.
mrmike98
07-17-06, 11:03 AM
The Yankees have been scouting Kris Benson. I'd pursue him providing Angelos doesn't ask for the world (Hughes) or chooses to avoid dealing with George.
metalboy15
07-17-06, 11:16 AM
after reading some of the posts here in this thread i gotta say that some of you guys are obssesed with a player´s power, we don´t need HR hitters at every position, look how we won Saturday, playing small ball, (i hate to bring this up but) look at the Red Sox, they only have 2 HR hitters and the last time i checked they were doing well, again, look at the Cardinals, they only have 1 maybe 2 (with Scott Rolen) HR´s hitters.
bottom line is we dont need ALL-STARS HR hitters at every position, once Matsui returns we´ll have 3 HR hitters in our lineup, games are won with pitching and defense.
keep Melky!!!
Quangormo
07-17-06, 11:42 AM
The Tigers, White Sox, Twins and Indians could all get on the wrong plane, fly over seas by mistake, get lost, and be stuck there for the rest of the season causing them to forfeit their seasons
And KC would still lose to them!
goin for 27
07-17-06, 11:48 AM
Hopefully it works out. Sir Sidney has been effective in the past with Moose as his mentor; let's see if he has anything left.
Moose as his mentor? Where did this come from? I definitely don't see Moose cozying up to a guy like Ponson....
Also, when does a guy going on his 9th season need a mentor?
He needs to stay out of bars, out of jail, etc....
Quangormo
07-17-06, 11:51 AM
I honestly doubt cashman could pull a fick,livan,guillen for beam,smith,cabrera deal the yanks would also have to throw in wang or tabata three starters for three decent prospects will not cut it IMO.Fick is not a starter; he's a bench player for the Nats. Washington needs bullpen guys after the trade with the Reds.
ryanm1058123
07-17-06, 11:53 AM
after reading some of the posts here in this thread i gotta say that some of you guys are obssesed with a player´s power, we don´t need HR hitters at every position, look how we won Saturday, playing small ball, (i hate to bring this up but) look at the Red Sox, they only have 2 HR hitters and the last time i checked they were doing well, again, look at the Cardinals, they only have 1 maybe 2 (with Scott Rolen) HR´s hitters.
bottom line is we dont need ALL-STARS HR hitters at every position, once Matsui returns we´ll have 3 HR hitters in our lineup, games are won with pitching and defense.
keep Melky!!!
you do not need HRs at every position. You need XBHs at every position. doubles. triples. stuff like that. you can't get single after single with this team because of the soft bottom of the lineup which is why you need lots of XBHs. I don't neccessarily want Melky to hit a ton of HRs.. but I do want him to slug into the .400s
Quangormo
07-17-06, 11:54 AM
Are you suggesting that the NYY are looking for ways to get Juan Rivera back? I wasn't aware.Somebody floated Rivera's name in this thread, as a comparison to Melky. I haven't heard anythign saying that we're trying to get Rivera back, although it wouldn't be bad to do so. But what I was saying was that since I'd happily take Rivera back in teh right deal, it would take only a special deal to mvoe the new Rivera -- namely, Melky.
yanksphan
07-17-06, 11:58 AM
:giveup:
Salomon Torres= :roflmao:
How stupid does Pittsburgh think Cashman is?
Says the guy laughing at arguably the most needed player in the trade...
Torres ERA+ as a reliever:
2002 - 160
2003 - starter
2004 - 157
2005 - 155
I'd take those numbers and this contract:
07:$2.6M, 08:$3.2M, 09:$3.75M club option ($0.3M buyout)
over most of our bullpen.
I'm not for the trade, but the dig on Torres is misguided.
Quangormo
07-17-06, 12:00 PM
The Yankees have been scouting Kris Benson. I'd pursue him providing Angelos doesn't ask for the world (Hughes) or chooses to avoid dealing with George.Benson could help. He's a good third starter who has been forced into the ace role with a bad team. And all I would give Bawlmore is the price that a third starter fetches.
What do you think would be a godo price for Benson? Would you give up Wright for him? It would reunite Wright with his guru, Leo Mazzone. Do they want Reese or Thompson? Maybe Nick Green? They may trade Tejada, so unless they get a SS they're probably going with Eddie Rogers. So they might wnat an OF or a SS, plus a pitcher.
Do we incllude someone like Chacon or Small?
Says the guy laughing at arguably the most needed player in the trade...
Torres ERA+ as a reliever:
2002 - 160
2003 - starter
2004 - 157
2005 - 155
I'm not for the trade, but the dig on Torres is misguided.
Wow! I would of never thought Torres had numbers like those.
penfold
07-17-06, 12:01 PM
He may not be a prime part of it, but he's a godo complementary player. That is to say, he is not a Bernie in his prime, but he is more like a Chad Curtis: a good, not great, additional part for a contender, competent, adequate, never a star.
I like this comparison.
metalboy15
07-17-06, 12:27 PM
you do not need HRs at every position. You need XBHs at every position. doubles. triples. stuff like that. you can't get single after single with this team because of the soft bottom of the lineup which is why you need lots of XBHs. I don't neccessarily want Melky to hit a ton of HRs.. but I do want him to slug into the .400s
well for comparison: XB%
Derek Jeter: 26%
Robinson Canó: 25%
Melky Cabrera: 24%
it´s not like he´s not getting extra base hits... :)
cordell
07-17-06, 12:30 PM
Keep Melky. He'll only get better.Yankees need to have 50% home grown talent.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 12:34 PM
well for comparison: XB%
Derek Jeter: 26%
Robinson Canó: 25%
Melky Cabrera: 24%
it´s not like he´s not getting extra base hits... :)
SLG %:
Jeter: .475
Cano: .439
Melky: .377
EDIT: Also take in account the fact that Melky is a corner outfielder, and Jeter and Cano are infielders, for a corner outfielder, Melky is slugging well below the league average...
wileedog
07-17-06, 12:35 PM
SLG %:
Jeter: .475
Cano: .439
Melky: .377
Plus that's a SS and a 2Bmen you're talking about, not a corner OFer.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 12:37 PM
Plus that's a SS and a 2Bmen you're talking about, not a corner OFer.
See my late EDIT...;)
ryanm1058123
07-17-06, 12:39 PM
I do not want to trade Melky. It is not like he does not have the power, because he does. He needs to lose the baby fat, put some muscle and some power on him, and he will be a servicable corner OF who plays a plus defense which every team is looking for.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 12:48 PM
I do not want to trade Melky. It is not like he does not have the power, because he does. He needs to lose the baby fat, put some muscle and some power on him, and he will be a servicable corner OF who plays a plus defense which every team is looking for.
The thing is, it is like he doesn't have power. His SLG ranks him 19th of the 20 LFers in the league for those who qualify.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=slugAvg&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=lf
Yes, its possible for him to gain muscle and have more power ect ect...Although he has never really shown much power in his minor league career, but again he could gain some. The question becomes can the Yankees afford to have one of the worst offensive leftfielders, while being in a close race for the division and the Wild Card. I think not...
This is how I would currently rate Melky and his potential:
ability to hit for average = above average
ability to hit for power = below to average
plate discipline = above average
speed = above average
defense = average to above average
arm = above average
basestealing = average
He has already shown the above average arm and plate discipline. All the Yankee scouts say he should be able to hit for high average. Defensively I think he can be average to above average, he doesn't always take the best routes to ball, but has the speed to make up for it and he might get better with more experience. For basestealing, I put average, he has the speed, but probably not the instincts. He has never shown the ability to steal bases in the minors. I think his peak is having the power of an average ML corner outfielder. But overall as a player, he has more things going for him than not. I think as his career progress, his only flaw will be power, but if he does everything else above average, he'll be a very good player.
Maynerd
07-17-06, 02:20 PM
Well now, we've compared Melky to Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neal, Chad Curtis, and Derek jeter. It's tough to tell exactly what we've got when he's so young, and when he seems to be improving every single day.
Allow me to introduce another comparison: Roy White.
Roy was a corner outfielder. He didn't hit for a lot of power. But in his 15 year career in pinstripes, he was a two-time All Star, and made the league's top ten in batting (once), OBP (4 times), OPS (twice), and led the league once in runs scored.
Can Melky put up comparable numbers? I think he can exceed Roy's numbers, though it's too early to tell for sure. As a Yankee fan, I enjoyed having Roy White on this team as a long-time reliable contributor. I'd much rather keep Melky than send him off for somebody else's aging junk. Roy White is hardly a Hall of Famer. But he was a better-than-decent ballplayer (and a class act) for a long time. If Melky can meet or exceed White's results, I'd be willing to keep him in a corner outfield position for as long as Roy did.
Pass. And I'll continue to pass unless the offer has some significant value.
SINCE77 2
07-17-06, 02:25 PM
Well now, we've compared Melky to Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neal, Chad Curtis, and Derek jeter. It's tough to tell exactly what we've got when he's so young, and when he seems to be improving every single day.
Allow me to introduce another comparison: Roy White.
Roy was a corner outfielder. He didn't hit for a lot of power. But in his 15 year career in pinstripes, he was a two-time All Star, and made the league's top ten in batting (once), OBP (4 times), OPS (twice), and led the league once in runs scored.
Can Melky put up comparable numbers? I think he can exceed Roy's numbers, though it's too early to tell for sure. As a Yankee fan, I enjoyed having Roy White on this team as a long-time reliable contributor. I'd much rather keep Melky than send him off for somebody else's aging junk. Roy White is hardly a Hall of Famer. But he was a better-than-decent ballplayer (and a class act) for a long time. If Melky can meet or exceed White's results, I'd be willing to keep him in a corner outfield position for as long as Roy did.
Pass. And I'll continue to pass unless the offer has some significant value.
Roy and Willie were my favorite Yankees of the seventies.. I completely agree with you.
jughead
07-17-06, 02:44 PM
The thing is, it is like he doesn't have power. His SLG ranks him 19th of the 20 LFers in the league for those who qualify.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=slugAvg&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=lf
Yes, its possible for him to gain muscle and have more power ect ect...Although he has never really shown much power in his minor league career, but again he could gain some. The question becomes can the Yankees afford to have one of the worst offensive leftfielders, while being in a close race for the division and the Wild Card. I think not...
Minor League Careers
AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285
OBP
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340
SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409
AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57
XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1
Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill
I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-17-06, 02:48 PM
Minor League Careers
AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285
AVG
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340
SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409
AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57
XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1
Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill
I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.
Wasnt Paulie's swing changed once he made the Red's though? And you have AVG twice, do you mean OBP for the second one?
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 02:55 PM
Minor League Careers
AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285
AVG
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340
SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409
AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57
XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1
Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill
I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.
Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...
Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...
Delayed gratification does not appear to be part of the NYY vision.
jughead
07-17-06, 03:02 PM
Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.
Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-17-06, 03:05 PM
O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.
Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!
The problem is that his swing doesnt show any signs of hitting for power. He doesnt really use his lower body to drive the ball, he slaps at it. Changing that might give him more power but it will make his average go down as well.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 03:07 PM
O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.
Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!
The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=lf)
Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-17-06, 03:10 PM
The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=lf)
Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...
Just out of curiousity, where would he rank for CF? That was what he played in the minors.
O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.
Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!
Do you think Melky would be getting regular playing time under normal circumstances?
Sure, let's be careful with the young guys but let's not make them seem bigger than they are. That will lead to disappointment
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 03:12 PM
Just out of curiousity, where would he rank for CF? That was what he played in the minors.
He's not projected to be a CFer but right now 15th...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?seasonType=2&type=reg&sort=OPS&minpa=0&split=0&season=2006&pos=cf&hand=a&league=mlb&ageMin=17&ageMax=51
jughead
07-17-06, 03:13 PM
Do you think Melky would be getting regular playing time under normal circumstances?
Sure, let's be careful with the young guys but let's not make them seem bigger than they are. That will lead to disappointment
You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz
That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 03:14 PM
You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz
That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!
No one is advocating trading Melky for Burnitz...
jughead
07-17-06, 03:17 PM
The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2006&seasonType=2&sort=OPS&type=reg&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=lf)
Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...
Yeah, because comparing Melky to Hall of Famers like Manny sure is a fair way of judging him.
How about comparing the MLB stats of the players on that list when they were 21 to Melky's?
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-17-06, 03:19 PM
You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz
That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!
Where the ................ did anybody say to do that? Stop making crap up.
You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz
That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!
Wow, where did that come from? I can't speak for others but I can assure you that never have I advocated doing what you just said. My point was to temper a little of the expectations. Even he who is often referred to as Clueless has said that to expect too much from a rookie is not fair to him. Let Melky be Melky and not somebody who can never live up to the wild expectations some have for him.
jughead
07-17-06, 03:23 PM
Where the ................ did anybody say to do that? Stop making crap up.I didn't mean to insinuate he said that, but at the same time I never said I expected Melky to become a Hall of Famer. I'm just tired of the notion that a veteran is automatically better than a rookie just because he's played more.
NYDCYankee
07-17-06, 03:24 PM
Let's talk about how Melky Cabrera is playing better than that guy Coco Crisp who was supposed to be better than Johnny Damon.
Coco: AVG .264 | HR 4 | RBI 15 | OBP .322
Melky: AVG .278 | HR 3 | RBI 29 | OBP .360
stephsamps
07-17-06, 03:30 PM
No one is advocating trading Melky for Burnitz...
No, thank god. Javy is just happy on his get rid of Melky bandwagon. BTW, they had a stat on the board at the stadium yesterday that Melky was batting .355 in July. Keep complaining about him Javy, it only seems to make him better!
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 03:32 PM
No, thank god. Javy is just happy on his get rid of Melky bandwagon. BTW, they had a stat on the board at the stadium yesterday that Melky was batting .355 in July. Keep complaining about him Javy, it only seems to make him better!
No doubt about it, he's having a great July, .936 OPS. I will...;)
Spiker101
07-17-06, 03:53 PM
Let's talk about how Melky Cabrera is playing better than that guy Coco Crisp who was supposed to be better than Johnny Damon.
Coco: AVG .264 | HR 4 | RBI 15 | OBP .322
Melky: AVG .278 | HR 3 | RBI 29 | OBP .360
I'm not sure of the relevancy of comparing a corner outfielder with a centerfielder, who's struggling at the plate this year, either because of lingering effects from a hand injury or the pressure of playing at Fenway for the first time or some combination of both.
The issue is whether Melky projects into a corner outfielder for a championship-caliber team, one incidentally that could have trouble over the next few years putting together a top-notch pitching staff. Predicting how a 21-year-old will project in baseball is just about the hardest task there is in sports management, but right now it doesn't appear to me that he'll develop enough power. But that's not to say Melky doesn't have value and should be thrown into any ol' deal that pops up. But if the Yanks find someone who's willing to give up a RFer (say Abreu) who could help the team win for at least 2-3 years into the future, you have to think hard about it.
Oh, Adieu, Monsieur Le Melky! please to visit us again
nyymt62
07-17-06, 04:02 PM
If I'm going to trade Melky it's going to be for somebody that's going to help this team beyond the next two months.
I agree. Burnitz is not going to help this team at anytime. Craig Wilson would be a nice pickup, but I am really quite fond of the enthusiasm Melky brings to the game. Lets let the young guys play and not trade them away. Melky is twenty one, he could be a bust or he could develop into a real good player- give him a chance.
wileedog
07-17-06, 04:05 PM
I agree. Burnitz is not going to help this team at anytime. Craig Wilson would be a nice pickup, but I am really quite fond of the enthusiasm Melky brings to the game. Lets let the young guys play and not trade them away. Melky is twenty one, he could be a bust or he could develop into a real good player- give him a chance.
I would trade him as a centerpiece to get Abreu at this point. I think Abreu would be a great bridge to some of the lower level guys like Tabata.
None of the other proposed deals I have seen look worth it.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-17-06, 04:10 PM
I would trade him as a centerpiece to get Abreu at this point. I think Abreu would be a great bridge to some of the lower level guys like Tabata.
None of the other proposed deals I have seen look worth it.
Without question. Although, I'd rather hold on to Melky so he could plug the hole in LF til we get Matsui or Sheffield back...
yankswn23
07-17-06, 04:13 PM
I hope Melky stays for a long time..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/yankswn23/GOTMELK.jpg
I certainly don't think Melky will ever be a superb corner on a championship caliber team but let's not underestimate his value as what he is/will be worst case; a superb bench player / 4th outfielder type.
If traded to another team I do think Melky would develop to be an everyday player. This is exactly why we should lean on keeping him moving forward (Now don't get me wrong. If someone offers up a better talent who is relatively young at a need position we shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger just because he may be a fan favorite or something).
It is much easier for the Yankees to sign a Gary Sheffield / Bobby Abreu type to play RF than it will be to get someone comparable to Melky to play a role on the bench.
This is why despite our massive payroll we have had a weak bench full of has beens over the past few years.
NYDCYankee
07-17-06, 11:16 PM
I'm not sure of the relevancy of comparing a corner outfielder with a centerfielder, who's struggling at the plate this year, either because of lingering effects from a hand injury or the pressure of playing at Fenway for the first time or some combination of both.
The issue is whether Melky projects into a corner outfielder for a championship-caliber team, one incidentally that could have trouble over the next few years putting together a top-notch pitching staff. Predicting how a 21-year-old will project in baseball is just about the hardest task there is in sports management, but right now it doesn't appear to me that he'll develop enough power. But that's not to say Melky doesn't have value and should be thrown into any ol' deal that pops up. But if the Yanks find someone who's willing to give up a RFer (say Abreu) who could help the team win for at least 2-3 years into the future, you have to think hard about it.
Coco played left last year, and will play left as soon as Manny leaves. And I don't think you should be making excuses for Coco, Melky could have a bunch of excuses as well.
TheMelkMan
07-18-06, 10:11 AM
Wow! I would of never thought Torres had numbers like those.
Neither would I. That's why I put the Torres thing. I apologize. Now that I see he's a good reliever, I will correct myself.
Jeromy Burnitz= :roflmao:
If we could give up a lesser piece or two, like a KT, or B and C prospects for just Wilson and Torres, it might be worth pulling the trigger. Does anyone see a possibility of that?
Wasnt Paulie's swing changed once he made the Red's though? And you have AVG twice, do you mean OBP for the second one?
Yes Pinella fiddled with his swing and he ended up in NY where they allowed him to revert to his origional swing.
shotgun pete
07-18-06, 11:24 AM
i don't think a b or c prospect would net both torres and wilson pittsburg is not that stupid they will be asking for the moon for both players espaically because torres is a pitcher so imo it would take more than melky to get both of them
It is much easier for the Yankees to sign a Gary Sheffield / Bobby Abreu type to play RF than it will be to get someone comparable to Melky to play a role on the bench. This is why despite our massive payroll we have had a weak bench full of has beens over the past few years.
I don't think that's true...I just think the Yankees don't care/try too hard to build a solid bench. I blame this on both the front office and on Torre, who seems to get too much input into who is on the bench. There are guys every year avaialable that I would like to see on the bench, and the Yankees never seem to have any interest.
SINCE77 2
07-18-06, 12:56 PM
I don't think that's true...I just think the Yankees don't care/try too hard to build a solid bench. I blame this on both the front office and on Torre, who seems to get too much input into who is on the bench. There are guys every year avaialable that I would like to see on the bench, and the Yankees never seem to have any interest.
I think the Yankees try to build a solid bench, but no one of real value wants to come here to get only 100AB barring an injury to a starter. Jeter/Arod/Matsui/Cano/Damon and to a large extent Posada play every game in normal non injury years. Giambi and Sheff play slightly less. Would a solid bench guy really want to come here when they could get 300+AB elsewhere?
I think the Yankees try to build a solid bench, but no one of real value wants to come here to get only 100AB barring an injury to a starter. Jeter/Arod/Matsui/Cano/Damon and to a large extent Posada play every game in normal non injury years. Giambi and Sheff play slightly less. Would a solid bench guy really want to come here when they could get 300+AB elsewhere?
The Yankees have had significant outfield and 1B/DH at bats to spread around for awhile now; Cano has been hurt this year and before that, 2B was an open question mark, etc. Other good teams have been able to build a more solid bench through free agency, trade, etc. I honestly think it's an attempt by the Yankees to save money/cut corners/appease Torre etc., and it hurts them every year.
justtxyank
07-18-06, 01:03 PM
The Yankees have had significant outfield and 1B/DH at bats to spread around for awhile now; Cano has been hurt this year and before that, 2B was an open question mark, etc. Other good teams have been able to build a more solid bench through free agency, trade, etc. I honestly think it's an attempt by the Yankees to save money/cut corners/appease Torre etc., and it hurts them every year.
I agree. I complain each offseason that the bench gets no attention. I highly doubt it's a matter of players not wanting to come here. The thing about bench players is that people say things like you don't need good ones because they hardly get playing time, but they ALWAYS get playing time.
Even if it was about playing time you could convince some good bench players to come here by showing them the money.
35Knucklecurve
07-18-06, 01:20 PM
I agree. Burnitz is not going to help this team at anytime. Craig Wilson would be a nice pickup, but I am really quite fond of the enthusiasm Melky brings to the game. Lets let the young guys play and not trade them away. Melky is twenty one, he could be a bust or he could develop into a real good player- give him a chance.
There's a lot to be said for the intangibles like enthusiasm. He goes all out, gives the team some speed and gives the defense something to think about beside the long ball. I don't see how Burnitz could possibly be a good pickup. Wilson, however is someone who would be a good acquisition.
Spiker101
07-18-06, 05:15 PM
Coco played left last year, and will play left as soon as Manny leaves. And I don't think you should be making excuses for Coco, Melky could have a bunch of excuses as well.
Sorry but Crisp doesn't see left until '09 at the earliest. The comparision of Melky and Crisp this season is irrelevant. And I'm not making excuses, I'm merely looking for possible explanations for why Crisp is having a down year, so far.
NYDCYankee
07-18-06, 11:51 PM
Ship the bum out. :)
TEPLimey
07-19-06, 05:39 AM
Ship the bum out. :)
Agreed. He doesn't have enough power for a corner OF. I'd trade him for Burnitz straight up. :D
NYDCYankee
07-19-06, 05:46 AM
Agreed. He doesn't have enough power for a corner OF. I'd trade him for Burnitz straight up. :D
Burnitz? What kind of fantasyland do you live in? The Yankees would be lucky to get Burnitz batting gloves for Melky.
shotgun pete
07-19-06, 06:19 AM
cashman could probably trade melky for todd hollandsworth staight up or maybe even eric byrnes.
Agreed. He doesn't have enough power for a corner OF. I'd trade him for Burnitz straight up. :D
Melky hasn't played enough for anyone to accurately conclude he hasn't enough power. Give him time. Right now he's concentrating on learning to hit ML pitching and doing a damn good job of it. He has enough power to hit last nights game winning, walk off, 11th inning homer. He will get lots better with time.
Remember, many of the fans in this forum were decrying his fielding only a few months ago, now these same people are calling him a future gold glove.
I doubt if few of you really can judge talent.
As for me, I'm for keeping the kid, unless some GM goes insane and offers something we can't refuse. But frankly everyone out there wants more from us than they will give, hoping we are desparate and crazy enough to go for it.
Andy
mycroft
07-19-06, 06:47 AM
It is HIGH It is FAR it is GONE!
Yea, get rid of him ;)
Astorian
07-19-06, 06:54 AM
You just can't win with Melky Cabrera playing a corner OF spot.
TEPLimey
07-19-06, 07:01 AM
Agreed. He doesn't have enough power for a corner OF. I'd trade him for Burnitz straight up. :D
Melky hasn't played enough for anyone to accurately conclude he hasn't enough power. Give him time. Right now he's concentrating on learning to hit ML pitching and doing a damn good job of it. He has enough power to hit last nights game winning, walk off, 11th inning homer. He will get lots better with time.
Remember, many of the fans in this forum were decrying his fielding only a few months ago, now these same people are calling him a future gold glove.
I doubt if few of you really can judge talent.
As for me, I'm for keeping the kid, unless some GM goes insane and offers something we can't refuse. But frankly everyone out there wants more from us than they will give, hoping we are desparate and crazy enough to go for it.
Andy
This new thing we call sarcasm? Yeah, its the new big thing. Look into it.
unfortunately sarcasm translates poorly on the internet
This new thing we call sarcasm? Yeah, its the new big thing. Look into it.
TheScooter
07-19-06, 07:44 AM
Fatso Francesa is back from vacation today.Can't wait to hear him give props to Melky
metalboy15
07-19-06, 07:48 AM
You just can't win with Melky Cabrera playing a corner OF spot.
is this guy for real?
The Q Bomb
07-19-06, 07:53 AM
If you are of the mind that the only players we should hold on to are those with the potential to be another Albert Pujols (God Forbid I should use poor A-Rod as an example) then sure - get rid of Melky.
If you think The Yanks could use a good, young, player who is performing well in his first season and obviously has the talent to be a good to very good major leaguer for years to come, and has enthusiasm, an apparently great personality, and a desire and ability to learn and improve - then Melky is a keeper. Plain and simple.
If you are of the mind that the only players we should hold on to are those with the potential to be another Albert Pujols (God Forbid I should use poor A-Rod as an example) then sure - get rid of Melky.
If you think The Yanks could use a good, young, player who is performing well in his first season and obviously has the talent to be a good to very good major leaguer for years to come, and has enthusiasm, an apparently great personality, and a desire and ability to learn and improve - then Melky is a keeper. Plain and simple.
Pujols is better than every player on the Yankees, so if that's the test, you might as well trade Jeter.
Boricua21
07-19-06, 08:59 AM
If we give up Melky, we are making another blunder that will keep us from getting a ring for another 5 years. He is the type of person that infuses a team with his youthful exuberance and can add so much. To lose him for an older hired gun is stupid. Especially after last night. He's clutch. How many times this season has he gotten a big hit? How do we know others can perform in the Bronx? I'd rather stick to what's working. He's young, inexpensive and has a great attitude. His talent is insane. Keep the kid, and teach him how to play in right field.
got23hops
07-19-06, 09:02 AM
If we give up Melky, we are making another blunder that will keep us from getting a ring for another 5 years. He is the type of person that infuses a team with his youthful exuberance and can add so much. To lose him for an older hired gun is stupid. Especially after last night. He's clutch. How many times this season has he gotten a big hit? How do we know others can perform in the Bronx? I'd rather stick to what's working. He's young, inexpensive and has a great attitude. His talent is insane. Keep the kid, and teach him how to play in right field.
i couldn't agree with you more, we need to get younger, not older. Don't fix it, if it ain't broken. However, I do fear that if an Abreu deal happens, it will be Melky headed to the Phils.
Pujols is better than every player on the Yankees, so if that's the test, you might as well trade Jeter.
Why Jeter? Is he our top gun?
Why Jeter? Is he our top gun?
I forgot to include a /sarcasm in my post.
Bleacher_Creature
07-19-06, 09:47 AM
I think Melky's become pretty close to untouchable as far as Cashman is concerned, and why not, he won last night's game, got a big hit with the bases loaded against Chicago, he got Crede at home on a laser, and robbed Manny of a game tying HR in early June. He seems cool in NY seems cool under pressure and most of all seems cool under pressure in NY. I'm sure if we get offered Willis for Cabrera and change, Cashman would do it, but would he do it for Soriano/Abreu? I hope not.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-19-06, 09:58 AM
Did anyone see when Melky threw his helmet up, Damon ran and caught it and then proceeded to spike it...
effdamets
07-19-06, 10:11 AM
Did anyone see when Melky threw his helmet up, Damon ran and caught it and then proceeded to spike it...
No way....
I didn't see it. Did this really happen?
LeapsNbounds
07-19-06, 10:11 AM
[quote=Bleacher_Creature] Willis for Cabrera and change [quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I love the these little tidbits everyone throws in.
I originally read it as Willis AND Cabrera for change!! That would be crazy!!
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-19-06, 10:13 AM
No way....
I didn't see it. Did this really happen?
Yeah, they showed it on Sportscenter, it was hilarious...
metalboy15
07-19-06, 10:15 AM
Yeah, they showed it on Sportscenter, it was hilarious...
they also showed it in the mlb.com highlight reel...
effdamets
07-19-06, 10:26 AM
they also showed it in the mlb.com highlight reel...
I have to watch.
I love when the grown men from major league baseball clubs, act like they are 10 years old!
HidekiIrabu
07-19-06, 10:29 AM
Yeah, they showed it on Sportscenter, it was hilarious...
Yea I saw it on sportscenter too, after they showed a highlight reel of A-rod commiting errors and striking out.
effdamets
07-19-06, 10:30 AM
I just watched....
Oh...that was great!
I totally envy those guys...
If I'm trading Melky, I want something good, young, and at a reasonable price coming back. Most teams don't trade players like that
bostonyankeefan
07-19-06, 10:49 AM
Did anyone see when Melky threw his helmet up, Damon ran and caught it and then proceeded to spike it...
Classic move by Damon. Damon also made me laugh when he pumped his chest after making a nice play on a high pickoff throw.
Great ending to a great win, particularly when you consider how bad our lineup looked last night.
Trade Melky? I would rather not. If he adds size and power as he gets older, he could end up being a 25-30 HR/80-100 RBI guy for years to come. He is improving in the outfield; he has a strong arm and he has decent speed.
Let's keep Melky. If we want experience power hitters, let's wait for Matsui and Sheff.
Gehrig'sGhost
07-19-06, 10:58 AM
If I'm trading Melky, I want something good, young, and at a reasonable price coming back. Most teams don't trade players like that
Which describes Melky, exactly. So, the only reason to do this is to trade for a similar player at a position where there is greater need. In other words, keep Melky.
ShaneTravis
07-19-06, 12:04 PM
Yeah, they showed it on Sportscenter, it was hilarious...
I can't find it. I missed it.
If anyone has a picture of Damon spiking Melk's helmet or a link. Thanks in advance.
Maynerd
07-19-06, 12:15 PM
What's everybody so excited about? He only went 1-for-5 last night, and didn't get a ball out of the infield until we were in extra innings.
Oh. Sorry. Never mind.
VerMonsteR
07-19-06, 12:18 PM
... I want something good, young, and at a reasonable price
Try St. Catherine's Street in Montreal! :D
The Q Bomb
07-19-06, 04:29 PM
Pujols is better than every player on the Yankees, so if that's the test, you might as well trade Jeter.
That was my point, Rich. It seems that some Yankee fans want to trade anyone who is not Pujols caliber. If that's the case we would have a team of ......hmmmm.... NO ONE!
The Q Bomb
07-19-06, 04:30 PM
Which describes Melky, exactly. So, the only reason to do this is to trade for a similar player at a position where there is greater need. In other words, keep Melky. Good point! You sound like a lawyer!
The Q Bomb
07-19-06, 04:32 PM
[quote=Bleacher_Creature] Willis for Cabrera and change [quote]
I originally read it as Willis AND Cabrera for change!! That would be crazy!!
Now, that trade I might consider!
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Before yesterday’s game, Torre acknowledged that he would prefer a more experienced left fielder than Melky Cabrera, and during the game, he could have used a left fielder with a slightly more accurate arm.
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
THAT is one scary quote.
ericns1
07-19-06, 09:21 PM
When Melky came home last night you saw how much he enjoys thegame - he brings a joy and clutch htis to the team - keep him!!
cmaff05
07-19-06, 09:23 PM
That is a stupid article.. somebody probably took that out of context and there isn't even a quote there from Torre about him wanting a more experienced left fielder.
I think it's just crappy journalism. Just me, though.
That is a stupid article.. somebody probably took that out of context and there isn't even a quote there from Torre about him wanting a more experienced left fielder.
I think it's just crappy journalism. Just me, though.
Sweeny Murti characterized Torre's comments in exactly the same way on WFAN today.
FromPagstoRiches
07-19-06, 09:27 PM
I like the deal, primarily because Burnitz and/or Wilson could easily spun off to land Schmidt, who needs to be in pinstripes. You do the deal, then trade Burnitz, cash and either a mid-level prospect or Proctor for Schmidt. That would get it done.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-19-06, 09:28 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
:lol: Oh Joe.
I like the deal, primarily because Burnitz and/or Wilson could easily spun off to land Schmidt, who needs to be in pinstripes. You do the deal, then trade Burnitz, cash and either a mid-level prospect or Proctor for Schmidt. That would get it done.
You have to be kidding. You aren't getting Jason Schmidt for nothing, which is what you would be offering.
brosiusbuddy
07-19-06, 09:39 PM
You have to be kidding. You aren't getting Jason Schmidt for nothing, which is what you would be offering.
I think the idea of any trade just excites some fans and causes them to think a little bit foggy. BTW, nice avatar. I was going to do the same thing but for some reason I am unable to part with the av i have now.
I think the idea of any trade just excites some fans and causes them to think a little bit foggy. BTW, nice avatar. I was going to do the same thing but for some reason I am unable to part with the av i have now.
Thanks.
I see what you mean...
yanksphan
07-19-06, 09:54 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
eh...I wonder about the context there though.
Since there is no quote, seems more like a reporter twisting words to help support his story. I can't see Joe throwing Melky under the bus like the reporter is suggesting.
EDIT: just saw your post regarding Murti....very odd.
eh...I wonder about the context there though.
Since there is no quote, seems more like a reporter twisting words to help support his story. I can't see Joe throwing Melky under the bus like the reporter is suggesting.
As I said in an earlier post, Sweeny Murti said virtually the same thing on WFAN today.
goin for 27
07-19-06, 09:56 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
I gotta believe that this is out of context. Unlike Joe to ding a player like that.
By the way, Matsui is MUCH more seasoned, he's not throwing out half the runners that Cabrera does.
I can't find it. I missed it.
If anyone has a picture of Damon spiking Melk's helmet or a link. Thanks in advance.
http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/71806MelkyWORunningDamon1.JPG http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/71806MelkyWORunningDamon2.JPG
http://users.erols.com/kcoblenz/71806MelkyWORunningDamon3.JPG
I love Johnny! :)
And Melky ... :o
FromPagstoRiches
07-19-06, 10:29 PM
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known. He's going to be a good 3rd/4th OF, but that might be it. I like him, but let's not overrate or overvaulue him. If you can get good MLB talent for him you pull the trigger. In 5 years, even if Melky surprises us all and transforms into a force, we can always buy his superior.
Shefnation
07-19-06, 10:30 PM
:lol: Oh Joe.
Pretty unbelievable considering Melky has 8 OF assists in 60 games which is more than any other Yankee (Damon is 2nd with 2!!). In fact, it's more than Shef, Damon, Matsui, or Bernie had over all of last season!!! If anything, Melky's defense has bailed us out of a few games...
cmaff05
07-19-06, 10:31 PM
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known. He's going to be a good 3rd/4th OF, but that might be it. I like him, but let's not overrate or overvaulue him. If you can get good MLB talent for him you pull the trigger. In 5 years, even if Melky surprises us all and transforms into a force, we can always buy his superior.
But why would we trade him for Craig Wilson and Jeremy Burnitz? We are already in the playoff hunt, these guys are just rent-a-players and once we get Sheffield and Matsui back they are essentially getting paid millions to sit on a bench.
FromPagstoRiches
07-19-06, 10:33 PM
But why would we trade him for Craig Wilson and Jeremy Burnitz? We are already in the playoff hunt, these guys are just rent-a-players and once we get Sheffield and Matsui back they are essentially getting paid millions to sit on a bench.
because by the time they get back it may be too late.
JeffWeaverFan
07-19-06, 10:40 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
Torre's a fool. What about the arm in RF??? And the .320 OBP out there? If we get another outfielder, it better not affect Melky's playing time, rather Bernie's and Phillips'.
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known. He's going to be a good 3rd/4th OF, but that might be it. I like him, but let's not overrate or overvaulue him. If you can get good MLB talent for him you pull the trigger. In 5 years, even if Melky surprises us all and transforms into a force, we can always buy his superior.
& in the meantime, what sense does it make to trade a 21 year old kid w/promise for an old, washed up vet like Burnitz & a barely mediocre 30 year old utility guy like Craig Wilson? Even if Melky's ceiling was limited to being a 3rd/4th OFer like you say, it still wouldn't make much sense to make this deal (Though I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion about the kid when he hasn't even played a full season yet)
cmaff05
07-19-06, 10:43 PM
because by the time they get back it may be too late.
The Yankees are one and a half games behind the Red Sox. They've shown they can keep up with the Red Sox even with their Columbus Clipper lineup. And over the next few days, the Red Sox are sending Kyle Synder, Jason Johnson, Jon Lester (of the 1.42 WHIP) and Gason Kabbard to the mound. Relax.
brosiusbuddy
07-19-06, 10:46 PM
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known. He's going to be a good 3rd/4th OF, but that might be it. I like him, but let's not overrate or overvaulue him. If you can get good MLB talent for him you pull the trigger. In 5 years, even if Melky surprises us all and transforms into a force, we can always buy his superior.
No offense, but who are you to say he has a ceiling? And really, this is nothing personal against you, but why would you make such a comment when we've seen him play some great ball and also heard great things from scouts and minor league coaches, some of whom feel that Melky could develop into the type of hitter that could win a batting title?
I think that the only down part of Melky's game, if you can say that it is one, is he's not going to develop into a guy who hits 30 or 40 homers and unfortunately that flaws many fans perception of him.
He has shown good patience at the plate, he can make good contact, he has good speed, he'll likely develop into a very good baserunner, he has a very strong arm, he tracks balls well and all of this at only the age of 21. To give him a ceiling now is just way too premature. Plus, he has also shown that once he is comfortable, he doesn't get intimidated by big situations. I love the kids approach and attitude and I think that he is going to surprise a lot fans with the type of player he'll become.
brosiusbuddy
07-19-06, 10:48 PM
because by the time they get back it may be too late.
the only way it'd be too late is if torre puts burnitz in the OF in place of melky because burnitz is terrible and you make your team worse by having him on the field over a guy like cabrera
JeffWeaverFan
07-19-06, 10:48 PM
& in the meantime, what sense does it make to trade a 21 year old kid w/promise for an old, washed up vet like Burnitz & a barely mediocre 30 year old utility guy like Craig Wilson? Even if Melky's ceiling was limited to being a 3rd/4th OFer like you say, it still wouldn't make much sense to make this deal (Though I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion about the kid when he hasn't even played a full season yet)
I like Craig Wilson but Burnitz is garbage. The main problem with trading Melky for Craig Wilson (for this year, not going into the problems with it in the future just yet) is you aren't replacing the biggest problem in our OF. The biggest problem is Bernie playing RF. Melky has been great in LF for us - better than anyone here expected he would do. But it's Bernie and his .320 OBP that is hurting the offense. So, if we get another outfielder, it won't help the team all that much if we aren't replacing the worst outfielder on the team.
In the long run, it also hurts us. Melky has proved he can be a productive LFer. He doesn't have the pop you would want in a corner outfielder, but he gets on base at a pretty good clip, works the pitcher, and should hit about 11 HR's during the course of a season. And, he's only 21 years old and will develop more power. I could easily see him being a .380 OBP guy that hits 15-20 HR's during the course of the season in a few years. So we will be getting a good player for a minimal amount of money and we can use that money elsewhere.
The Comic Book Guy
07-19-06, 10:55 PM
because by the time they get back it may be too late.
Considering how well the team's played fine since those two went down, I wouldn't be too concerned. Certainly not concerned to the point where I'd trade Melky for Wilson and Burnitz.
I still think Melky could develop into a Jose Vidro-type hitter. I know, I know, that kind of production is great for a 2B but mediocre for a corner OFer, but as long as he plays good D and we get good production from other places, that would be fine. The Yanks won a lot of games with guys like Chad Curtis in LF.
What the hell does Torre expect from Melky? First it was criticizing him for not robbing someone of a homerun and now this???
Quangormo
07-20-06, 12:09 AM
What about this guy, since he seems to be on the market?
http://feeds.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5796782
The Astros want to deepen their bullpen, preferably with a left-hander. The Pirates' Damaso Marte is one possibility, but he continues to puzzle rival scouts and executives. "I saw him three times, and he was horrible," says a scout from another interested club. "He has great stuff, as good as any left-hander in the game. Put him and (teammate) Mike Gonzalez next to each other, and they're the same guy. But the results are completely different."
And I believe he started in the Yankee organization. You know how George LOVES ex-Yankees.
BRNXBMRS
07-20-06, 07:55 AM
What about this guy, since he seems to be on the market?
http://feeds.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5796782
And I believe he started in the Yankee organization. You know how George LOVES ex-Yankees.
June 13, 2001: Traded by the New York Yankees (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2001.shtml) to the Pittsburgh Pirates (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PIT/2001.shtml) for Enrique Wilson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wilsoen01.shtml)
Matsui-San
07-20-06, 08:02 AM
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known.
Can a 21-year-old's ceiling ever really be accurately assessed?
YankeePride1967
07-20-06, 08:31 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
Joe is probably rueing the day Cash released Terence Long and his bellyful of guts.
YankeePride1967
07-20-06, 08:33 AM
Folks, honestly, Melky has a ceiling, and it is known. He's going to be a good 3rd/4th OF, but that might be it. I like him, but let's not overrate or overvaulue him. If you can get good MLB talent for him you pull the trigger. In 5 years, even if Melky surprises us all and transforms into a force, we can always buy his superior.
Not for Jeremy Burnitz who stinks and Craig Wilson who wouldn't even come close to landing Mike Schmidt of 2006 much less Jason Schmidt.
flymick24
07-20-06, 09:14 AM
What about this guy, since he seems to be on the market?
http://feeds.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5796782
And I believe he started in the Yankee organization. You know how George LOVES ex-Yankees.
the funny thing is that he was traded for enrique wilson
anyhow, i don't think bullpen help is much of an issue right now, especially from the left-side. villone and myers are doing more than an adequate job, and there's always matt smith waiting in the wings. generally speaking, the rest of the guys are doing well, and dotel will only help (beam also is waiting in the wings.)
Yankees1962
07-20-06, 09:34 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/sports/baseball/20ichiro.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Are you ................ing kidding me?
Melky has saved the Yankees' butts. He is a better corner OFer, offense/defense, than Bernie or Bubba.
Torre is the one who should be replaced, not Melky.
Torre said he wanted a more experience outfielder so to relieve any playoff pressure from Melky according to Murti. I don't agree with him! Also, the way that the following sentence is written, I don't think that was Torre dissing Cabrera's arm, it was the writer's thoughts about the accuracy in which I don't agree with him either.
Before yesterday’s game, Torre acknowledged that he would prefer a more experienced left fielder than Melky Cabrera, and during the game, he could have used a left fielder with a slightly more accurate arm.
Can a 21-year-old's ceiling ever really be accurately assessed?
Of course it can. You can look at Cabrera and assess his ceiling as such- he doesn't have the body or raw power to expect 30 HR power. He likely tops out anywhere from the mid teen to the mid 20's, more likely in the low to mid 20's as a high.
He has the ability to hit for a high average, have a high OBP, and be an above average fielder. I don't think he will be a fantastic fielder, as he lacks some foot speed. He can certainly improve on the consistency with his arm- he has the ability to throw rockets to gun guys down, and then airmails or misses the target my 50 feet on the next throw.
So.....I think you can accurately describe his ceiling as Paul O'neill. I am by no means saying he will be Paul O'neill (extremely likely he will NOT), but that is his ceiling- high average, decent but not great power, slightly above average speed and baserunner, good OF with a strong arm.
Yankees1962
07-20-06, 09:40 AM
What the hell does Torre expect from Melky? First it was criticizing him for not robbing someone of a homerun and now this???
Again, I don't think that was Torre criticizing the throw, but the writer expressing his thoughts about the throw.
jughead
07-20-06, 09:45 AM
Of course it can. You can look at Cabrera and assess his ceiling as such- he doesn't have the body or raw power to expect 30 HR power. He likely tops out anywhere from the mid teen to the mid 20's, more likely in the low to mid 20's as a high.
He has the ability to hit for a high average, have a high OBP, and be an above average fielder. I don't think he will be a fantastic fielder, as he lacks some foot speed. He can certainly improve on the consistency with his arm- he has the ability to throw rockets to gun guys down, and then airmails or misses the target my 50 feet on the next throw.
So.....I think you can accurately describe his ceiling as Paul O'neill. I am by no means saying he will be Paul O'neill (extremely likely he will NOT), but that is his ceiling- high average, decent but not great power, slightly above average speed and baserunner, good OF with a strong arm.I agree with this assessment
Quangormo
07-20-06, 09:49 AM
the funny thing is that he was traded for enrique wilson
anyhow, i don't think bullpen help is much of an issue right now, especially from the left-side. villone and myers are doing more than an adequate job, and there's always matt smith waiting in the wings. generally speaking, the rest of the guys are doing well, and dotel will only help (beam also is waiting in the wings.)Well, people ar ethrowing Burnitz's name around and Robertor Hernandez's name, so I wondered if Marte (the ex-Yankee) might be a better option than those guys to be the second player in the deal. A dominant bullpen is important, especially in the postseason.
Of course it can. You can look at Cabrera and assess his ceiling as such- he doesn't have the body or raw power to expect 30 HR power. He likely tops out anywhere from the mid teen to the mid 20's, more likely in the low to mid 20's as a high.
He has the ability to hit for a high average, have a high OBP, and be an above average fielder. I don't think he will be a fantastic fielder, as he lacks some foot speed. He can certainly improve on the consistency with his arm- he has the ability to throw rockets to gun guys down, and then airmails or misses the target my 50 feet on the next throw.
So.....I think you can accurately describe his ceiling as Paul O'neill. I am by no means saying he will be Paul O'neill (extremely likely he will NOT), but that is his ceiling- high average, decent but not great power, slightly above average speed and baserunner, good OF with a strong arm.
Paul O'Neill on the absolutely high side -- but more likely a Juan Rivera-type, IMHO.
Paul O'Neill on the absolutely high side -- but more likely a Juan Rivera-type, IMHO.
I agree that O'neill is the absolute high......but I also think he's likely to be a better and different player than Rivera. Think Rusty Greer.
I agree that O'neill is the absolute high......but I also think he's likely to be a better and different player than Rivera. Think Rusty Greer.
That is a pretty good ballplayer -- a lot more pop and run production than we are currently seeing from Melky. You really think Melky has a .900+ OPS in his future?
That is a pretty good ballplayer -- a lot more pop and run production than we are currently seeing from Melky. You really think Melky has a .900+ OPS in his future?
Well....I think he will be a .300+ hitter. I think you'll see 65-75 walks, 40 2B, and maybe average 15-20 hr a year. Which is a pretty darn good and consistent ballplayer. Never great, and probably not often an All-Star. But a very solid player.
justtxyank
07-20-06, 10:03 AM
Well....I think he will be a .300+ hitter. I think you'll see 65-75 walks, 40 2B, and maybe average 15-20 hr a year. Which is a pretty darn good and consistent ballplayer. Never great, and probably not often an All-Star. But a very solid player.
Phew!
If he emerges as a 40 double 15+hr guy I'll be thrilled!
Well....I think he will be a .300+ hitter. I think you'll see 65-75 walks, 40 2B, and maybe average 15-20 hr a year. Which is a pretty darn good and consistent ballplayer. Never great, and probably not often an All-Star. But a very solid player.
Add a cannon of an arm to those kinds of numbers and you just might see an All-Star game or two from him. You are right, those are very Paul O'Neill-ish numbers.
Or at least Paul O'Neill-lite.
bostonyankeefan
07-20-06, 10:09 AM
Well....I think he will be a .300+ hitter. I think you'll see 65-75 walks, 40 2B, and maybe average 15-20 hr a year. Which is a pretty darn good and consistent ballplayer. Never great, and probably not often an All-Star. But a very solid player.
If you figure that we will have A-Rod, Cano, Jeter, Giambi, Matsui and Damon for the next few if not several years, I think that we have a sufficient number of stars. The rest of the team should be guys just like Melky, not great, but very solid. The All-star at every position mentality is flawed. Please keep Melky.
Add a cannon of an arm to those kinds of numbers and you just might see an All-Star game or two from him. You are right, those are very Paul O'Neill-ish numbers.
Or at least Paul O'Neill-lite.
He's a 21-year old who has conquered AAA and shown he can make adjustments at the major league level already. He has good gap power already, even to the opposite field. He is patient in his at bats, working pitchers quite well. He hasn't quite gotten his walks yet, but the ability to wait for his pitch and hit well with two strikes bodes well for his advancement in that regard.
He has a decent way to go to reach that player- but even if he slowly improves for the next three years he will still be a very young ballplayer in the league. I REALLY hope they don't move him- because he will never be a monster salary guy, but could always be a very good player.
freebubba
07-20-06, 10:13 AM
The only reason Melky should be going anywhere is if there is twenty something, established MLB pitcher with ace potential on his way to NY. No way should he be going anywhere for an average to above average corner outfielder.
justinvarnes
07-20-06, 10:16 AM
Well....I think he will be a .300+ hitter. I think you'll see 65-75 walks, 40 2B, and maybe average 15-20 hr a year. Which is a pretty darn good and consistent ballplayer. Never great, and probably not often an All-Star. But a very solid player.
I think if Melky continues to progress, and turns into a 300+ hitter with a .400 OBP and 15 -20 HR's, he will be a good fit for this team. He should be an above average defender (but not GREAT) and an above average bat. He's VERY young - about to turn 22 - and could hit 6th or 7th in this lineup and play RF for years to come. He could even hit leadoff if he focused on his walks more.
for the next few years:
Damon CF LH
Jeter SS RH
Giambi DH LH
Arod 3B RH
Matsui LF LH
Posada C S
Cano 2B LH
Melky LF S
Phillips 1B RH
That's not a bad starting 9.
Defense: Phillips, Damon, Cano, Arod (assuming he gets over the yips) and Melky are good defenders. Jeter is average, Posada is average and Matsui is a little below average.
Offense: the top 5 are probably the best in the game, then you have .400 OBP Posada behind them, followed by 300+ hitters in Cano and Melky, and a .280 20 HR guy in Phillips at the bottom.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure we need any more offense ASSUMING Matsui comes back 100%
Tack on a productive Sheff at DH, and Phillips as RH PH, Defensive replacement, and 2007 starts to look good.
Then the Yanks only have to worry about replacing Posada after next year, then Giambi and Damon a few years after that. The rest of the team is young (21-32) and should be solid for the next 5 years or so.
I think if Melky continues to progress, and turns into a 300+ hitter with a .400 OBP and 15 -20 HR's, he will be a good fit for this team. He should be an above average defender (but not GREAT) and an above average bat. He's VERY young - about to turn 22 - and could hit 6th or 7th in this lineup and play RF for years to come. He could even hit leadoff if he focused on his walks more.
for the next few years:
Damon CF LH
Jeter SS RH
Giambi DH LH
Arod 3B RH
Matsui LF LH
Posada C S
Cano 2B LH
Melky LF LH
Phillips 1B RH
That's not a bad starting 9.
Defense: Phillips, Damon, Cano, Arod (assuming he gets over the yips) and Melky are good defenders. Jeter is average, Posada is average and Matsui is a little below average.
Offense: the top 5 are probably the best in the game, then you have .400 OBP Posada behind them, followed by 300+ hitters in Cano and Melky, and a .280 20 HR guy in Phillips at the bottom.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure we need any more offense ASSUMING Matsui comes back 100%
Tack on a productive Sheff at DH, and Phillips as RH PH, Defensive replacement, and 2007 starts to look good.
Then the Yanks only have to worry about replacing Posada after next year, then Giambi and Damon a few years after that. The rest of the team is young (21-32) and should be solid for the next 5 years or so.
Yeah.....I actually think he could be an ideal #2. Good average, switch hitter, decently high OBP.
Quangormo
07-20-06, 10:40 AM
I read that the Yankees were inquiring about Jack Wilson.
Good player, but why? Isn't he a SS?
Still, if we could figure out what to do with him, Wilson and Wilson or either and Marte could be a package worth parting with some talent. Not Melky necessarily, but talent.
freebubba
07-20-06, 10:42 AM
I read that the Yankees were inquiring about Jack Wilson.
Good player, but why? Isn't he a SS?
Still, if we could figure out what to do with him, Wilson and Wilson or either and Marte could be a package worth parting with some talent. Not Melky necessarily, but talent.
I think you are talking about Craig Wilson, 1B/OF.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:14 AM
I think if Melky continues to progress, and turns into a 300+ hitter with a .400 OBP and 15 -20 HR's, he will be a good fit for this team. He should be an above average defender (but not GREAT) and an above average bat. He's VERY young - about to turn 22 - and could hit 6th or 7th in this lineup and play RF for years to come. He could even hit leadoff if he focused on his walks more.
Do you realize how much you are asking for Melky to progress? He has never shown that kind of power or patience at the plate his entire minor league career. I guess it's possible but he should be doing this in AAA not on a ML level....
Do you realize how much you are asking for Melky to progress? He has never shown that kind of power or patience at the plate his entire minor league career. I guess it's possible but he should be doing this in AAA not on a ML level....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he batting in the .370's in AAA this year before he was called up to the bigs?
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:20 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he batting in the .370's in AAA this year before he was called up to the bigs?
Yes, in an extremely small sample size, like 9 or 10 games...
Yankeeah
07-20-06, 11:23 AM
Yes, in an extremely small sample size, like 9 or 10 games...
or 31....
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Melky%20Cabrera&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=466320
Yes, in an extremely small sample size, like 9 or 10 games...
Maybe it's time for you to get your facts straight. Melky played 57 games in AAA in which he has a BA of .323 with 7 HR's & 41 RBI's. That projects out to be very respectable from both a contact hitting & power hitting standpoint.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:30 AM
Maybe it's time for you to get your facts straight. Melky played 57 games in AAA in which he has a BA of .323 with 7 HR's & 41 RBI's. That projects out to be very respectable from both a contact hitting & power hitting standpoint.
:lol: Didn't you just say he was batting .370? No, but maybe you should.
31 games..385 BA, with 4 HRs & 24 RBIs
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Melky%20Cabrera&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=466320
I also recommend you take a look at his entire minor leagyue career:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Melky-Cabrera.shtml
Yankeeah
07-20-06, 11:32 AM
:lol: Didn't you just say he was batting .370? No, but maybe you should.
31 games..385 BA, with 4 HRs & 24 RBIs
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Melky%20Cabrera&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=466320
I also recommend you take a look at his entire minor leagyue career:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Melky-Cabrera.shtml
Thanks for getting your information completly wrong and stealing my link.
:lol: Didn't you just say he was batting .370? No, but maybe you should.
31 games..385 BA, with 4 HRs & 24 RBIs
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Melky%20Cabrera&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=466320
I also recommend you take a look at his entire minor leagyue career:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Melky-Cabrera.shtml
http://www.yankeesprospects.com/player.php?id=20&pos=200
Notice section that points out his career AAA stats. Thanks for trying though.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:35 AM
Thanks for getting your information completly wrong and stealing my link.
I was writing my post when you were writing yours. So relax chief...
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:37 AM
http://www.yankeesprospects.com/player.php?id=20&pos=200
Notice section that points out his career AAA stats. Thanks for trying though.
Do you think it's wise to judge a players minor league career only on 1 level with less than 60 games played in total?
Do you think it's wise to judge a players minor league career only on 1 level with less than 60 games played in total?
Dude, you're the one going off about how this guy needs to show he can hit on the AAA level before we judge his ceiling at the major league level. I'm just pointing out to you that he's already proven he can hit on the AAA level, so I don't get where you get these statements from. Seems like you're just reaching at straws to prove a baseless assumption of your own to me.
Yankeeah
07-20-06, 11:39 AM
I was writing my post when you were writing yours. So relax chief...
It sure took you a very long time to write that post then....
Don't take a guess with your information, be dead wrong, and then laugh when someone has theirs wrong.
btw, Javy Vazquez stinks. You might wanna change your screenname. ;)
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:43 AM
Dude, you're the one going off about how this guy needs to show he can hit on the AAA level before we judge his ceiling at the major league level. I'm just pointing out to you that he's already proven he can hit on the AAA level, so I don't get where you get these statements from. Seems like you're just reaching at straws to prove a baseless assumption of your own to me.
No, I stated that he should be in AAA developing, not developing on a ML level. I never stated Melky can't hit AAA pitching. His current lines in the majors rank him with the worst offensively for LFers in baseball...
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:44 AM
It sure took you a very long time to write that post then....
Don't take a guess with your information, be dead wrong, and then laugh when someone has theirs wrong.
It was still a small sample size, I apologize for getting the numbers of games wrong. I laughed because he first told me I should get my facts straight when his were wrong as well...
ICEBERG18
07-20-06, 11:50 AM
I laughed because he first told me I should get my facts straight when his were wrong as well...
Actually his facts weren't wrong. He asked wasn't Melky hitting in the 370's in AAA before he was called up to the bigs this year. He was hitting .385
Then he gave you Melky's career stats in AAA which included last year and this year.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-20-06, 11:54 AM
Actually his facts weren't wrong. He asked wasn't Melky hitting in the 370's in AAA before he was called up to the bigs this year. He was hitting .385
Then he gave you Melky's career stats in AAA which included last year and this year.
We weren't discussing his career in AAA at that point, we were discussing what he did before he was called up...
That is a pretty good ballplayer -- a lot more pop and run production than we are currently seeing from Melky. You really think Melky has a .900+ OPS in his future?
I agree with that. Greer had more pop in his bat. I don't think Melky will ever have that kind of power. I still like him and I like his arm. I hope he remains a Yankee.
brosiusbuddy
07-20-06, 03:41 PM
Paul O'Neill on the absolutely high side -- but more likely a Juan Rivera-type, IMHO.
Cabrera will be better than Juan Rivera.
boo_427
07-26-06, 01:22 PM
From Sportsline:
News: The Beaver County Times reports the Pirates offered to send Roberto Hernandez and Jeromy Burnitz to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera, but were turned down.
Bern baby Bern!
07-26-06, 01:34 PM
From Sportsline:
Wow that is awesome news - I would never give up Melky right now. Look at the numbers he is putting up in his first year. I think he is like top 5 in avg and runs maybe unless im totally mistaken but he is only going to get better especially in yankee stadium with the short porch and he starts hitting with more power.
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-26-06, 01:34 PM
From Sportsline:
:lol: What a surprise...
Steph19
07-26-06, 01:37 PM
I'd be willing to deal Melky, but for Hernandez and Burnitz? Ugh. Good job, Cash.
boo_427
07-26-06, 01:39 PM
:lol: What a surprise...
Sarcasm?
Or is that your Vazquez talent radar? ;)
Bern baby Bern!
07-26-06, 01:41 PM
what do you guys think about zito, dontrelle, or Maddux? you think we stand a shot to get any of them? nevermind - dont think either team will trade these guys
JavyVazquezIsSick
07-26-06, 01:43 PM
Sarcasm?
Or is that your Vazquez talent radar? ;)
Sarcasm. That proposal is a joke. I'm not Melky's biggest fan but we can do better than that,,,
Bleacher_Creature
07-26-06, 03:14 PM
Of course it can. You can look at Cabrera and assess his ceiling as such- he doesn't have the body or raw power to expect 30 HR power. He likely tops out anywhere from the mid teen to the mid 20's, more likely in the low to mid 20's as a high.
He has the ability to hit for a high average, have a high OBP, and be an above average fielder. I don't think he will be a fantastic fielder, as he lacks some foot speed. He can certainly improve on the consistency with his arm- he has the ability to throw rockets to gun guys down, and then airmails or misses the target my 50 feet on the next throw.
So.....I think you can accurately describe his ceiling as Paul O'neill. I am by no means saying he will be Paul O'neill (extremely likely he will NOT), but that is his ceiling- high average, decent but not great power, slightly above average speed and baserunner, good OF with a strong arm.
Actually it sounds like Bernie, here's a guy who made the best of the talent he has, he doesn't have the greatest arm, no instincts on the bases, never was a 30-40 HR guy, what has he accomplished? 5 all-star apperances, 4 GGs, 4 rings, ALCS MVP, batting title, his number will be retired, he'll get a plaque at monument park, all this and he only got 30 HRs once, in 2000. Bernie is my favorite player, but I think Melky will be better than Bernie when it's all said and done, one day he'll have a plaque and his number retired (if he stays in NY).
And since when did 30-40 HRs guarantee a championship? As a matter of fact, no one on the 1996 Yankee team hit more than 29 HRs (Bernie), Tino had 25. 30-40 HRs is good for fantasy baseball, but that doesn't make a player, Melky has better instincts on the bases then Bernie & has a better arm. As a matter of fact in his first few yrs (1991 - 1995) Bernie had 50 Hrs, from 1996 - 2005 he hit 225. It may take a few years for the power to set in so give it time, he's no HOF but I think his number will be retired if he keeps this up.....of course there's the Shane Spencer, Matt Nokes, Ricky Ledee syndrome, which hopefully Melky avoids!:) :) :)
YankeeStripes
07-26-06, 03:41 PM
I'd do Cabrera and some low prospects for Soriano
PittsburghYankeeFan
07-26-06, 07:10 PM
I'd do Cabrera and some low prospects for Soriano
Why? When Soriano starts moaning about $15 million per and wanting to play 2B in November, you're screwed, and you've lost a decent young player.
Melky's slugging 500 in July. Maybe he's been hot or maybe he's improving? Let's find out unless something good along.
NYDCYankee
07-26-06, 10:59 PM
I'd be willing to deal Melky, but for Hernandez and Burnitz? Ugh. Good job, Cash.
You have to be willing to trade anyone if it makes the team better.
This move clearly would not.
FromPagstoRiches
07-27-06, 09:55 AM
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
Kulish29
07-27-06, 09:58 AM
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
If we were playing MVP 2005 with fair trades turned off, maybe.
brosiusbuddy
07-27-06, 09:59 AM
Time to get Zito. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean.
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
That's absurd. You should do a little homework before you proclaim something like that. Oakland is reportedly asking the Mets for Milledge, Pelfrey and/or Bannister/Maine for 3 months of Zito.
The A's are right in the mix for the AL West and they won't hand over their current ace for an outfielder they don't need and some aging spare parts.
Furthermore, Melky is a key part of our outfield until September, Proctor is a mediocre 29 year old righty and Escalona is a career minor leaguer wallowing in AA.
boo_427
07-27-06, 10:03 AM
I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean.
Zito can mentally handled New York?
In Mo I Trust
07-27-06, 10:04 AM
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
:lol: Good one.
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
I'd rather use that package to get Pujols... no thanks. :drool:
justtxyank
07-27-06, 10:13 AM
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
Sheesh. If we are going to sell the farm, can't we aim a little higher than Zito? Santana is having a nice season.
extend melky's offensive stats out to a full season, throw in his outfield defense and you could see those stats on a rookie of the year winner in certain years. If I were the GM: this kid is not for trading, unless i'm blown away by an offer. But to throw away to fill a hole.... no way.
FromPagstoRiches
07-27-06, 10:36 AM
I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean.
he's mature enough, after a few years in the league, to recognize that being a Yankee has extra meaning. I think he has earned the right to wear stripes. Sure Oakland is still in it, but I'm sure Billy Beane is answering his phone. With that in mind, Cash needs to make the call.
ICEBERG18
07-27-06, 10:48 AM
he's mature enough, after a few years in the league, to recognize that being a Yankee has extra meaning. I think he has earned the right to wear stripes. Sure Oakland is still in it, but I'm sure Billy Beane is answering his phone. With that in mind, Cash needs to make the call.
Huh? :dunno:
justtxyank
07-27-06, 10:53 AM
he's mature enough, after a few years in the league, to recognize that being a Yankee has extra meaning. I think he has earned the right to wear stripes. Sure Oakland is still in it, but I'm sure Billy Beane is answering his phone. With that in mind, Cash needs to make the call.
Is it taboo to say LOL on this forum?
In any case, I really did. :P
ICEBERG18
07-27-06, 07:30 PM
One Major League executive said that the Yankees have expressed interest in Pittsburgh's Roberto Hernandez and Craig Wilson, and that the Pirates continue to show interest in Steven White, a 6-foot-5 right-hander. White went 4-1 with a 2.11 ERA in 11 starts for Double-A Trenton this season before being promoted to Triple-A Columbus, where he is 2-5 with a 4.86 ERA in nine starts.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)
ryanm1058123
07-27-06, 07:34 PM
I just MIGHT think about doing that trade.
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-27-06, 07:37 PM
I just MIGHT think about doing that trade.
That trade is a steal for us, but id like to see if we can then flip Hernandez to somebody else his whip is 1.64 in the NAAAAtional league
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
Instead of giving up Melky how bout we trade them Jeter's fist pump for Zito? Or you think that's too much?
From Sportsline:
Melky in July:
<table class="dbd" border="4"><tbody><tr><td class="number">.330</td><td class="number">.379</td><td class="number">.500</td> <td class="number">.879</td></tr></tbody></table>
That's why.
Time to get Zito. Mechanically, he's been as sound as he's ever been. And I think he's finally mature enough to earn his stripes.
Melky, Proctor and Escalona for Zito is more than enough to get it done.
I'm not giving up Escalona!
Panamaniac42
07-27-06, 07:48 PM
If we were playing MVP 2005 with fair trades turned off, maybe.
:lol:
longtimeyankeefan
07-27-06, 08:03 PM
I just MIGHT think about doing that trade.
Exactly what trade are you thinking about - Wilson & Hernandez for White?
Just asking, because I don't understand your comment/thoughts
NYDCYankee
07-28-06, 03:37 AM
Exactly what trade are you thinking about - Wilson & Hernandez for White?
Just asking, because I don't understand your comment/thoughts
Just might happen.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/438770p-369643c.html
Recently, however, the Pirates have shown some interest in righthander Steven White, who is 2-5 with a 4.86ERA in nine starts for Triple-A Columbus. White, according to sources, is considered by many to be among the best pitching prospects the Yanks are willing to part with and Wilson could provide depth (he plays first base and the outfield); the Bombers wouldn't be averse to taking on reliever Roberto Hernandez, too.
Yankees1962
07-28-06, 04:00 AM
Cashman quickly debunked the theory that the Bombers' recent surge - they've won four in a row to move into first place in the wild-card standings and 1-1/2games back of Boston in the AL East - makes him feel more comfortable about standing pat at the deadline. Although the Yanks expect Hideki Matsui and Gary Sheffield to return from wrist injuries in the next 4-6weeks, Cashman said he approaches his team as if he can't count on that taking place.
"I'm not interested in treading water; we're interested in winning every day we take the field," he said. "Up until (yesterday), the moves we've made have been the ones we felt were sensible. The things we haven't done, we didn't think they would be prudent. ... I'm not looking to play it out. I'm looking to do what is right.
Am I the only one that thinks Cashman has watched the opening speech from the film "Patton" more than once?:) Actually, it's one of my favorite movie scenes of all-time. Cash keep maintaining those brass ba***,you know what.
The Dynasty
07-28-06, 06:47 AM
One Major League executive said that the Yankees have expressed interest in Pittsburgh's Roberto Hernandez and Craig Wilson, and that the Pirates continue to show interest in Steven White, a 6-foot-5 right-hander. White went 4-1 with a 2.11 ERA in 11 starts for Double-A Trenton this season before being promoted to Triple-A Columbus, where he is 2-5 with a 4.86 ERA in nine starts.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)
That's enticing. VERY enticing.
NYDCYankee
07-28-06, 06:49 AM
That's enticing. VERY enticing.
So that is two sources on that. :)
The Dynasty
07-28-06, 06:58 AM
So that is two sources on that. :)
Heh, yeah. Just noticed that. But hey, that was the first thing that came to mind, ya know? But how can you not strongly consider that trade. I think both Wilson and Hernandez are free agents at the end of the season, so I believe if this is on the table for Cashman, that factor may be the only reason why he is thinking about it. It's worth the shot, though.
Edit: Make the reliever Salomon Torres and I don't hesitate to make the trade.
noneckwilliams
07-28-06, 08:10 AM
[/B]
Am I the only one that thinks Cashman has watched the opening speech from the film "Patton" more than once?:) Actually, it's one of my favorite movie scenes of all-time. Cash keep maintaining those brass ba***,you know what.
I love everything I'm hearing from Cash. Including his statements about not expecting too much from Shef and Matsui.
aeromac76
07-28-06, 08:15 AM
Heh, yeah. Just noticed that. But hey, that was the first thing that came to mind, ya know? But how can you not strongly consider that trade. I think both Wilson and Hernandez are free agents at the end of the season, so I believe if this is on the table for Cashman, that factor may be the only reason why he is thinking about it. It's worth the shot, though.
Edit: Make the reliever Salomon Torres and I don't hesitate to make the trade.
Not that I disagree, but I think I'd rather deal White for Abreu. And I think the Phillies will blink before the deadline and realize the sound they hear on the other side of the phone when they mention Hughes or Tabata is a dial tone and not really Cashman...
justin32099
07-28-06, 10:12 AM
I think Melky will be better than Bernie when it's all said and done
That's INSANE. Bernie made the leap from serviceable major leaguer (which he was from 1992-1995) to superstar (1997-2002, his last year as a really good player) that very, very few players make. Even if I grant you that Melky is about as good at 21 as Bernie was at 21 (though I could argue that Bernie showed a lot more in terms of secondary skills at that age), that doesn't give us any reason to think that Melky will make the same leap. Could he? Sure. But he has a LONG way to go.
Toaderly
07-28-06, 03:14 PM
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
Cashman has said all along that he has no interest in dealing blue-chip prospects such as Philip Hughes or Jose Tabata. However, should the right deal come along, anything is possible.
"I don't have anybody who is untouchable," Cashman said. "There are certainly harder guys to get than others, so I'll just leave it at that."
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Cashman always says this. Nothing new.
yankeebot
07-28-06, 03:17 PM
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
Nope. This has been his stance from day one. He has said the same thing over and over. Interpretation is subjective.
FromPagstoRiches
07-28-06, 03:28 PM
If Hughes is available (and did anyone really think he wasn't?), then the Jason Schmidt deal looks like it needs to finally get done. I'd say we could probably work something out for Bonds, but not sure he's what we need THIS year. Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor is way more than enough to get this done.
ICEBERG18
07-28-06, 03:39 PM
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Cashman has always said that.
ICEBERG18
07-28-06, 03:42 PM
If Hughes is available (and did anyone really think he wasn't?), then the Jason Schmidt deal looks like it needs to finally get done. I'd say we could probably work something out for Bonds, but not sure he's what we need THIS year. Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor is way more than enough to get this done.
Are you being serious or fescious?
TheMick@ND
07-28-06, 03:44 PM
If Hughes is available (and did anyone really think he wasn't?), then the Jason Schmidt deal looks like it needs to finally get done. I'd say we could probably work something out for Bonds, but not sure he's what we need THIS year. Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor is way more than enough to get this done.
I can never tell if you're really sarcastic or just full of horrible ideas/statements.
RIYankeeFan
07-28-06, 03:46 PM
What Cashman means is exactly that. Should the right trade come along, then yeah they're not untouchable. Liriano and Mauer for Hughes and Tabata, trades like that. ;)
But when you start talking about a Zito rental, an Abreu salary dump, and a Soriano redux, then yeah they're "untouchable" for the simple fact that it's not fair value for the long run. Not when they're upcoming free agents, or a player who just happen to fall of the radar with another huge contract.
FromPagstoRiches
07-28-06, 04:08 PM
I can never tell if you're really sarcastic or just full of horrible ideas/statements.
What's so horrible about this? The Giants can win the NL west without Schmidt. If they could get a can't-miss prospect in Hughes and unload Schmidt's salary, that would be something they would have to consider, no? I know SF is in the race, but they need to be realistic, as well. Forget Barry Bo now - that's just too complicated. Although the offseason is another story - I expect Bonds to be the every day DH in pinstripes next year. But Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor and maybe Wright would be a terrific deal.
ICEBERG18
07-28-06, 04:10 PM
What's so horrible about this? The Giants can win the NL west without Schmidt. If they could get a can't-miss prospect in Hughes and unload Schmidt's salary, that would be something they would have to consider, no? I know SF is in the race, but they need to be realistic, as well. Forget Barry Bo now - that's just too complicated. Although the offseason is another story - I expect Bonds to be the every day DH in pinstripes next year. But Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor and maybe Wright would be a terrific deal.
Wow.... so you're being serious.
What's so horrible about this? The Giants can win the NL west without Schmidt. If they could get a can't-miss prospect in Hughes and unload Schmidt's salary, that would be something they would have to consider, no? I know SF is in the race, but they need to be realistic, as well. Forget Barry Bo now - that's just too complicated. Although the offseason is another story - I expect Bonds to be the every day DH in pinstripes next year. But Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor and maybe Wright would be a terrific deal.
Do you honestly believe any of these ideas are possible?
They are a small step down from "Duncan and Pavano for Pujols! Do it Cashman!"
CalYankeeFan
07-28-06, 04:14 PM
If Hughes is available (and did anyone really think he wasn't?), then the Jason Schmidt deal looks like it needs to finally get done. I'd say we could probably work something out for Bonds..........
You lost me right there - any mention of Bonds anywhere near the Yankees makes me :barf:
FromPagstoRiches
07-28-06, 04:18 PM
Wow.... so you're being serious.
Absolutely. For the record, rather than just say these ideas are horrible, why not offer an explanation as to why. Unless we're overvaluing Hughes, which is always a possibility I suppose, why wouldn't Schmidt be available for a can't miss prospect, a decent SP and a solid setup guy?
RIYankee23
07-28-06, 04:23 PM
What's so horrible about this? The Giants can win the NL west without Schmidt. If they could get a can't-miss prospect in Hughes and unload Schmidt's salary, that would be something they would have to consider, no? I know SF is in the race, but they need to be realistic, as well. Forget Barry Bo now - that's just too complicated. Although the offseason is another story - I expect Bonds to be the every day DH in pinstripes next year. But Feliz and Schmidt for Hughes and Proctor and maybe Wright would be a terrific deal.
Why do we need a broken down Bonds? On top of that just look at the media circus and what a complete ass he is!
JeterRodriguezSheff
07-28-06, 04:25 PM
Absolutely. For the record, rather than just say these ideas are horrible, why not offer an explanation as to why. Unless we're overvaluing Hughes, which is always a possibility I suppose, why wouldn't Schmidt be available for a can't miss prospect, a decent SP and a solid setup guy?
Hughes is considered the best or second best pitching prospect(minors) in baseball, so no we arent overvalualing him if that was your point.
Kulish29
07-28-06, 04:28 PM
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Means nothing. Hughes and Tabata arent going anywhere unless it's for one of the following:
Pujols
Santana
Liriano
Cabrera
TheMick@ND
07-28-06, 05:26 PM
Absolutely. For the record, rather than just say these ideas are horrible, why not offer an explanation as to why. Unless we're overvaluing Hughes, which is always a possibility I suppose, why wouldn't Schmidt be available for a can't miss prospect, a decent SP and a solid setup guy?
Why trade 3 players with value including a "cant miss" prospect (your words) for a 33 year old NL pitcher. Assuming Hughes is can't miss means Schmidt is an big upgrade for us for half a year, maybe a bit longer and that's it (assuming Hughes will be up next year sometime). So we're giving up a young stud starting pitcher, plus another decent pitcher to get a veteran stud starting pitcher. Not worth it in my opinion.
MassNYYfan
07-28-06, 06:54 PM
Pags is not being serious.
Don't let 'em sucker ya.
LecheCaberera2826
07-28-06, 07:25 PM
Is this Salomon Torres guy really good because i haven't heard anything about him until this year, is he a good pick for a trade???
Trading for Schmidt is not a good idea. He hasn't earned his stripes yet.
Third Stream
07-29-06, 12:32 AM
I actually have faith in Cash not to do anything impulsive this time around (like when he waited until the last minute before the deadline a couple years ago and traded Contreras for Loaiza...).
Melky is a 21 year old who works the count and has that intangible "it" quality that people like to talk about. Do me a favor Cash, and don't think about including him any deal with the Pirates that doesn't have Jason Bay's name attached.
flymick24
07-29-06, 12:41 AM
Looks like Hughes and Tabata are no longer off limits...
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060727&content_id=1578594&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
sure, no prospect is untouchable. if the twins offered liriano to us for hughes, cashman would obviously pull the trigger... it all depends on who's being offered.
however, you don't trade prospects like hughes and tabata for older players like schmidt, soriano, or abreu
this deal would be ridiculous
i dont have a love fest for melky, I wouldn't lose any sleep if he got traded for a big name....but melky would have to be part of a package for a relatively young or atleast a "prime" all star caliber player (soriano, abreu) for me to want to get rid of melky
an aging veteran who may or may not produce any better then melky currently is just isn't really worth it
however I did hear pittsburg's closer may be on the block, i saw it on espn at some point and he was young and looked to have great stuff
flymick24
07-29-06, 12:47 AM
this deal would be ridiculous
i dont have a love fest for melky, I wouldn't lose any sleep if he got traded for a big name....but melky would have to be part of a package for a relatively young or atleast a "prime" all star caliber player (soriano, abreu) for me to want to get rid of melky
an aging veteran who may or may not produce any better then melky currently is just isn't really worth it
however I did hear pittsburg's closer may be on the block, i saw it on espn at some point and he was young and looked to have great stuff
the only person i've heard say that mike gonzalez is on the block is steve phillips, and he's pretty clueless.
the only person i've heard say that mike gonzalez is on the block is steve phillips, and he's pretty clueless.
i cant remember the name, is mike gonzalez black? i know the name is hispanic but i remember the guy looked black and he was relatively short
flymick24
07-29-06, 01:03 AM
i cant remember the name, is mike gonzalez black? i know the name is hispanic but i remember the guy looked black and he was relatively short
if you're talking about roberto hernandez, well... he's not black, and he's not the pirates' closer either. he is, however, on the block, and the yankees have supposedly been interested in him.
JeffWeaverFan
07-29-06, 01:06 AM
i cant remember the name, is mike gonzalez black? i know the name is hispanic but i remember the guy looked black and he was relatively short
Mike Gonzalez does not look black at all. Roberto Hernandez looks somewhat black but is not short.
flymick24
07-29-06, 01:18 AM
Roberto Hernandez looks somewhat black but is not short.
he's stocky... looks like he's missing a neck, too (kinda like felix heredia)
if you're talking about roberto hernandez, well... he's not black, and he's not the pirates' closer either. he is, however, on the block, and the yankees have supposedly been interested in him.
no i said young....i'll go look at their roster real quick...
yeah i guess it was mike gonzalez or whoever i saw got sent down the minors but it was probably gonzalez....
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_283166.jpg
so yeah i guess he doesn't look that black
Sooo many violations of CS...
re this melky thread
he has become my favorite player to watch. when i look at the scores, I check him first... watch the MLB video replays if he has made a sparkling defensive play or a key hit or at bat. he's usually there.
ICEBERG18
07-29-06, 09:35 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06210/709584-63.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06210/709584-63.stm)
ICEBERG18
07-29-06, 10:04 AM
• Reflecting the exponentially increased value of prospects, the Brian Cashman Yankees say they are not trading Phil Hughes, Jose Tabata or even Melky Cabrera.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/07/28/friday/1.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/07/28/friday/1.html)
In Mo I Trust
07-29-06, 10:31 AM
Good to hear, none of those guys should be going anywhere.
NYYRocket
07-29-06, 10:33 AM
Can we get a lock please?
NelsonMuntz
07-29-06, 10:50 AM
I think we just need to change the thread title. There's still a chance we could make a deal with Pittsburgh, I just don't see any evidence that Melky is the centerpiece for any deal that Pittsburgh is offering.
yanksphan
07-29-06, 10:53 AM
I think we just need to change the thread title. There's still a chance we could make a deal with Pittsburgh, I just don't see any evidence that Melky is the centerpiece for any deal that Pittsburgh is offering.
I don't think we need to change the thread title. Melky seems like a nice easy going kid. I'll bet he bids adieu to whomever we ship to Pittsburgh.
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