View Full Version : Worried about Proctor
goin for 27
05-24-06, 10:14 AM
I know that there have been comments in the bonehead thread, but I think that this may deserve a thread of its own. Scott Proctor is on pace to throw 120 innings this season. As of last week, he had thrown more pitches than any other reliever in baseball. He threw over 20 again last night.
The guy has really found himself, and Torre just keeps trotting him out there. He was rested going into last night, but at this pace, his arm will fall off by July 4.
I know Dotel is trending to a return, but Torre seems to trust Proctor much more than Farnsworth, and has habitully over the years overused relievers.
Heres to hoping that they ease up on the kid, pitch him judiciously, limit his pitches per appearance, and find a way to keep him fresh for the whole year.
For perspective, the last two years, Gordon threw 79 and 80 innings, and we know how much gas he had in the tank at the end.(He led in IP in 2005) Also, Quantill threw 86 innings in 2004 to lead all releivers, and he was shot for 2005.
This pace is like running a thoroughbred into the ground, they need to ease up on a kid who can really be a big cog this year.
Epy7280
05-24-06, 10:17 AM
I wish someone else could setup in the pen :(. I hope Randy can throw 8 ip and give the pen a day off. We should be able to hit Clement
Has he been Sturtzed already?
His last 2 outings, he had none of the new control that had made him son effective
Let's hope it's just a blip
It's called the law of diminishing returns.
YankeePride1967
05-24-06, 10:19 AM
he has to be used less, even if there's the absence of other choices.
The only positive is that Farnsworth isn't being overused.
ryanm1058123
05-24-06, 10:20 AM
Scott "Flash" Proctor
got a nice ring to it
flymick24
05-24-06, 10:38 AM
Scott "Flash" Proctor
got a nice ring to it
i think scott "TJ surgery" proctor sounds a bit more fitting
He seemed to tweak his calf muscle a week or so ago. At the time, he said it was an old injury. I wonder if it's affecting his leg drive.
Hitman23
05-24-06, 10:50 AM
I wonder how smug Snatch is right now. :lol: (not that I think he's happy, just smug)
ManilaYankee
05-24-06, 10:50 AM
i think scott "TJ surgery" proctor sounds a bit more fitting
Oh no, please no, we can't afford to have some more setbacks... :banned:
27IsNext
05-24-06, 10:51 AM
Can't say I'll be complaining if we have to DL him.
Panamaniac42
05-24-06, 11:20 AM
http://img468.imageshack.us/img468/3150/poorproc7yc.jpg
surge511
05-24-06, 11:24 AM
Proctor is our best set-up man, but Torre is overusing him. He will be completely ineffective at this rate by August. He needs more days off, and Farnsworth needs to work more. I pray that Dotel comes back soon and is good so that he can take some of the pressure off Proctor. Plus, our bullpen becomes very scary with those 3 setup men and Mo.
PeteRFNY
05-24-06, 11:24 AM
He just looks like a guy that's been throwing too much. A couple of weeks ago he had pitched in five straight games, or something crazy like that.
Part of the problem is Torre's reluctance to send Farns out for two innings. Even if the guy only throws 3 pitches in an inning, Torre will still pull him and replace him with Proctor.
Although last night we saw the reverse.
CaptainThurman
05-24-06, 01:06 PM
Well, Proctor absolutely sucked yesterday....so let's see a rebuilt pen with Mendoza, Smith and Dotel joining soon.
I don't think the overwork contributed to Manny's HR. The location was off, that happens to most pitchers on most days for at least a few pitches, and Manny hits mistakes. That's how it goes. As far as being overworked otherwise, I agree the pace is way too high for a reliever.
aeromac76
05-24-06, 01:26 PM
Not worried yet..
Farns was on the shelf for a few games so we had to overuse him, Farns is back now so that should be a little easier on Scott. Also, Dotel time is approaching, if he comes back to be something really good, then we can really have a string back end without overusing anyone..
On pace to throw 120 innings sounds scary, but as long as he only throws 60 or 70 total when it is all said and done, he should be alright..
JeffWeaverFan
05-24-06, 01:32 PM
His velocity was way down on his fastball last night... He needs some time off.
GraniteYankee
05-24-06, 01:35 PM
This should be a concern. Torre needs to blend in Villone more. I see a lot of posts discussing Dotel and his potential role to minimize Proctor's usage, but he is coming off a pretty serious injury and realistically we should not count on him - not right away anyway.
Panamaniac42
05-24-06, 02:01 PM
This should be a concern. Torre needs to blend in Villone more. I see a lot of posts discussing Dotel and his potential role to minimize Proctor's usage, but he is coming off a pretty serious injury and realistically we should not count on him - not right away anyway.
Yes haven't been thrilled with the usage of Villone so far.
AMYanks
05-24-06, 02:04 PM
We knew once he started pitching well that giving Torre a toy like him was a huge risk. Sadly, I think we are now experiencing the consequences.
27IsNext
05-24-06, 02:48 PM
When Dotel gets back, put him on the 15-Day.
knickfan23
05-24-06, 03:13 PM
As I've said about Proctor, him pitching as well as he did was a two-faced issue.
If he pitched bad, Joe wouldnt use him.
If he pitched well, Joe would use him to death.
He's on pace to be this year's Scot Shields. However, Shields has a rubber arm and willingly takes the toll. Proctor has been used to that toll and therefore, has a good chance of being Quantrilled/Sturtzed by July.
Joe Dokes
05-24-06, 03:20 PM
He's 29, with a career minor league walk rate of 4.26/9IP, so change is unlikely.
He strikes out a lot of guys, and always has, but that type of control means he's probably always going to throw a lot of pitches.
yankees27
05-24-06, 03:30 PM
He just looks like a guy that's been throwing too much. A couple of weeks ago he had pitched in five straight games, or something crazy like that.
Part of the problem is Torre's reluctance to send Farns out for two innings. Even if the guy only throws 3 pitches in an inning, Torre will still pull him and replace him with Proctor.
Although last night we saw the reverse.
Agreed. Farns seems to be being treated like he's made of glass. Looking back through his game log, you have games like April 26 where Farns had a 12 pitch 8th inning and he was pulled, and Mo ended up throwing 2 innings and 38 pitches. Or the huge comeback vs. the Rangers last week where Farns threw a 9 pitch 8th and was pulled. And of course we have the second game of the year, when Farns was pulled after 10 pitches to let Proctor pitch.
I don't think the overwork contributed to Manny's HR. The location was off, that happens to most pitchers on most days for at least a few pitches, and Manny hits mistakes. That's how it goes. As far as being overworked otherwise, I agree the pace is way too high for a reliever.
Lack of command is often a sign of fatigue.
hellonewman
05-24-06, 04:35 PM
The work pace is too demanding for a whole season, but he is the worst kind of hothouse orchid ever if he's burned out after 30 innings on May 24.
Maybe, just maybe, 8 years of mediocre-to-sucky pitching is a better indicator of his true abilities than a 1-month hot streak. Brett Prinz anyone?
The work pace is too demanding for a whole season, but he is the worst kind of hothouse orchid ever if he's burned out after 30 innings on May 24.
Maybe, just maybe, 8 years of mediocre-to-sucky pitching is a better indicator of his true abilities than a 1-month hot streak. Brett Prinz anyone?
Don't you think it's telling that he started to falter at the point Torre overused him the most?
hellonewman
05-24-06, 05:10 PM
Don't you think it's telling that he started to falter at the point Torre overused him the most?No, I think the longer a questionable pitcher is exposed to big-league hitters, the more likely his "questionableness" is to surface.
Last night's game followed this stretch:
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Off
Friday: 2 innings, 6 batters faced, 25 pitches
Saturday: 1 inning, 3 batters faced, 14 pitches
Sunday: Off
Monday: Off
A busy week but not exhaustive.
In April he accumulated 16 innings in a 25-day span (April 4-28). (He was off April 29 and 30). In May he has accumulated 16 innings in a 23-day span (May 1-23). You've really got to take a micrometer to the numbers to suggest May has seen an egregious uptick in his use relative to April.
If he's used this way all season, no, that's not good. But for crying out loud, a 29-year-old can't be claiming fatigue in May based on the above workload. Not that he, specifically, is.
No, I think the longer a questionable pitcher is exposed to big-league hitters, the more likely his "questionableness" is to surface.
Last night's game followed this stretch:
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Off
Friday: 2 innings, 6 batters faced, 25 pitches
Saturday: 1 inning, 3 batters faced, 14 pitches
Sunday: Off
Monday: Off
A busy week but not exhaustive.
In April he accumulated 16 innings in a 25-day span (April 4-28). (He was off April 29 and 30). In May he has accumulated 16 innings in a 23-day span (May 1-23). You've really got to take a micrometer to the numbers to suggest May has seen an egregious uptick in his use relative to April.
If he's used this way all season, no, that's not good. But for crying out loud, a 29-year-old can't be claiming fatigue in May based on the above workload. Not that he, specifically, is.
I think the effect is cumulative.
But when you reduce the situation to its most basic elements, the usage pattern isn't in the best interests of the team long term (when defined as the season; Proctor's long term interests are in greater jeopardy).
Unless, of course, as I mentioned above, the calf injury is bothering him, but then you have the added concern that he could be altering his mechanics to compensate, thereby risking an injury.
YankeePride1967
05-24-06, 08:49 PM
and here is Proctor up again in the pen. He may have to learn to pitch lefty by July.
27IsNext
05-24-06, 09:02 PM
To the DL he goes! Fifteen days of rest coming soon!
Mattpat11
05-24-06, 09:59 PM
I fear the real Scott Proctor may be returning.
27IsNext
05-24-06, 10:08 PM
I fear the real Scott Proctor may be returning.
I fear his arm is long gone, but hey, I thought Sturtze had finally turned the corner too.
Btw, Farnsworth finally turned the corner.
cmaff05
05-24-06, 11:48 PM
He gave us two easy outs after that Manny home run..he's no ineffective at all..he just needs rest.
I think we can simplify it to one conclusion: Manny owns Scott Proctor.
puckmaster87
05-24-06, 11:58 PM
He gave us two easy outs after that Manny home run..he's no ineffective at all..he just needs rest.
I think we can simplify it to one conclusion: Manny owns Scott Proctor.
Manny seems to be owning everyone right now. Seems like the only way to get him out is to throw something high and inside then work some breaking balls away.
yankees76
05-25-06, 01:33 AM
Proctor has thrown the most pitches of any Reliever in the MLs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?seasonType=2&type=pitch3&sort=pitches&split=128&season=2006&pos=all&hand=a&league=mlb&ageMin=17&ageMax=51
I think, unfortunately, this is a classic case of Joe over-playing the hot hand and over-using one of his (effective) relievers, to the detriment of the team. My mind was made up on this last year, when he allowed 2005's flavor of the day, Tanyon Sturtze, who was lights out to that point in the season, throw 4.0 innings in a game that didn't mean much.
Sturtze hasn't been the same since. Paul Quantrill, anyone??
Maybe Joe is smarter than all of us. Maybe RH relievers are a dime a dozen. I'd just like to see effective relief out of the BP, and over-using Proctor does not seem to get us closer to that goal.
ryanthe13th
05-25-06, 01:59 AM
We're catching lightning in a bottle with Proctor. Unfortunately, Torre is blowing the lightning in a bottle by over using him.
As for the Manny moon shots, Ramirez just hits Proctor hard. In the last game of the 2005 season, Ramirez took Proctor deep. The last time they faced each other, Proctor brushed Manny off the plate and then K'd him. Now, due to his lack of control which stems from over use, Ramirez is back to hitting bombs off him.
b_joseph
05-25-06, 02:13 AM
He gave us two easy outs after that Manny home run..he's no ineffective at all..he just needs rest.
I think we can simplify it to one conclusion: Manny owns Scott Proctor.
Manny owns nearly everyone, its no disgrace to Proctor.
Scott will be fine..we just need our starters to go deep for a few games.
Yankees1962
05-25-06, 04:49 AM
We're catching lightning in a bottle with Proctor. Unfortunately, Torre is blowing the lightning in a bottle by over using him.
As for the Manny moon shots, Ramirez just hits Proctor hard. In the last game of the 2005 season, Ramirez took Proctor deep. The last time they faced each other, Proctor brushed Manny off the plate and then K'd him. Now, due to his lack of control which stems from over use, Ramirez is back to hitting bombs off him.
Give Torre some options before accusing him of blowing the lightning. During the month of May, Torre has used Proctor in games he needed to because of the lack of quality alternatives. Farnsworth missing some games didn't help. The Yankees need another quality right-handed setup man besides Proctor and Farnsworth.
YankeePride1967
05-25-06, 07:09 AM
Give Torre some options before accusing him of blowing the lightning. During the month of May, Torre has used Proctor in games he needed to because of the lack of quality alternatives. Farnsworth missing some games didn't help. The Yankees need another quality right-handed setup man besides Proctor and Farnsworth.
I agree about the options, but regardless, last night Proctor should not have been in the game.
justinvarnes
05-25-06, 07:35 AM
I would advocate the use of Villone as an alternative for Proctor in the 7th. Villone is a lefty, but gets out righties as well. Balancing Villone with Proctor should allow some depth in the 'pen.
DontHateOnNumber2
05-25-06, 07:12 PM
I'm worried about him to, in terms of how many innings he's logged so far. Try to keep him out of games with a sizeable lead. Bring in Ron Villone, he's probably falling asleep in the bullpen.
spiritof27
05-25-06, 10:38 PM
Even though I think part of the problem is overuse, the other part of the problem might be that his peripherals haven't changed at all.
Powered by vBulletin™ Version 4.0.7 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
0