View Full Version : Ozzie takes shots at A-rod and Torre
yankeefan24
02-16-06, 06:07 AM
Ozzie Guillen takes shots at A-rod in the nydaiynews today and at Joe Torre in some interview. Guillen needs to shut his mouth. He was never the ball player A-rod was and is not the manger torre is.
What did he say to A-Rod?
yankeebot
02-16-06, 06:36 AM
yankeefan24 - I am the last one to want to play thread police but, please, a little more effort next time.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/391834p-332306c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/391834p-332306c.html)
"Alex was kissing Latino people's (butts)," Guillen, who's from Venezuela, said in the most recent issue of Sports Illustrated. "He knew he wasn't going to play for the Dominicans; he's not a Dominican!"
Rodriguez, who has dual citizenship in the Dominican Republic and United States, was linked to both teams' rosters at various points over the past few months and also said once that he simply wasn't going to play in the tournament because choosing a country to represent was too difficult. After talking with MLB and WBC officials, however, he opted to play for the Americans, and Guillen apparently found his flip-flopping to be disingenuous. "I hate hypocrites: He's full of ---," Guillen said. "The Dominican team doesn't need his (butt). It's the same with (Nomar) Garciaparra playing for Mexico. Garciaparra only knows Cancun because he went to visit."
for a good manager, Guillen says an amazing amount of dumb things. and now, having won a WS for the White Sox, he'll be insufferable.
i don't get all the hate of A-Rod; in NY, he's shown that he's hard-working and team-oriented - the way he picked up 3B has really impressed me, as well as the subtle things such as baserunning. all these people in MLB who take shots at him must be jealous. hopefully A-Rod understands this, as then these displays of jealousy would amuse him.
Panamaniac42
02-16-06, 09:23 AM
"Well, Ozzie, you juse became an American citizen, but why don't you go back to your f*ckin country, because you're not really an American and don't know sh*t about being an American."
See how stupid that sounds. God I can't stand that guy.]
Also if I remember correctly, Guillen was laughing it up with ARod, kissing his ass while they were onfield during the WS doing the whole "Greatest Latin Ballplayers" thing. Who's the phony? You want to be "real" Ozzie tell ARod how you feel up front instead of smiling to his face, idiot.
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-16-06, 09:24 AM
Why does anyone here care what Ozzie Guillen says?
Panamaniac42
02-16-06, 09:27 AM
Why does anyone here care what Ozzie Guillen says?
It's in the Daily News and for all purposes he's being racist, kind of like how the NAACP clown basically said Donovan wasn't "black enough"?? I don't respect anything Guillen says but that doesn't mean we don't talk about it.
InterlockingNY
02-16-06, 09:38 AM
I just cant understand why he feels the need to open his mouth about other people and other teams. Just worry about the White Sox and shut your hole. I mean, getting on Joe, Come on dude. What business of his is it where Nomar plays? Just coach and pipe down.......PLEASE
BBombers85
02-16-06, 09:47 AM
Ozzie Gullien is not 10% the player A-rod is. He should concentrate on trying to repeat versus a hot Cleveland team and the rest of the AL (esp the AL East) which has dramatically improved. I think Omar Minaya would love Guillen...just a note.
effdamets
02-16-06, 09:57 AM
This just might be some "fuel for the fire" come October when the Yankees are shallacking the White Sox in the ALCS!!!
What a stupid head this guy is.... I know he has never been one to 'stay quiet' when he is asked his opinion, but, jeeze... I mean you win one stinking World Series and you think you are the all-world God?
Also, A-Rod is a lightning rod for criticism.... We all know that. I think Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbon said best when they said, "What is it specifically about Arod that guys like Schill and Trot Nixon just can't stand?
He's better looking, he's cooler, he's got all the money. That's what they can't stand!"
UncleSam
02-16-06, 10:16 AM
I like Ozzie's approach. He's confident and he believes in what he says and frankly doesn't care if people don't like it. Some of that attitude rubbed off on his team last year and that swagger definitely helped them win the title. Besides, if the focus is on him then it takes some of the pressure of the players.
Frankly, what's so great about "staying quiet"? He's an outspoken guy and he always has been and I honestly think it's refreshing in a culture where most people are afraid to be honest with the media these days.
Truth be told, he didn't say anything all that controversial anyway. Plenty of other people would agree with his comments.
effdamets
02-16-06, 10:34 AM
I like Ozzie's approach. He's confident and he believes in what he says and frankly doesn't care if people don't like it. Some of that attitude rubbed off on his team last year and that swagger definitely helped them win the title. Besides, if the focus is on him then it takes some of the pressure of the players.
Frankly, what's so great about "staying quiet"? He's an outspoken guy and he always has been and I honestly think it's refreshing in a culture where most people are afraid to be honest with the media these days.
Truth be told, he didn't say anything all that controversial anyway. Plenty of other people would agree with his comments.
I was always taught that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything...
Arod for President
02-16-06, 10:37 AM
This deff. wouldnt be the first time Ozzie Guillen has stuck his big foot in his mouth. You know for someone who gets so much praise and respect, he sure says alot of really idiotic things. whats up with that??
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-16-06, 10:39 AM
It's in the Daily News
I have no idea why that means anyone should care about it.
I don't respect anything Guillen says but that doesn't mean we don't talk about it.
I didn't say people shouldn't talk about it. I simply asked why on earth anyone would talk about it. So he doesn't like A-Rod. Big deal, join the club. I just don't know why you'd pay any mind to something that has no bearing on the yankees whatsoever.
Jdkush10
02-16-06, 10:41 AM
I like Ozzie's approach. He's confident and he believes in what he says and frankly doesn't care if people don't like it. Some of that attitude rubbed off on his team last year and that swagger definitely helped them win the title. Besides, if the focus is on him then it takes some of the pressure of the players.
Frankly, what's so great about "staying quiet"? He's an outspoken guy and he always has been and I honestly think it's refreshing in a culture where most people are afraid to be honest with the media these days.
Truth be told, he didn't say anything all that controversial anyway. Plenty of other people would agree with his comments.
Just because other people may agree with him doesn't mean it's not controversial.
I'm all for guys speaking their mind, but I don't think it's too much to ask/expect them to show a little class in the process. Ozzie has no right to determine who should play for what team. If a player is qualified to play for a team, and wants to play for them, and in return that team wants that player, why shouldn't said player play for said team? Ozzie has just fallen in love with himself after all the success and attention he's had over the last copule of years. I personally can't stand him, but also can't argue with the results he's gotten. Whatever though, I hope his team goes down the crapper with all the expectations they have this year.
NewEraYanks2527
02-16-06, 10:41 AM
Screw Ozzie Guillen. I really dont think of him as such a great manager though, it's nice when your front office makes some decent moves and bolsters your pitching staff and has an eye for guys like Bobby Jenks. Who cares what he has to say, he's got his world title but lets see if he can get back to October. Last year is over, lets see what you got this year.
Panamaniac42
02-16-06, 10:45 AM
I have no idea why that means anyone should care about it.
Sometimes when one reads something in their morning paper it is natural to react and discuss? Or is that an outlandish thought?
I just don't know why you'd pay any mind to something that has no bearing on the yankees whatsoever.
It involves the Yankees's best player, I'm sure people will want to know what ARod's response is. Yes it is all childish BS but its the same ST stuff as last year, different idiot doing the talking.
You're here offering your opinions about it, paying mind to it, so obviously you care?
yankeebot
02-16-06, 10:46 AM
I like Ozzie's approach. He's confident and he believes in what he says and frankly doesn't care if people don't like it. Some of that attitude rubbed off on his team last year and that swagger definitely helped them win the title. Besides, if the focus is on him then it takes some of the pressure of the players.
Frankly, what's so great about "staying quiet"? He's an outspoken guy and he always has been and I honestly think it's refreshing in a culture where most people are afraid to be honest with the media these days.
Truth be told, he didn't say anything all that controversial anyway. Plenty of other people would agree with his comments.For the record, I like Ozzie,too,. but it is one thing to criticize Alex for being wishy-washy and for wanting to play for a country other than the one he was born and raised in. It is another thing to stoop to insults and name calling with "Alex was kissing Latino people's (butts)," and "I hate hypocrites: He's full of ---,"
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-16-06, 10:50 AM
Sometimes when one reads something in their morning paper it is natural to react and discuss? Or is that an outlandish thought?
When the paper offers a nothing story, I find it natural to ignore it. Lots of stuff is in the paper, much of it boring and basically irrelevant.
It involves the Yankees's best player, I'm sure people will want to know what ARod's response is.
Really? Why? Why should A-Rod respond at all? Ozzie said something stupid, why dignify it with a response? Hopefully since last year A-Rod's learned the lesson that people will say lots of things and there's no reason to get involved with stupidity.
You're here offering your opinions about it, paying mind to it, so obviously you care?
I don't care one bit. I opened the thread to see what the comments were. Once I saw they were so meaningless, I was surprised to see people like you caring about it. Makes no sense.
BostonYankeeBoy
02-16-06, 10:57 AM
Typical of Ozzie, ordinarily I would be mad if someone said something that but I expect comments like that from him. However that doesn't make what he said right, but I don't think people (arod fan or not) will take what he said seriously.
that jack ass wraps him self in the venzulian flag and then becomes a US citizen while I have no problem with either it gives him no right to talk about arods country filp floping
Jdkush10
02-16-06, 11:04 AM
When the paper offers a nothing story, I find it natural to ignore it. Lots of stuff is in the paper, much of it boring and basically irrelevant.
Really? Why? Why should A-Rod respond at all? Ozzie said something stupid, why dignify it with a response? Hopefully since last year A-Rod's learned the lesson that people will say lots of things and there's no reason to get involved with stupidity.
I don't care one bit. I opened the thread to see what the comments were. Once I saw they were so meaningless, I was surprised to see people like you caring about it. Makes no sense.
Why does it matter to you whether we care or not? This is a discussion board. We are discussing a baseball-related matter. Whether you find this topic irrelevant or not is not our concern. If you don't find it relevant, don't participate in this thread. Simple as that. Let people who want to talk about it talk about it.
stephsamps
02-16-06, 11:42 AM
What is this a trend? You win the World Series and all of a sudden its time to knock AROD? I would think world champions would have better stuff to talk about?
NYYBombshell
02-16-06, 11:42 AM
Dear Ozzie Guillen,
Shut up.
Sincerely,
NYYBombshell
Casey37
02-16-06, 11:49 AM
Let him say what he wants, he's just looking for attention. I'm sure everybody within the Yankee organization will ignore his comments anyway.
LuckyLopez
02-16-06, 11:59 AM
It's in the Daily News and for all purposes he's being racist, kind of like how the NAACP clown basically said Donovan wasn't "black enough"?? I don't respect anything Guillen says but that doesn't mean we don't talk about it.
How, by any stretch of the imagination, did Ozzie say something racist? Have we diluted the definition of that word SO much that anytime anyone says anything that even vaguely involves race that he's a racist? Saying that A-Rod "isn't a Dominican" isn't racist. Its not fact either, its Ozzie's opinion as he clearly makes a difference between A-Rod's legal citizenship and his cultural identity. Same with Nomar. I'm not saying I agree with it, but its not racist. And its in no way the same thing as saying that McNabb isn't "black enough", which is ignorant and somewhat racist because it puts stereotypes on what being "black" is. He didn't say A-Rod isn't Domincan enough. He didn't say A-Rod shouldn't play for the DR. He didn't say anything like that. He said that he thinks A-Rod was full of it and that he just played people since he was never going to play for the DR, something which Ozzie believes because he doesn't think A-Rod is Dominican in any true way. By all means, disagree with him. He's not exactly making a strong case. But its not racist.
And I fail to see what Guillen's citizenship has to do with this even though people keep bringing it up. What difference does it make that he's recently gained American citizenship? I suppose if he was coaching the American team than it would have some importance towards showing him to be hypocritical. But as is it looks like another random attack thrown at him. He's not arguing that A-Rod shouldn't have dual citizenship. He's not even arguing that a player like A-Rod or Nomar couldn't play for a team other than the one of their births (and I always forget where A-Rod was born). He's making a claim about whether A-Rod or Nomar are truly Domincan or Mexican. Its no different from the people on this board that claimed that Nomar wasn't truly Mexican or that Piazza isn't truly Italian. Its the same school of arguement.
The comment was controversial, obnoxious, and at most debatable (and at worst just idiotically false). Plenty of reason to get annoyed by it without arguing that Guillen (a) is racist, (b) is jealous of A-Rod, or (c) should shut up because he holds dual citizenship.
donniesrecordholdsup
02-16-06, 12:17 PM
wrong about arod. right about torre. and guillen is a better manager then torre. torre doesnt win with last years white sox team.
effdamets
02-16-06, 12:42 PM
Dear Ozzie Guillen,
Shut up.
Sincerely,
NYYBombshell
My sentiments... almost. I was think more along the lines of "Up Yours"!
Baby... You're the Greatest! (Bombshell)
what did he say about torre?
Jeter Kid
02-16-06, 12:56 PM
Ozzie sure is taking this WBC thing a bit too far.
LuckyLopez
02-16-06, 01:11 PM
what did he say about torre?
Nothing really. He basically brought up Torre and Phil Jackson in an effort to argue that coaches/managers don't win but rather that its the talent that wins games and used those two as examples. But the point was not to single out Torre or Jackson but just to say it holds true for all managers/coaches. But some NY papers took a quote out of context and it caused a mini stir.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...ack=1&cset=true
On what makes a good manager: "Nobody's a good manager. Nobody. With all due respect, people forgot Joe Torre, he was a losing manager all his life until he got to New York. What's he got? Great players. Phil Jackson, it's a funny thing, we go, 'He's great.' You got Michael Jordan and you got Scottie Pippen … You're not good. You got good players."
The key line is "Nobody's a good manager" but the NY papers quoted the Torre part without it.
The thread's over here:
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92911
Jdkush10
02-16-06, 01:11 PM
wrong about arod. right about torre. and guillen is a better manager then torre. torre doesnt win with last years white sox team.
Let's give Guillen a little more time to build a track record before we start comparing him to Torre.
Bern Baby Be
02-16-06, 01:46 PM
Everyone should take everything Ozzie says with a grain of salt. He's always shooting off his mouth about something or someone; he's done it his whole career, even when he was playing. The more important question is why do so many people feel they have to bad-mouth A-Rod? I love A-Rod but, you have to wonder why so many of his own peers don't hesitate to publicly bash him. It's really weird.
yankeefan24
02-16-06, 01:59 PM
Everyone should take everything Ozzie says with a grain of salt. He's always shooting off his mouth about something or someone; he's done it his whole career, even when he was playing. The more important question is why do so many people feel they have to bad-mouth A-Rod? I love A-Rod but, you have to wonder why so many of his own peers don't hesitate to publicly bash him. It's really weird.
It's the only way they can make Espn if they bash A-rod
BrooklynBotz
02-16-06, 02:03 PM
wrong about arod. right about torre. and guillen is a better manager then torre. torre doesnt win with last years white sox team.
It's not like the White Sox didn't have a lot of talent. Look at the starters they had. Last years White Sox reminded me a lot of some of Torre's earlier Yankees teams, and I think he could have managed them to a championship as well. that is a good team.
NYYMazda
02-16-06, 03:08 PM
What is this a trend? You win the World Series and all of a sudden its time to knock AROD? I would think world champions would have better stuff to talk about?
It does seem like a pretty nasty trend. Lets just hope we win the WS this year so that we can show everyone how to act like world champions should...with class.
Bambino22
02-16-06, 03:14 PM
What did he say about torre?
edit- nevermind
ryanthe13th
02-16-06, 03:28 PM
Guillen must've been so happy when Anaheim beat the Yankees so he didn't have to face us. This guy is a moron. Whatever happened to him retiring if the White Sox won the World Series?
somejerk
02-16-06, 03:52 PM
Everyone on this board has made flippant and obnoxious comments about players on other teams. Ozzie Guillen has just as much of a right to make a comment as anyone here, maybe even more so considering he's actually played in the major leagues and is currently the manager of the world champions.
That said he could just as easily say the same things about Mike Piazza for playing for Italy, as he did about Nomar.
LeapsNbounds
02-16-06, 05:24 PM
Ozzie sure is taking this WBC thing a bit too far.
No kidding, doesn't he realize that this WBC is the lamest tournament ever? All it is going to take is someone real important (A-rod, jeter, Pulojs etc) to a particular team get injured and that will be the end of that. Selig will have to fill all the teams with minor leaguers.
This should make the all-star game interesting when A-rod is starting at 3rd and in the same dugout as Ozzie. I am sure that Ozzie will publicly apoligize by then anyway.
AndThenThereWasTino
02-16-06, 05:24 PM
"Well, Ozzie, you juse became an American citizen, but why don't you go back to your f*ckin country, because you're not really an American and don't know sh*t about being an American."
See how stupid that sounds. God I can't stand that guy.
Also if I remember correctly, Guillen was laughing it up with ARod, kissing his ass while they were onfield during the WS doing the whole "Greatest Latin Ballplayers" thing. Who's the phony? You want to be "real" Ozzie tell ARod how you feel up front instead of smiling to his face, idiot.
I can't wait till the season starts so that the Yankees can shove his words right down his throat. I am not in the majority of thinking this but IMO Ozzie is *NOT* a good manager. He pulled moves that ANYBODY would. Can't wait to take this onto the field. Hope you enjoyed your fluke season Ozzie, cause the Yankees are coming to take back what they deserve.
What did he say about torre?
edit- nevermind
wait, i haven't found that yet...
what DID he say about torre?
yankeebot
02-16-06, 06:41 PM
wait, i haven't found that yet...
what DID he say about torre?http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92911
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92911
thanks...i'm surprised i didn't noticed that, must've fallen asleep that day in class
HouseThatRingsBuild
02-16-06, 06:49 PM
Last off-season, Schilling and Millar tooks shots at A-Rod. A-rod went on to win the MVP. Maybe this will fuel A-rod more. So, bring it, Ozzie.
bmorebamma
02-16-06, 07:34 PM
Dear Ozzie Guillen,
Shut up.
Sincerely,
NYYBombshell
AGREE PLEASE OZZIE STICK A FREAKIN SOX IN IT (NO PUN INTENDED) ;) ;)
DontHateOnNumber2
02-16-06, 08:03 PM
Ozzie needs to shut up. He got lucky IMO because he didn't face the Yankees, we'll see how the White Sox do next year. Until then he's going to try his best to get on all the sports pages, fan forums, and Sportscenters that he can.
BobbyMurcerFan
02-16-06, 11:51 PM
Why does anyone here care what Ozzie Guillen says?Especially when it seems to mirror almost exactly consensus opinion around here anyway? :confused: :eek: ;)
Yanks4eva1
02-17-06, 06:16 AM
I saw this nonsense in yesterday's Daily News and just laughed. I love it how someone can take on others of various ethnicities and say they aren't being true to "their people" for one reason or another. I thought the comment regarding Nomar Garciaparra was particularly foul. Ozzie wasn' t there with A-Rod when his mother worked many jobs just to keep the family afloat and did what she could to make sure her son had the opportunities she didn't. Poor Tiger Woods had to hear (on Oprah no less) that he wasn't really black or true to his blackness. No one was there when kids hung him on a fence for hours at age 5 because of his blackness and his dad found him. Nomar, A-Rod, or Tiger or anyone else needs to explain or validate who they are and where they come from. To ANYONE.
Winning a World Series doesn't give you the license to be an arsehole and put others down to exalt yourself. The quicker they rise, the harder they fall. When is his 15 minutes up? Dissing Joe Torre? BAD MOVE. I hope that Nomar and A-Rod let their talents do all the talking and don't respond to this mindless drivel at all.
Dee
silverdsl
02-17-06, 08:59 AM
I think Guillen has a right to his opinions, however it's the way that he says things that bothers me. His comments are so harsh and there's no need for that. He can get his point across without calling people hypocrites and insulting them.
-Deborah
CoyoteYankee
02-17-06, 10:15 AM
Truth be told, he didn't say anything all that controversial anyway. Plenty of other people would agree with his comments.
I have never disliked Ozzie and I saw nothing wrong with his Torre comments but this one has pissed me off. I thought his comments were really stupid. I like his openness, candor and honesty about the way he feels. I just don't like the way that he feels.
How, by any stretch of the imagination, did Ozzie say something racist? Have we diluted the definition of that word SO much that anytime anyone says anything that even vaguely involves race that he's a racist? Saying that A-Rod "isn't a Dominican" isn't racist. Its not fact either, its Ozzie's opinion as he clearly makes a difference between A-Rod's legal citizenship and his cultural identity. Same with Nomar. I'm not saying I agree with it, but its not racist. And its in no way the same thing as saying that McNabb isn't "black enough", which is ignorant and somewhat racist because it puts stereotypes on what being "black" is. He didn't say A-Rod isn't Domincan enough. He didn't say A-Rod shouldn't play for the DR. He didn't say anything like that. He said that he thinks A-Rod was full of it and that he just played people since he was never going to play for the DR, something which Ozzie believes because he doesn't think A-Rod is Dominican in any true way. By all means, disagree with him. He's not exactly making a strong case. But its not racist.
I don't think that Ozzie is a racist but I think there is a definite comparison between saying someone isn't "black enough" and saying that someone "isn't a Dominican" when that clearly is their heritage. A black person can't change the fact that they're black (unless they are Michael Jackson) and a Dominican person can't change the fact that they are Dominican. However, the person saying these things about another is clearly indicating that blacks and Dominicans need to behave in certain ways in order to be "real" blacks or Dominicans. Let me ask you one thing, what is the definition of being a Dominican in a "true way"? I think it the whole thing is stupid. F Ozzie.
BillBuckner
02-17-06, 10:26 AM
F*ck Guillen. The one thing Torre and A-Rod have that he'll never have is class and professionalism. I like to see him try to say the $hit in front of the Yankee dugout. He'll fold just like he did in the '99 World Series. Douche bag.
yankeesAZ
02-17-06, 11:13 AM
This really is something to get too upset over and his comments are funny (in a bad way). A-Rod can just give him the finger the next time he sees Ozzie and move on.
The Nomar comment by Ozzie was funny.
Hitman23
02-17-06, 12:01 PM
A-Rod is an American. What does this guy not understand about that?
Pride for your country is fine, I have no issue. Buf if you're gonna take it this far, if you love your home country more then you love it here, go the hell home.
ChocolateGirl
02-17-06, 12:04 PM
I have no idea why that means anyone should care about it.
I didn't say people shouldn't talk about it. I simply asked why on earth anyone would talk about it. So he doesn't like A-Rod. Big deal, join the club. I just don't know why you'd pay any mind to something that has no bearing on the yankees whatsoever.
I mean really were you that surprised to find a thread about this on THIS FORUM? So what if people decides to talk about this topic? It is being dicuss because a) its off season baseball news and b) it involves a player from the Yankees. And regardless, even if this quote was made during the season it still will have its on thread. This particular forum is Yankees Out of Play, which means that people will discuss any and everything players do and say on their spare time away from baseball.
When the paper offers a nothing story, I find it natural to ignore it. Lots of stuff is in the paper, much of it boring and basically irrelevant.
Really? Why? Why should A-Rod respond at all? Ozzie said something stupid, why dignify it with a response? Hopefully since last year A-Rod's learned the lesson that people will say lots of things and there's no reason to get involved with stupidity.
I don't care one bit. I opened the thread to see what the comments were. Once I saw they were so meaningless, I was surprised to see people like you caring about it. Makes no sense.
If you found a story in the paper that is boring and irrelevant, why would you open and respond to this thread concerning that same topic? Why waste your time telling people "Why do you care about this topic" instead of reading threads in the forum in which you care about? You aren't the only who did this. The "Why do you care about this" comment is so annoying. People care and respond to whatever thread topics interest them, big deal.
UncleSam
02-17-06, 12:49 PM
A-Rod is an American. What does this guy not understand about that?
Pride for your country is fine, I have no issue. Buf if you're gonna take it this far, if you love your home country more then you love it here, go the hell home.
You need to read the whole article in SI. Guillen clearly states that he owes everything he has to the US and that it is the greatest country in the world.
Hitman23
02-17-06, 01:01 PM
You need to read the whole article in SI. Guillen clearly states that he owes everything he has to the US and that it is the greatest country in the world.I'm sorry, I read the condensed article on my phone this morning. I don't recall those comments.
But I still stand behind my comment. I have no issue with home country pride. You should be proud of where you're from. But to impose that on anyone else, and to be that upset that an American chose to play for an American team is just uncalled for. I'm sorry. It's not his choice, or right to judge.
Gotta say I didn't see this one coming.
Nice job on the headline on foxsports by the way, "Gullien apologies to A-Rod for 'hypocrite' remarks"
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5341356
flymick24
02-17-06, 09:50 PM
he had the balls to apologize, but really, he shouldn't have had to apologize for anything to begin with had he just shut the hell up
CoyoteYankee
02-17-06, 11:03 PM
White Sox general manager Ken Williams, who had to do damage control a couple of times last season, said he talked with Guillen and tried to get him to adopt a "no comment" policy on some subjects. It probably won't happen.
:lol: This freakin' cracked me up. I can just picture that converstaion. "Repeat after me Ozzie --- No comment"
Panamaniac42
02-18-06, 12:59 AM
I mean really were you that surprised to find a thread about this on THIS FORUM? So what if people decides to talk about this topic? It is being dicuss because a) its off season baseball news and b) it involves a player from the Yankees. And regardless, even if this quote was made during the season it still will have its on thread. This particular forum is Yankees Out of Play, which means that people will discuss any and everything players do and say on their spare time away from baseball.
If you found a story in the paper that is boring and irrelevant, why would you open and respond to this thread concerning that same topic? Why waste your time telling people "Why do you care about this topic" instead of reading threads in the forum in which you care about? You aren't the only who did this. The "Why do you care about this" comment is so annoying. People care and respond to whatever thread topics interest them, big deal.
Thank you for saving me some typing; I haven't been in this thread in a few days.
It's always amusing when someone tries to tell people what constitutes a legitimate topic of discussion. The posts by the "why do you care about this" police are pretty useless. I mean, why do you care about me caring? If you don't like the thread, go discuss something else. I'm here to talk about the Yankees. ARod is a Yankee. (In the words of Rafael Palmeiro,) "PERIOD."
Panamaniac42
02-18-06, 01:18 AM
I don't think that Ozzie is a racist but I think there is a definite comparison between saying someone isn't "black enough" and saying that someone "isn't a Dominican" when that clearly is their heritage. A black person can't change the fact that they're black (unless they are Michael Jackson) and a Dominican person can't change the fact that they are Dominican. However, the person saying these things about another is clearly indicating that blacks and Dominicans need to behave in certain ways in order to be "real" blacks or Dominicans. Let me ask you one thing, what is the definition of being a Dominican in a "true way"? I think it the whole thing is stupid. F Ozzie.
Totally agree with you. Anwyay I used "racist" for lack of a better term, but shouldn't have. Maybe I should have just said he's an ignorant prick.
LuckyLopez, you say:
And its in no way the same thing as saying that McNabb isn't "black enough", which is ignorant and somewhat racist because it puts stereotypes on what being "black" is. He didn't say A-Rod isn't Domincan enough. He didn't say A-Rod shouldn't play for the DR. He didn't say anything like that.
Uhh, actually he said A-Rod wasn't Dominican AT ALL (which is even worse)! "Alex was kissing Latino people's (butts)," Guillen, who's from Venezuela, said in the most recent issue of Sports Illustrated. "He knew he wasn't going to play for the Dominicans; he's not a Dominican!"
He said that he thinks A-Rod was full of it and that he just played people since he was never going to play for the DR, something which Ozzie believes because he doesn't think A-Rod is Dominican in any true way.
So you try to dismiss the comparison to NAACP guy saying McNabb's not "black enough", then say this ARod thing is no big deal because Ozzie just doesn't believe ARod is "Dominican in any true way" (your words). Please do tell me what allows someone to be a Dominican, or any other ethnicity/race in a "true way".
And I fail to see what Guillen's citizenship has to do with this even though people keep bringing it up. What difference does it make that he's recently gained American citizenship?
Ozzie was apparently very proud of his new American citizenship. Ozzie then snubs the White House visit. I don't care if you hate Bush & Cheney and want them dead, it's not about politics. It's an honor as World Champions to visit. But I don't even think he skipped out to snub Bush, I think he just said screw it because he's ignorant. It's almost similar to not voting. No one said he was required to go...but as leader of the World Champions, why would ignore the responsibility to go and meet and accept congratulations from the leader of your new country? Anyway what I'm trying to say is that the issue of Guillen's citizenship does matter for argument's sake - if we were using his stupid logic, we could say well Ozzie YOU'RE the hypocrite. You're not, to use your term, "American in a true way".
FanInExile
02-18-06, 01:30 AM
Honestly...Who cares. This guy made an irresponsible comment and by apologizing publically HE is the one who looks like an idiot. The WBC being held before the regular baseball season is a bad idea and to ask a player who honestly cares about their production on their team to risk their health is irresponsible by the MLB.
LuckyLopez
02-18-06, 03:50 AM
I don't think that Ozzie is a racist but I think there is a definite comparison between saying someone isn't "black enough" and saying that someone "isn't a Dominican" when that clearly is their heritage. A black person can't change the fact that they're black (unless they are Michael Jackson) and a Dominican person can't change the fact that they are Dominican. However, the person saying these things about another is clearly indicating that blacks and Dominicans need to behave in certain ways in order to be "real" blacks or Dominicans. Let me ask you one thing, what is the definition of being a Dominican in a "true way"? I think it the whole thing is stupid. F Ozzie.
What is the definition of being "a Dominican" to me? I have no idea. I'm an Irish-Spanish American. 3rd generation Irish (75%) and 4th generation Spanish. When asked of my ethnicity I call myself Irish, but I don't feel I have any true ties there. I in no way consider myself Spanish beyond a handful of blood and genes. In reality, I'm American. I've got a bit of an Irish connection but enough of a one that I walk up to the Irish immigrants who live all around me and call myself Irish? No. We're a very different type of "Irish" in my mind, but that's a personal thing.
Again, I have no idea what a Dominican is. Is it someone born in the DR? Someone raised there? Someone with parents there who visited regularly? Someone with blood ties but no true personal connection? 3rd generation? I have no idea. That's probably up to the individual and I have no idea how to set a real idea on it. I never meant to argue that A-Rod is or isn't Dominican. But Guillen did. And honestly his opinions strike me as no more controversial than those of the fans who say that Nomar isn't Mexican or Piazza isn't Italian. Its different degrees and different sides but its all the same basic idea. What determines someones ethnic identity? I have no idea.
I don't mean to skip the other elements of your post, I just think they'll be addressed below.
Uhh, actually he said A-Rod wasn't Dominican AT ALL (which is even worse)! "Alex was kissing Latino people's (butts)," Guillen, who's from Venezuela, said in the most recent issue of Sports Illustrated. "He knew he wasn't going to play for the Dominicans; he's not a Dominican!"
So you try to dismiss the comparison to NAACP guy saying McNabb's not "black enough", then say this ARod thing is no big deal because Ozzie just doesn't believe ARod is "Dominican in any true way" (your words). Please do tell me what allows someone to be a Dominican, or any other ethnicity/race in a "true way".
Ozzie NEVER said that A-Rod wasn't Domincan because he didn't act in a certain way. That's a clear problem with people who say "so-and-so isn't black enough." Ozzie flat out said A-Rod isn't Dominican because he's not Dominican. Rather, in Ozzie's mind, he's an American. How fair is that? I have no idea. Again, I said that Ozzie's comments were obnoxious and rude and at best debatable (and at worst flat out wrong). But the nature of his arguement is completely different than the McNabb/NAACP example given. McNabb is CLEARLY black. By saying he's "not black enough" its clearly creating an idea of how blacks act or are supposed to be. Because McNabb didn't live up to the standard held he somehow wasn't black enough. Its silly and at best borderline racist. But its a completely different dynamic than Guillen's statement.
Guillen's claim that A-Rod isn't Dominican is clearly about him thinking that simple citizenship isn't true cultural identity. I'm in no way saying that you have to agree. I don't know if I agree (in reality, I don't think I care). But its not racism. It seems like more of an objection to methods used by countries to determine citizenship, of people to consider nationality, and of the WBC to consider eligibility. Its not him saying "A-Rod's not hispanic enough."
And please let me say this... Guillen HAS made racist comments in the past. Or at least ones that can be easily be interpreted as such. When he went off on Magglio Ordonez he made a number of comments that rubbed me the wrong way in terms of race. But these did not. They rubbed me the wrong way for a couple of reasons but racism was not one of them and I fail to see how it can be.
Ozzie was apparently very proud of his new American citizenship. Ozzie then snubs the White House visit. I don't care if you hate Bush & Cheney and want them dead, it's not about politics. It's an honor as World Champions to visit. But I don't even think he skipped out to snub Bush, I think he just said screw it because he's ignorant. It's almost similar to not voting. No one said he was required to go...but as leader of the World Champions, why would ignore the responsibility to go and meet and accept congratulations from the leader of your new country? Anyway what I'm trying to say is that the issue of Guillen's citizenry does matter for argument's sake - if we were using his stupid logic, we could say well Ozzie YOU'RE the hypocrite. You're not, to use your term, "American in a true way".
I really don't grasp the logic of this. And I really don't mean that in a rude way, maybe its just too late for me to.
Did Ozzie at any point of that say "I'm an American just like A-Rod and that's all we are"? I'm not sure what attacking Ozzie's idea of American citizenry has to do with his attack on A-Rod's Dominican citizenry, beyond a really random idea. What's more, the idea of A-Rod's dual citizenship being compared to Guillen's dual citizenship strikes me as completely inapt since they have a completely different nature.
I also have no idea why him choosing not to go to the White House invalidates his citizenry in any way. If I didn't vote does that make me less of an American? Do I agree with his decision? In all honesty, I don't care. I don't think it matters in the least and I didn't even know about it until this thread. I just read in the ESPN article on Ozzie apologizing for the A-Rod comments was that the reason he didn't go was because he was on vacation with his family but families weren't allowed to come. Would I have made the decision he did? I have no idea. I don't think it matters. Imposing some random acts on the citizenry of a country to validate them strikes me as ridiculous. And for what its worth, if I wanted Bush and Cheney dead (which I don't and I don't know if Guillen does) I probably wouldn't go to the White House and shake their hands. It strikes me as hypocritical and disingenous to do so considering such strong feelings. I generally abide by a "live and let live" attitude but I also don't believe in shaking a man's hand and talking behind his back the next moment.
I just fail to see where the hypocrisy lies. If anything, if we're going to suppose a lot of things I'd think it would be that despite his American citizenry that Guillen has shown a loyalty to his Venezuelan nationality by his refusal to partake in activites that he apparently should have done as an American. That seems to lie consistent with the idea that A-Rod is American because that's where the majority of his life has been held. I don't think this level of supposition is fair, but if we're going to do it it strikes me as the most logical path. How Guillen failing to validate the citizenry of the country not of his origin differs from him claiming that A-Rod doesn't hold any true citizenry to the country not of his origin loses me.
He's very late and I'm very tired so if I screwed something up here I apologize. I also apologize if any part of this comes off rude. I meant no rudeness but again the hour may have left me short with my writing (as hard as that is to believe) and thus short in tone.
Panamaniac42
02-18-06, 10:41 AM
Ozzie NEVER said that A-Rod wasn't Domincan because he didn't act in a certain way. That's a clear problem with people who say "so-and-so isn't black enough." Ozzie flat out said A-Rod isn't Dominican because he's not Dominican. Rather, in Ozzie's mind, he's an American. How fair is that? I have no idea. That's not fair at all, in fact it's ludicrous.
.... But the nature of his arguement is completely different than the McNabb/NAACP example given. McNabb is CLEARLY black. And ARod is CLEARLY Dominican AND CLEARLY a Latino. Ozzie not only questioned his being Dominican but being hispanic at all. As he said "ARod was kissing Latino people's asses".
By saying he's "not black enough" its clearly creating an idea of how blacks act or are supposed to be. Because McNabb didn't live up to the standard held he somehow wasn't black enough. Its silly and at best borderline racist. But its a completely different dynamic than Guillen's statement.
"By saying he's "not Dominican" its clearly creating an idea of how Dominicans act or are supposed to be." You keep trying to say its not comparable to the McNabb crap but you're not backing it up.
Also I had already said in a previous post I should not have said racism but I used it for lack of a better term. I said I should have just called Ozzie an ignorance piece of sh*t.
I also have no idea why him choosing not to go to the White House invalidates his citizenry in any way. If I didn't vote does that make me less of an American? If you had read what I wrote I said that he's a hypocrite because if we were to use HIS stupid way of thinking for argument's sake, yes we could accuse him of not being a true American (though I would not be so ignorant as to do that).
Anyway that's that, I've had enough of this garbage.
Ozzie is a f*cking idiot "in a true way" as you say.
CoyoteYankee
02-18-06, 10:50 AM
What is the definition of being "a Dominican" to me? I have no idea. I'm an Irish-Spanish American. 3rd generation Irish (75%) and 4th generation Spanish. When asked of my ethnicity I call myself Irish, but I don't feel I have any true ties there. I in no way consider myself Spanish beyond a handful of blood and genes. In reality, I'm American. I've got a bit of an Irish connection but enough of a one that I walk up to the Irish immigrants who live all around me and call myself Irish? No. We're a very different type of "Irish" in my mind, but that's a personal thing.
Again, I have no idea what a Dominican is. Is it someone born in the DR? Someone raised there? Someone with parents there who visited regularly? Someone with blood ties but no true personal connection? 3rd generation? I have no idea. That's probably up to the individual and I have no idea how to set a real idea on it. I never meant to argue that A-Rod is or isn't Dominican. But Guillen did. And honestly his opinions strike me as no more controversial than those of the fans who say that Nomar isn't Mexican or Piazza isn't Italian. Its different degrees and different sides but its all the same basic idea. What determines someones ethnic identity? I have no idea.
I don't mean to skip the other elements of your post, I just think they'll be addressed below.
Ozzie NEVER said that A-Rod wasn't Domincan because he didn't act in a certain way. That's a clear problem with people who say "so-and-so isn't black enough." Ozzie flat out said A-Rod isn't Dominican because he's not Dominican. Rather, in Ozzie's mind, he's an American. How fair is that? I have no idea. Again, I said that Ozzie's comments were obnoxious and rude and at best debatable (and at worst flat out wrong). But the nature of his arguement is completely different than the McNabb/NAACP example given. McNabb is CLEARLY black. By saying he's "not black enough" its clearly creating an idea of how blacks act or are supposed to be. Because McNabb didn't live up to the standard held he somehow wasn't black enough. Its silly and at best borderline racist. But its a completely different dynamic than Guillen's statement.
Guillen's claim that A-Rod isn't Dominican is clearly about him thinking that simple citizenship isn't true cultural identity. I'm in no way saying that you have to agree. I don't know if I agree (in reality, I don't think I care). But its not racism. It seems like more of an objection to methods used by countries to determine citizenship, of people to consider nationality, and of the WBC to consider eligibility. Its not him saying "A-Rod's not hispanic enough."
Sorry but I don't buy it. Who is Ozzie to say that A-Rod isn't Dominican? In my opinion, he was trying to be insulting and using race to do it. A-Rod's full heritage is Dominican, he lived there for four years and he is a dual citizen there. I'm thinking about it as if I went up to one of my best friends who is of Cuban descent but was born here in America and telling her that she isn't Cuban. It's just not right and she would be insulted. Your heritage is not just defined by where you are born. It isn't just about "simple citizenship" but it is about your blood too. Again, I said it isn't racism, but it is an insult and I believe that he meant it as such and he had no place to say it.
Panamaniac42
02-18-06, 10:54 AM
n all honesty, I don't care. I don't think it matters in the least and I didn't even know about it until this thread.
P.S., you're yet another one of these people that says "blah blah blah I don't even care, it doesn't matter, blah blah blah" yet you're the one who wants to start debating people on their opinions about it. When you started off writing a damn book about it, obviously you care.
LuckyLopez
02-18-06, 02:18 PM
That's not fair at all, in fact it's ludicrous.
And ARod is CLEARLY Dominican AND CLEARLY a Latino. Ozzie not only questioned his being Dominican but being hispanic at all. As he said "ARod was kissing Latino people's asses".
"By saying he's "not Dominican" its clearly creating an idea of how Dominicans act or are supposed to be." You keep trying to say its not comparable to the McNabb crap but you're not backing it up.
Then by all means let me try to back it up. The NCAAP thing (or whenever ANYWAY says something like that) is an issue of behavior and public image. Some people see certain people as more or less "black" than others. But Guillen at no point of his two statements seemed to suggest that he felt A-Rod wasn't Dominican due to his behavior or image. He simply felt that he wasn't a Dominican in the same way that you can believe I'm not an Irish man. Now from a purely technical standpoint Guillen is obviouslly wrong. A-Rod holds citizenship in the DR and this is a Dominican in that regard. The issue seems to be that Guillen doesn't think that means a lot. I guess the comparison I would go for would be if a politican traveled to a foreign country and was awarded citizenship of that place. Is he then a "true" Italian or German or Dominican or whatever it is? From a simple standpoint of citizenship, yes, he is. But obviouslly some people are going to not really buy into that as anything more than a piece of paper and some politics. It struck me that Guillen just felt that A-Rod was Dominican only through his parents and some technical citizenry. He never offered up that A-Rod had to dress, act, or speak a certain way in order to become more Dominican. I would have guessed that if pressed Guillen was asked what would make A-Rod "truely" Dominican he'd essentially say that an extended period living there as an adult would.
That's the way I interpretted it and the difference I see between McNabb/NAACP and this. The NAACP argued that McNabb's personality and behavior made him less black. Most importantly they weren't adressing any realistic body or citizenry. By genetics McNabb simply is black. There's no country of "blacks" that he holds citizenry to but (in the NCAAP's mind) doesn't have enough connection to. They weren't arguing that he wasn't "afrocentric" enough. Guillen argued that A-Rod simply isn't Dominican in terms of a nationality, rather than a race.
Also I had already said in a previous post I should not have said racism but I used it for lack of a better term. I said I should have just called Ozzie an ignorance piece of sh*t.
That's fair and I apologize for not acknowledging that in that mess of a post I made. I still think there's a simple semantic difference between Ozzie/A-Rod, McNabb/NCAAP, and Ozzie/White House but obviouslly the issue that first bugged me has been resolved.
If you had read what I wrote I said that he's a hypocrite because if we were to use HIS stupid way of thinking for argument's sake, yes we could accuse him of not being a true American (though I would not be so ignorant as to do that).
I think that taking his (not all that clearly defined) method of determining A-Rod wasn't Dominican you could maybe argue that Guillen isn't American because it isn't the country of his birth nor where he was raised. That being said Guillen's spent 20+ years living and working in the US for a large part of the year so I think by that he'd hold some claim to being an American. I'm of the opinion that Guillen's reason for not believe A-Rod Dominican is because he never spent a significant portion of his life living in the country, whereas Guillen has spent a significant part of his life living in America (20+ years working as an adult obviouslly being different than 4 years as a young child). But Guillen never expanded on his "he's not a Dominican" quote so we don't have a great way of knowing. I'm just making suppositions as you are. But I fail to see how the White House incident factors in. If A-Rod had failed to participate in some specific Dominican activity that he felt made him not a Dominican, then I'd see it as relevant. Otherwise, it just seems like a needless shot at him (which seemed to be compounded by another needless shot in the "ignorant" thing when the article I read said that he didn't do it out of political reason but rather personal, family reasons).
Ozzie is a f*cking idiot "in a true way" as you say.
Which - seemingly snide comment aside - I have no problem with. I'm not much of a fan of going after folks but I can 100% understand anyone who read Guillen's quotes and felt him a "f*cking idiot" for them. It was the "racist" thing that bugged me and even though that's off the table now there were obviouslly other subjects that grew out of it.
Sorry but I don't buy it. Who is Ozzie to say that A-Rod isn't Dominican? In my opinion, he was trying to be insulting and using race to do it. A-Rod's full heritage is Dominican, he lived there for four years and he is a dual citizen there. I'm thinking about it as if I went up to one of my best friends who is of Cuban descent but was born here in America and telling her that she isn't Cuban. It's just not right and she would be insulted. Your heritage is not just defined by where you are born. It isn't just about "simple citizenship" but it is about your blood too. Again, I said it isn't racism, but it is an insult and I believe that he meant it as such and he had no place to say it.
I guess my point is that there's a difference between if you walked up to your friend and said she wasn't Cuban or that she wasn't A Cuban. One has to do with race and ethnicity and one more nationality. Maybe its not enough of an issue for some people because I think its a matter of personal identity and decision. To make the extreme example of this point I again point to Piazza and Nomar. Is Piazza's inclusion on the Italian team a realistically acceptable thing? Lots of people don't think so. He's certainly Italian by heritage and blood, but he is not by nationality. Now A-Rod IS Dominican by nationality which is what makes Ozzie's arguement different and potentially baseless. But I think some people would probably consider it relatively meaningless if you spent a short period of your childhood in a country as far as forging your ethnic identity. Others would disagree and I don't think there's a simple "truth" on the subject. But, again, from a personal standpoint (which I think is all I can speak on with great knowledge) I consider myself "Irish" but in a very different way than the immigrant Irish I know. Regretably I don't hold citizenship in a country I spent only a very short part of my life in so that's as close as I can get to A-Rod's decision.
I do agree that it was an insult, a baseless one, and something he shouldn't have publicly said. His public apology probably verifies that he agrees in retrospect. So I think everyone in the world is in agreement on the idea that Ozzie should have not said it. And at the very least, in terms of the WBC I disagree with Ozzie because if Piazza plays for Italy or Nomar considered playing for Mexico than I certainly have no problem with A-Rod considering playing for the DR. He's got a much better claim than them. But in Guillen's defense he DID criticize Nomar as well and probably would have done the same for Piazza had it come up.
P.S., you're yet another one of these people that says "blah blah blah I don't even care, it doesn't matter, blah blah blah" yet you're the one who wants to start debating people on their opinions about it. When you started off writing a damn book about it, obviously you care.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't care about Ozzie's comment or the A-Rod/WBC controversy. Its largely a non-issue to me insofar as it doesn't in anyway affect my option of Guillen or A-Rod. What I clearly did care about was some of the accusations tossed at Guillen. I had a couple of other debates on this subject in the other thread. Guillen said a stupid thing but he then got nailed with a bunch of attacks that I felt were baseless. On the absolute lowest end of the scale its folks saying "he's a homo" or "you're a fluke" but then there were also things that weren't as bad but obviouslly caught my attention like the idea in the other thread that he was a coward afraid of A-Rod or your racism claim. Which you've obviouslly recanted and that's fair. But that's what I cared enough about to start up a debate (that in all honesty probably became more than either of us wanted it to be).
I (for the most part) don't care what players and managers say to each other. They're grown men and they can deal with it amongst themselves. But I do sometimes care about the claims fans make towards opposing players, managers, and fans in the defense of their team. Maybe that's just because as part of the fanbase or part of this community I feel closer to them.
The length of my post is simply my nature. If it bugged you, I apologize. I write too much on most every subject.
hellonewman
02-18-06, 02:34 PM
Uh-oh, the Battle of the Bigmouths has been joined:
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/wire/sns-ap-bba-steinbrenner-guillen,1,6471242.story?coll=sns-ap-baseball-news
"George Steinbrenner wants Ozzie Guillen to zip his lips. The New York Yankees owner didn't appreciate a shot the Chicago White Sox manager took at Alex Rodriguez, remarks Guillen later apologized for."
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-18-06, 02:42 PM
P.S., you're yet another one of these people that says "blah blah blah I don't even care, it doesn't matter, blah blah blah" yet you're the one who wants to start debating people on their opinions about it. When you started off writing a damn book about it, obviously you care.
Advertised ignorance is always amuing. :lol:
Snap731
02-18-06, 03:48 PM
I don't think that Ozzie is a racist but I think there is a definite comparison between saying someone isn't "black enough" and saying that someone "isn't a Dominican" when that clearly is their heritage. A black person can't change the fact that they're black (unless they are Michael Jackson) and a Dominican person can't change the fact that they are Dominican. However, the person saying these things about another is clearly indicating that blacks and Dominicans need to behave in certain ways in order to be "real" blacks or Dominicans. Let me ask you one thing, what is the definition of being a Dominican in a "true way"?
I'm glad you brought this up because you articulated it well and I wasn't really sure HOW to but I wanted to say this too.
I wanted to say that comments like Ozzie's really can hurt someone like A-Rod. I'm like A-Rod in that I'm a first generation American and it REALLY stings when someone from your own race/nationality says something like that about you. Know why? 'Cause I think all of us wonder if it might be the truth, even though intellectually we know there's no such thing as being (insert race here) "enough".
But at the same time, we all know from experience that there's a certain segment of Americans out there who will NEVER accept us as true Americans b/c we're minorities, we have 'foreign' sounding names or whatever. So the result is we don't know where to turn because EVERYONE makes us feel like crap just for being who we are. And it can make you feel very alone and very afraid. And 25 million bucks a year can't fix that.
That said, I like Ozzie Guillen and his shoot from the hip style. And he's obviously a hell of a manager. But I hope he understands how much pain saying stuff like that can cause. I think SOMEONE must have said something to him because he did apologize.
Jersey Yankee
02-18-06, 04:14 PM
A-Rod is an American. What does this guy not understand about that?
Pride for your country is fine, I have no issue. Buf if you're gonna take it this far, if you love your home country more then you love it here, go the hell home.
Ozzie's trying to tell other Hispanics what they should be doing. Everyone has their own freedom of choice. Who needs some a-hole trying to speak for others when they can speak for themselves?
I hope that the Cubs retake ChiTown and that KC ends up higher on the standings than do the Pale Hose.
Panamaniac42
02-18-06, 05:53 PM
Advertised ignorance is always amuing. :lol:
Well look who crawled out of the woodwork...I find it to be very "amuing" that you have no response otherwise to me and others. You've done an outstanding job using this thread to get your post count up. Bravo.
CoyoteYankee
02-19-06, 01:00 AM
I guess my point is that there's a difference between if you walked up to your friend and said she wasn't Cuban or that she wasn't A Cuban. One has to do with race and ethnicity and one more nationality. Maybe its not enough of an issue for some people because I think its a matter of personal identity and decision. To make the extreme example of this point I again point to Piazza and Nomar. Is Piazza's inclusion on the Italian team a realistically acceptable thing? Lots of people don't think so. He's certainly Italian by heritage and blood, but he is not by nationality. Now A-Rod IS Dominican by nationality which is what makes Ozzie's arguement different and potentially baseless. But I think some people would probably consider it relatively meaningless if you spent a short period of your childhood in a country as far as forging your ethnic identity. Others would disagree and I don't think there's a simple "truth" on the subject. But, again, from a personal standpoint (which I think is all I can speak on with great knowledge) I consider myself "Irish" but in a very different way than the immigrant Irish I know. Regretably I don't hold citizenship in a country I spent only a very short part of my life in so that's as close as I can get to A-Rod's decision.
I do agree that it was an insult, a baseless one, and something he shouldn't have publicly said. His public apology probably verifies that he agrees in retrospect. So I think everyone in the world is in agreement on the idea that Ozzie should have not said it. And at the very least, in terms of the WBC I disagree with Ozzie because if Piazza plays for Italy or Nomar considered playing for Mexico than I certainly have no problem with A-Rod considering playing for the DR. He's got a much better claim than them. But in Guillen's defense he DID criticize Nomar as well and probably would have done the same for Piazza had it come up.
Well I think we are kind of saying the same thing but I guess I just took more offense by it than you.
LuckyLopez
02-19-06, 10:45 PM
That's fair. If I didn't take offense its probably just that I feel detached from it. I see the reasons to be offended/annoyed.
ChocolateGirl
02-20-06, 02:03 AM
Ozzie was apparently very proud of his new American citizenship. Ozzie then snubs the White House visit. I don't care if you hate Bush & Cheney and want them dead, it's not about politics. It's an honor as World Champions to visit. But I don't even think he skipped out to snub Bush, I think he just said screw it because he's ignorant. It's almost similar to not voting. No one said he was required to go...but as leader of the World Champions, why would ignore the responsibility to go and meet and accept congratulations from the leader of your new country?
Wow Ozzie didn't go to tht White House with his team to be congradulated? He MANAGED A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. On top of that, he was just recently granted American citizenship? What an A$$. :o Bush haters would not even pass up the opportunity to meet with Bush. :uhh:
Snap731
02-20-06, 07:50 PM
Bush haters would not even pass up the opportunity to meet with Bush. :uhh:
Speak for yourself ;)
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