View Full Version : Lineup Projections
yankeefan24
01-19-06, 03:33 PM
Damon 310-10-80
Jeter 320-20-80
Arod 315-50-135
Giambi 285-30-110
sheff 290-33-110
MAtsui 300-30-110
Posada 270-20-90
Cano 300-18-80
Williams 250-10-60
Jeter 315-20-90
Damon 310-15-80
Arod 320-50-140
Giambi 302-30-115
Sheff 290-33-105
Matsui 300-28-115
Posada 265-20-80
Cano 300-15-85
Williams 300*-20-65
*yup--he'll be rested :)
TheInfallibleOne
01-19-06, 03:44 PM
just a thought, by swtching damon and jeter u get that nice LRLR thing going on. even tho ppl like damon as a leadoff hitter better. u never kno how these things will work out. i say try both and see who scores more runs for u. so my alternative would be this
Jeter R
Damon L
A-Rod R
Giambi L
Sheff R
Matsui L
JoPO S
Cano L
Bernie S
JeterRodriguezSheff
01-19-06, 03:48 PM
Damon .300/.370/.440
Jeter .310/.385/.460
Arod .300/.400/.580
Giambi .275/.430/.530
sheff .280/.375/.510
MAtsui .300/.370/.490
Posada .260/.340/.430
Cano .310/.335/.465
Williams .230/.310/.330
just a thought, by swtching damon and jeter u get that nice LRLR thing going on. even tho ppl like damon as a leadoff hitter better. u never kno how these things will work out. i say try both and see who scores more runs for u. so my alternative would be this
Jeter R
Damon L
A-Rod R
Giambi L
Sheff R
Matsui L
JoPO S
Cano L
Bernie S
I agree....which is why I switched the top of the list :)
SoCal Pinstriper
01-19-06, 04:13 PM
I smell another "Damon/Jeter, who should bat leadoff?" thread, and I'm looking forward to an invigorating debate full of fresh arguments.
JeterRodriguezSheff
01-19-06, 04:17 PM
It really doesnt matter either way but Jeter is a better leadoff hitter as his career OBP is about 40 points higher than Damon's career OBP.
I hope we get somebody to replace Bernies awful bat in the lineup, he is the only blackhole.
brosiusbuddy
01-19-06, 04:26 PM
I'm not going to post a lineup because that can get a little redundant and no one would notice the main point that I would make. And that is that Cano SHOULD NOT bat ninth. He has already shown he has the ability to drive the ball so I'd want him ahead of Posada and bernie or whoever the other guy is at the bottom. It gives him RBI potential and would be a confidence boost over batting down at the bottom. Posada should hit 8th, and bernie/phillips/crosby, whoever ninth
YankClipper5
01-19-06, 04:28 PM
It really doesnt matter either way but Jeter is a better leadoff hitter as his career OBP is about 40 points higher than Damon's career OBP.
I hope we get somebody to replace Bernies awful bat in the lineup, he is the only blackhole.
While I believe a remote possibility remains that Bernie can bring his bat up substantially with a reduced role, I agree on that. I think the big thing with Damon ahead of Jeter lies in that Jeter probably has a power edge as well as the fact the his opposite field slaps will suit well to the team if Damon gets on base consistantly. We'll see, as I suppose only time will tell.
Damon .300/.370/.440
Jeter .310/.385/.460
Arod .300/.400/.580
Giambi .275/.430/.530
sheff .280/.375/.510
MAtsui .300/.370/.490
Posada .260/.340/.430
Cano .310/.335/.465
Williams .230/.310/.330
There is no way in heck that Williams stays as the regular DH with those kinds of numbers!! And don't tell me about Torre's loyalty. Way too much is made of that around here. Torre will not play Bernie if he hits like that. Even Bubba can do that well providing much better defense in RF for Shef. And even Phillips can do better.
I think Bernie will hit considerably better than that. I know that you think he is totally washed up. I hope that you hope that I am right and you are wrong -- that your feelings about him are not personal in any way. I also hope that you can acknowledge that you might be wrong, as we all can be.
But I think that he will not be the regular DH even with much better numbers, better than Phillips. The Yanks will make a move for another every day player, if not in spring training, then in the first part of the season.
brosiusbuddy
01-19-06, 04:44 PM
It really doesnt matter either way but Jeter is a better leadoff hitter as his career OBP is about 40 points higher than Damon's career OBP.
I hope we get somebody to replace Bernies awful bat in the lineup, he is the only blackhole.
While Jeter's numbers are better than Damons, Jeter is interchangeable at 1 or 2. Damon on the other hand is still a good leadoff and is more comfortable in the number 1 spot. So we could have Damon comfortably in the 1 hole and Jeter comfortably in the 2 hole with 2 good, speedy hitters setting the table for our sluggers. OR we could have a comfortable jeter in the one hole and an unhappy, uncomfortable damon in the 2 hole.
damon, jeter in the 1,2 spots is fine with me.
JeterRodriguezSheff
01-19-06, 04:51 PM
There is no way in heck that Williams stays as the regular DH with those kinds of numbers!! And don't tell me about Torre's loyalty. Way too much is made of that around here. Torre will not play Bernie if he hits like that. Even Bubba can do that well providing much better defense in RF for Shef. And even Phillips can do better.
I think Bernie will hit considerably better than that. I know that you think he is totally washed up. I hope that you hope that I am right and you are wrong -- that your feelings about him are not personal in any way. I also hope that you can acknowledge that you might be wrong, as we all can be.
But I think that he will not be the regular DH even with much better numbers, better than Phillips. The Yanks will make a move for another every day player, if not in spring training, then in the first part of the season.
Trust me I am hoping for some miracle come back by him too, but those numbers are only slightly worse than his 2005 numbers. He is a nother year older and he will likely get worse not better.
JeterRodriguezSheff
01-19-06, 04:52 PM
While Jeter's numbers are better than Damons, Jeter is interchangeable at 1 or 2. Damon on the other hand is still a good leadoff and is more comfortable in the number 1 spot. So we could have Damon comfortably in the 1 hole and Jeter comfortably in the 2 hole with 2 good, speedy hitters setting the table for our sluggers. OR we could have a comfortable jeter in the one hole and an unhappy, uncomfortable damon in the 2 hole.
damon, jeter in the 1,2 spots is fine with me.
I dont disagree with that. In my post I said that Jeter was the better leadoff hitter of the two. However I think Damon leading off and Jeter hitting second is better than the other way around.
nyg02005
01-19-06, 05:11 PM
Damon, Jeter, AROD, SHEFF, Giambi and Matsui can hit lefty or righty if they are on top of their game so I do not worry about the matchup. The most important to me is to make Damon comfortable especially on his first yr.
PinstripePride
01-19-06, 05:19 PM
Williams 300*-20-65
*yup--he'll be rested :)
:uhh: Hope you're right...
Damon .305-15-80
Jeter .315-18 -80
Arod .320-50-140
Giambi .285-30-100
Sheff .285-30-115
Matsui .300-25-115
Posada .255-18-70
Cano .290-15-75
Bernie .250-18-65
CaptainThurman
01-19-06, 05:22 PM
Not to get off subject, a little, but I love how the AL has completely redefined the no. 2 and no. 9 slots in the batting order.
No. 2 is now almost an RBI slot, with guys like Jeter, Robby Alomar about 10 years ago, Melvin Mora of the O's, Michael Young of the Rangers, Darrin Erstad of the Angels, etc. etc. etc. all having the no. 9 and no. 1 hitters ahead of them and often on base.
No. 9 is like second lead-off, with somebody who has wheels getting on base ahead of the leadoff hitter, creating all kinds of run-and-hit opportunities. With a guy like Damon looking at 8 or 9 pitches every at bat, this could get exciting.
surge511
01-19-06, 05:33 PM
No matter how you cut it, it should be an exciting season. Damon adds a whole new dimension to the offense we haven't seen for a few years. Damon and Jeter should have fun at the top, with the big boppers following in the next 4 slots. Also, the lineup is no longer as top heavy, with Cano moving to the bottom of the lineup. And, Cano almost definitely will start the season #9.
I dont make # projections:
Damon
Jeter
Arod
Giambi
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Bernie
Cano
genius-24
01-19-06, 05:46 PM
Damon-.305-.365-13
Jeet- .305-.380-16
ARod- .318-.410-45
Sheff- .300-.400-33
Giambi- .285-.410-35
Matsui- .295-.370-30
Posada- .275-.365-22
Bernie- .275-.350-20 ;)
Cano- .280-.335-20
I think bernie will have better year this year b/c he is mostly DHing. Last year i think he hit about .295 with good OBP when he was DH.
jbauer2485
01-19-06, 05:55 PM
Damon .291-20-80
Jeter .310-15 -90
Arod .315-40-140
Giambi .279-35-95
Sheff .290-30-100
Matsui .305-25-120
Posada .240-19-65
Cano .285-15-70
Bernie .270-15-70
genius-24
01-19-06, 06:04 PM
Damon .291-20-80
Jeter .310-15 -90
Arod .315-40-140
Giambi .279-35-95
Sheff .290-30-100
Matsui .305-25-120
Posada .240-19-65
Cano .285-15-70
Bernie .270-15-70
Wow,
What up with posada's avg? dont forget this is his last year of contract.
Also, why does sheff have 100 Rbi and matsui 120, when sheff is hitting 5th with better avg in RISP while matsui is hitting 6th with much lesser avg in RISP in last year?
mickey mantle
01-19-06, 06:11 PM
Remember, Jeter's average and OBP were higher than Knoblauch's when Chuck led off, and that worked out fine.
Remember, Jeter's average and OBP were higher than Knoblauch's when Chuck led off, and that worked out fine.
That is a great point. :)
SINCE77 2
01-19-06, 06:24 PM
Damon- 10HR
Jeter- 20HR
Giambi- 35HR
Arod- 45HR
Matsui- 30HR
Sheff- 35HR
Cano- 20HR
Posada- 20HR
Bernie/Phillips- 25HR collectively
I like this lineup myself. LRL all the way to #7 then 2 SH to round it out. Giambi in the 3 hole will provide plenty of RBI opportunities for hitters 4-6. A 7-9 of Cano/Posada/Phillips/Bernie is by no means a worldbeater, but it is at least equal in quality, if not experience to any other team that matters.
Nettles 9
01-19-06, 07:31 PM
There is no way in heck that Williams stays as the regular DH with those kinds of numbers!! And don't tell me about Torre's loyalty. Way too much is made of that around here. Torre will not play Bernie if he hits like that. Even Bubba can do that well providing much better defense in RF for Shef. And even Phillips can do better.
I think Bernie will hit considerably better than that. I know that you think he is totally washed up. I hope that you hope that I am right and you are wrong -- that your feelings about him are not personal in any way. I also hope that you can acknowledge that you might be wrong, as we all can be.
But I think that he will not be the regular DH even with much better numbers, better than Phillips. The Yanks will make a move for another every day player, if not in spring training, then in the first part of the season.
I think it seemed like Bernie was hurt last year. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but part of me thinks/hopes that he might get healthy and do better this year. I dont' think the Yanks would have signed him if he was DONE done. It makes me think he might have been hurt, but they expect him to get better this year. They certainly know more about his health status than us.
But they may only have signed him because he is relatively cheap. Maybe watching him from a rookie has effected my feelings, but I am pulling for him.
the_coach
01-19-06, 07:40 PM
Damon .300-10-70
Jeter .315-18 -80
Arod .320-40-110
Giambi .245-25-85
Sheff .285-25-95
Matsui .300-25-115
Posada .235-15-70
Cano .290-20-80
Bernie .230-12-50
Not my batting order, but a more realistic prediction.
StaceyRosie
01-19-06, 07:43 PM
Oh please
Matsui55
01-19-06, 07:47 PM
Damon .291-20-80
Jeter .310-15 -90
Arod .315-40-140
Giambi .279-35-95
Sheff .290-30-100
Matsui .305-25-120
Posada .240-19-65
Cano .285-15-70
Bernie .270-15-70
Based on Joe's deep devotion to "balanced lineups" and his theories on situational hitting, I'd guess at a lineup (on most days) like this:
Damon .290 17 70
Jeter .310 21 90
Matsui .302 30 120
ARod .315 45 140
Giambi .280 35 120
Sheff .310 28 120
Posada .260 20 90
Cano .280 12 75
Bernie .250 15 70
It could be argued that Giambi should hit third, with Matsui 5th, but I think that Joe will be expecting to see Damon and maybe Jeter too in a lot of scoring situations, and wants the guy focused on getting the run home over the guy focused on the HR. Having ARod behind him would likely guarantee good pitches to hit for Matsui as well, as it does no good to pitch around Matsui to get to ARod.
Furthermore, by having Giambi in the middle of the lineup, with his regular .420+OBP, it extends more innings, and gives guys like Sheffield and Posada more chances at RBIs. Finally, by batting Bernie 9th, you keep the plodders away from Damon and Jeter. Matsui is no speedster, but next to Jeter, is the Yanks next smartest baserunner, which should prvent him from hindering ARod on the bases. Stacking Giambi, Sheff and Posada will likely result in a lot of double plays, but they won't slow the rest of the team there either.
Crosby18
01-19-06, 08:15 PM
Damon
Jeter
A-rod
Matsui
Sheff
Giambi
Posada
Bernie
Cano
jbauer2485
01-19-06, 08:17 PM
Wow,
What up with posada's avg? dont forget this is his last year of contract.
Also, why does sheff have 100 Rbi and matsui 120, when sheff is hitting 5th with better avg in RISP while matsui is hitting 6th with much lesser avg in RISP in last year?
Sorry, I didn't really base my decisions firmly on the actual lineup order. I just copied and pasted the order from a previous post.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
01-19-06, 08:25 PM
Based on Joe's deep devotion to "balanced lineups" and his theories on situational hitting, I'd guess at a lineup (on most days) like this:
Damon .290 17 70
Jeter .310 21 90
Matsui .302 30 120
ARod .315 45 140
Giambi .280 35 120
Sheff .310 28 120
Posada .260 20 90
Cano .280 12 75
Bernie .250 15 70
It could be argued that Giambi should hit third, with Matsui 5th, but I think that Joe will be expecting to see Damon and maybe Jeter too in a lot of scoring situations, and wants the guy focused on getting the run home over the guy focused on the HR. Having ARod behind him would likely guarantee good pitches to hit for Matsui as well, as it does no good to pitch around Matsui to get to ARod.
Furthermore, by having Giambi in the middle of the lineup, with his regular .420+OBP, it extends more innings, and gives guys like Sheffield and Posada more chances at RBIs. Finally, by batting Bernie 9th, you keep the plodders away from Damon and Jeter. Matsui is no speedster, but next to Jeter, is the Yanks next smartest baserunner, which should prvent him from hindering ARod on the bases. Stacking Giambi, Sheff and Posada will likely result in a lot of double plays, but they won't slow the rest of the team there either.
I don't think Balance is more important to Joe than assembling the best lineup possible. Matsui doesn't get on as much, or have as much power as Sheff and Giambi, and given his splits versus lefties and righties he is more like a right handed hitter than left handed hitter. I'd go
1)Damon
2)Jeter
3)A-Rod
4)Giambi
5)Sheffield
6)Matsui
7)Posada
8)Cano
9)Bernie/Phillips/Thompson(Bubba wouldn't be on the team if i was constructing it)
Jeter is a better leadoff hitter than Damon, but hits in the .320s when he has a real leadoff hitter infront of him. I'd probably prefer Cano 7th and Posada 8th, but Cano would have to prove he can repeat last years gap swing and improve his obp.
The Comic Book Guy
01-19-06, 09:17 PM
Player BA / OBP / 2B-3B-HR / RBI
Damon .300 / .375 / 35-5-13 / 75
Jeter .310 / .390 / 30-3-21 / 75
Rodriguez .300 / .395 / 30-2-42 / 125
Giambi .280 / .435 / 25-0-34 / 100
Sheffield .275 / .375 / 25-0-32 / 100
Matsui .300 / .370 / 40-2-24 / 100
Cano .300 / .335 / 40-5-19 / 85
Posada .260 / .350 / 25-0-17 / 65
Williams .260 / .350 / 25-0-15 / 60
I think that these are fairly reasonable expectations, though Posada and Bernie's projections are maybe a bit too optimistic. I'm not sure how much those two have left in the tank.
I'd really like to see us a find someone who can move Sheff out of RF, as I think Gary could put up tremendous numbers DHing full time.
keithf1
01-19-06, 09:45 PM
Big year for Jeter this year. Watch.
Rafael Rafic
01-19-06, 09:55 PM
For me the better Yankees' line-up is:
Damon
Jeter
Sheffield (he batted well in the 3rd position)
A-rod (the big slugger have to be the clean-up)
Giambi (protected A-rod very well)
Matsui
Posada
Williams
Cano (in order don't stop Damon and Jeter)
SubwayFanatic
01-20-06, 12:25 AM
Damon .300/.370/.440
Jeter .310/.385/.460
Arod .300/.400/.580
Giambi .275/.430/.530
sheff .280/.375/.510
MAtsui .300/.370/.490
Posada .260/.340/.430
Cano .310/.335/.465
Williams .230/.310/.330
This actually sounds about right.
surge511
01-20-06, 07:37 AM
Damon .300-10-70
Jeter .315-18 -80
Arod .320-40-110
Giambi .245-25-85
Sheff .285-25-95
Matsui .300-25-115
Posada .235-15-70
Cano .290-20-80
Bernie .230-12-50
Not my batting order, but a more realistic prediction.
I agree this is closer to realistic, but I think Giambi will hit a little better than that, and Sheff will do little better. Remember, he wants a contract after this year. The homerun totals are more down to earth, but I think Posada and Bernie will have slightly higher averages.
surge511
01-20-06, 07:39 AM
For me the better Yankees' line-up is:
Damon
Jeter
Sheffield (he batted well in the 3rd position)
A-rod (the big slugger have to be the clean-up)
Giambi (protected A-rod very well)
Matsui
Posada
Williams
Cano (in order don't stop Damon and Jeter)
There is no reason, with so many interchangable big bats, to create matchup heaven for the opposing manager. The lineup is so perfectly balanced with rightys and leftys, there is no reason to take that asset away and clump the rights and lefts together. Putting Giambi in between Sheff and Arod is logical.
IMO the bottom 3 should be Cano followed by Posada followed by Williams. Cano shouldn't be batting 9th because in late innings of a close game that would mean the opposing manager can bring in a lefty to face Cano and Damon, and Torre can't do much about it -- a good probability of killing a rally.
Of course having Williams following Posada certainly increase the chances of an inning-ending DP, but at least that means Damon leads off again the next inning! :D
Damon - L
Jeter - R
A-Rod - R
Giambi - L
Sheffield - R
Matsui - L
Cano - L
Posada - S
Williams - S
bostonyankeefan
01-20-06, 07:47 AM
I'm not going to post a lineup because that can get a little redundant and no one would notice the main point that I would make. And that is that Cano SHOULD NOT bat ninth. He has already shown he has the ability to drive the ball so I'd want him ahead of Posada and bernie or whoever the other guy is at the bottom. It gives him RBI potential and would be a confidence boost over batting down at the bottom. Posada should hit 8th, and bernie/phillips/crosby, whoever ninth
I agree 100%. I would like to see Cano 5th or 6th. He can hit for power and average.
BRNXBMRS
01-20-06, 08:19 AM
Damon
Jeter
A-rod
Sheffield
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Williams
Cano
TheBamTino24
01-20-06, 08:37 AM
I'm not going to get into predicting statistical production yet, but this would be my lineup for Opening Day 2006:
CF Damon
SS Jeter
3B Rodriguez
RF Sheffield
LF Matsui
1B Giambi
C Posada
2B Cano
DH Williams
seamusk
01-20-06, 03:56 PM
I've said this before but against right-handed pitchers Damon should leadoff and against lefties Jeter should leadoff. Then use the LRLR rotation to the extent feasible. I also especially think that when Damon in particular is leading off that Cano should be flanked between switch hitters.
Against Righties
Damon (L)
Jeter (R)
Giambi (L)
A-Rod (R)
Matsui (L)
Sheffield (R)
Posada (L/R)
Cano (L)
Williams (L/R)
Against Lefties
Jeter (R)
Damon (L)
A-Rod (R)
Sheffield (R)
Giambi (L)
Matsui (L)
Posada (L/R)
Cano (L)
Williams (L/R)
I've said this before but against right-handed pitchers Damon should leadoff and against lefties Jeter should leadoff. Then use the LRLR rotation to the extent feasible. I also especially think that when Damon in particular is leading off that Cano should be flanked between switch hitters.
Against Righties
Damon (L)
Jeter (R)
Giambi (L)
A-Rod (R)
Matsui (L)
Sheffield (R)
Posada (L/R)
Cano (L)
Williams (L/R)
Against Lefties
Jeter (R)
Damon (L)
A-Rod (R)
Sheffield (R)
Giambi (L)
Matsui (L)
Posada (L/R)
Cano (L)
Williams (L/R)
You know, that is a darn good idea, actually :clap:
Against Lefties, why RRLL?
BillBuckner
01-20-06, 04:25 PM
Gary Sheffield hitting 6th? Damn.
Damon .295 BA 14 HRs 55 RBIs
Jeter .310 18 70
Rodriguez .305 40 120
Giambi .280 35 105
Sheffield .290 35 105
Matsui .295 30 100
Cano .280 25 80
Posada .265 25 75
Williams .270 20 70
Stupid Flanders
01-20-06, 07:09 PM
Torre isn't going to bat Damon second
161 and River Ave.
01-20-06, 09:49 PM
Torre isn't going to bat Damon second
Yea seriously, Damon was mainly brought here to be the table setter. Yea statistically Jeter is better at leading off than Damon. But I don't recall Damon batting 2nd for KC, Oak, or Boston at all. What makes people so sure that he's going to thrive in the 2 spot. Jeter is the better bunter and is great at going to RF, so wouldn't it make sense to have Jeter be able to bunt/advance Damon over? The Yankees are going to try to manufacture runs again. Something we haven't done since 2001.
Casey37
01-20-06, 09:56 PM
No matter how you slice it, the Yanks have one hell of a lineup (if they stay healthy) this year.
I expect to see some serious fireworks from them in 2006.
27IsNext
01-20-06, 11:43 PM
Assuming Phillips starts (and presently, that looks to be the case), here is my desired lineup:
SS Jeter
CF Damon
RF Sheffield
DH Giambi
3B Rodriguez
LF Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
1B Phillips
Here's what it probably will be, however:
CF Damon
SS Jeter
3B Rodriguez
1B Giambi
RF Sheffield
LF Matsui
C Posada
2B Cano
1B Phillips
BennyTheJetRodriguez
01-21-06, 12:24 AM
I don't think the whole LRLRLR lineup is super crucial to this team. As long as Cano and Giambi don't hit back to back I don't think it makes much of a difference. I mean yeah get Giambi between A-Rod and Sheff, but Matsui hits Lefties better than righties, and Jeter hit righties better than lefties last year. I dont' think having Jeter and A-Rod back to back will hurt at all. This isn't a lineup where you have to do that, especially at the top. Jeter's numbers are pretty much directly effected by how much the batter infront of him gets on. Look at the Knobby years, They were Jeter's best. For that reason alone, i would hit Jeter second regardless of who is actually the better leadoff hitter.
YankeePride1967
01-21-06, 07:22 AM
Here's my lineup:
SS -- Jeter
CF -- Damon
3B -- Rodriguez
1B -- Giambi
RF -- Sheffield
LF -- Matsui
C -- Posada
DH -- Williams
2B -- Cano
JeterRodriguezSheff
01-21-06, 09:14 AM
I think it seemed like Bernie was hurt last year. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but part of me thinks/hopes that he might get healthy and do better this year. I dont' think the Yanks would have signed him if he was DONE done. It makes me think he might have been hurt, but they expect him to get better this year. They certainly know more about his health status than us.
But they may only have signed him because he is relatively cheap. Maybe watching him from a rookie has effected my feelings, but I am pulling for him.
They only signed him as a thank you. If his name wasnt Bernie Williams he wouldnt even be close to being on the team.
YANKfan47
01-24-06, 12:44 AM
what a lineup!!!! top to bottom is a threat to the opposing ball club! all 9 playes have ability to hit HR's and i am lookin forward to watchin games this year in 07
Jglaubman
01-30-06, 06:22 PM
I think everyone would agree that no matter how you arrange Damon, Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, and Matsui, that's one heck of a top 6 in the batting order. But, when it comes to who's batting after, I see a lot of people batting Posada 7th, Bernie 8th, and Cano last. Why would you bat Cano last even though he proved he was a far superior hitter than Posada last year. The only reason I could see why people would want to bat Cano last is to stay away from the back-to-back lefties. But, if Matsui bats 6th, he is better against lefties anyway. So, I see no reason why we shouldn't bat Cano 7th.
AMYanks
01-30-06, 08:01 PM
Damon - .290 / .360 / .440
Jeter - .310 / .385 / .465
Rodriguez - .315 / .405 / .600
Giambi - .275 / .425 / .560
Sheffield - .290 / .375 / .510
Matsui - .300 / .365 / .500
Cano - .280 / .330 / .470
Posada - .255 / .340 / .450
Williams - .260 / .335 / .410
ConnYanksFan
01-31-06, 02:42 PM
1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. Rodriguez
4. Sheffield
5. Giambi
6. Matsui
7. Posada
8. Williams
9. Cano
Very well balanced line up. And finally for the first time since Chuck Knoblauch donned the Pinstripes, the Yanks have a true lead off hitter.
JeffWeaverFan
01-31-06, 02:58 PM
Yea seriously, Damon was mainly brought here to be the table setter. Yea statistically Jeter is better at leading off than Damon. But I don't recall Damon batting 2nd for KC, Oak, or Boston at all. What makes people so sure that he's going to thrive in the 2 spot. Jeter is the better bunter and is great at going to RF, so wouldn't it make sense to have Jeter be able to bunt/advance Damon over? The Yankees are going to try to manufacture runs again. Something we haven't done since 2001.
No, Damon was mainly brought in here to cover a lot of ground in CF and be a good offensive player. Cash has had no problems with Jeter leading off.
You may not recall Damon batting 2nd for KC, Oak, or Boston, but that is just because you don't remember. Damon has batted 2nd many times including 156 times in 2002. In that spot, he did hit .321/.384/.532/.916, so he can handle it just fine.
Jeter and Damon are both good bunters and, furthermore, why do you want Jeter wasting AB's to advance Damon instead of just hitting? Jeter is great at going to RF, but Damon, being a lefty, is better. Jeter also grounds into a ton more DP's than Damon. Would it make sense for Jeter to bunt Damon over? No, it makes no sense to waste an out in Jeter and have him bunt Damon over all the time. I'd much prefer he swung the bat.
If the Yankees start having Jeter bunt Damon over everytime he's at 1B instead of letting him, and his .400 OBP swing away, we are going to lose a lot of runs this season.
JeffWeaverFan
01-31-06, 03:01 PM
My lineup vs Rightys:
Jeter (R)
Damon (L)
A-Rod (R)
Giambi (L)
Sheff (R)
Matsui (L)
Posada (S)
Bernie (S)
Cano (L)
Vs. leftys:
Jeter (R)
Damon (L)
A-Rod (R)
Giambi (L)
Sheff (R)
Matsui (L)
Posada (S)
Cano (L)
Andy Phillips (R)
I think Joe's lineup will be pretty much the same except with Jeter and Damon obviously switching up.
Bernie = MVP this year? as DH... :p
BennyTheJetRodriguez
02-03-06, 01:24 AM
I'm curious why so many people want Damon to hit second. I understand the advantage Jeter has in OBP, but his numbers with a good leadoff hitter infront of him speak for themselves.
Jeter w/ runner on 1B
05- .396 BA
03- .390 BA
01- .340 BA
00- .407 BA
99- .377 BA
In 04 he hit .290 something, but that was that wierd year where he didn't hit anything until what like June.
98...Knobby OBP .361........Jeter BA .324
99...Knobby OBP .393........Jeter BA .349
00...Knobby OBP .366........Jeter BA .339
01...Knobby OBP .339........Jeter BA .311
02...Soriano OBP .332........Jeter BA .297
Notice the trend? he slipped a bit more than usual in the Soriano year, but remember, Soriano had 51 doubles, 2 tripples and 39 home runs that year, so alot of the times he was on base were extra base hits, not singles and walks.
To me if Damon is going to hit the same in either spot you gotta put Jeter in the 2 hole. The whole L, R, L, R thing isn't hugely important to me unless you have Cano and Giambi back to back. Jeter/A-Rod/Sheff hit righties, Matsui hits lefties...its not a big deal, it just looks nice on paper.
genius-24
02-03-06, 04:40 PM
I'm curious why so many people want Damon to hit second. I understand the advantage Jeter has in OBP, but his numbers with a good leadoff hitter infront of him speak for themselves.
Jeter w/ runner on 1B
05- .396 BA
03- .390 BA
01- .340 BA
00- .407 BA
99- .377 BA
In 04 he hit .290 something, but that was that wierd year where he didn't hit anything until what like June.
98...Knobby OBP .361........Jeter BA .324
99...Knobby OBP .393........Jeter BA .349
00...Knobby OBP .366........Jeter BA .339
01...Knobby OBP .339........Jeter BA .311
02...Soriano OBP .332........Jeter BA .297
Notice the trend? he slipped a bit more than usual in the Soriano year, but remember, Soriano had 51 doubles, 2 tripples and 39 home runs that year, so alot of the times he was on base were extra base hits, not singles and walks.
To me if Damon is going to hit the same in either spot you gotta put Jeter in the 2 hole. The whole L, R, L, R thing isn't hugely important to me unless you have Cano and Giambi back to back. Jeter/A-Rod/Sheff hit righties, Matsui hits lefties...its not a big deal, it just looks nice on paper.
Well said
TheInfallibleOne
02-03-06, 07:32 PM
No, Damon was mainly brought in here to cover a lot of ground in CF and be a good offensive player. Cash has had no problems with Jeter leading off.
You may not recall Damon batting 2nd for KC, Oak, or Boston, but that is just because you don't remember. Damon has batted 2nd many times including 156 times in 2002. In that spot, he did hit .321/.384/.532/.916, so he can handle it just fine.
Jeter and Damon are both good bunters and, furthermore, why do you want Jeter wasting AB's to advance Damon instead of just hitting? Jeter is great at going to RF, but Damon, being a lefty, is better. Jeter also grounds into a ton more DP's than Damon. Would it make sense for Jeter to bunt Damon over? No, it makes no sense to waste an out in Jeter and have him bunt Damon over all the time. I'd much prefer he swung the bat.
If the Yankees start having Jeter bunt Damon over everytime he's at 1B instead of letting him, and his .400 OBP swing away, we are going to lose a lot of runs this season.
since wen do u ever see the yankees use the bunt? i would expect to see more hit and run than bunting...yanks are not a small ball team. i expect to see jeter swinging the bat with damon on first and possibly trying to steal 2nd.
I would be happy if they just used the Caps button now and again. :D
JeffWeaverFan
02-03-06, 10:04 PM
since wen do u ever see the yankees use the bunt? i would expect to see more hit and run than bunting...yanks are not a small ball team. i expect to see jeter swinging the bat with damon on first and possibly trying to steal 2nd.
161 and River was saying a good reason for Jeter to bat 2nd was because he is such a good bunter... Either way, there were numerous times in the 2004 season when Lofton was leading off that Jeter bunted him over in the 1st inning. It was quite frustrating.
genius-24
02-04-06, 12:09 AM
161 and River was saying a good reason for Jeter to bat 2nd was because he is such a good bunter... Either way, there were numerous times in the 2004 season when Lofton was leading off that Jeter bunted him over in the 1st inning. It was quite frustrating.
2005 white sox
The Comic Book Guy
02-04-06, 12:47 AM
2005 white sox
... scored 741 runs, 9th best in the American League.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
02-04-06, 11:14 AM
I gotta agree with WeaverFan. Not that Jeter should be leading off, but that he should almost never ever bunt. His numbers with a runner on first and just common sence says he'll be more productive taking the ball the other way in those situations.
JeffWeaverFan
02-04-06, 11:37 AM
2005 white sox
Go on... Is this your argument to say that the Yankees should be like the 2005 White Sox and bunt people over all the time? Well, there's a few things wrong with that. 1. The Yankees are not the 2005 White Sox and are a much better offensive team. They don't need to bunt people over because they will score a ton of runs without doing that. 2. The White Sox had much better pitching the Yankees so them not scoring as many runs won't hurt them like it will hurt the Yankees. 3. The White Sox had much better defense than the Yankees. In fact, I just don't get the argument because it's so ridiculous. Let me just respond to your argument by saying 2004 Red Sox...
JeffWeaverFan
02-04-06, 11:49 AM
I'm curious why so many people want Damon to hit second. I understand the advantage Jeter has in OBP, but his numbers with a good leadoff hitter infront of him speak for themselves.
Jeter w/ runner on 1B
05- .396 BA
03- .390 BA
01- .340 BA
00- .407 BA
99- .377 BA
In 04 he hit .290 something, but that was that wierd year where he didn't hit anything until what like June.
98...Knobby OBP .361........Jeter BA .324
99...Knobby OBP .393........Jeter BA .349
00...Knobby OBP .366........Jeter BA .339
01...Knobby OBP .339........Jeter BA .311
02...Soriano OBP .332........Jeter BA .297
Notice the trend? he slipped a bit more than usual in the Soriano year, but remember, Soriano had 51 doubles, 2 tripples and 39 home runs that year, so alot of the times he was on base were extra base hits, not singles and walks.
To me if Damon is going to hit the same in either spot you gotta put Jeter in the 2 hole. The whole L, R, L, R thing isn't hugely important to me unless you have Cano and Giambi back to back. Jeter/A-Rod/Sheff hit righties, Matsui hits lefties...its not a big deal, it just looks nice on paper.
You make a legit argument, but there's a hole in it. When you are comparing Jeter's bA to the leadoff hitter's OBP, and noticing the trend that Jeter was getting worse as the OBP got worse, you are forgetting that Jeter, as a player, was also getting worse. His 2 best seasons were 1999 and 2000 (by a good amount actually), so naturally that's where his best BA's are. I don't think it has to do with Knobby in front of him getting on base a lot, rather that he was having his two best seasons that year.
As for him hitting well with men on 1st, I wonder how much of that is just coincidence. I don't see him becoming a better hitter because there's a man on 1st base. Either way, even if he does, how many more times will he get up to the plate with a man on 1st batting 2nd rather than batting 1st? It won't be all that many. I doubt it would outweigh the OBP advantages. Not to mention the fact that Jeter grounds into many more DP's than Damon.
Lastly, as for the whole L,R,L thing, it makes a small difference. Late in a game, lets say that our leadoff hitter is up. Would you rather that they could bring in a LOOGY to face Damon and then bring out their righty to face Jeter and A-Rod or would you rather that they have the decision to either keep a righty in against all 3 batters or try to make their LOOGY face Jeter or A-Rod? It's a small advantage, but one you might as well take.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
02-04-06, 12:14 PM
You make a legit argument, but there's a hole in it. When you are comparing Jeter's bA to the leadoff hitter's OBP, and noticing the trend that Jeter was getting worse as the OBP got worse, you are forgetting that Jeter, as a player, was also getting worse. His 2 best seasons were 1999 and 2000 (by a good amount actually), so naturally that's where his best BA's are. I don't think it has to do with Knobby in front of him getting on base a lot, rather that he was having his two best seasons that year.
As for him hitting well with men on 1st, I wonder how much of that is just coincidence. I don't see him becoming a better hitter because there's a man on 1st base. Either way, even if he does, how many more times will he get up to the plate with a man on 1st batting 2nd rather than batting 1st? It won't be all that many. I doubt it would outweigh the OBP advantages. Not to mention the fact that Jeter grounds into many more DP's than Damon.
Lastly, as for the whole L,R,L thing, it makes a small difference. Late in a game, lets say that our leadoff hitter is up. Would you rather that they could bring in a LOOGY to face Damon and then bring out their righty to face Jeter and A-Rod or would you rather that they have the decision to either keep a righty in against all 3 batters or try to make their LOOGY face Jeter or A-Rod? It's a small advantage, but one you might as well take.
He doesn't only get worse as the leadoff obp goes down, he also got better when it went up. Yeah 98 and 99 were his career years, but I think these numbers show that having more at bats in the situations a good leadoff man can create would actually cause an increase in BA and OBP. I thought the runner on 1B stats might be coinsidence, but if you think about it, the way he hits, his swing, it makes sense. As for the whole GIDP thing, it doesn't bother me because its like 6 or 7 outs, i think Jeter would more than make up for those outs with the exra ABs w/runner on first he'd be getting.
The L, R, L, R order helps, i'm not arguing that. I'm just saying I wouldn't do it for the sake of doing it. Lets say you wanted Damon leading off and Jeter hitting second...would you then put Giambi or Matsui up 3rd just for the sake of doing it or would you stick with A-Rod? Last year Jeter hit better against righties, its not his career norm, but it does happen. Matsui also hits better against lefties. I will agree with your loogy argument too. The thought of a Loogy having to face Jeter or A-Rod makes my mouth water.
Iknowcool
02-04-06, 03:56 PM
projected #'s
Damon: .320/.380/12 HR
Being in pinstripes will reenergize him and I think he will play like his first two years in Boston
Jeter
.315/.377/22HR
Hitting 2nd should take away the pressure to take pitches, allowing Jeter a higher BA, but a lower OBP. Look for his HR and RBI to be up as well
Rodriguez
.330/.402/55 HR/144 RBI
Having Damon/Jeter batting in front of him and on base should reduce his intentional walks and being pitched around. No ones to put two runners on for Giambi/Matsui/Sheffield. He will get more pitches to hit, so his average will go up, but his walks will decrease.
Giambi
.295/.420/33HR/107 RBI
roughly same as last year
Sheffield
.295/.393/29 HR/110 RBI
Most of his numbers last year came when he had to "carry the team", it was a big motivational factor to him. With a less prominent role in the Yanks offense, I expect a slight downturn in his overall offense
Matsui
.310/.385/25HR/102 RBI
Same as last year, high AVG, lots of doubles
Posada
.265/.365/19 HR/71 RBI
A consistently good hitter, lots of walks. Among the best offensive catchers in baseball.
Phillips
.270/.369/24 HR/64 RBI
Has posted great numbers in AAA, 40 ABs in the pros doesn't nullify that. Will be a Kevin Millar type, good OBP, decent power.
Cano
.325/.350/20 HR/85 RBI
The AL BA champ. Posted exceptional road numbers last year, maturation+ less prominent role in offense will take away pressure and allow him to perform better at home.
Dynasties R Forever
02-04-06, 04:13 PM
projected #'s
Damon: .320/.380/12 HR
Being in pinstripes will reenergize him and I think he will play like his first two years in Boston
Jeter
.315/.377/22HR
Hitting 2nd should take away the pressure to take pitches, allowing Jeter a higher BA, but a lower OBP. Look for his HR and RBI to be up as well
Rodriguez
.330/.402/55 HR/144 RBI
Having Damon/Jeter batting in front of him and on base should reduce his intentional walks and being pitched around. No ones to put two runners on for Giambi/Matsui/Sheffield. He will get more pitches to hit, so his average will go up, but his walks will decrease.
Giambi
.295/.420/33HR/107 RBI
roughly same as last year
Sheffield
.295/.393/29 HR/110 RBI
Most of his numbers last year came when he had to "carry the team", it was a big motivational factor to him. With a less prominent role in the Yanks offense, I expect a slight downturn in his overall offense
Matsui
.310/.385/25HR/102 RBI
Same as last year, high AVG, lots of doubles
Posada
.265/.365/19 HR/71 RBI
A consistently good hitter, lots of walks. Among the best offensive catchers in baseball.
Phillips
.270/.369/24 HR/64 RBI
Has posted great numbers in AAA, 40 ABs in the pros doesn't nullify that. Will be a Kevin Millar type, good OBP, decent power.
Cano
.325/.350/20 HR/85 RBI
The AL BA champ. Posted exceptional road numbers last year, maturation+ less prominent role in offense will take away pressure and allow him to perform better at home.
From your mouth to God's ears. Here's to positive thinking baby! :gulp:
Wonder how many total runs THAT projection would translate to...
genius-24
02-04-06, 04:26 PM
Go on... Is this your argument to say that the Yankees should be like the 2005 White Sox and bunt people over all the time? Well, there's a few things wrong with that. 1. The Yankees are not the 2005 White Sox and are a much better offensive team. They don't need to bunt people over because they will score a ton of runs without doing that. 2. The White Sox had much better pitching the Yankees so them not scoring as many runs won't hurt them like it will hurt the Yankees. 3. The White Sox had much better defense than the Yankees. In fact, I just don't get the argument because it's so ridiculous. Let me just respond to your argument by saying 2004 Red Sox...
Dude, first of all, chill out!
Second, my meaning with white sox was that they made best out of their lineup. Yankees lineup is pretty much similar to last year. Last year they left tons of man on base. Addition of damon wont erase all the problems.
Not perticulary jeter but if we can have some other players from the bottom of the linup bunt once in a while then IMO it would help scoring more often. Especially when posada, bernie and cano are strugling. In their strugles posada will mostly hit into DP, bernie will pop it up and cano will K.
That's all :)
Easy way >>>>>> Hard way :D:D:D
genius-24
02-04-06, 04:30 PM
projected #'s
Damon: .320/.380/12 HR
Being in pinstripes will reenergize him and I think he will play like his first two years in Boston
Jeter
.315/.377/22HR
Hitting 2nd should take away the pressure to take pitches, allowing Jeter a higher BA, but a lower OBP. Look for his HR and RBI to be up as well
Rodriguez
.330/.402/55 HR/144 RBI
Having Damon/Jeter batting in front of him and on base should reduce his intentional walks and being pitched around. No ones to put two runners on for Giambi/Matsui/Sheffield. He will get more pitches to hit, so his average will go up, but his walks will decrease.
Giambi
.295/.420/33HR/107 RBI
roughly same as last year
Sheffield
.295/.393/29 HR/110 RBI
Most of his numbers last year came when he had to "carry the team", it was a big motivational factor to him. With a less prominent role in the Yanks offense, I expect a slight downturn in his overall offense
Matsui
.310/.385/25HR/102 RBI
Same as last year, high AVG, lots of doubles
Posada
.265/.365/19 HR/71 RBI
A consistently good hitter, lots of walks. Among the best offensive catchers in baseball.
Phillips
.270/.369/24 HR/64 RBI
Has posted great numbers in AAA, 40 ABs in the pros doesn't nullify that. Will be a Kevin Millar type, good OBP, decent power.
Cano
.325/.350/20 HR/85 RBI
The AL BA champ. Posted exceptional road numbers last year, maturation+ less prominent role in offense will take away pressure and allow him to perform better at home.
Optimism...
metalboy15
02-04-06, 05:14 PM
you guys are getting your hopes to high.
Realistic Stats
Johnny Damon .297 11 HR 66 RBI
Derek Jeter .302 14 HR 72 RBI
Alex Rodriguez .307 43 HR 119 RBI
Gary Sheffield .291 32 HR 105 RBI
Jason Giambi .277 36 HR 87 RBI
Hideki Matsui .294 29 HR 101 RBI
Jorge Posada .261 17 HR 62 RBI
Robinson Canó .288 19 HR 79 RBI
Bernie Williams .251 10 HR 51 RBI
Pitchers:
Randy Johnson 19-8 3.45 ERA 205 K´s
Mike Mussina 11-10 4.11 ERA 117 K´s
Carl Pavano 12-9 4.01 ERA 106 K´s
Shawn Chacon 13-11 4.21 ERA 99 K´s
Chien-Ming Wang 15-7 3.77 ERA 87 K´s
Jaret Wright 7-8 4.44 ERA 71 K´s
Aaron Small 9-4 4.11 ERA 69 K´s
Mariano Rivera 7-4 1.77 ERA 71 K´s
Kyle Farnsworth 6-6 2.98 ERA 93 K´s
Octavio Dotel 3-5 3.33 ERA 46 K´s
Ron Villone 3-6 4.33 ERA 78 K´s
Mike Myers 4-1 2.07 ERA 33 K´s
Tanyon Sturtze 5-3 3.98 ERA 55 K´s
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-04-06, 05:36 PM
Not that this lineup will lack for offense, but it's pretty depressing that our DH could very well be the weakest hitter on the team, and will probably be no better than 7th best.
YankeePride1967
02-04-06, 05:43 PM
Not that this lineup will lack for offense, but it's pretty depressing that our DH could very well be the weakest hitter on the team, and will probably be no better than 7th best.
I was against re-signing him as it was a move for nostalgia and not for baseball reasons, but he's here and I just hope that now that he doesn't have to worry about the field that his bat has somewhat of a recovery. I can only hope.
JeffWeaverFan
02-04-06, 05:44 PM
Dude, first of all, chill out!
Second, my meaning with white sox was that they made best out of their lineup. Yankees lineup is pretty much similar to last year. Last year they left tons of man on base. Addition of damon wont erase all the problems.
Not perticulary jeter but if we can have some other players from the bottom of the linup bunt once in a while then IMO it would help scoring more often. Especially when posada, bernie and cano are strugling. In their strugles posada will mostly hit into DP, bernie will pop it up and cano will K.
That's all :)
Easy way >>>>>> Hard way :D:D:D
I'm chilled now.
OK, but under that theory, having Jeter bat 1st instead of Damon doesn't matter. Also, who do you want bunting lower in the lineup? This team is not going to be manufacturing runs because it doesn't need to.
JeffWeaverFan
02-04-06, 05:53 PM
He doesn't only get worse as the leadoff obp goes down, he also got better when it went up. Yeah 98 and 99 were his career years, but I think these numbers show that having more at bats in the situations a good leadoff man can create would actually cause an increase in BA and OBP. I thought the runner on 1B stats might be coinsidence, but if you think about it, the way he hits, his swing, it makes sense. As for the whole GIDP thing, it doesn't bother me because its like 6 or 7 outs, i think Jeter would more than make up for those outs with the exra ABs w/runner on first he'd be getting.
You know what, you're probably right. He is good at taking advantage of the hole that a man on 1st creates. That makes some sense. It's probably the best argument for him batting 2nd behind Damon.
But, the question then becomes does that outweigh the other advantages of him leading off? How many more times will he hit with a man on 1st batting 2nd than batting leadoff? Actually, you may be able to find that out? I can only find the splits as far back as 2002, when Soriano was leading off. How many AB's did he have with men on 1st base in 1999 when Knobby was leading off? And then we can compare that to his 91 AB's with men on 1st that he had last season batting leadoff. I don't think it will be that big a difference.
The L, R, L, R order helps, i'm not arguing that. I'm just saying I wouldn't do it for the sake of doing it. Lets say you wanted Damon leading off and Jeter hitting second...would you then put Giambi or Matsui up 3rd just for the sake of doing it or would you stick with A-Rod? Last year Jeter hit better against righties, its not his career norm, but it does happen. Matsui also hits better against lefties. I will agree with your loogy argument too. The thought of a Loogy having to face Jeter or A-Rod makes my mouth water.
I'd think about using Giambi in the 3 spot instead of A-Rod but I'd probably go with A-Rod because it doesn't make a big difference. It's just a small advantage and since I think it makes more sense to leadoff with Jeter, it's just an addition to that.
The one thing I think we can agree on is that it won't make a big difference either way.
Mr. Mxylsplk
02-04-06, 05:55 PM
I was against re-signing him as it was a move for nostalgia and not for baseball reasons, but he's here and I just hope that now that he doesn't have to worry about the field that his bat has somewhat of a recovery. I can only hope.
Hopefully. Even if he gets back to what he did in 04 and 03 he's not much of an offensive force, and I doubt the rest of being out of the field can undo three years of age, but you never know. Playing center is a lot of wear and tear, and hopefully having that off his body will help. And who knows, maybe Phillips will surprise us.
YankeePride1967
02-04-06, 06:05 PM
Hopefully. Even if he gets back to what he did in 04 and 03 he's not much of an offensive force, and I doubt the rest of being out of the field can undo three years of age, but you never know. Playing center is a lot of wear and tear, and hopefully having that off his body will help. And who knows, maybe Phillips will surprise us.
I hope. I really think 2006 will come down to how healthy we remain. If we have to start relying on the underbelly of our bench it could be a bad year.
genius-24
02-04-06, 07:35 PM
I'm chilled now.
OK, but under that theory, having Jeter bat 1st instead of Damon doesn't matter. Also, who do you want bunting lower in the lineup? This team is not going to be manufacturing runs because it doesn't need to.
I have mentioned the name above in the post
genius-24
02-04-06, 07:38 PM
you guys are getting your hopes to high.
Realistic Stats
Johnny Damon .297 11 HR 66 RBI
Derek Jeter .302 14 HR 72 RBI
Alex Rodriguez .307 43 HR 119 RBI
Gary Sheffield .291 32 HR 105 RBI
Jason Giambi .277 36 HR 87 RBI
Hideki Matsui .294 29 HR 101 RBI
Jorge Posada .261 17 HR 62 RBI
Robinson Canó .288 19 HR 79 RBI
Bernie Williams .251 10 HR 51 RBI
Pitchers:
Randy Johnson 19-8 3.45 ERA 205 K´s
Mike Mussina 11-10 4.11 ERA 117 K´s
Carl Pavano 12-9 4.01 ERA 106 K´s
Shawn Chacon 13-11 4.21 ERA 99 K´s
Chien-Ming Wang 15-7 3.77 ERA 87 K´s
Jaret Wright 7-8 4.44 ERA 71 K´s
Aaron Small 9-4 4.11 ERA 69 K´s
Mariano Rivera 7-4 1.77 ERA 71 K´s
Kyle Farnsworth 6-6 2.98 ERA 93 K´s
Octavio Dotel 3-5 3.33 ERA 46 K´s
Ron Villone 3-6 4.33 ERA 78 K´s
Mike Myers 4-1 2.07 ERA 33 K´s
Tanyon Sturtze 5-3 3.98 ERA 55 K´s
ur hopes are high on our bullpen.
Arod for President
02-04-06, 07:59 PM
I dont think Bernie is going to be our DH.
Those who think the Yanks will lead the league in team batting average this year raise your hands!
Hand raised.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
02-04-06, 08:02 PM
But, the question then becomes does that outweigh the other advantages of him leading off? How many more times will he hit with a man on 1st batting 2nd than batting leadoff? Actually, you may be able to find that out? I can only find the splits as far back as 2002, when Soriano was leading off.I can only find splits that go back to 99. That year he had 130 Abs with a runner on 1B, 20-30 more than any year I can find, that was also the year Knobby had a .393 obp and Jeter's career year. Its not really about the difference between hitting 1st or 2nd, it all depends on who the leadoff/9th hitter is really.
I'd think about using Giambi in the 3 spot instead of A-Rod but I'd probably go with A-Rod because it doesn't make a big difference. It's just a small advantage and since I think it makes more sense to leadoff with Jeter, it's just an addition to that. oh yeah I agree, no huge difference.
you guys are getting your hopes to high.
Realistic Stats
Johnny Damon .297 11 HR 66 RBI
Derek Jeter .302 14 HR 72 RBI
Alex Rodriguez .307 43 HR 119 RBI
Gary Sheffield .291 32 HR 105 RBI
Jason Giambi .277 36 HR 87 RBI
Hideki Matsui .294 29 HR 101 RBI
Jorge Posada .261 17 HR 62 RBI
Robinson Canó .288 19 HR 79 RBI
Bernie Williams .251 10 HR 51 RBI
Pitchers:
Randy Johnson 19-8 3.45 ERA 205 K´s
Mike Mussina 11-10 4.11 ERA 117 K´s
Carl Pavano 12-9 4.01 ERA 106 K´s
Shawn Chacon 13-11 4.21 ERA 99 K´s
Chien-Ming Wang 15-7 3.77 ERA 87 K´s
Jaret Wright 7-8 4.44 ERA 71 K´s
Aaron Small 9-4 4.11 ERA 69 K´s
Mariano Rivera 7-4 1.77 ERA 71 K´s
Kyle Farnsworth 6-6 2.98 ERA 93 K´s
Octavio Dotel 3-5 3.33 ERA 46 K´s
Ron Villone 3-6 4.33 ERA 78 K´s
Mike Myers 4-1 2.07 ERA 33 K´s
Tanyon Sturtze 5-3 3.98 ERA 55 K´s
You realistic projections give us 211 HR from our starting 9 alone and a team ERA of like 4.00. We'd win 100 games.
The Comic Book Guy
02-04-06, 10:42 PM
You realistic projections give us 211 HR from our starting 9 alone and a team ERA of like 4.00. We'd win 100 games.
Our starting 9 had 218 HRs last year and 208 the year before that... I don't know what our team ERA will look like, but I'd be surprised if it was in the 4.5-4.6 range like last year.
Further, is it really unrealistic to expect this team to win 95-100 games?
Our starting 9 had 218 HRs last year and 208 the year before that... I don't know what our team ERA will look like, but I'd be surprised if it was in the 4.5-4.6 range like last year.
Further, is it really unrealistic to expect this team to win 95-100 games?
Team ERA was 4.52 last year. So a 4.0 ERA means half a run less per game, so we give up 80 less runs. That is a ton.
Last year we basically didn't have a bench. I doubt we have a bench again that hits only 11 HR all season, if the starters hit 211 we probably have more HR than the 229 we had last year. This is insignificant compared to the ERA disparity of course, since total slugging is more important than HR totals anyway.
I don't think this team will win 100 games in this division, but 95-100 is not "really unrealistic." In any case the guy seemed to be saying that people predicting this lineup/team's success are being unrealistic, then he gives a projection that would net 100 wins. Im not arguing with his projections at all, just noting that his more "realistic" projections still say we will be really good.
longtimeyankeefan
02-05-06, 07:04 AM
you guys are getting your hopes to high.
Realistic Stats
Johnny Damon .297 11 HR 66 RBI
Derek Jeter .302 14 HR 72 RBI
Alex Rodriguez .307 43 HR 119 RBI
Gary Sheffield .291 32 HR 105 RBI
Jason Giambi .277 36 HR 87 RBI
Hideki Matsui .294 29 HR 101 RBI
Jorge Posada .261 17 HR 62 RBI
Robinson Canó .288 19 HR 79 RBI
Bernie Williams .251 10 HR 51 RBI
Pitchers:
Randy Johnson 19-8 3.45 ERA 205 K´s
Mike Mussina 11-10 4.11 ERA 117 K´s
Carl Pavano 12-9 4.01 ERA 106 K´s
Shawn Chacon 13-11 4.21 ERA 99 K´s
Chien-Ming Wang 15-7 3.77 ERA 87 K´s
Jaret Wright 7-8 4.44 ERA 71 K´s
Aaron Small 9-4 4.11 ERA 69 K´s
Mariano Rivera 7-4 1.77 ERA 71 K´s
Kyle Farnsworth 6-6 2.98 ERA 93 K´s
Octavio Dotel 3-5 3.33 ERA 46 K´s
Ron Villone 3-6 4.33 ERA 78 K´s
Mike Myers 4-1 2.07 ERA 33 K´s
Tanyon Sturtze 5-3 3.98 ERA 55 K´s
Metalboy -
You begin your post by talking "realistic stats", but they you have this staff going 114-82 in 196 games. Are you including spring training games in their W/L records?
JeterRodriguezSheff
02-05-06, 08:16 AM
projected #'s
Damon: .320/.380/12 HR
Being in pinstripes will reenergize him and I think he will play like his first two years in Boston
Jeter
.315/.377/22HR
Hitting 2nd should take away the pressure to take pitches, allowing Jeter a higher BA, but a lower OBP. Look for his HR and RBI to be up as well
Rodriguez
.330/.402/55 HR/144 RBI
Having Damon/Jeter batting in front of him and on base should reduce his intentional walks and being pitched around. No ones to put two runners on for Giambi/Matsui/Sheffield. He will get more pitches to hit, so his average will go up, but his walks will decrease.
Giambi
.295/.420/33HR/107 RBI
roughly same as last year
Sheffield
.295/.393/29 HR/110 RBI
Most of his numbers last year came when he had to "carry the team", it was a big motivational factor to him. With a less prominent role in the Yanks offense, I expect a slight downturn in his overall offense
Matsui
.310/.385/25HR/102 RBI
Same as last year, high AVG, lots of doubles
Posada
.265/.365/19 HR/71 RBI
A consistently good hitter, lots of walks. Among the best offensive catchers in baseball.
Phillips
.270/.369/24 HR/64 RBI
Has posted great numbers in AAA, 40 ABs in the pros doesn't nullify that. Will be a Kevin Millar type, good OBP, decent power.
Cano
.325/.350/20 HR/85 RBI
The AL BA champ. Posted exceptional road numbers last year, maturation+ less prominent role in offense will take away pressure and allow him to perform better at home.
How is cano the AL BA champ when you just posted that A-rod has a higher average? Those are totally unrealistic predictions, you are expecting the whole team to have a career year.
38Special
02-05-06, 08:58 AM
Damon .305/.370/.445
Jeter .312/.390/.475
Arod .310/.415/.600
Giambi .260/.410/.510
Sheffield .290/.380/.500
Matsui .295/.360/.515
Posada .270/.365/.450
Cano .305/.340/.480
Williams .260/.340/.375
Randy Johnson - 3.95 ERA
Mike Mussina - 4.45 ERA
Carl Pavano - 3.80 ERA
Shawn Chacon - 4.15 ERA
Chien-Ming Wang - 3.90 ERA
Jaret Wright - 4.60 ERA
Aaron Small - 4.90 ERA
Mariano Rivera - 2.30 ERA
Kyle Farnsworth - 3.15 ERA
Octavio Dotel - 3.50 ERA
Ron Villone - 4.05 ERA
Mike Myers - 3.00 ERA
Tanyon Sturtze - 3.90 ERA
Dr. Gonzo
02-05-06, 09:38 AM
I see Giambi batting 6 behind sheff and matsui
I see Giambi batting 6 behind sheff and matsui
Why? Giambi is a better hitter than both and, unless you bat Matsui 4th, it breaks up the lefties and righties.
genius-24
02-05-06, 11:00 AM
Why? Giambi is a better hitter than both and, unless you bat Matsui 4th, it breaks up the lefties and righties.
How is giambi better hitter then sheff? Yes he gets on base more often but sheff's number in RISP are amazing. Also sheff is more consistant. Yes i know sheff is old but he has to prove that his age can effect his numbers, unless that is not proven sheff is fine in the 4th hole.
Lefty, righty crap is useless in our middle lineup b/c n e of those players can hit lefty/righty effectively.
i would rather have sheff bat 4th, giambi 5th, and matsui 6th. Not to mention matsui hits lefties better then righties.
Yeah 98 and 99 were his career years, but I think these numbers show that having more at bats in the situations a good leadoff man can create would actually cause an increase in BA and OBP.
If the goal were to maximize Derek Jeter, this argument might have merit. The goal, however, is to maximize the Yankees. What you're saying about Jeter also basically applies to Damon, owever, Jeter will be on in front of Damon more often.
How is giambi better hitter then sheff? Yes he gets on base more often but sheff's number in RISP are amazing. Also sheff is more consistant. Yes i know sheff is old but he has to prove that his age can effect his numbers, unless that is not proven sheff is fine in the 4th hole.
Lefty, righty crap is useless in our middle lineup b/c n e of those players can hit lefty/righty effectively.
i would rather have sheff bat 4th, giambi 5th, and matsui 6th. Not to mention matsui hits lefties better then righties.
1. Giambi makes fewer outs and hits for more power.
2. Sheffield has decined in each of the last 2 years...were you looking for some other evidence that he is getting older?
3. Giambi had an OPS over 1.000 with RISP last year.
4. While Matsui hit lefties last year, he didn't the two years before. The point is, Matsui and Giambi are both likely to fare worse against lefties and Sheffield is likely to fare better. Given that Giambi is already better overall than Sheffield, why wouldn't you eliminate the chances that a manager can, if nothing else, lower Giambi and Matsui's production?
genius-24
02-05-06, 01:07 PM
1. Giambi makes fewer outs and hits for more power.
2. Sheffield has decined in each of the last 2 years...were you looking for some other evidence that he is getting older?
3. Giambi had an OPS over 1.000 with RISP last year.
4. While Matsui hit lefties last year, he didn't the two years before. The point is, Matsui and Giambi are both likely to fare worse against lefties and Sheffield is likely to fare better. Given that Giambi is already better overall than Sheffield, why wouldn't you eliminate the chances that a manager can, if nothing else, lower Giambi and Matsui's production?
Sheff and giambi's numbers are pretty close, except sheff hits for better avg in RISP, sheff is more conisistant then giambi in different ballparks, and sheff has more RBI's then giambi while giambi has better OBP then sheff. Other then that they are pretty similar.
Though, i like u r point 4.
NewEraYanks2527
02-05-06, 01:27 PM
Damon .302/11/78
Jeter .324/21/85
Arod .312/50/115
Giambi .300/41/124
Sheff .294/29/101
Matsui .305/30/107
Posada .265/20/80
Cano .309/21/91
Williams .241/15/60
JeffWeaverFan
02-05-06, 01:41 PM
Sheff and giambi's numbers are pretty close, except sheff hits for better avg in RISP, sheff is more conisistant then giambi in different ballparks, and sheff has more RBI's then giambi while giambi has better OBP then sheff. Other then that they are pretty similar.
Though, i like u r point 4.
Sheff having great numbers with RISP should not be a reason he should bat ahead of Giambi. He'll have a ton of opportunities to get those runs in batting 5th.
As for the park factors, Giambi had a .997 OPS at home and a .954 OPS on the road. Sheff had a .916 OPS at home and a .867 OPS on the road. So, in reality, Giambi was more consistent than Sheff in terms of different parks.
Sheff had more RBI's than Giambi because Sheff got a lot more AB's than Giambi and Giambi was hitting in the bottom of the order for a lot of the time. Giambi was a better hitter than Sheff last year and it isn't all that close.
JeffWeaverFan
02-05-06, 01:42 PM
Team ERA was 4.52 last year. So a 4.0 ERA means half a run less per game, so we give up 80 less runs. That is a ton.
I agree, but I do think that having Damon in CF instead of Bernie is going to do wonders for the pitching staff.
NewEraYanks2527
02-05-06, 01:56 PM
I agree, but I do think that having Damon in CF instead of Bernie is going to do wonders for the pitching staff. I think you are right, Damon in CF will help out the pitching staff, of course Wang and Pavano are ground ball pitchers so really we need a slicker Cano at 2B to help that cause but hopefully it will all work out.
JeffWeaverFan
02-05-06, 02:02 PM
I think you are right, Damon in CF will help out the pitching staff, of course Wang and Pavano are ground ball pitchers so really we need a slicker Cano at 2B to help that cause but hopefully it will all work out.
That's especially true for Wang, who gets a groundball 51% of the time. Pavano got one 40% of the time, but he gives up a good amount of flyballs too, so the CF help will be big for him too. Either way, the point I was going to make is that when Wang pitches, I hope Andy Phillips plays 1B and Giambi DH's.
genius-24
02-05-06, 02:18 PM
Sheff having great numbers with RISP should not be a reason he should bat ahead of Giambi. He'll have a ton of opportunities to get those runs in batting 5th.
As for the park factors, Giambi had a .997 OPS at home and a .954 OPS on the road. Sheff had a .916 OPS at home and a .867 OPS on the road. So, in reality, Giambi was more consistent than Sheff in terms of different parks.
Sheff had more RBI's than Giambi because Sheff got a lot more AB's than Giambi and Giambi was hitting in the bottom of the order for a lot of the time. Giambi was a better hitter than Sheff last year and it isn't all that close.
Again i am not talking about overall. I said CONSISTANT in DIFFERENT ballparks. U can hit ton in fenway and choke in tigers stadium.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5386&type=batting&year=2005
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=4268&type=batting&year=2005
JeffWeaverFan
02-05-06, 02:24 PM
Again i am not talking about overall. I said CONSISTANT in DIFFERENT ballparks.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5386&type=batting&year=2005
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=4268&type=batting&year=2005
I see. Either way, I don't see that as a good enough reason to bat Sheff 4th instead of Giambi. Giambi is the better hitter so he should bat ahead of Sheff. The R, L, R thing is also nice. Lastly, with Giambi batting ahead of Sheff, he will make less outs than Sheff and the Yankees as a team will then have more AB's and thus more runs.
genius-24
02-05-06, 02:28 PM
I see. Either way, I don't see that as a good enough reason to bat Sheff 4th instead of Giambi. Giambi is the better hitter so he should bat ahead of Sheff. The R, L, R thing is also nice. Lastly, with Giambi batting ahead of Sheff, he will make less outs than Sheff and the Yankees as a team will then have more AB's and thus more runs.
True, that's why i said BJG's point 4 made more sense <ahh.. )="" sheff="" but="" its="" better="" for="" whole="" team=""></ahh..>
Iknowcool
02-05-06, 03:18 PM
Sheff makes a lot more contact than Giambi. When one of Damon-Jeter-Rodriguez is on second after hitting a double, I'd be happier with Sheffield at bat to hit the sac-fly and move them up.
1) Johnson 18-9/3.28/220K
2) Mussina 11-9/4.29/140K
3) Chacon 14-10/4.02/110 K
4) Wang 17-7/3.41/114 K
5) Pavano 15-6/3.89/163K
Rivera 1.89 ERA, 45 SV
Farnsworth 2.41ERA/ 72IP-91K-57H
Dotel 3.32 ERA/49 IP-72K-34H
Villone 3.11/56IP-61K-53H
Myers 1.81/29IP-21K-19H
Sturtze 4.20/47IP-36K-42H
Small 3.79/112IP-65K-110H
JeffWeaverFan
02-05-06, 03:31 PM
Sheff makes a lot more contact than Giambi. When one of Damon-Jeter-Rodriguez is on second after hitting a double, I'd be happier with Sheffield at bat to hit the sac-fly and move them up.
Well, if only one of those guys hit the double and the other guy moved him up, then there would be 2 outs... Plus, as a righty that pulls most everything, Sheff is not good at moving guys from 2nd to 3rd. Just put the better hitter before the worse hitter. And, the fact that he's a lefty so you are splitting up the rightys makes it even better.
Iknowcool
02-05-06, 04:07 PM
I meant .335 for Cano, these stupid dell keyboards suck ass.
If you look at my predictions, they are not unrealistic. Is it unrealistic to expect Damon to add .004 points to his average? Or Jeter adding .006? Every players numbers are around what they had last year, and Sheffs and Posadas actually went down. When I projected Phillips, I based them off what scouts had to say. That he was probably a Kevin Millar type. So I projected Kevin Millar numbers.
The only real numbers I would say are "optimistic" are A-Rods and Canos. And I strongly feel A-Rod will have a better year due to the fact that people won't be able to pitch around him with Damon/Jeter on base and Giambi,Sheff, Matsui hitting behind him. Plus, his numbers have went up every year he has been a Yankee.
Cano, maybe some wishful thinking on my part, I admit to that. But still, I do see him hitting .300+ next year. Last year, he hit .297 hitting in a high-profile position in the batting order, no.2. Moving him to number eight or nine should allow him to raise his BA five or ten points. If you look at his BA at home and on the road, you see that at home, where all the pressure was, he was bad, and on the road he hit .350. Maturation+ a less notable spot in the offense should take away that pressure.
what should I do, say everyone is going to have horrible years and be significantly worse than last year? That would be "unrealistic"
TheInfallibleOne
02-05-06, 09:11 PM
so wait a minute, if sheff is better with RISP and giambi has the better obp, wouldnt it make sense to have giambi on base and have sheff drive him in?
SINCE77 2
02-05-06, 09:13 PM
Damon
Jeter
Giambi
Arod
Matsui
Sheff
Posada
Bernie
Cano
Giambi is the best fit for the #3 hole imo. If anything the man can get on base like nobodies business. Arod/Matsui/Sheff will drive in many runs in this scenario.
BobbyMurcerFan
02-05-06, 10:24 PM
I think it seemed like Bernie was hurt last year. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but part of me thinks/hopes that he might get healthy and do better this year. I dont' think the Yanks would have signed him if he was DONE done. It makes me think he might have been hurt, but they expect him to get better this year. They certainly know more about his health status than us.
But they may only have signed him because he is relatively cheap. Maybe watching him from a rookie has effected my feelings, but I am pulling for him.I like these sentiments ;).
Dave Visbeck
02-06-06, 03:11 AM
Damon 310-10-80
Jeter 320-20-80
Arod 315-50-135
Giambi 285-30-110
sheff 290-33-110
MAtsui 300-30-110
Posada 270-20-90
Cano 300-18-80
Williams 250-10-60
Is this the way you see the line-up for most of 2006? This order by chance? With four 100 rbi guys! WOW!
Three at most. :)
BennyTheJetRodriguez
02-06-06, 03:29 AM
If the goal were to maximize Derek Jeter, this argument might have merit. The goal, however, is to maximize the Yankees. What you're saying about Jeter also basically applies to Damon, owever, Jeter will be on in front of Damon more often.If by "basically" you mean "not really at all" then I can't dissagree. Damon is gonna hit the same either way and Jeter should hit better behind Damon, so how would that not be "maximizing" the Yankees.
jimmykey2
02-08-06, 04:55 PM
I see...
Damon
Jeter
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Cano
Posada
Bernie
I put Cano at 7 considering Joe had him around that area in the playoffs and he actually came through in RBI spots. While better than the average MLB catcher, Posada is declining and can't be depended on consistently in big RBI situations. Having Matsui and Cano back to back isn't a big deal because Matsui hits lefties extremely well. Matsui and Giambi would flip against lefties as well as putting Posada and Bernie around Cano.
AndThenThereWasTino
02-08-06, 05:09 PM
Damon
Jeter
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Bernie
Posada
Cano
I see...
Damon
Jeter
A-Rod
Giambi
Sheff
Matsui
Cano
Posada
Bernie
I put Cano at 7 considering Joe had him around that area in the playoffs and he actually came through in RBI spots. While better than the average MLB catcher, Posada is declining and can't be depended on consistently in big RBI situations. Having Matsui and Cano back to back isn't a big deal because Matsui hits lefties extremely well. Matsui and Giambi would flip against lefties as well as putting Posada and Bernie around Cano.
Matsui hit lefties well last year, not the year before or the year before that. In addition, when you alternate lefty/right, there are going to be times when you keep the lefty in the pen all together, and that means that Cano is facing fewer lefties (in other words,you are forcing the oppossing manager to choose between using a pitcher for 1 batter or 2...when it's 2, they are more likely to make that move than when it's 1).
There isn't a lot of difference that you can make with lineup construction, but breaking up left handers might be the biggest thing.
justinvarnes
03-19-06, 01:33 PM
Thought I'd bring this back up since now that Joe has close to his regular players back, we have a better idea of what he will do.
Now keep in mind, this is jsut a ST game with 2 weeks left to go, but here is his lineup for 2/19:
Damon
Jeter
Giambi
A-Rod
Sheff
Matsui
Williams
Cano
Stinnett
Obviously no Posada, but on days when Stinnett, Phillips, Bubba or Cairo are in the lineup, chances are this is gonna be the lineup.
I am glad Sheff is behind A-Rod and Giambi, since those two are on base machines, and Sheff is an RBI machine, plus if his production continues to gradually decline, he'll be more effective with those guys on base in front of him and Matsui behind him.
Other than that, I would rather see Giambi behind A-Rod since A-Rod is the best PURE hitter, but that's nitpicking.
I don't like having two LH hitters, Cano and Damon hitting back to back. It makes it much easier for the opposing manager to preserve his bullpen options in the late innings.
27IsNext
03-19-06, 01:55 PM
If I were in charge, it would look like this:
Jeter
Damon
Rodriguez
Giambi
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Williams/Phillips
With Torre at the helm, it will look like this:
Damon
Jeter
Rodriguez
Giambi
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Williams
Cano
justinvarnes
03-19-06, 02:10 PM
I don't like having two LH hitters, Cano and Damon hitting back to back. It makes it much easier for the opposing manager to preserve his bullpen options in the late innings.
Agreed. I'd like to see Cano bat 8 (7?) since I believe he will be more productive than either Williams or Posada. and the L/R thing is solved by having a switch hitter at 9.
There is no way in heck that Williams stays as the regular DH with those kinds of numbers!! And don't tell me about Torre's loyalty. Way too much is made of that around here. Torre will not play Bernie if he hits like that. Even Bubba can do that well providing much better defense in RF for Shef. And even Phillips can do better.
I think Bernie will hit considerably better than that. I know that you think he is totally washed up. I hope that you hope that I am right and you are wrong -- that your feelings about him are not personal in any way. I also hope that you can acknowledge that you might be wrong, as we all can be.
But I think that he will not be the regular DH even with much better numbers, better than Phillips. The Yanks will make a move for another every day player, if not in spring training, then in the first part of the season.
I`m with you. As much as I`d like to see a reborn Bernie, I don`t think DH should be his by divine right. Management will not tolerate a .640 OPS from the DH slot. So, if he`s going to play, Bernie will have to hit better than that. I think we`re going to see Phillips factor in the mix a little more.
The Dynasty
03-19-06, 03:22 PM
I guess we can go back and forth about Damon and Jeter and who should bat leadoff, but what separates Jeter from Damon is the fact that Damon has an uncanny ability to really allow the rest of his lineup to see the pitches/stuff of a pitcher immediately at the onset of the game. He takes pitches and fouls off tough ones at a significantly better rate than Derek Jeter. This, in my opinion, makes up for his inferior (relatively speaking) on base percentage. Imagine X pitcher:
"Sh*t after an 8-pitch at-bat with Jesus Damon fighting off my best pitches, I now have to face Jeter, ARod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, etc....??????"
We have the potential to eat away at bullpens, and that's why I like Damon setting that tone.
YankeeZim
03-19-06, 03:29 PM
Damon 302-13-71
Jeter 311-17-79
Arod 308-37-108
Giambi 279-32-110
sheff 284-27-98
MAtsui 300-25-101
Posada 265-15-71
Cano 274-13-65
Williams 280-14-60
bobbymagee
03-19-06, 03:48 PM
It really doesnt matter either way but Jeter is a better leadoff hitter as his career OBP is about 40 points higher than Damon's career OBP.
I hope we get somebody to replace Bernies awful bat in the lineup, he is the only blackhole.
Are you saying that Bernie is a Blackhole? Are you a Sox fan?
Are you saying that Bernie is a Blackhole? Are you a Sox fan?
I think he is just being honest. Bernie's OPS was .688 last season, far too low for a DH.
I love Bernie, but he is likely done.
I guess we can go back and forth about Damon and Jeter and who should bat leadoff, but what separates Jeter from Damon is the fact that Damon has an uncanny ability to really allow the rest of his lineup to see the pitches/stuff of a pitcher immediately at the onset of the game. He takes pitches and fouls off tough ones at a significantly better rate than Derek Jeter. This, in my opinion, makes up for his inferior (relatively speaking) on base percentage. Imagine X pitcher:
"Sh*t after an 8-pitch at-bat with Jesus Damon fighting off my best pitches, I now have to face Jeter, ARod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui, etc....??????"
We have the potential to eat away at bullpens, and that's why I like Damon setting that tone.
I happen to agree. Although Jeter was better than Damon last year, Damon has been better over the last 5 years at taking pitches:
Pitches per Plate Appearance
Jeter
2001 - 3.84
2002 - 3.73
2003 - 3.72
2004 - 3.52
2005 - 3.82
Damon
2001 - 3.90
2002 - 3.88
2003 - 4.13
2004 - 4.12
2005 - 3.72
Damon can definitely wear a pitcher out. If it weren't for this stat, I don't think there would be much of an argument for having Damon bat before Jeter.
If you look at the total pitches taken over the last 5 years, Damon has also seen a lot more pitches than Jeter:
Total Pitches
Jeter
2001 - 2527
2002 - 2724
2003 - 2018
2004 - 2536
2005 - 2875
Total = 12,680
Damon
2001 - 2801
2002 - 2727
2003 - 2850
2004 - 2893
2005 - 2557
Total = 13,828
Damon has taken 1,148 more pitchers than Jeter over the last 5 years.
That's a lot of wear and tear on some pitching staffs.
Another indicator - speed - has Damon as potentially more dangerous runner out of the box than Jeter. Over the last 5 years:
Triples
Jeter - 12
Damon - 33
But once on base, not as big a difference as Jeter is a smart base runner:
Stolen Bases
Jeter - 107
Damon - 125
In terms of pure batting average and OBP, Jeter is clearly better.. which is why I think many argue Jeter over Damon in the leadoff spot.
But in terms of "out of the box" explosiveness and disruption, Damon is the better player. He's the guy more likely to go from 1st to 3rd.. to leadoff with a triple... to wear a pitcher down.. can steal a base.. can force more throws over to 1st (that takes a toll on pitchers)... can force a fielder to hurry a throw. Some of these elements are hard to quantify, but we just know as fans that Damon has been a pain in the ass from the leadoff spot... and it's better that he do it for us than against us.
I happen to agree. Although Jeter was better than Damon last year, Damon has been better over the last 5 years at taking pitches:
Pitches per Plate Appearance
Jeter
2001 - 3.84
2002 - 3.73
2003 - 3.72
2004 - 3.52
2005 - 3.82
Damon
2001 - 3.90
2002 - 3.88
2003 - 4.13
2004 - 4.12
2005 - 3.72
Damon can definitely wear a pitcher out. If it weren't for this stat, I don't think there would be much of an argument for having Damon bat before Jeter.
If you look at the total pitches taken over the last 5 years, Damon has also seen a lot more pitches than Jeter:
Total Pitches
Jeter
2001 - 2527
2002 - 2724
2003 - 2018
2004 - 2536
2005 - 2875
Total = 12,680
Damon
2001 - 2801
2002 - 2727
2003 - 2850
2004 - 2893
2005 - 2557
Total = 13,828
Damon has taken 1,148 more pitchers than Jeter over the last 5 years.
That's a lot of wear and tear on some pitching staffs.
The difference amounts to approximately 1 extra pitch per game. Significant? Maybe. Enough to wear a pitcher out? I wouldn't think.
The difference amounts to approximately 1 extra pitch per game. Significant? Maybe. Enough to wear a pitcher out? I wouldn't think.
Yeah, but saying it amounts to one extra pitch per game is as misleading as saying that if:
Player X hit 200 home runs over the last 5 years and
Player Y hit 300 home runs over the last 5 years..
that's it's only .12 more home runs per game.
Obviously there are specific games where these home runs are hit... or where these pitch counts get run up. If, in reality, it was only 1 extra pitch per game, then it would be a meaningless stat.
Arod for President
03-19-06, 04:43 PM
Damon .300/.370/.440
Jeter .310/.385/.460
Arod .300/.400/.580
Giambi .275/.430/.530
sheff .280/.375/.510
MAtsui .300/.370/.490
Posada .260/.340/.430
Cano .310/.335/.465
Williams .230/.310/.330
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Yeah, but saying it amounts to one extra pitch per game is as misleading as saying that if:
Player X hit 200 home runs over the last 5 years and
Player Y hit 300 home runs over the last 5 years..
that's it's only .12 more home runs per game.
Obviously there are specific games where these home runs are hit... or where these pitch counts get run up. If, in reality, it was only 1 extra pitch per game, then it would be a meaningless stat.
Oh, I agree. These things mean much more in particular situations. I'm merely suggesting that over 5 years an average of .224 more pitches per plate appearance for Damon over Jeter should not make him that much more taxing on opposing pitchers than Jeter. Or, at least I wouldn't have thought.
justinvarnes
03-19-06, 04:51 PM
I think he is just being honest. Bernie's OPS was .688 last season, far too low for a DH.
I love Bernie, but he is likely done.
A rested Bernie SHOULD produce more than he did last year. His numbers were better at DH and it was obvious that Bernie was unfit to play the outfield last year. These things lead me to believe his ops will be over .700 this year.
STILL not what you want out of the DH, but this is where it is important to think about Sheff and Giambi and the future. These two guys would be excellent DH's and one of them more than likely will be our DH in 2007.
Unfortunately since we don't have a starting OF to take Sheff's place, Bernie will see significant time at DH. Let's all hope he does well.
That being said, Bernie should bat 8 or 9, depending on how Posada does. If EITHER of them have a decent year and Cano does well, I will be happy with the offensive production from the lower 3rd.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
03-19-06, 07:24 PM
but this is where it is important to think about Sheff and Giambi and the future. These two guys would be excellent DH'sGiambi's stats show him to be a pretty terrible DH.
justinvarnes
03-19-06, 07:32 PM
Giambi's stats show him to be a pretty terrible DH.
However, the alternative is to keep him at 1B for longer than he physically can take it and block Duncan's progress.
I don't want Giambi at 1B after 2007 while Duncan wastes away in the minors, do you?
BennyTheJetRodriguez
03-19-06, 08:26 PM
No, I agree with you, except Giambi not being able to physically take 1B. I was just saying if the stats are any indication Giambi isn't going to be much of an asset as a DH.
bobbymagee
03-19-06, 09:04 PM
I think he is just being honest. Bernie's OPS was .688 last season, far too low for a DH.
I love Bernie, but he is likely done.
I can't agrue with last years stats, but this is a new year. Bernie with rest from the outfield will be concentrate his effort on hitting. I am optimistic that he will improve his on base %.
In a perfect world, the lineup would be a steady rotation of:
Damon cf
Jeter ss
Giambi 1b
A-Rod 3b
Sheffield dh
Matsui lf
Posada c
Cano 2b
KT rf
or
Damon cf
Jeter ss
Giambi 1b
A-Rod 3b
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Posada c
Bernie dh
Cano 2b
or
Damon cf
Jeter ss
Giambi dh
A-Rod 3b
Sheffield rf
Matsui lf
Posada c
Phillips 1b
Cano 2b
No, I agree with you, except Giambi not being able to physically take 1B. I was just saying if the stats are any indication Giambi isn't going to be much of an asset as a DH.
Giambi really only DH'd for a decent length of time when he was injured. That DH stats.could be something to think about when assessing his poor stats as a DH.
Giambi really only DH'd for a decent length of time when he was injured. That DH stats.could be something to think about when assessing his poor stats as a DH.
Granted, Giambi has never really tore it up at DH, but he's struggled at DH with the Yanks - and not so much when he was with Oakland. Then again, injuries, steroids, tumors, vision problems, balky knees and flu-like symptoms were never really an issue until he was with the Yanks, so maybe that explains part of it. Anyway, here are the numbers:
Giambi's DH Stats over the years:
Year - AVG / OBP / SLG / OPS
With Yankees:
2005 - .211/.408/.371/.779
2004 - .222/.361/.404/.765
2003 - .220/.377/.452/.829
2002 - .271/.397/.489/.886
With Oakland:
2001 - .316/.443/.737/1.180
2000 - .259/.396/.506/.902
1999 - .351/.472/.649/.1.121
1998 - .250/.344/.464/.808
1997 - .296/.379/.506/.885
1996 - .273/.353/.477/.830
1995 - .143/.333/.143/.476
In 2002, his first year with the Yanks, he was OK at DH.. but following the injuries and issues, he really struggles. With Oakland, he was better at DH, but still not nearly as effective as when he started at 1B.
But then again, who knows how health or injury led him to those DH appearances, and how that might have impacted his offense at those times.
However, in true Giambi style, regardless of the stuggles - his OBP is always respectable.
justinvarnes
03-20-06, 06:31 AM
Here's an article outlining the dilemma the Yanks will face in a few years. I don't agree with everything the writer says, but his contract, Duncan etc. are all broken down pretty well.
http://msn.blogs.foxsports.com/Morisato/2006/02/27/On_The_Block_Jason_Giambi
I guess I feel that the Yanks have two possible future DH's in Sheff and Giambi. Sheff will be the first to try it out, and Giambi will be next. Maybe in 2008, Sheff is still tearing it up as a DH and Giambi will be traded (as the writer suggests). Either way, as these two slowly fade into mediocrity due to age (whenever that may be, not suggesting it is now), the DH role may help both them AND the Yanks.
Yankees1962
03-20-06, 06:39 AM
Here's an article outlining the dilemma the Yanks will face in a few years. I don't agree with everything the writer says, but his contract, Duncan etc. are all broken down pretty well.
http://msn.blogs.foxsports.com/Morisato/2006/02/27/On_The_Block_Jason_Giambi
I guess I feel that the Yanks have two possible future DH's in Sheff and Giambi. Sheff will be the first to try it out, and Giambi will be next. Maybe in 2008, Sheff is still tearing it up as a DH and Giambi will be traded (as the writer suggests). Either way, as these two slowly fade into mediocrity due to age (whenever that may be, not suggesting it is now), the DH role may help both them AND the Yanks.
The following excerpt is all I need to know about whomever wrote this article. First off, it's a distinct possibility that Duncan comes out of spring training next year with the Yankees and that Hughes makes his Yankee debut sometime next season, not three years from now.
Duncan will likely spend 2006 and about half of 2007 in the minors. If he performs as advertised, it is likely that Duncan could push out Giambi just like a young Mark Teixiera pushed out a aging, but still productive Rafael Palmeiro. If Duncan has a impressive spring training, he could see action as soon as roster expansion, making Giambi’s job a little more stressful.
Another rreason why I think the Yankees will try hard to deal Giambi is to make a push for either Barry Zito or Mark Mulder, both of whom are successful pitchers that will be entering free agency. The Yankees, by that time, will need a shot of young talent in the arm to stay competitive with the young, promising staff of Toronto and Boston’s wealth of young talent. With prospect Philip Hughes still about three years from being ready, either one of them would keep the Yankee rotation afloat.
flymick24
03-20-06, 07:13 AM
The following excerpt is all I need to know about whomever wrote this article. First off, it's a distinct possibility that Duncan comes out of spring training next year with the Yankees and that Hughes makes his Yankee debut sometime next season, not three years from now.
saying that hughes needs 3 more years isn't so outlandish. he was in low A ball last season and hasn't sniffed AA (probably will start the year there.) and if he doesn't react well to the promotion, he could conceivably spend the next 2 years in AA and be promoted to AAA by 2008 (remember, the yankees are taking it very slow with hughes in order to protect his arm.) that would make his ETA mid 2008 or the beginning of 2009 (right in time for the opening of the new yankee stadium.)
i personally think the writer is way off base for saying that hughes is the only prospect in the system that can help anytime soon. clippard and desalvo are both solid, young arms and have legitimate shots of helping the team this year (desalvo more so... clippard might need another year to face better hitting in the minors, but his IPs would indicate that he's ready for a ML workload.)
Here's an article outlining the dilemma the Yanks will face in a few years. I don't agree with everything the writer says, but his contract, Duncan etc. are all broken down pretty well.
http://msn.blogs.foxsports.com/Morisato/2006/02/27/On_The_Block_Jason_Giambi
I guess I feel that the Yanks have two possible future DH's in Sheff and Giambi. Sheff will be the first to try it out, and Giambi will be next. Maybe in 2008, Sheff is still tearing it up as a DH and Giambi will be traded (as the writer suggests). Either way, as these two slowly fade into mediocrity due to age (whenever that may be, not suggesting it is now), the DH role may help both them AND the Yanks.
Giambi has a NTC. He isn't going anywhere if he doesn't want to.
Donnie's Moustache
03-20-06, 10:41 AM
VS. Right Handers
Damon
Jeter
Rodriguez
Giambi
Sheffield
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Williams
VS. Left Handers
Jeter
Damon
Rodriguez
Sheffield
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Williams
Cano
27IsNext
03-20-06, 02:56 PM
Sheffield will not be with the Yankees beyond 2007. When Duncan is ready, he and Giambi will alternate DH and first base duties.
Hughes's ETA is 2007.
justinvarnes
03-20-06, 03:38 PM
Giambi has a NTC. He isn't going anywhere if he doesn't want to.
Yeah, maybe I should have been more clear: I am not endorsing the article, but the article breaks down Giambi's salary, etc. just adding that timeline/salary aspect to the discussion of Giambi's value when Duncan is ready.
In this article in the Post, there is some discussion of whether Nieves is going to be on the roster.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/63411.htm
Interesting quote, however:
Nieves is out of options, and Torre believes he has the skills to be a big-league backup. Baltimore has shown some interest, but if he isn't traded and doesn't stick, Nieves would be lost to free agency.Really? I hadn't heard anything? If he is traded, what can we reasonably expect to get for him?
BillBuckner
03-22-06, 12:24 PM
In this article in the Post, there is some discussion of whether Nieves is going to be on the roster.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/63411.htm
Interesting quote, however:
Really? I hadn't heard anything? If he is traded, what can we reasonably expect to get for him?
I've always have had some interest in him ever since the trade last year. If this is the case, would he be a better fit than Stinett?
SINCE77 2
03-22-06, 12:53 PM
In this article in the Post, there is some discussion of whether Nieves is going to be on the roster.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/63411.htm
Interesting quote, however:
Really? I hadn't heard anything? If he is traded, what can we reasonably expect to get for him?
Matos would be nice.
PoughVirginiaYankee
03-22-06, 01:08 PM
I agree....which is why I switched the top of the list :)
You could also switch A-Rod and Giambi and have the same effect...
Damon L
Jeter R
Giambi L
A-Rod R
then...if you really wanted to keep the rotation going
Matsui L
Sheffield R
Posada S
Cano L
Bernie S
Obviously...Sheff and Matsui might be switched if you don't really care about switching lefty-righty that much.
As for Giambi batting before A-Rod....it doesn't make much sense in terms of having a slower runner Giambi batting before A-Rod...but
1.) Giambi's OBP is pretty darn high...we all know how he can draw those walks - no matter if he's slumping or not.
2.) How many times is having the slower runner Giambi on the basepaths for A-Rod, instead of vice-versa, really going to matter? A double play? Nah... Obviously to beat out a DP, it matters more for the runner going to first to be fast.
Going from 1st to 3rd on a something in the gap? That might be the best argument....but how important do you think that is? Really, I'm not being rhetorical - how many times do you think that would screw up the basepaths?
yankeefan24
03-22-06, 05:46 PM
A-Rod hitting 5th tonight. What does he have to do to hit 3 or 4 maybe hit like 90 homeruns in a season. Torre has never let A-Rod be comfortable in the batting order. He moves him up and down.
Iknowcool
03-22-06, 05:53 PM
Trade Giambi to the Dodgers for J.D. Drew (Depending on how Giambi and Drews respective 2006 seasons go). Swap two high salaried injury prone players who can be great run producers. Except with Drew, he can play RF, a position that we need. Giambi's getting paid about 20 million a year, Drew 15, with one extra year on his contract that evens the money out.
The Dodgers already have an awesome 1st baseman, though :D
Can someone explain why does Torre bat Sheffield before Arod. Is this just for spring?
The ideal 3-4-5 lineup would be
Arod
Giambi
Shef
38Special
03-24-06, 07:47 AM
I'd rather have Matsui before Sheffield
YankClipper5
03-24-06, 09:22 AM
Can someone explain why does Torre bat Sheffield before Arod. Is this just for spring?
The ideal 3-4-5 lineup would be
Arod
Giambi
Shef
I think your sample could work out well but I have been thinking a lot about putting Giambi in the 3 spot since he gets on base so well. Granted he would keep A-rod as a station to station runner, I think it may create a load of RBI opportunities and make it a very tough time getting out of the 1-3 batters. I wrestle with this idea because I am not sure that Giambi's on base tendencies so far outweigh those of A-Rods that it would be worth slowing A-Rod down on the basepaths.
whalers
03-24-06, 09:46 AM
I've always have had some interest in him ever since the trade last year. If this is the case, would he be a better fit than Stinett?
Even though Joe keeps saying posada will catch RJ this season I think its pretty obvioius why the Yankees picked up Stinnett. He was RJ's catcher in zona. I am pretty sure Stinnett will end up with the same duties as Flarehty had last season.
yankeefan24
03-24-06, 10:31 AM
Last Night batting order I liked because your best two hitters were hitting 3 and 4.
3 sheffield
4 A-Rod
5.Giambi
6 Matsui
whalers
03-24-06, 10:34 AM
Last Night batting order I liked because your best two hitters were hitting 3 and 4.
3 sheffield
4 A-Rod
5.Giambi
6 Matsui
I'd rather have Arod 3 and giambi 4 getting your two best OBP guys ahead of Sheff then Matsui.
Jeter
Damon
Giambi
A-Rod
Sheff
Matsui
freebubba
03-24-06, 10:38 AM
Write this down: If both Sheff and Giambi are still playing for the Yankees, I will eat my hat. Promise.
aeromac76
03-24-06, 10:57 AM
Last Night batting order I liked because your best two hitters were hitting 3 and 4.
3 sheffield
4 A-Rod
5.Giambi
6 Matsui
I think I'd rather break up the lefties and righties, make matching up more difficult for opposing managers..
Damon
Jeter
Giambi
Arod
Matsui
Sheff
Posada
Cano
Bernie
Other than the switch hitters, you never have two of the same in a row ever..
With a guy like Damon looking at 8 or 9 pitches every at bat, this could get exciting.
Excellent point about Damon. That's one of the responsibilities of a leadoff player. Get the other guys a look at what the starting pitcher has. Jeter, for the most part, did not always take 8 or 9 piches when he led off last year.
27IsNext
03-24-06, 11:53 AM
Jeter R
Damon L
Rodriguez R
Giambi L
Sheffield R
Matsui L
Posada S
Cano L
Williams/Phillips S/R
RhodyYanksFan
03-24-06, 12:02 PM
Here's my guess (at least for opening night).
Damon L
Jeter R
Rodriguez R
Giambi L
Sheffield R
Matsui L
Posada S
Cano L
Williams S
If they're facing a lefty pitcher, I might put Jeter leadoff.
Here's my guess (at least for opening night).
Damon L
Jeter R
Rodriguez R
Giambi L
Sheffield R
Matsui L
Posada S
Cano L
Williams S
If they're facing a lefty pitcher, I might put Jeter leadoff.
This is the lineup that Torre should be putting out there everyday, while flip-flopping Jeter and Damon depending on who is pitching.
yankeefan24
03-31-06, 07:10 PM
Tonight again the manager has A-Rod batting 5th. A-Rod hit the best in July and August when he was batting 4th last year. WHen A-rod was moved to the 2nd hole I did not like it because he is a cleanup hitter. IF you remember he bated 2 in the playoffs and that did not work out. If you put him in the 5th hole it takes his confidence totally out because he thinks of himself as the 3 or 4 hitter. I would really like A-Rod to step up and tell the manager that every top slugger hitter in baseball bats 3 or 4. The A-Rod bashers in the media will soon have another thing to write about. Again when you make 252 million dollars right or wrong you do not bat 5th. How is it going to look when the 23 year old baseman on the mets is going to bat 3rd but A-Rod can't bat 3 or 4 on the yankees. Every great hitter in the history bats 3 or 4. Like A-Rod or not he earned the right to be batting 3 or 4.
ICEBERG18
03-31-06, 08:30 PM
Somone tell Torre that Cano should be batting above Bernie.
FMITK2005
03-31-06, 08:33 PM
Somone tell Torre that Cano should be batting above Bernie.
I agree, and it will also stop Cano and Damon from batting back to back.
JeterRodriguezSheff
03-31-06, 08:39 PM
Jeter
Damon
Giambi
A-Rod
Sheff
Matsui
what he said
jimmykey2
03-31-06, 08:44 PM
Tonight again the manager has A-Rod batting 5th. A-Rod hit the best in July and August when he was batting 4th last year. WHen A-rod was moved to the 2nd hole I did not like it because he is a cleanup hitter. IF you remember he bated 2 in the playoffs and that did not work out. If you put him in the 5th hole it takes his confidence totally out because he thinks of himself as the 3 or 4 hitter. I would really like A-Rod to step up and tell the manager that every top slugger hitter in baseball bats 3 or 4. The A-Rod bashers in the media will soon have another thing to write about. Again when you make 252 million dollars right or wrong you do not bat 5th. How is it going to look when the 23 year old baseman on the mets is going to bat 3rd but A-Rod can't bat 3 or 4 on the yankees.
Uh... A-Rod actually posted his highest BA and slugging percentages last season when he batted in the 2nd and 5th spots. FYI, that's all.
yankeefan24
03-31-06, 08:47 PM
Uh... A-Rod actually posted his highest BA and slugging percentages last season when he batted in the 2nd and 5th spots. FYI, that's all.
His key clutch hits came in july and august when he was batting 4th.
JeffWeaverFan
03-31-06, 10:28 PM
Excellent point about Damon. That's one of the responsibilities of a leadoff player. Get the other guys a look at what the starting pitcher has. Jeter, for the most part, did not always take 8 or 9 piches when he led off last year.
Jeter saw more pitches per AB than Damon did last year.
JeffWeaverFan
03-31-06, 10:29 PM
Last Night batting order I liked because your best two hitters were hitting 3 and 4.
3 sheffield
4 A-Rod
5.Giambi
6 Matsui
You also would go lefty, righty, righty right, lefty, lefty in the lineup. Talk about making it easy for a manager to matchup in late innings.
38Special
03-31-06, 10:53 PM
But Matsui hits lefties just as good (if not better) than righties. I'd love for the stupid managers to continue to bring up lefties for Matsui
Yankees1962
04-03-06, 04:39 AM
have to check Giambi's splits against lefties, but I like this lineup.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/405381p-343296c.html</p>
yankeefan24
04-03-06, 06:46 AM
Tonight's opening day lineup I like the best because your best 4 hitters are hitting 1-4.
Jeter saw more pitches per AB than Damon did last year.
Last year, yes. But over the last 5 years, No.. Damon is better:
Pitches per Plate Appearance
Jeter
2001 - 3.84
2002 - 3.73
2003 - 3.72
2004 - 3.52
2005 - 3.82
Damon
2001 - 3.90
2002 - 3.88
2003 - 4.13
2004 - 4.12
2005 - 3.72
Tonight's opening day lineup I like the best because your best 4 hitters are hitting 1-4.
Acutallly Damon is not one of the four best hitters, but the Yankees' lineup is so strong, where the first six hitters bat probably doesn't matter much.
2005 VORP
A-Rod 99.7
Jeter 66.3
Giambi 58.4
Sheffield 56.5
Masui 53.0
Damon 49.2
The Dynasty
04-03-06, 08:40 AM
Seeing our starting lineup just made me wanna fast forward to the first pitch.
AMYanks
04-03-06, 01:56 PM
I would prefer Rodriguez-Giambi-Sheffield, but Torre doesn't like to bat A-Rod third. The lineup for tonight isn't bad, though.
ICEBERG18
04-03-06, 05:50 PM
Lined up and at 'em: Blessed with an array of potent hitters, Torre considers his batting order so immutable, the manager made a big deal of announcing it -- even to the players. He convened a preworkout clubhouse meeting for that purpose. The lineup he announced shortly thereafter was most notable for him settling on Gary Sheffield, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi as its 3-4-5 heart. Torre's message to the players: "This is how we'll lineup. Live with it." He had toyed with alternatives to having the two left-handed batters -- Giambi and No. 6 hitter Hideki Matsui -- back-to-back, but ultimately decided that "doesn't bother me." The Yankees are due to face Oakland left-hander Barry Zito in the opener, but Torre indicated the lineup would have been identical against a right-hander. And, with the exception of injuries and rotating out people for rest days, it may stay identical all season. "An 0-for-5 or 0-for-10 by someone isn't going to affect it," Torre said. "One thing you learn is that a .290 hitter is going to hit .290 -- after a whole season of 620 at-bats."
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060402&content_id=1380709&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060402&content_id=1380709&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)
acidsin
04-03-06, 07:06 PM
I'm not sure how big of a fan I am of this lineup although you could draw names out of a hat and have a good lineup...
I have no problem with Matsui most likely getting matched up against left handed releivers.... But let's take a look at the whole rest of the order after A-Rod..
Giambi:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="hi">.261</td><td class="hi">.418</td><td class="hi">.464</td><td class="hi">.882</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.276</td><td class="">.451</td><td class="">.570</td><td class="">1.021</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="">.234</td><td class="">.388</td><td class="">.437</td><td class="">.825</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.255</td><td class="">.415</td><td class="">.523</td><td class="">.938</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Matsui:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003-2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="">.304</td><td class="">.363</td><td class="">.462</td><td class="">.825</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.294</td><td class="">.373</td><td class="">.494</td><td class="">.867</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Posada:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003-2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="">.283</td><td class="">.378</td><td class="">.503</td><td class="">.881</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.266</td><td class="">.390</td><td class="">.464</td><td class="">.854</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Bernie:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003-2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="">.256</td><td class="">.364</td><td class="">.385</td><td class="">.749</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.259</td><td class="">.343</td><td class="">.415</td><td class="">.758</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Cano:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="">.270</td><td class="">.304</td><td class="">.358</td><td class="">.662</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="hi">.307</td><td class="hi">.326</td><td class="hi">.497</td><td class="hi">.823</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Damon:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003-2005 vs Left
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td class="hi">.293</td><td class="hi">.350</td><td class="hi">.413</td><td class="hi">.763</td></tr></tbody> </table>
2003-2005 vs Right
<table class="tablehead" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td class="">.300</td><td class="">.371</td><td class="">.454</td><td class="">.825</td></tr></tbody> </table>
So, what do we see here? It seems Torre wasn't spot on when talking about Giambi and Matsui killing left handed pitching. Giambi, in fact, is quite a bit worse, and Matsui, while have a 10 point higher BA, has a lower OPS. That right there makes me not a huge fan of this lineup.
Posada, suprisingly to me, is a bit better against left handed pitching. All though not a ton. Bernie is a bit worse against left handed pitching, but the difference is negligible.
Cano is a TON worse against left handed pitching. Enticing lefties to pitch to him by stacking him with another left handed batter is crazy. Although the sample size is just one year. Damon is also noticibly worse against left handed pitching.
What do I make out of this? While a good lineup due to the talent, it is not as good as it could be. Giambi needs to be protected be right handed batters. He is a huge masher and on base machine. It is just insane to not have him ahead of big bats, protected by righties, and not followed be Bern/Posada.
While Cano is not going to get a lot of protection due to that whole section of the lineup being lefties/switch he doesn't need opposing managers to have a big blinking sign saying, "Use a left handed reliever against me and Damon!" Even though it was just one year, he has a huge difference in left/right splits. Bernie just being average against both left and right handed pitching is better for splitting him and Damon up than just stacking them together.
What lineup would I use? Glad you asked! ;)
Damon
Jeter
Giambi
A-Rod
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Bernie
While it could possibly better to drop Sheff to 6 and up Matsui to 5 while upping Cano to 7 and dropping Posada to 8 this would never happen... Althought I don't know if I would want to bat Sheff that low. I can almost guarantee Sheff would throw a fit being the number 6 batter. Also, I see no reason to bring the Damon/ Jeter 1/2 discussion into this. There is no way in hell Torre will ever bat Jeter lead off and Damon 2nd. Even if it could possibly be the right thing or not it just won't happen.
If I am an opposing manager what would I do? Bring in my best left handed reliever for Giambi through Damon. That is far to easy of a decision. If I had to make one change in the lineup what would it be? Bat Bernie 9 and Cano 8. That to me is just the biggest glaring flaw in the lineup.
It will still be a great lineup. They will still score a ton of runs, but with a couple changes it could be ever better. A difference of 7 runs through the season could be the difference between the playoffs/division depending on how things go. ...And that is enough of me being long winded. Can't wait for the game tonight! :D
JeffWeaverFan
04-03-06, 07:09 PM
Lined up and at 'em: Blessed with an array of potent hitters, Torre considers his batting order so immutable, the manager made a big deal of announcing it -- even to the players. He convened a preworkout clubhouse meeting for that purpose. The lineup he announced shortly thereafter was most notable for him settling on Gary Sheffield, Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi as its 3-4-5 heart. Torre's message to the players: "This is how we'll lineup. Live with it." He had toyed with alternatives to having the two left-handed batters -- Giambi and No. 6 hitter Hideki Matsui -- back-to-back, but ultimately decided that "doesn't bother me." The Yankees are due to face Oakland left-hander Barry Zito in the opener, but Torre indicated the lineup would have been identical against a right-hander. And, with the exception of injuries and rotating out people for rest days, it may stay identical all season. "An 0-for-5 or 0-for-10 by someone isn't going to affect it," Torre said. "One thing you learn is that a .290 hitter is going to hit .290 -- after a whole season of 620 at-bats."
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060402&content_id=1380709&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060402&content_id=1380709&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)
I just don't understand why you would make it easier on opposing managers by putting all your rightys and leftys together. Our 2-4 is R-R-R and our 5-6 is L-L. Instead we could go Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui - making the manager use more relievers if he wants to bring in a lefty to face Giambi.
JeffWeaverFan
04-03-06, 07:16 PM
acidsin - great post. The only thing about it is that although Bernie has been only slightly worse vs leftys over the last 3 seasons, he was MUCH worse last year because of the shoulder issues. Last year he hit .231/.305/.286 against leftys. If this continues, he should never be in the lineup vs. leftys.
jimmykey2
04-03-06, 07:24 PM
I just don't understand why you would make it easier on opposing managers by putting all your rightys and leftys together. Our 2-4 is R-R-R and our 5-6 is L-L. Instead we could go Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Sheff, Matsui - making the manager use more relievers if he wants to bring in a lefty to face Giambi.
It's not that hard to understand. Most of A-Rod's production the last 2 seasons has come when batting behind Jeter and in front of Sheffield, although they usually were 1, 2, and 3. Sheff is the best hitter with RISP on the team. It's pretty apparent Torre's trust to drive in runs lies mainly in Gary. Giambi is obviously the most hurt by this scenario, but the argument can be made that he will face LOOGYs regardless of who bats in front of or behind him. Matsui drives in runs like it's nothing and having Giambi's OBP in front of him is terrific. Also, he had the AL's highest BA for a lefty against LHP. I like this lineup a lot.
Forgot to add this... how many teams have multiple QUALITY lefty relievers anyway? As an opposing manager, you have to decide to use him on Cano/Damon or Giambi/Matsui.
JeffWeaverFan
04-03-06, 07:54 PM
It's not that hard to understand. Most of A-Rod's production the last 2 seasons has come when batting behind Jeter and in front of Sheffield, although they usually were 1, 2, and 3. Sheff is the best hitter with RISP on the team. It's pretty apparent Torre's trust to drive in runs lies mainly in Gary. Giambi is obviously the most hurt by this scenario, but the argument can be made that he will face LOOGYs regardless of who bats in front of or behind him. Matsui drives in runs like it's nothing and having Giambi's OBP in front of him is terrific. Also, he had the AL's highest BA for a lefty against LHP. I like this lineup a lot.
Forgot to add this... how many teams have multiple QUALITY lefty relievers anyway? As an opposing manager, you have to decide to use him on Cano/Damon or Giambi/Matsui.
Well, that is just not true. A-Rod has been incredibly similar wherever he bats in the lineup. Last year, he had a 1.046 OPS batting 2nd, 1.022 OPS batting 3rd, .956 OPS batting 4th, and 1.189 OPS batting 5th. In 2004, he had a .893 OPS batting 2nd, .945 OPS batting 3rd, and a .815 OPS batting 4th. If Torre was going by those numbers (which he obviously is not doing), then he is picking A-Rod's worst spot over the last 2 years.
Sheff will get just as many, if not more, chances to drive in runs in the 5 spot than in the 3 spot.
Gary is also hurt in this scenerio. Had you split up A-Rod and Sheff with Giambi, then either Giambi would see more rightys or Sheff would see more leftys (actually, both would happen).
Matsui would be in the 6th spot either way. Last year he hit better vs. leftys, but the 2 seasons before he had hit worse vs. leftys.
I don't care how many teams have quality leftys. If you split up A-Rod and Sheff, then the lefty can only be used vs. Giambi and then would have to be taken out - unless you want to keep him in vs. Sheff, which I think we both can agree on would be something we would like to see a lot of. Now, opposing managers will never have to do that as Sheff is sandwiched between 2 rightys.
I would much rather Giambi and Sheff were switched, but w/e, I'll deal with it until whoever Oakland's 2 lefty specialists are strike out Giambi on 2 successive passes through the lineup because they know they don't have to face Arod afterward.
I want Cano and Bernie switched, actually Jeter and Damon too, but that's another story.
Acutallly Damon is not one of the four best hitters, but the Yankees' lineup is so strong, where the first six hitters bat probably doesn't matter much.
2005 VORP
A-Rod 99.7
Jeter 66.3
Giambi 58.4
Sheffield 56.5
Masui 53.0
Damon 49.2
That's VORP by position, however. Damon is an even worse hitter compared to the rest (except for Jeter, who gets a similar positional bonus to Damon) than these numbers indicate because he gets bonus runs for being at a weak-hitting position.
acidsin
04-03-06, 08:39 PM
acidsin - great post. The only thing about it is that although Bernie has been only slightly worse vs leftys over the last 3 seasons, he was MUCH worse last year because of the shoulder issues. Last year he hit .231/.305/.286 against leftys. If this continues, he should never be in the lineup vs. leftys.
Thanks JWF. I was not aware of that. I only looked at Giambi's 2005 and Cano's 2005 for obvious reasons. Although I would like to say if Bernie stays out of the field, and I hope he does, I think he could have a solid year offensively. Also, his arm should not have as much wear and tear. Nonetheless, his 2005 numbers still need to be taken into account. Good point.
Without hitting on the rest of what you two are talking about, as I am getting ready for supper, I would like to quickly hit on the lefty reliever thing. Although there is not an abundance of solid left handed relievers that is no reason to completely ignore them. If I am an opposing manager with a good lefty reliever I don't think twice about letting him eat up middle innings facing Giambi to Damon. Not even a second thought. That is two innings of exploiting an opposing team while not running down multiple guys in your pen.
Given, even with Giambi being moved up and protected by right handed batters along with switching Cano/Bernie, there is still a big portion of the lineup that is weaker vs lefties. Still better than 6 straight.. one of the 6 being Posada even though he is a bit better against lefties.
Damon
Jeter
Giambi
A-Rod
Sheff
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Bernie
I agree, and I especially like having Cano after Posada. Posada will continue to take walks and have a good OBP, and since Cano has more power than Bernie right now he is a much better candidate to drive Posada in. I really really wish Joe would DH Philips against lefties and hit him 9th to protect Cano. We'll see tonight (weather permitting) how easy a time Zito has with Cano-Damon.
heyabbott
04-04-06, 03:33 PM
Personally, I like Giambi 3 and Shef 5 because Giambi has a better eye and isn't afraid to draw a walk in front of anyone, let alone ARod. Jason'll will see alot more pitches to hit as a lefty in front of ARod, rather than in front of Matsui.
BTW The best part of having Damon is that Torre can't bat ARod 2nd. What a horrible thing that was.
DaPip1998
04-04-06, 04:20 PM
Personally, I like Giambi 3 and Shef 5 because Giambi has a better eye and isn't afraid to draw a walk in front of anyone, let alone ARod. Jason'll will see alot more pitches to hit as a lefty in front of ARod, rather than in front of Matsui.
BTW The best part of having Damon is that Torre can't bat ARod 2nd. What a horrible thing that was.
Also, Shef's more equipped to 'clean up' the guys on base in front of him, while Jason's more likely to BE on one of those on base to be driven in.
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