View Full Version : Are we trading a pitcher?
With RJ, Moose, Pavano, Chacon, Wang, and Wright wouldn't everyone expect the Yanks to be making a trade? We just signed Dotel, so I really can't see them moving any of these guys to the bullpen. Is it possible we'll keep all these guys?
Yankeeah
12-21-05, 09:40 PM
No, its not
SP
RJ
Moose
Chacon
Pavano
Wright
Wang
Small
RP
Mo
Sturtze
Farns
Villone
Myers
Proctor
and Dotel when he returns
13 pitches is 2 too many
My guess would be Sturtze and Proctor would be the two to go
JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 09:41 PM
Wright could move to the pen and we could trade a guy that is in the pen now. At the very least, when Dotel is ready, one of the guys will be traded (unless there are major injuries).
Personally, I do think we will trade a pitcher (no clue who - maybe Pavano or Sturtze) but not till much later.
bleachersown
12-21-05, 09:42 PM
Let's trade for bench depth, eh?
Yankees1962
12-21-05, 09:49 PM
Cashman will roll the dice and wait to trade any pitcher until later this spring when, hopefully, the trade value of their pitchers is at it's highest level. The Yankees will trade for some more prospects, another productive bat or both.
The FUTURE
12-21-05, 10:03 PM
Let's trade for bench depth, eh?
I think we should use find a way to make a deal to improve our starting pitching staff
(It seems impossible, I know)
but the bench can easily be improved via FA's ;)
Cashman will roll the dice and wait to trade any pitcher until later this spring when, hopefully, the trade value of their pitchers is at it's highest level. The Yankees will trade for some more prospects, another productive bat or both.
I think the market is actually better now. What you hope to gain by waiting for ST is that someone gets hurt. In order for that to be effective, someone has to get hurt on a team that can both take on salary and who has players you want. Right now, we know that there are teams who will likely take pitching for things the Yankees want.
Dr. Gonzo
12-21-05, 10:14 PM
I think small will be released after a couple of months. I think he will stink.
longtimeyankeefan
12-21-05, 10:21 PM
I think small will be released after a couple of months. I think he will stink.
Even if Small stinks in ST, some team will be interested in him. He won't be making much money and his performance last season will raise hopes.
He gets traded, not released, if he is not on the 25-man roster out of Tampa.
The FUTURE
12-21-05, 10:41 PM
Until Small proves otherwise, He is the PERFECT Longman:rockin:
YankeeStripes
12-21-05, 11:01 PM
wait til a big name starting pitcher gets hurt in that stupid WBC and then deal them either wright or pavano, and get a non-dinosaur to play DH
Yankee26t
12-21-05, 11:25 PM
My pitching rotation
Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Aaron Small - Small was amazing... gotta see if he can pitch well again - worth a chance
Shawn Chacon
Chien-Ming Wang
Octavio Dotel
Mariano Rivera
Brown, Wright, Pavano can all go...
NYDCYankee
12-21-05, 11:28 PM
My pitching rotation
Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Aaron Small - Small was amazing... gotta see if he can pitch well again - worth a chance
Shawn Chacon
Chien-Ming Wang
Octavio Dotel
Mariano Rivera
Brown, Wright, Pavano can all go...
Brown who? The guy that kicks it with Linus is a cartoon.
ryanm1058123
12-21-05, 11:33 PM
I was checking Cots and under Pavano I noticed it said NTC.. does he have a full no trade clause? Because that would suck.
JeffWeaverFan
12-21-05, 11:35 PM
I was checking Cots and under Pavano I noticed it said NTC.. does he have a full no trade clause? Because that would suck.
I'm almost positive that he does not.
nyyanksfan20
12-21-05, 11:53 PM
I hope we trade Wright, hes the one guy I really don't want on this team. Pavano I still at least have faith in him that he may have a pretty good year. Wright I just don't see it for.
allstarcano22
12-22-05, 12:05 AM
I think we could end up trading pitching to fill our DH/1B hole, it seems liek Bernie is signed to bea "role player" as it has been said a million times, and not to be in the lineup every game as the DH. I would rather we get a Dh thru a trade seeing as how thew FA market is kind of slim and thta way we can get rid of some pitching, i wouldn't mind to see sturtze and proctor go, actually i want them out. I think we should still give Wright a chance, he was injured a lot last year too, and when he did come back he had bats and balls flying at him,maybe his luck changes this year?
I don't think we'll trade any of them until we know what Clemens is gonna do.
Zimmers' Helmet
12-22-05, 01:31 AM
I don't think we'll trade any of them until we know what Clemens is gonna do.
Exactly. If Clemens signs; I would have to believe that Pavano would become expendable.
Spiker101
12-22-05, 01:33 AM
Patience, patience, patience. The Yanks should just sit back now and wait for developments, primarily to find out what the Sox do now. Still two months to go before ST even begins.
Stupid Flanders
12-22-05, 01:37 AM
No. The ONLY possibility of a big name pitcher now would be Clemens, which would mean that we'd acquire prospects in return (BTW I am for some reason a huge fan of this option since it only costs money and not even a pick).
I think that Cashman sits back and keeps tabs on the market for teams interested in Pitching help. He then trades 1 of the starters, one not named Wang or Chacon (or Randy or Moose) for young kids.
Similar to the deal with Womack to the Reds, which was a super deal. I really like Howard's bat.
Babe Rules
12-22-05, 05:39 AM
Let's trade for bench depth, eh?
We could trade for an OF and make Sheff the full time DH.
yankeebot
12-22-05, 05:46 AM
If we have learned anything so far this season it should be that good things come to those that wait. I am confident that the pitching rotation will get a tweak or two but I have the patience and confidence in Cash. Let him do his thing.
Saxmania
12-22-05, 07:31 AM
Bench depth would be very welcome - our bench last year was woeful, and there's little reason to suppose that the 2006 bench as currently composed would be much better. Let's look at Durazo, DaVanon (probably already signed elsewhere), Michaels, Gathright as possibilities for some of our lesser bullpen arms.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
junkman73
12-22-05, 08:17 AM
With the injury history of Wright and Pavano I think Cashman keeps everyone around thru ST and then evaluates. Moose has had elbow problems in the past 2 years, Randy has a history of missing a start here and there and we don't know how Wang will react to a full Major league season. I think they find a way to keep them around and make moves as the season progresses.
Cape Cod Yankee
12-22-05, 08:25 AM
I think small will be released after a couple of months. I think he will stink.
positive attitude is tremendous.
I really, really hope we can get Durazo and Michaels.
BigBats
12-22-05, 08:43 AM
I'm up for ridding Pavano AND Wright, but I doubt that'll happen.
FelipePArantes
12-22-05, 08:55 AM
There's no reason to keep 13 pitchers in the team. I hope the trade Pavano (ridiculous longer contract than Wright one) for some young blood.
I think We must have in mind this team doesn't have DH and the bench still weak. This is a good chance do unload him. I also think he isn't a good player.
Yankees13
12-22-05, 09:02 AM
I don't think we'll trade any of them until we know what Clemens is gonna do.
With the signing of Damon the Yankees are probably close to their budget limit, we won't be seeing Clemens on the Yankees is my guess.
tinodabambino
12-22-05, 09:36 AM
yeah but if we sign clemens wouldn't we trade pavano or someone to free up the money? I can only assume that we'd have to
Yankeeah
12-22-05, 09:41 AM
My pitching rotation
Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Aaron Small - Small was amazing... gotta see if he can pitch well again - worth a chance
Shawn Chacon
Chien-Ming Wang
Octavio Dotel
Mariano Rivera
Brown, Wright, Pavano can all go...
Small as our number 3 starter? Look, he had a great season last year, but it was most likely a fluke, especially when you look carefully at his numbers. If he can continue his success, then you can start him.
Patience, patience, patience. The Yanks should just sit back now and wait for developments, primarily to find out what the Sox do now. Still two months to go before ST even begins.
We shouldn't counter on what the Sox do. That's how we get in trouble and do something stupid.
yanksphan
12-22-05, 09:45 AM
We could trade for an OF and make Sheff the full time DH.
Or just sign Juan Encarnacion and not trade any youth away...
RhodyYanksFan
12-22-05, 09:47 AM
yeah but if we sign clemens wouldn't we trade pavano or someone to free up the money? I can only assume that we'd have to
Who would take Pavano without making the Yankees pay at least 1/2 of his remaning salary?
The FUTURE
12-22-05, 10:04 AM
Or just sign Juan Encarnacion and not trade any youth away...
Interesting...it might work...but only if we could get him for a reasonable price...but I think some teams like the Nats,Royals,Blue Jays,and Astros would all throw out more money and year than we would be willing to offer. Otherwise I say we stick with a guys like Byrnes,DaVanon or Restovich. ;)
Patience, patience, patience. The Yanks should just sit back now and wait for developments, primarily to find out what the Sox do now. Still two months to go before ST even begins.That's the ticket. Don't forget that it's likely somebody won't answer the bell in April and we'll be needing all the arms, but if they're all healthy we can hold other teams hostage who are desperate for starters. I'm trusting Cashman more and more with this type of strategy.
YankClipper5
12-22-05, 10:49 AM
I am almost certain someone will be dealt, possibly even 2. I think we can probably deal Small for a decent prospect similar to the Womack deal. I would love to see Pavano dealt but Wright seems the likely candidate given his contract can be bought out after this season because of his DL time. I would say trade Small right around ST or a little before so he can't hurt his value which is probably at or near its highest right now and it would be unreasonable to think he pitches at an even higher level. I say hang onto Pavano or Wright and see about dealing them towards the trade deadline and hoping they stay healthy that long. I think that an injury or just desperation could cause a team to offer a great deal for one of them at that time. Holding them also lets the pitching surplus act as an insurance policy to injury. I would like to see a 1b/dh acquired somewhere in the mix and perhaps some decent prospects.
conkermaniac
12-22-05, 11:25 AM
I don't even believe Small is signed for the 06 season. We can't trade him unless we sign him first...and in that case, wouldn't a team just sign Small themselves?
rivera,s cutter
12-22-05, 11:26 AM
Until Small proves otherwise, He is the PERFECT Longman:rockin:i second that!
YankClipper5
12-22-05, 11:48 AM
I don't even believe Small is signed for the 06 season. We can't trade him unless we sign him first...and in that case, wouldn't a team just sign Small themselves?
He is not an FA since he was offered a contract, he will need to be signed but he is under our control if I understand correctly.
StatenIslandYankee
12-22-05, 11:55 AM
I think small will be released after a couple of months. I think he will stink.
He will get traded before released. Even if he stinks out of the gate he will have trade value based on 2005.
Yanksince66
12-22-05, 11:56 AM
Does anyone else remember when going into spring training with six or seven starting pitchers was the norm instead of the exception? The idea is you'd find five healthy, reasonably effective starters out of the group.
Also, there is enough question about Dotel's health, and Sturtze's and Small's roles, to hold on to what they've got.
I don't see the Yanks trading away any pitching until well into spring training. Particularly when you hear such things as the Rangers wanting Wang for G. Matthews Jr.
StatenIslandYankee
12-22-05, 12:00 PM
Does anyone else remember when going into spring training with six or seven starting pitchers was the norm instead of the exception? The idea is you'd find five healthy, reasonably effective starters out of the group.
Also, there is enough question about Dotel's health, and Sturtze's and Small's roles, to hold on to what they've got.
I don't see the Yanks trading away any pitching until well into spring training. Particularly when you hear such things as the Rangers wanting Wang for G. Matthews Jr.
I needed a good laugh. heh!
jcan411
12-22-05, 12:01 PM
Even if Small stinks in ST, some team will be interested in him. He won't be making much money and his performance last season will raise hopes.
He gets traded, not released, if he is not on the 25-man roster out of Tampa.
No one, and I mean no one, will ever trade anything for Small. He caught lightning in a bottle last year, but every single GM knows he is a lucky below average pitcher. I can't see him making the team after ST. Mark my words...
I don't see the Yanks trading away any pitching until well into spring training. Particularly when you hear such things as the Rangers wanting Wang for G. Matthews Jr.
Wow, now I see how big the Damon signing really is!
LeapsNbounds
12-22-05, 12:29 PM
My pitching rotation
Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Aaron Small - Small was amazing... gotta see if he can pitch well again - worth a chance
Shawn Chacon
Chien-Ming Wang
Octavio Dotel
Mariano Rivera
Brown, Wright, Pavano can all go...
Brown is gone, and let's give Pavano a chance........he was still injured and showed some flashes of Quality Starts, maybe the coaching changes will help him with Guidry and Kerrigan
Spiker101
12-22-05, 12:57 PM
I don't even believe Small is signed for the 06 season. We can't trade him unless we sign him first...and in that case, wouldn't a team just sign Small themselves?
You raise a good question. I don't have any idea what his contract status is, though I assume he's under the Yanks control.
yogibuck
12-22-05, 12:57 PM
I don't see us trading away any pitching unless somebody knocks our block off with a great deal.
Randy 40+
Moose ~38
Pavano injured much of last year
Wright injured much of his career
Small caught lightening in the bottle
Wang Rookie who has had injuries
Chacon inconsistent with Colo.
I'd say we'd be lucky to have 5 quality starters at any one point in time with that group. It seems every year we go in with 6 starters (except last but Wang and others stepped up) and we always use them all.
However, if somebody really is desperate and wants starting pitching, we may come off MAYBE one, for the right return. No way we trade away two. Unless say Henn/Desalvo/White/etc. forces their way in.
I think we are about done. Maybe a utility infielder. But I feel good.
Quality lineup.
1. Jeter ss
2. Damon cf
3. A-Rod 3B
4. Giambi 1b
5. Sheff RF
6. Matsui LF
7. Posada C
8. Bernie DH
9. Cano 2b
Quality Rotation
1. RJ
2. moose
3. Pavano
4. Chacon
5. Wang
6. Wright
Quality Bullpen
Cl. Mo
Setup. Farns
L. Villone
L. Myers
7th Sturtze
Long Small
Others in reserve that could move up - Proctor, Henn, Smith, Desalvo, Depaula, TJ Beam, Clippard, White, Karstens, Manning.
Bench-
Dh-4th OF- Bernie (can play all three in a pinch)
5th OF - Bubba (can play all three in a pinch - cheap)
C- Stinnett
1B- Andy Phillips
Utl Inf?
I think the deals you may see made will be very minor. Maybe trading off some of the arms that haven't made it yet but may be on the cusp (mentioned above under reserves) for younger arms with higher ceilings.
Or maybe some of the C's and OF's we have at AAA for younger prospects.
Roster:
Pitchers: (12)
Rj
Moose
Pavano
Wang
Chacon
Wright
Mo
Kyle
Villone
Myers
Sturtze
Small
Position Players: (13)
C- Po
C-Stins
1b- Giambi
1b- Andy
2b- Cano
SS- Jeter
3b- Arod
Utl-
LF- Matsui
CF- Damon
Rf- Sheff
4th/DH- Bernie
5th/PR - Bubba
Spiker101
12-22-05, 01:07 PM
We shouldn't counter on what the Sox do. That's how we get in trouble and do something stupid.
Not suggesting we should, necessarily. But it's within the realm of possibility that they make a series of moves that would require a response. The off-season game isn't played in a vacuum.
One hypothetical: There are rumors of a three-way deal that would land Boston Mark Prior for Manny. If the Sox should then sign Millwood, they would have a rotation of Beckett, Prior, Schilling, Millwood and Wakefield. hey wouldn't have much of a lineup but that's not a bad rotation, I think you might agree. At that point, I'd worry less about my pitching and defense than about my hitting. I would think I'd need another serious bat for a fourth outfielder, so I could shift Sheffield to DH more often.
I don't see us trading away any pitching unless somebody knocks our block off with a great deal.
Randy 40+
Moose ~38
Pavano injured much of last year
Wright injured much of his career
Small caught lightening in the bottle
Wang Rookie who has had injuries
Chacon inconsistent with Colo.
I'd say we'd be lucky to have 5 quality starters at any one point in time with that group. It seems every year we go in with 6 starters (except last but Wang and others stepped up) and we always use them all.
However, if somebody really is desperate and wants starting pitching, we may come off MAYBE one, for the right return. No way we trade away two. Unless say Henn/Desalvo/White/etc. forces their way in.
I think we are about done. Maybe a utility infielder. But I feel good.
Quality lineup.
1. Jeter ss
2. Damon cf
3. A-Rod 3B
4. Giambi 1b
5. Sheff RF
6. Matsui LF
7. Posada C
8. Bernie DH
9. Cano 2b
Quality Rotation
1. RJ
2. moose
3. Pavano
4. Chacon
5. Wang
6. Wright
Quality Bullpen
Cl. Mo
Setup. Farns
L. Villone
L. Myers
7th Sturtze
Long Small
Others in reserve that could move up - Proctor, Henn, Smith, Desalvo, Depaula, TJ Beam, Clippard, White, Karstens, Manning.
Bench-
Dh-4th OF- Bernie (can play all three in a pinch)
5th OF - Bubba (can play all three in a pinch - cheap)
C- Stinnett
1B- Andy Phillips
Utl Inf?
I think the deals you may see made will be very minor. Maybe trading off some of the arms that haven't made it yet but may be on the cusp (mentioned above under reserves) for younger arms with higher ceilings.
Or maybe some of the C's and OF's we have at AAA for younger prospects.
Roster:
Pitchers: (12)
Rj
Moose
Pavano
Wang
Chacon
Wright
Mo
Kyle
Villone
Myers
Sturtze
Small
Position Players: (13)
C- Po
C-Stins
1b- Giambi
1b- Andy
2b- Cano
SS- Jeter
3b- Arod
Utl-
LF- Matsui
CF- Damon
Rf- Sheff
4th/DH- Bernie
5th/PR - Bubba
Nice summary but you left Dotel and Doza out of the mix! Both should be in reserve and hopefully, one or the other could move up and contribute.
CaptainThurman
12-22-05, 04:23 PM
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
YankeePride1967
12-22-05, 04:25 PM
Doing the math someone has to go by opening day. But the Yanks would be better off waiting and let the price rise for obtaining them.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-22-05, 04:35 PM
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
We heard this yesterday, where is the link to this site?
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
Pettitte would be obvious. Who's spot would Roger take?
grabick_luca
12-22-05, 04:40 PM
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
Where is this site you speak of, because it is a very nice concept if true but probably just a rumor :mad:
CaptainThurman
12-22-05, 04:43 PM
We heard this yesterday, where is the link to this site?
Ask and you shall receive. The poster has been credible in the past....
http://btbfansite.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1135124833
Ask and you shall receive. The poster has been credible in the past....
http://btbfansite.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1135124833
Hmmmmmmm
http://www.allsports.com/mlb/yankees/icons/nylogo.jpg
CTyankeefan
12-22-05, 05:10 PM
The rotation is going to be:
1. RJ
2. Moose
3. Wang
4. Pavano
5. Chacon
I can't see Small in the rotation, and Chacon or wright will probably battle for the 5th spot. I am all for keeping Pavano and see what he can do healthy. We mind as well get something for the money.
Small and Wright will be in the pen. Wright only has 1 year left on his deal. They mind as wewll keep him.
I say we keep everyone and see how it turns out. Guys do get hurt. Having 7 starters is a good idea. We don't have to make a decision now, so I don't think Cashman should. Late spring, then we will figure out the roster.
Does proctor still ave options left?
MTYankee23
12-22-05, 05:12 PM
Wasn't Pettite's deal with the Astros incredibly backloaded? I'm not sure I'd be comfortable throwing Duncan in this deal, but its extremely intriguing.
Does that mean that Cashman wasn't sold on Pavano? Because if that's the case, he and I agree again.
Spiker101
12-22-05, 05:40 PM
Wasn't Pettite's deal with the Astros incredibly backloaded? I'm not sure I'd be comfortable throwing Duncan in this deal, but its extremely intriguing.
Does that mean that Cashman wasn't sold on Pavano? Because if that's the case, he and I agree again.
Yeah. To the tune of $17.5 million, for '06 and then he's a free agent. It's absurd to think the Yanks would give up a decent starter, an OK middle reliever and probably their best prospect in the farm system AND take on about $4 million in additional salary for a 33-soon-to-be-34 year pitcher who's very solid but has only rarely been lights out, and clearly benefits from pitching in the DH-less NL.
There is either a lot more to this in terms of players involved (which doesn't make sense either) or it's (to be crude) total crap.
JavyVazquezIsSick
12-22-05, 06:01 PM
Pettite is in his mid-30s, has a gigantic contract, has arm problems, and is very overrated (had a monster year this year though). No thanks, but Berkman would be dandy to get...
Dr. Gonzo
12-22-05, 06:04 PM
My pitching rotation
Randy Johnson
Mike Mussina
Aaron Small - Small was amazing... gotta see if he can pitch well again - worth a chance
Shawn Chacon
Chien-Ming Wang
Octavio Dotel
Mariano Rivera
Brown, Wright, Pavano can all go...
you seriously want small? I don;t get how anyone can actually belive he will do well, it makes no sense.
surge511
12-22-05, 08:10 PM
No. The ONLY possibility of a big name pitcher now would be Clemens, which would mean that we'd acquire prospects in return (BTW I am for some reason a huge fan of this option since it only costs money and not even a pick).
As much as I would love Clemens, that would probably make the payroll 200 million once again. Granted, we would have to trade Pavano or Wright to make some room.
CTyankeefan
12-22-05, 08:16 PM
Pettite is overrated? Is this a yankees board?
Dont' give me ERA or some other stupid saber stat. Matt Clement had a better year with Boston than many of Pettite's in New York. No one would argue Clement is a better pitcher than Pettite.
Sometimes you guys just have to believe your eys and get your head out of Billy Beane's computer.
The guy is a winner. He pitches to the scoreboard. And he can get it done in the clutch. What more do you want in a pitcher?
Andy Pettite wins game 7 against the Red Sox. Pettite wins game 5 against the Angels.
He had a monster year, I wouldn't expect him to do that in the AL, but a 17-9 record with 3.90 ERA is better than anyother starter we have.
SINCE77 2
12-22-05, 08:30 PM
Pettite is overrated? Is this a yankees board?
Dont' give me ERA or some other stupid saber stat. Matt Clement had a better year with Boston than many of Pettite's in New York. No one would argue Clement is a better pitcher than Pettite.
Sometimes you guys just have to believe your eys and get your head out of Billy Beane's computer.
The guy is a winner. He pitches to the scoreboard. And he can get it done in the clutch. What more do you want in a pitcher?
Andy Pettite wins game 7 against the Red Sox. Pettite wins game 5 against the Angels.
He had a monster year, I wouldn't expect him to do that in the AL, but a 17-9 record with 3.90 ERA is better than anyother starter we have.
Andy also blew game 6 of the 2001 WS in Arizona, but I agree with you 100%. I would love to have him back.
yanksphan
12-22-05, 08:47 PM
Pettite is overrated? Is this a yankees board?
Dont' give me ERA or some other stupid saber stat. Matt Clement had a better year with Boston than many of Pettite's in New York. No one would argue Clement is a better pitcher than Pettite.
Sometimes you guys just have to believe your eys and get your head out of Billy Beane's computer.
Wrong. Clement had an ERA+ of 96 last year. Pettitte's worst year as a Yankee was 95. He was never sub-100 again. Nobody would argue it, b/c it's not true. Your eyes lied.
The guy is a winner. He pitches to the scoreboard. And he can get it done in the clutch. What more do you want in a pitcher?
Ahh...clutch. Can't win without some good old fashion clutchiness.
Andy Pettite wins game 7 against the Red Sox. Pettite wins game 5 against the Angels.
Because you say so? Hmm...after your analysis of Clement last season, I'm skeptical.
Spiker101
12-22-05, 08:53 PM
Andy also blew game 6 of the 2001 WS in Arizona, but I agree with you 100%. I would love to have him back.
I'd love to have him back too, but not at $17.5 million, Pavano, Sturtze and Duncan. He's good, not God.
38Special
12-22-05, 09:22 PM
Pettite is overrated? Is this a yankees board?
Dont' give me ERA or some other stupid saber stat. Matt Clement had a better year with Boston than many of Pettite's in New York. No one would argue Clement is a better pitcher than Pettite.
Sometimes you guys just have to believe your eys and get your head out of Billy Beane's computer.
The guy is a winner. He pitches to the scoreboard. And he can get it done in the clutch. What more do you want in a pitcher?
Andy Pettite wins game 7 against the Red Sox. Pettite wins game 5 against the Angels.
He had a monster year, I wouldn't expect him to do that in the AL, but a 17-9 record with 3.90 ERA is better than anyother starter we have.
that's funny
Let's see his playoff record in series deciding games (One win/loss from victory/defeat)
1996 ALCS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 8 IP - 3 H - 1 BB - 1 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
1997 ALDS - Game 5 (2-2) - 6.2 IP - 6 H - 0 BB - 4 R (LOSS - CLE wins series)
1998 WS - Game 4 (NYY 3-0) - 7.1 IP - 5 H - 3 BB - 0 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
2000 ALDS - Game 5 (2-2) - 3.2 IP - 10 H - 2 BB - 5 R (ND - NYY wins series)
2000 WS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 7 IP - 8 H - 3 BB - 2 R (ND - NYY wins series)
2001 ALCS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 6.1 IP - 8 H - 1 BB - 3 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
2001 WS - Game 6 (NYY 3-2) - 2 IP - 7 H - 2 BB - 6 R (LOSE - ARI wins)
2003 ALCS - Game 6 (NYY 3-2) - 5 IP - 8 H - 2 BB - 4 R (ND - BOS wins)
2003 WS - Game 6 (FLA 3-2) - 7 IP - 6 H - 3 BB - 2 R (LOSE - FLA wins series)
Thats: 4.59 ERA and 1.43 WHIP
His total postseason record: 4.08 ERA and 1.35 WHIP
Impressive!
Andy also blew game 6 of the 2001 WS in Arizona, but I agree with you 100%. I would love to have him back.
Pettite is good for a postseason stinker a year.
1996 WS, Game 1, 2.1 IP, 6 H, 1BB, 1 HR, 1 K, 7 ER
1997 ALDS, Game 2, 5 IP, 9 H, 1 BB, 1 HR, 3 K, 7 ER
1998 ALCS, Game 3, 4.2 IP, 8 H, 3 BB, 4 HR, 1 K, 6 ER
1999 WS, Game 3, 3.2 IP, 10 H, 1 BB, 0 HR, 1 K, 5 ER
2000 ALDS, Game 5, 3.2 IP, 10 H, 2 BB, 0 HR, 4 K, 5 ER
2001 WS, Game 6, 2 IP, 7 H, 2 BB, 0 HR, 1 K, 6 ER
2002 ALDS, Game 2, 3 IP, 8 H, 0 BB, 2 HR, 1 K, 4 ER
2003 ALCS, Game 6, 5 IP, 8 H, 2 BB, 1 HR, 5 K, 4 ER
2005 ALCS, Game 1, 6 IP, 8 H, 2 BB, 1 HR, 2 K, 5 ER
He's had some great starts, he's had some mediocore ones, and he's had some stinkers.
keithf1
12-23-05, 12:53 AM
Is there anyway we can get Abreu?
Yankees1962
12-23-05, 02:57 AM
IMO, the Yankees biggest question mark going into 2006 is their starting rotation. I don't think they can afford to trade any of these pitchers until they get an idea of what they really have in spring training.
Also, I think Cashman is positioning the Yankees in a way to add a significant arm to the starting rotation either in July or next offseason. It might even be two new starting pitchers when all is said and done.
yogibuck
12-23-05, 08:58 AM
I wouldn't mind trading Pavano and Sturtze for Pettitte.
I think we gain in talent but at a larger cost. To the tune of $17.5 M.
The good thing, is that the cap value is only like $10.5 since it is avg. out. So it would cost us less luxury $ than Pavano/Sturtze.
In this case we are not replacing a starter, but instead upgrading one.
I don't like giving up a reliever, because I still think you should oversign relievers as you can NEVER trust them to be good year to year. Except the great ones like Mo.
I would not trade a top notch prospect. I would definitely throw in a surplus fringe prospect OF/C/P that we have in the upper levels that will likely not get an opportunity with us.
Spiker101
12-23-05, 09:28 AM
IMO, the Yankees biggest question mark going into 2006 is their starting rotation. I don't think they can afford to trade any of these pitchers until they get an idea of what they really have in spring training.
.
Amen.
I can't see the Yankees not getting rid of Jaret Wright. Unless they get rid of at least 1 pitcher I can't see how they stock their bench.
bobbymagee
12-23-05, 11:31 AM
No, its not
SP
RJ
Moose
Chacon
Pavano
Wright
Wang
Small
RP
Mo
Sturtze
Farns
Villone
Myers
Proctor
and Dotel when he returns
13 pitches is 2 too many
My guess would be Sturtze and Proctor would be the two to go
Do you honestly believe that all of those pitchers will be 101% healthy? Who is gonna be hurt first, Wright , Pavano, Wang or Johnson?
shutout
12-23-05, 11:39 AM
I'd like to have Pettitte back. I'm not one of those "stats" people. It's a great pitcher to watch who'll, imho, win important games for us.
The FUTURE
12-23-05, 12:28 PM
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
WoW
Johnson
Clemens
Pettitte
Mussina
Wang
Chacon
^:D ^
I dont think its going to happen tho. but wow would it be nice
yanksphan
12-23-05, 12:35 PM
I'd like to have Pettitte back. I'm not one of those "stats" people. It's a great pitcher to watch who'll, imho, win important games for us.
"Wins" aren't a stat? ;)
flymick24
12-23-05, 12:37 PM
WoW
Johnson
Clemens
Pettitte
Mussina
Wang
Chacon
^:D ^
I dont think its going to happen tho. but wow would it be nice
wow, our rotation would be in wheelchairs by may
RobbiMan
12-23-05, 12:48 PM
I'm picking up a "connected rumor" from another site that says the Astros will send Pettitte to the Yankees for Pavano and Sturtze plus a prospect (Duncan was mentioned, but who knows?)....and if Pettitte comes back, can Roger be far behind?
"Connected?" This guy has a "friend of a friend who used to know somebody..." Right...
MR STEINBRENNER 27
12-24-05, 02:11 AM
Id assume so. Hopefully its Jaret Wright and I dont care who or what we get in return for him.
Id assume so. Hopefully its Jaret Wright and I dont care who or what we get in return for him.
Sounds like a great business plan, boss.
Trade a guy when his value is at its lowest, ask for nothing in return and pay his contract.
brilliant!
MR STEINBRENNER 27
12-24-05, 02:38 AM
Pettite is overrated? Is this a yankees board?
Dont' give me ERA or some other stupid saber stat. Matt Clement had a better year with Boston than many of Pettite's in New York. No one would argue Clement is a better pitcher than Pettite.
Sometimes you guys just have to believe your eys and get your head out of Billy Beane's computer.
The guy is a winner. He pitches to the scoreboard. And he can get it done in the clutch. What more do you want in a pitcher?
Andy Pettite wins game 7 against the Red Sox. Pettite wins game 5 against the Angels.
He had a monster year, I wouldn't expect him to do that in the AL, but a 17-9 record with 3.90 ERA is better than anyother starter we have.
*pumps fist in the air*
couldnt have said it better. These stat people are gettin outta control, they think they are better than us regular people
MR STEINBRENNER 27
12-24-05, 02:41 AM
Sounds like a great business plan, boss.
Trade a guy when his value is at its lowest, ask for nothing in return and pay his contract.
brilliant!
id pay him another 21 mil if he agrees to never start another game for us again. Hell Id rather have Tim Redding (who?) than that schmuck.
MR STEINBRENNER 27
12-24-05, 02:44 AM
that's funny
Let's see his playoff record in series deciding games (One win/loss from victory/defeat)
1996 ALCS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 8 IP - 3 H - 1 BB - 1 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
1997 ALDS - Game 5 (2-2) - 6.2 IP - 6 H - 0 BB - 4 R (LOSS - CLE wins series)
1998 WS - Game 4 (NYY 3-0) - 7.1 IP - 5 H - 3 BB - 0 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
2000 ALDS - Game 5 (2-2) - 3.2 IP - 10 H - 2 BB - 5 R (ND - NYY wins series)
2000 WS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 7 IP - 8 H - 3 BB - 2 R (ND - NYY wins series)
2001 ALCS - Game 5 (NYY 3-1) - 6.1 IP - 8 H - 1 BB - 3 R (WIN - NYY wins series)
2001 WS - Game 6 (NYY 3-2) - 2 IP - 7 H - 2 BB - 6 R (LOSE - ARI wins)
2003 ALCS - Game 6 (NYY 3-2) - 5 IP - 8 H - 2 BB - 4 R (ND - BOS wins)
2003 WS - Game 6 (FLA 3-2) - 7 IP - 6 H - 3 BB - 2 R (LOSE - FLA wins series)
Thats: 4.59 ERA and 1.43 WHIP
His total postseason record: 4.08 ERA and 1.35 WHIP
Impressive!
the only real stinker was against Arizona in 2001. other than that the losses were out of his control.
id pay him another 21 mil if he agrees to never start another game for us again. Hell Id rather have Tim Redding (who?) than that schmuck.
yeah that bastard, suffered a terrible shoulder injury but worked his ass off for 4 months to come back and give us a few serviceable starts in August and September
He's not like that fearsome warrior Clemens who pitched the Astros to victory over the ChiSox, oh wait
MR STEINBRENNER 27
12-24-05, 03:23 AM
yeah that bastard, suffered a terrible shoulder injury but worked his ass off for 4 months to come back and give us a few serviceable starts in August and September
He's not like that fearsome warrior Clemens who pitched the Astros to victory over the ChiSox, oh wait
are you comparing Jaret Wright to ROGER CLEMENS?
in fairness, Wright did give us a few quality starts. But, he also had his annual shoulder injury and 5+ ERA. and whoever signed him ought to go lay under a bus. Merry Christmas.
Saxmania
12-27-05, 09:10 AM
*pumps fist in the air*
couldnt have said it better. These stat people are gettin outta control, they think they are better than us regular people
Yes, using facts to support arguments is really indefensible.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
mjdlight
12-27-05, 09:38 AM
*pumps fist in the air*
couldnt have said it better. These stat people are gettin outta control, they think they are better than us regular people
I don't know if this guy was a parody poster or not, but for the sake of argument, let's assume he was real.
I have always been amazed by that segment of the general population that is so hostile to approaching questions like, "Should we get that pitcher?" in a more scientific manner, when the scientific method has provided us with so many countless and tangible benefits -- including the computer and the network people use to post anti-scientific rants on baseball message boards!
I just don't get it.
Ivoted4Kodos
12-27-05, 10:03 AM
I don't know if this guy was a parody poster or not, but for the sake of argument, let's assume he was real.
I have always been amazed by that segment of the general population that is so hostile to approaching questions like, "Should we get that pitcher?" in a more scientific manner, when the scientific method has provided us with so many countless and tangible benefits -- including the computer and the network people use to post anti-scientific rants on baseball message boards!
I just don't get it.
Maybe they don't consider the scientific method to be "clutch" enough.
jnewmark
12-27-05, 10:31 AM
Maybe they don't consider the scientific method to be "clutch" enough.
Speaking from a neutral corner here, I think sometimes stats are used as the be all, end all argument for getting a player,on this board. There are other aspects of a player than just his stats. Stats, like computers, are useful tools , but there are other qualities to a player that should be taken into consideration when discussing his chances of being successful. :)
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