View Full Version : Steve Finley available
Apparantly the Angels and Giants discussed a Finley for Alfonzo deal but it never occured. Sabean has, however, been asked to keep the deal on the table. So obviously the Angels aren't askin for much. The guy had an absolutely abysmal year last year, but he has always covered alot of ground and up until last year has been a very productive centerfielder.
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 12:52 PM
If the goal is to get someone worse than Bernie both on offense and on defense, then sure, Finley's our man.
ICEBERG18
12-13-05, 12:53 PM
:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
If the goal is to get someone worse than Bernie both on offense and on defense, then sure, Finley's our man.
There is no way Finley is worse than Bernie defensively, that's simply not true. And prior tot his last season Finley's been pretty damn productive. The reason I bring this up is let's face it, at this point we don't have many options.
RhodeyYankee2638
12-13-05, 12:54 PM
I'd rather have Stephen Hawkins patrol the outfield
Kulish29
12-13-05, 12:58 PM
Jeff DaVanon would be a better option. Finley declined an awful lot last year after putting up a good year with AZ/LA in 2004.
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 12:59 PM
There is no way Finley is worse than Bernie defensively, that's simply not true. And prior tot his last season Finley's been pretty damn productive. The reason I bring this up is let's face it, at this point we don't have many options.
He, Bernie, and Griffey could all challenge for the worst defensive CF in the game right now. Whether he's a bit worse or bit better than Bernie I don't know, and I don't want to find out.
And if he was a bit younger I'd have hope that he could return to his former level on offense, but he'll be 41 years old for 2006; there's basically no chance he returns to anywhere near his former level.
There's Michaels, Bradley, Wilkerson, Matthews Jr., Reed, and Damon. There are plenty of options.
He, Bernie, and Griffey could all challenge for the worst defensive CF in the game right now. Whether he's a bit worse or bit better than Bernie I don't know, and I don't want to find out.
And if he was a bit younger I'd have hope that he could return to his former level on offense, but he'll be 41 years old for 2006; there's basically no chance he returns to anywhere near his former level.
There's Michaels, Bradley, Wilkerson, Matthews Jr., Reed, and Damon. There are plenty of options.
There are plenty of options if you're willing to fall prey again to old very dangerous habits. For Michaels, Reed, or Wilkerson this team is going to have to dole out some serious value whether that means starting pitching or vital prospects. And there is no question that to obtain Damon, we will have to DRASTICALLY overpay for a guy who's cf defense is actually worse than Finley. Finley posted incredibly low offensive numbers, but I never saw the decline defensively. Not only that, he can be obtained on the cheap for what I believe is one more year providing this team with the stopgap it needs until some outfield talent hits either the trade market or free agency. If Finley continues on his decline, than you cut ties with him but for a year I think it might prove a necessary evil.
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 01:08 PM
There are plenty of options if you're willing to fall prey again to old very dangerous habits. For Michaels, Reed, or Wilkerson this team is going to have to dole out some serious value whether that means starting pitching or vital prospects. And there is no question that to obtain Damon, we will have to DRASTICALLY overpay for a guy who's cf defense is actually worse than Finley. Finley posted incredibly low offensive numbers, but I never saw the decline defensively. Not only that, he can be obtained on the cheap for what I believe is one more year providing this team with the stopgap it needs until some outfield talent hits either the trade market or free agency. If Finley continues on his decline, than you cut ties with him but for a year I think it might prove a necessary evil.
We've already been offered Reed and a reliever for Pavano. How is that a "old very dangerous habit"? Getting rid of a mediocre, injury-prone, overpaid SP for a young CF with very good defense and a lot of potential. I'd be surprised if Wilkerson couldn't be had for Pavano as well if we throw in some cash. Michaels can be had for even less it looks like.
I don't want Damon either, but at least he actucally is an improvement. And there's absolutely no way Finley is anywhere near as good as Damon on defense, and I think Damon at this point is below average. The only reason Finley is still though of as a good defender is because he makes a lot of diving catches; the problem is these are routine plays for CF with good range.
NewEraYanks2527
12-13-05, 01:09 PM
:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
Yea that pretty much sums it up.
We've already been offered Reed and a reliever for Pavano. How is that a "old very dangerous habit"? Getting rid of a mediocre, injury-prone, overpaid SP for a young CF with very good defense and a lot of potential. I'd be surprised if Wilkerson couldn't be had for Pavano as well if we throw in some cash. Michaels can be had for even less it looks like.
I don't want Damon either, but at least he actucally is an improvement. And there's absolutely no way Finley is anywhere near as good as Damon on defense, and I think Damon at this point is below average. The only reason Finley is still though of as a good defender is because he makes a lot of diving catches; the problem is these are routine plays for CF with good range.
There has never actually been any legitimate proof that the Yankees were ever offered a reliever and Reed for Pavano, that has simply been internet speculation up until this point. The closest thing to any type of proof was a one sentence blurb by Klapisch stating that the Mariners dangled Reed for Pavano, and there was no mention of any relief involved. As far as Wilkerson goes, there is not a chance that we get him for Pavano. And when the Yankees asked about Michaels, they demanded Wang in return. The reason I even bring up Finley is that I don't feel like there are many legitimate options available to us in center.
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 01:17 PM
There has never actually been any legitimate proof that the Yankees were ever offered a reliever and Reed for Pavano, that has simply been internet speculation up until this point. The closest thing to any type of proof was a one sentence blurb by Klapisch stating that the Mariners dangled Reed for Pavano, and there was no mention of any relief involved. As far as Wilkerson goes, there is not a chance that we get him for Pavano. And when the Yankees asked about Michaels, they demanded Wang in return. The reason I even bring up Finley is that I don't feel like there are many legitimate options available to us in center.
Several New York and Seattle papers have reported that it was offered.
Wilkerson is going to be moved again, and the Rangers want a SP in return. There have been rumors of Orlando Hudson for him, but I believe the Rangers are planning on Kinsler at 2B now instead. And considering they were willing to give Matt Morris nearly $30 million, I don't think it's a stretch to think they'd be interested in Pavano at say...$24 million or so.
That was the Phillies' original request. They've since come down from that demand significantly.
DandyAndy46
12-13-05, 01:19 PM
There has never actually been any legitimate proof that the Yankees were ever offered a reliever and Reed for Pavano, that has simply been internet speculation up until this point. The closest thing to any type of proof was a one sentence blurb by Klapisch stating that the Mariners dangled Reed for Pavano, and there was no mention of any relief involved. As far as Wilkerson goes, there is not a chance that we get him for Pavano. And when the Yankees asked about Michaels, they demanded Wang in return. The reason I even bring up Finley is that I don't feel like there are many legitimate options available to us in center.
So if you are Brian Cashman you should go get an aging, on-the-decline CFer just so you can get a CFer right?
Finley may not be as productive but he is still as tough as nails to get out at the plate. Every at bat in the playoffs this year he took us 9-10 pitches deep. This is an extremely underrated part of his game, and he is worlds better than Bernie is definisvely. I think he will be a good ballplayer for whoever he plays with next year.
Dr. Gonzo
12-13-05, 01:24 PM
Jeff DaVanon would be a better option. Finley declined an awful lot last year after putting up a good year with AZ/LA in 2004.
and the experts called it a great move by ANA last year
DandyAndy46
12-13-05, 01:24 PM
Finley may not be as productive but he is still as tough as nails to get out at the plate. Every at bat in the playoffs this year he took us 9-10 pitches deep. This is an extremely underrated part of his game, and he is worlds better than Bernie is definisvely. I think he will be a good ballplayer for whoever he plays with next year.
This may be true, but if the Yankees are going to trade away young talent I would rather they get someone with more years ahead of him than behind him...
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 01:27 PM
Finley may not be as productive but he is still as tough as nails to get out at the plate.
Of all players last season that had at least 2 PA per game (324), only 4 players made outs more often than Finley: Patterson, Guzman, Infante, and Womack. So ummm yeah, that's just not true at all.
Every at bat in the playoffs this year he took us 9-10 pitches deep.
He saw just slightly more P/PA than the league average.
This is an extremely underrated part of his game, and he is worlds better than Bernie is definisvely. I think he will be a good ballplayer for whoever he plays with next year.
Actually he's not as the defensive metrics can attest to.
Several New York and Seattle papers have reported that it was offered.
Wilkerson is going to be moved again, and the Rangers want a SP in return. There have been rumors of Orlando Hudson for him, but I believe the Rangers are planning on Kinsler at 2B now instead. And considering they were willing to give Matt Morris nearly $30 million, I don't think it's a stretch to think they'd be interested in Pavano at say...$24 million or so.
That was the Phillies' original request. They've since come down from that demand significantly.
This from today's Toronto Sun.
"We're not going to be getting either of them," Ricciardi said in reference to not only Wilkerson but also Mench. "The price is too steep. I think it's extremely tough for us to get one of them at this point."
The prevailing thought round here is that it's incredibly easy to simply obtain capable centerfielders and the fact is that it isn't. And no New York or Seattle paper reported it was offered, Seattle papers and the Bergen Record have guessed that is what a deal would consist of when in reality Cashman just recently stated that he had no dialogue at all with the Mariners regarding Pavano.
Panamaniac42
12-13-05, 02:18 PM
So obviously the Angels aren't askin for much.
Right, they're not asking for much from the GIANTS.
For us to get Finley it would likely take Chien-Ming Wang.
38Special
12-13-05, 02:21 PM
Finley is absolutely horrible
ryanthe13th
12-13-05, 02:27 PM
Steve Finley hit .294 in MVP 2006 with 52 HR and 131 RBI. :lol:
Also, you're saying that by dealing with Michaels, Reed, and Wilkerson that we'd fall back into old habits. Do you think the Angels are just going to give us Steve Finley?
Wang's Groundballs
12-13-05, 02:30 PM
This from today's Toronto Sun.
The prevailing thought round here is that it's incredibly easy to simply obtain capable centerfielders and the fact is that it isn't. And no New York or Seattle paper reported it was offered, Seattle papers and the Bergen Record have guessed that is what a deal would consist of when in reality Cashman just recently stated that he had no dialogue at all with the Mariners regarding Pavano.
I have seen it reported as being offered but that Cash and Yankees officials don't care for Reed all that much.
What you seem to be mistaken about is Finley being an improvement over Crosby. Finley was 20 runs below average on offense last year and 10 runs below average on defense. Finley is below replacement level. We'd be better off sticking Kevin Reese or Kevin Thompson out there. Finley is in no way a solution.
RhodeyYankee2638
12-13-05, 02:33 PM
Check out Steve Hawkins numbers, they are a lot better than Finley's
Wow....he's simply terrible now. He is a poor defensive CF. Living off of reputation....absolutely cannot track fly balls over his head or in the gaps.
Bubba Crosby, in every single aspect, is better than Steve Finley these days.
ryanthe13th
12-13-05, 02:38 PM
I have seen it reported as being offered but that Cash and Yankees officials don't care for Reed all that much.
What you seem to be mistaken about is Finley being an improvement over Crosby. Finley was 20 runs below average on offense last year and 10 runs below average on defense. Finley is below replacement level. We'd be better off sticking Kevin Reese or Kevin Thompson out there. Finley is in no way a solution.
And it isn't like Finleys offensive numbers have just started to go on the decline. They have been since 2002:
2002 - .287 AVG/.373 OBP/.499 SLG/.869 OPS
2003 - .287 AVG/.363 OBP/.500 SLG/.863 OPS
2004 - .275 AVG/.338 OBP/.490 SLG/.828 OPS(ARZ[104 Games])
.263 AVG/.324 OBP/.491 SLG/.815 OPS(ANA[58 Games]
2005 - .222 AVG/.271 OBP/.374 SLG/.645 OPS
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 02:48 PM
The first poster made a typographical error. Its spelled "terrible."
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 02:54 PM
There has never actually been any legitimate proof that the Yankees were ever offered a reliever and Reed for Pavano, that has simply been internet speculation up until this point. The closest thing to any type of proof was a one sentence blurb by Klapisch stating that the Mariners dangled Reed for Pavano, and there was no mention of any relief involved. As far as Wilkerson goes, there is not a chance that we get him for Pavano. And when the Yankees asked about Michaels, they demanded Wang in return. The reason I even bring up Finley is that I don't feel like there are many legitimate options available to us in center.
There's a lot more "legitimate proof" of that than there is of your baseless assumptions. Considering how badly Texas is starving for SP, and their overcrowded outfield, Wilkerson is definitely a possibility for Pavano. They wanted to move Soriano for SP, and couldn't find any takers. Now they have Wilkerson, Sledge, and some PTBNL, and I'm willing to bet that Pavano looks pretty good, especially when they're counting on Vicente Padilla and Chris Young to head their rotation. The Michaels/Wang bus sailed about a week ago, most recent rumors had a discussion of Sturtze for Michaels. There are still more options in CF, even if you want to pretend their isn't. Are you Finley's agent or something?
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 02:55 PM
Also, you're saying that by dealing with Michaels, Reed, and Wilkerson that we'd fall back into old habits. Do you think the Angels are just going to give us Steve Finley?
They probably would.
Evil Empire
12-13-05, 02:56 PM
Deff Javanon
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 02:56 PM
This from today's Toronto Sun.
"We're not going to be getting either of them," Ricciardi said in reference to not only Wilkerson but also Mench. "The price is too steep. I think it's extremely tough for us to get one of them at this point."
What SP was Toronto offering? Oh thats right, they weren't. They were offering a player who would block a prospect that Texas wants to promote. Obviously we wouldn't have a match with Texas, even though we have exactly what they're looking for.
Ivoted4Kodos
12-13-05, 02:57 PM
There are plenty of options if you're willing to fall prey again to old very dangerous habits.
Wouldn't trading for the declining, past-his-prime, shell of his former all-star self be falling prey to old and dangerous habits?
DandyAndy46
12-13-05, 02:58 PM
Wouldn't trading for the declining, past-his-prime, shell of his former all-star self be falling prey to old and dangerous habits?
Yes it would
SoCal Pinstriper
12-13-05, 03:03 PM
Speculation out here is that Finley's steep decline (in the sense that jumping out of an airplane results in a steep decline) might be related to the onset of testing at the beginning of last season.
No thanks.
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 03:06 PM
Speculation out here is that Finley's steep decline (in the sense that jumping out of an airplane results in a steep decline) might be related to the onset of testing at the beginning of last season.
No thanks.
I refuse to believe that he got that much worse just by going off of steroids. I think he may have actually died.
There's a lot more "legitimate proof" of that than there is of your baseless assumptions. Considering how badly Texas is starving for SP, and their overcrowded outfield, Wilkerson is definitely a possibility for Pavano. They wanted to move Soriano for SP, and couldn't find any takers. Now they have Wilkerson, Sledge, and some PTBNL, and I'm willing to bet that Pavano looks pretty good, especially when they're counting on Vicente Padilla and Chris Young to head their rotation. The Michaels/Wang bus sailed about a week ago, most recent rumors had a discussion of Sturtze for Michaels. There are still more options in CF, even if you want to pretend their isn't. Are you Finley's agent or something?
I doubt the Rangers would listen to Wilkerson/Pavano. Simply because of perception. The dealt Soriano. Sledge and the PTBNL are secondary players, so it essentially was Soriano for Wilkerson and maybe a few guys who can help a little. They NEED to do better than an injury-prone pitcher with one good year on his resume.
Wilkerson was hurt last year- if I were Texas, I'd ride that horse unless something better came along. The initial trade made no sense for them- a Wilkerson/Pavano deal would certainly question why they made the original one. I think they need more. Not saying it wouldn't help the club, but baseball is a lot more than that. It shouldn't always be...but it is.
What SP was Toronto offering? Oh thats right, they weren't. They were offering a player who would block a prospect that Texas wants to promote. Obviously we wouldn't have a match with Texas, even though we have exactly what they're looking for.
I never said I was hoping Finley would be acquired, I am simply stating that I think alot of the names tossed around are more our hopes than anything else. Believe me when I say I'd love to have Wilkerson or Reed or a guy like Curtis Granderson. I just don't think it is going to happen. At this point even with starting pitching at the ridiculous price it is, I think most teams have caught on that Pavano is simply an overpaid mediocre pitcher. And if you genuinely think Texas is going to deal a centerfielder who in that park can hit 30 homeruns with 100 rbi, I'm sorry I just can't side with you.
apolansk
12-13-05, 03:51 PM
So are you Steve Finley or his agent?
ryanthe13th
12-13-05, 04:20 PM
I never said I was hoping Finley would be acquired, I am simply stating that I think alot of the names tossed around are more our hopes than anything else. Believe me when I say I'd love to have Wilkerson or Reed or a guy like Curtis Granderson. I just don't think it is going to happen. At this point even with starting pitching at the ridiculous price it is, I think most teams have caught on that Pavano is simply an overpaid mediocre pitcher. And if you genuinely think Texas is going to deal a centerfielder who in that park can hit 30 homeruns with 100 rbi, I'm sorry I just can't side with you.
Well, Texas is going to have to shed some of their OFers. Right now they have:
Kevin Mech, Gary Matthews Jr., Brad Wilkerson, Lance Nyx, Richard Hidalgo, and Dominic Delucci.
yankeefan in MA
12-13-05, 04:32 PM
I think a lot of people are devaluing Pavano. I would not trade him straight up for Wilkerson. The Yankees barely had enough starters last year so unless a team offers something that would be hard to turn down, I would keep him. Think about some of the FA starters are getting this year.
No thanks on Finely, I am sure something better will come up.
swityak11
12-13-05, 04:33 PM
Well, Texas is going to have to shed some of their OFers. Right now they have:
Kevin Mech, Gary Matthews Jr., Brad Wilkerson, Lance Nyx, Richard Hidalgo, and Dominic Delucci.Hidalgo is a free agent and reports have Mench as the one being shipped out. That'll leave them with 4.
ryanthe13th
12-13-05, 05:31 PM
Hidalgo is a free agent and reports have Mench as the one being shipped out. That'll leave them with 4.
Didn't realize Hidalgo was a FA. He was still up on the depth chart. Where is Mench heading?
swityak11
12-13-05, 06:05 PM
Didn't realize Hidalgo was a FA. He was still up on the depth chart. Where is Mench heading?Nothing pending, just reports I've read had him as the spare OF being actively shopped for pitching.
Babe Rules
12-13-05, 08:08 PM
If they take Jaret Wright...
longtimeyankeefan
12-13-05, 09:17 PM
Steve Finley hit .294 in MVP 2006 with 52 HR and 131 RBI. :lol:
Can you spell S-T-E-R-O-I-D-S ? :D
I Love Wang
12-13-05, 11:00 PM
I think a lot of people are devaluing Pavano. I would not trade him straight up for Wilkerson. The Yankees barely had enough starters last year so unless a team offers something that would be hard to turn down, I would keep him. Think about some of the FA starters are getting this year.
No thanks on Finely, I am sure something better will come up.
The Yankees barely had enough starters last year, but they never had enough adequate CFers. Pavano for Wilkerson fills a need.
Panamaniac42
12-13-05, 11:26 PM
I doubt the Rangers would listen to Wilkerson/Pavano.
I doubt it too...but if we could somehow swing it that would be awesome.
Perception-wise, if you're gonna trade pitching, trade it somewhere where the chips are stacked against him. Texas would certainly be a place where it wouldn't look like we got "burned" on Pavano.
I prefer to keep Pavano but I'd like to see Wilkerson on this team, especially now that M.B. has been traded.
nyctalopia
12-14-05, 12:07 AM
The idea of Steve Finley in CF makes me cry ... in the worst kind of way. The man will be 41 next year and literally dropped off every single possible depth chart last year. He can no longer do anything in the field, and he bats like a one-armed school girl. I would posit to say that he is in fact, worse than Bernie Williams.
Quangormo
12-14-05, 12:13 PM
If the goal is to get someone worse than Bernie both on offense and on defense, then sure, Finley's our man.
And older and who hits only lefthanded instead of from both sides of the plate.
Jglaubman
12-14-05, 06:21 PM
He can no longer do anything in the field
How did he only have 4 errors last year,
I'm not saying I want Finley, I wouldn't go anywhere near him if I were the Yanks, but don't call him a bad defender when he is actually pretty good.
How did he only have 4 errors last year,
I'm not saying I want Finley, I wouldn't go anywhere near him if I were the Yanks, but don't call him a bad defender when he is actually pretty good.
you're only charged for errors on the ball you actually misplay. If you can't get to the ball, it's not an error. See Jeter, Derek.
JeffWeaverFan
12-14-05, 06:43 PM
See Jeter, Derek.
And Williams, Bernie.
Ivoted4Kodos
12-14-05, 06:54 PM
How did he only have 4 errors last year,
I'm not saying I want Finley, I wouldn't go anywhere near him if I were the Yanks, but don't call him a bad defender when he is actually pretty good.
Bernie made 2 errors last year and he was horrible defensively. The don't mean much.
38Special
12-14-05, 07:41 PM
How did he only have 4 errors last year,
I'm not saying I want Finley, I wouldn't go anywhere near him if I were the Yanks, but don't call him a bad defender when he is actually pretty good.
Errors is the new SPEED
Irabu's Son
12-15-05, 08:07 AM
I'd rather have Stephen Hawkins patrol the outfield
Quite possibly the funniest thing I've heard in years.
I Love Wang
12-15-05, 11:14 AM
you're only charged for errors on the ball you actually misplay. If you can't get to the ball, it's not an error. See Jeter, Derek.
Nonsense. Jeter has the uncanny ability to make plenty of errors while still not getting to that many balls. Thats why he is TEH CLUTCH!!!
ChinMusic
12-15-05, 11:25 AM
Bernie made 2 errors last year and he was horrible defensively. The don't mean much.
Yes, but Torre was charged with 40 errors for putting Bernie in the lineup.
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