View Full Version : Cairo back in the Bronx?
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/59339.htm
For the second straight offseason, Miguel Cairo appears as if he will be joining a different team in the same city.
Cairo, the free-agent veteran who played this past year with the Mets and played in 2004 with the Yankees, looks to be headed back to The Bronx. The Yankees are getting close on a one-year deal with the infielder.
There is also a bit about Eduardo Perez.
The Yankees are believed to be interested in free agent Eduardo Perez, who hit .255 with 11 homers and a .368 OBP in just 161 at-bats with Tampa Bay this past year. The 36-year-old Perez, a right-handed hitter who played mostly first base in 2005, hit 10 of those homers in 137 at-bats against lefties. He also clobbered the Yankees this past year, going deep four times in 17 at-bats.
Yankees1962
12-10-05, 05:40 AM
There is also a bit about Eduardo Perez
TB offered arbitration to Perez so I don't know what compensation the Yankees will have to give in order to sign him? I don't see the Yankees giving up draft picks for this player because he's not good enough for that.
yankeebot
12-10-05, 05:53 AM
I always liked Cairo and he would be fine as our utility guy. I don't really see how Perez helps us much.
noneckwilliams
12-10-05, 06:34 AM
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
I'm with you on that noneck.
I'm with you on that noneck.
ditto. Cairo, at best is a journeyman player who had one great year with the Yanks
YankeePride1967
12-10-05, 07:22 AM
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
Last year, he was the anti-Enrique.
Matsui55
12-10-05, 07:24 AM
TB offered arbitration to Perez so I don't know what compensation the Yankees will have to give in order to sign him? I don't see the Yankees giving up draft picks for this player because he's not good enough for that.
Neither Cairo nor Perez would cost the Yanks draft picks. Cairo wasn't offered arbitration, so he is free to go. Perez might have been, but he wasn't an A or B level FA, so no picks (not C either because he's been a FA before).
I would like Cairo to be brought back. He can play SS, 3B and 2B. We need some insurance, as we sure don't have any in AAA.
Perez is just fine as a bench guy. You can never have enough proven PH with power, who can also pick up a glove after the AB. He can also be part of the DH rotation, if so desired.
Right now, I like the way the bench is rounding out.
Stinnett is already the backup C. With Cairo and Perez, the backup INF are covered. Bring back Bernie and get DeVanon in a trade (he was DFA'd by the Angels), and your bench is done.
If the Yanks could get the bench done this early, they could really focus exclusively on the pen, as between DeVanon and Crosby (though I don't consider Crosby a ML OF), CF should be covered until the trade deadline.
Where's Bellhorn? We need a cheap insurance policy for A-Rod, and unless there's an injury the backup's not playing.
longtimeyankeefan
12-10-05, 07:50 AM
Where's Bellhorn? We need a cheap insurance policy for A-Rod, and unless there's an injury the backup's not playing.
Cairo >>> Bellhorn
No thanks
Cairo >>> Bellhorn
No thanksDefensively? What little we saw of Bellhorn playing defense was very impressive. Utility players are primarily there for defense, not offense.
Cairo can play almost all infield positions and he'd come cheap, whats wrong with signing him? He's a guy thats shown he can play in YS.
Cairo can play almost all infield positions and he'd come cheap, whats wrong with signing him? He's a guy thats shown he can play in YS.Nothing wrong at all. Like I said, he'd take the utility role and can play a decent defense at all 4 infield positions. I'm just wondering what happened to Bellhorn...did he get released, or did his contract expire?
noneckwilliams
12-10-05, 07:59 AM
Where's Bellhorn? We need a cheap insurance policy for A-Rod, and unless there's an injury the backup's not playing.
I like Bellhorn as well. I don't know what the saber numbers say but he's seems very very solid as a defender and could potentially find his stroke again. We know he can draw a walk and hit with power - something Miggy can't do.
Just checked around....Bellhorn declined a AAA contract for the Yankees and is now a free-agent.
vegematarian
12-10-05, 08:17 AM
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
Because the Yanks went from Wilson to Cairo.
38Special
12-10-05, 08:29 AM
Cairo hit well for us and could play a couple positions. I'd prefer Graffanino but he'll cost a draft pick. Cairo was well liked around here, and fit in well in the clubhouse (which does matter). Make it happen.
Yankees13
12-10-05, 08:50 AM
Perez kills lefties, had a 897 OPS against them last year. Cairo is a poor hitter, but can play almost any position and has been here before.
costanza35
12-10-05, 09:06 AM
i would be glad to take Cairo back... i liked his style of play 2 years ago and he always seemed to have a good attitude with the team.
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 09:08 AM
I like going after Perez...if used in the right way, he can be a good offensive threat
Cairo?? eh, whatever. I guess that eliminates us from going after Nomar to be our utility guy
I wonder if Cairo could play outfield (just throwing it out there).
Cairo wasn't so hot with NYM last year, but you could give him the benefit of doubt with the change in leagues/pitchers.
I wonder if Cairo could play outfield (just throwing it out there).
Cairo wasn't so hot with NYM last year, but you could give him the benefit of doubt with the change in leagues/pitchers.
He spent 2001, 2002, and 2003 in the NL.
Anyway, Cairo had a flukey season to say the least in 2004. The thing the Yankees need the most out of this position is someone who can sit Cano down against lefties. Even for a right handed batter, I'm not sure if Cairo does this, which is kind of scary.
Cairo?? eh, whatever. I guess that eliminates us from going after Nomar to be our utility guy
Why? Nomar would be signed to play every day at a few different positions. Cairo or Bellhorn or Graffanino would be signed to sit on the bench most of the time. Nomar would have nothing to do with having a backup middle infielder on that bench.
GimeMoMuny
12-10-05, 09:37 AM
I wonder if Cairo could play outfield (just throwing it out there).From the article linked in the thread's first post:
Cairo can be a versatile player. He played five different positions with the Mets last year. He spent 82 games at second base but also played eight at first, three at third, two in left field and one in right.I think he would only be likely to play OF in a pinch.
Cairo wasn't so hot with NYM last year, but you could give him the benefit of doubt with the change in leagues/pitchers.I would think it's more that he regressed to his pre '04 production level, which the Yankees were correct in assuming would happen (why they thought Womack wouldn't is another thread).
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 09:43 AM
Why? Nomar would be signed to play every day at a few different positions. Cairo or Bellhorn or Graffanino would be signed to sit on the bench most of the time. Nomar would have nothing to do with having a backup middle infielder on that bench.
where can Nomar play everyday?? I know everyone is gung-ho about him maybe playing CF, but how do we know he is capable of doing that?? I'm willing to bet he hasnt played the OF since he was in high school or maybe even Little League
DH?? maybe...although I wonder if he would be willing to sign on just to be a DH, he could probably find an infield job somewhere
where can Nomar play everyday?? I know everyone is gung-ho about him maybe playing CF, but how do we know he is capable of doing that?? I'm willing to bet he hasnt played the OF since he was in high school or maybe even Little League
DH?? maybe...although I wonder if he would be willing to sign on just to be a DH, he could probably find an infield job somewhere
Just about every team that is interested in him is interested in him in a role where he plays a little infield, a little outfield, etc. In some way, shape, or form, he's going to get his at bats. He certainly isn't signing anywhere to sit on the bench and play once a week - maybe - like your typical backup middle infielder does. That is the role that Cairo would play. There's a big difference.
I'm with you on that noneck.
Amen, I would much rather see Graffanino here.
38Special
12-10-05, 09:57 AM
Nomar is not going to come to the Yankees unless he gets an everyday job, and he wont. He needs to secure a long term deal after 06. He'll get a job in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, LA, or some other places
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 09:58 AM
Nomar is not going to come to the Yankees unless he gets an everyday job, and he wont. He needs to secure a long term deal after 06. He'll get a job in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, LA, or some other places
I agree...I think he'll end up with the Indians. Unless he wants to be a DH or wants to try to play a position he's never played before...he isnt coming here.
I agree...I think he'll end up with the Indians. Unless he wants to be a DH or wants to try to play a position he's never played before...he isnt coming here.
If he ends up with the Indians (or Dodgers), he won't be playing SS. Really, at this point, no matter where he goes, he's likely to move around the diamond.
38Special
12-10-05, 10:04 AM
he's definitely going to be a 3B or 1B, not a SS
he's definitely going to be a 3B or 1B, not a SS
The Orioles wanted him at 1B, but now that they have Hernandez at C and Lopez at 1B, they would use him in the OF.
The Indians want him for RF.
The D-Backs want him for CF.
The Pirates want him at 3B.
The Dodgers want him at 3B.
The Twins want him at 3B.
The Braves are interested in him as a LF.
The Jays are interested in him in the OF.
It ain't just 1B or 3B. Heck, only one team really wanted him at 1B, and right now, they seem to have addressed that issue but still have holes in the OF.
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 10:14 AM
The Orioles wanted him at 1B, but now that they have Hernandez at C and Lopez at 1B, they would use him in the OF.
The Indians want him for RF.
The D-Backs want him for CF.
The Pirates want him at 3B.
The Dodgers want him at 3B.
The Twins want him at 3B.
The Braves are interested in him as a LF.
The Jays are interested in him in the OF.
It ain't just 1B or 3B. Heck, only one team really wanted him at 1B, and right now, they seem to have addressed that issue but still have holes in the OF.
I thought I remember hearing the Indians wanted him at 3B....but perhaps I heard wrong. In that case, I change my prediction....he will end up either in Pitt, Minny or LA. He will go somewhere where he can play the infield.
38Special
12-10-05, 10:14 AM
I just cant see him in the outfield with his achilles
WebsterMulligan
12-10-05, 10:26 AM
Amazing that Garciaparra once considered one of the best AL SS, is now struggling to find a position. Before his injuries, I thought he was going to be an all-time great player.
I would definitely take him to be a full-time utility/DH guy.
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 11:00 AM
Cairo! (Mets fans really loved him..LOL) Eduardo Perez! Bernie! Getting younger! Wooohooo!
So continues the fascination with ex-Yankees, regardless of worth. Where's all the flexibility?
goin for 27
12-10-05, 11:03 AM
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
Agreed. Sounds more and more like if they add Cairo, Perez and Bernie, it is a broken down, inflexible bench.
Benches have been too underrated for a long time in the Bronx.
If this is the bench, they better get a DH and CF'er pronto.
Agreed. Sounds more and more like if they add Cairo, Perez and Bernie, it is a broken down, inflexible bench.
Benches have been too underrated for a long time in the Bronx.
If this is the bench, they better get a DH and CF'er pronto.
I really don't have a problem with Perez in a vacuum. He can play all of the corners and mashes lefties. Phillips should be able to do basically the same thing, though, making him redundant.
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 11:15 AM
Agreed. Sounds more and more like if they add Cairo, Perez and Bernie, it is a broken down, inflexible bench.
Benches have been too underrated for a long time in the Bronx.
If this is the bench, they better get a DH and CF'er pronto.
I'm fully on the Jeff DaVanon bandwagon....we can get him on the cheap...whether its via trade or if the Angels just release him, we can sign him
he would be an excellent backup OF
What great players do you have in mind for the bench? Or is anyone the Yankees get going to get knocked?
If bench players were really good, they'd be starting on other teams. Cairo can play every IF position. Perez, while not my cup of tea, would take Phillips's role and can hit left handed pitching with power. Jeff DaVanon can play all three OF postions. The players they are looking at sound flexible to me.
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 11:17 AM
What great players do you have in mind for the bench? Or is anyone the Yankees get going to get knocked?
If bench players were really good, they'd be starting on other teams. Cairo can play every IF position. Perez, while not my cup of tea, would take Phillips's role and can hit left handed pitching with power. Jeff DaVanon can play all three OF postions. The players they are looking at sound flexible to me.
I like getting Perez as a strict "play against LHP" guy. And I'm ok with Cairo, and as I've been saying I'm a big fan of trying to get DaVanon.
Bringing back Bernie is the only move I have a problem with.
Yankees13
12-10-05, 11:18 AM
What great players do you have in mind for the bench? Or is anyone the Yankees get going to get knocked?
If bench players were really good, they'd be starting on other teams. Cairo can play every IF position. Perez, while not my cup of tea, would take Phillips's role and can hit left handed pitching with power. Jeff DaVanon can play all three OF postions. The players they are looking at sound flexible to me.
Yeah, I don't understand what the problem is. The bench certainly looks like it'll be miles better than last year's.
27IsNext
12-10-05, 11:22 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in either player, although I'd prefer D'Angelo Jimenez as the backup IFer.
Cairo is a more than passable utility infielder who can give stability off the bench at 2B and 3B. (If Jeter gets injured, ARod can shift to SS and Cairo can ably fill in at 3B).
Picking up Perez solves the Andy Phillips issue, and provides a credible answer as a PH in late innings against opposing LOOGYs.
Both would be solid, team-strengthening moves -- and both moves would be relatively inexpensive.
SI Baseballman
12-10-05, 11:26 AM
Take our garbage please.
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 11:32 AM
Cairo is a more than passable utility infielder who can give stability off the bench at 2B and 3B. (If Jeter gets injured, ARod can shift to SS and Cairo can ably fill in at 3B).
Picking up Perez solves the Andy Phillips issue, and provides a credible answer as a PH in late innings against opposing LOOGYs.
Both would be solid, team-strengthening moves -- and both moves would be relatively inexpensive.
Travis Lee is available, is younger, has more pop and is a better defender at 1st. This supposed deal makes no sense whatsoever. Defense at first should be the prime consideration when you have a Giambi playing there.
Mets fans couldn't wait to get rid of Cairo, as SI attests.
Travis Lee is available, is younger, has more pop and is a better defender at 1st. This makes no sense whatsoever. Defense at first should be the prime consideration.
Someone will give Lee much more regular playing time than the couple of hundred at bats that Perez/Phillips should get.
Travis Lee is available, is younger, has more pop and is a better defender at 1st. This makes no sense whatsoever. Defense at first should be the prime consideration.
My point wasn't whether Perez is preferable over Lee -- he isn't -- it was whether Perez is preferable over Andy Phillips -- which he is.
I would take Travis Lee in a heartbeat over Perez. I was disappointed we didn't re-sign him after his last go-round with us -- would have been a much better option than Tino last year, despite how enjoyable it was to see #24 in the Stadium a last few times.
Although 10 HRs in 137 ABs against lefties (Perez) sure sounds like pretty decent pop to me...
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 11:42 AM
What great players do you have in mind for the bench? Or is anyone the Yankees get going to get knocked?
Should we approve of all Yankee transactions, even ones that plain suck, because you say so? :lol:
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 11:45 AM
My point wasn't whether Perez is preferable over Lee -- he isn't -- it was whether Perez is preferable over Andy Phillips -- which he is.
I would take Travis Lee in a heartbeat over Perez. I was disappointed we didn't re-sign him after his last go-round with us -- would have been a much better option than Tino last year, despite how enjoyable it was to see #24 in the Stadium a last few times.
Although 10 HRs in 137 ABs against lefties (Perez) sure sounds like pretty decent pop to me...
I know, man, and I wasn't debating you. I'll be amazed if this deal happens. Is Cashman banking on Giambi staying healthy and is he concerned with defense at 1st?
This "getting" younger plan that fans are talking about only works when Casman isn't making deals or signings as an excuse for why he's made no moves. When he signs a washed-up Cairo, a 36 year old Perez and Bernie for the bench, then it doesn't wash and it just plain sucks, especially if a Lee is available.
I hope this is a false report, I really do.
38Special
12-10-05, 11:52 AM
Take our garbage please.
Beltran Reyes and Matsui for Wayne Franklin
DontHateOnNumber2
12-10-05, 11:54 AM
Yuck. Never understood all the Cairo love around here.
The only reasons I like him are because he's an average hitter, is said to have a good attitude, and has good speed and is alright with the glove. Plus, the most important thing, he's relatively cheap.
Yankees13
12-10-05, 11:54 AM
Beltran Reyes and Matsui for Wayne Franklin
I'd hold out for Wright as well. :P
38Special
12-10-05, 11:54 AM
I'd hold out for Wright as well. :P
He said garbage
I know, man, and I wasn't debating you. I'll be amazed if this deal happens. Is Cashman banking on Giambi staying healthy and is he concerned with defense at 1st?
This "getting" younger plan that fans are talking about only works when Casman isn't making deals or signings as an excuse for why he's made no moves. When he signs a washed-up Cairo, a 36 year old Perez and Bernie for the bench, then it doesn't wash and it just plain sucks, especially if a Lee is available.
I hope this is a false report, I really do.
I understand your points, but I really think a too literal interpretation of Cash's plan can be misleading -- whether for a Cashman-supporter or for a detractor.
"Getting younger" as an operating concept for the Yankees this offseason seems to so far mean not throwing away prospects or young talent for the biggest veteran name(s) out there. It seems to mean not locking into onerous contracts merely to make a splash or to provide a perceived quick fix. It also seems to mean taking the inexpensive options now (while retaining youth and prospects) to allow greater flexibility to change on the fly once the season begins and our actual strengths and weaknesses begin to emerge.
Filling out the bench with inexpensive, role-playing players in their mid-30's does not undermine that concept -- in fact, their low-cost is perfectly consistent with the concept. Bench players like Cairo or Perez will cost us nothing in terms of young prospects, fill needs, and cost almost nothing in terms of dollars.
Yankees13
12-10-05, 11:56 AM
He said garbage
If we're taking that much garbage, the deal needs to be sweetened. ;)
I know, man, and I wasn't debating you. I'll be amazed if this deal happens. Is Cashman banking on Giambi staying healthy and is he concerned with defense at 1st?
This "getting" younger plan that fans are talking about only works when Casman isn't making deals or signings as an excuse for why he's made no moves. When he signs a washed-up Cairo, a 36 year old Perez and Bernie for the bench, then it doesn't wash and it just plain sucks, especially if a Lee is available.
I hope this is a false report, I really do.
Getting younger means not signing old every day players to multi-year deals when they are likely to decline significantly during the course of the contract (see Sheffield, Gary over the last couple of years). Are you really trying to parse this down to a player who might get 150 AB on a one year deal like Cairo? While I agree that Cairo isn't the best choice, you are attempting to read way too much into this.
wileedog
12-10-05, 12:02 PM
Someone will give Lee much more regular playing time than the couple of hundred at bats that Perez/Phillips should get.
You'd think so, but he signed with us two years ago as a back-up deal, and hasn't really done anything in the interim that would warrant starting time someplace else.
I'd at least make him an offer, although I don't know if he harbors any bad feelings towards us for screwing up his shoulder putting him in the OF and then cutting him.
38Special
12-10-05, 12:03 PM
I know, man, and I wasn't debating you. I'll be amazed if this deal happens. Is Cashman banking on Giambi staying healthy and is he concerned with defense at 1st?
This "getting" younger plan that fans are talking about only works when Casman isn't making deals or signings as an excuse for why he's made no moves. When he signs a washed-up Cairo, a 36 year old Perez and Bernie for the bench, then it doesn't wash and it just plain sucks, especially if a Lee is available.
I hope this is a false report, I really do.
Giambi is going to play first base, because his bat plays much better there.
If we're going to have another first baseman, we need one who hits lefties very well and righties just adequate enough if theres a change in pitchers
Perez: vs lefties: .259/.371/.526
vs righties: .231/.355/.346
Lee: vs lefties: .250/.276/.304
vs righties: .276/.339/.445
Lee is a better defender and younger but thats more reason why he'll be landing a starting job, and he might as well. Perez fits the role that would be important for this team. If Cashman feels that Phillips can pull that role off, then im fine with neither of them, but i would be sure about that. We are signing these guys to bench deals for 1 or 2 years, him being 30 or 35 makes no difference as long as he can get the job done that we need
As someone else asked, how would you like this bench put together so its "great"?
we need a Backup catcher, Backup outfielder, backup middle infield, backup first baseman, and another utility/pinch hitter off the bench. Stinnett for catcher, Cairo hit well for us and can play many infield positions, Bernie looks to be the pinch hitter off the bench, and Perez would be a great lefty masher.
wileedog
12-10-05, 12:09 PM
This "getting" younger plan that fans are talking about only works when Casman isn't making deals or signings as an excuse for why he's made no moves. When he signs a washed-up Cairo, a 36 year old Perez and Bernie for the bench, then it doesn't wash and it just plain sucks, especially if a Lee is available.
Cairo is only 31, and hit very well in Yankee Stadium two years ago (.317/.373/.463)
He probably won't do that well again, but I certainly like him as the utility IF much better than Rey Sanchez.
I agree with you on Bernie, and would rather have Lee as well, if he'd come here. However if he won't Perez is a decent option IMO.
You'd think so, but he signed with us two years ago as a back-up deal, and hasn't really done anything in the interim that would warrant starting time someplace else.
I'd at least make him an offer, although I don't know if he harbors any bad feelings towards us for screwing up his shoulder putting him in the OF and then cutting him.
He signed two years ago with the chance to play regularly, actually. There were questions re Giambi being able to play at all, and if he did, it was going to often be at DH. He was certainly pencilled in ahead of Tony Clark and Ruben Sierra before he got hurt.
Last season, he got over 400 at bats despite missing time at the beginning of the year. He put up a 101 OPS+, higher than his career average. If he was a regular last year, he'll find a spot with at least a chance to be a regular this year.
38Special
12-10-05, 12:11 PM
/\/\/\
Agreed
Also worth adding that prior to going down with an achilles injury in 2004, Perez played corner outfield for the Cardinals while putting up OPS around 1000 2 straight years against lefties. Whether or not he could do that now that he's completely healed is questionable, but it could add to his versatility.
Matsui55
12-10-05, 12:18 PM
Travis Lee is available, is younger, has more pop and is a better defender at 1st. This supposed deal makes no sense whatsoever. Defense at first should be the prime consideration when you have a Giambi playing there.
Mets fans couldn't wait to get rid of Cairo, as SI attests.
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's? That cost him a lot of money later, because he was viewed as a backup rather than a starter when he hit the market again. I doubt he would sign with the Yanks if they were the only team to make a guaranteed offer.
Perez is different- he is at the stage in his career where making the roster is a plus, even if you are the last guy on the bench. He'll likely sign so long as the money is guaranteed.
Panamaniac42
12-10-05, 12:19 PM
I like Bellhorn as well. I don't know what the saber numbers say but he's seems very very solid as a defender and could potentially find his stroke again. We know he can draw a walk and hit with power - something Miggy can't do.
"Find his stroke again"??
The only thing he's good for is lucking out and drawing a walk.
His best year (2004) he hit .264, with a .283 at Fenway and .244 on the road.
He managed to draw 88 walks in 523 at-bats but 177 strikeouts (ew, let's sign Preston Wilson AND Bellhorn lol).
The OBP was nice at .373 but I'm a little sick of picking Boston's trash.
Cairo did a good job for us here, can play all IF positions and OF in a pinch. He has a little bit of speed and can swipe a base if need be. He does the job defensively. He doesn't stand there and pray for a walk like Bellhorn, but he is tough to strikeout and puts the bat on the ball.
For a guy that is going to see minimal action off the bench, I have no problem with Cairo. Bellhorn could probably still land a starting job somewhere off the hype of his 2004 season, so I doubt he'd be open to a util role anyway. The Yankees did right by letting him go.
Now, on to Eduardo Perez, I have a big problem with that. Just because he made Randy Johnson his bitch doesn't mean we have to sign him. It's bad enough we have Bernie Williams on the bench now.
Go get DaVanon, go get Travis Lee or JT Snow if you can.
WebsterMulligan
12-10-05, 12:19 PM
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's? That cost him a lot of money later, because he was viewed as a backup rather than a starter when he hit the market again. I doubt he would sign with the Yanks if they were the only team to make a guaranteed offer.
Perez is different- he is at the stage in his career where making the roster is a plus, even if you are the last guy on the bench. He'll likely sign so long as the money is guaranteed.
Was'nt Lee injured for the better part of his short stint with the Yanks?
Panamaniac42
12-10-05, 12:20 PM
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's? That cost him a lot of money later, because he was viewed as a backup rather than a starter when he hit the market again. I doubt he would sign with the Yanks if they were the only team to make a guaranteed offer.
What the hell are you talking about, he got 19 AB's in 7 games because he had a torn labrum.
It's always fun when people make stuff up.
Where did you get that story from, and how did you come up with 150 AB's?
wileedog
12-10-05, 12:21 PM
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's?
19 ABs actually. He messed up his shoulder when we tried to make him an OFer (although that might have had nothing to do with it) and only played in 7 games with us before we DL'd and eventually released him.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the way he felt though.
Kulish29
12-10-05, 12:23 PM
Amen, I would much rather see Graffanino here.
We'd be giving up a draft pick to Boston. No thanks.
Panamaniac42
12-10-05, 12:24 PM
19 ABs actually. He messed up his shoulder when we tried to make him an OFer (although that might have had nothing to do with it) and only played in 7 games with us before we DL'd and eventually released him.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the way he felt though.
I think he was unhappy that the Yankees for experimenting with him as a corner outfielder, and it was suggested that that had something to do with his shoulder injury (the longer throw, etc).
I'm going to stop there because I don't know how Travis Lee feels, and one fabricated story about him in this thread is enough.
Matsui55
12-10-05, 12:24 PM
What the hell are you talking about, he got 19 AB's in 7 games because he had a torn labrum.
It's always fun when people make stuff up.
Where did you get that story from, and how did you come up with 150 AB's?
I pulled the number from the air to show minimal AB's.
He had the labrum because of the ST OF experiment (remember that one?) He played through it for a little while, but couldn't do it.
Still- remember, it was 1B, not RF that he was promised.
Yankees1962
12-10-05, 12:24 PM
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's? That cost him a lot of money later, because he was viewed as a backup rather than a starter when he hit the market again. I doubt he would sign with the Yanks if they were the only team to make a guaranteed offer.
Perez is different- he is at the stage in his career where making the roster is a plus, even if you are the last guy on the bench. He'll likely sign so long as the money is guaranteed.
As others stated, I don't know how you came up with this story, but Lee tore up his shoulder in April and underwent surgery which sidelined him for rest of the year.
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 12:29 PM
I understand your points, but I really think a too literal interpretation of Cash's plan can be misleading -- whether for a Cashman-supporter or for a detractor.
"Getting younger" as an operating concept for the Yankees this offseason seems to so far mean not throwing away prospects or young talent for the biggest veteran name(s) out there. It seems to mean not locking into onerous contracts merely to make a splash or to provide a perceived quick fix. It also seems to mean taking the inexpensive options now (while retaining youth and prospects) to allow greater flexibility to change on the fly once the season begins and our actual strengths and weaknesses begin to emerge.
Filling out the bench with inexpensive, role-playing players in their mid-30's does not undermine that concept -- in fact, their low-cost is perfectly consistent with the concept. Bench players like Cairo or Perez will cost us nothing in terms of young prospects, fill needs, and cost almost nothing in terms of dollars.
Getting younger means not signing old every day players to multi-year deals when they are likely to decline significantly during the course of the contract (see Sheffield, Gary over the last couple of years). Are you really trying to parse this down to a player who might get 150 AB on a one year deal like Cairo? While I agree that Cairo isn't the best choice, you are attempting to read way too much into this.
Giambi is going to play first base, because his bat plays much better there.
If we're going to have another first baseman, we need one who hits lefties very well and righties just adequate enough if theres a change in pitchers
Perez: vs lefties: .259/.371/.526
vs righties: .231/.355/.346
Lee: vs lefties: .250/.276/.304
vs righties: .276/.339/.445
Lee is a better defender and younger but thats more reason why he'll be landing a starting job, and he might as well. Perez fits the role that would be important for this team. If Cashman feels that Phillips can pull that role off, then im fine with neither of them, but i would be sure about that. We are signing these guys to bench deals for 1 or 2 years, him being 30 or 35 makes no difference as long as he can get the job done that we need
As someone else asked, how would you like this bench put together so its "great"?
we need a Backup catcher, Backup outfielder, backup middle infield, backup first baseman, and another utility/pinch hitter off the bench. Stinnett for catcher, Cairo hit well for us and can play many infield positions, Bernie looks to be the pinch hitter off the bench, and Perez would be a great lefty masher.
I see your points, but my concern is that I think that Cashman should be looking more toward a full-time 1st baseman because of Giambi's history health-wise and his defensive deficiencies.
I hate the fact that the Yanks are being held hostage from moving forward because Giambi doesn't hit well in the DH spot, but I suppose there's nothing they can do about it. His numbers for his DH stints are a relatively small sample size and I wonder what how he'd do if given a full season in that role, if he'd acclimate himself to it. That's why I wish Cashman would explore signing Lee if he hasn’t already. He'd come cheaper than most elite 1st basemen who aren't coming off of a recent injury as he, and would provide insurance in case Giambi can't cut it a full season, which is very probable. But, again, Lee would have to be receptive to that type of set-up. It would be nice if Cashman can convince him that he'd get enough AB’s and time at 1st .
Dooley Womack
12-10-05, 12:30 PM
Travis Lee will NEVER return to the Yanks. He was VERY unhappy with the way things were handled when he was here. He was told he would get significant PT- and got what- 150AB's? That cost him a lot of money later, because he was viewed as a backup rather than a starter when he hit the market again. I doubt he would sign with the Yanks if they were the only team to make a guaranteed offer.
Perez is different- he is at the stage in his career where making the roster is a plus, even if you are the last guy on the bench. He'll likely sign so long as the money is guaranteed.
Lee was injured, so that wasn't the Yanks fault. I've read differently, that he wanted a shot to come back the next season but the Yanks went with Tino instead.
wileedog
12-10-05, 12:31 PM
I see your points, but my concern is that I think that Cashman should be looking more toward a full-time 1st baseman because of Giambi's history health-wise and his defensive deficiencies.
I hate the fact that the Yanks are being held hostage from moving forward because Giambi doesn't hit well in the DH spot, but I suppose there's nothing they can do about it. His numbers for his DH stints are a relatively small sample size and I wonder what how he'd do if given a full season in that role, if he'd acclimate himself to it. That's why I wish Cashman would explore signing Lee if he hasn’t already. He'd come cheaper than most elite 1st basemen who aren't coming off of a recent injury as he, and would provide insurance in case Giambi can't cut it a full season, which is very probable. But, again, Lee would have to be receptive to that type of set-up. It would be nice if Cashman can convince him that he'd get enough AB’s and time at 1st .
I'd rather persue a solid RFer and make Sheff the full time DH. His numbers in that role are stellar the last two seasons, and I think he will benefit even more than Giambi from not having to deal with playing the field.
I see your points, but my concern is that I think that Cashman should be looking more toward a full-time 1st baseman because of Giambi's history health-wise and his defensive deficiencies.
I hate the fact that the Yanks are being held hostage from moving forward because Giambi doesn't hit well in the DH spot, but I suppose there's nothing they can do about it. His numbers for his DH stints are a relatively small sample size and I wonder what how he'd do if given a full season in that role, if he'd acclimate himself to it. That's why I wish Cashman would explore signing Lee if he hasn’t already. He'd come cheaper than most elite 1st basemen who aren't coming off of a recent injury as he, and would provide insurance in case Giambi can't cut it a full season, which is very probable. But, again, Lee would have to be receptive to that type of set-up. It would be nice if Cashman can convince him that he'd get enough AB’s and time at 1st .
I don't think Giambi unto himself is the issue here. I think it's Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, etc. all being better off at DH. This means, as Cashman has been saying, that the Yankees should not go out and sign a 1B so that Giambi can DH because that doesn't address Sheffield or Matsui and so on. What he has said is that he would like to be flexible enough to put any of those guys at DH on any given day.
Yankees1962
12-10-05, 12:37 PM
I don't think Giambi unto himself is the issue here. I think it's Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, etc. all being better off at DH. This means, as Cashman has been saying, that the Yankees should not go out and sign a 1B so that Giambi can DH because that doesn't address Sheffield or Matsui and so on. What he has said is that he would like to be flexible enough to put any of those guys at DH on any given day.
Wilkerson fits that bill, but he maybe unavailable.
spiritof27
12-10-05, 12:38 PM
For the record, Andy Phillips will be Jason Giambi's backup in 2006. If Eduardo Perez is signed, he will be a utility player. He's able to played 1st, 3rd, LF and RF. It will have no effect on Andy Phillips' role on the 2006 Yankees. He will be on the team, regardless.
Wilkerson fits that bill, but he may be unavailable.
It doesn't need to be a one player solution. For example, Jaque Jones would allow Matsui or Sheffield to DH against righties with Giambi at 1B. Against lefties, you could put Phillips/Perez at first base, Giambi at DH, and Jones on the bench. This is why you build a bench that has players who, while flawed in an every day sense, have a real skill that can be exploited - in this case, the ability to hit lefthanders.
Yankees1962
12-10-05, 12:45 PM
It doesn't need to be a one player solution. For example, Jaque Jones would allow Matsui or Sheffield to DH against righties with Giambi at 1B. Against lefties, you could put Phillips/Perez at first base, Giambi at DH, and Jones on the bench. This is why you build a bench that has players who, while flawed in an every day sense, have a real skill that can be exploited - in this case, the ability to hit lefthanders.
I know it doesn't have to be one player, I just mentioned his name because he's one player that can fill that role. I'm not a big fan of Jones.
For the record, Andy Phillips will be Jason Giambi's backup in 2006. If Eduardo Perez is signed, he will be a utility player. He's able to played 1st, 3rd, LF and RF. It will have no effect on Andy Phillips' role on the 2006 Yankees. He will be on the team, regardless.
It should effect him, as he performs basically the same role...play multiple positions and hit lefties. Basically, your bench should have players who can do at least 2 of the following:
1. Hit lefties
2. Hit righties
3. Play up the middle defensive postions well
4. Play multiple defensive positions at a passable level
5. Run
You should then mix and match skills so that everything is covered. Perez and Phillips are redundant.
wileedog
12-10-05, 12:46 PM
It doesn't need to be a one player solution. For example, Jaque Jones would allow Matsui or Sheffield to DH against righties with Giambi at 1B. Against lefties, you could put Phillips/Perez at first base, Giambi at DH, and Jones on the bench. This is why you build a bench that has players who, while flawed in an every day sense, have a real skill that can be exploited - in this case, the ability to hit lefthanders.
And add a quality defender in RF for most days to boot.
Me likey.
Only thing is I'm not sure Torre is big on juggling his lineup around like this on a day to day basis.
And add a quality defender in RF for most days to boot.
Me likey.
Only thing is I'm not sure Torre is big on juggling his lineup around like this on a day to day basis.
Since this is what Cashman keeps talking about when he says they don't want a full-time DH and they want to be 'flexibile', I assume Torre is either on board or doesn't have much of a choice.
NewEraYanks2527
12-10-05, 12:52 PM
Since this is what Cashman keeps talking about when he says they don't want a full-time DH and they want to be 'flexibile', I assume Torre is either on board or doesn't have much of a choice. Either way that is a good thing.
spiritof27
12-10-05, 12:55 PM
I will put money down at this very moment that regardless of Eduardo Perez joining the team, Andy Phillips will play a significant role on this team in 2006. Perez will come off the bench to pinch hit in late innings, perhaps give someone a day off in the outfield and things of that nature. Phillips, however, will often be the starting first baseman as Jason Giambi DH's. Phillips, as I understand what Cashman has said, will be more of an everyday player than a bench player.
Either way that is a good thing.
Hell, I'd even do this with Burnitz for a year, who is actually an ok fielder, if you don't want to commit multiple years to Jones or the like.
What you have to remember about getting younger is that it can't simply happen for the sake of the date on the birth certificate. If there isn't a viable younger player out there and you can sign an old player for a year, you are basically punting on the position until you think a better young solution comes along. That's fine. It's commiting to old guys long term that is the issue, but it's no less an issue than committing to the wrong young guy long term. For one year, you pretty much know what you are going to get and are paying for what you are going to get regardless of age. Such a punt is not a sign that you don't want to get younger, just that the young guys weren't worth commiting to.
JfromJersey
12-10-05, 01:19 PM
Miggy OK, but Perez? I dunno. He absolutely murdered the Yankees last year ( 4 homers in 17 AB), but he can't face Yankee pitching if he's on the team. He did well against the Red Sox also, so maybe it's not such a bad idea.
dabomb2045
12-10-05, 01:31 PM
Miggy OK, but Perez? I dunno. He absolutely murdered the Yankees last year ( 4 homers in 17 AB), but he can't face Yankee pitching if he's on the team. He did well against the Red Sox also, so maybe it's not such a bad idea.
he kills lefties, so if you start him at DH or 1B against lefties...ad you use him as a PH off the bench.....I think he could be a very good addition
27IsNext
12-10-05, 01:45 PM
Giambi is going to play first base, because his bat plays much better there.
Giambi's legs are not going to last him for the remainder of his contract if he starts at first every day. We're better off getting him used to being full-time DH sooner rather than later.
38Special
12-10-05, 01:51 PM
Giambi's legs are not going to last him for the remainder of his contract if he starts at first every day. We're better off getting him used to being full-time DH sooner rather than later.
Is he turning 40 next year or something? Duncan should be ready in 07, they can alternate DH and 1B then.
spiritof27
12-10-05, 01:57 PM
The argument that Giambi hits better when he plays 1B as opposed to when he is the DH really cracks me up.
Obviously his numbers show that to be a truism. But it's a horribly misleading thing to say. Even Jason has admitted that the reason his numbers look like that is because he DH's when he is hurt. He hardly ever is simply the DH when he is healthy. Not to mention the big dive his numbers took as his season went downhill in 2004 and at the start of 2005 when he was the DH and was barely making contact.
It's a laughable argument, at best. If Giambi is given a quality number of at bats at DH while he is healthy, he will post numbers in the exact same realm as his numbers when he plays 1st.
27IsNext
12-10-05, 01:58 PM
I'd rather he start getting used to it now, so when Duncan is ready, Giambi's offense doesn't do a 180 while Duncan is adjusting to the MLB.
Giambi's legs are not going to last him for the remainder of his contract if he starts at first every day. We're better off getting him used to being full-time DH sooner rather than later.
Sheffield's or Matsui's legs won't last either. Again, I'd rather DH them all 1/3 of the time.
nyctalopia
12-10-05, 02:33 PM
graffanino or garciaparra would have both been better choices. actually, bellhorn would have been too.
Dr. Gonzo
12-10-05, 02:35 PM
go get Nomar instead
graffanino or garciaparra would have both been better choices. actually, bellhorn would have been too.
Graffanino costs the Yanks their 2nd round draft pick.
If the Yankees sign Nomar, they'll still get a 150 AB bench middle infielder like Cairo. The two players have nothing to with each other, really.
I'd be fine with Bellhorn, and the Yankees weren't against having him around. Hits righties better than Cairo, but doesn't defend as well. Take your pick, I guess.
I'd rather wait until after the 20th to make a move in case someone interesting gets non-tendered, but if no one does, Cairo is actually probably a better defender than any of the SS free agents outside of Pokey and he can run a bit now that Womack is gone. These aren't bad things, so there are worse choices.
Yankeeah
12-10-05, 02:40 PM
Is this final or just a report, I haven't seen it anywhere else.
Is this final or just a report, I haven't seen it anywhere else.
Just a report that they are talking.
Yankeeah
12-10-05, 02:43 PM
Yeah thats what I thought, from the last few posts it sounded final.
By the way, how about both Cairo and Nomar?
Steph19
12-10-05, 02:43 PM
Does anyone really feel like Nomar would accept a contract to mostly sit on the bench for a year? And, would it even be worth it for what it'll cost to get him? If we sign Garciaparra, I think it'd be in a Chone Figgins type role with more time at DH. He'll be in the lineup every day, just not in the same position every day. So, we could be signing Nomar to do that and still signing Cairo to do what he does: utility backup.
As I see it, Cairo perhaps isn't the best choice but he's pretty good and won't block Nomar coming here. He's got decent speed, a decent bat, and decent defense... Plus, he can play practically every position but C and CF. He likes it here and he's been quoted giving a lot of credit to Mattingly for helping him with his swing. Reuniting with Donnie might help improve his numbers from last year. I wouldn't expect another 2004 but somewhere between that and 2005 wouldn't be bad at all from a utility guy.
Yeah thats what I thought, from the last few posts it sounded final.
By the way, how about both Cairo and Nomar?
That's my point. Nomar is getting a deal to play regularly somewhere. That has no bearing on what a team does for the bench, really, other than trying to compliment your lineup.
AMYanks
12-10-05, 02:55 PM
The argument that Giambi hits better when he plays 1B as opposed to when he is the DH really cracks me up.
Obviously his numbers show that to be a truism. But it's a horribly misleading thing to say. Even Jason has admitted that the reason his numbers look like that is because he DH's when he is hurt. He hardly ever is simply the DH when he is healthy. Not to mention the big dive his numbers took as his season went downhill in 2004 and at the start of 2005 when he was the DH and was barely making contact.
It's a laughable argument, at best. If Giambi is given a quality number of at bats at DH while he is healthy, he will post numbers in the exact same realm as his numbers when he plays 1st.
Giambi also said that he doesn't hit as well when he is the DH because it takes his head out of the game.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-10-05, 03:03 PM
Does anyone really feel like Nomar would accept a contract to mostly sit on the bench for a year? And, would it even be worth it for what it'll cost to get him? If we sign Garciaparra, I think it'd be in a Chone Figgins type role with more time at DH. He'll be in the lineup every day, just not in the same position every day. So, we could be signing Nomar to do that and still signing Cairo to do what he does: utility backup.
As I see it, Cairo perhaps isn't the best choice but he's pretty good and won't block Nomar coming here. He's got decent speed, a decent bat, and decent defense... Plus, he can play practically every position but C and CF. He likes it here and he's been quoted giving a lot of credit to Mattingly for helping him with his swing. Reuniting with Donnie might help improve his numbers from last year. I wouldn't expect another 2004 but somewhere between that and 2005 wouldn't be bad at all from a utility guy.
Exactly, the role for Nomar, if he does sign, is like Figgins now, but really closer to BJ Surhoff back in his prime with the Orioles in the 90s. Surhoff would be in the lineup everyday, but he would play LF, RF, 3B, 1B, or DH. If Nomar does come, he'll probably do the same thing as Surhoff (except that ARod never willingly takes a day off). Cairo is a bench player, pure and simple. He's a guy who you want on the team because of his flexibility. He and Nomar are similar in that they both would play a variety of positions, but different in that Nomar would be an everyday player, Cairo would not.
longtimeyankeefan
12-10-05, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in either player, although I'd prefer D'Angelo Jimenez as the backup IFer.
I'll pass on Jiminez - his FP at SS and 3B are abysmal. He is basically a 2Bman.
27IsNext
12-10-05, 03:49 PM
Sheffield's or Matsui's legs won't last either. Again, I'd rather DH them all 1/3 of the time.
Wasn't Giambi's legs affected by that illness that he had two seasons ago, or am I remembering incorrectly?
For some reason, I've been led to believe he has some sort of condition to where his legs will deteriorate faster than most. Anyone feel free to shed some light.
Steph19
12-10-05, 03:51 PM
Wasn't Giambi's legs affected by that illness that he had two seasons ago, or am I remembering incorrectly?
He had that knee injury, I think, 3 years ago.
Wasn't Giambi's legs affected by that illness that he had two seasons ago, or am I remembering incorrectly?
For some reason, I've been led to believe he has some sort of condition to where his legs will deteriorate faster than most. Anyone feel free to shed some light.
He had a knee injury, if that's what you are thinking about. Cartilage injuries in the knees are quite often degenerative because a lack of blood flow in the area means that most cartilage in the knee does not heal if damaged.
I don't think there's any pressing need to rest him at DH any more or less than Matsui or, certainly, Sheffield.
I really like Cairo as a bench player/utility man. He's got that compact swing.. has a good head.. He's a bit tenacious too. Having him on the bench makes you deeper.. He's inexpensive.. NY proven... Playoff experienced.. He's versatile and is a good teammate. Hope we bring him back. I wish we had him last year over Womack...
Steph19
12-10-05, 04:05 PM
I'd like to just put the reminder out there that Matsui s not exactly ancient. Actually, he'll only be 32 next year (in other words, the same age as Derek Jeter). And he has practically no injury history. Yes, he is a bit of a defensive liability but there really is no pressing matter to get him more at-bats as the DH. By the time Matsui's current contract is over, he still won't be as old as Sheffield was last season.
I'd like to just put the reminder out there that Matsui s not exactly ancient. Actually, he'll only be 32 next year (in other words, the same age as Derek Jeter). And he has practically no injury history. Yes, he is a bit of a defensive liability but there really is no pressing matter to get him more at-bats as the DH. By the time Matsui's current contract is over, he still won't be as old as Sheffield was last season.
Given that Torre refuses to give him a day off and given that he ain't no great shakes in the field, I don't see any reason not to include him in a DH rotation. I'd say basically the same thing about Jeter, actually, if there were a way to make that work.
puckmaster87
12-10-05, 04:17 PM
Given that Torre refuses to give him a day off and given that he ain't no great shakes in the field, I don't see any reason not to include him in a DH rotation. I'd say basically the same thing about Jeter, actually, if there were a way to make that work.
Torre is only accepting Matsui's wishes that he not be given a day off. And Matsui isn't exactly a bad fielder. He has an excellent pickup-and-throw move; he gets rid of the ball faster than most outfielders.
goin for 27
12-10-05, 04:22 PM
I really like Cairo as a bench player/utility man. He's got that compact swing.. has a good head.. He's a bit tenacious too. Having him on the bench makes you deeper.. He's inexpensive.. NY proven... Playoff experienced.. He's versatile and is a good teammate. Hope we bring him back. I wish we had him last year over Womack...
No thanks.
Last year with the Mets...(In the weak NL East)
.251 .296 .324
327 AB's, 18 extra base hits, 19 RBI.
His OBP is only 20 points higher than Tony Womack's, and that benchmark is beyond pathetic.
He drove in 4 more runs than Tony in 2 more AB's. They are essentially a wash, since Womack can also play the outfield.
I don't want to be near either of them.
38Special
12-10-05, 05:00 PM
on 2nd thought, maybe we'd be better off with Kevin Howard...
Yankees1962
12-10-05, 05:02 PM
No thanks.
Last year with the Mets...(In the weak NL East)
.251 .296 .324
327 AB's, 18 extra base hits, 19 RBI.
His OBP is only 20 points higher than Tony Womack's, and that benchmark is beyond pathetic.
He drove in 4 more runs than Tony in 2 more AB's. They are essentially a wash, since Womack can also play the outfield.
I don't want to be near either of them.
I thought Cairo can play the outfield too.
on 2nd thought, maybe we'd be better off with Kevin Howard...
More of a 3B than a 2B, let alone a SS. After Reese, Cairo might actually be the best 2B/SS free agent out there. This is not exactly a bastion of offense, either.
The more I think about it, the more I'd like Nomar.
Steph19
12-10-05, 06:22 PM
I thought Cairo can play the outfield too.
He can play corner OF positions.
But, Womack has more speed so maybe it's a wash anyway.
The more I think about it, the more I'd like Nomar.
Again, that has nothing at all to do with having a backup middle infielder on the bench.
I don't see why having Cairo would preclude getting Nomar. Cairo is a great late inning replacement/versatile emergency starter type who can play a bunch or positions. Nomar could get plenty of regular ABs at various positions and at DH.. assuming he could assume corner outfield duties. We'd be much deeper with both players. Let's not compare Nomar to Cairo...
Again, that has nothing at all to do with having a backup middle infielder on the bench.
I don't see why having Cairo would preclude getting Nomar. Cairo is a great late inning replacement/versatile emergency starter type who can play a bunch or positions. Nomar could get plenty of regular ABs at various positions and at DH.. assuming he could assume corner outfield duties. We'd be much deeper with both players. Let's not compare Nomar to Cairo...
Nomar playing relatively regularly and there as a back up middle infielder as well seems like a pretty good idea to me. I'm not sure why there has to be 2 players on the Yankees 25 man roster that only play once every two weeks or so.
MassNYYfan
12-10-05, 07:45 PM
Sign Perez before Boston does. :eek: The battle for Eduardo! :D
Casey37
12-10-05, 08:03 PM
I'd just looooooove to have Cairo back. Yanks should've never let him go to begin with.
yankeesrule2000
12-10-05, 08:05 PM
I would like to see Cairo back, he is good off the bench..
No thanks.
Last year with the Mets...(In the weak NL East)
.251 .296 .324
327 AB's, 18 extra base hits, 19 RBI.
His OBP is only 20 points higher than Tony Womack's, and that benchmark is beyond pathetic.
He drove in 4 more runs than Tony in 2 more AB's. They are essentially a wash, since Womack can also play the outfield.
I don't want to be near either of them.
The difference is that Womack was supposed to be a starter, and cost twice as much as Cairo would.
Cairo is probably not as good as he was for us in 2004, and not as bad as he was for the Mets in 2005.
Somewhere in-between will do just fine as the back-up infielder on this team.
Don Mack
12-10-05, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by wileedog
And add a quality defender in RF for most days to boot.
Me likey.
Only thing is I'm not sure Torre is big on juggling his lineup around like this on a day to day basis.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Since this is what Cashman keeps talking about when he says they don't want a full-time DH and they want to be 'flexibile', I assume Torre is either on board or doesn't have much of a choice.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I sure hope it's that he doesn't have much of a choice because if he had his way, he'd start Bernie Williams in CF the majority of games. I noticed towards the end of last season he started to manage differently and he was probably being told what to do to keep his job.
The one player I really want as far as a flexible player is Nomar. He could really fill in for some of our older players who aren't all that great on defense like Giambi and Sheffield while they DH. But will that be a big problem for Torre to have to write a different lineup out everyday? That's what I'm afraid of. A guy could go from .300 to .196 and he'd still be hitting him in the clean-up spot. I feel like he needs to be told what to do.
puckmaster87
12-10-05, 10:56 PM
Sign Perez before Boston does. :eek: The battle for Eduardo! :D
If I remember correctly, most of Eduardo's great numbers came against Randy Johnson this year.
Evil Empire
12-10-05, 11:14 PM
I don't see why having Cairo would preclude getting Nomar. Cairo is a great late inning replacement/versatile emergency starter type who can play a bunch or positions. Nomar could get plenty of regular ABs at various positions and at DH.. assuming he could assume corner outfield duties. We'd be much deeper with both players. Let's not compare Nomar to Cairo...
I agree. I think we should get them both.
I agree. I think we should get them both.
It might be cheaper to just buy an old statue from some Park somewhere.
Evil Empire
12-10-05, 11:18 PM
It might be cheaper to just buy an old statue from some Park somewhere.
There's a big statue in that river between NY and NJ. How bout that?
There's a big statue in that river between NY and NJ. How bout that?
If you were to place that statue in between 1b & 2b when the Yankees were in the field it would probably knock down more ground balls than Mr. Cairo would get to.
Evil Empire
12-10-05, 11:20 PM
If you were to place that statue in between 1b & 2b when the Yankees were in the field it would probably knock down more ground balls than Mr. Cairo would get to.
It would probably save more homeruns than any of the outfielders would too from that location.
dabomb2045
12-11-05, 12:18 AM
are the Yanks even interested in Nomar?? I mean I've heard that other teams are talking to him....and that the O's even offered him something.
I think Nomar would be a good fit here, and it seems alot of people on the board agree. However, I havent heard anything about the Yanks being interested in him...the only thing I heard was that Nomar's agent contacted Cashman saying that Nomar would be interested in playing CF here.
Yankees1962
12-11-05, 12:25 AM
are the Yanks even interested in Nomar?? I mean I've heard that other teams are talking to him....and that the O's even offered him something.
I think Nomar would be a good fit here, and it seems alot of people on the board agree. However, I havent heard anything about the Yanks being interested in him...the only thing I heard was that Nomar's agent contacted Cashman saying that Nomar would be interested in playing CF here.
Cashman had lunch with two of his major league scouts and Tellem, Nomar's agent on Wednesday. It doesn't take rocket science as to what they were talking about. By the way, it's been reported that Cashman and Tellem have a good rapport when it comes to negotiations so you never know what can happen in this situation.
dabomb2045
12-11-05, 12:40 AM
Cashman had lunch with two of his major league scouts and Tellem, Nomar's agent on Wednesday. It doesn't take rocket science as to what they were talking about. By the way, it's been reported that Cashman and Tellem have a good rapport when it comes to negotiations so you never know what can happen in this situation.
Yeah, I didnt hear about the meeting with Tellem. That's good to hear....I really hope we end up getting him, whether he ends up playing CF, DH, or is the utility player...or all of them. I still think he has alot left.
Yankees1962
12-11-05, 01:17 AM
Regarding Cairo, I remembered he was hurt last season, but I don't know if he played hurt for the rest of the year which might have affected his performance the 2nd of the year?
Graffanino should have been signed last year. Why they didn't go after him I don't understand.
Irabu's Son
12-11-05, 06:57 AM
Call me crazy but isn't Felix Escalona just fine as the reserve infielder? Considering Jeter, A-Rod, and Cano almost never come off the field, and Escalona will play good defense and hit ya .225 while he's in there, what's the difference between him and Cairo or anyone else?
longtimeyankeefan
12-11-05, 08:42 AM
Call me crazy but isn't Felix Escalona just fine as the reserve infielder? Considering Jeter, A-Rod, and Cano almost never come off the field, and Escalona will play good defense and hit ya .225 while he's in there, what's the difference between him and Cairo or anyone else?
I think that the bench would likely be both Escalona and Cairo. Williams and Crosby to backup the OF, assuming that a CFer is acquired.
9 position players (incl DH)
4 bench players
11 pitchers
One spot left
I think that the bench would likely be both Escalona and Cairo. Williams and Crosby to backup the OF, assuming that a CFer is acquired.
9 position players (incl DH)
4 bench players
11 pitchers
One spot left
They should not carry 2 middle infielders. Escalona would be fine, though Cairo is a better runner.
5 bench spots-
1 Catcher
1 2B/SS
1 1B/3B
1 CF
1 RF/LF
with the assumption that the corner guys probably are better hitters.
So:
Stinnet
Cairo/Escalona
Phillips/Perez
Crosby
?
with the ? not really being a spot for another light hitting guy. Given the existense of Phillips or Perez, it should also be someone you would want to pinch it against a righty.
DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
12-11-05, 09:44 AM
I think that the bench would likely be both Escalona and Cairo. Williams and Crosby to backup the OF, assuming that a CFer is acquired.
9 position players (incl DH)
4 bench players
11 pitchers
One spot left
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, for what it's worth, here are my 9 position players if I had a choice:
Posada, Giambi, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Matsui, Crosby, Sheffield, and Nomar as the DH and all purpose player.
As for 11 pitchers: R. J., Chacon, Wang, Pavano, Mussina, Wright, Small, Myers, Farnsworth, Rivera and for now Proctor. I imagine they'll sign another reliever to replace Proctor. Maybe Tavares. So, we're at 20 players.
Bench: Bernie, Andy Phillips, Stinnett, Cairo.
One spot left. Damon? If not another CFer, then add another pitcher so we can use Proctor in games in which we are too far behind. That way, we won't burn out pitchers like we have in the last few years especially Quantrill, Sturtze and Gordon. I rest my case.
You left out Sturtze, which pushes Proctor back to AAA.
the_coach
12-11-05, 10:35 AM
Cairo is a more than passable utility infielder who can give stability off the bench at 2B and 3B. (If Jeter gets injured, ARod can shift to SS and Cairo can ably fill in at 3B)...
If Jeter gets injured Cairo (or whoever) will play SS, A-Rod will stay at third.
surge511
12-11-05, 11:43 AM
Escalona is not making this team. That is why Cairo will be brought back.
Python Patrol
12-11-05, 11:44 AM
I am for bringing back Cairo, I wish they wouldve kept him in the first place
DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
12-11-05, 12:53 PM
You left out Sturtze, which pushes Proctor back to AAA.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I did miss Sturtze, didn't I. Okay then insert Sturtze and leave Proctor in Triple A until someone inevitably gets injured .... or traded. I think the Phillies have an interest in Sturtze.
Plus, I did not take into account what happens if Roger Clemens joins the team in May. I did have one spot left with a question mark after Damon's name. Perhaps if he doesn't sign, then Roger will have to fill that spot. :D
Roberto Kelly
12-11-05, 01:21 PM
I can't imagine why a club would want or need Cairo AND Escalona on the team. One light-hitting backup infielder is enough.
At this point, I think getting Nomar is almost a necessity. Otherwise, the club will be very weak at the DH spot. Thus, my plan would be to acquire Nomar to DH, with the hope that he could be also used around the infield and outfield. I sign Cairo to be the true backup infielder, since he is most versatile and can essentially be used anywhere but catcher. I acquire Michaels for CF. I round out the bench with DaVanon, who in my estimation is a perfect 4th outfielder. The club can also use him to give Matsui and Sheff days off. On their off days, they could move into DH. Then, the club has a lethal weapon in Nomar available off the bench. It appears we have Bernie back as a PH/sometime DH type. I suppose the final spot goes to Bubba, 5th backup OF, pinch runner type.
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 01:46 PM
Call me crazy but isn't Felix Escalona just fine as the reserve infielder? Considering Jeter, A-Rod, and Cano almost never come off the field, and Escalona will play good defense and hit ya .225 while he's in there, what's the difference between him and Cairo or anyone else?
Cairo had a career year here, so people think he is capable of replicating it two years after he did so. I'm not seeing the urgency in bringing him back to the Bronx after his awful season in Queens. He obviously returned back to form over there.
.251 AVG, .296 OBP, .324 SLG, .620 OPS, .825 ZR.
There isn't much to say about Felix Escalona. The only time he's had over 100 AB's is in his rookie year with TB. Since then, the most he has had is 27. If the Yankees actually use Felix as a back up player, he will probably provide the same contribution that Cairo would.
I can't imagine why a club would want or need Cairo AND Escalona on the team. One light-hitting backup infielder is enough.
At this point, I think getting Nomar is almost a necessity. Otherwise, the club will be very weak at the DH spot. Thus, my plan would be to acquire Nomar to DH, with the hope that he could be also used around the infield and outfield. I sign Cairo to be the true backup infielder, since he is most versatile and can essentially be used anywhere but catcher. I acquire Michaels for CF. I round out the bench with DaVanon, who in my estimation is a perfect 4th outfielder. The club can also use him to give Matsui and Sheff days off. On their off days, they could move into DH. Then, the club has a lethal weapon in Nomar available off the bench. It appears we have Bernie back as a PH/sometime DH type. I suppose the final spot goes to Bubba, 5th backup OF, pinch runner type.
You've got too many players.
Roberto Kelly
12-11-05, 02:31 PM
You've got too many players.
Pitchers: Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Chacon, Wang, Wright, Small, Myers, Farnsworth, Rivera, (RH reliever to be acquired) = 11
Infielders: Giambi, Cano, Jeter, Rodriguez, Cairo, Garciaparra = 6
Outfielders: Sheffield, Michaels, Matsui, Davanon, Williams, Crosby = 6
Catchers: Posada, Stinnett = 2
Total = 25
Pitchers: Johnson, Mussina, Pavano, Chacon, Wang, Wright, Small, Myers, Farnsworth, Rivera, (RH reliever to be acquired) = 11
Infielders: Giambi, Cano, Jeter, Rodriguez, Cairo, Garciaparra = 6
Outfielders: Sheffield, Michaels, Matsui, Davanon, Williams, Crosby = 6
Catchers: Posada, Stinnett = 2
Total = 25
Did we trade Sturtze?
Did we trade Sturtze?
To get Michaels, I imagine. I guess my point was that there were too many outfielders given they want to have a Phillips/Perez type on the bench who can play 1B/3B and hit lefties. Cairo is more of a defense/pinch run type.
Bubba is out of options, so you'd have to find somewhere to dump him, I guess. No big loss.
Yankeeah
12-11-05, 02:46 PM
Did we trade Sturtze?
No, we didn't.
puckmaster87
12-11-05, 03:16 PM
Call me crazy but isn't Felix Escalona just fine as the reserve infielder? Considering Jeter, A-Rod, and Cano almost never come off the field, and Escalona will play good defense and hit ya .225 while he's in there, what's the difference between him and Cairo or anyone else?
Cairo is simply a better hitter, and hardly ever strikes out. Cairo had a great year for the Yankees in 2004, and barring injury such as in 2005, I have no doubt that we could see a repeat performance.
NewEraYanks2527
12-11-05, 03:18 PM
Cairo is simply a better hitter, and hardly ever strikes out. Cairo had a great year for the Yankees in 2004, and barring injury such as in 2005, I have no doubt that we could see a repeat performance.
Not only that but Cairo like playing for the Yankees, he like being in the Bronx and he didn't want to leave, that was his agent's fault, not his. I think he is one of the few players that has the ability to play BETTER than their career numbers in the Bronx.
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 03:18 PM
Cairo is simply a better hitter, and hardly ever strikes out. Cairo had a great year for the Yankees in 2004, and barring injury such as in 2005, I have no doubt that we could see a repeat performance.
Why? 2004 was not a typical Miguel Cairo year.
Roberto Kelly
12-11-05, 03:18 PM
Did we trade Sturtze?
Hopefully.
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 03:19 PM
Not only that but Cairo like playing for the Yankees, he like being in the Bronx and he didn't want to leave, that was his agent's fault, not his. I think he is one of the few players that has the ability to play BETTER than their career numbers in the Bronx.
He played on the team for one year.
NewEraYanks2527
12-11-05, 03:38 PM
He played on the team for one year. And had a great year, had big hits when they were needed. Do you remember that July 1st game? Come on it just seemed like he liked being here and that he was thriving and he was just thrilled to be a Yankee and also considering the fact that alot of people make judgements based on 1 year I dont see the problem with me saying good things about Cairo based on his 1 year with us.
And had a great year, had big hits when they were needed. Do you remember that July 1st game? Come on it just seemed like he liked being here and that he was thriving and he was just thrilled to be a Yankee and also considering the fact that alot of people make judgements based on 1 year I dont see the problem with me saying good things about Cairo based on his 1 year with us.
I'm actually in favor getting Cairo, since he would be a manageable IF glove should one of the starters need rest. But basing judgement on a player on one incredibly out-of-context season is a really bad means of evaluation.
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 03:53 PM
And had a great year, had big hits when they were needed. Do you remember that July 1st game? Come on it just seemed like he liked being here and that he was thriving and he was just thrilled to be a Yankee and also considering the fact that alot of people make judgements based on 1 year I dont see the problem with me saying good things about Cairo based on his 1 year with us.
I am sure he loved being here, and he was a good addition to this team in 2004. However, why should we spend money on getting a utility infielder when we have one in Escalona? Cairo is not an above average player, and it would just follow the 'nostalgia effect' of bringing back Tino, Sierra, and Stanton if Cairo comes back. Cashman is determined, it seems, to use Bubba Crosby and Andy Phillips as starters, but he is going to sign Cairo to back up when we already have Escalona? Where's the punch line to this joke?
NewEraYanks2527
12-11-05, 03:58 PM
I am sure he loved being here, and he was a good addition to this team in 2004. However, why should we spend money on getting a utility infielder when we have one in Escalona? Cairo is not an above average player, and it would just follow the 'nostalgia effect' of bringing back Tino, Sierra, and Stanton if Cairo comes back. Cashman is determined, it seems, to use Bubba Crosby and Andy Phillips as starters, but he is going to sign Cairo to back up when we already have Escalona? Where's the punch line to this joke? I just think Cairo is a better option off the bench than Escalona, he will cost more yes but he is also a better hitter. However I really don't think Cashman is determined to use Crosby and Phillips as starters, I think he is determined to make everyone think that so he can deal for a starting CFer like Reed.
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 04:02 PM
So he just thinks other GMs are dead retarded? Nobody in their right minds is fooled by them saying they're prepared to use Crosby and Andy.
Even if they did believe he was willing to use Bubba, why would other teams be sympathetic to that? "The Yankees are using Crosby, so lets trade them a CFer that is going to be an upgrade."
I don't see that happening.
NewEraYanks2527
12-11-05, 04:03 PM
I'm actually favor getting Cairo, since he would be a manageable IF glove should one of the starters need rest. But basing judgement on a player on one incredibly out-of-context season is a really bad means of evaluation.
And I agree with you, I'm pointing out that everyone seems to look at that "one year" when they value a player. Let's see there is Adrian Beltre's contract, Carl Pavano's contract, the notion to get rid of Vazquez(it is good that we did though) oh and how many people crucified A-Rod after his 2004 season saying "his is not the player we traded for we should trade him and see what we get?" Or how about the people around here that base things on players blowing one game or making the last out. I'm simply pointing out if people are going to absolutely bash a player based on one year then the same goes for praising a player for just one year. I like Cairo and would like to see him in the utility role, I was just trying to illustrate a point which apparently was not clear enough.
NewEraYanks2527
12-11-05, 04:05 PM
So he just thinks other GMs are dead retarded? Nobody in their right minds is fooled by them saying they're prepared to use Crosby and Andy.
Even if they did believe he was willing to use Bubba, why would other teams be sympathetic to that? "The Yankees are using Crosby, so lets trade them a CFer that is going to be an upgrade."
I don't see that happening. I am not saying I agree with it. It is more like when you go buy a new car and you have your heart set on one or your car is obvioulsy not going to make it, you are not just going to come out and say that you want people to at least think you are entertaining the notion of "Hey I can walk away from this deal, I got a car, it doesnt meant that much to me" he is just being a buisness man.
So he just thinks other GMs are dead retarded? Nobody in their right minds is fooled by them saying they're prepared to use Crosby and Andy.
Even if they did believe he was willing to use Bubba, why would other teams be sympathetic to that? "The Yankees are using Crosby, so lets trade them a CFer that is going to be an upgrade."
I don't see that happening.
Nobody believes any of the sports cliches. They're suppossed to be silly and boring. That doesn't mean you don't use them. This is no different. When asked the question about CF, there has to be some response. Better it be the silly cliche than something which might open the door to unneeded controversy.
Yankees1962
12-11-05, 04:32 PM
So he just thinks other GMs are dead retarded? Nobody in their right minds is fooled by them saying they're prepared to use Crosby and Andy.
Even if they did believe he was willing to use Bubba, why would other teams be sympathetic to that? "The Yankees are using Crosby, so lets trade them a CFer that is going to be an upgrade."
I don't see that happening.
What do you want Cashman to say when asked by the media about CF?
ryanthe13th
12-11-05, 04:45 PM
What do you want Cashman to say when asked by the media about CF?
That he is aggresively looking for a better CFer. Not saying that Crosby would be fine in CF.
38Special
12-11-05, 04:50 PM
That he is aggresively looking for a better CFer. Not saying that Crosby would be fine in CF.
It's like beating a dead horse. It weakens his position by looking desperate. That's all.
YankeePride1967
12-11-05, 04:50 PM
That he is aggresively looking for a better CFer. Not saying that Crosby would be fine in CF.
Great idea, us fans would feel better despite the fact the cost for said CF would go up. What a GM says in the press often times contradicts what is actually going on. Rest assured Brian is out there uncovering every rock to find a CF.
YankeePride1967
12-11-05, 04:52 PM
It's like beating a dead horse. It weakens his position by looking desperate. That's all.
I don't understand why it's that difficult a concept to understand. I think Yankee fans are used to George (who runs a team like a fan) calling the shots that now that we are refusing to overpay for the first car they see on the lot it's something new.
Yankees1962
12-11-05, 04:52 PM
That he is aggresively looking for a better CFer. Not saying that Crosby would be fine in CF.
You must have missed that memo, since, he already stated he was looking to upgrade CF in different media reports?
YankeePride1967
12-11-05, 04:54 PM
You must have missed that memo, since, he already stated that in different media reports?
Not enough, he has to say "we are desperate for a CF and will pay any rate to get one" so goodbye Wang and Cano or hello Johnny Damon for 7 years.
Yankees1962
12-11-05, 04:56 PM
Not enough, he has to say "we are desperate for a CF and will pay any rate to get one" so goodbye Wang and Cano or hello Johnny Damon for 7 years.
What can you say, he's young and wants his instant gratification.
goin for 27
12-11-05, 07:17 PM
Great idea, us fans would feel better despite the fact the cost for said CF would go up. What a GM says in the press often times contradicts what is actually going on. Rest assured Brian is out there uncovering every rock to find a CF.
The reality, though is that Casman's comments do nothing. If we as fans fully understand that Crosby stinks, and would weaken the team significantly, certainly every GM in the league does as well.
What does Cashman do, phone Jon Daniels in Texas, inquire about Matthews Jr, for example, and say he is just curious?
He says he is happy with Bubba, so if he can't pull off a deal, there is a good face on things, that is it. It would not weaken his position in what talent he would have to deal if he said that he was actively trying to replace him.
YankeePride1967
12-11-05, 07:19 PM
The reality, though is that Casman's comments do nothing. If we as fans fully understand that Crosby stinks, and would weaken the team significantly, certainly every GM in the league does as well.
What does Cashman do, phone Jon Daniels in Texas, inquire about Matthews Jr, for example, and say he is just curious?
He says he is happy with Bubba, so if he can't pull off a deal, there is a good face on things, that is it. It would not weaken his position in what talent he would have to deal if he said that he was actively trying to replace him.
Yes, I am aware of that, but it would defeat all logic if he said anything to the contrary. I do believe that if the choice came down to making a real bad deal or starting the season with Bubba, that Bubba will start. There was enough of Crosby at the end of the year to lead creedence to not being desperate.
Quangormo
12-11-05, 09:14 PM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/59339.htm
The Yankees are believed to be interested in free agent Eduardo Perez, who hit .255 with 11 homers and a .368 OBP in just 161 at-bats with Tampa Bay this past year. The 36-year-old Perez, a right-handed hitter who played mostly first base in 2005, hit 10 of those homers in 137 at-bats against lefties. He also clobbered the Yankees this past year, going deep four times in 17 at-bats.
I thought Brian said we didn't need any help at 1B/DH. I hope this isn't a sign that the Tampa Mafia is asserting itself again.
Quangormo
12-11-05, 09:19 PM
I am sure he loved being here, and he was a good addition to this team in 2004. However, why should we spend money on getting a utility infielder when we have one in Escalona?
Becasue CAiro is a proven backup player, while Escalona hasn't proven anything. Nobody knows if he's a competent major leaguer, even in a backup role. Cairo is.
Quangormo
12-11-05, 09:23 PM
the notion to get rid of Vazquez(it is good that we did though)
I would take Javy back in a heartbeat. Add him to the rotation adn teh Yankees are virtually unbeatable. Javy Vazquez, despite his rotten year in New York, is a solid major-league pitcher. Not an ace, maybe, but a good pitcher to have in your rotation. I'd deal any but about two or three of our starters for him
Don Mack
12-12-05, 07:51 AM
I would take Javy back in a heartbeat. Add him to the rotation adn teh Yankees are virtually unbeatable. Javy Vazquez, despite his rotten year in New York, is a solid major-league pitcher. Not an ace, maybe, but a good pitcher to have in your rotation. I'd deal any but about two or three of our starters for him
----------------------------------------------------------------
He was 11-15 with a 4.42 ERA for Arizona last season in the NL where you only have to pitch to 8 batters and get an automatic out with the pitcher. Those aren't good numbers at all. The good news is that he has given Arizona a list of teams he DOESN'T want to be traded to and the Yankees are on that list. So thankfully, we won't have to watch him serve up those delicious gopher balls he loves to throw.
ZIM 2002
12-12-05, 10:19 AM
I like the idea of getting Cairo back. He gave Mattingly a lot of credit for his good year hitting in 2004, so maybe we will see the same Cairo this year.
I have no problem with Cairo coming back as a utility/backup IF. He did very well in 2004 and won the starting job over Enrique (remember that???).
The Dynasty
12-12-05, 04:33 PM
Cairo has proven that he can play pretty damn well in Yankee pinstripes. He gets the clutch hits, can field pretty much every position except for center, short, and catcher, doesn't strike out, hustles, and is a great team guy.
I'm all for Miggy coming back.
ring403
12-27-05, 10:24 PM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1228,0,4972993.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
Notes & quotes: The Yankees expect to sign utility infielder Miguel Cairo to a one-year deal this week, according to a person familiar with the negotiations. Cairo, who was the Yankees' starting second baseman in 2004, probably could receive more playing time with another team, but he prefers to return to the Yankees after a year with the Mets.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks1228,0,4972993.story?coll=ny-yankees-bigpix
Let's hope they sign him to a contract near the minimum.
27IsNext
12-27-05, 10:35 PM
I think Cairo would be solid in a limited role.
Evil Empire
12-27-05, 10:38 PM
I wonder how he'd do in Right Field.
I wonder how he'd do in Right Field.
Has there ever been a RFer on a Championship caliber team with a lifetime OPS+ of 77?
JeffWeaverFan
12-27-05, 10:43 PM
I wonder how he'd do in Right Field.
I know that your thinking of putting him (or anyone) in there so we can DH Sheff but Cairo just doesn't hit enough to be an everyday player.
He had a good season with us but with the Mets he hit: .251/.296/.324. Phillips would be a better option for the RF role.
JeffWeaverFan
12-27-05, 10:53 PM
Has there ever been a RFer on a Championship caliber team with a lifetime OPS+ of 77?
Bill O'Neill was the RFer on the 1906 Champion White Sox and had a career OPS+ of 81!
Paul Radford was the RFer of the 1884 Champion Providence Grays and had an OPS+ that year of 59, but his career OPS+ was a respectible 91.
And with that, I have wasted the last 5 minutes of my life.
AMYanks
12-27-05, 10:54 PM
Cairo would be a nice bench addition. Can play multiple positions.
hellonewman
12-27-05, 10:55 PM
Has there ever been a RFer on a Championship caliber team with a lifetime OPS+ of 77?Probably not, though I'm guessing Charlie Moore (1982 Brewers) may have made a run at it.
JeffWeaverFan
12-27-05, 11:20 PM
Probably not, though I'm guessing Charlie Moore (1982 Brewers) may have made a run at it.
89 career OPS+ with an 85 OPS+ that year.
hellonewman
12-27-05, 11:24 PM
89 career OPS+ with an 85 OPS+ that year.
Hmmm ... better hitter than I thought ("better" being a highly relative term here).
MisterNovember
12-27-05, 11:45 PM
I know that your thinking of putting him (or anyone) in there so we can DH Sheff but Cairo just doesn't hit enough to be an everyday player.
He had a good season with us but with the Mets he hit: .251/.296/.324. Phillips would be a better option for the RF role.
Can Phillips even play LEFTfield? I don't see him (or Cairo, for that matter) having the arm for RF.
JeffWeaverFan
12-27-05, 11:53 PM
Can Phillips even play LEFTfield? I don't see him (or Cairo, for that matter) having the arm for RF.
He played LF for one game last year. I know they tried him in the corner outfield positions after ST because he could hit. Phillips wouldn't be the regular guy in my plan. He'd play some 1B, LF, and RF. It would just be so those guys could get the day off in terms of defense.
MisterNovember
12-28-05, 12:33 AM
He played LF for one game last year. I know they tried him in the corner outfield positions after ST because he could hit. Phillips wouldn't be the regular guy in my plan. He'd play some 1B, LF, and RF. It would just be so those guys could get the day off in terms of defense.
Fair enough, but I'd rather play Bubba in RF over Crosby. The offensive production is comparable and at least we know he can play the position.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Yanks try to acquire a full time OF/1B like Wilkerson to give Giambi and Sheff some time at DH. Wilkerson might be a bit too costly, and Cairo certainly isn't the answer in RF, so I'm not sure who we could get.
guidry36
12-28-05, 01:02 AM
Cairo would be a great addition. He is great insurance.....and versatile. He could play OF in an emergency, but Bubba Crosby will be fine as the 4th OF. With the Yankees lineup, Sheffield, Matsui, or Damon could DH as needed.....Crosby would upgrade the defense on that day......and he would be fine as the occasional #9 hitter. Crosby isn't as likely to gripe about a lack of playing time as many of the "upgrades" that are being suggested for #4 OF. As the roster curently stands, DH can be rotated between Giambi, Bernie and Sheffield..... and any of the other starters could occasionally play there. It would not hurt the team at all to play Crosby, Cairo, or Stinnett for a game. Re-signing Cairo would correct the mistake of signing Womack.
JeffWeaverFan
12-28-05, 01:14 AM
Fair enough, but I'd rather play Bubba in RF over Crosby. The offensive production is comparable and at least we know he can play the position.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Yanks try to acquire a full time OF/1B like Wilkerson to give Giambi and Sheff some time at DH. Wilkerson might be a bit too costly, and Cairo certainly isn't the answer in RF, so I'm not sure who we could get.
I assume you mean Bubba over Phillips. Defensively, I agree, but I very much disagree that the offensive production is compareable.
TheScooter
12-28-05, 04:43 AM
The Yankees seem likely to add Miguel Cairo in the coming days in what could be their final significant off-season move.
Although a deal is not imminent, Cairo has expressed an interest in returning to the Yankees, and he fits their need for a utility player
http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1135755381108110.xml&coll=1
keithf1
12-28-05, 09:20 AM
Let's get this deal done already :).
mjdlight
12-28-05, 10:10 AM
Let's get this deal done already :).
It is weird how long the Yanks tend to drag out even the smallest of deals. Cairo is fine in the utility role. Glad we don't have to start him at 2B these days though. :)
ryanthe13th
12-28-05, 10:14 AM
If we sign Cairo I hope it is for longer than 1 year. We need some stability on this team, and all these 1 year deals aren't very stable.
ring403
12-28-05, 10:46 AM
If we sign Cairo I hope it is for longer than 1 year. We need some stability on this team, and all these 1 year deals aren't very stable.The Yankees problem is that they are far too "stable". They are saddled with alot of high-priced, backloaded, immovable contracts. I don't see a need to add to the problem by inking utility infielders to multi-year deals.
ryanthe13th
12-28-05, 10:52 AM
The Yankees problem is that they are far too "stable". They are saddled with alot of high-priced, backloaded, immovable contracts. I don't see a need to add to the problem by inking utility infielders to multi-year deals.
Having A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Matsui, and Damon inked for the years they are inked is not a bad thing. Sheffield is in his last year, and worst case scenario with Posada: we have him through 2007.
ring403
12-28-05, 11:03 AM
Having A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Matsui, and Damon inked for the years they are inked is not a bad thing. Of course it is a bad thing. Jeter, Giambi, and A-Rod are currently being paid much more than they could get in today's market. As all of the players you mention age, the disparity in their production and their salaries will become even more glaring. The situation with Bernie should still be fresh in mind.
It's a simple fact that the longer a contract runs, the less likely it is that any given player will produce enough to justify his salary.
BronxByTheBay
12-28-05, 11:05 AM
Of course it is a bad thing. Jeter, Giambi, and A-Rod are currently being paid much more than they could get in today's market. As all of the players you mention age, the disparity in their production and their salaries will become even more glaring. The situation with Bernie should still be fresh in mind.
It's a simple fact that the longer a contract runs, the less likely it is that any given player will produce enough to justify his salary.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything here, except one question on Bernie:
Would you have let him walk that year instead of signing him to that contract?
Of course it is a bad thing. Jeter, Giambi, and A-Rod are currently being paid much more than they could get in today's market. As all of the players you mention age, the disparity in their production and their salaries will become even more glaring. The situation with Bernie should still be fresh in mind.
It's a simple fact that the longer a contract runs, the less likely it is that any given player will produce enough to justify his salary.
I'm pretty sure that AROD could get $16M. That being said, you have to look at the whole deal and not just the last few years. If the guy was underpayed at the beginning of the contract, then being overpayed at the end is less of an issue.
mjdlight
12-28-05, 11:11 AM
Yankees have an unforunate number of pre-2002 CBA/Dotcom bust contracts on their roster. There's nothing that can be done about it.
Best plan is to augment the increasingly expensive and declining production we're going to get from them with young cheap talent from the farm. Thank you, Mr. Cashman, for not trading Cano for Pierre, etc. :)
ring403
12-28-05, 11:20 AM
I don't necessarily disagree with anything here, except one question on Bernie:
Would you have let him walk that year instead of signing him to that contract?
Given the market at the time, the lack of good alternatives, and the fact that he was going to Boston, I probably would have done what the Yankees did.
Would I do it now, after seeing the long term effects of these albatross contracts? Absolutely not. If it takes 6 or 7 years to land any player, it just isn't worth it. Had the Yankees not neglected their farm system over the years, most of these big money FA contracts would never have been necessary.
YankClipper5
12-28-05, 11:25 AM
Given the market at the time, the lack of good alternatives, and the fact that he was going to Boston, I probably would have done what the Yankees did.
Would I do it now, after seeing the long term effects of these albatross contracts? Absolutely not. If it takes 6 or 7 years to land any player, it just isn't worth it. Had the Yankees not neglected their farm system over the years, most of these big money FA contracts would never have been necessary.
I think the Yanks have learned their lesson and I think even in hindsight they would have made the Bernie deal, but been wiser and perhaps invested in Beltran last year. The Yanks are showing signs of realizing their mistakes in hanging on to young talent now. They also showed restraint in not signing Damon longer than they did to lock him up early (4 years is still excessive for him but they had to do it).
Dr. Gonzo
12-28-05, 11:38 AM
Having A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Matsui, and Damon inked for the years they are inked is not a bad thing. Sheffield is in his last year, and worst case scenario with Posada: we have him through 2007.
don't forget that if his 07 option kicks in, so does a player option for 08
Yankees1962
12-28-05, 11:48 AM
don't forget that if his 07 option kicks in, so does a player option for 08
Why do people insist on repeating this misinformation about a non-existent 2008 contract?
ring403
12-28-05, 11:55 AM
I'm pretty sure that AROD could get $16M. A-Rod is due to make $25 million next season, and $27 million in the following 2 years. The Yankees aren't paying for it all, but my point was that nobody in the league could get a contract like that today.
Alex Rodriguez 3b
10 years/$252M (2001-10)
* signed as free agent 12/00
* $242M in annual salaries
* $10M signing bonus (paid $2M/year, 2001-05)
* Salaries: 01-04:$21M/year, 05-06:$25M/year, 07-10:$27M/year
* may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player
* no-trade clause
* $0.1M All Star incentive
* MVP bonus
o $0.5M for 2003 AL MVP award
o $1M for 2005 AL MVP award
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
A-Rod is due to make $25 million next season, and $27 million in the following 2 years. The Yankees aren't paying for it all, but my point was that nobody in the league could get a contract like that today.
Alex Rodriguez 3b
10 years/$252M (2001-10)
* signed as free agent 12/00
* $242M in annual salaries
* $10M signing bonus (paid $2M/year, 2001-05)
* Salaries: 01-04:$21M/year, 05-06:$25M/year, 07-10:$27M/year
* may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player
* no-trade clause
* $0.1M All Star incentive
* MVP bonus
o $0.5M for 2003 AL MVP award
o $1M for 2005 AL MVP award
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
I understand that, but the market has already adjusted him down to his real worth, which is what his current team was willing to pay him. It doesn't seem like he therefore belongs on the list.
I still think the worst of the Yankee contracts is Jeter's. At least Giambi makes a viable DH as he ages. I'm not sure where Jeter goes in his mid-thirties.
I understand that, but the market has already adjusted him down to his real worth, which is what his current team was willing to pay him. It doesn't seem like he therefore belongs on the list.
I still think the worst of the Yankee contracts is Jeter's. At least Giambi makes a viable DH as he ages. I'm not sure where Jeter goes in his mid-thirties.
It really does depend on how their respective skills deteriorate or injuries hurt them (Giambi's back could just finish him like Mattingly), but right now Jeter and Giambi are pretty much equally valuable at their respective positions and they get paid a similar amount. I think Jeter's contract is 2 years longer, but Giambi is 3 years older.
I'd say they are overpaid pretty similarly, in today's market probably about 7-8 million each.
I understand that, but the market has already adjusted him down to his real worth, which is what his current team was willing to pay him. It doesn't seem like he therefore belongs on the list.
I still think the worst of the Yankee contracts is Jeter's. At least Giambi makes a viable DH as he ages. I'm not sure where Jeter goes in his mid-thirties.
I don't really think that is accurate. Sure, the Yankees are paying less than the $25-27 million he will be making over the next few years, but ring's point still stands: No one would get a contract like that today (actually, maybe if you are a starting pitcher in the AL - kidding). The fact that Texas is picking up some of his salary simply shows that he has a ridiculous contract than nobody would take on without support, not that his value has been re-adjusted to some current market value, in my opinion.
I agree that the worst of the Yankees contracts is Jeters.
shutout
12-28-05, 04:34 PM
A-Rod is due to make $25 million next season, and $27 million in the following 2 years. The Yankees aren't paying for it all, but my point was that nobody in the league could get a contract like that today.
Alex Rodriguez 3b
10 years/$252M (2001-10)
* signed as free agent 12/00
* $242M in annual salaries
* $10M signing bonus (paid $2M/year, 2001-05)
* Salaries: 01-04:$21M/year, 05-06:$25M/year, 07-10:$27M/year
* may opt out after 2007 unless he gets an $8M/year raise or $1M more than MLB’s highest-paid player
* no-trade clause
* $0.1M All Star incentive
* MVP bonus
o $0.5M for 2003 AL MVP award
o $1M for 2005 AL MVP award
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
wow I actually never had a good look at Arods contract... what the heck.. Im shocked. Do I understand correctly that he could demand after 2007 a 35 million salary? wow.
I agree with all of you: no other player could get a contract like that nowadays; only maybe Pujols ;)
mycroft
12-28-05, 05:16 PM
Great move. I didn't like it last year when we let him go. Cairo stabilizes the infield and he can hit.
Spiker101
12-28-05, 05:31 PM
wow I actually never had a good look at Arods contract... what the heck.. Im shocked. Do I understand correctly that he could demand after 2007 a 35 million salary? wow.
I agree with all of you: no other player could get a contract like that nowadays; only maybe Pujols ;)
Technically he could. But somehow I don't think he's going to.
hellonewman
12-28-05, 05:33 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/13502521.htm
NEW YORK - Infielder Miguel Cairo and the New York Yankees neared agreement Wednesday on a one-year contract worth between $900,000 and $1 million.
AMYanks
12-28-05, 05:38 PM
Good, let's get it done.
It really does depend on how their respective skills deteriorate or injuries hurt them (Giambi's back could just finish him like Mattingly), but right now Jeter and Giambi are pretty much equally valuable at their respective positions and they get paid a similar amount. I think Jeter's contract is 2 years longer, but Giambi is 3 years older.
I'd say they are overpaid pretty similarly, in today's market probably about 7-8 million each.
I think the problem is that Giambi has the value he has at DH. That's something he can keep doing even with a decline. The problem with Jeter's deal is that, for the last few years, you have Bernie redux...a guy who is unlikely to be able to field his position (or another up the middle position) yet won't have a bat like Giambi's to hold a corner spot or DH.
I don't really think that is accurate. Sure, the Yankees are paying less than the $25-27 million he will be making over the next few years, but ring's point still stands: No one would get a contract like that today (actually, maybe if you are a starting pitcher in the AL - kidding). The fact that Texas is picking up some of his salary simply shows that he has a ridiculous contract than nobody would take on without support, not that his value has been re-adjusted to some current market value, in my opinion.
I agree that the worst of the Yankees contracts is Jeters.
Yeah, but ring's orignal point was that the Yankees have too many guys who THEY are currently overpaying or will overpay. If the Yankees aren't actually overpaying AROD, why include him in that discussion?
C-BUS CLIPPER
12-28-05, 06:18 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/13502521.htm
NEW YORK - Infielder Miguel Cairo and the New York Yankees neared agreement Wednesday on a one-year contract worth between $900,000 and $1 million.
Excellent news. Get Miggy signed.
Excellent news. Get Miggy signed.
Great news.
Now they can trade Cano. :P
(before you bite my head off--j/k)
guidry36
12-28-05, 06:55 PM
Why do people insist on repeating this misinformation about a non-existent 2008 contract?
From mlb4u.com:
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/mlb/players/5/5502.jpgJorge Posada: 5-Year worth 51M- + receives a 15M signing bonus paid over 5 years ( paid 1.5M '02, 2M '03, 3M '04, 4M '05, 4.5M '06)- + he will make 4M in 2002, in 2003- 5M, in 2004- 6M and in 2005- 8M and in 2006- 9M- + the deal includes a Team Option for 2007 worth 12M or a 4M buyout- + he Can void deal after 2004- + if he catches 330 games between 2004 and 2006, his 2007 option becomes guaranteed and a Player Option for 2008 is added Agents: Alan Nero and Luis Espinel Service Time: 8.085
Either Cot's is right and there is no 2008 option.....or this is right and there is a 2008 option.
I would like to see the issue resolved.....is there an official MLB source for contract information?? It would obviously be for the best if there is no 2008 option. It is possible that mlb4u.com isn't a reliable source......or it could be that it is generally reliable, but made a mistake on the details of Posada's contract. Cot's has a good reputation, from what I understand. I would just like to know, OFFICIALLY, what the options are on Posada's deal. Do you have any other sources for mlb contract info??
keithf1
12-28-05, 06:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2273542
Yeah, but ring's orignal point was that the Yankees have too many guys who THEY are currently overpaying or will overpay. If the Yankees aren't actually overpaying AROD, why include him in that discussion?
Agreed. Nevermind then.
$900,000 to $1.000.000 is a little too much.
$900,000 to $1.000.000 is a little too much.
Apparently, he got 900K the last time with the Yankees according to BRef.
Apparently, he got 900K the last time with the Yankees according to BRef.
I'd rather them give him a bit less so he can be more of a throw away player if necessary.
shutout
12-28-05, 07:27 PM
This will be a bad deal. He isn't good for anything for us. He won't improve the team: no improvement means no deal.
ICEBERG18
12-28-05, 07:53 PM
$900,000 to $1.000.000 is a little too much.
Why not give the job to Kevin Howard?
Jersey Yankee
12-28-05, 07:59 PM
Of course it is a bad thing. Jeter, Giambi, and A-Rod are currently being paid much more than they could get in today's market. As all of the players you mention age, the disparity in their production and their salaries will become even more glaring. The situation with Bernie should still be fresh in mind.
Since the Yanks are only paying about $16m of A-Rod's salary, I'm not sure how overpaid he is. For Jeter and Giambi, I'd definitely agree with you.
When we got A-Rod, he had $179m over 7 years remaining, of which Tom Hicks agreed to pay $67m, leaving us with $112m/7 years, or $16m per.
Jersey Yankee
12-28-05, 08:00 PM
Apparently, he got 900K the last time with the Yankees according to BRef.
From the same, his BA, OPS has shrunk seriously from 2004. I'm not too sure about him anymore.
IncredibleByNature
12-28-05, 08:01 PM
I'd like to see Miggy return.
Why not give the job to Kevin Howard?
I'm not sure he'd be ready. He may be? If the Yankees gave Cairo a smaller contract and Howard (or someone) rose to the occasion, it would be no problem to trade or dump Cairo. At a million bucks, they probably will stick with Cairo all year.
hellonewman
12-28-05, 08:04 PM
Barring injury, utility infielder on the 2006 Yankees will be kind of like being the punter on the Colts: the Maytag repairman of sports, you sit and watch for a living. With A-Rod at 3rd, Jeter at short and a 23-year-old at 2B, Cairo may not get 50 at-bats all season.
YankeePride1967
12-28-05, 08:10 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/13502521.htm
NEW YORK - Infielder Miguel Cairo and the New York Yankees neared agreement Wednesday on a one-year contract worth between $900,000 and $1 million.
Very good, versatile backup at a reasonable price.
AMYanks
12-28-05, 08:13 PM
Barring injury, utility infielder on the 2006 Yankees will be kind of like being the punter on the Colts: the Maytag repairman of sports, you sit and watch for a living. With A-Rod at 3rd, Jeter at short and a 23-year-old at 2B, Cairo may not get 50 at-bats all season.
Hopefully he is used some for late inning replacement, and also at 1B, with some OF play.
Why not give the job to Kevin Howard?
Because he's a stretch defensively at 2nd, let alone SS, and because as a left handed hitter, he really doesn't compliment Cano. I'd just as soon go with Escalona over Cairo, but I'm not going to get too upset about it.
Hopefully he is used some for late inning replacement, and also at 1B, with some OF play.
Why would he ever play 1B if the yankees already have Phillips on the roster? I can see Cairo getting some starts against tough lefties over Cano/coming in on defense if Cano gets pinch hit for against a lefty, and that's about it..round 100 AB or so.
goin for 27
12-28-05, 10:30 PM
I am not going to complain too much about Cairo, but for such great talent 1-9, the drop off is extremely precipitous when you look at the bench. I wish we had a Wilkerson or the like - if there are a couple of injuries, this team can suffer quickly.
surge511
12-28-05, 10:38 PM
Cairo is a fine option as a backup, he should fill in nicely in the IF if someone goes down for a long time.
Obviously there won't be equal talent on the bench. There is a reason they are on the bench - they are not good enough to start. If Arod goes down for a month, there is no backup Arod. But good, solid depth isn't too much to ask, and I feel comfortable with Cairo and Bernie as the main replacements.
ryanthe13th
12-28-05, 11:09 PM
So now we have Andy, Bubba, Bernie, and Miggy.
Why did we re-sign Bernie Williams again?
ring403
12-28-05, 11:11 PM
It's a done deal, pending a physical. Let's continue here: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92132
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