Clemens Not Offered Arbitration: Steve Phillips(ESPN) predicts him in another uniform [Archive] - Page 2

TEPLimey

01-04-06, 08:52 PM

Huh? Are you really asking whether the guy's such an improvement over those 2? You can't be serious. Clemens is coming off a season that was more dominant in the NL than RJ's 2004 campaign. If not for his absurd HRs allowed, RJ would've easily been one of the AL's top 3 starters in 2005. If there's even a possibility that Clemens would come to NY, the Yanks must explore it. They would have to drop Pavano to do so and take almost nothing back in trading him.

It would be a very complicated move, but it must be explored if the goal is to win the 2006 World Series. That's the counter argument.

I agree that Clemens is an improvement over Small or Wright. However, I don't believe that he is a $15M improvement over them.

noneckwilliams

01-04-06, 09:17 PM

Even more boring than sports writers writing articles about non-stories are complaints about it. Who cares what they write about?

What I care about in sports is the Y's winning the WS again next year. And that goal would be more easily achievable were Clemens a part of the rotation. If you deny that Clemens would improve the Y's rotation, perhaps you should be writing for the Post yourself.

Now, I grant that it is a different question whether the Yanks could spend 20 million more wisely. But don't tell me that Clemens couldn't help the Yankees. If the Red Sox sign him, you would probably end up singing a different tune.

I hope he signs with the Red Sox. He and Mr. Schilling would make quite a reliable 1-2 punch.

rajah

01-05-06, 06:51 AM

I hope he signs with the Red Sox. He and Mr. Schilling would make quite a reliable 1-2 punch.

This discussion is about Clemens's pitching; it is not about Schilling any more than it is about how reporters cover Clemens. Your reference to Schilling only underscores the unreliability of most prominent starting pitchers around the league.

So back to Clemens as a pitcher: Which Yankee starter(s) do you consider more reliable for the next season? I think they all have question marks.

shutout

01-05-06, 09:24 AM

I think it would be great to have a reliable guy like Clemens on the Yankees next season. We could use him very much imho.

goin for 27

01-05-06, 10:18 AM

I agree that Clemens is an improvement over Small or Wright. However, I don't believe that he is a $15M improvement over them.

With the current salaries being thrown around, he certainly would be a $15M improvement to these guys.

In fact, if healthy, Clemens could absolutely outpitch everyone in our rotation. Even RJ, as Clemens can enter a season healthy, as he has no chronic injuries, RJ can't.

I don't think that he is coming here, but the Yanks should be all over him.

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 12:33 PM

Oh please. Roger was the one throwing the pitches right down the middle.

You're also talking about the All-Star Game, which means absolutely nothing. Players actually take themselves OUT of the All-Star Game. Clemens getting rocked by the AL in the All-Star Game in 2004 means nothing. Dontrelle Willis got rocked in the 2005 All-Star Game.

P.S.: In 2005, Clemens pitched a perfect 5th inning in the 2005 All-Star Game getting David Ortiz to fly out to left field, Garet Anderson to ground to second, and MVP Miguel Tejada to ground out to second.

Tifoso

01-05-06, 12:43 PM

I would guess that the Yanks "interest" is a ploy to drive his price up to another team (Sox?).

If he signs with Boston, and pulls the old "my heart was always with this team", I will puke.

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 12:45 PM

I don't think Roger will re-sign with Boston after the way they sent him off. It's funny to see how Sox fans are starting to lose their disliking for him though, once there were reports that the Sox called him.

Mr. Mxylsplk

01-05-06, 12:49 PM

I agree that Clemens is an improvement over Small or Wright. However, I don't believe that he is a $15M improvement over them.
I really don't understand how people can say this. There's certainly age risk with Clemens, and that's a legitimate concern. But his recent history is simply fabulous, and for a contending team with some pretty big pitching questions, which is what the yanks sure look like to me, he'd be tremendously valuable.

Tifoso

01-05-06, 12:53 PM

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 12:58 PM

I really don't understand how people can say this. There's certainly age risk with Clemens, and that's a legitimate concern. But his recent history is simply fabulous, and for a contending team with some pretty big pitching questions, which is what the yanks sure look like to me, he'd be tremendously valuable.

Another thing about adding Clemens is that we'll have Johnson AND Clemens on our team, plus Mussina. Our #1, 2, 3 starter's would all be above 35. That's kind've scary considering Mussina is usually a DL stint a year, Johnson has nagging injuries, AND Clemens breaks down towards the end of the year. There is a possibility that injuries could leave us with a post-season rotation of:

- Wang
- Chacon
- Wright
- Small

Now that is just looking at it from every concivable angle. The odds of that happening aren't very high. Clemens coming back would be an addition, but then next year we'd have to worry about filling his hole when he pulls this stunt again, and it's also the Moose's walk year. Again, if we can get a solid corner outfielder, it may be worth it so we can DH Sheffield in his walk year. However if Clemens wants a huge pay day, he should go somewhere else.

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 12:58 PM

I could live with him, TBH. :D

Unit
Rocket
Pavano
Wang
Chacon

Wright and/or Small gone for a RF+ (possibly) inning eater

Where is Mussina?

Tifoso

01-05-06, 01:09 PM

Where is Mussina?

Crap--knew I forgot one. :o

Unit
Rocket
Moose
Wang
Pavano

Chacon long man, then

Small and Wright traded for RF

Who?

goin for 27

01-05-06, 01:31 PM

The endless speculation about Roger's future (Will he head back to Boston? A Rocket Reload in the Bronx? Does he want to pitch to his son the Astros farm system?) is boring - period. His endless vacilations are boring. His endless groin and hamstring injuries are boring. The guy was a 6 inning AL pitcher when he left the Yankees 2 years ago - he ain't any better now. They pay this guy $20 mil next year I'd be embarrassed to root for the Yankees.

I have no ill will toward Clemens. I enjoyed his time in Pinstripes and did not feel betrayed when he went to Houston. I rooted for him last season. He makes no sense on this team. We have a Clemens. His name is Randy Johnson.

He has pitched 200+ innings 8 of the last 10 year, the other 2 exceeding 180 innings.

At least hamstring and groin injuries can go away. Randy has chronic injuries with his left knee and back, these are here to stay.

He made 32 starts last year, and pitched more than 6 innings in 21 of them. RJ pitched more than 6 innings in 20 games.

In 2005, Clemens started 33 games, and pitched more than 6 innings in 22 of them.

He is a "6 inning pitcher" as much as Pedro Martinez is. It is a fallacy.

Finally, "We have a Roger Clemens, his name is Randy Johnson". What does that mean? If we could get another player like ARod for CF, would you say "no thanks, we have an ARod already".

I think both Clemens and RJ are risks next year. That risk is mitigated by having BOTH on your team.

I take Clemens in a heartbeat. One year, I could care less what he costs.

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 03:32 PM

Chacon long man, then

Why? Chacon as a starter would benefit the club more than it would having him as a long man. Pavano has more value than Wright or Small, so would be a better option to trade. Everyone but the Yankees saw through Jaret Wright's Atlanta numbers last year.

Tifoso

01-05-06, 03:35 PM

Why? Chacon as a starter would benefit the club more than it would having him as a long man. Pavano has more value than Wright or Small, so would be a better option to trade. Everyone but the Yankees saw through Jaret Wright's Atlanta numbers last year.

True, if Pavano hadn't been injured. At this point, we'd be lucky to get a bat boy back in a trade for him. Wright has more value (as of now)

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 03:51 PM

True, if Pavano hadn't been injured. At this point, we'd be lucky to get a bat boy back in a trade for him. Wright has more value (as of now)

Seattle was offering Jeremy Reed for Carl Pavano, not Jaret Wright. Here's why:

Wright - 5-5, 6.08 ERA, 34K, 32BB, 8HR, 13 GS, 13G
Started Against: BAL, BOS(2x), TB(4x), TEX, TOR(3x), SEA, KC

Pavano - 4-6, 4.77 ERA, 56K, 18BB, 17HR, 17GS, 17G
Started Against: BOS(2x), BAL(3x), TOR(2x), LAA, OAK, SEA(2x), NYM, KC, MIL, STL, CHC, TB

Pavano has way more value than Wright. Wright's best performances came against the Devil Rays, and Pavano's came against Seattle, Mets, and St. Louis. Pavano definitely has more value than Jaret Wright. Wright couldn't even seal a one game division lead over Boston with absolutely no pressure on him on the last day of the season.

Tifoso

01-05-06, 03:54 PM

Seattle was offering Jeremy Reed for Carl Pavano, not Jaret Wright. Here's why:

Wright - 5-5, 6.08 ERA, 34K, 32BB, 8HR, 13 GS, 13G
Started Against: BAL, BOS(2x), TB(4x), TEX, TOR(3x), SEA, KC

Pavano - 4-6, 4.77 ERA, 56K, 18BB, 17HR, 17GS, 17G
Started Against: BOS(2x), BAL(3x), TOR(2x), LAA, OAK, SEA(2x), NYM, KC, MIL, STL, CHC, TB

Pavano has way more value than Wright. Wright's best performances came against the Devil Rays, and Pavano's came against Seattle, Mets, and St. Louis. Pavano definitely has more value than Jaret Wright. Wright couldn't even seal a one game division lead over Boston with absolutely no pressure on him on the last day of the season.

Which is why we should keep Carl :D

Seriously, thanks for the correction. :)

ryanthe13th

01-05-06, 05:09 PM

I hope that Pavano stays in NY and has a good rebound year. Clemens coming here is really out there IMO, but it's a possibility since we're "interested".

SoCal Pinstriper

01-17-06, 08:58 AM

Roger Clemens is going nowhere fast.

Allan Hendricks, who represents the 43-year-old future Hall of Famer, said Monday that his client probably won't even ponder the idea of playing in 2006 until early February.

Rangers owner Tom Hicks and GM Jon Daniels have both made it clear that if Clemens decides to pitch another season, the Rangers want him. Hicks had hoped to give Clemens a recruiting pitch at the Rose Bowl earlier this month, but their paths didn't cross.

Houston, for whom Clemens has pitched the last two years, did not offer salary arbitration in December and he became a free agent. Clemens can't re-sign with the Astros before May 1, but he could sign with another team before that. In addition to the Rangers, Boston and the New York Yankees have let Clemens know they're interested.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/011706dnsporangdate.ce170f6.html

DontHateOnNumber2

01-17-06, 09:07 AM

If the Yanks want him then get him, but not if he wants to get paid some ungodly amount of cash. This means the Yankees won't get him. Right?

Jace

01-17-06, 09:13 AM

If the Yanks want him then get him, but not if he wants to get paid some ungodly amount of cash. This means the Yankees won't get him. Right?

It would only be one year, so if it is under 18-20 mil the Yankees will be in it.

scooterfan

01-17-06, 10:04 AM

The wild card is - does Roger want to wear a Yankees cap in the Hall of Fame?

The only way that happens is if he signs with the Yankees now and pitches two years. Otherwise he'll go in with a Red Sox cap.

I don't know if it's a layup that Roger stays in Texas (Astros or Rangers)

gEO3b4

01-17-06, 10:34 AM

I highly doubt he is seriously considering the Rangers. Considering Dallas is like 6 hours away from Houston he might as well come play in New York or Boston. With that said, I also highly doubt he is going anywhere but Houston, if he in fact does play, which I have a feeling he wont. I think he will pitch his last game as a member of Team USA, like he had originally planned on doing in 2004, but of coarse the U.S. didnt qualify for the olympics the previous winter.

But being a die-hard Clemens fan I would love for him to come back, regardless of who it's with. Though of coarse I would love for him to come back to the Yankees. How amazing would a rotation anchored by Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson be (if johnson is healthy and pitches like he did at the end of last season).

RE: The Yankees cap in the Hall.

Has he backed off of that? I havent heard him mention it once since leaving the Yankees, which makes me think that he may have only said that because he was with the Yankees at the time. I really hope that is not the case.

PoughVirginiaYankee

01-17-06, 10:56 AM

RE: The Yankees cap in the Hall.

Has he backed off of that? I havent heard him mention it once since leaving the Yankees, which makes me think that he may have only said that because he was with the Yankees at the time. I really hope that is not the case.
You probably know this, but at the time of those comments, MLB made it a point that they ultimately decide what cap he wears. I think he's backed off of it, because it's a fight that won't matter until the year of his Hall eligibility. He also couldn't very well say he wanted to be enshrined as a Yankee, while a member of the Astros organization, no matter how much he liked being a Yankee. We'll see how much it matters to him the year he's enshrined, based on how much of a fight he puts into going in wearing the cap of his choice.

BJG

01-17-06, 10:58 AM

It's the HOF that decides which cap the player wears, not MLB. The two actually aren't related in any official manner.

Tifoso

01-17-06, 11:08 AM

I thought that Clemens was grandfathered (ie, he can still choose his cap)

:dunno:

Mr. Mxylsplk

01-17-06, 11:14 AM

I thought that Clemens was grandfathered (ie, he can still choose his cap)

:dunno:
The articles I've seen, most of which are a few years old, were pretty clear that it's the HOF's decision, not Clemens'. They say they take the player's opinion into account, but make the decision themselves. If I were the HOF, it would be a Sox cap all the way, although I suppose two final CY Young award, WS winning years in pinstripes might change that. ;)

scooterfan

01-17-06, 12:23 PM

The articles I've seen, most of which are a few years old, were pretty clear that it's the HOF's decision, not Clemens'. They say they take the player's opinion into account, but make the decision themselves. If I were the HOF, it would be a Sox cap all the way, although I suppose two final CY Young award, WS winning years in pinstripes might change that. ;)

That's exactly what I was getting at...

Right now, Roger would still go in as a Red Sox. If he stayed in Houston for two more years, maybe he could argue for an Astros cap. Two more years in NY? Maybe he gets that Yankee cap after all

MattUNC2003

01-17-06, 01:22 PM

That's exactly what I was getting at...

Right now, Roger would still go in as a Red Sox. If he stayed in Houston for two more years, maybe he could argue for an Astros cap. Two more years in NY? Maybe he gets that Yankee cap after all

They can go in with no team on their hat as well. Which, in Roger's case, I think might end up happening.

scooterfan

01-17-06, 03:02 PM

PoughVirginiaYankee

01-17-06, 03:07 PM

It's the HOF that decides which cap the player wears, not MLB. The two actually aren't related in any official manner.
true story...thanks for the correction :D

Mr. Mxylsplk

01-17-06, 03:33 PM

Doesn't Clemens have a 'personal service' contract with the Astros after he retires?

I wonder if Cashman can get creative and offer him a Yankees personal service contract -- in order to reduce Clemens salary a bit. Add in endorsement $$$, and Roger would be a fool to go anywhere else.
Yes he does. I'm not sure how realistic it is for him to sign a personal services contract with one mlb team that would overlap with one he's already signed with another team. But even if he did, given that he certainly didn't reduce his salary with the Astros even though he had a personal services contract, why do you think he would with the yanks?

surge511

01-17-06, 06:48 PM

He will go in a Yank with 2 more years in the stripes. However, I doubt he goes anywhere but back to the Astros. I don't think he has the drive anymore to be so far away from home for so long. My second guess would be NY - the Sox and Rangers I doubt he would actually consider.

MisterNovember

01-17-06, 11:33 PM

It would only be one year, so if it is under 18-20 mil the Yankees will be in it.

I'm as big a Clemens fan as there is, but I wouldn't want the Yanks to sign him for HALF this amount of money.

While he has looked dominant the last two seasons in Houston, I think that a switch back to the AL will severely hurt him, especially when you consider that he's 43 and has had some fairly recent injury problems.

I love the guy, and I love watching him pitch, but I'd rather just see him put in one more year in Houston rather than seeing him come to the Yanks for an insane salary and wind up tarnishing his legacy with a mediocre season.

Jace

01-18-06, 12:05 AM

I'm as big a Clemens fan as there is, but I wouldn't want the Yanks to sign him for HALF this amount of money.

While he has looked dominant the last two seasons in Houston, I think that a switch back to the AL will severely hurt him, especially when you consider that he's 43 and has had some fairly recent injury problems.

I love the guy, and I love watching him pitch, but I'd rather just see him put in one more year in Houston rather than seeing him come to the Yanks for an insane salary and wind up tarnishing his legacy with a mediocre season.

I don't think he will be mediocre, but I really can't predict that.

His numbers won't be as good as they were in the NL Central. Yet if he has a 3.5-3.7 ish ERA season the 15-16 or so mil it would take to sign him would not be wasted, as you are paying him highly partly for the one year nature of the deal, and equally for the performance and keeping that performance from the Red Sox. Pitching is going to be a commodity in this division and I definitely believe Clemens will perform significantly better than at least one of our 5 starters (thus he will represent a significant upgrade).

Anyway, for a ONE season commitment the Yankees can take on a 15 mil hit without noticing, but you will definitely notice the extra wins.

MisterNovember

01-18-06, 12:10 AM

I don't think he will be mediocre, but I really can't predict that.

His numbers won't be as good as they were in the NL Central. Yet if he has a 3.5-3.7 ish ERA season the 15-16 or so mil it would take to sign him would not be wasted, as you are paying him highly partly for the one year nature of the deal, and equally for the performance and keeping that performance from the Red Sox. Pitching is going to be a commodity in this division and I definitely believe Clemens will perform significantly better than at least one of our 5 starters (thus he will represent a significant upgrade).

Anyway, for a ONE season commitment the Yankees can take on a 15 mil hit without noticing, but you will definitely notice the extra wins.

His last season with the Yanks, Raaaajaaah was 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA. When you consider that he's two years older and has had some nagging injuries, you can't realistically expect Clemens to submit much better than 15 wins and a 4.10 ERA in the AL East. The Yanks could easily get that same production out of Wang, for about 1/10 of the cost.

DJ27

01-18-06, 07:22 AM

gszabo

01-21-06, 10:30 AM

The Yanks could easily get that same production out of Wang, for about 1/10 of the cost.

the rotation is potentially very good. but all of the starters have health risks, or perhaps are one-year wonders.

So, since the Yankees are a revenue machine, i hope they would take the Rocket in a heartbeat, even without any expectations of a Cy Young season, because he's been so durable and consistent.

38Special

01-21-06, 11:04 AM

Clemens isnt a risk?

Jace

01-21-06, 11:11 AM

His last season with the Yanks, Raaaajaaah was 17-9 with a 3.91 ERA. When you consider that he's two years older and has had some nagging injuries, you can't realistically expect Clemens to submit much better than 15 wins and a 4.10 ERA in the AL East. The Yanks could easily get that same production out of Wang, for about 1/10 of the cost.

I doubt the difference between his 3.9 ERA season with us and his 1.8 ERA season in Houston was the difference between the AL East and the NL Central. He just pitched better, and stands a good chance of pitching better than that 3.9 ERA season next year. Even those numbers would be good.

Wang is great, but he's a big injury risk (I know Roger is old but his mechanics are very good and he has pitched 200+ innings for the past 3 seasons and 180+ for the past TEN) and has to develop another pitch anyway, I doubt his BABIP will stay microscopic forever if batters start to see his sinker over and over. If he doesn't have shoulder problems this year I'll be surprised.

38Special

01-21-06, 11:13 AM

And you expect Clemens to be healthy the entire year at 43

ha

Jace

01-21-06, 11:14 AM

And you expect Clemens to be healthy the entire year at 43

ha

His regimens etc are ridiculous and Im going by history (look at that post above, IP stuff). I definitely think he'll pitch more innings then Wang.

Unless he waits till May to rejoin the Astros

ring403

01-21-06, 11:29 AM

So, since the Yankees are a revenue machine, i hope they would take the Rocket in a heartbeat, even without any expectations of a Cy Young season, because he's been so durable and consistent.While it's true that the Yankees are the biggest revenue generating team in the league by a large margin, they also have a payroll at present that eats up most, if not all of those profits. The notion that they have unlimited financial recources to throw at any player they wish just isn't true.
If the Yankees have needs that arise during the season, you can expect them to address them the same way they did last year; by looking for cheap, undervalued players who might be able to help, like Chacon and Small, as well as any players from their own minor league system who might earn a look in 2006.
The chances of Roger Clemens wearing Yankee pinstripes again are slim and none.

Tal Hawkins

01-21-06, 12:38 PM

Considering Dallas is like 6 hours away from Houston he might as well come play in New York or Boston.
Actually, Houston to Dallas is about 3.5 hours by car and about 45 minutes by plane...maybe a little faster if Hicks were to let Roger use his private jet. Personally, if he doesn't end up with the Yankees, I'd like to see Roger pitch for the Rangers...it would definitely generate more interest in the team.

ESPN radio and one of the local sports affiliates here in Dallas have at least 2-3 stories/interviews every day concerning Roger pitching for Texas. Based on the interviews I've heard with Jon Daniels, Texas is desperately trying hard to land this guy.

guidry36

01-21-06, 03:14 PM

Texas and Houston are the only possibilities that make sense for Clemens in 2006. He would be better served waiting until May 1 and signing with the Astros. Taking it easy in April could pay dividends in August and September. The Yankees certainly have rotation questions, but with only 4 starters needed the 1st half of April + Wright and Small in the bullpen, it isn't likely the Yankees would need an additional starter for at least the first few months. Should a pitcher or 2 implode, Henn, DeSalvo (possibly), and Karstens (possibly) would get a shot before another starter is looked for.

Grape Ape

01-21-06, 04:23 PM

While it's true that the Yankees are the biggest revenue generating team in the league by a large margin, they also have a payroll at present that eats up most, if not all of those profits. The notion that they have unlimited financial recources to throw at any player they wish just isn't true.
If the Yankees have needs that arise during the season, you can expect them to address them the same way they did last year; by looking for cheap, undervalued players who might be able to help, like Chacon and Small, as well as any players from their own minor league system who might earn a look in 2006.
The chances of Roger Clemens wearing Yankee pinstripes again are slim and none.

Ring,

I agree that the chances are slim, but your post makes appear that the Yanks would pass on an opportunity to acquire Clemens (if he were available) due to financial prudence. Is that what you meat, or were you just referring to the notion that Roger wouldn't leave Texas now? If so, I just can't see George saying no to this guy if he expressed interest in coming back. No matter what the effect on margins.

MassNYYfan

01-21-06, 07:17 PM

Clemens is playing in the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic Pro-Am this week and they keep saying how Mike Eruzione keeps trying to "recruit" Clemens to sign with Boston. :looking:

ring403

01-21-06, 09:31 PM

Ring,

I agree that the chances are slim, but your post makes appear that the Yanks would pass on an opportunity to acquire Clemens (if he were available) due to financial prudence. Is that what you meat, or were you just referring to the notion that Roger wouldn't leave Texas now? If so, I just can't see George saying no to this guy if he expressed interest in coming back. No matter what the effect on margins.I meant a little bit of both actually. I honestly believe that there is a pretty firm budget in place this season. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say that I believe the Yankees when they claim they ended 2005 with a net loss of up to $85 million, but at the very least they've come perilously close to the financial tipping point between profit and loss. Cashman has managed to cut the payroll for next season, and gained a bit of flexibility to fill needs that may arise during the season, but I don't think the organization is in a good position to offer a guy like Clemens $10 or $15 million for 2006. Perhaps if there was a catastrophic injury to RJ or Mussina, they might see if he'd accept some sort of deferred payment deal to come back, but I can't see them taking on that much salary for one player otherwise.
Even if Clemens were to decide to play next season, I don't think he'd consider leaving his beloved State of Texas, and a sweetheart deal like the one he had last season, unless there was an obscene amount of cash involved, which almost certainly takes the Yankees out of the picture.

SoCal Pinstriper

01-24-06, 07:47 AM

The Rangers are starting their push for Clemens.

Rangers owner Tom Hicks is the club's chief sales representative when it comes to Roger Clemens.

And he's taking the sales pitch to the next level in his attempt to get the 43-year-old future Hall of Famer to buy into leading the Rangers' revamped starting rotation this year.

Hicks said he drafted a letter on behalf of the Rangers to Clemens' agent, Allan Hendricks, describing why Clemens should come to Arlington. Hicks said he planned to send the letter Monday.

Hicks wouldn't discuss specifics, but said the letter included some financial parameters. He said he also provided information about how the Rangers see their team with Clemens and lifestyle issues in regards to Clemens' desire to spend as much time with his family as possible. Hicks said that might include allowing Clemens to travel some on his own, to ease any concerns he might have about time away from his family. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/012406dnspoclemens.305dc106.html

The Astros are filing an insurance clain on Bagwell which will clear budget if they decide that they still want Roger.

Team general manager Tim Purpura acknowledged Monday that the organization will file an insurance claim to recoup $15.6 million of the $17 million the veteran first baseman is set to earn for the 2006 season.

The claim means the Astros believe Bagwell is physically unable to perform and can no longer play for the team. Bagwell still believes he can play in 2006.

Citing the right shoulder problems that have plagued Bagwell since 2001 and finally forced him to have what he hoped would be career-saving surgery in June, Purpura said the Astros plan to file the insurance claim by a Jan. 31 deadline set on the policy.

The decision came after Astros doctors reviewed the results of a recent test on Bagwell's chronically arthritic shoulder. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3607494.html

shotgun_sam

01-24-06, 11:05 AM

Oh please. Roger was the one throwing the pitches right down the middle.

Not that the all-star game even matters, (which..the point of him getting 'rocked' matters less), but alot of players on the NL team hinted that yes, Piazza was tipping them off, just to make Rocket look bad.

No link on that, take it as you will. meh.

(i haven't posted here in a long time!)

SoCal Pinstriper

01-31-06, 09:28 AM

Although Clemens crashed the first day of the Nolan Ryan Elite Camp on Monday afternoon by taking the mound and pitching to some minor leaguers, he said he remains undecided on whether he'll return for a 23rd season in the majors.

Clemens, who was contacted by the Astros last week about coming to the camp, threw batting practice to a handful of hitters, including his son, Koby. Koby Clemens is among the 27 Astros prospects taking part in the one-week camp.

Following the 20-minute workout, Clemens said he's still not sure if he wants to pitch again.

"One week I get up and feel like I can do it again, and the next week I don't want to get out here in the outfield and start running those poles and doing those things," Clemens said. "If last year's World Series was it for me, I'm more than happy. We didn't reach our ultimate goal, but it was a lot of fun.

"I have a lot to think about on that. Everywhere I go — I was just at a few events — and (Derek Jeter) and (Jorge) Posada are talking to me all the time about (coming to) the Yankees. Every time I come here, everybody talks about coming back to Houston, and I appreciate it. It gives me the opportunity to go out the way I want to go out."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3624192.html

Ghost of Dan Pasqua

01-31-06, 11:02 AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3624192.html

But I thought Jeter said that he doesn't do recruiting calls for the Yankees, and coming to them speaks for itself.

SoCal Pinstriper

01-31-06, 11:09 AM

But I thought Jeter said that he doesn't do recruiting calls for the Yankees, and coming to them speaks for itself.This doesn't sound like a "recruiting call" per se. It sounds as though they saw eachother at a charity event of some sort (I know that clemens has been out making those rounds (I saw him at the Bob Hope Golf Tourney in Palm Springs). It would only be natural that ex-teammates would chat at one of those functions.

BamBam

02-01-06, 06:14 PM

Could Clemens and Pettitte be planning an escape to New York?

There's this:

Only Roger Clemens knows if he'll return for a 23rd big league season. But Andy Pettitte said he would be surprised if his close friend and Astros teammate wasn't back on the mound.
Whether that would be for the Astros or Yankees, Pettitte didn't say.

"That dude throws year round. He's an animal," said Pettitte, in town yesterday for the 26th annual Thurman Munson awards dinner at the Marriott Marquis in Times Square. "When Roger's ready to talk about (his future), he'll talk about that. But I know one thing - he's trying to get himself ready to play in a world cup game."

And beyond that? "Knowing him," said Pettitte, "I'd be surprised if he didn't (come back)."

Clemens told the Houston Chronicle yesterday that his former Yankee teammates Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada are recruiting him to reclaim his pinstripes. They "are talking to me all the time about (coming to) the Yankees," Clemens told the paper.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/387484p-328827c.html

And then Andy "I left the Yankees because they didn't give me a contract extension" Pettitte suddenly not interested in extension offers from his hometown Astros:

Pettitte, 33, also said Tuesday he is not interested in exploring a contract extension with the Astros at this point. He wishes instead to pitch through 2006 season and then evaluate the situation. The left-hander is entering the final year of a three-year contract he signed in December of 2003.

"I don't know what I'm going to do," Pettitte said. "When the Astros talk about an extension, I can't commit to that right now. I'm going to play this year out, evaluate how my body feels and how I feel mentally.

"I've accomplished more than I ever could have imagined, and to get to the World Series with the Astros this year, I don't think anybody would have dreamed that we could do it as quickly as we were able to do it. There's not a whole lot of motivation to keep me going other than to try to get a championship with the Astros."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060131&content_id=1304534&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Considering how this Texas Twosome plots, why is this scenario not inconceivable: Clemens signs with NY. After the Astros inevitably get off to a horrible start and the Yankees inevitably need another starter, the Yanks trade for Pettitte (due to Houston wanting to dump his $17 million salary on someone else/he's in the last year of a contract and Clemens pushing behind the scenes to get his buddy back with him).

Yankeeah

02-01-06, 06:24 PM

Considering how this Texas Twosome plots, why is this scenario not inconceivable: Clemens signs with NY. After the Astros inevitably get off to a horrible start and the Yankees inevitably need another starter, the Yanks trade for Pettitte (due to Houston wanting to dump his $17 million salary on someone else/he's in the last year of a contract and Clemens pushing behind the scenes to get his buddy back with him).

We have 7 starters now, I could see signing Clemens, but certainly not trading for Pettite, reguardless of what we do with Pettite.

Tifoso

02-01-06, 06:25 PM

Considering how this Texas Twosome plots, why is this scenario not inconceivable: Clemens signs with NY. After the Astros inevitably get off to a horrible start and the Yankees inevitably need another starter, the Yanks trade for Pettitte (due to Houston wanting to dump his $17 million salary on someone else/he's in the last year of a contract and Clemens pushing behind the scenes to get his buddy back with him).

It is inconceivable, so I don't get your point.....;)

Jasbro

02-02-06, 08:30 PM

And then Andy "I left the Yankees because they didn't give me a contract extension" Pettitte suddenly not interested in extension offers from his hometown Astros...

Pettite will either accept a one- or two-year extension from the Astros or he will retire.

He has always said that he had no desire to play into his late 30s. He is going to pitch two or three more years -- at most -- and then ride off into the Texas sunset. I wouldn't be surprised if he hangs them up after the 2006 season.

ryanthe13th

02-02-06, 09:15 PM

I would do a Pavano package for Pettite, but Houston is too smart to fall for that one. Clemens is not signing with the Yankees. If he does, I'll have to throw my hands in the air and yell 'WHY'.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-07-06, 09:57 AM

Making the business case for Clemens on the Rangers.

In 2004, Clemens' first season with the Astros, the club increased attendance by 630,000.

Doing the same thing in Arlington this year would generate more than $18 million in extra ticket, concession, merchandise and parking revenue for the Rangers, according to an analysis by The Dallas Morning News. As a fan magnet, other than a new stadium, nothing beats winning, sports business experts say.
And there are no guarantees that a star player will bring out more fans. Clemens had virtually no impact on Toronto attendance when he went there from Boston in 1997. The same was true of Alex Rodriguez when he came to Texas in 2001.

In fact, by A-Rod's final year in a Rangers uniform, 2003, attendance plummeted to 700,000 less than the season before he came. Neither Clemens' Blue Jays nor Rodriguez's Rangers came close to the playoffs.
With or without Clemens, says Rangers president Jeff Cogen, the key to maximizing team revenue is playing meaningful games in September.

Cogen said 3 million is a "reasonable" attendance goal for the Rangers this year, if the club can stay in the race to the end. That would be an increase of 475,000 from last season, translating into about $14 million in extra revenue, The News estimates. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/020706dnspoclemensworth.c95588.html

ieddyi

02-07-06, 10:51 AM

Making the business case for Clemens on the Rangers.
. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/020706dnspoclemensworth.c95588.html

2004 attendance increased for the Stros, but Clemens wasn't the factor- being in the race was. Attendance on the dates that Rajah pitched wasn't noticeably better than the other days.
There's no way to justify his salary in terms of raising revenues

SoCal Pinstriper

02-07-06, 12:11 PM

2004 attendance increased for the Stros, but Clemens wasn't the factor- being in the race was. Attendance on the dates that Rajah pitched wasn't noticeably better than the other days.
There's no way to justify his salary in terms of raising revenuesThat point is made very clearly in the article, which contends that Clemens biggest benefit to the Rangers would be in making them competitive, and that competitive teams always generate the most revenue. The article makes the distinction between Clemens contribution to the Stros' bottom line versus Ryan's. Clemens contributed more because ryan's teams never won.

ieddyi

02-07-06, 12:27 PM

That point is made very clearly in the article, which contends that Clemens biggest benefit to the Rangers would be in making them competitive, and that competitive teams always generate the most revenue. The article makes the distinction between Clemens contribution to the Stros' bottom line versus Ryan's. Clemens contributed more because ryan's teams never won.

Yep, I wasn't challenging your point, just adding a side point

Tifoso

02-07-06, 01:01 PM

OK, rumor still pretty strong that we get Roger and/or Andy...so

who, of the present SP goes?

RJ--lock
MM--lock
Chacon--relief?
Wang--"lock"
Pavano--dunno
Small--BP

so who goes, to who, for who? :D

38Special

02-07-06, 01:15 PM

Tifoso

02-07-06, 01:30 PM

NYDCYankee

02-08-06, 02:37 AM

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/61551.htm

Joe still believe in Roger.

StatenIslandYankee

02-08-06, 03:21 AM

If I could get Pettitte and Roger back, I'd look to deal Pavano ASAP and sign Pettitte to an extention.

Pettitte > Pavano.

guidry36

02-08-06, 08:09 AM

The only rumor is that Andy doesnt want a contract extension and other Yankees have kidded with him about coming back to NY.

Clemens and Pettitte are both upgrades over Moose or Pavano, but neither are tradeable. Let's not forget that they're coming from pitching in the NL Central, and how Clemens hobbled off the mound in the World Series.

Let Clemens pitch in the WBC and, if he wants to come back, take a month off and re-join the Astros May 1st. I'm sure his family would enjoy the extra month...... and it would help Clemens later in the year. I'd take Pettitte back in a heartbeat, but he would likely be too expensive in terms of prospects. Pavano had better come through this year...........

27IsNext

02-08-06, 10:55 AM

Roger isn't coming here unless he takes a HUGE paycut.

BillBuckner

02-08-06, 12:29 PM

I'd much rather see Pettitte back. I remember how furious I was at the end of 2003 when Steinbrebber let him sign with Houston, I knew our rotation wouldn't be the same. He provided the constitancy and heart this staff has been lacking the past 2 seasons. However as much as I'd like him back, I just don't think it is possible with the price the Astros would likely demand. If Clemens is a realistic option, I say go for it.

gszabo

02-08-06, 11:45 PM

Roger isn't coming here unless he takes a HUGE paycut.

if there's a bidding war - and especially if Boston's in it - i cannot imagine Steinbrenner sitting it out. especially because this would be a 1-year hit.

DontHateOnNumber2

02-09-06, 08:35 AM

Roger isn't coming here unless he takes a HUGE paycut.

I honestly don't think any level-headed Yankee fan would want him back in New York unless he did take a huge paycut. I'm talking single-digit millions here.

StatenIslandYankee

02-09-06, 10:17 AM

I honestly don't think any level-headed Yankee fan would want him back in New York unless he did take a huge paycut. I'm talking single-digit millions here.
Roger on this team would make us the clear favorite in the AL. Right now I still think we are #2.

ShaneTravis

02-09-06, 10:24 AM

BOB KLAPISCH

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4NzY3OTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

To this, Cashman offered the crowd a tease, if not a small scoop. The Yankees had, indeed, spoken to Clemens' representatives this winter and were now waiting for The Rocket to decide whether he wants to keep playing.

"Obviously, if Roger Clemens decides to play, we'll take a look at him, without question," Cashman said. "What that means, I don't know. Roger was a great Yankee before. He had a tremendous impact on us then. He's got a great place in our history. It doesn't mean history can't continue to be written."

I still think it's a pipe dream that Roger would leave Houston. Later on in the article it states.

Clemens has a 10-year personal services contract in place with the Astros upon his retirement, and considering his family is still Houston-based – and his son Koby is now playing in the Astros' system – it's hard to believe the Yankees could ever compete with such ties.

YankClipper5

02-09-06, 10:30 AM

Clemens has a 10-year personal services contract in place with the Astros upon his retirement, and considering his family is still Houston-based – and his son Koby is now playing in the Astros' system – it's hard to believe the Yankees could ever compete with such ties.
As much as this seems true, I don't think Roger is going to pitch just for the sake of hanging numbers. If he comes back I think it will be to a clear cut World Series contender, which currently the Astros are not.

ShaneTravis

02-09-06, 10:37 AM

I posted this yesterday on the Clemens to Sox thread when Jon Heyman was on Mike Kay.

From the what's it worth department. Jon Heyman was on Mike Kay tonight and the topic was discussed. Both agreed no way in heck does he go to Boston. He might mention it to drive the price up but no way does he go back.

Jon made a valid point: Clemens made a big fuss over which hat he was going to wear into the hall and made it perfectly clear he was not wearing a Boston cap. Threats and the what not ensued. The point being, if he was so adamant about not wearing the "B" on a statue how would he feel about wearing it in real life? Not likely was the consensus.

There are 4 teams bandied about-Sox, Yanks, Astros, and Rangers. Astros would be the favorites. Andy is on the team and his ties to the organization would make it pretty hard for him to leave. Yanks would be second choice, having a chance of a ring and the pay check.

BJG

02-09-06, 11:23 AM

I honestly don't think any level-headed Yankee fan would want him back in New York unless he did take a huge paycut. I'm talking single-digit millions here.

If he is the pitcher that he was in his last year with the Yankees, that's a better pitcher than Carl Pavano. If the Yankees can get that production for a year, it allows them them to pull the trigger on a Pavano deal that dumps the remaining $30.95M on his contract. As such, paying Clemens $15M for 1 year ($7M more than Pavano gets in '06) allows them to reinvest $23.95M in '07 and '08 on someone besides Pavano and break even in the money column while coming out ahead in the performance column...seems like a good deal to me.

Tifoso

02-09-06, 11:31 AM

DontHateOnNumber2

02-09-06, 11:37 AM

If he is the pitcher that he was in his last year with the Yankees, that's a better pitcher than Carl Pavano. If the Yankees can get that production for a year, it allows them them to pull the trigger on a Pavano deal that dumps the remaining $30.95M on his contract. As such, paying Clemens $15M for 1 year ($7M more than Pavano gets in '06) allows them to reinvest $23.95M in '07 and '08 on someone besides Pavano and break even in the money column while coming out ahead in the performance column...seems like a good deal to me.

There's no guarantee in Roger being the same pitcher that he was with the Yankees 3 years ago. I would do the deal just because Pavano hasn't exactly proven himself....at all. If Rocket could still get it done in the AL without breaking down when we need him the most (postseason) then I would agree and also do this type of deal but I'm still not sur eit'd be for $15 mil. Clemens I think would want more.

goin for 27

02-09-06, 12:00 PM

If he is the pitcher that he was in his last year with the Yankees, that's a better pitcher than Carl Pavano. If the Yankees can get that production for a year, it allows them them to pull the trigger on a Pavano deal that dumps the remaining $30.95M on his contract. As such, paying Clemens $15M for 1 year ($7M more than Pavano gets in '06) allows them to reinvest $23.95M in '07 and '08 on someone besides Pavano and break even in the money column while coming out ahead in the performance column...seems like a good deal to me.

One teeny problem - "it allows them them to pull the trigger on a Pavano deal that dumps the remaining $30.95M on his contract."

WHO is taking Pavano without taking money as well?

No one.

BJG

02-09-06, 12:00 PM

There's no guarantee in Roger being the same pitcher that he was with the Yankees 3 years ago. I would do the deal just because Pavano hasn't exactly proven himself....at all. If Rocket could still get it done in the AL without breaking down when we need him the most (postseason) then I would agree and also do this type of deal but I'm still not sur eit'd be for $15 mil. Clemens I think would want more.

I think my point was that the 2002/2003 Clemens wasn't a dominator, but that's still better than what you are likely to get out of Pavano, who is likely to break down long before the postseason and is an historically below average pitcher...in other words, it doesn't take much. And, the potential for a dominating performance still exists within Clemens. Worst case, he's hurt (but the chances are that Pavano would be also). Middle case, he's slightly above average. Best case, he's got an ERA anywhere under 3.5. I think the chances of each of the latter two scenarios are greater with Clemens than Pavano.

As for the money, what I'm trying to get to is that you can't look at it in the vaccum of Clemens. Give him $18M, you've still got 20.95 in the bank to spend in '07 and '08. Give some team $5M to take Pavano, you've still got 15.95...if this is the buffer the team needs to get out of a bigger financial committment that they shouldn't be carrying and replace that with someone who is more likely to be healthy and on the field, then pay for that buffer.

BJG

02-09-06, 12:01 PM

One teeny problem - "it allows them them to pull the trigger on a Pavano deal that dumps the remaining $30.95M on his contract."

WHO is taking Pavano without taking money as well?

No one.

For a crap player? There are apparently such deals on the table. People will be upset that Pavano got traded for nothing, but a dump is a dump. Even if you have to throw in some money, the goal is to get out of the Pavano deal, clear the roster spot, clear some cash, and go into '07 and '08 with a pitcher who is likely to produce more than Pavano (in other words, be healthy).

There are 2 issues here...the cash and the roster flexibility. Get as much money as you can out of the deal, but potentially bigger is the roster flexibility. A big problem the Yankees have is that they are basically forced to go into the season with Pavano in the rotation knowing that he is likley to get hurt. It's very difficult to plan around this. You can't just go and sign Paul Byrd or some other slightly above average innings eater to sit in your bullpen and wait for an injury, because someone is going to pay them to start.

Jace

02-09-06, 12:46 PM

For a crap player? There are apparently such deals on the table. People will be upset that Pavano got traded for nothing, but a dump is a dump. Even if you have to throw in some money, the goal is to get out of the Pavano deal, clear the roster spot, clear some cash, and go into '07 and '08 with a pitcher who is likely to produce more than Pavano (in other words, be healthy).

There are 2 issues here...the cash and the roster flexibility. Get as much money as you can out of the deal, but potentially bigger is the roster flexibility. A big problem the Yankees have is that they are basically forced to go into the season with Pavano in the rotation knowing that he is likley to get hurt. It's very difficult to plan around this. You can't just go and sign Paul Byrd or some other slightly above average innings eater to sit in your bullpen and wait for an injury, because someone is going to pay them to start.

I'm pretty sure this has never happened before, but I wonder if Bud would finally step in and nix a trade that was a complete salary dump with unequal talent moving in both directions. Say we traded Pavano for a backup and the other team agreed to pay his full salary. I am pretty sure these are the types of trades Bud wanted to stop (although this time the salary dump would be moving in the other direction, from the big salary team to the low one). I really doubt he would step in, I wonder if its even a possibility.

gold23

02-09-06, 01:32 PM

YankClipper5

02-09-06, 02:19 PM

I think my point was that the 2002/2003 Clemens wasn't a dominator, but that's still better than what you are likely to get out of Pavano, who is likely to break down long before the postseason and is an historically below average pitcher...in other words, it doesn't take much. And, the potential for a dominating performance still exists within Clemens. Worst case, he's hurt (but the chances are that Pavano would be also). Middle case, he's slightly above average. Best case, he's got an ERA anywhere under 3.5. I think the chances of each of the latter two scenarios are greater with Clemens than Pavano.

As for the money, what I'm trying to get to is that you can't look at it in the vaccum of Clemens. Give him $18M, you've still got 20.95 in the bank to spend in '07 and '08. Give some team $5M to take Pavano, you've still got 15.95...if this is the buffer the team needs to get out of a bigger financial committment that they shouldn't be carrying and replace that with someone who is more likely to be healthy and on the field, then pay for that buffer.

I like your analysis. It is a good point because even in the event we can't find a big name FA pitcher in the coming 2 years, the money saved on Pavano can easily be used up signing and average inning eating 4.00 ERA pitcher and still have plenty of cash left over. I suppose I would be for this move. Clemens is still a gamer and will tough it out when hurting. Pavano is yet to prove he can be the guyto step it up and throw a gem through pain. If the situation to deal Pavano was right, I am all for this.

BJG

02-09-06, 04:10 PM

I'm pretty sure this has never happened before, but I wonder if Bud would finally step in and nix a trade that was a complete salary dump with unequal talent moving in both directions. Say we traded Pavano for a backup and the other team agreed to pay his full salary. I am pretty sure these are the types of trades Bud wanted to stop (although this time the salary dump would be moving in the other direction, from the big salary team to the low one). I really doubt he would step in, I wonder if its even a possibility.

What the league has always tried to stop are deals in which one team buys another player...in other words where Team A trades a player who makes $10M to Team B for a player who makes $500K and more than $1M in Team B's cash. In other words, Team B isn't sending money to cover salary for the player they are trading, they are sending money so that Team A ends up with more cash than they have to pay the player they are getting...does that make sense? Think of the Yankee/Reds deal a few years ago...the Yankees picked up Boone and his salary and they tried to do it for minor leaguers and a lot of cash. In all honesty, if there's no money trading hands or if it's the Yankees sending money that is less than what is owed Pavano, Bud is going to approve it.

iodon

02-10-06, 08:39 AM

Clemens is still a gamer and will tough it out when hurting.

Um, is everyone forgetting last years World Series? I still hate Wells for leaving the 2003 Series and Clemens did the exact same thing.

YankeePride1967

02-10-06, 08:52 AM

Um, is everyone forgetting last years World Series? I still hate Wells for leaving the 2003 Series and Clemens did the exact same thing.

I understand what you are saying, but Clemens didn't joke about his work out habit and physique like Wells did the day before game 5 (and his habits and physique likely led to the condition). In other words, I think Wells injury was more avoidable (and the fact he knew he was hurt and still joked pissed me off) than Clemens. Clemens is 43 after all.

noneckwilliams

02-10-06, 08:58 AM

Um, is everyone forgetting last years World Series? I still hate Wells for leaving the 2003 Series and Clemens did the exact same thing.

My reference point for Clemens' future performance with either Boston or NYY is the 2003 season. What he's done for Hou the last 2 seasons is irrelevant to me. The guy was hardly a dominator in 2003 and I would expect his 2006 performance in the AL to be below what he achieved in 2003.

If either the NYY or the RS sign Clem they will end up paying $1,000,000+ per win.

Spiker101

02-10-06, 09:39 AM

If either the NYY or the RS sign Clem they will end up paying $1,000,000+ per win.

I absolutely agree. It might even be closer to $2 mill, plus.

BJG

02-10-06, 09:47 AM

My reference point for Clemens' future performance with either Boston or NYY is the 2003 season. What he's done for Hou the last 2 seasons is irrelevant to me. The guy was hardly a dominator in 2003 and I would expect his 2006 performance in the AL to be below what he achieved in 2003.

If either the NYY or the RS sign Clem they will end up paying $1,000,000+ per win.

Which is absolutely fine within the context discussed above.

noneckwilliams

02-10-06, 10:37 AM

Which is absolutely fine within the context discussed above.

Would Clemens be effective with the Yankees? Probably yes. But doesn't it reach the point where it gets a little embarrasing paying a guy $16-20 mil to win 14 games?

The Yankees have enuf depth in their rotation and surely they won't have quite the injury problems they had last year to their starters.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-10-06, 10:41 AM

The Yankees have enuf depth in their rotation and surely they won't have quite the injury problems they had last year to their starters.I do not share your confidence in the durability of our starters.

BJG

02-10-06, 11:02 AM

Would Clemens be effective with the Yankees? Probably yes. But doesn't it reach the point where it gets a little embarrasing paying a guy $16-20 mil to win 14 games?

The Yankees have enuf depth in their rotation and surely they won't have quite the injury problems they had last year to their starters.

I fully expect Pavano and Wright to be injured again. I fully expect Mussina and Johnson to have nagging issues at the least. I fully expect Wang to have some issues.

It's not embarrassing to pay Clemens what is required to address these problems and to get out from under the money still owed Pavano. There aren't other pitchers like Clemens you are likley to get for one year, and given the financial scenario I layed out above, I'm more than happy to spend money on Clemens to save money on Pavano and to help ensure that a roster spot is not taken by a replacment level player (in other words, what may well happen when Pavano is hurt once again, just as he has been every year since 1997 save 1. In that context, the 2002/2003 Clemens is fine, because barring injury, that likely seems a worst case scenario...there is upside there. Those same injury concerns exist for Pavano (only more so), but it also seems to me that the upside is less than with Clemens.

27IsNext

02-10-06, 11:30 AM

Trading Pavano would free up $10 million a season. Clemens would likely cost $20+ million. The Yankees' goal this offseason was to reduce payroll. As currently constructed, we stand at about $186 million.

Clemens isn't coming unless he takes on a contract closer to what we were giving Pavano for a year.

Tifoso

02-10-06, 11:36 AM

I could care less about the money, TBH...

I will agree that one of those two (Pavano and Wright--if he's even still with us) are a cinch to be injured. OK, we sign Clemens...

So the rotation becomes

RJ
RC
MM
Wang
Pavano

or

RJ
RC
MM
Wang
Chacon (if Pavano dealt)

Now, if we deal Wright and keep Pavano, what becomes of Chacon?

27IsNext

02-10-06, 11:37 AM

Chacon will likely be the sixth starter/long reliever in your scenario. Trading Wright wouldn't open up the money to sign Clemens, however.

Tifoso

02-10-06, 11:42 AM

So how do you get him? (I don't mean that to sound in your face, OK?)

Also, do we need 3 (Small, Chacon, Wright) 6th starters?

BJG

02-10-06, 12:07 PM

Now, if we deal Wright and keep Pavano, what becomes of Chacon?

The goal here is to clear Pavano off the roster. Wright is gone at the end of the year anyway, soI don't think you accomplish nearly as much roster flexibility in that deal.

Tifoso

02-10-06, 12:08 PM

Ahhhh, OK. Thanks. :)

StatenIslandYankee

02-10-06, 02:36 PM

Please Roger pitch for us again :(

27IsNext

02-10-06, 04:28 PM

Please Roger pitch for us again :(

For $15 million or less, sure.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 03:57 PM

Roger Clemens told Sports Illustrated's Tom Verducci that he will not pitch an entire major league season this year, saying, "If I do pitch it will be May, June or July. That's what's likely."
If Clemens does decide to pitch rather than retire, the Rangers, Astros, Red Sox and Yankees are all under consideration. Clemens told SI.com that he has met with two teams and that all teams that have contacted him are aware he does not plan to pitch a full season. http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/13905028.htm

jnewmark

02-18-06, 04:56 PM

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/13905028.htm

Wow, talk about having your cake and eating it too. Still, it may leave him with something in the tank come October.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 05:08 PM

Wow, talk about having your cake and eating it too. Still, it may leave him with something in the tank come October.Frankly, with theyears that he's put up in Houston, I think he's earned the right.

It also gives the team that signs him the ability to evaluate their situation before committing.

I cannot see why the Yankees wouldn't want to roll the dice on Roger for the second half unless our rotation is so broken down with injury by then that we have absolutely no shot (a possibility IMO, but not likely).

MisterNovember

02-18-06, 05:10 PM

For $15 million or less, sure.

If it's a one year deal, I don't really think the money is an issue. I'm sure the Yankees could afford to pay him $30m for the season if it really came down to it. As long as a long term contract isn't offered (and it won't be), I don't think we should really get hung up on how much he's being paid.

YankeePride1967

02-18-06, 05:11 PM

Frankly, with theyears that he's put up in Houston, I think he's earned the right.

It also gives the team that signs him the ability to evaluate their situation before committing.

I cannot see why the Yankees wouldn't want to roll the dice on Roger for the second half unless our rotation is so broken down with injury by then that we have absolutely no shot (a possibility IMO, but not likely).

Roger has more than earned the right to decide what he will do. But think of this. Come June or so and you are a team in contention and could use another arm. Would you rather throw the Rocket $10 million or give up prospects for a Josh Fogg type pitcher? It's easy on February 18 to say "hell no" but we don't know what our situation is. If RJ is out for two months, Mussina is out I guarantee you we'd be interested.

Tifoso

02-18-06, 05:11 PM

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 05:16 PM

Roger has more than earned the right to decide what he will do. But think of this. Come June or so and you are a team in contention and could use another arm. Would you rather throw the Rocket $10 million or give up prospects for a Josh Fogg type pitcher? It's easy on February 18 to say "hell no" but we don't know what our situation is. If RJ is out for two months, Mussina is out I guarantee you we'd be interested.Obviously the situation could dictate a different answer, but, on it's face, the mental lift that Clemens would bring, coupled with the fact that we have more cash than prospects together mean that my early lear would be in Clemens' direction.

Frankly, the fact that he isn't going to pitch a full season under any circumstances makes him a more desirable commodity to the Yankees, IMO, rather than less.

jnewmark

02-18-06, 05:16 PM

Frankly, with theyears that he's put up in Houston, I think he's earned the right.

It also gives the team that signs him the ability to evaluate their situation before committing.

I cannot see why the Yankees wouldn't want to roll the dice on Roger for the second half unless our rotation is so broken down with injury by then that we have absolutely no shot (a possibility IMO, but not likely).

I imagine the Yankees' pitching staff will have problems, but I can't see the team having " no shot " just based on that awesome lineup . I don't know that I would roll the dice on Roger. His most impressive numbers the last two years were in the National league, and he did have that no traveling perk when he was'nt scheduled to pitch. Still, an incredible two year stretch for a 40 something pitcher. Bottom line, I just think that coming back to the AL will be his downfall from greatness to mediocre. Hell, I'm really on the fence about this.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 05:22 PM

Or the then current Yankees staff is so good, that we don't need him ;)We can always hope.

I imagine the Yankees' pitching staff will have problems, but I can't see the team having " no shot " just based on that awesome lineup . I don't know that I would roll the dice on Roger. His most impressive numbers the last two years were in the National league, and he did have that no traveling perk when he was'nt scheduled to pitch. Still, an incredible two year stretch for a 40 something pitcher. Bottom line, I just think that coming back to the AL will be his downfall from greatness to mediocre. Hell, I'm really on the fence about this.I really don't see us out of it either, but I am concerned about pitching health.

I do not expect to see NL numbers out of Clemens in the ALEast, but I think that he'll be a better than average pitcher who only costs money while every other deadline option will cost prospects.

jnewmark

02-18-06, 05:29 PM

We can always hope.
I really don't see us out of it either, but I am concerned about pitching health.

I do not expect to see NL numbers out of Clemens in the ALEast, but I think that he'll be a better than average pitcher who only costs money while every other deadline option will cost prospects.

It will be interesting to see how he does in the WBC. And if you are talking about the July 31 deadline, I think Roger will have made up his mind before then. Even he can't start pitching that late in the season with any effectiveness, although I could be wrong.

27IsNext

02-18-06, 05:37 PM

If it's a one year deal, I don't really think the money is an issue. I'm sure the Yankees could afford to pay him $30m for the season if it really came down to it. As long as a long term contract isn't offered (and it won't be), I don't think we should really get hung up on how much he's being paid.

Thing is, we were apparantly dangeously close to losing money because of how bloated our payroll was last year. (About $205 million I think.) This is why we didn't pursue Beltran among other things. We currently sit at about $186 (I think). Even if we were to trade a player like Pavano, we'd sit at $206 million for Clemens. It's not going to happen unless Roger takes a paycut.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 05:52 PM

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/baseball/13905028.htm

Thing is, we were apparantly dangeously close to losing money because of how bloated our payroll was last year. (About $205 million I think.) This is why we didn't pursue Beltran among other things. We currently sit at about $186 (I think). Even if we were to trade a player like Pavano, we'd sit at $206 million for Clemens. It's not going to happen unless Roger takes a paycut.He's on record as saying that he's not comming back for a full season. He throws out june or July as a start date. his salary will likely be prorated base on the % of the season he'll pitch.

Jersey Yankee

02-18-06, 06:01 PM

Please Roger pitch for us again :(
If he doesn't refuse to travel w/the team, I'm fine. If it's around $10-14m I'm fine.

SoCal Pinstriper

02-18-06, 06:45 PM

If he doesn't refuse to travel w/the team, I'm fine. If it's around $10-14m I'm fine.I can't picture him getting more for a June or July comeback.

Just curious, why is it important to you that he travels with the team on trips where he is not scheduled to pitch? The program that he was on seemed to work pretty well for the Astros.

27IsNext

02-18-06, 08:28 PM

CalYankeeFan

02-18-06, 11:33 PM

He's on record as saying that he's not comming back for a full season. He throws out june or July as a start date. his salary will likely be prorated base on the % of the season he'll pitch.

If that's the case he should still be healthy come October...but I still don't want him....that's just me:D

Personally, I'm tired of his act...just freakin retire or declare yourself free...this is an ego game...

TheScooter

02-26-06, 07:18 PM

Roger Clemens will take to the mound Monday at Houston's spring training camp, facing minor league batters even though he's not part of the Astros.

The 43-year-old Clemens wants to pitch in the World Baseball Classic, then decide whether to retire or play a 23rd season, said Koby Clemens, his oldest son and a third baseman in the Astros' farm system.

Koby Clemens said his father was due to arrive in Florida on Sunday night and planned to pitch to minor leaguers in a simulated game Monday morning.

Clemens, a free agent, wasn't offered salary arbitration by the Astros and cannot re-sign with them until May 1. He could join another team before that, and Texas, Boston and the New York Yankees are reportedly interested

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v764902-26-06-1925EST&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.baseball.mlb.news/other&sports=baseball&team=other&league=mlb

StatenIslandYankee

03-03-06, 06:31 AM

yankeebot

03-03-06, 06:45 AM

BillBuckner

03-03-06, 07:12 AM

Jace

03-03-06, 09:48 AM

Peter Gammons this morning on Mike and Mike says "either Boston or Texas" is where Roger will end up because the Astros might be 14 games out in June and the Yankees won't let him go back (to his kids) when he's not pitching.

Wait Peter Gammons has good but completetly unconfirmable news for the Red Sox? unbelievable

In any case, I guess Boston will let Roger skip a few starts whenever so he can go watch Koby tear up Class A? That will go over amazing with the Boston media

nyg02005

03-03-06, 09:59 AM

the problem with gammon statement is that how will clemens know before May 1 that the astros will be 14 games behind in june.

effdamets

03-03-06, 10:00 AM

Jace

03-03-06, 10:09 AM

I'd welcome Roger back with open arms! I'm thinking that Goerge figures signing Roger will put a lot of fannies into those seats. It is a way for him to maintain the 4 million fan level. And anyway, if he started in June, maybe his legs don't give out in October.

If this team is at least in a race till the end (or is a playoff team), George will get his 4 million fans again with or without Roger. Its not like baseball interest is waning or anything

effdamets

03-03-06, 10:19 AM

If this team is at least in a race till the end (or is a playoff team), George will get his 4 million fans again with or without Roger. Its not like baseball interest is waning or anythingMy gut tells me they won't get to 4 million this year... Unless they change the schedule to play the Red Sox and Mets 30 or 40 times... There is just not enough interest in seeing bad teams like the Orioles for the price they are charging (ticket prices went up again this season). I think the prices are going to effect them more this year than years past. And not only because of the prices, but in conjunction with too many bad teams...

DJ27

03-03-06, 10:40 AM

Phew. Well I'm glad this whole thing is finally solved.

My thoughts exactly. The Great Gammons speaks! :barf: :barf: :barf:

BillBuckner

03-03-06, 10:45 AM

the problem with gammon statement is that how will clemens know before May 1 that the astros will be 14 games behind in june.
Really? My problem is that it was said by Gammons.

Jace

03-03-06, 11:14 AM

My gut tells me they won't get to 4 million this year... Unless they change the schedule to play the Red Sox and Mets 30 or 40 times... There is just not enough interest in seeing bad teams like the Orioles for the price they are charging (ticket prices went up again this season). I think the prices are going to effect them more this year than years past. And not only because of the prices, but in conjunction with too many bad teams...

I disagree. The bad teams were here last year. The ticket prices aren't different enough to stop people (this city has a ton people, many of whom are well off or better, and the tickets are nothing compared to their rent). Baseball interest keeps rising, stars keep getting signed.

Basically, I haven't seen a single real sign that fan interest will fall in any way, and I don't have your gut.

effdamets

03-03-06, 11:30 AM

I disagree. The bad teams were here last year. The ticket prices aren't different enough to stop people (this city has a ton people, many of whom are well off or better, and the tickets are nothing compared to their rent). Baseball interest keeps rising, stars keep getting signed.

Basically, I haven't seen a single real sign that fan interest will fall in any way, and I don't have your gut.I know my tickets went up enough to deter the 'regular' fan from going to games. And to sit close, it's like a hundred bucks a seat now...

But as I think of it, the Yankees have close to 40 thousand season ticket subscribers (ovbiously not all of them are full season subscriptions). I'll bet they only have to draw 1.2 or 1.3 million walk ups to get to that magical 4 million...

I don't see it happening. I think they will fall just short this year. To like 3.8 million.

27IsNext

03-03-06, 11:57 AM

In other words, he'll be a Yankee for sure.

effdamets

03-03-06, 12:00 PM

In other words, he'll be a Yankee for sure.
Based on Steve Phillips' comments? Or Peter Gammons'?

Sam18

03-03-06, 12:16 PM

Based on Steve Phillips' comments? Or Peter Gammons'?

If you combine both of their comments then Roger's already a Yankee.

effdamets

03-03-06, 12:22 PM

If you combine both of their comments then Roger's already a Yankee.
It's amazing how much those two despise the Yankees....

Mr. Mxylsplk

03-03-06, 12:32 PM

the problem with gammon statement is that how will clemens know before May 1 that the astros will be 14 games behind in june.
Don't we all pretty much know that already?

Sam18

03-03-06, 12:36 PM

It's amazing how much those two despise the Yankees....

I don't think Gammons hates the Yankees. He's just a redsox fanboy. Phillips on the other hand is a major league tool.

effdamets

03-03-06, 12:39 PM

I don't think Gammons hates the Yankees. He's just a redsox fanboy. Phillips on the other hand is a major league tool.
I guess (with Gammons)... Right on with Phillips....

27IsNext

03-03-06, 01:13 PM

Based on Steve Phillips' comments? Or Peter Gammons'?

Gammons. I'm still waiting on Carl Pavano to choose the Red Sox.

Sam18

03-03-06, 01:19 PM

Gammons. I'm still waiting on Carl Pavano to choose the Red Sox.

:lol:

Jax44

03-04-06, 08:47 AM

I know my tickets went up enough to deter the 'regular' fan from going to games. And to sit close, it's like a hundred bucks a seat now...

But as I think of it, the Yankees have close to 40 thousand season ticket subscribers (ovbiously not all of them are full season subscriptions). I'll bet they only have to draw 1.2 or 1.3 million walk ups to get to that magical 4 million...

I don't see it happening. I think they will fall just short this year. To like 3.8 million.

I thought they said on YES that they are 250,000 ahead of last year already.

38Special

03-04-06, 08:49 AM

Don't we all pretty much know that already?
Are you trying to say that the Astros powerhouse offense wont keep them in the race?

;)

ShaneTravis

03-08-06, 09:08 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-03-07-clemens_x.htm

Clemens expects to hang them up, for now.

Clemens plans to retire upon the conclusion of the World Baseball Classic, ending a brilliant 22-year pitching career. But there is one glitch. He is reserving the right to change his mind this summer.

"Right now, I don't see myself playing," Clemens told USA TODAY on Monday. "I'm not going to start the season with anyone. I made my mind up. And when I do shut it down, I'll be walking away with a smile on my face. There will be no regrets, because I feel like I've done it the right way."

38Special

03-08-06, 09:40 AM

Yeah Roger, I haven't heard that one before. Can I have the hummer?

Rich

03-08-06, 10:18 AM

The way Clemens has framed the issue, any way he chooses to retire is the right way.

Sam18

03-08-06, 11:32 AM

Take a pay cut and come to the Yankees. You know you want to.

27IsNext

03-08-06, 11:40 AM

Take a pay cut and come to the Yankees. You know you want to.

I second the recommendation.

Sam18

03-08-06, 11:46 AM

I second the recommendation.

We should have a petition like we had in the summer of 04' for RJ. Yeah it didn't work but we tried our best.

scooterfan

03-08-06, 01:22 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-03-07-clemens_x.htm

Clemens expects to hang them up, for now.

I don't meant to sound cynical here BUT

This sounds like a perfect way for Roger to see which team is contending for a World Series in - say - July

If Houston is in contention and looks good, I'd expect Roger to sign there. The only thing that gives me pause is the Astros' treatment of Bagwell.

If they're out of it, he looks at the Yankees and Red Sox.

Both teams will be in it, and both offer him the possibility of major bucks

Picture the endorsement $$$ Roger gets going to either city.

If he chooses well, he could walk off into the sunset with another WS ring.

Tifoso

03-08-06, 01:44 PM

I don't meant to sound cynical here BUT

This sounds like a perfect way for Roger to see which team is contending for a World Series in - say - July

If Houston is in contention and looks good, I'd expect Roger to sign there. The only thing that gives me pause is the Astros' treatment of Bagwell.

If they're out of it, he looks at the Yankees and Red Sox.

Both teams will be in it, and both offer him the possibility of major bucks

Picture the endorsement $$$ Roger gets going to either city.

If he chooses well, he could walk off into the sunset with another WS ring.

So you're saying he chooses the Yankees, then? ;)

Sam18

03-08-06, 01:56 PM

So you're saying he chooses the Yankees, then? ;)

Yeah I just don't see Clemens picking the redsox if both teams are contending.

Tifoso

03-08-06, 02:07 PM

Yeah I just don't see Clemens picking the redsox if both teams are contending.

On money alone. :)

Roger ain't perfect (neither am I, for that matter), but it would be pretty cool to see a certain HOF get another WS ring with the Yanks this year.

Again: (assuming all are throwing well): who gets the axe in the SR, though?

Sam18

03-08-06, 02:09 PM

On money alone. :)

I don't think the sox will give him more money than the Yankees. Unless they're really, really desperate.

Tifoso

03-08-06, 02:10 PM

I don't think the sox will give him more money than the Yankees. Unless they're really, really desperate.

That's my point :)

See my post above (I edited it a bit)

Sam18

03-08-06, 02:11 PM

On money alone. :)

Roger ain't perfect (neither am I, for that matter), but it would be pretty cool to see a certain HOF get another WS ring with the Yanks this year.

Again: (assuming all are throwing well): who gets the axe in the SR, though?

No one gets the axe if they are all throwing well. But Cashman could get smart and trade Pavano if he's pitching well.

ShaneTravis

03-08-06, 02:13 PM

Tifoso

03-08-06, 02:15 PM

On the cynical side, I think 18 million gets it done. Report to work June 1st, get 13-15 wins, pick up check. Sounds about right.

and ring ;)

Tifoso

03-08-06, 02:16 PM

No one gets the axe if they are all throwing well. But Cashman could get smart and trade Pavano if he's pitching well.

I was afraid someone was going to say that:(

Assuming that he is, do you trade a young(er) pitcher pitching well, for a 1 season rental?

27IsNext

03-08-06, 02:19 PM

I've already called it in the Prediction Contest--Roger WILL sign with the Yanks this summer.

Sam18

03-08-06, 02:21 PM

I was afraid someone was going to say that:(

Assuming that he is, do you trade a young(er) pitcher pitching well, for a 1 season rental?

Maybe if Clemens changes his last name to Clemensa you'll be happy? ;)

ShaneTravis

03-08-06, 02:22 PM

and ring ;)

As long as he signs with the Yanks.
I think Roger would like nothing better to collect a check from postseason shares, get a ring and retire.

Sam18

03-08-06, 02:24 PM

As long as he signs with the Yanks.
I think Roger would like nothing better to collect a check from postseason shares, get a ring and retire.

If he could've gotten Miguel Cabrera out then he probably would've gotten that ring and retired.

Tifoso

03-08-06, 02:33 PM

Maybe if Clemens changes his last name to Clemensa you'll be happy? ;)

:lol:

Brilliant :clap:

Vin

03-09-06, 01:39 AM

Is Clemens "retirement" for real? I wont believe unless he really doesn't play anymore.

ryanthe13th

03-09-06, 01:48 AM

I was afraid someone was going to say that:(

Assuming that he is, do you trade a young(er) pitcher pitching well, for a 1 season rental?

Considering Pavano sucks, of course.

flymick24

03-09-06, 03:25 AM

clemens to visit rangers on thurs:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060308&content_id=1341362&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

StatenIslandYankee

03-14-06, 12:45 AM

I've already called it in the Prediction Contest--Roger WILL sign with the Yanks this summer.
God I hope so

PonytailAtHome

03-14-06, 10:34 AM

God I hope so

Yeah that would definitely be sweet! :)

The PRO

03-17-06, 08:06 PM

I think now is the time to try and sign him, or at least approach him. He just came off a few games in the World Baseball Classic and the USA lost. Does he want to go out like that or on a winner? If he signs with the Yankees, he's got a good chance of going out on a WS winner. I'm sure George would be willing to go the extra mile, or money. Plus, with our staff, who knows who'll go down with an injury. Always good to have Roger on hand.

nhyankeefan

03-17-06, 08:15 PM

ShaneTravis

03-20-06, 05:48 AM

Just in case we have not heard enough about this story line.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/sports/baseball/20yankees.html

Another name, without a locker in the Yankees clubhouse, remained prominent Sunday: Roger Clemens. Jeter and Leiter, who played with Clemens on Team USA, said they talked to him about rejoining the Yankees. Jeter, for one, says he is convinced Clemens will not retire.

"If you ask me, I think he's going to keep pitching, but it has nothing to do with any conversation we had," Jeter said. "He pitched well. I don't think he's getting any worse. It looks like he's improving, and being like he's always been. Having seen that, I don't see him retiring.

"You never know, but make sure you write that it had nothing to do with anything he told me."