View Full Version : How does everyone feel about the offseason so far?
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 12:22 PM
Okay so the Red Sox land Beckett for very little. The Mets land Carlos Delgado for even less than that. Both teams are making big splashes, especially the cross town rival New York Mets. So how does everyone feel about our Yankees seemingly staying quiet and not making any brazen moves. Personally I like it. I think the team is better off with this approach and ultimately the Yankees will put together a team not filled with the huge names that we have come to expect to be adding every offseason but more a team of solid players that can get their job done. I believe that Cashman and the Yanks will put a very good team on the field and it may not consist of the names we all expect but it will be a good team. Of course I could be wrong.
So I was just wondering how everyone feels so far. Are the Yankees asleep at the wheel? Should they strike back with a huge move? Or is this the best approach to a very shallow free agent market and teams that are demanding a great deal for players that they may trade. Your thoughts and comments?
BillBuckner
11-23-05, 12:23 PM
I'm thinking it's only November and everyone needs to stop panicing.
Kulish29
11-23-05, 12:25 PM
Bored.
yankeebot
11-23-05, 12:25 PM
This needs its own thread?
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 12:27 PM
This needs its own thread?
Why doesn't it, its about the state of the Yankees, not a paticular player, not a paticular move, it's about what people think, whats your problem with it?
yankeebot
11-23-05, 12:30 PM
Why doesn't it, its about the state of the Yankees, not a paticular player, not a paticular move, it's about what people think, whats your problem with it?
I don't really have a problem with it. It is just that this is being talked about in every thread. I don't see how this will be anything but repetitive but no big deal and no offense intended.
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 12:32 PM
I don't really have a problem with it. It is just that this is being talked about in every thread. I don't see how this will be anything but repetitive but no big deal and no offense intended.
None taken, I'm was just kind of tired of fishing through all the other boards on
Delgado, Ryan and Giles and there is no real Yankee news happening I thought this would be a good place to just discuss how things are going. I see your point though.
it's not even friggin december yet. will you people calm down
The postseason sucked because the Yankees lost in 5 to the LAAofA.
This offseason, on the other hand, has been a real yawner.
Seamonk
11-23-05, 12:40 PM
Couldn't be happier.
I've already ordered my Jose Veras jersey...
;)
nyg02005
11-23-05, 12:41 PM
Pls change the topic from postseason to offseason.
Sierra Mist
11-23-05, 12:46 PM
I'm thinking it's only November and everyone needs to stop panicing.
the problem is by the time we start making moves it will be too late. Kinda reminds me of the 2000 offseason when Nelson left. Cash watched all these relievers get signed and he winds up with a re-tread Boehringer and Todd Williams.
BillBuckner
11-23-05, 12:48 PM
This needs its own thread?
There's nothing else to talk about. :lol:
I think that it is a good thing that someone in the Yankee organization could care a less about responding to the Red Sox, just for the sake of stealinig the backpage headlines, and thus far are sticking to the plan.
Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:02 PM
Can I pick 1 and 3? :D
Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:03 PM
Couldn't be happier.
I've already ordered my Jose Veras jersey...
;) :roflmao: :roflmao:
Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:04 PM
the problem is by the time we start making moves it will be too late. Kinda reminds me of the 2000 offseason when Nelson left. Cash watched all these relievers get signed and he winds up with a re-tread Boehringer and Todd Williams.
BINGO.
You can't force a person to sign with your team if they don't want to play for your team, and you shouldn't make trades that don't address needs.
The Yankees have avoided doing both of those things so far, which is a good thing -- and the Winter Meetings haven't even begun yet, so it is WAY too early to judge the effectiveness of this offseason at this point.
The Yanks have a select few chips to deal in the minor league system, and there is a dearth of talent at every position via free agency except for closer. Since the Yanks have the best closer in the game, not many of the current pitchers want to sign to be a #2.
Neither the Beckett or the Delgado deals would have made any sense from the Yankee standpoint- in the case of Beckett, they probably didn't have the goods to complete it and even if Florida would have taken a package of Hughes, Duncan and a 3rd B-level prospect it wouldn't have been wise to trade ALL of your premium chips to strengthen an area that is not really a weakness, while adding an albatross of a contract and a guy who played the same position as your best player.
So.......the Yanks biggest needs are addressing CF and relief. They may do so, they may not. But I, for one, am happy that they are not macking "panic" type moves and overpaying in terms of players for quick fixes. I like the approach, long term, if not necessarily the immediate dividends.
But don't fool yourselves- the direction the FO is taking right now is certainly the better choice than chasing the next big fish (no pun intended).
I think Cash is doing a good job of "feeling out" the market. Winter Meetings start in two weeks, I think we'll see some action then.
To be honest, this offseason has been boring, yet stressful (can't think of a better word). I'm worried about several aspects of the Yankees game: center field, the bullpen, and yes, even starting pitching. And we haven't filled those positions yet (which is okay). However, watching rival teams like the Mets and the Red Sox fulfill there needs in a strong, quick fashion isn't fun to see. I just hope we find the right players for our needs as well.
To be honest, this offseason has been boring, yet stressful (can't think of a better word). I'm worried about several aspects of the Yankees game: center field, the bullpen, and yes, even starting pitching. And we haven't filled those positions yet (which is okay). However, watching rival teams like the Mets and the Red Sox fulfill there needs in a strong, quick fashion isn't fun to see. I just hope we find the right players for our needs as well.
I'd rather see the Yankees make no moves than to see them make a foolish one.
Kluivert4Ever
11-23-05, 01:32 PM
I'd rather see the Yankees make no moves than to see them make a foolish one.
Never make a move just for the sake of making one.
Never make a move just for the sake of making one.
Agreed. Sadly too many fans are going crazy over the sox and mets making moves.
stephsamps
11-23-05, 01:46 PM
You can't force a person to sign with your team if they don't want to play for your team, and you shouldn't make trades that don't address needs.
The Yankees have avoided doing both of those things so far, which is a good thing -- and the Winter Meetings haven't even begun yet, so it is WAY too early to judge the effectiveness of this offseason at this point.
I'd rather see the Yankees make no moves than to see them make a foolish one.
BINGO!!! All these people who are so up in arms about nothing happening (yet), its not like EVERYONE is sitting their saying, "I want to be a Yankee." It is a small crop of free agents this year and all teams have needs.
I feel like some people won't be happy unless we have even more of a fantasy team line up, and as we have seen, that doesn't work.
These are the Yankees. I am sure SOMETHING will happen this off-season. Just be patient. Beckett and Delgado aren't our pressing needs.
Soriambi
11-23-05, 01:54 PM
I'm fine with what has happened so far. We're still very early in the off-season, and they've done what they could do so far. They re-signed Matsui, they're making a run at Giles, they made a run at Ryan, and so on. You can't make signings and moves that aren't there, and you don't want to seem desperate and get completely ripped off in a trade. There is still plenty of time. The winter meetings are still over two weeks away. A team that panics due to the actions of other teams usually makes a bad deal.
brosiusbuddy
11-23-05, 02:14 PM
Ok. So the Sox have Beckett. I will really fret about this when he puts together a consistent season that is made up of more than 170 innings.
Schillings future is up in the air. He could be back to normal or he could be 05 Schilling all over again. An injury as serious as his at his age usually tends to make you get worse, not better.
Wells may or may not stay, but either way he doesn't scare me in the least.
Wakefield could pitch forever if he wanted, but in all seriousness, each start will always be a question mark. Each inning will always be a question mark.
Arroyo... lol
Clement showed what he's made of in the ALDS this year. Until his wildness gets corrected, I can't see him being what they were hoping for.
Miller. Who?
Papelbon. Time will tell.
I think the Yanks are fine right now. If February comes around and we still haven't signed anyone, then it'll be a different story. But Cashman has been true to his word so far and thats good. We have a good thing going in both Cano and Wang and I'm happy he isn't letting them loose.
If Beckett turns out to be the superstar Lupica and such others are making him out to be, I still think it'll take more than that for Boston... at least in '06.
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 02:41 PM
Mods please edit the subject from postseason to offseason, that was a mistake on my part. Thanks.
27IsNext
11-23-05, 02:44 PM
Bored to tears, but at least we haven't made stupid trades or payed up the wazoo for a relief pitcher.
Btw, I was more worried about Annibal Sanchez playing for the Sox one day than I am worried about Josh Beckett now. I'm glad they made the trade.
Yankeeah
11-23-05, 04:29 PM
It's November. Talk to me January 15th and then I'll give my opinions.
Ok. So the Sox have Beckett. I will really fret about this when he puts together a consistent season that is made up of more than 170 innings.
Schillings future is up in the air. He could be back to normal or he could be 05 Schilling all over again. An injury as serious as his at his age usually tends to make you get worse, not better.
Wells may or may not stay, but either way he doesn't scare me in the least.
Wakefield could pitch forever if he wanted, but in all seriousness, each start will always be a question mark. Each inning will always be a question mark.
Arroyo... lol
Clement showed what he's made of in the ALDS this year. Until his wildness gets corrected, I can't see him being what they were hoping for.
Miller. Who?
Papelbon. Time will tell.
I think the Yanks are fine right now. If February comes around and we still haven't signed anyone, then it'll be a different story. But Cashman has been true to his word so far and thats good. We have a good thing going in both Cano and Wang and I'm happy he isn't letting them loose.
If Beckett turns out to be the superstar Lupica and such others are making him out to be, I still think it'll take more than that for Boston... at least in '06.
Oh my God, I agreed with every word you said. I'm scared.
The Yanks haven't done anything stupid so far, and Mel and Louis are gone, which is good.
jnewmark
11-23-05, 04:48 PM
I voted for the last one, but, with the way teams are making deals, it makes me wonder if " taking care of business" is actually not doing any business at all ! It seems that Cano and Wang have to be part of any deal, and Cashman, so far, has refused to budge. It appears that, this offseason is either sign the Free Agents, or nothing.
It's not even Thanksgiving yet. Give it some time. Take a deep breath folks.
jnewmark
11-23-05, 04:54 PM
It's not even Thanksgiving yet. Give it some time. Take a deep breath folks.
Everytime I try to take a deep breath, another deal gets done. Thank God tomorrow is a holiday! Have a good one, everyone!
Everytime I try to take a deep breath, another deal gets done. Thank God tomorrow is a holiday! Have a good one, everyone!
I feel the same way. The Mets are making some huge deals/offers.
I know I am going to get "bashed" for this, but I think the Yanks need to sign a solid starting pitcher, someone like Jarrod Washburn, Paul Byrd, or Kevin Millwood. They can then trade off Pavano or Wright for a bullpen or centerfielder....
For me, that would make this offseason better.
yankswn23
11-23-05, 05:16 PM
Who are the free agents next year? Maybe we will make a move around the all star break for one of those rent a player deals?
Darth_Takeo
11-23-05, 05:26 PM
If we take too much time, there won't be any moves left to be made...
I feel the same way. The Mets are making some huge deals/offers.
I know I am going to get "bashed" for this, but I think the Yanks need to sign a solid starting pitcher, someone like Jarrod Washburn, Paul Byrd, or Kevin Millwood. They can then trade off Pavano or Wright for a bullpen or centerfielder....
For me, that would make this offseason better.
I doubt we get a fair deal for Pavano or Wright.
yanksphan
11-23-05, 05:30 PM
I can't wait for some stuffing tomorrow.
yankswn23
11-23-05, 05:33 PM
Free agents after the 2006 Season, players that might be avail in 2005:
ONES THAT CAUGHT MY EYE:
OF:
Steve Finley (club option)
Jermaine Dye (club option)
Torii Hunter
Shannon Stewart
David Dellucci
Ricky Ledee
Jim Edmonds (club option)
Barry Bonds
INFIELDERS:
Chipper Jones (Club Option)
Javy Lopez, c
Alfonso Soriano
Derrek Lee
PITCHERS:
Kerry Wood
Andy Pettitte
Eric Gagne (club option)
Kelvim Escobar
Damaso Marte
Troy Percival
Brad Radke
Barry Zito
BronxByTheBay
11-23-05, 05:34 PM
I feel great about the off-season so far, with the exception of Ryan not wanting to set up for Mo.
We haven't traded any prospects and kept our young guys on the ML roster.
We resigned Matsui.
The winter meetings haven't started yet and what chips we do have to deal are still in place, meanwhile our rivals gave up the farm for two guys that don't address other needs (STILL hate that one of those guys is Beckett, but oh well).
We're going to have the last laugh. Bet on it.
I feel great about the off-season so far, with the exception of Ryan not wanting to set up for Mo.
We haven't traded any prospects and kept our young guys on the ML roster.
We resigned Matsui.
The winter meetings haven't started yet and what chips we do have to deal are still in place, meanwhile our rivals gave up the farm for two guys that don't address other needs (STILL hate that one of those guys is Beckett, but oh well).
We're going to have the last laugh. Bet on it.
Agreed on all points.
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 05:39 PM
We're going to have the last laugh. Bet on it.
For some reason BBTB I think you are 100% on the money and not because of my faith in the Yankees but because for some reason I hold a lot of stock in what you say. Weird. It's that same feeling I got back in 2003 when we were going to game 7 and someone wearing a Yankee shirt on campus that I had never met or seen before looked at my tattered Yankee hat and said to me "We got this one". Dunno what it is, I just get that feeling though.
ChrisV82
11-23-05, 05:41 PM
Prospects we've given up for aging stars - 0
Yankees success rate - 100%
I'm a little disappointed we didn't get a shot at Rowand, but I'm also glad we didn't give up Cano or something for him. Although if Philly traded Jim Thome AND got $22 mill for it, maybe we could have traded Giambi (who has a no-trade clause) and gotten $44 mill. Then we could sign Konerko, Molina, etc., and still have extra money for pie and cookies.
As it is, I hope Giambi and Crosby have great seasons for us next year.
NewEraYanks2527
11-23-05, 05:45 PM
As it is, I hope Giambi and Crosby have great seasons for us next year.
Before Stacey can say it I will, Giambi WILL have a great year for us next year.
ChrisV82
11-23-05, 05:50 PM
I whole heartedly support his MVP bid.
BronxByTheBay
11-23-05, 06:16 PM
For some reason BBTB I think you are 100% on the money and not because of my faith in the Yankees but because for some reason I hold a lot of stock in what you say. Weird. It's that same feeling I got back in 2003 when we were going to game 7 and someone wearing a Yankee shirt on campus that I had never met or seen before looked at my tattered Yankee hat and said to me "We got this one". Dunno what it is, I just get that feeling though.
I feel good about the organization as a whole right now. It feels like they do have a direction - an agenda. Perhaps I'm severly overestimating Cash and his braintrust, but it feels like there's a larger scheme at work.
Let the Mets and the Sox make the big, splashy plays in November. As we learned from the Chacon and Small acquisitions, sometimes it's not necessary to think big but rather smart.
(Although it still sucks that we're not getting Ryan.)
JfromJersey
11-23-05, 08:12 PM
I feel good about the organization as a whole right now. It feels like they do have a direction - an agenda. Perhaps I'm severly overestimating Cash and his braintrust, but it feels like there's a larger scheme at work.
Let the Mets and the Sox make the big, splashy plays in November. As we learned from the Chacon and Small acquisitions, sometimes it's not necessary to think big but rather smart.
(Although it still sucks that we're not getting Ryan.)
Until we actually take some positive action to address our obvious weaknesses, I can't get any sense of a direction, or agenda if you wish.
brosiusbuddy
11-23-05, 08:30 PM
Oh my God, I agreed with every word you said. I'm scared.
you and i agreeing... a very rare happening indeed, lol
Joe Pepitone
11-23-05, 10:04 PM
Ok. So the Sox have Beckett. I will really fret about this when he puts together a consistent season that is made up of more than 170 innings.
Schillings future is up in the air. He could be back to normal or he could be 05 Schilling all over again. An injury as serious as his at his age usually tends to make you get worse, not better.
Wells may or may not stay, but either way he doesn't scare me in the least.
Wakefield could pitch forever if he wanted, but in all seriousness, each start will always be a question mark. Each inning will always be a question mark.
Arroyo... lol
Clement showed what he's made of in the ALDS this year. Until his wildness gets corrected, I can't see him being what they were hoping for.
Miller. Who?
Papelbon. Time will tell.
I think the Yanks are fine right now. If February comes around and we still haven't signed anyone, then it'll be a different story. But Cashman has been true to his word so far and thats good. We have a good thing going in both Cano and Wang and I'm happy he isn't letting them loose.
If Beckett turns out to be the superstar Lupica and such others are making him out to be, I still think it'll take more than that for Boston... at least in '06. In fairness, if you are going to do this to the Sox rotation (look at every pitcher through a "glass is half empty" view), you could easily do the same with the Yankee starters. Just worth pointing out... I am of the belief that the Sox have improved themselves thus far. Although Beckett hasn't been the most durable starter, he immediately gives them at least a #2 pitcher. For that reason and others (i.e. Ryan's understandable desire to want to be a closer), I am not thrilled about the offseason thus far... which is simply what this thread was asking. Personally, I think it is a little bit of wishful thinking to expect Small and Chacon to repeat their performances of last season. Hence, I disagree that the Yankees shouldn't have thought long and hard about some of the proposed (albeit unconfirmed) trades it would have taken to get him.
Cashman should have a pretty good handle on the offseason by the time spring training rolls around.
brosiusbuddy
11-23-05, 10:23 PM
Although Beckett hasn't been the most durable starter, he immediately gives them at least a #2 pitcher. Personally, I think it is a little bit of wishful thinking to expect Small and Chacon to repeat their performances of last season. .
Fine, they have a number 2 starter. But where is the number 1? If this were 2004 than you can say Schilling is but you could hardly call Schilling an ace right now, at least not until he proves he is again.
As for Chacon and Small, I think it is very fair to say that Chacon is the real deal. He came over in the middle off the season in the thick of a race and was nothing short of brilliant throughout the regular and post seasons. He also pitched with more confidence because he threw his breaking pitches very very very very frequently compared to his NL days and thats where his best stuff is... not in his fastball.
Small may not be 10-0 again, but i think if he provides us with 10 wins all season it will be fine.
Remember that the Yanks were the best team in baseball from june on til october in terms of wins and the starting pitching was mainly the reason for that. If these guys could resurrect an 11-19 team to a 95 win team and division champs, then i am confident they can be solid again.
As for offseason moves... it looks more and more like pavano wants out so if thats what he really wants, go get some bullpen help or a CF for him AFTER you sign millwood. I would love to see milwood on this staff next season
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 07:37 AM
Things that are in the past:
1.) Yanks making a bold move without regard to satisfying team needs for the sole reason Boston made a move
2.) Yanks making a trade that makes no sense to prevent Boston from getting said player.
3.) Yanks building for next year without regard to the following years.
And if this continues, I will be one very happy Yankee fan.
38Special
11-24-05, 10:30 AM
Things that are in the past:
1.) Yanks making a bold move without regard to satisfying team needs for the sole reason Boston made a move
2.) Yanks making a trade that makes no sense to prevent Boston from getting said player.
3.) Yanks building for next year without regard to the following years.
And if this continues, I will be one very happy Yankee fan.
Agreed.
I'm upset as much as anyone about the lack of bullpen options available...but I dont think Cashman has much of a choice when it comes to these big names? 3 years for eyre? 3 years for howry? 5 years for BJ Ryan? Relievers are so wishy woshy from year to year, and Eyre and Howry are far from proven. We have to do what every other team does, take a flier on alot of guys, and start developing our relief staff from within.
For 2006 we could use: Henn, Smith, DePaula, Bean, Anderson out of spring training, and likely TJ Beam or J. Brent Cox by mid season. Theres no reason to make stupid moves and get stuck with guys that we cant release/send down if they suck...ex: Stanton, F-Rod, Sturtze, Quantrill
Look at the White Sox last year.
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 10:36 AM
Agreed.
I'm upset as much as anyone about the lack of bullpen options available...but I dont think Cashman has much of a choice when it comes to these big names? 3 years for eyre? 3 years for howry? 5 years for BJ Ryan? Relievers are so wishy woshy from year to year, and Eyre and Howry are far from proven. We have to do what every other team does, take a flier on alot of guys, and start developing our relief staff from within.
For 2006 we could use: Henn, Smith, DePaula, Bean, Anderson out of spring training, and likely TJ Beam or J. Brent Cox by mid season. Theres no reason to make stupid moves and get stuck with guys that we cant release/send down if they suck...ex: Stanton, F-Rod, Sturtze, Quantrill
Look at the White Sox last year.
I have never been a believer in the "lesser of two evils" approach. If it's a good deal, then go for it, but to pay absurd amount of money/years for a player not worth it is bad for business and for the team.
JfromJersey
11-24-05, 10:59 AM
I'm upset as much as anyone about the lack of bullpen options available...but I dont think Cashman has much of a choice when it comes to these big names? 3 years for eyre? 3 years for howry? 5 years for BJ Ryan? Relievers are so wishy woshy from year to year, and Eyre and Howry are far from proven. We have to do what every other team does, take a flier on alot of guys, and start developing our relief staff from within.
For 2006 we could use: Henn, Smith, DePaula, Bean, Anderson out of spring training, and likely TJ Beam or J. Brent Cox by mid season. Theres no reason to make stupid moves and get stuck with guys that we cant release/send down if they suck...ex: Stanton, F-Rod, Sturtze, Quantrill
Look at the White Sox last year.
I agree with you about the pen. The outfield is another story, unless you think we can live with Bubba Crosby in CF most of the year.
38Special
11-24-05, 11:02 AM
I dont think we do. There will be major league options after the non-tendering deadline
BRNXBMRS
11-24-05, 11:11 AM
So far so good, there are no panic moves and they arent trading for the sake of trading. The Mets needed a firstbaseman, Boston needed a pitcher and these two teams addressed their needs. Cashman is keeping his cool. We'll see what happens at the winter meetings.
Dr. Gonzo
11-24-05, 11:36 AM
I'm thinking it's only November and everyone needs to stop panicing.
people want action for the sake of it.
Watch, the first trade everyone here is bitching about it, although they all craved it. Backwards people.
bronxbomberz212
11-24-05, 11:40 AM
i like the fact that so far, no stupid rash decisions have been made. it's a good sign imho. but the lack of movement is kinda unfamiliar, maybe it's the offseason itself and the fact that there just isn't so much out there, especially with the unmovable contracts that the yankees have.it's been a while since the yankees have stayed calm up to this point in the offseason, which is good like i said. but i can't front i wish we could've landed rowand. hearing that news last night made me do an aw shucks.
JfromJersey
11-24-05, 11:59 AM
people want action for the sake of it.
Watch, the first trade everyone here is bitching about it, although they all craved it. Backwards people.
If it wasn't the Red Sox and the Mets making the big splashes, no one would care that Cashman hasn't jumped into the fray yet. The irony here is that both those teams are very proactive, because of the Yankees. The Sox, because we are their most hated division rivals, and the Mets, because of the NY market rivalry. The Yankees have also traditionally garnered most of the off season headlines (Clemens, Mussina, Giambi, Matsui, A-Rod, Randy), and that's always in the back of everybody's mind, despite protests of being more fiscally responsible, and not mortgaging the future for the present. If we don't do anything dramatic this offseason, it will be the first time that's happened in a while.
ring403
11-24-05, 12:07 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/368524p-313549c.html
Cashman feels there is no urgency for the Yankees to make moves, despite the fact that teams such as the Mets, who dealt for Carlos Delgado, and Red Sox have made big splashes this week. "Other teams are addressing needs," Cashman said. "I don't have a need for a first baseman. The Mets are getting one. I don't have to react."
In the past, George Steinbrenner has gotten angry when the Mets and Red Sox have dominated baseball's attention, but one Yankee source said yesterday that amid all the fanfare about both teams' deals, "He's OK. It's a different era now."
PlsDontTearDownY.S.
11-24-05, 12:12 PM
I see the Yankees not panicking and taking a measured approach, and that's cool with me. It would be nice to see some continuity and not have these major changes every offseason...so far so good.
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 06:01 PM
Cashman feels there is no urgency for the Yankees to make moves, despite the fact that teams such as the Mets, who dealt for Carlos Delgado, and Red Sox have made big splashes this week. "Other teams are addressing needs," Cashman said. "I don't have a need for a first baseman. The Mets are getting one. I don't have to react."
In the past, George Steinbrenner has gotten angry when the Mets and Red Sox have dominated baseball's attention, but one Yankee source said yesterday that amid all the fanfare about both teams' deals, "He's OK. It's a different era now."
__________________
:clap: :clap: :clap: Thank God Cashman is in charge!
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/368524p-313549c.html
:eek: George calm? Wow, maybe things really are different now.
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 06:26 PM
:eek: George calm? Wow, maybe things really are different now.
It makes me wonder if certain rumors about George not being in control anymore are true.
It makes me wonder if certain rumors about George not being in control anymore are true.
Same here. Or George finially realized that the Tampa fools have wrecked this team in the last few years. I'm going with your theory.
DiMaggio5CF
11-24-05, 08:37 PM
The Yankees' top needs, most agree, are the bullpen, centerfield, and the Designated Hitter role.
-----------------
Relief Pitching: The bullpen has to be pretty much rebuilt from scratch. Mariano Rivera remains and the Yankees have picked up the option on Tanyon Sturtze. If you include both Jaret Wright and Aaron Small, that still leaves two vacant spots. One will be depended upon to be the top setup man and the other must be a left-handed specialist.
Options off the table: Bobby Howry, Scott Eyre
Doubtful Options: B.J. Ryan, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Tom Gordon, Mike Myers, Joey Eischen, Sean Henn, Colter Bean
Top Options: Kyle Farnsworth, Bob Wickman, Braden Looper, Ricardo Rincon, Octavio Dotel, Julian Tavarez, Ugueth Urbina
Outlook: Negative
-----------------
Centerfield: It's quite obvious that Bernie Williams' days as the Yankees' starting centerfielder are done -- that is, unless the Yankees simply can't come up with anyone better to replace his declining bat, dwindling range, and poor throwing arm.
Options off the table: Aaron Rowand
Doubtful Options: Brian Giles, Juan Pierre, Rafael Furcal
Top Options: Jacques Jones, Johnny Damon, Corey Patterson, Preston Wilson, Jason Michaels, Endy Chavez, Bubba Crosby, Melky Cabrera, Bernie Williams
Note: The Yankees can move Hideki Matsui to centerfield and concentrate on finding a replacement in left field, but that does little to improve the situation. Reggie Sanders and Rondell White would be included as possible left field options.
Outlook: Negative
-----------------
Designated Hitter: The Yankees can still use this spot to give Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield occasional rest periods to prevent potential injuries and/or heal present injuries. However, that means starting the season -- the way the team is currently constructed, at least -- with Tony Womack as the starting DH.
Options off the table: N/A
Doubtful Options: Paul Konerko, Anthony Garciaparra
Top Options: Tony Womack, Andy Phillips, Richard Hidalgo, Carl Everett, Jorge Posada, Juan Gonzalez, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza
Note: Jorge Posada could be shifted to the DH role if the Yankees acquire another catcher. The top candidates to become the new Yankee catcher are Bengie Molina, Ramon Hernandez, and Paul Lo Duca.
Outlook: Negative
-----------------
I am not upset by the lack of action, but the lack of good options makes me nervous. We'll hang onto our young stars and our top prospects, but I don't see us signficantly upgrading any of our present needs.
IrishYankee
11-24-05, 08:45 PM
Anthony??? Is Nomar really a translation of Tony?? I can hear that in a NY accent.
38Special
11-24-05, 08:51 PM
I prefer to call him Ramon
DiMaggio5CF
11-24-05, 08:52 PM
Anthony??? Is Nomar really a translation of Tony?? I can hear that in a NY accent.
Nomar is his father's name, Ramon, backwards. That is the dumbest reason for a nickname I've ever heard in my life, and so I refuse to call him that. He's Anthony Garciaparra.
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 08:54 PM
I prefer to call him Ramon
Ramon, bring me your shirt!
nyg02005
11-24-05, 11:09 PM
I can understand the ideas of non trading of prospect and not signing F.A. But if we are going that way, we should trade Mussina and Sheff who are in their final year to get prospects back. Someone pls convince me that with the team we have right now, we are really a serious contender.
I can understand the ideas of non trading of prospect and not signing F.A. But if we are going that way, we should trade Mussina and Sheff who are in their final year to get prospects back. Someone pls convince me that with the team we have right now, we are really a serious contender.
So you want to do a Florida Marlins offseason (which they already did with that exact player, Gary Sheffield)?
Who would trade quality prospects for a year of $19 mil Mike Mussina? I don't think we'd get too much for Sheff either.
They contended last year. They have a great offense as is. Center Field defense will improve a very large amount no matter what. They have quality to good starting pitching and hopefully enough depth (7 guys) to survive injuries. Their relief pitching will probably get better this offseason. Why wouldn't they contend?
nyg02005
11-24-05, 11:17 PM
So you want to do a Florida Marlins offseason (which they already did with that exact player, Gary Sheffield)?
Who would trade quality prospects for a year of $19 mil Mike Mussina? I don't think we'd get too much for Sheff either.
They contended last year. They have a great offense as is. Center Field defense will improve a very large amount no matter what. They have quality to good starting pitching and hopefully enough depth (7 guys) to survive injuries. Their relief pitching will probably get better this offseason. Why wouldn't they contend?
How can you get a CF that is a lot better than crosby if you are not going to trade prospect or overpay for a F.A?. Same is true for relievers. One by one the F.A. relievers are being signed and we have not signed even 1 and we need at least 2 if not 3.
When I say contend, it is winning the w.s. not going to the playoff.
How can you get a CF that is a lot better than crosby if you are not going to trade prospect or overpay for a F.A?. Same is true for relievers. One by one the F.A. relievers are being signed and we have not signed even 1 and we need at least 2 if not 3.
When I say contend, it is winning the w.s. not going to the playoff.
How the heck does contend ever mean win the WS? All you can do is construct a team to win games. There is no sure fire formula for winning the WS.
I doubt Crosby will start for the Yanks in center, and if he does he will be a wash with Bernie this year (worse offensively and a lot better defensively).
There is nothing we can do if free agent relievers want to play for other teams. The ones that have signed so far by free agency (Eyre and Howry) got 3 year deals after coming off 1 good year. I don't mind not having them. There are still good relievers out there, look for them yourself.
You are suggesting rebuilding, which A) wont work because of our current players and New York City and B) is silly because this team is good.
YankeePride1967
11-24-05, 11:26 PM
How can you get a CF that is a lot better than crosby if you are not going to trade prospect or overpay for a F.A?. Same is true for relievers. One by one the F.A. relievers are being signed and we have not signed even 1 and we need at least 2 if not 3.
When I say contend, it is winning the w.s. not going to the playoff.
You do realize that at $19 million, Mike Mussina is untradable unless we pay around $12 million of it.
nyg02005
11-24-05, 11:30 PM
How the heck does contend ever mean win the WS? All you can do is construct a team to win games. There is no sure fire formula for winning the WS.
I doubt Crosby will start for the Yanks in center, and if he does he will be a wash with Bernie this year (worse offensively and a lot better defensively).
There is nothing we can do if free agent relievers want to play for other teams. The ones that have signed so far by free agency (Eyre and Howry) got 3 year deals after coming off 1 good year. I don't mind not having them. There are still good relievers out there, look for them yourself.
You are suggesting rebuilding, which A) wont work because of our current players and New York City and B) is silly because this team is good.
what I am suggesting is to be realistic. The reality is without the needed help, we have little chance to win it all. So getting rid of one year contract and getting something in return will position the team for next year offseason or even in midseason. Even without sheff, the team will still be good offensively and without mussina, we still have SP. I guess we position ourselves for next offseason and try our minor league players or signed low key players and hope they can contribute this year.
SINCE77 2
11-24-05, 11:38 PM
How can you get a CF that is a lot better than crosby if you are not going to trade prospect or overpay for a F.A?. Same is true for relievers. One by one the F.A. relievers are being signed and we have not signed even 1 and we need at least 2 if not 3.
When I say contend, it is winning the w.s. not going to the playoff.
The point is not to over pay. Why trade good prospects for Mota and Villone when Proctor and Matt Smith can probably duplicate their performance for nothing? The Yankees finally understand (what teams like the Braves already know)that when it comes to 2nd tier players you might as well fill those roles from within as the performance will be about the same. Brian will get us a CF and bullpen help. Keep the faith.
Kulish29
11-25-05, 12:19 AM
Dec. 20th cant come soon enough.
NYYBombshell
11-25-05, 12:26 AM
I don't even know how to respond to this. I'll just say that I'm glad Cash is in charge.
NYYBombshell
11-25-05, 12:28 AM
Nomar is his father's name, Ramon, backwards. That is the dumbest reason for a nickname I've ever heard in my life, and so I refuse to call him that. He's Anthony Garciaparra.
Nomar is his middle name, not a nickname.
DiMaggio5CF
11-25-05, 12:48 AM
Nomar is his middle name, not a nickname.
I thought it was a nickname. So his parents are screwed up, and not so much him.
It's still gay, and I still refuse to call him that.
NYYBombshell
11-25-05, 12:49 AM
I thought it was a nickname. So his parents are screwed up, and not so much him.
It's still gay, and I still refuse to call him that.
I don't call him that either, but I wouldn't call it "gay".
Clemens831
11-25-05, 01:03 AM
I thought it was a nickname. So his parents are screwed up, and not so much him.
It's still gay, and I still refuse to call him that.
Gay? Honestly, grow up. Let's try to elevate the level of maturity in the conversation above that of middle school.
NYYBombshell
11-25-05, 01:05 AM
Gay? Honestly, grow up. Let's try to elevate the level of maturity in the conversation above that of middle school.
Shut up, you poopy-head!
:P
yankees76
11-25-05, 01:37 AM
The point is not to over pay. Why trade good prospects for Mota and Villone when Proctor and Matt Smith can probably duplicate their performance for nothing? The Yankees finally understand (what teams like the Braves already know)that when it comes to 2nd tier players you might as well fill those roles from within as the performance will be about the same. Brian will get us a CF and bullpen help. Keep the faith.
I like Smith and keep hoping for Proctor to harness his potential. Not sure about Villone as he ages. Mota on the other hand has great, great stuff. He was terrific setting up for Gagne, then seemed over his head when he needed to close after Gagne got injured. I have no explanation for how lost he continued to look with the Marlins, but he has much better stuff than Proctor.
[Edit: Mota is gone. Was included in the Beckett trade. Now the Sox have him. This could be a problem. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-marlinsbreakup&prov=ap&type=lgns]
38Special
11-25-05, 08:47 AM
Gay? Honestly, grow up. Let's try to elevate the level of maturity in the conversation above that of middle school.
Come on man, stop being gay
Fabien Brandy
11-25-05, 10:12 AM
Come on man, stop being gay
Seriously, there might be some Red Sox fans that post or lurk here and hateful gay-bashing wouldn't make them feel very welcome.
rightfielder21
11-25-05, 10:20 AM
Seriously, there might be some Red Sox fans that post or lurk here and hateful gay-bashing wouldn't make them feel very welcome.
There are...
ryanthe13th
11-25-05, 10:35 AM
I picked "Things are going okay, but I would have rather seen some moves by now". People on the board seem to think that by making posts saying we need to start acting that I want the team to be completed by the end of December. That is definitely not the case by any means. It would just be nice to hear that the Yankees are talking(seriously, not just phone tag) to a club about trade options or a free agent about signing here.
DiMaggio5CF
11-25-05, 11:34 AM
Gay? Honestly, grow up. Let's try to elevate the level of maturity in the conversation above that of middle school.
What? I personally don't have a problem with it; all I meant was that it has sex with other middle names. :wtf:
I Love Wang
11-25-05, 12:40 PM
What? I personally don't have a problem with it; all I meant was that it has sex with other middle names. :wtf:
Of the same gender.
ring403
11-25-05, 12:40 PM
Folks, let's please stay away from any more jokes concerning sexual preference. Thanks. :)
I Love Wang
11-25-05, 12:41 PM
Folks, let's please stay away from any more jokes concerning sexual preference. Thanks. :)
I really want to say "thats a gay rule," but it would be a little too obvious.
Dooley Womack
11-25-05, 03:51 PM
I feel great about the off-season so far, with the exception of Ryan not wanting to set up for Mo.
We haven't traded any prospects and kept our young guys on the ML roster.
Here's what I don't get. Some of the very same posters applauding the Yanks for not giving up prospects, trying to get younger and not spending money foolishly are trumpeting for the Yanks to sign a 35 year old CF in Giles, more likely overspending for him, and for a player who has shown some decline or at least has seen better days.. Even if those posters don't think he's in decline, how does throwing a boat-load of money for a 35 year old player fit into the very same plans (getting younger) that they are expressing kudos over? (I'm not directing this toward you because I know your feelings about Giles). I want Giles here too, but I don't pretend that I want the Yanks to be more budget-conscious or get younger. To win with this aging core, it's all about now, not to say that I want the Yanks to foolishly get rid of Cano or other great prospects.
We resigned Matsui.
Well, hell, my neighbor’s 4 year old daughter, who never heard of Matsui, could have accomplished that one. Overpaying (FMV, really) for someone who more than likely wanted to stay here was no great shakes.
The winter meetings haven't started yet and what chips we do have to deal are still in place, meanwhile our rivals gave up the farm for two guys that don't address other needs (STILL hate that one of those guys is Beckett, but oh well).
I can't disagree with you more regarding Boston's needs. Prior to the trade, the Sox had an aging Schilling who hasn't shown he'll be the pitcher he once was, Wade Miller, well, enough said, Clement who proved he can meltdown with the best of them and Wells who wants out. So they certainly DID need a pitcher, and boy did they get one.
As far as Lowell is concerned, Mueller has expressed his desire to play closer to home, and he doesn't mean the Charles Hotel. Boston now has a serviceable 3rd baseman with a decent glove, and if his bat comes around in the bandbox, pour more gravy on this trade.
We're going to have the last laugh. Bet on it.
I hope you're right, but I respectfully suspect you’re not any more privy to Cashman's plans or which players he prefers for the 2006 season than I or anyone else.
To others, anything I've said in this post is not a knock on Cashman, so keep your panties on tight. ;)
I am starting to get agrivated with the lack of action taken by the Yankees thus far this offseason. They have let the best free agent and tradable relievers get away, such as Scott Eyre, Mota, and B.J Ryan. Okay, maybe not the best. But it is clear that there are very few quality relievers left on the market now, and the options are thinning quickly. They need to make some offers to players/teams sooner rather than later considering the small market. Though they are trying to cut salary a bit, they still have some money to work with (Kevin Brown's salary, anyone?)
I'll admit that most of this is my response to the huge trades by the Red Sox, Mets, and Toronto. But I really feel that the Yanks need to fill some huge pitching gaps.
Thanks for hearing me vent ;) .
AMYanks
11-25-05, 07:09 PM
I am starting to get agrivated with the lack of action taken by the Yankees thus far this offseason. They have let the best free agent and tradable relievers get away, such as Scott Eyre, Mota, and B.J Ryan. Okay, maybe not the best. But it is clear that there are very few quality relievers left on the market now, and the options are thinning quickly. They need to make some offers to players/teams sooner rather than later considering the small market. Though they are trying to cut salary a bit, they still have some money to work with (Kevin Brown's salary, anyone?)
I'll admit that most of this is my response to the huge trades by the Red Sox, Mets, and Toronto. But I really feel that the Yanks need to fill some huge pitching gaps.
Thanks for hearing me vent ;) .
You can't blame the Yankees for not signing Eyre or Ryan. Eyre wanted no part of the team, and Ryan wanted to close. Ryan also got 5 yrs. at nearly $50M, so Cashman was smart to not match that. If Mota wasn't put into the Beckett deal, it would have been off of the table. Besides, Mota isn't really that great a reliever. He could very likely turn into Felix Rodriguez.
You can't blame the Yankees for not signing Eyre or Ryan. Eyre wanted no part of the team, and Ryan wanted to close. Ryan also got 5 yrs. at nearly $50M, so Cashman was smart to not match that. If Mota wasn't put into the Beckett deal, it would have been off of the table. Besides, Mota isn't really that great a reliever. He could very likely turn into Felix Rodriguez.
Okay. You make good points. But this is mine: the following decent free-agent relievers are....
Billy Wagner
Octavio Dotel
Trevor Hoffman (old? poor closer now?)
Tod Jones
Bob Wickman
Kyle Farnsworth
Tom Gordon
Mike Myers
Al Reyes (surgery, etc.)
Rudy Seanez (who?)
Hector Carrasco (reliever?)
Jim Mecir (just becaue he's a Marlin ;) )
Since half of those choices are closers, the amount of options is slim....
AMYanks
11-25-05, 07:37 PM
Okay. You make good points. But this is mine: the following decent free-agent relievers are....
Billy Wagner
Octavio Dotel
Trevor Hoffman (old? poor closer now?)
Tod Jones
Bob Wickman
Kyle Farnsworth
Tom Gordon
Mike Myers
Al Reyes (surgery, etc.)
Rudy Seanez (who?)
Hector Carrasco (reliever?)
Jim Mecir (just becaue he's a Marlin ;) )
Since half of those choices are closers, the amount of options is slim....
The options may be slim, but there are options none the less. The Yankees could sign a Farnsworth, or Tavarez, and then add a left handed pitcher. A lefty like Ricardo Rincon or Joey Eischen. And while these may not be top-flight relievers, we have to remember that many relievers go up-and-down, from year-to-year.
The best part of this offseason, so far, is hearing Scott Boras whine - caused, in part, by the Yankees refusal to conduct "business as usual" by aggressively pursuing his client Damon. Read what Boras has recently said:
- "If the Yankees are thinking about paying [free agent] Brian Giles to the age of 37, why not Johnny to the age of 37?"
- "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."
- "You get Johnny, and you can put Jeter, who's the best in the business, in the No. 2 spot and suddenly you're forced to pitch to the middle of the Yankees' lineup. And that way, you don't get schooled by the Angels in the playoffs because they walk A-Rod 11 times."
- "I want teams to look at the data and understand what's fair." (Waaaaaa! Waaaaaa!)
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
Good stuff.<!-- end disp_story_with_OAS_ad -->
The best part of this offseason, so far, is hearing Scott Boras whine - caused, in part, by the Yankees refusal to conduct "business as usual" by aggressively pursuing his client Damon. Read what Boras has recently said:
- "If the Yankees are thinking about paying [free agent] Brian Giles to the age of 37, why not Johnny to the age of 37?"
- "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."
- "You get Johnny, and you can put Jeter, who's the best in the business, in the No. 2 spot and suddenly you're forced to pitch to the middle of the Yankees' lineup. And that way, you don't get schooled by the Angels in the playoffs because they walk A-Rod 11 times."
- "I want teams to look at the data and understand what's fair." (Waaaaaa! Waaaaaa!)
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2 ("http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2")
Good stuff.<!-- end disp_story_with_OAS_ad -->
:lol: :lol:
PoughVirginiaYankee
11-26-05, 05:26 PM
The best part of this offseason, so far, is hearing Scott Boras whine - caused, in part, by the Yankees refusal to conduct "business as usual" by aggressively pursuing his client Damon. Read what Boras has recently said:
- "If the Yankees are thinking about paying [free agent] Brian Giles to the age of 37, why not Johnny to the age of 37?"
- "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."
- "You get Johnny, and you can put Jeter, who's the best in the business, in the No. 2 spot and suddenly you're forced to pitch to the middle of the Yankees' lineup. And that way, you don't get schooled by the Angels in the playoffs because they walk A-Rod 11 times."
- "I want teams to look at the data and understand what's fair." (Waaaaaa! Waaaaaa!)
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
Good stuff.<!-- end disp_story_with_OAS_ad -->
That is really funny....unfortunately the Yankees can't get REALLY on the bad side of Boras, because good players still flock to the guy, and there will be a client of his one day that we will want....
nyg02005
11-26-05, 05:45 PM
If the yankees does nothing significant this offseason, they should lower the ticket prices instead of increasing them.
MTYankee23
11-26-05, 05:54 PM
The best part of this offseason, so far, is hearing Scott Boras whine - caused, in part, by the Yankees refusal to conduct "business as usual" by aggressively pursuing his client Damon. Read what Boras has recently said:
- "If the Yankees are thinking about paying [free agent] Brian Giles to the age of 37, why not Johnny to the age of 37?"
- "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."
- "You get Johnny, and you can put Jeter, who's the best in the business, in the No. 2 spot and suddenly you're forced to pitch to the middle of the Yankees' lineup. And that way, you don't get schooled by the Angels in the playoffs because they walk A-Rod 11 times."
- "I want teams to look at the data and understand what's fair." (Waaaaaa! Waaaaaa!)
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
Good stuff.<!-- end disp_story_with_OAS_ad -->
Wouldn't paying Damon till 37 only be a 5 year deal? I thought they were asking for 7. That would be till age 39.
They're looking at Giles because he was the 2nd most productive corner OF in the game last year.
Sadly, Damon wouldn't have helped us in the playoffs last year because none of those games were held at Fenway.
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-26-05, 06:45 PM
The best part of this offseason, so far, is hearing Scott Boras whine - caused, in part, by the Yankees refusal to conduct "business as usual" by aggressively pursuing his client Damon. Read what Boras has recently said:
- "If the Yankees are thinking about paying [free agent] Brian Giles to the age of 37, why not Johnny to the age of 37?"
- "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."
- "You get Johnny, and you can put Jeter, who's the best in the business, in the No. 2 spot and suddenly you're forced to pitch to the middle of the Yankees' lineup. And that way, you don't get schooled by the Angels in the playoffs because they walk A-Rod 11 times."
- "I want teams to look at the data and understand what's fair." (Waaaaaa! Waaaaaa!)
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTImZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MjIzNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
Good stuff.<!-- end disp_story_with_OAS_ad -->
Hear ya go Boras:
Giles Career OPS+: 146
Damon's Career OPS+: 102
Not to mention Giles is a better defender at this point...
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:20 PM
Hear ya go Boras:
Giles Career OPS+: 146
Damon's Career OPS+: 102
Not to mention Giles is a better defender at this point...
If damon accepts the same contract as being mentioned to giles, I will take Damon. Damon can help the team more than giles.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:20 PM
If damon accepts the same contract as being mentioned to giles, I will take Damon. Damon can help the team more than giles.
Please explain this one.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:25 PM
Please explain this one.
If damon accepts the mentioned 3 yrs for about 11 million a yr, I will take damon. Damon is a CF and a leadoff hitter. I still think that damon can cover more grounds than giles and he will not have transition bec. he is already in the AL. My only concern with damon is his arm but in the championship yrs, bernie also did not have a good arm. The only way that bernie is not playing is bec. he can not cover a lot of grounds anymore
38Special
11-26-05, 07:30 PM
I would also take 4 years of Damon over 3 years of Giles. Damon fills a big need in center, and is not likely to decline that much by age 35/36 (which is where Giles is now anyway). Giles is a better hitter but is another corner outfielder and not a young one at that.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:36 PM
If damon accepts the mentioned 3 yrs for about 11 million a yr, I will take damon. Damon is a CF and a leadoff hitter. I still think that damon can cover more grounds than giles and he will not have transition bec. he is already in the AL. My only concern with damon is his arm but in the championship yrs, bernie also did not have a good arm. The only way that bernie is not playing is bec. he can not cover a lot of grounds anymore
Why is Damon being a leadoff hitter important? Jeter is not only better at that position, but that is where Jeter is best.
Damon may cover more ground than Giles, but the fact of the matter is Giles is an incredibly better hitter, and that makes up for any small defensive difference between them.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:40 PM
I would also take 4 years of Damon over 3 years of Giles. Damon fills a big need in center, and is not likely to decline that much by age 35/36 (which is where Giles is now anyway). Giles is a better hitter but is another corner outfielder and not a young one at that.
Damon will likely decline quicker than Giles. Damon relies more on his speed, and legs. Giles will continue to have a good eye, and get on base in the next 2-3 years. As Damon declines to a .265, .270 hitter, his OBP will barely be .330. Giles, as a .265, .270 hitter, will still have an OBP of .380+.
It is true that, defensively, Damon is better (although Damon's pathetic arm is close to Bernie's), but Giles is certainly not "bad", and the fact that he is such a better hitter makes up for the defensive difference.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:42 PM
Likewise, we cannot assume that if Giles is acquired, that guarantees that he or Matsui would be the starting CFer. It could mean that Giles plays RF (with Sheffield as the DH), and a Wilkerson or Michaels, for example, is acquired to play CF.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:43 PM
Why is Damon being a leadoff hitter important? Jeter is not only better at that position, but that is where Jeter is best.
Damon may cover more ground than Giles, but the fact of the matter is Giles is an incredibly better hitter, and that makes up for any small defensive difference between them.
Jeter is good at the no.2 spot bec. of his inside out swing. Jeter strikes out a lot and swings at the first pitch a lot while damon works the count. Jeter was not the leadoff hitter for all the championship yrs.
We do not need a better hitter, we need people to get on base and create problem for other teams. We have a lot of rbi players like sheff, arod, giambi, matsui. We need a CF who can at least track those balls in the gap and minimize the ball falling in front of our OF.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:45 PM
Likewise, we cannot assume that if Giles is acquired, that guarantees that he or Matsui would be the starting CFer. It could mean that Giles plays RF (with Sheffield as the DH), and a Wilkerson or Michaels, for example, is acquired to play CF.
If we get wilkerson then we do not need both(damon or giles). Even michaels is not a better option in CF than damon.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:50 PM
Jeter is good at the no.2 spot bec. of his inside out swing. Jeter strikes out a lot and swings at the first pitch a lot while damon works the count. Jeter was not the leadoff hitter for all the championship yrs.
We do not a better hitter, we need people to get on base and create problem for other teams. We have a lot of rbi players like sheff, arod, giambi, matsui. We need a CF who can at least track those balls in the gap and minimize the ball falling in front of our OF.
Jeter: .314 / .386 / .461 (23 SB, 6 CS avg. per season)
Damon : .290 / .353 / .431 (29 SB, 8 CS avg. per season)
Explain to me how Damon is a better leadoff hitter?
During the championship years, we had Knoblauch, whose OBP was basically as good as Jeter's. Damon's OBP is not NEARLY as good as Jeter's.
Giles gets on base better than nearly anyone in baseball, save for a few.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:51 PM
If we get wilkerson then we do not need both(damon or giles). Even michaels is not a better option in CF than damon.
Michaels at a low price is better than Damon getting guaranteed $11M-$12M over 4 years.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:55 PM
Jeter: .314 / .386 / .461 (23 SB, 6 CS avg. per season)
Damon : .290 / .353 / .431 (29 SB, 8 CS avg. per season)
Explain to me how Damon is a better leadoff hitter?
During the championship years, we had Knoblauch, whose OBP was basically as good as Jeter's. Damon's OBP is not NEARLY as good as Jeter's.
Giles gets on base better than nearly anyone in baseball, save for a few.
You forgot to mentioned that knobby was the best in working the counts which is another damon's strength. As I said, we are a better team with damon than giles if you put together the things that they will contribute to the team and taken into accounts the current needs of the team.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 07:57 PM
Michaels at a low price is better than Damon getting guaranteed $11M-$12M over 4 years.
You forgot the premise of the argument is 3 yr 11 millions per yr. And you also mention that aside from giles, we will get michaels. Even with michaels only, I will still take damon at 3 yr 11 millions per yr than michaels.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 07:58 PM
You forgot to mentioned that knobby was the best in working the counts which is another damon's strength. As I said, we are a better team with damon than giles if you put together the things that they will contribute to the team and taken into accounts the current needs of the team.
I don't understand how acquiring a lesser talent improves our team, regardless of need. But, that's your opinion.
BTW, Jeter saw 3.82 pitches per plate appearence (P/PA) in 2005. Damon saw 3.72 P/PA. Jeter works the count better, too.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:00 PM
You forgot the premise of the argument is 3 yr 11 millions per yr. And you also mention that aside from giles, we will get michaels. Even with michaels only, I will still take damon at 3 yr 11 millions per yr than michaels.
Fine, 3 yr. at $11M per. It's still too much.
I didn't say that we will definitely get Michaels (don't forget Wilkerson, who is also a possibility, and is a no-brainer over Damon), but there is a possibility that Giles will be acquired to play RF, so Sheffield can be moved to DH, where he belongs.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 08:03 PM
I don't understand how acquiring a lesser talent improves our team, regardless of need. But, that's your opinion.
BTW, Jeter saw 3.82 pitches per plate appearence (P/PA) in 2005. Damon saw 3.72 P/PA. Jeter works the count better, too.
It is not only talents that wins, if it is then we should have won 120 games in the 2005 season. A double that should have been caught can cause a team 1 or 2 or even an inside the park HR(remember cabrera).
nyg02005
11-26-05, 08:04 PM
Fine, 3 yr. at $11M per. It's still too much.
I didn't say that we will definitely get Michaels (don't forget Wilkerson, who is also a possibility, and is a no-brainer over Damon), but there is a possibility that Giles will be acquired to play RF, so Sheffield can be moved to DH, where he belongs.
again you exclude the sentence that I said if we get wilkerson we do not need damon or giles.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:08 PM
It is not only talents that wins, if it is then we should have won 120 games in the 2005 season. A double that should have been caught can cause a team 1 or 2 or even an inside the park HR(remember cabrera).
You should still acquire the better players, if you can. You don't build your team with lesser players. Damon is not nearly as good a player as Giles. And the only advantage he has is that he is a better fielder, but not nearly good enough to offset Giles' huge offensive advantage. Giles + Michaels/Wilkerson is extraordinarily better than solely Damon.
terminator
11-26-05, 08:10 PM
I don't understand how acquiring a lesser talent improves our team, regardless of need. But, that's your opinion.
BTW, Jeter saw 3.82 pitches per plate appearence (P/PA) in 2005. Damon saw 3.72 P/PA. Jeter works the count better, too.
Just curious - what were Damon's P/PA numbers from 2002-2004 versus Jeter's?
OMG for the last time, Jeter is a BETTER leadoff hitter than Damon!!!
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:11 PM
again you exclude the sentence that I said if we get wilkerson we do not need damon or giles.
Acquiring Wilkerson does not, by any means, rule out Giles. If we were to obtain Giles, after we've already acquired Wilkerson, it just improves the defense even more, by removing Sheffield.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 08:12 PM
You should still acquire the better players, if you can. You don't build your team with lesser players. Damon is not nearly as good a player as Giles. And the only advantage he has is that he is a better fielder, but not nearly good enough to offset Giles' huge offensive advantage. Giles + Michaels/Wilkerson is extraordinarily better than solely Damon.
To make this discussion more interesting then i would suggest damon + overbay. they are better than Giles + Michaels. Again If we get wilkerson we do not need damon or giles.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:13 PM
Just curious - what were Damon's P/PA numbers from 2002-2004 versus Jeter's?
Damon's were better, by a lot (of course, you already know this, as you wouldn't have asked it if you didn't). But a lot of that has to do with Jeter being injured in 2003, and being off to a HORRIBLE start in 2004.
Perhaps Damon, over the course of the past few years, has been better. But it doesn't overrule the large OBP deficit.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:14 PM
To make this discussion more interesting then i would suggest damon + overbay. they are better than Giles + Michaels. Again If we get wilkerson we do not need damon or giles.
Overbay would cost top level prospects. Michaels will not.
And, by acquiring Overbay, we move Giambi to DH. Giambi is an incredibly worse hitter from the DH position then he is at 1B.
I would also be willing to say a Giles/Michaels combination is better than a Damon/Overbay combination. Giles/Michaels combined OPS+ is 259, Damon/Overbay is 226. Factor in that Overbay would cost much more to acquire, and would also make Giambi a lesser hitter. And, Giles/Michaels would also move Sheffield to DH, which improves our OF defense (not just by putting those two players in).
Agreed on all points.
As do I.
No way Cash flops 1st yr at the wheel...
nyg02005
11-26-05, 08:23 PM
Overbay would cost top level prospects. Michaels will not.
And, by acquiring Overbay, we move Giambi to DH. Giambi is an incredibly worse hitter from the DH position then he is at 1B.
Ok. I give up. Let us get damon and giles then. But of course it will not be enough without the relief pitcher.
I am not into stats, so I am wondering how many times did ortiz and ramirez came to bat with runners on and compare that to arod and sheff or matsui and sheff? You are good at stats so maybe you can find it out.
terminator
11-26-05, 08:29 PM
Damon's were better, by a lot (of course, you already know this, as you wouldn't have asked it if you didn't). But a lot of that has to do with Jeter being injured in 2003, and being off to a HORRIBLE start in 2004.
Perhaps Damon, over the course of the past few years, has been better. But it doesn't overrule the large OBP deficit.
Actually, I knew his were better - but I actually don't know the exact numbers.
I remember this coming up earlier - and I think the consensus was that Damon's "lack of patience" this year could be attributed to the number of nagging injuries he picked up over the course of 2005. And maybe the chase for the batting title also had something to do with it.
Jeter is a better hitter of course - no two ways about it. IMO, it wouldn't be the worst thing if either of them batted first.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 08:29 PM
Ok. I give up. Let us get damon and giles then. But of course it will not be enough without the relief pitcher.
I am not into stats, so I am wondering how many times did ortiz and ramirez came to bat with runners on and compare that to arod and sheff or matsui and sheff? You are good at stats so maybe you can find it out.
I wouldn't want BOTH Giles and Damon.
Ramirez/Ortiz - 569 ABs w/runners on
A-Rod/Sheff - 593 ABs w/runners on
Matsui/Sheff - 611 ABs w/runners on
panicfan
11-26-05, 08:50 PM
So far so good.
It looks like the Yanks either address needs through trades, or they don't.
The F.A. market is very weak.
Stick to your guns Cash!
surge511
11-26-05, 10:04 PM
To make this discussion more interesting then i would suggest damon + overbay. they are better than Giles + Michaels. Again If we get wilkerson we do not need damon or giles.
Do you want to do Duncan for Overbay straight up? Because that would be what it takes at least. I might make that trade, it lets Giambi be the fulltime DH, and it gives us a good 1Bman offensively and defensively.
As for Damon/Giles, I think both those players would be good stopgaps. But that's all they are - stopgaps. 3 year deal to Giles, 4 MAYBE to Damon. That gives our minor leaguers time to develop, and we can then assess later what we have in them. However, I would not offer any longterm deals to an OFer over 30.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 10:15 PM
Do you want to do Duncan for Overbay straight up? Because that would be what it takes at least. I might make that trade, it lets Giambi be the fulltime DH, and it gives us a good 1Bman offensively and defensively.
Is the defensive upgrade worth making Giambi an extremely worse hitter, though? As a 1B over the past 4 years, Giambi is roughly a 1.060 OPS guy. As a DH, he's about .780. That's a big drop.
Duncan's ceiling is too high for me to make that trade, in all honesty.
terminator
11-26-05, 10:20 PM
The one trade I thought Cashman could have done was the trade with the White Sox for
Rowand. Yankees give up Sheffield, and get Rowand and prospects. They spin off those prospects for Overbay. Then they sign Giles. The Yankees lineup:
Jeter
Matsui
A-Rod
Giambi
Giles
Overbay
Posada
Rowand
Cano
(in no particular order)
Salary wise, Sheff's 2006 salary would be a "bit" less than Overbay+Rowand+Giles,
but you would have taken care of 2 extra holes for that amount.
If they want Michaels now, they still can get this done by trading Sheff. It seems they want to hold on to Wang, Cano and the top prospects. Plenty of teams need a hitter like Sheff - and with just one year left on his contract, I would guess teams would want him in return for prospects - and those prospects could be used in other deals.
I know noone wants to trade Sheff, but if trading him means that they are able to get good players for CF and 1B (and sign Giles), the Yankees have a much better lineup.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 10:24 PM
The one trade I thought Cashman could have done was the trade with the White Sox for
Rowand. Yankees give up Sheffield, and get Rowand and prospects. They spin off those prospects for Overbay. Then they sign Giles. The Yankees lineup:
Jeter
Matsui
A-Rod
Giambi
Giles
Overbay
Posada
Rowand
Cano
(in no particular order)
Salary wise, Sheff's 2006 salary would be a "bit" less than Overbay+Rowand+Giles,
but you would have taken care of 2 extra holes for that amount.
If they want Michaels now, they still can get this done by trading Sheff. It seems they want to hold on to Wang, Cano and the top prospects. Plenty of teams need a hitter like Sheff - and with just one year left on his contract, I would guess teams would want him in return for prospects - and those prospects could be used in other deals.
I know noone wants to trade Sheff, but if trading him means that they are able to get good players for CF and 1B (and sign Giles), the Yankees have a much better lineup.
That would've been a good plan, but again, I'm not sure if I want to move Giambi to DH for the majority of the season, since he is a totally different hitter when he DH's.
(Oh yeah, and Giles hits #2. I know you said in no particular order, but that's just a pet peeve of mine ;) )
terminator
11-26-05, 10:30 PM
That would've been a good plan, but again, I'm not sure if I want to move Giambi to DH for the majority of the season, since he is a totally different hitter when he DH's.
(Oh yeah, and Giles hits #2. I know you said in no particular order, but that's just a pet peeve of mine ;) )
Yeah, I was pretty much just listing the players in the lineup.
Regarding Giambi's Jerkyll and Hyde imitation when he oscillates between DH and 1B -
then that can be addressed by making Overbay the DH, right? That shouldn't be a problem, right? Sure, you would have the superior defender being the DH - but that would probably be the case no matter whom the Yankees signed.
My main point was that if the Yankees want to be part of the cool crowd :) and not be left out of trades, they are going to have to be willing to trade someone of value.
If you take Wang, Cano, Hughes, Duncan - and then Sheff - out of the equation, you have a bunch of players who for one reason or the other are untradeable.
AMYanks
11-26-05, 10:33 PM
Yeah, I was pretty much just listing the players in the lineup.
Regarding Giambi's Jerkyll and Hyde imitation when he oscillates between DH and 1B -
then that can be addressed by making Overbay the DH, right? That shouldn't be a problem, right? Sure, you would have the superior defender being the DH - but that would probably be the case no matter whom the Yankees signed.
My main point was that if the Yankees want to be part of the cool crowd :) and not be left out of trades, they are going to have to be willing to trade someone of value.
If you take Wang, Cano, Hughes, Duncan - and then Sheff - out of the equation, you have a bunch of players who for one reason or the other are untradeable.
You could put Overbay at DH, but I would just as soon keep Duncan.
nyg02005
11-26-05, 10:50 PM
I wouldn't want BOTH Giles and Damon.
Ramirez/Ortiz - 569 ABs w/runners on
A-Rod/Sheff - 593 ABs w/runners on
Matsui/Sheff - 611 ABs w/runners on
thanks for the stat.
DON'T KNOCK THE ROCK
11-26-05, 11:29 PM
That is really funny....unfortunately the Yankees can't get REALLY on the bad side of Boras, because good players still flock to the guy, and there will be a client of his one day that we will want....
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yes, like Carlos Beltran if and when the Mets decide they are losing money with the way they've been spending it and in order to cut their losses, trade Beltran to us at $14 million a year while they pay the rest. (I don't believe Beltran will ever be that good at Shea. It's too big of a park for him to hit well in. See: Bobby Murcer.)
As for the offseason, well, I really hope they sign Brian Giles and Farnsworth. I also don't want to see a lot of older players return like Bernie and Sierra. I want to see more young blood on the Yankees, not these over the hill guys who hit .231. A younger player can do the same for a lot less money.
I had hoped we might sign Ryan but not for $47 million which is just plain crazy. How many games is Toronto going to have a lead in that Ryan can save? 13? It's crazy. And if Gordon insists on 3 years, I say let him walk.
So far, so good, but I'll feel a lot better if we land Giles. Picture a lineup of: Jeter, Giles, ARod, Giambi, Sheff (DH), Matsui, Cano, Posada, Crosby. Good offense and good defense. Now all we need is some decent relief pitching to go with it.
DiMaggio5CF
11-27-05, 12:58 PM
As for the offseason, well, I really hope they sign Brian Giles and Farnsworth. I also don't want to see a lot of older players return like Bernie and Sierra. I want to see more young blood on the Yankees, not these over the hill guys who hit .231. A younger player can do the same for a lot less money.
Brian Giles, 34, is not "young blood" and will not come cheap. It's not even a sure thing that he's willing to play in New York.
montrealer
11-27-05, 02:01 PM
Making moves for the sake of making moves have never benefitted the Yankees.
hardrain
11-27-05, 03:50 PM
Of course November is too early to answer this question. But, in general, I am glad that Cashman is not trying to simply outdo the Red Sox or Mets.
He is taking the longer view. And that's all right with me.
What offseason? Are the Yanks even involved in this offseason other than "assessing and evaluating"? They can't even get Brian Giles on the phone. BJ Ryan was in NY and they couldn't even get him to stop by YS.
The sux get Beckett and Mota and are in the hunt for Billy Wagner. Excuse me, standing pat is fine if you're the WS champs, but the Yanks couldn't even get out of round 1 past the Angels. And wasn't '05 supposed to be the year the Yanks got off the canvass and atoned for the '04 ALCS debacle?
It's looking a lot like the team without the GM has a far better plan than the one with the GM. JMHO.
What offseason? Are the Yanks even involved in this offseason other than "assessing and evaluating"? They can't even get Brian Giles on the phone. BJ Ryan was in NY and they couldn't even get him to stop by YS.
The sux get Beckett and Mota and are in the hunt for Billy Wagner. Excuse me, standing pat is fine if you're the WS champs, but the Yanks couldn't even get out of round 1 past the Angels. And wasn't '05 supposed to be the year the Yanks got off the canvass and atoned for the '04 ALCS debacle?
It's looking a lot like the team without the GM has a far better plan than the one with the GM. JMHO.
Yeah, next time people don't want to visit us/sign with us/trade with us, we should just MAKE them like a real World Series champion. Im sure brass knuckles or firehoses or Chuck Norris will do the trick.
NewEraYanks2527
11-27-05, 08:57 PM
hey Dogg
IMHO if Carlos Beltran really wanted to be a Yankee then he could have signed for a lot less and become a Yankee, it comes down to money.
What offseason? Are the Yanks even involved in this offseason other than "assessing and evaluating"? They can't even get Brian Giles on the phone. BJ Ryan was in NY and they couldn't even get him to stop by YS.
The sux get Beckett and Mota and are in the hunt for Billy Wagner. Excuse me, standing pat is fine if you're the WS champs, but the Yanks couldn't even get out of round 1 past the Angels. And wasn't '05 supposed to be the year the Yanks got off the canvass and atoned for the '04 ALCS debacle?
It's looking a lot like the team without the GM has a far better plan than the one with the GM. JMHO.
:clap: :clap:
I can't believe Cashman didn't pull the trigger on the Wang and Cano for Pierre deal. And even though BJ didn't want to close, we should've atleast given him a free tour of YS, you know just incase the Blue Jays didn't insanely overpay for him.
And I definitley agree with you about the getting ousted in the first round thing, I mean we should always build our team based on what happens in the playoffs (A-rod and Matsui need to be shown the door). And please don't get me started on teh sux getting Beckett and Mota. BECKETT WON THE WS MVP!!! I feel like we're screwd for next year. I can't even imagine us winning more than 60 games. Fu*k you Cashman!!!11!!11!!!1!
hey Dogg
IMHO if Carlos Beltran really wanted to be a Yankee then he could have signed for a lot less and become a Yankee, it comes down to money.
Correct me if I'm wrong...Beltran signed with the muts for a lot more than he asked the Yanks for...However, this is where I differ with most on this board...
I don't give a rat's ass about payroll. I think it's great the Yanks choose to reinvest their profits into the team, but to pass on a young franchise CF last year and a young franchise pitcher this year tells me something is up in the Bronx. And don't tell me you'd really rather see Bubba in cf or Jared Wright in the starting rotation because they're cheaper.
:clap: :clap:
I can't believe Cashman didn't pull the trigger on the Wang and Cano for Pierre deal. And even though BJ didn't want to close, we should've atleast given him a free tour of YS, you know just incase the Blue Jays didn't insanely overpay for him.
And I definitley agree with you about the getting ousted in the first round thing, I mean we should always build our team based on what happens in the playoffs (A-rod and Matsui need to be shown the door). And please don't get me started on teh sux getting Beckett and Mota. BECKETT WON THE WS MVP!!! I feel like we're screwd for next year. I can't even imagine us winning more than 60 games. Fu*k you Cashman!!!11!!11!!!1!
You're right dude! Who needs Cashman when we got you! I'll bet you get off staring at your own picture on a box of Wheaties! Yeah...lets do it your way and field a team of cheap minor leaguers! You're Exec of the Year!
You're right dude! Who needs Cashman when we got you! I'll bet you get off staring at your own picture on a box of Wheaties! Yeah...lets do it your way and field a team of cheap minor leaguers! You're Exec of the Year!
As my first move I'll sign an overrated and overpriced franchise CF and trade top prospects for a franchise pitcher who's been on the DL nine times in four years and had a 4.30 road ERA in the NL. Brilliant!!
NewEraYanks2527
11-27-05, 09:30 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong...Beltran signed with the muts for a lot more than he asked the Yanks for...However, this is where I differ with most on this board...
I don't give a rat's ass about payroll. I think it's great the Yanks choose to reinvest their profits into the team, but to pass on a young franchise CF last year and a young franchise pitcher this year tells me something is up in the Bronx. And don't tell me you'd really rather see Bubba in cf or Jared Wright in the starting rotation because they're cheaper.
All I'm saying is that if Beltran REALLY wanted to play CF so badly for the Yankees last year he would have taken alot less money. Money talks and bull................ walks, Beltran was not worth "the discount" price he was giving the Yankees. If he wanted to play here so badly he'd taken a real discount.
Archer1979
11-27-05, 11:53 PM
Of course November is too early to answer this question. But, in general, I am glad that Cashman is not trying to simply outdo the Red Sox or Mets.
He is taking the longer view. And that's all right with me.
That, and the perception that the best free agents are disappearing is simply not true.
NY's needs are center fielder, bullpen, and possibly another starter.
There are four center-fielder's on the market:
Johnny Damon
Kenny Lofton
Bernie Williams
Preston Wilson
There's a lot of interest in Brian Giles converting from a corner outfield slot to center field. The argument being that he would create more runs than he costs by being out of position. In any case, he's still available, if not receptive to making the switch. In looking at the players available in right and left field, only two are under 30.
In short, there's not a lot out there for teams looking to get younger.
There's still the Winter Meetings, not to mention the next wave of players that get freed up that are arbitration-eligible that become non-tendered.
Still plenty of time.
I'm not even going to list the relief pitchers still on the market, but here they are:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?positionId=0
The one name that dove off the page at me was Julian Tavarez. Other than being a spaz, is there any reason he's not getting interest from NY?
yankswn23
11-28-05, 12:14 PM
Ok here is your 2006 Lineup this is my prediction, I think we will sign Damon or Giles, Damon will play LF and leadoff Giles will play LF and will bat 7th after Giambi and Jeter will leadoff, switching Cano batting 2nd, Jeter at ss batting 2nd, Arod batting 3rd and playing 3rd,sheff, cleanup and in RF, CF matsui batting 5th, giambi batting 6th at 1b or DH, Cano batting 7th playing 2nd, Bernie Williams batting 8th and DH or Posoda batting 8th and C, and either Posoda batting 9th and C, or Andy Phillips at 1b batting 9th. I also think crosby will get some time in Right with Sheff as the DH.
yankswn23
11-28-05, 12:16 PM
Also dont forget the yanks might try to make a move for hunter, since this is his last year under contract.
I Love Wang
11-28-05, 12:58 PM
Ok here is your 2006 Lineup this is my prediction, I think we will sign Damon or Giles, Damon will play LF and leadoff Giles will play LF and will bat 7th after Giambi and Jeter will leadoff, switching Cano batting 2nd, Jeter at ss batting 2nd, Arod batting 3rd and playing 3rd,sheff, cleanup and in RF, CF matsui batting 5th, giambi batting 6th at 1b or DH, Cano batting 7th playing 2nd, Bernie Williams batting 8th and DH or Posoda batting 8th and C, and either Posoda batting 9th and C, or Andy Phillips at 1b batting 9th. I also think crosby will get some time in Right with Sheff as the DH.
What?
I think we should trade Cano, Wang and Bubba for Pujols and make him play CF.
I must admit that I am very frustrated that the Front Office hasn't gotten their act together yet. I am willing to wait until after the winter meetings to see some big signings but where are the little ones that we really need?
No backup catcher
No relief help
No bench
Waiting until January will not improve our ability to attract FAs. It is a buyers market out there and we can't let these holes linger through New Years.
NewEraYanks2527
11-28-05, 02:04 PM
What?
ditto
Ok here is your 2006 Lineup this is my prediction, I think we will sign Damon or Giles, Damon will play LF and leadoff Giles will play LF and will bat 7th after Giambi and Jeter will leadoff, switching Cano batting 2nd, Jeter at ss batting 2nd, Arod batting 3rd and playing 3rd,sheff, cleanup and in RF, CF matsui batting 5th, giambi batting 6th at 1b or DH, Cano batting 7th playing 2nd, Bernie Williams batting 8th and DH or Posoda batting 8th and C, and either Posoda batting 9th and C, or Andy Phillips at 1b batting 9th. I also think crosby will get some time in Right with Sheff as the DH.
All this post is missing is a sh*t load of different colored fonts and no spaces between words.
AMYanks
11-28-05, 02:44 PM
I must admit that I am very frustrated that the Front Office hasn't gotten their act together yet. I am willing to wait until after the winter meetings to see some big signings but where are the little ones that we really need?
No backup catcher
No relief help
No bench
Waiting until January will not improve our ability to attract FAs. It is a buyers market out there and we can't let these holes linger through New Years.
We haven't even gone through the winter meetings yet. There is plenty of time, and plenty of valuable options left.
38Special
11-28-05, 03:55 PM
I love how people are panicing
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 03:57 PM
I love how people are panicing
Yep.
And it's not just fans panicking, the FO's clearly have, too.
Thankfully, as a fan of the Yankees, our FO has not reacted in kind.
JerkStore
11-28-05, 04:02 PM
What offseason? Are the Yanks even involved in this offseason other than "assessing and evaluating"? They can't even get Brian Giles on the phone. BJ Ryan was in NY and they couldn't even get him to stop by YS.
The sux get Beckett and Mota and are in the hunt for Billy Wagner. Excuse me, standing pat is fine if you're the WS champs, but the Yanks couldn't even get out of round 1 past the Angels. And wasn't '05 supposed to be the year the Yanks got off the canvass and atoned for the '04 ALCS debacle?
It's looking a lot like the team without the GM has a far better plan than the one with the GM. JMHO.
I couldn't agree more. It seems as though the yanks didn't get the memo that the hot stove has begun. The rest of the league is passing them by. I am all for being cautious, but there comes a time when you gotta get in the mix so as not to get outdone and surpassed by the more aggressive teams.
Yes, yes, i know, it is not even December yet, but moves are happening, and if the yankees don't get involved soon, they will end up running the same team out to the field as they did in '05 (minus tom gordon), and that team was just not very good (dispite the brief flicker of a playoff apperance).
38Special
11-28-05, 04:06 PM
Yep.
And it's not just fans panicking, the FO's clearly have, too.
Thankfully, as a fan of the Yankees, our FO has not reacted in kind.
Isn't it amazing? Maybe it's because i'm only 20 years old, but as long as i've been alive, its always been about making a splash and brash decisions. They (and by they i mean Cash) seem to be realizing this year that the pieces are in place, and only minor changes need to be put in place for the championship team to come together next year. Hell, the move for Guidry and Kerrigan probably will have more of an affect on this team in the long run than signing Damon and Ryan to a zillion dollars per 10 years
Thank god Cash is in charge
MTYankee23
11-28-05, 04:09 PM
Isn't it amazing? Maybe it's because i'm only 20 years old, but as long as i've been alive, its always been about making a splash and brash decisions. They seem to be realizing this year that the pieces are in place, and only minor changes need to be put in place for the championship team to come together next year. Hell, the move for Guidry and Kerrigan probably will have more of an affect on this team in the long run than signing Damon and Ryan to a zillion dollars per 10 years
Completely agree with this as well. The toughest part to building a contender is finding the core guys. We have those right now. ARod, Jeter, Rivera, Johnson, Matsui, Sheffield, Giambi, Posada, Cano
Right now we just have to hope that we can find 5 quality starters out of RJ, Moose, Chacon, Pavano, Wang, Wright, and Small.
Big Daddy
11-28-05, 04:28 PM
Isn't it amazing? Maybe it's because i'm only 20 years old, but as long as i've been alive, its always been about making a splash and brash decisions. They (and by they i mean Cash) seem to be realizing this year that the pieces are in place, and only minor changes need to be put in place for the championship team to come together next year. Hell, the move for Guidry and Kerrigan probably will have more of an affect on this team in the long run than signing Damon and Ryan to a zillion dollars per 10 years
Thank god Cash is in charge
We're dooooomed this offseason!
rightfielder21
11-28-05, 04:31 PM
I love how people are panicing
Same here... This type of panic usually doesn't hit until mid-May... :)
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 04:33 PM
Isn't it amazing? Maybe it's because i'm only 20 years old, but as long as i've been alive, its always been about making a splash and brash decisions. They (and by they i mean Cash) seem to be realizing this year that the pieces are in place, and only minor changes need to be put in place for the championship team to come together next year. Hell, the move for Guidry and Kerrigan probably will have more of an affect on this team in the long run than signing Damon and Ryan to a zillion dollars per 10 years
Thank god Cash is in charge
I'm curious of everyone that is throwing their arms up in the air:
Which moves that have been made do you wish the Yankees had done?
A) Wang, Cano, etc. for Beckett and Lowell
B) Billy Wagner, 4 years, $43 million
C) BJ Ryan, 5 years, $47 million
D) Scott Eyre, 2 years, $11 million
E) Bobby Howry, 3 years, $12 million
F) Hughes etc. for Delgado
JeterRodriguezSheff
11-28-05, 04:38 PM
I'm curious of everyone that is throwing their arms up in the air:
Which moves that have been made do you wish the Yankees had done?
A) Wang, Cano, etc. for Beckett and Lowell
No
B) Billy Wagner, 4 years, $43 million
NO
C) BJ Ryan, 5 years, $47 million
NO
D) Scott Eyre, 2 years, $11 million
Maybe as its only a 2 year contract and we need bullpen help
E) Bobby Howry, 3 years, $12 million
NO
F) Hughes etc. for Delgado
Hell NO
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 04:40 PM
I don't feel like Cash has been agressive enough with some of the relief pitchers available. I wouldn't have given Ryan what he got, but Howry should have been contacted and Eyre got too much, but the Yanks should have atleast tried. I'm ok with giving Matt Smith a try at some point, but proctor to me is a waste of time...you can't teach a fastball to move. I want Chris Hammond, but Torre doesn't like him or use him right and he won't want to come back after last time anyway. Farnsworth/Gordon or I guess Farnsworth/Tavarez would be an ok start, but I think the pen is our biggest need for improvement.
I'd take Giles at 10 mill for 3 years, but I'd play him in Right alot with sheff DHing and Thompson in CF. The fact that the Yankees are even entertaining the Idea of Crosby in CF(I don't believe they are serious) scares me.
I give Cash a 6.5 so far. I like the mindset of getting away from what we've done in recent off seasons, but in reality he really hasn't done a thing.
MTYankee23
11-28-05, 04:41 PM
I'm curious of everyone that is throwing their arms up in the air:
Which moves that have been made do you wish the Yankees had done?
A) Wang, Cano, etc. for Beckett and Lowell
B) Billy Wagner, 4 years, $43 million
C) BJ Ryan, 5 years, $47 million
D) Scott Eyre, 2 years, $11 million
E) Bobby Howry, 3 years, $12 million
F) Hughes etc. for Delgado
G) None of the above. If anything, I think the offseason has been somewhat encouraging. I'll be even more encouraged when Johnny Damon signs elsewhere. Sure, trading for Beckett was a good move for the Sox, but it wouldn't have been for us. Was everyone happier last year when about a week from today we had already signed Wright, Womack, and Pavano? Traded for F-Rod and Stanton?
Thus far, we've shown interest in the 2 guys we should have Giles and Ryan. We can't stick a gun to their head and make them come here. And even if we could, we wouldn't be well served handing out a 5 yr./47 million contract for a guy the Yankees and Red Sox have both pummelled.
Some other doors have also opened this offseason, the Phillies got a CF, so that may make Jason Michaels available, Milton Bradley may be non-tendered. Hopefully Cashman is following the Wilkerson situation closely (and if they manage to sign Burnett, I bet that makes him even more available).
If people realized how many solid bullpens are comprised of Rule V and NT's they'd be less panicked.
AMYanks
11-28-05, 04:44 PM
I'm curious of everyone that is throwing their arms up in the air:
Which moves that have been made do you wish the Yankees had done?
A) Wang, Cano, etc. for Beckett and Lowell
B) Billy Wagner, 4 years, $43 million
C) BJ Ryan, 5 years, $47 million
D) Scott Eyre, 2 years, $11 million
E) Bobby Howry, 3 years, $12 million
F) Hughes etc. for Delgado
Each one of those options make me feel ill. Except, maybe D, although Eyre was dead set against playing here, and he wasn't a realistic option.
Seamonk
11-28-05, 04:45 PM
You'd like to see some signs of consciousness from the front office.
Look at the day Omar Minaya had.
He held a major press conference, he signed Billy Wagner, and he acquired Tike Redman.
Splashy move, big move, little move.
It doesn't have to be a blockbuster.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 04:46 PM
If people realized how many solid bullpens are comprised of Rule V and NT's they'd be less panicked.I don't see the Yankees getting as lucky with picks like that. I like Matt Smith and I think Cox may be ready at some point this year, but going into the season with Rivera, Wright, Proctor, Sturtze, and Small would scare the hell out of me.
JfromJersey
11-28-05, 04:48 PM
I'm going to sleep. Will someone wake me when the Yanks do ANYTHING.
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 04:48 PM
You'd like to see some signs of consciousness from the front office.
Look at the day Omar Minaya had.
He held a major press conference, he signed Billy Wagner, and he acquired Tike Redman.
Splashy move, big move, little move.
It doesn't have to be a blockbuster.
You must be channelling Big Stein right now.
Make moves for the sake of press conferences?
Minaya's day was for sh*t, to be honest. He's handicapped his team for the forseeable future, albeit with good players...and 80 career OPS_+ Tike Redman.
MTYankee23
11-28-05, 04:49 PM
I don't see the Yankees getting as lucky with picks like that. I like Matt Smith and I think Cox may be ready at some point this year, but going into the season with Rivera, Wright, Proctor, Sturtze, and Small would scare the hell out of me.
They could also use TJ Beam and/or Steven White by the end of the summer. This becomes infinitely more difficult if they have a couple multi-year, big dollar reliever contracts hanging around the bullpen.
Another guy who I don't think costs any draft picks to sign, but could be worth taking an inexpensive flyer on would be Tony Armas, although some schmuck team will probably sign him to be their ace.
Seamonk
11-28-05, 04:51 PM
You must be channelling Big Stein right now.
Make moves for the sake of press conferences?
Minaya's day was for sh*t, to be honest. He's handicapped his team for the forseeable future, albeit with good players...and 80 career OPS_+ Tike Redman.
The point is the Mets seem able to multi-task, while the Yankee fans seem proud of every day the front office doesn't do anything stupid...
rightfielder21
11-28-05, 04:51 PM
Make moves for the sake of press conferences?
That seems to be the mentality...
AMYanks
11-28-05, 04:53 PM
The point is the Mets seem able to multi-task, while the Yankee fans seem proud of every day the front office doesn't do anything stupid...
So we should dramatically overspend, and sacrifice the future? No thanks. Let Omar have his fun. Yankees don't have to join him.
MTYankee23
11-28-05, 04:55 PM
We made moves for press conferences in the past, Pavano and Wright come to mind. Giambi's ridiculous contract is another that I can think of. I think the Javy Vazquez trade merited a press conference.
YankeePride1967
11-28-05, 04:56 PM
I love how people are panicing
Don't you know? We must have our roster in place by December 1!
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 04:58 PM
The point is the Mets seem able to multi-task, while the Yankee fans seem proud of every day the front office doesn't do anything stupid...
Do you realize what you've just said?
Seamonk
11-28-05, 04:59 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
whalers
11-28-05, 05:00 PM
I'll reserve judgement until the Winter Meetings are over.
There is a legitimate reason to be concerned. Once Damon and Konerko are signed, the price for Giles is going to shoot up. Now that Howry, Eyre, Wagner, Ryan and possibly Gordon are signed, the prices for Farnsworth, Dotel, Tavarez, Looper, Rincon...etc are all going to increase dramatically.
If we had signed at least one solid reliever during the month of November, I wouldn't be so irritated by the whole situation.
AMYanks
11-28-05, 05:00 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
Why should they be doing "something"? What if their plan is to build with non-tendered guys, rule V guys, minor leaguers, etc.?
They would love to sign Giles today... it's not their fault he wants to check out his other options first.
Ivoted4Kodos
11-28-05, 05:01 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
Do you honestly think that they're not trying to do that stuff?
Just because they haven't made any moves doesn't mean they don't have a plan.
38Special
11-28-05, 05:02 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
Is this the first offseason you've witnessed? I didn't realize that all the INCREDIBLE BREATHTAKING MIDDLE FRIGGIN RELIEF options are whisking away in front of our eyes. It's not like its still NOVEMBER!@#!@
We must make a splash soon as I havent seen Randy Levine handsome mug in a while
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 05:02 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
Do what, though?
I've already asked: Out of all the moves that have been completed thus far, which ones would you have liked the Yankees to do?
I think they've been INCREDIBLY smart by not entering into any of these asinine deals. It gives me a lot of faith in what they are doing.
They've made overtures to all the right guys, and pulled out when things got out of control. That gives me confidence.
27IsNext
11-28-05, 05:03 PM
So far, pretty boring. Thank goodness it's also recruiting season for college football.
I'd rather it be boring than see us trade away our prospects, or overpay for people. So far, so good.
YankeePride1967
11-28-05, 05:04 PM
You're missing the point.
It's fine if you don't want to spend $50M to B. J. Ryan to set up.
But they should be doing something.
Strengthen the bench. Get some middle relief. Find a center fielder who can chase after the ball.
We don't want to see them do something stupid. But there seems to be little confidence that they can do something smart...
Are you on the phone with Brian Cashman as we speak to confirm he is doing nothing? You know for a fact that the Yanks don't have any offers out to free agents. Know with absolute certaintly that a trade isn't in the works? It is November 28. Opening day is not Wednesday. So far, not one player has signed that was a realistic option for us. Not one.
Seamonk
11-28-05, 05:09 PM
You couldn't have used Tike Redman?
YankeePride1967
11-28-05, 05:11 PM
You couldn't have used Tike Redman?
If he was available after our Plans A, B and C were gone yes, but I'd rather have Giles or Wilkerson over him. But you don't go with your third or fourth option first.
AMYanks
11-28-05, 05:11 PM
You couldn't have used Tike Redman?
He's slightly better than Tony Womack (without as much speed)... I have no use for him.
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 05:13 PM
You couldn't have used Tike Redman?
No way in hell.
2005 Eqa:
Redman- .225
Womack- .224
Good for Omar, he made an acquisition. He's winning!
yankswn23
11-28-05, 05:16 PM
What?
Ok here it is broken down so you can understand it..
IF we sign Damon,
Damon LF
Jeter SS
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and occasionaly DH
Giambi 1b and occasionaly DH
Matsui CF
Posoda C
Cano 2b
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
IF we sign Giles,
Jeter SS
Cano 2b
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and DH
Giambi 1b and DH
Matsui CF/LF
Giles LF/CF/RF
Posoda C
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
MTYankee23
11-28-05, 05:16 PM
If he was available after our Plans A, B and C were gone yes, but I'd rather have Giles or Wilkerson over him. But you don't go with your third or fourth option first.
3rd or 4th option. I'd figure like 20th or 21st. Maybe. If that.
Ivoted4Kodos
11-28-05, 05:19 PM
You couldn't have used Tike Redman?
I think they've already got enough people working concessions.
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 05:21 PM
Ok here it is broken down so you can understand it..
IF we sign Damon,
Damon LF
Jeter SS
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and occasionaly DH
Giambi 1b and occasionaly DH
Matsui CF
Posoda C
Cano 2b
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
IF we sign Giles,
Jeter SS
Cano 2b
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and DH
Giambi 1b and DH
Matsui CF/LF
Giles LF/CF/RF
Posoda C
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
I don't even know where to begin with this...
Ok here it is broken down so you can understand it..
IF we sign Damon,
Damon LF
Jeter SS
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and occasionaly DH
Giambi 1b and occasionaly DH
Matsui CF
Posoda C
Cano 2b
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
IF we sign Giles,
Jeter SS
Cano 2b
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and DH
Giambi 1b and DH
Matsui CF/LF
Giles LF/CF/RF
Posoda C
Williams DH/Phillips 1bThere is NO WAY you put Giles and his OBP 7th in a lineup.
I don't even know where to begin with this...I started with Giles batting 7th.
Snatch Catch
11-28-05, 05:22 PM
I started with Giles batting 7th.
What about signing Damon to a multiyear contract to play LF?
What about signing Damon to a multiyear contract to play LF?Heh. I missed that. I thought it said CF. Well, that's certainly more egregious than batting Giles 7th. The lineup mistake can always be fixed.
Also, I notice that he has Giles playing ALL three outfield positions.
AMYanks
11-28-05, 05:25 PM
Jeter SS
Cano 2b
A-Rod 3b
Sheff RF and DH
Giambi 1b and DH
Matsui CF/LF
Giles LF/CF/RF
Posoda C
Williams DH/Phillips 1b
So you'd put a .320 OBP in the 2nd slot, and a .423 OBP in the 7th slot?
YankeePride1967
11-28-05, 05:31 PM
3rd or 4th option. I'd figure like 20th or 21st. Maybe. If that.
I was feeling charitable.
yankswn23
11-28-05, 05:33 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
yankswn23
11-28-05, 05:34 PM
Also, I notice that he has Giles playing ALL three outfield positions.
I was saying he could play any of those spots if someone is at DH.
Ivoted4Kodos
11-28-05, 05:35 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
The person batting 7th gets fewer at bats than the person batting 2nd. I'd rather have Giles up more often than Cano.
rightfielder21
11-28-05, 05:36 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
Who is likely to get more at bats during the game, the person batting 2nd or 7th?
EDIT: I was beat to it... :P
AMYanks
11-28-05, 05:37 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
That's a silly theory. Giles should have more plate appearences than Cano.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 05:40 PM
They could also use TJ Beam and/or Steven White by the end of the summer. This becomes infinitely more difficult if they have a couple multi-year, big dollar reliever contracts hanging around the bullpen.
Another guy who I don't think costs any draft picks to sign, but could be worth taking an inexpensive flyer on would be Tony Armas, although some schmuck team will probably sign him to be their ace. Wow, i just looked at Beams numbers and had no idea they were so overwhelming. Whats his story? He's 25 and hasnt' even played AA yet? Where has he been? I don't see White making that kida jump with his past arm troubles and inneffectiveness at Trenton. I think Henn would have a better shot than both to be considered, but for some insane reason they haven't moved him to the pen yet. More often than not prospects don't work out though. I don't feel comfortable leaving spots open for that many question marks.
38Special
11-28-05, 05:42 PM
Wow, i just looked at Beams numbers and had no idea they were so overwhelming. Whats his story? He's 25 and hasnt' even played AA yet? Where has he been? I don't see White making that kida jump with his past arm troubles and inneffectiveness at Trenton. I think Henn would have a better shot than both to be considered, but for some insane reason they haven't moved him to the pen yet. More often than not prospects don't work out though. I don't feel comfortable leaving spots open for that many question marks.
Beam had trouble with command prior to 05, but put it together and steamrolled the competition. He was also the best relief prospect in the hitter-friendly AFL
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 05:43 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
That may be true, but wouldn't you want the lineup that would result in the most success? Giles will get on base more, hit for a higher average, and probably even steal more bases than Cano. Why wouldn't he hit second?
yankswn23
11-28-05, 05:44 PM
The person batting 7th gets fewer at bats than the person batting 2nd. I'd rather have Giles up more often than Cano.
Why youve seen Cano for one season, you dont think he has the ability to be a great hitter?
rightfielder21
11-28-05, 05:45 PM
Why youve seen Cano for one season, you dont think he has the ability to be a great hitter?
Okay, but you avoided the question...
I would rather have the better hitter NOW up more often, and the hitter who will be great in the future down a bit more...
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 05:46 PM
Beam had trouble with command prior to 05, but put it together and steamrolled the competition. He was also the best relief prospect in the hitter-friendly AFL
The AFL numbers were the ones that stuck out at me since all the good hitters get sent there and not many top pitchers. Its hard to believe the guy had control issues, his K/BB was so good in 05. Where do you think he'll start? Trenton or Columbus?
Ivoted4Kodos
11-28-05, 05:47 PM
Why youve seen Cano for one season, you dont think he has the ability to be a great hitter?
Did I say anything about that?
Right now, Giles is better. He'll get on base more in front of the heart of the lineup.
JfromJersey
11-28-05, 05:47 PM
I think they've been INCREDIBLY smart by not entering into any of these asinine deals. It gives me a lot of faith in what they are doing.
They've made overtures to all the right guys, and pulled out when things got out of control. That gives me confidence.
All I know is that 2 division rivals (Boston, Toronto) have improved themselves in terms of players, and Baltimore now has Mazzone, and the Mets have really improved as well as garnered all the headlines, and we haven't done anything yet to address our problems. Not doing something stupid now is one thing, but that doesn't mean we might not be forced to do something stupid later, especially if the Sox and Mets and Jays stay proactive.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
11-28-05, 05:49 PM
Okay, but you avoided the question...
I would rather have the better hitter NOW up more often, and the hitter who will be great in the future down a bit more...
Not only that, but the 2 hitter is a table setter. Even if Cano is great he isn't going to be a high OBP guy, its not his style. He's better suited where he can get up with men on and just swing.
The AFL numbers were the ones that stuck out at me since all the good hitters get sent there and not many top pitchers. Its hard to believe the guy had control issues, his K/BB was so good in 05. Where do you think he'll start? Trenton or Columbus?Trenton, probably.
I Love Wang
11-28-05, 06:03 PM
You can pretty much move all the hitters in the Yankee lineup anywhere and be successfull, it doesnt matter who bats 7th he only bats 7th first time through the lineup and like Jeter said you can throw those stat guys out the window.
By batting Cano 2nd and Giles 7th, you're costing Giles around 90 plate appearances during the course of the season.
The anti-intellectual sentiment by so many sports fans is extraordinarily frustrating.
38Special
11-28-05, 06:04 PM
The AFL numbers were the ones that stuck out at me since all the good hitters get sent there and not many top pitchers. Its hard to believe the guy had control issues, his K/BB was so good in 05. Where do you think he'll start? Trenton or Columbus?
Trenton. He's on the 40 man now, so he could get a callup any time in 06.
rightfielder21
11-28-05, 06:14 PM
All I know is that 2 division rivals (Boston, Toronto) have improved themselves in terms of players, and Baltimore now has Mazzone, and the Mets have really improved as well as garnered all the headlines, and we haven't done anything yet to address our problems. Not doing something stupid now is one thing, but that doesn't mean we might not be forced to do something stupid later, especially if the Sox and Mets and Jays stay proactive.
So what would you have done up until today?
JfromJersey
11-28-05, 06:47 PM
So what would you have done up until today?
I don't know. I'm not privy to all the stuff going on between Cashman and other GMs and agents, or between Cashman and higher ups in the organization. All the rumors instigated by the media don't mean a lot. Who or what was offered for who or what? To this point there's only been a lot of speculation. I was just responding to the poster who stated that he had confidence in what the Yankees were doing, simply because they weren't doing anything stupid. I don't know how you can put a positive spin on inaction. Until they actually do something positive to address our concerns this offseason, I would rather withhold judgement.
BroadwayBomber55
11-28-05, 08:18 PM
I feel ok and optimistic, but I really hope the Yankees make all the right moves on making a quality championship team. I like to see the Yankees use the 1990s blueprint: developing talent in the farm system that can be solid contributors for the Yankees (i.e. Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera), acquiring key role players that could be unsung heroes (i.e. Scott Brosius) and a few All-Stars. I rather have a solid, quality championship team blueprint that designs a team that can beat you in so many ways: pitching, defense, smallball, close games, blow out opponents, etc. than the an all Ex-All Star Blueprint.
The Yankees time to win the World Series will come again, but I just don't know when. It's up to the whole Yankee team and front office to get the Yankees to the top as the Kings of Baseball again.
ring403
11-28-05, 08:19 PM
I was just responding to the poster who stated that he had confidence in what the Yankees were doing, simply because they weren't doing anything stupid. I don't know how you can put a positive spin on inaction. Until they actually do something positive to address our concerns this offseason, I would rather withhold judgement.
Some people, myself included, are very encouraged by the lack of rash moves, despite trades by the Mets and Red Sox. In years past, there would have been a percieved need to "retaliate" by throwing obscene amounts of money at a big name, just to grab back page headlines. Who can forget last offseason's ridiculous courtship of Eric Milton? Or the brilliant signing of Tony Womack? Or Jaret Wright?
The fact that the team is clearly taking a different approach is heartening. Certainly, we'll all hold judgement until the offseason is finished, but I think there is definitely reason to feel positive about the change in approach, despite the displeasure of the media, and some of the fans.
StatenIslandYankee
11-28-05, 08:30 PM
I know we should be thankful there were no panic moves, however does anyone think we are running out of options for CF? MRP?
OMGZ we're doooooooooooomed!11!!!!1!!
JeterRodriguezSheff
11-28-05, 08:43 PM
Cashman is taking the sit and wait route. Maybe he is waiting for the non tender deadline thing, when Milton Bradley will likely become a FA. Or maybe he just wants to see all his options which is smart because there is still tons of time left.
JfromJersey
11-28-05, 11:33 PM
Some people, myself included, are very encouraged by the lack of rash moves, despite trades by the Mets and Red Sox. In years past, there would have been a percieved need to "retaliate" by throwing obscene amounts of money at a big name, just to grab back page headlines. Who can forget last offseason's ridiculous courtship of Eric Milton? Or the brilliant signing of Tony Womack? Or Jaret Wright?
The fact that the team is clearly taking a different approach is heartening. Certainly, we'll all hold judgement until the offseason is finished, but I think there is definitely reason to feel positive about the change in approach, despite the displeasure of the media, and some of the fans.
Aside from Matsui, I don't feel good about this post season so far. To be honest, I'm apathetic about it. Just because we haven't done something stupid in November, doesn't mean we can't do something stupid in December. I will withhold judgement until we actually do something about our deficiencies, but I can't be jumping for joy when our main competition has already made significant moves to improve, and we're still in limbo.
Macklew
11-29-05, 10:18 AM
Everybody wet their pants in joy about Cashman staying. So he stands around and watches Ryan;s express pull out; Wagner's wagon wag out, and who else. Well, we got him boy.
Everybody wet their pants in joy about Cashman staying. So he stands around and watches Ryan;s express pull out; Wagner's wagon wag out, and who else. Well, we got him boy.Neither Wagner nor Ryan wanted to set up. That's not Cashman's fault.
Neither Wagner nor Ryan wanted to set up. That's not Cashman's fault.
Plus they were severely overpaid. I don't understand why people don't get that.
AMYanks
11-29-05, 02:47 PM
Everybody wet their pants in joy about Cashman staying. So he stands around and watches Ryan;s express pull out; Wagner's wagon wag out, and who else. Well, we got him boy.
You're kidding, right?
Please, someone tell me this is some weird dream I'm having.
I'm pleased with this offseason so far.
Cashman is sticking around and has full (or almost full) control of the team
Stick is being brought back into the inner circle
We re-signed Matsui
We haven't signed or traded for any overpriced, overvalued, or overage players (so far)
Additionally, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not.... but does anyone else like the sub-text of this standing pat business? Check this out: Underneath everything else, other teams might be starting to get the message that, "Just because you're dealing with the Yankees doesn't mean you can undervalue our talent. Not anymore."
I have no doubt that Cashman would trade Wang or Cano IF --- and that's a big if -- the right deal came along. However, the way the Yanks would "panic" and make trades in the past, no one is giving them a fair valuation when it comes to trades. Maybe Cashman can put a stop to that, or at least start trending in the other direction, which would most definitely be FANTASTIC in the long-term. It'd also work out in the short-term, too, since we wouldn't be "forced" (so to speak) to accept lousy deals just because. Other teams never had to deal with that kind of approach from the Yankees before, so hopefully, they'll get the message, and the Yanks can start receiving decent trade offers again.
Overall, my take is that it's already a good team. Do they have needs? Of course... every team does. If they can fill those needs for a fair value, great. If not... I'd rather them not make any moves. But determining that fair value is key. The way I see it, we have a lot of things that can work out really well with the current roster. Maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of guy, but check it:
RJ will hopefully have ironed out those mechanical issues next season, especially with access to Kerrigan all the time. He better, anyway. :-po'd-: :P
Starting rotation is a year older, yes... but hopefully healthier. Last year was ridiculous... you can't expect that to happen again.
I wouldn't mind seeing what Crosby could do with the bat after working with Mattingly for a while longer. We already know he can field. Besides, would his offensive numbers really be that much worse than the offensive production we got from the CF position last year? I don't think so.
Cano will be a year older, and a little more mature, hopefully. And we'll get a full season from him this year.
Chacon will hopefully pick up where he left off, only we'll get to see an entire season of that curve ball.
Giambi shouldn't have to fight his way through a horrific slump at the beginning of the year
Guidry and Kerrigan can - maybe - teach Proctor to throw strikes... he could then set-up Mo.
Small and/or Wright would both tremendously improve middle relief. Can't be worse than last year with those two, right?
The Yanks had a ridiculously good record after that craptacular start last season. If they can avoid that nasty start, and avoid suffering as many injuries to the staff as they did last season, they should be able to have another strong season, even if you factor in a slight decline from last year's numbers in some of our aging players (Sheff, Giambi, RJ, Moose, etc.)
Macklew
11-30-05, 12:21 PM
I'm thinking it's only November and everyone needs to stop panicing.
I hope you're not the same person who posted "it's only April...May...June, etc." last season. :D
TEPLimey
11-30-05, 12:27 PM
This Yankee team needs the Brosiuses (role-players) to join the team. We haven't seen a blockbuster deal because we don't need one.
I am happy to see the Ryans of the world sign for massive dollars with other teams while the Yankees ink the Stinnetts and Verases. We don't need to make a big splash to be successful in 2006.
Macklew
11-30-05, 12:30 PM
You're kidding, right?
Please, someone tell me this is some weird dream I'm having.
You're right. It's a big, big joke!
When does the season start? I can't wait for the season to start and see Bernie regain his old skills, find a bionic arm and resurrect blazing speed; I look forwad to Po returning to those yesteryears, boldly blocking every runner that tries to get by him to home plate, resumes lashing feiry liners and lofty homers; bring on the set up men that mows down every batter that brings us to Mo. That's not a dream, it's a nightmare my friend. Its like "Cash" in the bank. Let the games begin.
I Love Wang
11-30-05, 01:32 PM
I hope you're not the same person who posted "it's only April...May...June, etc." last season. :D
Wasn't that person right? Didn't we end up winning the division, after 90% of the fans gave up on the season?
Wasn't that person right? Didn't we end up winning the division, after 90% of the fans gave up on the season?
:lol: :lol:
Macklew
11-30-05, 02:07 PM
Wasn't that person right? Didn't we end up winning the division, after 90% of the fans gave up on the season?
...and we sat back and watched the World Series - after the collapse of Baltimore and Boston, and....and - but it was only October.
AMYanks
11-30-05, 02:40 PM
You're right. It's a big, big joke!
When does the season start? I can't wait for the season to start and see Bernie regain his old skills, find a bionic arm and resurrect blazing speed; I look forwad to Po returning to those yesteryears, boldly blocking every runner that tries to get by him to home plate, resumes lashing feiry liners and lofty homers; bring on the set up men that mows down every batter that brings us to Mo. That's not a dream, it's a nightmare my friend. Its like "Cash" in the bank. Let the games begin.
You've convinced me. Let's trade Cano, Wang, Hughes, and Duncan for Pierre.
WE NEED TO GET THINGS DONE!!!
...and we sat back and watched the World Series - after the collapse of Baltimore and Boston, and....and - but it was only October.
So you're not gonna give the Yankees any credit because it would prove you wrong? Gotcha!
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