View Full Version : The Panic Button
George Steinbrenner
11-22-05, 09:46 PM
After my New York Knick's terrible start, I have been cleansing my mind of sports for weeks. Then I wake up today, curious what the Yanks are up to, and I see the headline "BOSTON REELS IN BECKETT". I honestly cannot believe Boston got Beckett,arguably the best young pitcher in baseball. Im terrified. The young man is an ABSOLUTE ACE, with the potential of a Clemens, Johnson or Schilling. I am shell shocked.
We must respond. We need atleast one, hopefully 2, of these 4 relievers: Ryan, Gordon, Wickman, Wagner. No way am I relying Tanyon Sturtze or Scott Eyre or Kyle Farnsworth or Proctor or Matt Smith. No, shlubs and rookies arent the answe r to our championship woes. We need a dominant pen like it's 1998 all over again to bridge to Mo. We need a cream of the crop setup man, preferably a lefty. I prefer Ryan, but if he goes elsewhere we need to break the bank and give Wagner an equal salary as Mo for 2 years.
I have no idea whats going on with the centerfield situation. Hearing "Bubba Crosby" and "opening day" makes me shudder. Maybe we can rape the Marlins out of Juan Pierre. Maybe Carlos Delgado. All I know is that the first major shot was fired this offseason by Boston, and it was a fantastic move for them. Its basically like they are trading Manny Ramirez (and his huge salary) and 2 prospects for Josh Beckett (+ Mike Lowell and his huge salary). Whatever they can salvage from the Angels for ManRam is gravy. Thats the swap and it is a genius move. Beckett is a proven Yankee killer and for the first time since Bubba and Sheffield collided, I am officially hitting the panic button. Hopefully he gets some more blisters. Thankfully, we still have Torre and Cashman running the sho, and we still have a fantastic core team. I cant wait to see what we do.
BIG STEIN WANTS TO MAKE A BIG SPLASH! LETS GO YANKEES! LETS GET IT #27-IN-06.
YankeePride1967
11-22-05, 09:47 PM
It's November 22.
rightfielder21
11-22-05, 09:48 PM
I just soiled myself...
IncredibleByNature
11-22-05, 09:51 PM
Oy Vey.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=2233264
Good article by Buster Olney
RhodyYanksFan
11-22-05, 09:53 PM
Wow...just wow.
So you want Delgado you say? What will the Yankees do with another overpaid, subpar 1B? Teams with 5 DH don't win World Series.
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nausem in the Beckett thread, but what has he ever done besides those 2 weeks in October of 2003? Why is nobody talking about how he's moving from the NL to the AL...from a huge pitchers park to a hitters one...or the fact that he's been on the DL 9 times in the last 4 years (which is way ahead of Kevin Brown's pace)?
Calm the F down. The Yankees already got burned with a Florida pitcher, I'm not in a rush to see them do it again.
The Red Sox can't afford Manny, Damon and Lowell.
arguably the best young pitcher in baseball
Heh heh, you so craaaaaaaaazzzaaaaaaaaaayy!!!
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-22-05, 09:55 PM
Who knew there was a George Steinbrenner even more irrational than the real one.
WebsterMulligan
11-22-05, 09:56 PM
Go back to sleep, George.
RhodyYanksFan
11-22-05, 09:59 PM
Who knew there was a George Steinbrenner even more irrational than the real one.
:lol:
rightfielder21
11-22-05, 10:00 PM
Who knew there was a George Steinbrenner even more irrational than the real one.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ivoted4Kodos
11-22-05, 10:00 PM
Beckett,arguably the best young pitcher in baseball.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Roberto Kelly
11-22-05, 10:02 PM
I love it, Beckett has 1 good game against the Yankees and he's annoited a Yankee killer for ever and ever Amen. Half of the guys that were in the lineup in '03 aren't even on the team anymore.
Dr. Gonzo
11-22-05, 10:04 PM
posts and yankee fans like this are the people who demand big trades and then bitch that the team was poorly conceived.
Your impatience is what you complain about later.
Relax, it is not like the yankees are the KC Royals.
I hate these posts.
IncredibleByNature
11-22-05, 10:05 PM
Who knew there was a George Steinbrenner even more irrational than the real one.
:roflmao:
StaceyRosie
11-22-05, 10:08 PM
Oy vey
RhodeyYankee2638
11-22-05, 10:11 PM
arguably the best young pitcher in baseball
He was the third best young pitcher on the Marlins staff, let alone in all of baseball
IncredibleByNature
11-22-05, 10:12 PM
Oy vey
Copycat. :P ;)
StaceyRosie
11-22-05, 10:14 PM
Copycat. :P ;)
:roflmao: I posted without looking at the rest of the thread.
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 10:15 PM
hello board but if i'm the yanks i spend the money on furcal and make him a center fielder...he has the speed and the rocket arm...just will need to adjust to making good reads i mean we don't need another slugger we need hitters on like the old yankee teams...good contact 20 hr hitters..some speed and a good bench ...
did anyone not see what scotty podsednik did for the white sox last year?
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also for the bullpen i'd sign b.j. ryan and let tom gordon go cause he sucks in the playoffs and then we can sign kyle farnsworth..he has incredible stuff.... and for an extra left hander to go with ryan we can get scott eyre(gone :( ) or kelly wunsch.
I like our rotation when healthy though i would love to trade mussina but it won't happen
1. big unit 42
2. mussina 36 (if we could somehow trade him i'd be happy)
3. chacon 27
4. pavano 29
5. wang @ 25
our new bullpen would consist of
jarrett wright @ age 29...blowin heat and good stuff..shorten the game for him in the bullpen
aaron small @ age 33 ...smart pitcher
sturze @ age 35
b.j. ryan..lefty and righty specialist @ age 29 blowin heat
farnsworth ...amazing stuff and great heat @ age 29
Kelly Wunsch @ 33...lefty specialist only...he cannot get right handers out
mariano rivera....
that's a bullpen there we'd have a serious team all we'd need was for our starters to go to 6 innings of 3 run ball
if we could trade mussina we should sign jarred washburn immediately...he's a lefty and has proven he can pitch in ny before and in the clutch... we also need another 1b..a good defense contact hitting one and i'd love to see us give travis lee another try but alas it won't happen
thoughts yanks fan?
I Love Wang
11-22-05, 10:20 PM
After my New York Knick's terrible start, I have been cleansing my mind of sports for weeks. Then I wake up today, curious what the Yanks are up to, and I see the headline "BOSTON REELS IN BECKETT". I honestly cannot believe Boston got Beckett,arguably the best young pitcher in baseball. Im terrified. The young man is an ABSOLUTE ACE, with the potential of a Clemens, Johnson or Schilling. I am shell shocked.
Are you kidding? There's no way that Beckett is as good as Santana, Peavy, Oswalt, Zambrano, Dontrelle, Lackey, or Harden. He's certainly not an "absolute ace."
I Love Wang
11-22-05, 10:21 PM
hello board but if i'm the yanks i spend the money on furcal and make him a center fielder...he has the speed and the rocket arm...just will need to adjust to making good reads i mean we don't need another slugger we need hitters on like the old yankee teams...good contact 20 hr hitters..some speed and a good bench ...
did anyone not see what scotty podsednik did for the white sox last year?
I saw him make a lot more outs than he should have. He did catch a lot of lazy flyballs that their fantastic pitching staff allowed.
WebsterMulligan
11-22-05, 10:36 PM
Are you kidding? There's no way that Beckett is as good as Santana, Peavy, Oswalt, Zambrano, Dontrelle, Lackey, or Harden. He's certainly not an "absolute ace."
I completely agree. Beckett is a middle of the rotation starter at best.
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 10:49 PM
I saw him make a lot more outs than he should have. He did catch a lot of lazy flyballs that their fantastic pitching staff allowed.
wow this is a first....so now you're downplaying scott posednik's role on the white sox...the man that guillen labeled as the most important addition to the team...posednik represented the whole change in philosophy. Tad iguchi was considered the mvp by the clubhouse(yes guillen said so because of his sefless play) but posednik changed the whole way of playing.
I mean c'mon yankee fans so we want another stiff in cf...hitting home runs...our championship teams had speed...whether it was knoblauch from 98 to 2000...or in 96 when it was spread between a younger jeter, gerald and bernie williams,raines and fox...
we need a change..i mean this line-up full of sluggers is not working just ask the white sox...before last year...sure we can have 2 or 3 sluggers but we need to comprise our team of mostly smart contact grind it out hitters like the old yankee teams...we need the giradi's ...the curtis's....the sojo's....the brosius's....the raines...the leyritz's... we already have o'neil in the form of matsui.
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 10:50 PM
I completely agree. Beckett is a middle of the rotation starter at best.
don't lie beckett has incredible stuff...coming out of texas they said he had better stuff than kerry wood and u know when beckett is on..he is great..his only concern is injury and it's a big one but don't treat the man like he's not part of the elite.
BroadwayBomber55
11-22-05, 10:54 PM
Panic button my a$$!
I rather have the easy button from staples than the panic button.
WebsterMulligan
11-22-05, 11:02 PM
don't lie beckett has incredible stuff...coming out of texas they said he had better stuff than kerry wood and u know when beckett is on..he is great..his only concern is injury and it's a big one but don't treat the man like he's not part of the elite.
When he's on, Beckett can go through a lineup like nobody's business, but he still has alot to prove before he can be considered a legitimate ace of the rotation, IMO.
The Red Sox certainly strengthened their rotation by aquiring him, no doubt. Time will tell whether or not he can make the transition to the AL and become a dominant force.
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 11:06 PM
When he's on, Beckett can go through a lineup like nobody's business, but he still has alot to prove before he can be considered a legitimate ace of the rotation, IMO.
The Red Sox certainly strengthened their rotation by aquiring him, no doubt. Time will tell whether or not he can make the transition to the AL and become a dominant force.
agreed the A.L. especially the AL east can make elite pitchers look ordinary i.e: pedro in his later years...schilling,big unit, clement and clemens.
PittsburghYankeeFan
11-22-05, 11:07 PM
So they got Josh Beckett. Big deal. They still have to deal with many other issues. Let Beckett pitch a bit in the AL and we'll see what happens--could be good, could be Pavano (who was 18-8 in 2004 for the now Flying Out of Miami Fish). Isn't he a free agent in a year or so when he does his five years?
Lowell--also who knows? Could be Brosious replay for the Sox.
Now if the Sox toss Manny and somehow get Delgado, then they have someone to protect Ortiz again, and then we'll see.
My guess, with Giles being an idiot about not talking to Torre et al, I suspect that the Y's are looking hard at Damon (and holding their collective noses). Boras will not pull another Beltran on them--this will get done, one way or another, before the end of the year. And if it doesn't--Bubba can play defense, and we do not really need the extra bat with this lineup.
BJ Ryan would be a fool not to take the Y's offer of closer money ($9 million or so per year), a 4 year contract, and 2 years to learn everything Mariano knows before having the chance (and the stage) to become another great closer in his image. Isn't that what Mo did with Wettland? If he doesn't take that offer (which should be every potential closer's dream) he doesn't have the makeup to make it in NY anyway.
Gordon will close, allright, for Detroit or some other low end club desperate enough to give a 38 year old with a history of a dead arm among other health issues a 3 year contract. Or he will wisen up and finish his career here, among players, fans, and coaches that know him well and appreciate him. If he is smart enough, maybe a performace based 3rd year option could be worked out.
Don't underestimate Cashman or overestimate Luccino. ARod and Chacon were good unexpected moves. Give it some time.
To be honest, what they have now (with the exception of 1-2 BP arms) isn't too bad.
NewEraYanks2527
11-22-05, 11:14 PM
Memo to George:
Cash is in the drivers seat, you just sit back and have some lunch with Costanza and things will be fine.
It's November 22.
On November 22, Resistance is Futile
(About 8 years ago Star Trek: First Contact came out. I know it came out on November 22 because this tv commericial is forever ingrained in my mind)
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 11:20 PM
So they got Josh Beckett. Big deal. They still have to deal with many other issues. Let Beckett pitch a bit in the AL and we'll see what happens--could be good, could be Pavano (who was 18-8 in 2004 for the now Flying Out of Miami Fish). Isn't he a free agent in a year or so when he does his five years?
Lowell--also who knows? Could be Brosious replay for the Sox.
Now if the Sox toss Manny and somehow get Delgado, then they have someone to protect Ortiz again, and then we'll see.
My guess, with Giles being an idiot about not talking to Torre et al, I suspect that the Y's are looking hard at Damon (and holding their collective noses). Boras will not pull another Beltran on them--this will get done, one way or another, before the end of the year. And if it doesn't--Bubba can play defense, and we do not really need the extra bat with this lineup.
BJ Ryan would be a fool not to take the Y's offer of closer money ($9 million or so per year), a 4 year contract, and 2 years to learn everything Mariano knows before having the chance (and the stage) to become another great closer in his image. Isn't that what Mo did with Wettland? If he doesn't take that offer (which should be every potential closer's dream) he doesn't have the makeup to make it in NY anyway.
Gordon will close, allright, for Detroit or some other low end club desperate enough to give a 38 year old with a history of a dead arm among other health issues a 3 year contract. Or he will wisen up and finish his career here, among players, fans, and coaches that know him well and appreciate him. If he is smart enough, maybe a performace based 3rd year option could be worked out.
Don't underestimate Cashman or overestimate Luccino. ARod and Chacon were good unexpected moves. Give it some time.
To be honest, what they have now (with the exception of 1-2 BP arms) isn't too bad.
damon would be a horrible signing...why get old @ cf...we don't want to have a run wtf?
MIAMI -- Free-agent shortstop Rafael Furcal has set a price tag of $50 million over five or six years for his next contract, agent Paul Kinzer told ESPNdeportes.com.
"Things have changed significantly since the free-agent period started. There's only one Rafael Furcal available and whoever wants to get him will have to pay for what he is worth," Kinzer said Friday. "We're looking for a five- or six-year contract, and $50 million is a pretty realistic figure."
Furcal
Furcal had previously said he would look for a contract similar to the one Edgar Renteria signed with the Red Sox before the start of last season, worth $40 million over four years.
The 183 players who filed for free agency since the end of the World Series can start negotiating money with all teams starting Friday. Furcal filed for free agency after playing the last six seasons with the Atlanta Braves.
Kinzer said at least five teams have contacted him, including the Braves, and are ready to pay what Furcal is asking.
The New York Mets, Chicago Cubs and Kansas City Royals have already shown interest in Furcal and, according to Kinzer, the New York Yankees have also contacted him to find out if Furcal would consider playing center field.
Depending on who replaces Theo Epstein as general manager, the Boston Red Sox could also join the chase. A move to Fenway Park would mean Furcal would likely not play shortstop unless Renteria is traded.
"Raffy is OK with playing shortstop, second base or center field," Kinzer said. "Just give him a glove and he will play wherever you ask him to."
Kinzer and Atlanta officials will meet again next week, but there is no schedule for further talks.
"There will be a lot of talking now, but I don't expect to sign a contract until the beginning of December," Kinzer said.
After a slow start, Furcal ended the season batting .338 in the Braves' last 78 games. He finished the season hitting .278 with 12 home runs and 58 RBI. Furcal also stole 46 bases and scored 100 runs.
Furcal, who was the National League's Rookie of the Year in 2000, has a .284 career batting average with 189 stolen bases and 554 runs scored.<!-- / message -->
PaidYoung
11-22-05, 11:22 PM
why don't you people want to get young but still be championship contenders..the yankees that were winning did not begin as old or inefficent as last year's team
NewEraYanks2527
11-22-05, 11:24 PM
On November 22, Resistance is Futile
(About 8 years ago Star Trek: First Contact came out. I know it came out on November 22 because this tv commericial is forever ingrained in my mind)
Or is it that you are just a Trekky nerd ;)
yanksphan
11-22-05, 11:25 PM
Hey George...I've got a "button" for ya...a little blue one...or two...
http://www.viagrahallmarkpharmacy.com/images_pics/valium.jpg
Hey George S., why not fire Guidry? After all, canning the pitching coach has always been a good way for you to vent these gosh-darned psychotic rages. And really, if Guidry was a good pitching coach, shouldn't the pitching have improved already? Isn't it his @%%$# fault that Ryan's not signed?
Time to fire him, and then you can start the next phase - ringing up Cashman on the Bat-phone at 3 a.m. to trade Wang for Rick Rhoden.
27IsNext
11-23-05, 12:25 AM
Personally, I'm much more worried about what Annibal Sanchez could become than Josh Beckett. I'm glad the Sox burned three young prospects.
NYYBombshell
11-23-05, 12:35 AM
Oh for the love of powdered donuts..............
It's November 23!
dabomb2045
11-23-05, 12:40 AM
we had horrible drafts in the early 00's...thats whats hurting us, not teams conspiring to not trade with us
MisterNovember
11-23-05, 12:53 AM
we had horrible drafts in the early 00's...thats whats hurting us, not teams conspiring to not trade with us
THANK YOU!
I'm so sick of this pathetic attitude that every team in the league should bend over and let the Yankees have their way. The Marlins weren't going to trade Josh Beckett for Tony Womack and Bubba Crosby...get over it. Other teams in the league have infinitely better bargaining chips than the Yankees do...thats what happens when you build a team through free agency. The best we can hope for is that the Yanks can land Giles/Damon/Jones at a reasonable rate, shore up the bullpen, and hang w/ the Red Sox next season. It isn't the Yankees' divine right to acquire every available player.
MisterNovember
11-23-05, 12:56 AM
Memo to George:
Cash is in the drivers seat, you just sit back and have some lunch with Costanza and things will be fine.
I know a place that makes excellent calzones...
Yankees1962
11-23-05, 02:46 AM
I love it, Beckett has 1 good game against the Yankees and he's annoited a Yankee killer for ever and ever Amen. Half of the guys that were in the lineup in '03 aren't even on the team anymore.
A very good point that needs to be taken seriously. Only Jeter, Posada, Giambi and Matsui in his first MLB season remain from that 2003 club. The next encounters between Beckett and the Yankees might be entirely different.
Yankees1962
11-23-05, 02:49 AM
Personally, I'm much more worried about what Annibal Sanchez could become than Josh Beckett. I'm glad the Sox burned three young prospects.
Why are you worried about Sanchez, since he's in the NL with the Marlins?
Michael Corleone: Your enemies always get strong on what you leave behind.
How will Steinbrenner respond to the Red Sox acquiring a new fresh prince of pitching? I stumbled upon "Godfather III" the other night and thought about Steinbrenner in the following scene: (note: I see Steinbrenner in the Andy Garcia role of the hot-tempered, ear-biting VIncent Mancini. The Red Sox are his hated enemy, Joey Zasa. Pacino, as always, is Mikey Corleone.)
Vincent Mancini : [in the helicopter] I'd like to take Joey Zasa up in one of these and drop him.
Michael Corleone : Joey Zasa is nothing. He's a small-time enforcer. He bluffs, threats, but nothing. You can see him coming a mile away.
Vincent Mancini : We should kill him before he kills ...
Michael Corleone: No! Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.
How the heck does this scene apply to the Yanks? Well, if Vincent Mancini was the Yanks GM this morning, his first move would be to make Boston free agent Johnny Damon the Yankees next centerfielder/leadoff hitter. Forget about the insane money for a minute, forget that Damon's spaghetti arm would look even more "angel hair-esque" at Yankee Stadium, and remember this: Johnny Damon is a god in Boston. He's right up there with Schilling and Ortiz. Bringing Damon to the Bronx - clipping his hair, shaving off his beard, and making him a 'damn Yankee!' - would drive a stake into the heart of the Red Sox frontoffice. The backpage headlines in New York, "Heeeere's Johnny!" would rock "Red Sox Nation" like a tsunami. Oh, no doubt, it would be the kind of instant gratification and sadistic revenge that would make Vincent Mancini's day. It would be an act of hate against the enemy, plus, in some respects, the Yankees would get stronger on what their enemy left behind.
But considering Damon's demands, and that the Yanks are trying to move in a different direction, I think Michael Corleone would question the judgment of a Yankee GM who would bring Damon to the Yankees now and advise against it.
Hmmmm, panic button. . hmmmm, Jerome, is that you?
Michael Corleone: Your enemies always get strong on what you leave behind.
How will Steinbrenner respond to the Red Sox acquiring a new fresh prince of pitching? I stumbled upon "Godfather III" the other night and thought about Steinbrenner in the following scene: (note: I see Steinbrenner in the Andy Garcia role of the hot-tempered, ear-biting VIncent Mancini. The Red Sox are his hated enemy, Joey Zasa. Pacino, as always, is Mikey Corleone.)
Vincent Mancini : [in the helicopter] I'd like to take Joey Zasa up in one of these and drop him.
Michael Corleone : Joey Zasa is nothing. He's a small-time enforcer. He bluffs, threats, but nothing. You can see him coming a mile away.
Vincent Mancini : We should kill him before he kills ...
Michael Corleone: No! Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.
How the heck does this scene apply to the Yanks? Well, if Vincent Mancini was the Yanks GM this morning, his first move would be to make Boston free agent Johnny Damon the Yankees next centerfielder/leadoff hitter. Forget about the insane money for a minute, forget that Damon's spaghetti arm would look even more "angel hair-esque" at Yankee Stadium, and remember this: Johnny Damon is a god in Boston. He's right up there with Schilling and Ortiz. Bringing Damon to the Bronx - clipping his hair, shaving off his beard, and making him a 'damn Yankee!' - would drive a stake into the heart of the Red Sox frontoffice. The backpage headlines in New York, "Heeeere's Johnny!" would rock "Red Sox Nation" like a tsunami. Oh, no doubt, it would be the kind of instant gratification and sadistic revenge that would make Vincent Mancini's day. It would be an act of hate against the enemy, plus, in some respects, the Yankees would get stronger on what their enemy left behind.
But considering Damon's demands, and that the Yanks are trying to move in a different direction, I think Michael Corleone would question the judgment of a Yankee GM who would bring Damon to the Yankees now and advise against it.
If we signed Damon to what he is asking for merely because the Sox traded for two players who we really don't need right now, RSN would certainly rock -- but with laughter, not with pain.
mjdlight
11-23-05, 09:16 AM
Eff panic buttons, and eff RSN. The keeping up with the Joneses attitude (that began when Boston signed Manny to the mega-deal) is a big reason why we've been a 200 million dollar team with no rings.
Our mission is not to rock RSN, or outspend them, or sign their FA centerfielder to a bloated contract.
I think Cashman understands this, and now that he has solidified his control over the franchise (at least for the moment), I'd expect to see the team move in a direction consistent with this understanding.
Amen.
If we signed Damon to what he is asking for merely because the Sox traded for two players who we really don't need right now, RSN would certainly rock -- but with laughter, not with pain.
Its been so long since the Yankee organization acted on a rational basis rather than emotion, I think some don't know what to make of it. So far, I love this hot stove season. I would look for Cash to sign some relief and, perhaps, a couple of strong bats off of the bench. But, no big moves this offseason.
After my New York Knick's terrible start, I have been cleansing my mind of sports for weeks. Then I wake up today, curious what the Yanks are up to, and I see the headline "BOSTON REELS IN BECKETT". I honestly cannot believe Boston got Beckett,arguably the best young pitcher in baseball. Im terrified. The young man is an ABSOLUTE ACE, with the potential of a Clemens, Johnson or Schilling. I am shell shocked.
We must respond. We need atleast one, hopefully 2, of these 4 relievers: Ryan, Gordon, Wickman, Wagner. No way am I relying Tanyon Sturtze or Scott Eyre or Kyle Farnsworth or Proctor or Matt Smith. No, shlubs and rookies arent the answe r to our championship woes. We need a dominant pen like it's 1998 all over again to bridge to Mo. We need a cream of the crop setup man, preferably a lefty. I prefer Ryan, but if he goes elsewhere we need to break the bank and give Wagner an equal salary as Mo for 2 years.
I have no idea whats going on with the centerfield situation. Hearing "Bubba Crosby" and "opening day" makes me shudder. Maybe we can rape the Marlins out of Juan Pierre. Maybe Carlos Delgado. All I know is that the first major shot was fired this offseason by Boston, and it was a fantastic move for them. Its basically like they are trading Manny Ramirez (and his huge salary) and 2 prospects for Josh Beckett (+ Mike Lowell and his huge salary). Whatever they can salvage from the Angels for ManRam is gravy. Thats the swap and it is a genius move. Beckett is a proven Yankee killer and for the first time since Bubba and Sheffield collided, I am officially hitting the panic button. Hopefully he gets some more blisters. Thankfully, we still have Torre and Cashman running the sho, and we still have a fantastic core team. I cant wait to see what we do.
BIG STEIN WANTS TO MAKE A BIG SPLASH! LETS GO YANKEES! LETS GET IT #27-IN-06.
Hey, let's sign Ryan and Wagner. Throw 15 million a year at each. Add Delgado at 16 million + per year. Get Giles at 15 million per year.
So we have a 350 million payroll. So what. It's not my money.The above is what you really are asking for. And it still won't guarantee a WS title, so pipe down, and let Cashman do his thing between now and ST.
If we signed Damon to what he is asking for merely because the Sox traded for two players who we really don't need right now, RSN would certainly rock -- but with laughter, not with pain.
Eff panic buttons, and eff RSN. The keeping up with the Joneses attitude (that began when Boston signed Manny to the mega-deal) is a big reason why we've been a 200 million dollar team with no rings.
Our mission is not to rock RSN, or outspend them, or sign their FA centerfielder to a bloated contract.
I think Cashman understands this, and now that he has solidified his control over the franchise (at least for the moment), I'd expect to see the team move in a direction consistent with this understanding.
Amen.
Right on, mjdlight and Jasbro. I hope Cashman keeps playing it cool and Corleone-esque.
sundstrom
11-23-05, 09:28 AM
Its basically like they are trading Manny Ramirez (and his huge salary) and 2 prospects for Josh Beckett (+ Mike Lowell and his huge salary). Whatever they can salvage from the Angels for ManRam is gravy.
BIG STEIN WANTS TO MAKE A BIG SPLASH! LETS GO YANKEES! LETS GET IT #27-IN-06.
They traded HANLEY ramirez, not MANNY ramirez.
my guess is this post was a joke
They traded HANLEY ramirez, not MANNY ramirez.
my guess is this post was a joke
He thinks Juan Pierre's a good player. It ain't no joke.
Thank god Cashman is running the show.
the_coach
11-23-05, 10:06 AM
I'm honestly more worried about Lowell being on the Red Sox than of Beckett.
He's a middle of the road pitcher with some upside, great deal though...the Red Sox gave up next to nothing.
I'm honestly more worried about Lowell being on the Red Sox than of Beckett.
He's a middle of the road pitcher with some upside, great deal though...the Red Sox gave up next to nothing.
They gave up two very good prospects. They took on an injury prone pitcher with a career 117 ERA+ and a money sucking 3b who's best days are way way behind him. If the Yankees made a deal like that I'd cry.
the_coach
11-23-05, 10:17 AM
They gave up two very good prospects. They took on an injury prone pitcher with a career 117 ERA+ and a money sucking 3b who's best days are way way behind him. If the Yankees made a deal like that I'd cry.
I think Lowell will bounce back, especially playing in the bandbox. I'm also not as high on the prospects as some (especially Ramirez)...but that's just an opinion.
I think Lowell will bounce back, especially playing in the bandbox. I'm also not as high on the prospects as some (especially Ramirez)...but that's just an opinion.
How much good will Fenway do for Lowell? And what will the bandbox do to Beckett?
I wonder if George is gonna go crazy now. Beckett to the Sox and Deglado to the Mets. Hopefully Cashman stays calm and cool, regardless of how crazy Steinbrenner goes.
man we need a bridge jumpers fourm already and the season hasn't even started, yikes.
I wonder if George is gonna go crazy now. Beckett to the Sox and Deglado to the Mets. Hopefully Cashman stays calm and cool, regardless of how crazy Steinbrenner goes.
Cashman will stay calm but its George that I fear.
whalers
11-23-05, 10:26 AM
This thread is luncacy. It isnt even Thanksgiving yet.
Chambliss
11-23-05, 10:29 AM
How much good will Fenway do for Lowell? And what will the bandbox do to Beckett?
Lowell can't possibly be as bad in 2006 as he was in 2005; that, in addition to the wall-ball doubles he'll find in Fenway, should make his overall line better. But will he return to pre 2004 form? Probably not. Lowell had a bad second half of the 2004 and a bad 2005; he's never coming close to justifying a 9M contract over the next two years.
As for Beckett, he seems good for slightly less than 100 pitches per outing. Considering that he's moving from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park and pitching in a more offensively oriented division (with the DH), Sox fans may see a good number of "five and dive" starts from Beckett in '06.
This thread is luncacy. It isnt even Thanksgiving yet.
Even if it was Jan 23 we shouldn't be worried. I still don't get why people are upset over the Beckett trade.
Lowell can't possibly be as bad in 2006 as he was in 2005; that, in addition to the wall-ball doubles he'll find in Fenway, should make his overall line better. But will he return to pre 2004 form? Probably not. Lowell had a bad second half of the 2004 and a bad 2005; he's never coming close to justifying a 9M contract over the next two years.
As for Beckett, he seems good for slightly less than 100 pitches per outing. Considering that he's moving from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park and pitching in a more offensively oriented division (with the DH), Sox fans may see a good number of "five and dive" starts from Beckett in '06.
I agree. Also I doubt Beckett stays healthy the whole season. He's been on the DL nine times in 4 years. That's Kevin Brown like.
Chambliss
11-23-05, 10:33 AM
Oh yeah, and this thread is madness. I never understood why it's necessary for the Yankees to "respond" to Boston's moves? What happens if they don't? Yankee fans will suddenly become Boston fans?
Also, how many succesful starts does one need against the Yankees before one becomes a "Yankee killer"?
Chambliss
11-23-05, 10:35 AM
I agree. Also I doubt Beckett stays healthy the whole season. He's been on the DL nine times in 4 years. That's Kevin Brown like.
Yeah, Beckett's health situation is kind of a mystery. Many of the DL stints were related to blister problems, but toward the end of the last year he did miss starts related to muscle strains and arm soreness.
ReggieBar
11-23-05, 10:36 AM
2 things....Beckett CAN BE as dominate as any pitcher in the game. So as much as I hope the AL/NL transistion and his injury history hinder him from becoming the ace of Boston's staff, I am realistic enought to understand the potential is there.
Secondly, we don't need to fill every hole with someone proven. That hasn't seemed to work over the last 5 years so well, has it? Don't forget we entered the 98 season with a platoon of Scott Brosius and Dale Sveum at thirdbase. Sometimes its best to let players emerge without the pressures of having to succeed.
Cashman will stay calm but its George that I fear.
It don't fear George. I think he is letting Cashman do what he wants...for now. It's some of the fans and media I fear.
The media would love to play the Mets against the Yankees and goad George into doing something rash.
I agree. Also I doubt Beckett stays healthy the whole season. He's been on the DL nine times in 4 years. That's Kevin Brown like.
And at least Brown had the excuse of his age. His frequent trips to the DL really started in his mid 30's. Beckett is 25. Is he suppose to get healthier as his body ages? That is not usually how it works.
HipHipJorge
11-23-05, 10:43 AM
I don't see any reason for the Yanks to react to the Beckett signing. We don't need another starting pitcher!!!!!!!!!!!!! and last time I checked Beckett doesn't play centerfield or come out of the pen in relief.
PinstripePride
11-23-05, 10:43 AM
I think he really is Steinbrenner.
ReggieBar
11-23-05, 10:47 AM
I would be a little cautious about the frequency of Becketts DL trips. They have been mostly for a recurring blister problem that may be due to pitching in Florida. I watched several of Beckett's starts in Fla. and his forearms and hands would be soaked in sweat from the heat and moisture. Leiter and Cone had some blister history as well. It seems to go away at some point.
How much good will Fenway do for Lowell? And what will the bandbox do to Beckett?
WHy, just look at what it did for that other dead pull hitter last year- Kevin Millar
People say- "Lowell will bounce back " w/o any knowledge of him
TheTinoMobile
11-23-05, 11:11 AM
Like i said before, it's time to invest in human cloning research. Rivera in every position is our only hope
ryanthe13th
11-23-05, 11:15 AM
You guys are bashing Josh Beckett way too much. Is he the best young pitcher in baseball? No, he isn't. Is he one of the best young pitchers in baseball? Yes, he is. His blister problem is apparently solved and he will be more effective than anyone else Boston would trot out besides him.
Delgado going to the Mets isn't an issue because we have no use for him.
Cashman needs to at least start letting certain free agents know that we're serious about having them on this team. Don't press the panic button, but there is definitely a reason to feel awkward.
JeffWeaverFan
11-23-05, 11:22 AM
Jesus Christ, thank God you aren't running this team.
ryanthe13th
11-23-05, 11:25 AM
Jesus Christ, thank God you aren't running this team.
And thank god you're not running this team. Kyle Farnsworth would be our set up man already.
the_coach
11-23-05, 12:13 PM
How much good will Fenway do for Lowell? And what will the bandbox do to Beckett?
I think it will help his power numbers considerably, (like most flyball hitters). I'm hoping it has the same effect on Beckett. ;)
I just don't think the prospects they gave up are all that great.
And thank god you're not running this team. Kyle Farnsworth would be our set up man already.
I don't think JWF wanted Farnsworth to be the setup man but the 3rd reliever. But then again you think Brian Giles is bad for the Yankees.
Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 12:22 PM
And thank god you're not running this team. Kyle Farnsworth would be our set up man already.
If the Yanks don't sign Gordon, there's not much choice, is there? The Cashman's quote, whether he meant it or not, that he'd be comfortable giving that role to Proctor will come true. God forbid.
iWant27
11-23-05, 12:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=2233264
Good article by Buster Olney
Nice Article . I liked it . And I agree that yankees dont need to fire back in haste and make bad decisions . If healthy , yankees line up of A-rod , Jeter , Sheff , Matsui , Giambi , is great .
cuban_yanksfan
11-23-05, 12:23 PM
Its responses like this that got us in this drought in the first place.
Cashman will take care of everything
BIG STEIN WANTS TO MAKE A BIG SPLASH! LETS GO YANKEES! LETS GET IT #27-IN-06.
I've got an idea, rather than hitting the panic button, what about the "off" button? :P
Its responses like this that got us in this drought in the first place.
Cashman will take care of everything
AGREED! Very well put.
Dooley Womack
11-23-05, 01:54 PM
AGREED! Very well put.
What's up Cashman's sleeve to address middle relief, set-up. CF and SP that makes you so confident that he'll "take care of evrything?" Maybe I'm not in the loop.
BRNXBMRS
11-23-05, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban_yanksfan
Its responses like this that got us in this drought in the first place.
Cashman will take care of everything
AGREED! Very well put.
Its times like these i am glad Cash in charge.
WebsterMulligan
11-23-05, 03:48 PM
we had horrible drafts in the early 00's...thats whats hurting us, not teams conspiring to not trade with us
I completely agree. Most teams are asking for Cano, Wang and/or a few others, which the Yanks are not willing (hopefully) to part with.
Bottomline, the Yanks needs to continue to build up their minor league system.
NYYBombshell
11-23-05, 03:54 PM
Cash is in charge, let the man do his job.
What's up Cashman's sleeve to address middle relief, set-up. CF and SP that makes you so confident that he'll "take care of evrything?" Maybe I'm not in the loop.
Something that doesn't involve screwing the team up for the next five to seven years.
Panamaniac42
11-23-05, 04:55 PM
Let's look at Beckett's supposed domination in the 2003 WS:
Game 3: 7.1 IP, 2 ER, 10 K
This is the lineup he had the pleasure of facing:
1. Soriano (26 K's in the postseason, in case you forgot)
2. Jeter
3. Giambi (hit .250 in 2003, the start of his roid nosedive)
4. Williams (hit .263 with 15 HR in 2003)
5. Matsui (rookie year, .287, 16 HR, .788 OPS)
6. Posada
7. Garcia (lol...Karim Garcia? Whooo is Karim Garcia?)
8. Boone (outside of the pinch hit HR, was downright awful)
9. Mussina (game played in NL park, what can ya do)
Game 6: 9.0 IP, 0 ER, 9 K's
Again, another swiss-cheese lineup for him to feast on:
1. Jeter
2. Johnson ("eh...")
3. Williams
4. Matsui
5. Posada
6. Giambi
7. Garcia
8. Boone
9. Soriano
I love it, Beckett has 1 good game against the Yankees and he's annoited a Yankee killer for ever and ever Amen. Half of the guys that were in the lineup in '03 aren't even on the team anymore.
People tend to forget but we beat him in Game 3 of the '03 World Series. He did only give up 2 runs though and K'd 10. So I guess that does not hold much creedence to what I originally stated. :D
Events of Tuesday, October 21, 2003
NY A 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 4 - 6 6 1
FLA N 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 1 8 0
BOX+PBP
WP: Mussina (1-0)
LP: Beckett (0-1)
SV: M. Rivera (1)
HRs: Williams (2), Boone (1)
SoCal Pinstriper
11-23-05, 05:11 PM
I watched several of Beckett's starts in Fla. and his forearms and hands would be soaked in sweat from the heat and moisture. Leiter and Cone had some blister history as well. It seems to go away at some point.Has he tried the Alou/Posada solution?
Let's look at Beckett's supposed domination in the 2003 WS:
Game 3: 7.1 IP, 2 ER, 10 K
This is the lineup he had the pleasure of facing:
1. Soriano (26 K's in the postseason, in case you forgot)
2. Jeter
3. Giambi (hit .250 in 2003, the start of his roid nosedive)
4. Williams (hit .263 with 15 HR in 2003)
5. Matsui (rookie year, .287, 16 HR, .788 OPS)
6. Posada
7. Garcia (lol...Karim Garcia? Whooo is Karim Garcia?)
8. Boone (outside of the pinch hit HR, was downright awful)
9. Mussina (game played in NL park, what can ya do)
Game 6: 9.0 IP, 0 ER, 9 K's
Again, another swiss-cheese lineup for him to feast on:
1. Jeter
2. Johnson ("eh...")
3. Williams
4. Matsui
5. Posada
6. Giambi
7. Garcia
8. Boone
9. Soriano
Facts shmacts, we're dooooooooooooomed!!!!
StaceyRosie
11-23-05, 05:31 PM
I'm gonna say this again because it needs to be repeated.
IT'S NOVEMBER 23RD.
Christ on a cracker.
We don't know what Cashman has up his sleeve.
I'm gonna say this again because it needs to be repeated.
IT'S NOVEMBER 23RD.
Christ on a cracker.
We don't know what Cashman has up his sleeve.
Hopefully not Christ on a Cracker. Cash needs tp concentrate on baseball and not religious food.
puckmaster87
11-23-05, 05:48 PM
Josh Beckett has a history of not pitching well away from home. Most statisticians project him as a 3.50-3.70 ERA #2 guy in the rotation.
WebsterMulligan
11-23-05, 05:53 PM
I'm gonna say this again because it needs to be repeated.
IT'S NOVEMBER 23RD.
Christ on a cracker.
We don't know what Cashman has up his sleeve.
I completely agree. He could end up pulling another A-Rod deal for all we know. That deal was'nt consummated until February, IIRC.
Josh Beckett has a history of not pitching well away from home. Most statisticians project him as a 3.50-3.70 ERA #2 guy in the rotation.
I see him having more of a 4.30-4.40 ERA.
StaceyRosie
11-23-05, 05:55 PM
I completely agree. He could end up pulling another A-Rod deal for all we know. That deal was'nt consummated until February, IIRC.
Valentine's Day 2004. I remember it well. It was one of the worst and best days of my life.
I Love Wang
11-23-05, 06:15 PM
Josh Beckett has a history of not pitching well away from home. Most statisticians project him as a 3.50-3.70 ERA #2 guy in the rotation.
Nonsense. He's been a 3.50-3.70 type pitching in the NL with half of his games at Pro Player. Moving to Fenway in the AL, I'm thinking more along the lines of 4.25-4.50.
scull567
11-23-05, 06:19 PM
Nonsense. He's been a 3.50-3.70 type pitching in the NL with half of his games at Pro Player. Moving to Fenway in the AL, I'm thinking more along the lines of 4.25-4.50.
ZiPS projects a 3.88 for Beckett in Fenway Park.
ZiPS projects a 3.88 for Beckett in Fenway Park.
With about 170 IP :2thumbs:.
I Love Wang
11-23-05, 06:27 PM
ZiPS projects a 3.88 for Beckett in Fenway Park.
Great. I Love Wang predicts a 4.25-4.50 ERA for Beckett pitching in Fenway.
StaceyRosie
11-23-05, 06:28 PM
Great. I Love Wang predicts a 4.25-4.50 ERA for Beckett pitching in Fenway.
:roflmao:
scull567
11-23-05, 06:30 PM
Great. I Love Wang predicts a 4.25-4.50 ERA for Beckett pitching in Fenway.
Cool. Could you explain your projection system to me? Or is it just Beckett....red sox.....grrr.....he'll suck. ;)
Cool. Could you explain your projection system to me? Or is it just Beckett....red sox.....grrr.....he'll suck. ;)
I think its more like road ERA 4.30 in NL, moving to Fenway and the AL east. Hahahahahahah.
Little Big Sheff
11-23-05, 06:46 PM
Josh Beckett has a history of not pitching well away from home. Most statisticians project him as a 3.50-3.70 ERA #2 guy in the rotation.
I see him over 4.00
Little Big Sheff
11-23-05, 06:48 PM
Cool. Could you explain your projection system to me? Or is it just Beckett....red sox.....grrr.....he'll suck. ;)
Let's start with :
2.47 / 4.31 Home away splits in 2005
2.87 / 4.10 Home away splits for 2002-2004
I Love Wang
11-23-05, 06:51 PM
Cool. Could you explain your projection system to me? Or is it just Beckett....red sox.....grrr.....he'll suck. ;)
He's never had an ERA under 4 outside of pro player, and he's not going to be pitching there anymore. Instead, he's going to be pitching in a park that dramatically INcreases run production, and, not to mention, he's going from a league wher pitchers hit to a league where Travis Hafner hits, instead. Is that good enough, or do you have any more snotty comments to make?
Why don't you take a look at the Zips projections in the past couple years of some other pitchers that changed leagues, like Javier Vazquez and Randy Johnson?
scull567
11-23-05, 06:58 PM
Let's start with :
2.47 / 4.31 Home away splits in 2005
2.87 / 4.10 Home away splits for 2002-2004
Home career FIP: 3.33
Road career FIP: 3.64
Not that big of a deal.
I Love Wang
11-23-05, 07:04 PM
Home career FIP: 3.33
Road career FIP: 3.64
Not that big of a deal.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
George Steinbrenner
11-23-05, 07:09 PM
Are you kidding? There's no way that Beckett is as good as Santana, Peavy, Oswalt, Zambrano, Dontrelle, Lackey, or Harden. He's certainly not an "absolute ace."
Theres a reason I said ARGUABLY. You could make a case that Santanna and Oswalt are a bit better. But he's better definitely better than Lackey and he has just as nasty stuff as the rest of those guys. He has dominant shutdown ACE potential. This aint a no "NL" pitcher this guy has a consistent 95+ fastball, deadly power sinker AND a good curveball. Ask any big league scout and theyll tell you hes a young ace in the making, with potential (if healthy and no blisters) to be a dominant starter. I didnt say lets get Delgado in particular (too late now anyway) Im just throwing some names out there. The important part is getting a top tier setup man, hopefully 2, out of the group of Ryan, Wagner, Gordon, Wickman (in order of preference)
I Love Wang
11-23-05, 07:12 PM
Theres a reason I said ARGUABLY. You could make a case that Santanna and Oswalt are a bit better. But he's better definitely better than Lackey and he has just as nasty stuff as the rest of those guys. He has dominant shutdown ACE potential. This aint a no "NL" pitcher this guy has a consistent 95+ fastball, deadly power sinker AND a good curveball. Ask any big league scout and theyll tell you hes a young ace in the making, with potential (if healthy and no blisters) to be a dominant starter. I didnt say lets get Delgado in particular (too late now anyway) Im just throwing some names out there. The important part is getting a top tier setup man, hopefully 2, out of the group of Ryan, Wagner, Gordon, Wickman (in order of preference)
Your argument sucks. Lackey, along with every other guy I posted, has been far more productive than Beckett. If its arguable, lets hear an argument for how he's better than Johan Santana?
George Steinbrenner
11-23-05, 07:12 PM
don't lie beckett has incredible stuff...coming out of texas they said he had better stuff than kerry wood and u know when beckett is on..he is great..his only concern is injury and it's a big one but don't treat the man like he's not part of the elite.
thank you. WHEN HEALTHY (meaning no finger blisters) he is deadly scary and we should at least be concerned that Boston has acquired itself a potential shutdown ace for years to come.
scull567
11-23-05, 07:15 PM
He's never had an ERA under 4 outside of pro player, and he's not going to be pitching there anymore. Instead, he's going to be pitching in a park that dramatically INcreases run production, and, not to mention, he's going from a league wher pitchers hit to a league where Travis Hafner hits, instead. Is that good enough, or do you have any more snotty comments to make?
Why don't you take a look at the Zips projections in the past couple years of some other pitchers that changed leagues, like Javier Vazquez and Randy Johnson?
I seee now. The I Love Wang projection system is much more accurate than zips. Great stuff.
George Steinbrenner
11-23-05, 07:17 PM
So they got Josh Beckett. Big deal. They still have to deal with many other issues. Let Beckett pitch a bit in the AL and we'll see what happens--could be good, could be Pavano (who was 18-8 in 2004 for the now Flying Out of Miami Fish). Isn't he a free agent in a year or so when he does his five years?
Lowell--also who knows? Could be Brosious replay for the Sox.
Now if the Sox toss Manny and somehow get Delgado, then they have someone to protect Ortiz again, and then we'll see.
My guess, with Giles being an idiot about not talking to Torre et al, I suspect that the Y's are looking hard at Damon (and holding their collective noses). Boras will not pull another Beltran on them--this will get done, one way or another, before the end of the year. And if it doesn't--Bubba can play defense, and we do not really need the extra bat with this lineup.
BJ Ryan would be a fool not to take the Y's offer of closer money ($9 million or so per year), a 4 year contract, and 2 years to learn everything Mariano knows before having the chance (and the stage) to become another great closer in his image. Isn't that what Mo did with Wettland? If he doesn't take that offer (which should be every potential closer's dream) he doesn't have the makeup to make it in NY anyway.
Gordon will close, allright, for Detroit or some other low end club desperate enough to give a 38 year old with a history of a dead arm among other health issues a 3 year contract. Or he will wisen up and finish his career here, among players, fans, and coaches that know him well and appreciate him. If he is smart enough, maybe a performace based 3rd year option could be worked out.
Don't underestimate Cashman or overestimate Luccino. ARod and Chacon were good unexpected moves. Give it some time.
To be honest, what they have now (with the exception of 1-2 BP arms) isn't too bad.
I agree with everything you said (especially about Ryan) but Im in the Beckett camp and Im telling you hes a star. He hasnt put together a Cy Young season yet, but being around a guy like Schilling and pitching in a high stress, postseason like environment (where we've seen him thrive firsthand) makes me nervous. As much as I love Wang and Chacon, Beckett is on a higher level than them.
George Steinbrenner
11-23-05, 07:24 PM
Your argument sucks. Lackey, along with every other guy I posted, has been far more productive than Beckett. If its arguable, lets hear an argument for how he's better than Johan Santana?
you and your argument suck and i remember why I stopped coming to this board in the first place. All you peons acting like you know something about baseball because you bought a big book on statistics and all sorts of wacky formulas to learn who the best players are. I dont have the energy to get into a big project here. I said yes Santana and Oswalt are better than Beckett. And Im also telling you that all those guys you mentioned are in the same class as Beckett as far as raw stuff and potential to DOMINATE. And this potential has only been stopped by injury. Its not like he hasnt proven himself and CARRIED a team on his back all the way to a championship while still under the age of 25. Guys as talented as Beckett are few and far between, and whether or not you think so is irrelevant.
Dont act like an expert on the game because chances are I was playing and watching the Yanks while you were crappin in your Pampers.
Little Big Sheff
11-23-05, 07:27 PM
Dont act like an expert on the game because chances are I was playing and watching the Yanks while you were crappin in your Pampers.
Brilliant.
you and your argument suck and i remember why I stopped coming to this board in the first place.
You and me both.
you and your argument suck and i remember why I stopped coming to this board in the first place. All you peons acting like you know something about baseball because you bought a big book on statistics and all sorts of wacky formulas to learn who the best players are. I dont have the energy to get into a big project here. I said yes Santana and Oswalt are better than Beckett. And Im also telling you that all those guys you mentioned are in the same class as Beckett as far as raw stuff and potential to DOMINATE. And this potential has only been stopped by injury. Its not like he hasnt proven himself and CARRIED a team on his back all the way to a championship while still under the age of 25. Guys as talented as Beckett are few and far between, and whether or not you think so is irrelevant.
Dont act like an expert on the game because chances are I was playing and watching the Yanks while you were crappin in your Pampers.
:lol: You can't defend Beckett so you go ahead and insult ILW. Good job!
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