What about Looper for a setup man? [Archive]

Panamaniac42

11-22-05, 01:01 AM

I think so. He is a good reliever and wasn't an ideal closer from the start. The FO is probably too dumb to realize this because they appear set on exploring guys like Jose Veras and Jose Mesa.

you could certainly do worse.

plus when we face the indians we know he'll poop all over aaron boone.

NYDCYankee

11-22-05, 01:02 AM

Ha I just wrote in another thread. I certainly think that it is a good option. We need to bring in as many quality arms as possible and Looper certainly is one. I think we might be able to get him cheap due to the disappointment he was last year.

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 01:26 AM

If Looper can get his G/F ratio back up, he could be a decent option out of the pen. We'll see if it goes down that way. I'd never sign him as an 8th inning guy.

JeffWeaverFan

11-22-05, 01:31 AM

NYDCYankee

11-22-05, 01:33 AM

If Looper can get his G/F ratio back up, he could be a decent option out of the pen. We'll see if it goes down that way. I'd never sign him as an 8th inning guy.

Would you rather give 3 years to Gordon?

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 01:38 AM

Would you rather give 3 years to Gordon?

I'm sorry, are Looper and Gordon the only two pitchers left on the FA market? No? Then your question means precisely dick. My first pick for the 8th inning guy is Kyle Farnsworth, who I would give 3 years to. After that would be Rudy Seanez, who I wouldn't. Gordon is going to give me draft picks.

NYDCYankee

11-22-05, 01:42 AM

I'm sorry, are Looper and Gordon the only two pitchers left on the FA market? No? Then your question means precisely dick. My first pick for the 8th inning guy is Kyle Farnsworth, who I would give 3 years to. After that would be Rudy Seanez, who I wouldn't. Gordon is going to give me draft picks.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic with you, I was just throwing it out there. I actually still think we are going to get Ryan anyway and I know that there are a ton of options still out there.

StatenIslandYankee

11-22-05, 01:44 AM

Would you rather give 3 years to Gordon?
WFAN said Red Sox are interested in signing him to close.

NYDCYankee

11-22-05, 01:45 AM

WFAN said Red Sox are interested in signing him to close.

I know. I say let them have em. Especially if they are going to give him 3 years. Though I think he would accept 2 years to close and 3 years to set up.

ryanthe13th

11-22-05, 01:53 AM

Jaeho

11-22-05, 03:34 AM

Why is Octavio Dotel getting over looked?

Because he is coming off a major injury? You take a flyer on a player like Dotel. You don't sign him as your top setup man.

I think so. He is a good reliever and wasn't an ideal closer from the start. The FO is probably too dumb to realize this because they appear set on exploring guys like Jose Veras and Jose Mesa.

I know Jose Veras was awesome enough to earn his very own thread here, but do you really think the Yankee FO is "exploring" him as an option to setup? Or maybe he was just a six year minor league free agent they signed, and for some odd reason, the move made the sportswire and even got the stupid headline he was replacing Flash. What do you think?

mbn007

11-22-05, 06:01 AM

The Mets passed on Loopers option. Why is Octavio Dotel getting over looked? Jose Mesa is god awful now and would end up being another Paul Quantrill.

The more this offseason progresses, the more I shake my head.
Because of his surgery last year, Dotel needs to wait until teams sort out the signings of Ryan, Wagner, Hoffman, Gordon, Farnsworth, Howry. Then he will get a deal from a team that lost out. It will be an incentive laden deal.

But I think he is worth the gamble. Sort of like Lieber.

aeromac76

11-22-05, 07:13 AM

I don't trust him. He'd be fine for a 7th inning guy but that's it. Plus, I'm pretty sure the Mets either have a team option on him or he is under contract for next year so as of right now, he's not a free agent.

Mets already declined his option, he is indeed a free agent..
And yes, I'd like to have him. He was moderately decent in NY as a closer, and as a 7th inning guy, why not? Heck he was big time against us in the WS a few years back..

YankClipper5

11-22-05, 08:14 AM

I know. I say let them have em. Especially if they are going to give him 3 years. Though I think he would accept 2 years to close and 3 years to set up.

I think the Sox are making the same mistakes the Yankees started with 5 years ago. They are taking on 13 million and an injury risk while giving up 2 stud prospects. Offering 3 years to Gordon would be another bad contract move given his age. I say the Yanks get Looper as another arm in the pen, you can't have enough quality arms out there, maybe as a 7th inning guy who can be worked in with Sturtze or in place of him in the even Sturtze continues to be ineffective as he was in the second half.

Yankyfan

11-22-05, 08:17 AM

Good Idea IMO as long as he doesn't close.

BroadwayBomber55

11-22-05, 10:21 AM

I like the idea for Branden Looper as a set-up man, but the Yankees must be aware of his control problems.

Just don't put him in the closer role.

gold23

11-22-05, 10:23 AM

He'd be a solid addition. He'd be a setup man- something he'd likely be pretty good doing.

BroadwayBomber55

11-22-05, 10:24 AM

He'd be a solid addition. He'd be a setup man- something he'd likely be pretty good doing.

Well, I hope Joe Kerrigan and Rod Guidry can fix Looper's control problems.

NelsonMuntz

11-22-05, 10:27 AM

Looper is terrible.

StatenIslandYankee

11-22-05, 10:29 AM

Looper is terrible.
As a closer, YES. But with Flash and Ryan out of the mix is there a better setup option?

gold23

11-22-05, 10:30 AM

Looper is terrible.

The thing is, he's not. I don't want him closing, no doubt. And he's not close to as good as the other pitchers that are available. But many of them want to close.

If Looper signs a contract that pays him like he would share the primary set up role or become the third guy out of the pen, I don't know why there shouldn't be interest.

How about this- right now, he'd be the second best pitcher in the Yankee pen. That is why there should be a little interest.

nyg02005

11-22-05, 10:39 AM

Loope is not great but good. He seems to be a good guy, never complain publicly like when he was replaced by urbina.

JeffWeaverFan

11-22-05, 11:58 AM

Mets already declined his option, he is indeed a free agent..
And yes, I'd like to have him. He was moderately decent in NY as a closer, and as a 7th inning guy, why not? Heck he was big time against us in the WS a few years back..
Well then, I'd sign him or Howry to be the 7th inning guy.

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 12:00 PM

I'd rather have Looper in the 7th than Howry.

NewEraYanks2527

11-22-05, 01:14 PM

I'd sign Looper, maybe out of that closer role he can really shine.

gdn

11-22-05, 01:18 PM

He seemed to be doing OK two-three years ago. Last year he sort of imploded, but maybe out of the pressure packed 9th, he can get it together again. Worth a low-money deal.

Jersey Yankee

11-22-05, 02:11 PM

Almost anyone who's closed for awhile should be good in the 7th inning. While I wasn't too crazy about Armando Benitez, if Looper can work under less pressure, I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, I'm wondering if the Yanks are too interested in big-name players. It's almost like "Ryan, Farnsworth or bust". I'd rather come out with more than nada. If we get Looper, fine. If we get Farnsworth in addition to this, that's icing on the cake.

Mark19

11-22-05, 02:16 PM

If Looper gets an offer from the Tigers, Padres or Orioles to close, I'm sure he'll take it.

If not, I'm all about the former closers. That means Cash needs to start dialing up Dotel and Looper quick.

Yanks Lifer

11-22-05, 02:29 PM

I'd sign Looper, maybe out of that closer role he can really shine.

I have the same thoughts about Dotel. While at it, offer Florida a marginal prospect for Mota who was fine in LA as a setup man.

NewEraYanks2527

11-22-05, 02:35 PM

I have the same thoughts about Dotel. While at it, offer Florida a marginal prospect for Mota who was fine in LA as a setup man. I am with you 100% on Dotel, but doesn't he have an injury that will put him out till 2007? I'd like to see a Leiber type recovery deal with Dotel. As far as 2006 goes, a pen with Looper, Gordon, possibly Farnsworth, Rincon and maybe Myers leading up to Rivera could be crazy enough to work.

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 02:57 PM

I don't think many teams will be in a hurry to make Looper their closer.

Yanks Lifer

11-22-05, 03:03 PM

I am with you 100% on Dotel, but doesn't he have an injury that will put him out till 2007? I'd like to see a Leiber type recovery deal with Dotel. As far as 2006 goes, a pen with Looper, Gordon, possibly Farnsworth, Rincon and maybe Myers leading up to Rivera could be crazy enough to work.

I've seen some stories that say he'll be ready for 2006. I'm assuming a Lieber type deal as you are, but possibly adding a third year since he'll put in less innings per year.

surge511

11-22-05, 03:17 PM

I think the Sox are making the same mistakes the Yankees started with 5 years ago. They are taking on 13 million and an injury risk while giving up 2 stud prospects. Offering 3 years to Gordon would be another bad contract move given his age. I say the Yanks get Looper as another arm in the pen, you can't have enough quality arms out there, maybe as a 7th inning guy who can be worked in with Sturtze or in place of him in the even Sturtze continues to be ineffective as he was in the second half.

I was just thinking that. The payroll is rising, and they are trading away future for present. If it unfolded like it did for the Yankees, Beckett would be hurt all '06, and Lowell will be dead wood they can't get rid of.

NewEraYanks2527

11-22-05, 03:26 PM

Looper would also be a better option for the 7th than Sturtze.

Jace

11-22-05, 03:48 PM

WFAN said Red Sox are interested in signing him to close.

It seems like the Red Sox would have to be insane to sign 38 yr old Gordon before BJ Ryan (if Ryan will play for them) to close unless they are trying to save money. And I don't know that even that would be worth it, with the way that Gordon is likely to finish out that contract.

brosiusbuddy

11-22-05, 04:07 PM

If Flash and Ryan want to close, would Looper be a decent option?

................ty closer = good set up??? I'll pass.

hellonewman

11-22-05, 04:15 PM

He was moderately decent in NY as a closer, and as a 7th inning guy, why not?

Well then, I'd sign him or Howry to be the 7th inning guy.

I'd rather have Looper in the 7th than Howry.

Looper would also be a better option for the 7th than Sturtze.It's a mistake to slot Looper into a particular inning. You maximize his effectiveness by using him Jeff Nelson-style, not scripted to a particular inning but to game situations in which you have a lot of righty hitters coming up.

I posted these splits in the Ryan thread:
OPS Against, 2002-04
Vs. right: .575
Vs. left: .822

OPS against, 2005
vs. right: .551
vs. left: .985 (ESPN had it as .979 last week when I posted these numbers in the Ryan thread, but has mysteriously changed it a little.)

It would be a foolish mistake to commit to Looper as a "7th inning guy," because if you happen to have a bunch of lefties coming up that inning, you'll get killed. He needs to be used situationally. My fear is that Torre wouldn't have the creativity to do this. He did with Nelson, but Nelson's height, oddball delivery and distinctive "frisbee" slider screamed "righty specialist." Looper, not so much.

NewEraYanks2527

11-22-05, 04:35 PM

It would be a foolish mistake to commit to Looper as a "7th inning guy," because if you happen to have a bunch of lefties coming up that inning, you'll get killed. He needs to be used situationally. My fear is that Torre wouldn't have the creativity to do this. He did with Nelson, but Nelson's height, oddball delivery and distinctive "frisbee" slider screamed "righty specialist." Looper, not so much.
You are correct, thinking about it I actually would rather see less defined roles and more of a best possible matchup scenario when it comes to the innings leading up to Mo. It worked great for the White Sox. No defined spots would be good, 3 righties come up send in the Loop, a couple of lefties, put in a left handed specialist.

Kulish29

11-22-05, 04:35 PM

It may be just me but, every time I saw that guy come in to close a game for the Mets, he blew it.

It was like watching a dark comedy.

Mark19

11-22-05, 04:37 PM

Looper is a smart option but until Joe learns how to properly manage a pen, there are very few relievers who are talented and durable enough to remain completely effective all season long.

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 04:50 PM

I like Looper as a middle relief-6th/7th inning type because he gets ground ball outs. Given that we're stuck with Sturtze, I'd like to see a pen of Rivera, Farnsworth/Seanez, Rincon, maybe Looper, and either Bean, Smith, or Anderson. Personally, I wouldn't have brought Sturtze back, and instead would have given his job to Anderson and Bean.

NelsonMuntz

11-22-05, 07:17 PM

I Love Wang

11-22-05, 07:19 PM

Bean? Seriously?

Seriously, Bean. Or are you going to tell me that based on his 2 major league innings, that he's going to be a 4.50 pitcher forever?

NelsonMuntz

11-22-05, 07:20 PM

It may be just me but, every time I saw that guy come in to close a game for the Mets, he blew it.

It was like watching a dark comedy.
Yeah same here. I remember the game against the Nationals where the Mets blew a huge lead (I think 8 runs) and Looper gave up most of them. And I work with a big Mets fan who was always complaining about how much Looper sucks. His standard greeting whenever he saw me was "You guys want Looper? You can have him".

Dooley Womack

11-23-05, 02:26 AM

It just might come down to Looper or Proctor.

NelsonMuntz

11-23-05, 09:11 AM

It just might come down to Looper or Proctor.
If that's the case I think I'd go with Proctor. He's cheaper, and he has better K rates than Looper. And Maybe Kerrigan can help him with his control problems.

The Dynasty

11-23-05, 09:13 AM

If that's the case I think I'd go with Proctor. He's cheaper, and he has better K rates than Looper. And Maybe Kerrigan can help him with his control problems.

Agreed. Proctor is fiddling with that 12-to-6 knucklecurve-type looking pitch. If he can decrease the velocity of his fastball to about 92MPH, work in that curve, and add a cutter or slider, he'll be a beast.

cuban_yanksfan

11-23-05, 11:23 AM

living in Florida and watching every inning of marlins baseball the past 3 seasons, I'll consider myself the authority on former Marlins scouting reports.

Looper's knees shake when he falls 1-0 to a batter in a pressure situation. He doesn't have enough confidence in his slider to throw it early in counts so he is predictable with fastballs. He is only dominant when he's throwing a good 2-seamer at the knees and the hard 4-seam (which is always good) at the hands level. If he does not have perfect command on a given night, he either takes some off the FB or elevates it (ding-dong!). For the most part, when a closer should be defusing the bomb, he's cutting the wrong wire.

You don't want this guy setting-up or even pitching for you when chips are down, especially for the best team in the world.