View Full Version : Pavano wants out (per NJ Star Ledger)
NewEraYanks2527
11-18-05, 08:53 AM
"Right-hander Carl Pavano, who signed a four-year contract with the Yankees a year ago, has been telling friends he wants out.
A person who spoke with Pavano late in the 2005 season said Pavano was "miserable" with the Yankees and that he would like the team to try to trade him this winter. He has not yet asked the Yankees to trade him, and he might not make the request formal, but he might not have to."
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1132321522114480.xml&coll=1
You'll have to put in your zip code and birthday to read the whole thing, but what does everyone think of that. I don't know how much stock I put in it, afterall, we did hear something similar during the season last year didnt we?
StaceyRosie
11-18-05, 08:54 AM
Don't let the door hit ya in the ass Carl!
NelsonMuntz
11-18-05, 08:56 AM
If it yields us a centerfielder and/or some bullpen help, then so be it.
Kulish29
11-18-05, 08:58 AM
I'll believe it when Carl says something. Otherwise, it's the same BS from last season.
BillAlex
11-18-05, 08:58 AM
I cant imagine his trade value is very high at this point :mad:
nice timing Carl. wasnt it a life long dream to play for the Yanks?
sundstrom
11-18-05, 09:00 AM
this is just a reprint of last summer's rumor.
hardrain
11-18-05, 09:00 AM
Good riddance, Carl...GO.......
THEBOSS84
11-18-05, 09:00 AM
This is the best news I have heard all offseason.
At this point if they can back anything remotely close to a talented player for this overpaid pitcher, I'd be happy.
apolansk
11-18-05, 09:01 AM
wasnt it a life long dream to play for the Yanks?
He played for the Yankees....for half a season.
effdamets
11-18-05, 09:08 AM
Worthless piece of garbage! You know, players ought to get their slaries taken away (or at least a percentage) if they do sh*t like this....
What a wimpy.... I can't even think of the adjectives right now!!!!!
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 09:12 AM
I have serious doubts to the validity of this story. What happened to Pavano for him to feel this way? I don't remember any bad incidents in which a player like Pavano would want to give up after pitching for the Yankees just three months before he was injured.
Okay, I just read who wrote this story, enough said about the validity issue.
Dr. Gonzo
11-18-05, 09:16 AM
Wow, how people turn on someone.
I don't think he wants to go anywhere, I really think these guys make it up and quote a source.
I really hope people are this harsch on you at work as well.
whalers
11-18-05, 09:17 AM
The source of this article is a "person close to Carl" I wonder if this is the same person who said that he wanted to play for the sox because he was from NE and grew up a sox fan. Until Carl or his agent come out and say this I have a hard time believing this.
nyg02005
11-18-05, 09:17 AM
If he wants to get traded this winter, he should have tried to come back and pitch in 2005 season. His trade value is down right now.
Kulish29
11-18-05, 09:19 AM
The source of this article is a "person close to Carl" I wonder if this is the same person who said that he wanted to play for the sox because he was from NE and grew up a sox fan. Until Carl or his agent come out and say this I have a hard time believing this.
Exactly. It's the, "person familiar with (insert name here)'s thinking." BS
vegematarian
11-18-05, 09:25 AM
I'll believe it when he says it.
Espinosa's Glasses
11-18-05, 09:26 AM
I could seriously only hope that this is true... cause he is a pretty nice chip
YankeeFan1
11-18-05, 09:27 AM
Again, I find this rumor really hard to believe. The guy was a Yankee fan as a kid. I just don't believe that he wants to leave without giving his best for one whole healthy season.
Also, even if true, the Yankees simply must not trade him. They cannot keep giving up young pitchers for older ones.
ICEBERG18
11-18-05, 09:27 AM
I've heard this song already......
yanksphan
11-18-05, 09:33 AM
Another Graziano gem.....yawn.
BRNXBMRS
11-18-05, 09:35 AM
If the Yanks trade him, I hope they dont give him away. Anyone else hear the Washburn rumor?
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MTc2MTEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
jonnyc39
11-18-05, 09:35 AM
Send him to the Sox for Clement. ;)
Jim Roche
11-18-05, 09:38 AM
Send him to the Nationals for Wilkerson, then sign Joey Eishen...
I'll wait until I hear it from his mouth.
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 09:48 AM
If he really does want out then good riddance.
If he doesn't, then I just hope he pitches as well as he can in 2006.
noneckwilliams
11-18-05, 09:50 AM
I could seriously only hope that this is true... cause he is a pretty nice chip
I'm not sure how great a chip he is making big bucks and with big question marks about his health. They won't get much for Pavano at this point and would likely have to pay a chunk of his $$$.
I'd keep him.
knickfan23
11-18-05, 09:52 AM
I have serious doubts to the validity of this story. What happened to Pavano for him to feel this way? I don't remember any bad incidents in which a player like Pavano would want to give up after pitching for the Yankees just three months before he was injured.
Okay, I just read who wrote this story, enough said about the validity issue.
There were rumblings about this in July in Newsday, so this is nothing new. The whole stuff about him growing up a Yanks fan and stuff was all potential garbage. They probably had the Red Sox stuff in the other room so the cameras couldnt see it.
As far as people wanting to trade him for Wilkerson, consider this:
Why would the Nats trade for a guy who missed the last 3 months of the season with a mysterious shoulder ailment that never cleared up, makes 10 million a year, and struggled in his first 3 months for us.
Its not like we're in a position of strength here with these other teams.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 09:54 AM
This is all bullsh*t unless the guy is traded and confirms it. Yet more "sources according to his thinking" crap.
The guy could have gone virtually anywhere he wanted last off-season and made the same/more money. He wanted to be here. I bet he still does.
patrick.o
11-18-05, 09:55 AM
I heard from a source close to the Ledger's source that Carl hates when his egg yolk is runny.
If anyone from the Ledger is reading this, I guarantee you that Carl will be in pinstripes in April. You don't need to quote me anonomously, tell 'em patrick.o said so.
Espinosa's Glasses
11-18-05, 09:56 AM
I'm not sure how great a chip he is making big bucks and with big question marks about his health. They won't get much for Pavano at this point and would likely have to pay a chunk of his $$$.
I'd keep him.
They could get something better than garbage.... people need pitching especially this offseason where it seems like there is none...
I agree though... I mean you aren't going to get a superstar... but probably something better than Bubba Crosby
yanksconstantino24
11-18-05, 10:02 AM
I can understand why Pavano is miserable. I would be too if I missed most of a season due to injury. However, I don't believe that he wants to be traded. (I don't believe anything that comes after "A source close to....")
I'm also not ready to give up on Pavano after only a half a season. I think he's a better pitcher than what he showed. I certainly wouldn't give him away.
iWant27
11-18-05, 10:02 AM
I really hate this guy . Last year when he signed the contract for big money , didnt he realize the expectations playing for yankees . Now he has his money , he wants a easier life . As***** . I really hate this chickensh**** .
patrick.o
11-18-05, 10:02 AM
The whole stuff about him growing up a Yanks fan and stuff was all potential garbage. They probably had the Red Sox stuff in the other room so the cameras couldnt see it.
Not so. Carl grew up two towns over and I remember when the Sox drafted him the story was that he was happy that he might get to play so close to home, but the irony was that he was a Yankees fan getting his chance with the Sox. There was a quote in the paper that was something like, "well I guess I'm a Red Sox fan now."
NYDCYankee
11-18-05, 10:05 AM
I think he just misses Alyssa Milano. Can't blame the guy really.
I heard a rumor that Pavano eats babies as part of his offseason workout regimen....
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 10:09 AM
They could get something better than garbage.... people need pitching especially this offseason where it seems like there is none...
Just wait until A.J. Burnett gets 5 years, $70 million. Even with his crappy 2005 Pavano will start looking like a bargain to some GMs.
Wang's Groundballs
11-18-05, 10:10 AM
I heard a rumor that Pavano eats babies as part of his offseason workout regimen....
That's David Ortiz. And hey, it seems to work so I can't knock him.
Signing Pavano was one of many mistakes made last winter.
noneckwilliams
11-18-05, 10:12 AM
I'll wait until I hear it from his mouth.
I can understand why Pavano is miserable. I would be too if I missed most of a season due to injury. However, I don't believe that he wants to be traded. (I don't believe anything that comes after "A source close to....")
I'm also not ready to give up on Pavano after only a half a season. I think he's a better pitcher than what he showed. I certainly wouldn't give him away.
There's probably an element of truth to this story since it's not the first time something like this has been reported. CP had a frustrating season (getting booed of the mound in May or June probably doesn't help) and remember there was that story in Aug/Sept about he and the Yankees having differing opinions about his health status.
Still, I wouldn't dump this guy and whatever problems he may have will be forgotten after a couple of quality starts in April/May 2006.
ICEBERG18
11-18-05, 10:13 AM
It's the, "person familiar with (insert name here)'s thinking." BS
Their seems to be a lot of that going around..............
World Champions NYY
11-18-05, 10:13 AM
Just a thought, but the fact that Pavano hasn't made an issue of denying it might make me wonder.
I know people's personalities are different, but if it were me and false and anonymous statements were being printed in newspapers that I wanted off the team, I'd make sure that the papers, the fans, and my teammates were aware that it was a bunch of crap.
If true, I won't miss him...Yanks need a strong CF alot more than they need CP's arm right now...
YankClipper5
11-18-05, 10:21 AM
I think Pavano wanted to pitch for the team he grew up rooting for but can't handle the pressure, he has good stuff but he was never the Ace that last years FA market made him out to be. I think he could be an excellent pitcher for some team. Many teams are desperate for pitching and the market is thin so he may look attractive to some teams. A couple suggestions regarding trading Pavano:
1) For prospects from a pitching starved team i.e. Texas which can be used to land Rowand, Bradley, or Corey Patterson (I am not endorsing these guys, simply assuming they are the most readily available)
2) To the Dodgers for Bradley perhaps straight up, I don't know how feasible this is but hey, worth a shot. I would perhaps even work some lower regarded prospects into the deal.
3) Dream Scenario: If the Jays lose out on Burnett, send him there with perhaps Sheff or Posada (preferably Posada) and some good prospects or another expendable pitcher (Small) and prospects of some combination for Vernon Wells. Subsequent openings to be offered to Giles or Jacque Jones for RF (choose between younger vs. talent) or Ramon Hernandez for catcher (outside shot at Jojima, but he may be locked up by then)
Any thoughts on these situations?
ShaneTravis
11-18-05, 10:25 AM
Moot point in trading him now. No, team is going to trade anything of value for a pitcher who has an arm problem, has visited Dr. Andrews, 1.47 .315 4.77, and three more years @ 30 million to go.
Makes sense to have him come back healthy and wait for a hot streak of solid pitching from him and then decide if it makes sense to trade Carl.
With 7 starting pitchers on the roster next season the Yanks (for once) can go to spring training and let 7 guys compete for 5 spots.
If the Yanks are lucky and all are performing well, revisit the teams that showed interest in signing him last off season and see if there is a match.
Irabu's Son
11-18-05, 10:27 AM
WAAAAAAAAAH I don't like playing for the Yankees anymore WAAAAAAAAAAAH
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 10:28 AM
This is just a rehash of what was said last year. It was questionable then and questionable now. Some writers just can't come up with anything new.
Martini6196
11-18-05, 10:40 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think Pavano can be a big part of this team's success next year? I hope they give him another shot to prove himself.
This is just a rehash of what was said last year. It was questionable then and questionable now. Some writers just can't come up with anything new.
And plenty of writers come up with plenty of new stuff and most of it is crap and most of the people believe it and react.
It's amazing. These writers have no accountability for what they write. None.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 10:44 AM
This is all bullsh*t unless the guy is traded and confirms it. Yet more "sources according to his thinking" crap.
The guy could have gone virtually anywhere he wanted last off-season and made the same/more money. He wanted to be here. I bet he still does.
Why is it so inconceivable that a player didn't actually like it in NY? Usually, when there is this much smoke, there is fire.
My guess is that when we do finally get rid of this guy, he will say how much he disliked it in NY. I wonder about his heart and still wonder about his injury.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 10:45 AM
Just a thought, but the fact that Pavano hasn't made an issue of denying it might make me wonder.
Yep. There have been plenty of times when a sports figure is rumored to not like it in a certain place or wants to be traded and usually, that person makes it known that that is not the case. Herman Edwards just recently denied that he wanted to leave the Jets after there were rumors. The fact that Pavano has kept his mouth shut about this, instead of ending it very easily by stating that he wants to stay, speaks volumes.
CaptainThurman
11-18-05, 11:02 AM
Wonder when George will begin calling him a "fat, pussy toad".....
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 11:04 AM
Send him to the Sox for Clement. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
Remember when Yankee & Sox fans argued over who was the better signing -- Pavano or Clement? Ah, good times. :)
Hey...has the gossip that Pavano's problems weren't 100% physical ever been totally dismissed? (Like with a MRI or other definitive medical study or physician diagnosis.) IIRC, everything surrounding Pavano's situation was quite vague.
So. playing devil's advocate here, perhaps this latest rumor is true. It actually may have been true for a while...
I'll believe it when Carl says something. Otherwise, it's the same BS from last season.
What you said.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 11:06 AM
Good God people...............you're all acting like this came straight out of his mouth live on ESPN.
This sounds like bullsh*t to me.
Yanks4eva1
11-18-05, 11:07 AM
"Right-hander Carl Pavano, who signed a four-year contract with the Yankees a year ago, has been telling friends he wants out.
A person who spoke with Pavano late in the 2005 season said Pavano was "miserable" with the Yankees and that he would like the team to try to trade him this winter. He has not yet asked the Yankees to trade him, and he might not make the request formal, but he might not have to."
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1132321522114480.xml&coll=1
You'll have to put in your zip code and birthday to read the whole thing, but what does everyone think of that. I don't know how much stock I put in it, afterall, we did hear something similar during the season last year didnt we?
If true, happy trails!!!
Dee
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:07 AM
I ask everyone again. If this is complete BS, wouldn't Pavano take the 2 minutes and tell everyone it is? Every other athlete would if it was BS.
I ask everyone again. If this is complete BS, wouldn't Pavano take the 2 minutes and tell everyone it is? Every other athlete would if it was BS.
Maybe he hasn't logged in to read the forum lately. Let's be patient and give him a couple of hours.
indianyanksfan
11-18-05, 11:10 AM
I ask everyone again. If this is complete BS, wouldn't Pavano take the 2 minutes and tell everyone it is? Every other athlete would if it was BS.
it does seem bad i agree.
i really dont know what to believe.
anyway as of now they are not shopping him because if they were then it would really seem as if he was unhappy.
hopefully let's just get giles, fix the pen and move on...
Dr. Gonzo
11-18-05, 11:12 AM
I ask everyone again. If this is complete BS, wouldn't Pavano take the 2 minutes and tell everyone it is? Every other athlete would if it was BS.
players can't go and deny every rumor, that will only lead to more as writers see they can get a rise out of the guy.
It is also the off-season, he has no need and I doubt desire to talk to the media.
Is it just me or does anyone else think Pavano can be a big part of this team's success next year? I hope they give him another shot to prove himself.
Me too, I would love to see players get a chance, rather tnen be run out year after year, sooner or later no FA will want to come here.
27IsNext
11-18-05, 11:16 AM
The fact that we're looking at Washburn indicates this story may have something to it.
Until it comes out of his mouth, however, I will remain skeptical. Didn't he sit in the Yankee dugout the whole season, injury and all?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:20 AM
players can't go and deny every rumor, that will only lead to more as writers see they can get a rise out of the guy.
It is also the off-season, he has no need and I doubt desire to talk to the media.
I beg to differ. When the rumor is that he doesn't want to play here and he hates it in NY, you better believe he's going to clear that up if it isn't true. With the NY Media, I can guarentee that a player has no desire to have a false rumor like that going around about him. He has an agent, he has advisors and they make sure that he understands this.
This happened during the season to with no denial from him. It isn't difficult to pick up a phone, call your agent, and release a statement through him. I'm sure his agent knows how Pavano feels and if Pavano felt differently, his agent would make sure that everyone knew.
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 11:22 AM
Why would the Nats trade for a guy who missed the last 3 months of the season with a mysterious shoulder ailment that never cleared up, makes 10 million a year, and struggled in his first 3 months for us.
Its not like we're in a position of strength here with these other teams.
Yeah, especially when they could go out and sign... Jeff Weaver? Anybody with starting pitching to trade has an advantage. There are a lot more buyers than sellers on the market right now. Perhaps we'd have to swallow a little salary, but I have a feeling Pavano for Wilkerson would be something they'd do. Especially considering they aren't planning to start Wilkerson.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:23 AM
Until it comes out of his mouth, however, I will remain skeptical. Didn't he sit in the Yankee dugout the whole season, injury and all?
It would be foolish for him to come out and say it. If he does want out and he told the Yankees this, the Yankees would want him to keep his mouth shut as to not decrease his value.
Yeah, especially when they could go out and sign... Jeff Weaver? Anybody with starting pitching to trade has an advantage. There are a lot more buyers than sellers on the market right now. Perhaps we'd have to swallow a little salary, but I have a feeling Pavano for Wilkerson would be something they'd do. Especially considering they aren't planning to start Wilkerson.
Agreed... though I think Pavano's injury last year will lower his value. But, definitely something to check into.
If this is true, Pavano should talk to Wang about what its like to have a pair. Chien-Ming came back from injury and put in a couple of great performances without a single pout or complaint. Even Wright worked his ass off to come back to the Yanks in late August. Sure he only turned in a couple of decent outings but that kid has heart and drive.
BillBuckner
11-18-05, 11:33 AM
Really? Sources close to me who know sources close to Jeter, says he wants out too. Good riddance.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:35 AM
Pavano should talk to Wang about what its like to have a pair. Chien-Ming came back from injury and put in a couple of great performances without a single pout or complaint. Even Wright worked his ass off to come back to the Yanks in last August. Sure he only turned in a couple of decent outings but that kid has heart and drive.
I couldn't agree more. Those two guys had major shoulder surgeries while Pavano had a sore shoulder that didn't need surgery that kept him out for months.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:35 AM
Really? Sources close to me who know sources close to Jeter, says he wants out too. Good riddance.
The difference is that if there were rumors that Jeter wanted out, you can bet your life that Jeter would immediately tell us that those rumors are 100% false.
I couldn't agree more. Those two guys had major shoulder surgeries while Pavano had a sore shoulder that didn't need surgery that kept him out for months.
Which lowers his trade value even more.
This is all bullsh*t unless the guy is traded and confirms it. Yet more "sources according to his thinking" crap.
The guy could have gone virtually anywhere he wanted last off-season and made the same/more money. He wanted to be here. I bet he still does.
Yep, the reports were that he took less money here than what the sawx had offered.
His mysterious lingering undiganosed shoulder ailment does leave the whole situation open to question.
Best case scenario for both is that his shoulder is fine and he pitches well in ST. IF he stays fine, if he goes, his value will be higher than it is now (negative)
NYDCYankee
11-18-05, 11:38 AM
If this is true, Pavano should talk to Wang about what its like to have a pair. Chien-Ming came back from injury and put in a couple of great performances without a single pout or complaint. Even Wright worked his ass off to come back to the Yanks in late August. Sure he only turned in a couple of decent outings but that kid has heart and drive.
You don't seem to get it. His arm was tired. It needed to take a nap. In his nice big bed that he probably bought for a million dollars.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:39 AM
Yep, the reports were that he took less money here than what the sawx had offered.
And less than the Tigers were offering. My guess is that soon after the season started, he realized he made a mistake.
You don't seem to get it. His arm was tired. It needed to take a nap. In his nice big bed that he probably bought for a million dollars.
Should have shared it with Tanyon!!
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 11:39 AM
Why is it so inconceivable that a player didn't actually like it in NY? Usually, when there is this much smoke, there is fire.
My guess is that when we do finally get rid of this guy, he will say how much he disliked it in NY. I wonder about his heart and still wonder about his injury.
The only smoke is what some writer is gossiping about.
You can wonder about his heart and his injury all you want, until you become both a team physician or member of the organization you have nothing to add that would illuminate either. That goes for virtually anyone else commenting on either subject.
I beg to differ. When the rumor is that he doesn't want to play here and he hates it in NY, you better believe he's going to clear that up if it isn't true. With the NY Media, I can guarentee that a player has no desire to have a false rumor like that going around about him. He has an agent, he has advisors and they make sure that he understands this.
Unless you're Schilling who loves to talk to the media. Pavano's personality make-up wouldn't allow him to even bother. Really, why would he go through all that and get some more unneeded attention it's not him. Torre even said he reminds him of the shy Petite. People have different ways of dealing with things.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:43 AM
The only smoke is what some writer is gossiping about.
You can wonder about his heart and his injury all you want, until you become both a team physician or member of the organization you have nothing to add that would illuminate either. That goes for virtually anyone else commenting on either subject.
And the only way for that smoke to stop is for Pavano to very easily say that it is all not true. It isn't difficult and it is what any athlete would do if it was a lie in this case.
I do wonder about his heart and his injury and will continue to. My guess is that when we do get rid of him, he will say that he hated his time here. Either way, until he actually comes out and says he wants to be here, people have a right to question his desire to be a Yankee.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:44 AM
Unless you're Schilling who loves to talk to the media. Pavano's personality make-up wouldn't allow him to even bother. Really, why would he go through all that and get some more unneeded attention it's not him. Torre even said he reminds him of the shy Petite. People have different ways of dealing with things.
It's very easy to release a statement through your agent. Players do it all the time - no matter how shy they are. If this is how Pavano deals with this, he's not an intelligent individual.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 11:44 AM
Yep, the reports were that he took less money here than what the sawx had offered.
His mysterious lingering undiganosed shoulder ailment does leave the whole situation open to question.
Best case scenario for both is that his shoulder is fine and he pitches well in ST. IF he stays fine, if he goes, his value will be higher than it is now (negative)
I don't think there are any lingering questions about his shoulder, Eddy. If the guy were healthy enough to pitch, he would have. This guy has pitched in big spots, so I doubt any kind of pressure was getting to him, and he wouldn't have to seek a way out - the Yankees would trade him yesterday if he hated it here (the pitching market still sucks, so last season or no his value would be relatively high just based on that).
Ultimately, who knows. I just don't trust "persons familiar with his thinking" stories. They're all bullsh*t, and if they turn out to be true odds are good that the final result is completely coincidental to the reporting that preceeded it.
yank4life2005
11-18-05, 11:45 AM
Send Pavano to Seatle for Reed. Seatle wanted Pavano last offseason and they are looking for more offense out of CF.
Then sign Washburn.
It's very easy to release a statement through your agent. Players do it all the time - no matter how shy they are. If this is how Pavano deals with this, he's not an intelligent individual.
He's not intelligent because he doesn't want to bother with this nonsense? Come on, Jeter avoids controversial questions all the time. Doesn't make him unintelligent.
And the only way for that smoke to stop is for Pavano to very easily say that it is all not true. It isn't difficult and it is what any athlete would do if it was a lie in this case.
I do wonder about his heart and his injury and will continue to. My guess is that when we do get rid of him, he will say that he hated his time here. Either way, until he actually comes out and says he wants to be here, people have a right to question his desire to be a Yankee.
I wouldn't answer it, if I were in his shoes. Assuming he didn't say it, why should he have to respond to a rumor....a rumor quite possibly planted by the writer?
As has been said, he's told the Yankees that it isn't true, I would assume. That's enough.
How miserable could Pavano possibly have been. The majority of the season the man sat on a beach and rehabbed. He is the last person who should be complaining about anything after his performance last year.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:48 AM
He's not intelligent because he doesn't want to bother with this nonsense? Come on, Jeter avoids controversial questions all the time. Doesn't make him unintelligent.
Allegations that someone hates his time in New York and doesn't want to be a Yankee isn't nonsense. If it isn't true then yes, he is not intelligent for making it known that it isn't true. Yankee fans are not the easiest people to deal with and every player wants to be liked, not hated by us. If he wants to stay here, then he can easily issue a statement stating that he wants to be here. It would be idiotic not to.
This isn't controversial. This isn't "What did you do Friday night? Who are you dating? What is going on in your personal life?" like the questions Jeter gets. It's very easy to just say I want to be here. And, Jeter is intelligent and would say that if there were rumors like this about him.
BillBuckner
11-18-05, 11:49 AM
If this is true, Pavano should talk to Wang about what its like to have a pair. Chien-Ming came back from injury and put in a couple of great performances without a single pout or complaint. Even Wright worked his ass off to come back to the Yanks in late August. Sure he only turned in a couple of decent outings but that kid has heart and drive.
Since when did you become a doctor? I never realized that Pavano, Wang, and Wright shared the exact same injury.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 11:49 AM
And the only way for that smoke to stop is for Pavano to very easily say that it is all not true. It isn't difficult and it is what any athlete would do if it was a lie in this case.
Yeah, maybe George can name him team captain like Hicks did with A-Rod back in Texas a couple of years ago.
I do wonder about his heart and his injury and will continue to.
Who cares? You don't know anything and it doesn't matter what you question. You're not a team doctor and you don't know the guy from a hole in the ground. You're just another fan who is projecting his personal dislike for a player into a personal issue for the player himself.
You have the "right" to question whatever you like, just as I retain the "right" to dismiss your questioning.
Allegations that someone hates his time in New York and doesn't want to be a Yankee isn't nonsense. If it isn't true then yes, he is not intelligent for making it known that it isn't true. Yankee fans are not the easiest people to deal with and every player wants to be liked, not hated by us. If he wants to stay here, then he can easily issue a statement stating that he wants to be here. It would be idiotic not to.
I haven't read it in the papers. So unless this thing gets blown out of proportion that is the only way I think he'll respond through his agent.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:49 AM
I wouldn't answer it, if I were in his shoes. Assuming he didn't say it, why should he have to respond to a rumor....a rumor quite possibly planted by the writer?
As has been said, he's told the Yankees that it isn't true, I would assume. That's enough.
Because he would want his fans to support him, and not believe an incorrect rumor.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:50 AM
I haven't read it in the papers. So unless this thing gets blown out of proportion that is the only way I think he'll respond through his agent.
This article came from a newspaper and there were articles during the year in newspapers that stated this.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 11:51 AM
Who cares? You don't know anything and it doesn't matter what you question. You're not a team doctor and you don't know the guy from a hole in the ground. You're just another fan who is projecting his personal dislike for a player into a personal issue for the player himself.
You have the "right" to question whatever you like, just as I retain the "right" to dismiss your questioning.
We agree.
This article came from a newspaper and there were articles during the year in newspapers that stated this.
I meant, the NY Post, Daily News, ESPN etc.. and all that jazz.
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't answer it, if I were in his shoes. Assuming he didn't say it, why should he have to respond to a rumor....a rumor quite possibly planted by the writer?
As has been said, he's told the Yankees that it isn't true, I would assume. That's enough.
You're absolutely right, Lou. Pavano does himself no good addressing any of this. If players held a press conference everytime someone in the media circulated a rumor about them, they'd go broke paying their publicists.
It's a non-story unless something happens to confirm it.
NYDCYankee
11-18-05, 11:56 AM
Send Pavano to Seatle for Reed. Seatle wanted Pavano last offseason and they are looking for more offense out of CF.
Then sign Washburn.
I like that idea alot
ChrisV82
11-18-05, 11:58 AM
How could he be miserable if he spent most of the season in Tampa rehabbing?
You're absolutely right, Lou. Pavano does himself no good addressing any of this. If players held a press conference everytime someone in the media circulated a rumor about them, they'd go broke paying their publicists.
It's a non-story unless something happens to confirm it.
Yup. Not to mention, they would encourage the press to plant even more rumors....esp. on a slow news day.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:04 PM
You're absolutely right, Lou. Pavano does himself no good addressing any of this. If players held a press conference everytime someone in the media circulated a rumor about them, they'd go broke paying their publicists.
I disagree.
There are clearly doubts as to Pavano's desire to continue playing with the Yankees as well as his mental makeup. Maybe these doubts are unfounded, maybe they're not. But they've been around for a while now.
It won't require a press conference, but a brief, well-worded press release from Pavano's agent stating that Carl is looking forward to pitching for the Yankees in 2006 will help shut up (or at least slow down) the detractors.
I disagree.
There are clearly doubts as to Pavano's desire to continue playing with the Yankees as well as his mental makeup. Maybe these doubts are unfounded, maybe they're not. But they've been around for a while now.
It won't require a press conference, but a brief, well-worded press release from Pavano's agent stating that Carl is looking forward to pitching for the Yankees in 2006 will help shut up (or at least slow down) the detractors.
Who harbors those doubts?
Send Pavano to Seatle for Reed. Seatle wanted Pavano last offseason and they are looking for more offense out of CF.
Then sign Washburn.
I will second that idea (Reed, not necessarily Washburn).
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 12:10 PM
I disagree.
There are clearly doubts as to Pavano's desire to continue playing with the Yankees as well as his mental makeup. Maybe these doubts are unfounded, maybe they're not. But they've been around for a while now.
It won't require a press conference, but a brief, well-worded press release from Pavano's agent stating that Carl is looking forward to pitching for the Yankees in 2006 will help shut up (or at least slow down) the detractors.
Sorry, Kat, I don't see it. I don't have any doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees - just his health. Unfortunately, on that score, his history ain't great. I REALLY think the mental makeup stuff is a cheap shot. Especially considering not a few people making this argument completely dismissed it where other pitchers COUGHjavyCOUGH are concerned (not saying you were one of them).
A press release won't make a difference. Players,owners,everyone release statements all the time that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Again - A-Rod should still be captain of the Rangers, should he not?
I think this is one of those NY media/WFAN-caller driven stories that's there due to a vacuum of news where Pavano is concerned.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:12 PM
It's very easy to release a statement through your agent. Players do it all the time - no matter how shy they are. If this is how Pavano deals with this, he's not an intelligent individual.
So Pavano is an idiot? Okay.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:12 PM
Who harbors those doubts?Evidently some Yankee fans do.
I think the questions alone in the press should be enough to lead to a bland, one-paragraph press release from Pavano's agent.
Taking the high road here and ignoring these rumors & stories in the press is foolish. It allows the naysayers to have the floor all to themselves.
NelsonMuntz
11-18-05, 12:16 PM
Sorry, Kat, I don't see it. I don't have any doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees - just his health. Unfortunately, on that score, his history ain't great. I REALLY think the mental makeup stuff is a cheap shot. Especially considering not a few people making this argument completely dismissed it where other pitchers COUGHjavyCOUGH are concerned (not saying you were one of them).
A press release won't make a difference. Players,owners,everyone release statements all the time that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Again - A-Rod should still be captain of the Rangers, should he not?
I think this is one of those NY media/WFAN-caller driven stories that's there due to a vacuum of news where Pavano is concerned.
I agree with this 100% (although I continue to dismiss the lack of mental makeup tag for Javy as well. At least I'm consistent).
MattUNC2003
11-18-05, 12:17 PM
How could he be miserable if he spent most of the season in Tampa rehabbing?
Maybe he really doesn't like the night scene in Tampa?
Evidently some Yankee fans do.
I think the questions alone in the press should be enough to lead to a bland, one-paragraph press release from Pavano's agent.
Taking the high road here and ignoring these rumors & stories in the press is foolish. It allows the naysayers to have the floor all to themselves.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
If it's just the fans/press saying this, then I certainly would not respond. Again: if I were Pavano, I certainly would sit down with Yankees management and tell them the rumors weren't true, and to not believe anything they hear about him. I would also ask that if management heard a rumor they thought was true, to please do me the favor of talking with me about it.
FWIW :)
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:19 PM
Taking the high road here and ignoring these rumors & stories in the press is foolish. It allows the naysayers to have the floor all to themselves.
What did Mark Twain say about that......"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
</pre>
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:23 PM
What did Mark Twain say about that......"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
</PRE></P>
I have no idea how this is relevant here in the least.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:27 PM
I have no idea how this is relevant here in the least.
You don't?
All of you want him to say something in response to these comments, and someone else said that him not saying anything made him look stupid.
Well, I found that quote to be quite appropriate to the discussion. In other words, it's better for him to be quiet and let it blow over, than open his mouth and cause more problems.
I thought it was obvious.
What did Mark Twain say about that......"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
</pre>
I think it was Mark Twain who so eloquently wrote: "Who the ................ is Carl Pavano? And since when could "lemons" speak?"
Just being a wiseass. I hope Mr. P's healthy and happy.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:30 PM
Sorry, Kat, I don't see it. I don't have any doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees - just his health. Unfortunately, on that score, his history ain't great. I REALLY think the mental makeup stuff is a cheap shot. Especially considering not a few people making this argument completely dismissed it where other pitchers COUGHjavyCOUGH are concerned (not saying you were one of them).
A press release won't make a difference. Players,owners,everyone release statements all the time that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Again - A-Rod should still be captain of the Rangers, should he not?
I think this is one of those NY media/WFAN-caller driven stories that's there due to a vacuum of news where Pavano is concerned.
I don't remember the mental makeup argument ever being dismissed -- or more appropriately, a more detailed explanation ever given as to Pavano's injury beyond "he has a bad shoulder".
And keep context in mind -- this occurred when Wang and "Debris Magnet" Wright came back from what were labeled as season-ending injuries. Even Mussina's elbow problems were initially labeled as possibly season-ending, and he came back. (Nobody doubted that Kevin Brown was really injured...nor did anyone much care. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif )
I don't see the relevance of the "A-Rod as Rangers captain" press release here either. That followed a very public, failed deal to send Alex to the Red Sox. Meanwhile, there's been nothing but silence from Pavano & his people.
I don't want Pavano's agent to become argumentative. Just release a simple, brief press release stating how his client is working hard on rehabbing his injury & is looking forward to being an integral part of the Yankee rotation in 2006.
Some people might not buy it, but at least there'll be something for reporters and others to discuss. Total silence at this point will be continue to be interpreted in a negative light.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:35 PM
You don't?
All of you want him to say something in response to these comments, and someone else said that him not saying anything made him look stupid.
Well, I found that quote to be quite appropriate to the discussion. In other words, it's better for him to be quiet and let it blow over, than open his mouth and cause more problems.
I thought it was obvious.It's completely inappropropriate seeing as this will not blow over.
Since Pavano is being discussed as a possible trading chip, talk about his injury (which has never been truly defined) and mental makeup will only keep building as the "Hot Stove" heats up more.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 12:36 PM
It's completely inappropropriate seeing as this will not blow over.
Yeah, well I think it will. They'll find someone else to dump on soon enough. They always do.
We should know by now that sportswriters like to make sh*t up.
I don't know if this is true or not (and neither does anyone else here), so let's just wait and see what happens. If it is true and he requests it, it will make news. Then we can say goodbye. Till then, I'm not buying it.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 12:41 PM
Don't let the door hit you on the ass Carl.
I don't know if this is true or not (and neither does anyone else here), so let's just wait and see what happens. If it is true and he requests it, it will make news. Then we can say goodbye. Till then, I'm not buying it.
Exactly. :)
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 12:42 PM
I don't remember the mental makeup argument ever being dismissed -- or more appropriately, a more detailed explanation ever given as to Pavano's injury beyond "he has a bad shoulder".
And keep context in mind -- this occurred when Wang and "Debris Magnet" Wright came back from what were labeled as season-ending injuries. Even Mussina's elbow problems were initially labeled as possibly season-ending, and he came back. (Nobody doubted that Kevin Brown was really injured...nor did anyone much care. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/devil.gif )
I don't see the relevance of the "A-Rod as Rangers captain" press release here either. That followed a very public, failed deal to send Alex to the Red Sox. Meanwhile, there's been nothing but silence from Pavano & his people.
I don't want Pavano's agent to become argumentative. Just release a simple, brief press release stating how his client is working hard on rehabbing his injury & is looking forward to being an integral part of the Yankee rotation in 2006.
Some people might not buy it, but at least there'll be something for reporters and others to discuss. Total silence at this point will be continue to be interpreted in a negative light.
We can't compare injuries. We're not doctors and none of us know why one guy's injury was more severe than another's.
The "A-Rod as Captain" has plenty of relevance. That entire action was taken to dismiss the idea that A-Rod wanted out and that the Rangers were actively trading him again. It was a worthless gesture at best, and camoflauge for trying to deal him while retaining as much leverage as possible at worst. So look at it this way: a Pavano press release would actually be an action taken at the club's behest if they're trying to accomdate Pavano's supposed desire to be dealt. The Yankees leverage and ability to trade him doesn't increase if the perception is out there that he doesn't want to be here.
So no, a press release would actually go a long ways towards inflaming questions about what the Yanks are trying to do with Pavano and why. It would be odd that a player who is only on the 2nd year of his four year contract would need to publicly state he wanted to play here.
We can't compare injuries. We're not doctors and none of us know why one guy's injury was more severe than another's.
The "A-Rod as Captain" has plenty of relevance. That entire action was taken to dismiss the idea that A-Rod wanted out and that the Rangers were actively trading him again. It was a worthless gesture at best, and camoflauge for trying to deal him while retaining as much leverage as possible at worst. So look at it this way: a Pavano press release would actually be an action taken at the club's behest if they're trying to accomdate Pavano. The Yankees leverage and ability to trade him doesn't increase if the perception is out there that he doesn't want to be here.
So no, a press release would actually go a long ways towards inflaming questions about what the Yanks are trying to do with Pavano and why.
Hadn't thought of it that way, amico mio. Brilliant. :gulp:
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 12:45 PM
Yeah, well I think it will. They'll find someone else to dump on soon enough. They always do.
We should know by now that sportswriters like to make sh*t up.
So they can't dump on or make sh*t up about more than one Yankee at a time?
I realize a press release or statement may not work. But ignoring the talk only breeds more talk, especially this time of year.
For now, let's assume Pavano stays, and let's hope the only thing "down and away" about him are his pitches.
It'll be interesting to see how Guidry and Kerrigan handle these guys.
Dooley Womack
11-18-05, 12:59 PM
So they can't dump on or make sh*t up about more than one Yankee at a time?
I realize a press release or statement may not work. But ignoring the talk only breeds more talk, especially this time of year.
To respond to a "rumor" that was started months ago, and for which this moronic writer is trying to renew again for no apparent reason? Was anyone, including Pavano, prepared for this re-run?
If anything, maybe Pavano is sick of the inept metropolitan sportswriters. I would be.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 01:01 PM
We can't compare injuries. We're not doctors and none of us know why one guy's injury was more severe than another's.
Ironically enough, most of the doctors couldn't understand it either.
Sorry, Kat, I don't see it. I don't have any doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees - just his health. Unfortunately, on that score, his history ain't great. I REALLY think the mental makeup stuff is a cheap shot. Especially considering not a few people making this argument completely dismissed it where other pitchers COUGHjavyCOUGH are concerned (not saying you were one of them).
A press release won't make a difference. Players,owners,everyone release statements all the time that aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Again - A-Rod should still be captain of the Rangers, should he not?
I think this is one of those NY media/WFAN-caller driven stories that's there due to a vacuum of news where Pavano is concerned.
I think a big factor is that he's never had a definitive diagnosis of what his problem is. Wang got his diagnosis- rotator tear- was close to surgery- and did a tough rehab nad was back on the team pitching by the end of the year.
Pavano has had MRI's and also an exam by top orthopods and the oly diagnosis I remember is "shoulder inflammation" He was scheduled for several returns and the date kept getting pushed back. THere were a lot of conflicting statements from he and the Yanks.
Absent a definitive diagnosis and/or statement from Pavano, there is plenty of room for doubts to surface about his desire. Not saying it's justified or right, but given the situation, it's not surprising
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 01:10 PM
We can't compare injuries. We're not doctors and none of us know why one guy's injury was more severe than another's.
The "A-Rod as Captain" has plenty of relevance. That entire action was taken to dismiss the idea that A-Rod wanted out and that the Rangers were actively trading him again. It was a worthless gesture at best, and camoflauge for trying to deal him while retaining as much leverage as possible at worst. So look at it this way: a Pavano press release would actually be an action taken at the club's behest if they're trying to accomdate Pavano's supposed desire to be dealt. The Yankees leverage and ability to trade him doesn't increase if the perception is out there that he doesn't want to be here.
So no, a press release would actually go a long ways towards inflaming questions about what the Yanks are trying to do with Pavano and why. It would be odd that a player who is only on the 2nd year of his four year contract would need to publicly state he wanted to play here.
I have to run out now, so I don't have time to fully address this well-thought-out post. But in summary I think you're thinking this through too much and gaming this out way too far.
It's not like this is the first time we've ever heard rumors that Pavano doesn't like playing for the Yankees. It's not the first time we've heard rumblings that he might not be mentally tough. And these rumors & rumblings weren't just on talk shows or blogs or message boards, they've been discussed in the mainstream sports media. (Which we know is a joke, but not everyone thinks that way.)
It's incumbent upon Pavano's representation to present their client in the best possible light and make sure he is seen publicly in the same manner. As these rumors & rumblings continue to be repeated unanswered in the press casting increasing doubt on Pavano's makeup & character, I don't believe they are doing either.
It's really as simple as that.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 01:18 PM
Absent a definitive diagnosis and/or statement from Pavano, there is plenty of room for doubts to surface about his desire. Not saying it's justified or right, but given the situation, it's not surprising
Exactly.
To be clear, I like Pavano. And I want him to come back next year & do well not just because he's a Yankee, but because I like watching him pitch. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/love-struck.gif
But without having a definitive diagnosis of his injury -- when we got plenty of detail on his teammates' injuries -- and hearing repeated rumors from different sources that he wants off the Yankees, that he's not mentally tough etc etc etc, I'm beginning to wonder if there's fire behind some of this smoke.
yeahimweird
11-18-05, 01:19 PM
What did Mark Twain say about that......"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
</pre>
Regardless of relavance, I love this quote. :lol:
Anyway, it must be a slow news day if they're rehashing a rumor from the summer. :dunno:
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 01:25 PM
I have to run out now, so I don't have time to fully address this well-thought-out post. But in summary I think you're thinking this through too much and gaming this out way too far.
As opposed to taking two stories mentioning unnamed sources familiar with Pavano's thinking and turning it into a controversy? ;)
It's not like this is the first time we've ever heard rumors that Pavano doesn't like playing for the Yankees. It's not the first time we've heard rumblings that he might not be mentally tough.
HOOOOLD it right there, lil Miss Kat-on-a-hot-tin-Miami-roof. Since WHEN did Carl Pavano acquire the wuss rep? One of the BIGGEST selling points on his signing last off-season was that he was mentally equipped to deal with NY, everyone in baseball LOVED his makeup, he was the rock while Clement was the headcase, etc, etc. I don't recall any rumblings about his makeup.
It's incumbent upon Pavano's representation to present their client in the best possible light and make sure he is seen publicly in the same manner. As these rumors & rumblings continue to be repeated unanswered in the press casting increasing doubt on Pavano's makeup & character, I don't believe they are doing either.
It's really as simple as that.
I don't hear a chorus being created over this. It's a story in one paper that probably won't gain any serious traction.
We need to know for sure if he wants to stay or not. If he's going to stay, I'll buy more tickets in the upper deck in section 35.....better chance to get a ball.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 01:37 PM
As opposed to taking two stories mentioning unnamed sources familiar with Pavano's thinking and turning it into a controversy? http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
HOOOOLD it right there, lil Miss Kat-on-a-hot-tin-Miami-roof. Since WHEN did Carl Pavano acquire the wuss rep? One of the BIGGEST selling points on his signing last off-season was that he was mentally equipped to deal with NY, everyone in baseball LOVED his makeup, he was the rock while Clement was the headcase, etc, etc. I don't recall any rumblings about his makeup.
I don't hear a chorus being created over this. It's a story in one paper that probably won't gain any serious traction.
Arrrrrrgh...just when I want to leave, they pull me back in. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
I remember reading the rumors this year on Pavano's mental makeup & desire to pitch for the Yankees more than once during his extended DL stay -- remember the few times he was supposed to come off the DL then mysteriously didn't? (BTW, Pavano's old rep is ancient history now -- that sort of thing seems to reset when one joins the Yankees.)
Anyway, like I said, I like Pavano (I mean, really really like Pavano) so I hope this story doesn't gain any more traction. Although I don't have much hope for that as the Hot Stove heats up more & more over the next month or so and Pavano continues to be discussed as a possible trading chip.
You know, a great way to help stop that from happening -- or at least mitigate its impact -- would be with a simple, little press release... http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 01:40 PM
Arrrrrrgh...just when I want to leave, they pull me back in. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
I remember reading the rumors on Pavano this year more than once during his extended DL stay -- remember the few times he was supposed to come off the DL then mysteriously didn't? (BTW, Pavano's old rep is ancient history now -- that sort of thing seems to reset when one joins the Yankees.)
Anyway, like I said, I like Pavano (I mean, really really like Pavano) so I hope this story doesn't gain any more traction. Although I don't have much hope for that as the Hot Stove heats up more & more over the next month or so and Pavano is being discussed as a possible trading chip.
You know, a great way to help stop that from happening -- or at least mitigate its impact -- would be with a simple, little press release... http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
You keep coming back because you want me and you know you want me...but I am forbidden fruit. Or something.
That or you're an incorigable yenta.
Look, I don't have a problem trading Pavano necessarily, I just don't by into the current storyline.
And take your f*cking press release and wipe your ass with it already. :eek:
The Yankee Captain
11-18-05, 01:49 PM
Exactly. It's the, "person familiar with (insert name here)'s thinking." BS
Dude, the Gints are not in 1st place! If the season ended today the Cowboys would be NFC East Champs, we beat you. Change that sig.
RIP Mara and Tisch.
RIP Mara and Tisch.
Disney finally killed that show? Good riddance.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 01:58 PM
You keep coming back because you want me and you know you want me...but I am forbidden fruit. Or something.
That or you're an incorigable yenta.
Look, I don't have a problem trading Pavano necessarily, I just don't by into the current storyline.
And take your f*cking press release and wipe your ass with it already. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif
I stay away from engaged men. You know...lessons learned.
So I guess that makes me an incorrigible yenta then. At least I'm one who one who knows how to spell "incorrigible", though. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/icon28.gif
As for your last paragraph, I have only one thing in response that I can say on this board. Paper cuts. Ouch.
You keep coming back because you want me and you know you want me...but I am forbidden fruit. Or something.
That or you're an incorigable yenta.
Look, I don't have a problem trading Pavano necessarily, I just don't by into the current storyline.
And take your f*cking press release and wipe your ass with it already. :eek:
Was there ever such a thing as a corrigible yenta?
Hint- Suzyn Waldman didn't make the cut
Astorian
11-18-05, 02:04 PM
To everyone saying that Pavano should issue a statement through his agent, the link in the first post says that Pavano currently doesn't have any representation. That could explain why no statement has come. Then again, maybe he just doesn't want to dignify this ridiculous story with a quote. I know I wouldn't.
bagger015
11-18-05, 02:11 PM
:lol: WTF- Pavano, Ryan and Giles............who else doesn't want to play for the Yankees.............:uhh:
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 02:34 PM
I stay away from engaged men. You know...lessons learned.
So I guess that makes me an incorrigible yenta then. At least I'm one who one who knows how to spell "incorrigible", though. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/icon28.gif
As for your last paragraph, I have only one thing in response that I can say on this board. Paper cuts. Ouch.
A pox on you and your spelling.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:10 PM
You're absolutely right, Lou. Pavano does himself no good addressing any of this. If players held a press conference everytime someone in the media circulated a rumor about them, they'd go broke paying their publicists.
It's a non-story unless something happens to confirm it.
It's not a press conference. It's a statement read by his agent just saying that this is not true. These rumors have persisted for months now, so it's not a big deal to just have a small statement through your agent.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:11 PM
a rumor quite possibly planted by the writer?
It hasn't been mentioned by just one newspaper reporter.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:14 PM
Sorry, Kat, I don't see it. I don't have any doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees - just his health. Unfortunately, on that score, his history ain't great. I REALLY think the mental makeup stuff is a cheap shot. Especially considering not a few people making this argument completely dismissed it where other pitchers COUGHjavyCOUGH are concerned (not saying you were one of them).
I just don't understand why you have no doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees. A lot of people dislike the bright lights of Yankee Stadium. He was depressed this year with his publicized breakup and maybe he didn't like how much it was publicized. Maybe he didn't like the serious, business like clubhouse atmosphere. The mental toughness comes into play because he had to take the whole season off for a sore shoulder. As for Javy, he also had a sore shoulder but continued to play through it. Maybe Javy couldn't handle the NY pressure and maybe he could, but there is a clear difference between the two and their desire to pitch through pain.
It hasn't been mentioned by just one newspaper reporter.
Ahhh, but you know how those things work. Newspaper A (plants or) publishes a story, newspapers B-Z, not wishing to be scooped too badly, run the story, too.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:16 PM
So Pavano is an idiot? Okay.
No, I don't think Pavano's an idiot. I think Pavano doesn't want to play here and that's why he hasn't denied these reports. If none of these reports are true and he thinks that just ignoring them is the best road, then yes, I question his intelligence.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:18 PM
than open his mouth and cause more problems.
I thought it was obvious.
You thought it was obvious that saying through his agent, "I just want everyone to know that the rumors that have been printed that I don't want to play here are completely false. I want to be a Yankee and I want to win a ring with this organization" would cause more problems? Interesting. How would this cause more problems again? It sure as hell would shut me, and all the others that question his desire, right up.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:19 PM
Yeah, well I think it will. They'll find someone else to dump on soon enough. They always do.
We should know by now that sportswriters like to make sh*t up.
It will blow over when he says that it's incorrect or when they trade him. That's it.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:22 PM
Ahhh, but you know how those things work. Newspaper A (plants or) publishes a story, newspapers B-Z, not wishing to be scooped too badly, run the story, too.
You really think that there's a better chance that this is some sort of conspiracy rather than maybe he doesn't want to play here? Plenty of players have come to NY and disliked it. What makes Pavano differenet?
You really think that there's a better chance that this is some sort of conspiracy rather than maybe he doesn't want to play here? Plenty of players have come to NY and disliked it. What makes Pavano differenet?
He grew up a Yankee fan. :)
Jglaubman
11-18-05, 03:32 PM
wow, this is really sad. First Pavano comes here and plays for half a season, and SUCKS. Then he gets injured for the rest of the year. Now, he is miserable and wants to be traded, he should be begging yankee fans for forgiveness. I liked him when he came here, I was supportive of him during the year, and, up until now, I was hoping he would make a nice comeback. But now, along with Kevin Brown and Tony Womack, he is on my list of "Yankees I Hate".
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 03:35 PM
Jim Rome just ripped him apart
Jglaubman
11-18-05, 03:36 PM
Jim Rome just ripped him apart
What did he say, i missed it.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 03:38 PM
What did he say, i missed it. He can't be as miserable as the Yankee fans who watched him, the opposing players who had to waste energy running around the bases everytime they faced him, the balls that got launched and the bats that got dented from whacking balls.
YankeeFan1
11-18-05, 03:39 PM
Jim Rome is a turd.
32elston
11-18-05, 03:39 PM
That's David Ortiz. And hey, it seems to work so I can't knock him.
Trying to satisfy Ortiz with a baby would be like trying to satisfy a whale with a tic-tac, he probably offensive linemen.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:40 PM
He grew up a Yankee fan. :)
That he did, but that doesn't always translate to enjoying playing under the bright lights in a business like clubhouse.
Astorian
11-18-05, 03:41 PM
The mental toughness comes into play because he had to take the whole season off for a sore shoulder. As for Javy, he also had a sore shoulder but continued to play through it. Maybe Javy couldn't handle the NY pressure and maybe he could, but there is a clear difference between the two and their desire to pitch through pain.
Are all sore shoulders the same? How can you say there's a "clear difference" when you don't know how much pain each player was feeling?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:41 PM
He can't be as miserable as the Yankee fans who watched him, the opposing players who had to waste energy running around the bases everytime they faced him, the balls that got launched and the bats that got dented from whacking balls.
Sounds like a typical Jim Rome lashing.
Jim Rome is a turd.
That is true, but it still means that this is now gotten national media exposure, which further should make Pavano issue a statement if he wants to stay.
wileedog
11-18-05, 03:41 PM
Then again, maybe he just doesn't want to dignify this ridiculous story with a quote. I know I wouldn't.
You would want your teamates to spend all winter thinking you don't want to be on their team anymore?
They read the paper too, you know. Randy Johnson said so.
All this stuff could go away with a phone call. Heck, if he doesn't have an agent call Cashman at least, let him know this is bunk and let him make a quick statement. Heck, call King George, he's never met a microphone he doesn't like and would love to affirm that Pavano is still gung ho about being on the Yankees.
I'm not saying I necessarily believe this stuff, but the silence from Pavano for the last 5 months during the injuries, the cryptic Mel comments and now this has been deafening. If he doesn't say something soon you just have to start to wonder.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 03:42 PM
To everyone saying that Pavano should issue a statement through his agent, the link in the first post says that Pavano currently doesn't have any representation. That could explain why no statement has come. Good point. Must have missed that paragraph in the article. http://www.nyyfans.com/forums/images/smilies/redface.gif
Anyway, now clowns like Jim Rome have picked up on the "news". Like it or not, this isn't going away.
Someone on Pavano's side is going to have to address it sooner or later.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 03:43 PM
I'm not saying I necessarily believe this stuff, but the silence from Pavano for the last 5 months during the injuries, the cryptic Mel comments and now this has been deafening. If he doesn't say something soon you just have to start to wonder.Exactly.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:43 PM
Are all sore shoulders the same? How can you say there's a "clear difference" when you don't know how much pain each player was feeling?
No they are not and you are right I have no idea between the different amounts of pain each experienced. Both did have sore shoulders though and one pitched through it and the other didn't. The point was that people question Pavano's mental makeup because he couldn't pitch through pain while nobody every questioned Vazquez's mental makeup in terms of pitching through pain.
Still though, it seems very rare for a pitcher to be injured for that amount of time with just a sore shoulder that did not need surgery.
Kulish29
11-18-05, 03:46 PM
wow, this is really sad. First Pavano comes here and plays for half a season, and SUCKS. Then he gets injured for the rest of the year. Now, he is miserable and wants to be traded, he should be begging yankee fans for forgiveness. I liked him when he came here, I was supportive of him during the year, and, up until now, I was hoping he would make a nice comeback. But now, along with Kevin Brown and Tony Womack, he is on my list of "Yankees I Hate".
How about we wait for Carl to come out and actually say that he hates being in NY?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 03:47 PM
How about we wait for Carl to come out and actually say that he hates being in NY?
How about since there have been rumors for months now, he just comes out and says that the rumors are incorrect? It's not difficult. And, I don't think Carl is just going to come out, while still a Yankee, and declare that he hates playing for the Yankees.
Kulish29
11-18-05, 03:48 PM
Jim Rome is a turd.
Worst radio host ever. Same crap every friggin day. He's such a pompus ass.
StatenIslandYankee
11-18-05, 03:49 PM
I didn't even want him on the team in the first place.
yankees76
11-18-05, 03:49 PM
It's not Pavano's job to comment on every rumor that floats around. If he wants to explain what happened last year and where he wants to pitch, he will, but I am certain that our desire for a definitive answer on his intentions will play no part in his decision.
Astorian
11-18-05, 03:51 PM
You would want your teamates to spend all winter thinking you don't want to be on their team anymore?
They read the paper too, you know. Randy Johnson said so.
Wouldn't it be better handled in person or via phone than in the press? If it were me, I'd rather they hear it straight from me, not through second-hand accounts.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 03:56 PM
It's not Pavano's job to comment on every rumor that floats around. No one's asking him to speculate on Nick and Jessica. This is a rumor that if true, is pretty ................ing big. If its not true, he should say as much.
BillBuckner
11-18-05, 04:02 PM
Jim Rome is a turd.
Am I the only one in this forum who absolutely loves Jim Rome? He's so anti-ESPN. Doesnt follow any trends, or political-correctness. Just tells it how he wants to.
yankees76
11-18-05, 04:04 PM
No one's asking him to speculate on Nick and Jessica. This is a rumor that if true, is pretty ................ing big. If its not true, he should say as much.
Pettitte never commented on the rumor that his wife was making him leave for Houston so that he had to stop seeing his mistress. That ......ing bigger. These guys are not all PR experts. Some of them are just ballplayers. If Pavano thinks it's an issue, he will probably call Joe or Jeter or whoever he feels a connection with on the team to ask for advice. If Joe or Jeter or Cashman thinks it's an issue, they will probably pick up the phone to Pavano and ask him to address it (probably privately, within the organization).
In any event, you are unlikely to hear that the discussions took place until months after, if at all, unless we trade him.
This isn't Manny and the Red Sox, no matter how boring the offseason is and how desperate we are to be titillated.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 04:06 PM
Pettitte never commented on the rumor that his wife was making him leave for Houston so that he had to stop seeing his mistress. That ......ing bigger. And now everyone thinks thats why he left. I certainly do. Staying silent is not as effective as they seem to think.
webassign
11-18-05, 04:07 PM
Is there any chance we could trade Pavano for Ichiro straight up?
yankees76
11-18-05, 04:09 PM
And now everyone thinks thats why he left. I certainly do. Staying silent is not as effective as they seem to think.
Most people on this Board (much less, most Yankee fans) have not even heard the Pettitte rumor.
Evil Empire
11-18-05, 04:09 PM
Good, because I don't like him.
Get some one who can do something.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 04:09 PM
Is there any chance we could trade Pavano for Ichiro straight up?If we get Bill Bavasi really drunk.
yankees76
11-18-05, 04:10 PM
Is there any chance we could trade Pavano for Ichiro straight up? We would have to throw someone else into the trade, and I don't know how the Mariners make it without knowing how healthy he is.
Evil Empire
11-18-05, 04:11 PM
If we get Bill Bavasi really drunk.
We should throw in a hot woman. Maybe Pavano can get Milano to help out.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 04:12 PM
Pettitte never commented on the rumor that his wife was making him leave for Houston so that he had to stop seeing his mistress. That ......ing bigger. These guys are not all PR experts.
I don't see how the two are comparable. Asking Pettitte to comment on if he has a mistress is asking about his personal life. He has the right to not want to say anything. Pavano is being rumored to not wanting to be here. It is best for him to say that he does if he does want to be here. It has nothing to do with his personal life like the Pettitte situation.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 04:12 PM
Most people on this Board (much less, most Yankee fans) have not even heard the Pettitte rumor. I'd say everyone on the board has heard the Pettitte rumor. Its been mentioned multiple times in every Andy thread.
And it was a minor rumor around NY at the time. More people know about it than you're giving credit for.
yankees76
11-18-05, 04:13 PM
We should throw in a hot woman. Maybe Pavano can get Milano to help out.
I would make THAT trade. Do you think they are still on speaking terms??
yanksconstantino24
11-18-05, 04:13 PM
Is there any chance we could trade Pavano for Ichiro straight up?
Seattle would never do that.
I'm not really in favor of trading Pavano, but that one I would do. Ichiro would feel the need both in center field (I'm assuming that's where he'd play- he's got the ability) and he's a leadoff hitter.
Evil Empire
11-18-05, 04:16 PM
I would make THAT trade. Do you think they are still on speaking terms??
First we'll get Bavasi drunk. Then we'll get her drunk, convince her to get back with Carl, then ship em both off and get Ichiro.
dabomb2045
11-18-05, 04:21 PM
I wouldnt mind seeing Pavano off this team....he is INCREDIBLY overrated and just not that good IMHO
yanks710
11-18-05, 04:35 PM
Yea I read this today. But I don't understand why he hates New York so much? wasn't it just a year ago his childhood dream and all that crap?
wileedog
11-18-05, 05:02 PM
Wouldn't it be better handled in person or via phone than in the press? If it were me, I'd rather they hear it straight from me, not through second-hand accounts.
He hasn't really done either, has he?
wileedog
11-18-05, 05:07 PM
Yea I read this today. But I don't understand why he hates New York so much? wasn't it just a year ago his childhood dream and all that crap?
The original rumors were that he hated the clubhouse and didn't getting along well with teamates and/or the coaching staff. Doesn't really matter if you are playing on your favorite team if you don't like anyone on it.
Again, I have no clue if there is a shred of truth to that. But as time passes if Carl refuses to address it the situation will probably only get worse.
SubwayFanatic
11-18-05, 05:12 PM
I can't believe the amount of people who are totally dismissing this story as BS. If I am not mistaken, we've heard rumors about Pavano not being happy in NY a few times now, by several different journalists. Don't you think there is a chance that there could be some truth to this? Do you think these writers have nothing better to do so they will just think to themselves.. "Hmm, I got it! Let's make up a story about Pavano being miserable!"
And as far as the people saying they want to hear it from Pavano's mouth, what the heck is he supposed to do? Hold a press conference tomorrow at 1 p.m. and announce he hates playing for the Yankees?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 05:14 PM
I can't believe the amount of people who are totally dismissing this story as BS. If I am not mistaken, we've heard rumors about Pavano not being happy in NY a few times now, by several different journalists. Don't you think there is a chance that there could be some truth to this? Do you think these writers have nothing better to do so they will just think to themselves.. "Hmm, I got it! Let's make up a story about Pavano being miserable!"
And as far as the people saying they want to hear it from Pavano's mouth, what the heck is he supposed to do? Hold a press conference tomorrow at 1 p.m. and announce he hates playing for the Yankees?
These people have defended Pavano all year long and can't come to grips that shockingly, he might actually not like playing here!
Stupid Flanders
11-18-05, 05:20 PM
The story isn't even new. The source quoted was from "late in the 2005 season" and it's exactly the same quote.
SubwayFanatic
11-18-05, 05:24 PM
These people have defended Pavano all year long and can't come to grips that shockingly, he might actually not like playing here!
I think a lot of people are under the impression that it's every players' dream to play in a city like New York or Boston where you have a chance to play in front of a packed house, to play on a contending team, to play in a city where the people are very passionate, etc.
But I get the impression that a lot more players than we think would rather play for a team like the Braves or Diamondbacks where they can just play baseball, cash their checks, and not have their lives talked about 24/7 by fans, newspaper reporters and talk show hosts.
Some people may love playing for a team like the Yankees. But I can certainly see why some would not.
Panamaniac42
11-18-05, 05:35 PM
But I get the impression that a lot more players than we think would rather play for a team like the Braves or Diamondbacks where they can just play baseball, cash their checks, and not have their lives talked about 24/7 by fans, newspaper reporters and talk show hosts.
You just described "Juan Gonzalez Syndrome" to a 'T'.
Hopefully Carl Milano can be used in our efforts to obtain a CF. He'll still be only 30 in January. Plus at least he has an injury excuse for last year; it's not like he got bombed all over the place and fully exposed. Someone will want him.
If this were MVP 2005 on my GameCube I'd trade Carl and Sheff for Beltran ASAP lol.
The Q Bomb
11-18-05, 06:04 PM
I have serious doubts to the validity of this story. What happened to Pavano for him to feel this way? I don't remember any bad incidents in which a player like Pavano would want to give up after pitching for the Yankees just three months before he was injured.
Okay, I just read who wrote this story, enough said about the validity issue.
Agreed. Why on earth would a player, who could have signed with other teams as a free agent for not much less than The Yanks offered, want to be traded after less than a half season unless something terrible happened to him? Yes, he was injured, but unless one of his teammates or coaches hit him with a bat - that could have happened anywhere. Yes, he has had to put up with a lot of second guessing by irate Yankee fans, however, unless he is really an airhead - he must have known how tough the NYY crowd can be when a player does not perform up to expectations.
Unfortunately, more often than not, the "unfounded rumors" turn out to be not so "unfounded". I'd love for him to address this "rumor" but doubt that will ever happen.
Agreed. Why on earth would a player, who could have signed with other teams as a free agent for not much less than The Yanks offered, want to be traded after less than a half season unless something terrible happened to him? Yes, he was injured, but unless one of his teammates or coaches hit him with a bat - that could have happened anywhere. Yes, he has had to put up with a lot of second guessing by irate Yankee fans, however, unless he is really an airhead - he must have known how tough the NYY crowd can be when a player does not perform up to expectations.
Unfortunately, more often than not, the "unfounded rumors" turn out to be not so "unfounded".
And he is a Yankees fan. Doesn't make any sense to me, either.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 06:06 PM
Yea I read this today. But I don't understand why he hates New York so much? wasn't it just a year ago his childhood dream and all that crap?
You actually believe this?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:27 PM
You actually believe this?
Can you please explain why it is so shocking that it could actually be true that a player does not like playing for the Yankees?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:29 PM
I think a lot of people are under the impression that it's every players' dream to play in a city like New York or Boston where you have a chance to play in front of a packed house, to play on a contending team, to play in a city where the people are very passionate, etc.
But I get the impression that a lot more players than we think would rather play for a team like the Braves or Diamondbacks where they can just play baseball, cash their checks, and not have their lives talked about 24/7 by fans, newspaper reporters and talk show hosts.
Some people may love playing for a team like the Yankees. But I can certainly see why some would not.
I think it's just the fact that a lot of people wanted Pavano last offseason (I wanted him after Radke) and don't like to be wrong. Then, there was questions about his injury and the same people defended him and so they are now stuck with defending the guy.
I get that impression too. And, it isn't surprising. New York can either be the best place to play or the worst. I think a player either really enjoys it or really dislikes it - not much middle ground.
Can you please explain why it is so shocking that it could actually be true that a player does not like playing for the Yankees?
He's been a Yankees fan since he was a kid.
Panamaniac42
11-18-05, 06:31 PM
Maybe he IS "Miserable".
If I signed a 4 year deal at $10 million per and spent half the season collecting checks with Kevin Brown, I'd be embarrassed AND miserable for not fulfilling my end of the bargain. We'll have to wait and see if he's "I want to be traded miserable".
How much do you guys think it would take in addition to Carl to join his friend AJ in Toronto and get Mr. Wells back? They'd probably start with Cano, eh?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:33 PM
He's been a Yankees fan since he was a kid.
So? Still doesn't mean that he likes having his life talked about 24/7 on talk radio shows and in newspapers (taking that from Subway).
So? Still doesn't mean that he likes having his life talked about 24/7 on talk radio shows and in newspapers (taking that from Subway).
I'm sure he knew that going in.
Put it to you this way: you wake up tomorrow, and the Yanks have signed you to a multi-year deal to, I don't know, play your position, say.
Would you ever want to leave?
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 06:38 PM
I just don't understand why you have no doubts about Pavano's desire to play for the Yankees. A lot of people dislike the bright lights of Yankee Stadium. He was depressed this year with his publicized breakup and maybe he didn't like how much it was publicized. Maybe he didn't like the serious, business like clubhouse atmosphere. The mental toughness comes into play because he had to take the whole season off for a sore shoulder. As for Javy, he also had a sore shoulder but continued to play through it. Maybe Javy couldn't handle the NY pressure and maybe he could, but there is a clear difference between the two and their desire to pitch through pain.
Who said I have no doubts? I just don't believe the story.
The rest is more of you playing armchair doctor and I'll reiterate: your opinion on Pavano's injury and ability to pitch throught it is worthless.
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 06:39 PM
I'm sure he knew that going in.
Put it to you this way: you wake up tomorrow, and the Yanks have signed you to a multi-year deal to, I don't know, play your position, say.
Would you ever want to leave?
This is nonsense. Not one person on this site can speak intelligently on the experience of playing for the Yankees. Why bother asking a question that can only be answered by someone who isn't remotely qualified to do so?
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:41 PM
I'm sure he knew that going in.
Put it to you this way: you wake up tomorrow, and the Yanks have signed you to a multi-year deal to, I don't know, play your position, say.
Would you ever want to leave?
Would I ever leave? Hell no. But, that doesn't mean that Carl is the same. Maybe he hated his teamates and the coaching staff. Maybe he thought it was going to be great but it just didn't end up well.
And let me ask you this question. Lets say you were signed to a multi-year deal by the Yankees and there were BS rumors that you hated it here and wanted to leave. Wouldn't you immediately make a statement that these rumors are not true?
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 06:42 PM
This is nonsense. Not one person on this site can speak intelligently on the experience of playing for the Yankees. Why bother asking a question that can only be answered by someone who isn't remotely qualified to do so?
Yet we'll also make medical diagnosis and assess a player's heart.
This is nonsense. Not one person on this site can speak intelligently on the experience of playing for the Yankees. Why bother asking a question that can only be answered by someone who isn't remotely qualified to do so?
Gottya.
Then we aren't qualified to comment on anything on this board, as none of is "remotely qualified to do so"..
And I was asking him to imagine what it would be like. Lighten up a bit, OK?
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 06:43 PM
Yet we'll also make medical diagnosis and assess a player's heart.
Can't argue with that. I guess this is just one small step farther into lunacy.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 06:44 PM
Who said I have no doubts? I just don't believe the story.
The rest is more of you playing armchair doctor and I'll reiterate: your opinion on Pavano's injury and ability to pitch throught it is worthless.
It seemed like you among others seem to think that this story just can't be true.
Yes, that's fine, but that doesn't even matter for this thread.
I Love Wang
11-18-05, 06:44 PM
Gottya.
Then we aren't qualified to comment on anything on this board, as none of is "remotely qualified to do so"..
And I was asking him to imagine what it would be like. Lighten up a bit, OK?
Wrong. We're having a discussion about the possibility that Pavano may want to no longer be a Yankee. You're dismissing the possibility as rubbish, and one of the points of your defense is that you don't think you would want to leave the Yankees. If I want to point out how meaningless that is, I'm going to do so.
Astorian
11-18-05, 06:45 PM
He hasn't really done either, has he?
Seeing as how I'm not in the Yankee organization, nor do I know Pavano personally (or have his phone tapped). I couldn't tell you whether or not he's spoken to anyone affiliated with the team. By the same token, why are you so sure that he hasn't?
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 06:46 PM
It seemed like you among others seem to think that this story just can't be true.
Nope. Didn't say it can't be true, just don't trust this story.
It seems you're struggling with the concept.
Would I ever leave? Hell no. But, that doesn't mean that Carl is the same. Maybe he hated his teamates and the coaching staff. Maybe he thought it was going to be great but it just didn't end up well.
And let me ask you this question. Lets say you were signed to a multi-year deal by the Yankees and there were BS rumors that you hated it here and wanted to leave. Wouldn't you immediately make a statement that these rumors are not true?
Honestly? I might do it once with something like....
"While it is my policy not to answer base-less inuendo (sp?), I will do so this once, because of my great love for the family that is the New York Yankees: my fellow players, my coaches, the management and Mr. Steinbrenner: I love it here and have absolutely no desire to ever leave, if they'll have me"
WebsterMulligan
11-18-05, 06:47 PM
Most people on this Board (much less, most Yankee fans) have not even heard the Pettitte rumor.
I certainly have'nt. Does it come from a reliable source?
BronxByTheBay
11-18-05, 06:47 PM
Can't argue with that. I guess this is just one small step farther into lunacy.
Which is my point. Carl Pavano may want out of NY, but the folks jumping on him for being a wimp with a fake injury based on an unnamed sourced story are utterly clueless.
NYYBombshell
11-18-05, 06:51 PM
Can you please explain why it is so shocking that it could actually be true that a player does not like playing for the Yankees?
It's the same crap we heard earlier, only re-warmed and served back up again. Are there people who don't want to/don't like playing here? Sure. Do I think Pavano is one of them? No.
This whole thing sounds fake.
Wrong. We're having a discussion about the possibility that Pavano may want to no longer be a Yankee. You're dismissing the possibility as rubbish, and one of the points of your defense is that you don't think you would want to leave the Yankees. If I want to point out how meaningless that is, I'm going to do so.
Wrong. ;)
I never dismissed the possibility out of hand. I expressed an opinion that, based on the crap the press writes and Pavano's love of the Yankees growing up, it seemed highly unlikely that he would want to leave. After having played less than half a season...after an injury.
And you have every right to do so, of course. :)
Might be nice if you did it in a bit kinder manner, but, hey--it's obviously your call. :)
Astorian
11-18-05, 07:07 PM
Nope. Didn't say it can't be true, just don't trust this story.
Exactly! This story may very well be true. But I'm going to hold off on burning my Carl Pavano effigy until something a little more concrete than "unnamed sources close to him" can back this story up.
Jersey Yankee
11-18-05, 07:10 PM
These people have defended Pavano all year long and can't come to grips that shockingly, he might actually not like playing here!
I wish that players were allowed to tear up their contracts, since if that were the case, we wouldn't even have to trade him.
Hey, maybe we can get him to shoot some hoops w/Aaron "F" Boone.
Astorian
11-18-05, 07:19 PM
And as far as the people saying they want to hear it from Pavano's mouth, what the heck is he supposed to do? Hold a press conference tomorrow at 1 p.m. and announce he hates playing for the Yankees?
What? An unhappy player mouthing off to the press directly? Has this ever happened before?
The Q Bomb
11-18-05, 07:21 PM
Can you please explain why it is so shocking that it could actually be true that a player does not like playing for the Yankees?
It's not shocking that a player may not like playing for The Yankees. It is surprising that a player who is making a career changing decision and who has several very good options, would not come to a well thought out decision. Now, sometimes, no matter how well thought out the decision is it may turn out wrong but the guesses here, like he couldn't take the media scrutiny (and what breakup is being discussed here?), he hated his teammates and the coaching staff, etc. don't make much sense after a half year. I would assume, any reasonable person would assume, that a player did his due diligence about the type of clubhouse, coaching staff, media scrutiny, etc., that would come along with his new team. It might be difficult to know how you will react to those factors without actually experiencing them - but to be so quickly discouraged would indicate that Pavano (and his agent) is a real idiot or there is something much more serious to cause his supposedly urgent desire to get off this team.
Going back to the question of how could it be shocking that a player not like playing for The Yankees - the last couple of years I've wondered how a player COULD like playing for The Yankees. The Yankee organization always had very high standards for its players and the team, but the last several years the fans and the media have become like 4 million little Steinbrenners and I can't imagine it can be an enjoyable experience for most players, even the ever shrinking "core" group fans love to extoll. I'm afraid it will become more and more common place for players to opt to go to other teams a la that relief pitcher who just signed with Chicago, BJ Ryan apparently, to name but two.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 07:24 PM
This is all bullsh*t unless the guy is traded and confirms it. Yet more "sources according to his thinking" crap.
The guy could have gone virtually anywhere he wanted last off-season and made the same/more money. He wanted to be here. I bet he still does.
Bingo. The man grew up in Connecticut. He knew very well before last year what it's like in this area. Sounds like the papers were digging for a story on a slow news day.
yank4life2005
11-18-05, 07:25 PM
How about a Pavano for Jeremy Reed deal?
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 07:30 PM
Yep. There have been plenty of times when a sports figure is rumored to not like it in a certain place or wants to be traded and usually, that person makes it known that that is not the case. Herman Edwards just recently denied that he wanted to leave the Jets after there were rumors. The fact that Pavano has kept his mouth shut about this, instead of ending it very easily by stating that he wants to stay, speaks volumes.
If he didn't grow up in the area, I could understand it. He knew when he signed here for the third highest offer he received last year what it was like. A friend of a friend just informed me that Elvis is hanging out with John Lennon in Brazil.
SubwayFanatic
11-18-05, 07:32 PM
Why would these writers make up this story though?
Pavano is not exactly a superstar so it's not like this is going to be an enormous news story that sells a ton of papers. Sure, people are talking about it a bit now but it will die down. These writers are not going to receive a Pulitzer Prize for digging up this news that Pavano is unhappy in New York. I highy doubt they are going to be receiving any raises for writing it, either.
What the heck is in it for them?
jimmykey2
11-18-05, 07:32 PM
It's not shocking that a player may not like playing for The Yankees. It is surprising that a player who is making a career changing decision and who has several very good options, would not come to a well thought out decision. Now, sometimes, no matter how well thought out the decision is it may turn out wrong but the guesses here, like he couldn't take the media scrutiny (and what breakup is being discussed here?), he hated his teammates and the coaching staff, etc. don't make much sense after a half year. I would assume, any reasonable person would assume, that a player did his due diligence about the type of clubhouse, coaching staff, media scrutiny, etc., that would come along with his new team. It might be difficult to know how you will react to those factors without actually experiencing them - but to be so quickly discouraged would indicate that Pavano (and his agent) is a real idiot or there is something much more serious to cause his supposedly urgent desire to get off this team.
Going back to the question of how could it be shocking that a player not like playing for The Yankees - the last couple of years I've wondered how a player COULD like playing for The Yankees. The Yankee organization always had very high standards for its players and the team, but the last several years the fans and the media have become like 4 million little Steinbrenners and I can't imagine it can be an enjoyable experience for most players, even the ever shrinking "core" group fans love to extoll. I'm afraid it will become more and more common place for players to opt to go to other teams a la that relief pitcher who just signed with Chicago, BJ Ryan apparently, to name but two.
While I never try to bring up salaries, I must say that WE DESERVE the right to criticize players that don't live up to their capabilities. Pavano (and BJ Ryan if he had signed) got paid TOP DOLLAR to perform on the Yankees. Don't blame the fans because Pavano couldn't deal with the expectations and didn't like his teammates. Shawn Chacon got dropped off the moon and ROSE to the opportunity. Pavano didn't. That's no one's fault but his own.
I think many Yankee fans agree with me when I say we would trade Pavano for a bag of peanuts if someone picked up the remainder of his contract. I would take a role player or 2 lower level minor leaguers if the Yanks had to pay part of his salary. If he doesn't want to be here, we don't need (or want) him.
While I never try to bring up salaries, I must say that WE DESERVE the right to criticize players that don't live up to their capabilities. Pavano (and BJ Ryan if he had signed) got paid TOP DOLLAR to perform on the Yankees. Don't blame the fans because Pavano couldn't deal with the expectations and didn't like his teammates. Shawn Chacon got dropped off the moon and ROSE to the opportunity. Pavano didn't. That's no one's fault but his own.
I think many Yankee fans agree with me when I say we would trade Pavano for a bag of peanuts if someone picked up the remainder of his contract. I would take a role player or 2 lower level minor leaguers if the Yanks had to pay part of his salary. If he doesn't want to be here, we don't need (or want) him.
Agreed.... good post! If Carl wants out, we should show him the door (if it is really true).
Agreed.... good post! If Carl wants out, we should show him the door (if it is really true).
I agree---IF it's true.
Zimmers' Helmet
11-18-05, 07:44 PM
Bye-bye Carla.
Way to redeem yourself.
Hey, we can always ship him off to the desert for Vazquez. :D
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 07:46 PM
If he didn't grow up in the area, I could understand it. He knew when he signed here for the third highest offer he received last year what it was like. A friend of a friend just informed me that Elvis is hanging out with John Lennon in Brazil.
I don't see any reason why numerous reporters would make this up. Furthermore, even if he did grow up in NY and knew about the media, he still might not have realized how much he would dislike it. And, whether he grew up in NY or not has nothing to do with whether he would get along with his teamates and coaches.
Bye-bye Carla.
Way to redeem yourself.
Hey, we can always ship him off to the desert for Vazquez. :D
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Astorian
11-18-05, 07:46 PM
but to be so quickly discouraged would indicate that Pavano (and his agent) is a real idiot
I'm on your side in this debate...but he did fire his agent recently...
hmmm....
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 07:48 PM
I don't see any reason why numerous reporters would make this up. Furthermore, even if he did grow up in NY and knew about the media, he still might not have realized how much he would dislike it. And, whether he grew up in NY or not has nothing to do with whether he would get along with his teamates and coaches.
If he didn't realilze it then he is the dumbest human being in the history of mankind. I have trouble with these National Enquirer like "friends of the source stated" stories. If he is traded and comments or admits it, that's when I'll believe it.
WebsterMulligan
11-18-05, 07:53 PM
I wish that players were allowed to tear up their contracts, since if that were the case, we wouldn't even have to trade him.
I completely agree. If he truely does'nt like it in NY, he could simply void his contract and sign with someone else.
He would still be a lousy pitcher elsewhere.
Zimmers' Helmet
11-18-05, 07:59 PM
I don't usually believe in what I read in the papers; but in this case, I can't help but believe there's truth to it. Where there's smoke; there is usually fire and this isn't the first time that this rumor has been swirling around. The fact that Pavano hasn't come out and squashed the rumor as false is what makes this story credible. He's had plenty of time to do so.
Yankees1962
11-18-05, 08:05 PM
I don't usually believe in what I read in the papers; but in this case, I can't help but believe there's truth to it. Where there's smoke; there is usually fire and this isn't the first time that this rumor has been swirling around. The fact that Pavano hasn't come out and squashed the rumor as false is what makes this story credible. He's had plenty of time to do so.
I was listening to XM Radio's Home Plate today with Rob Dibble who comes from the same area of Connecticut that Pavano does and is somewhat related to Pavano through marriage. He stated that Pavano told him back early in the year that the New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is.
blazennyfan
11-18-05, 08:07 PM
heard white sox want to bring up their young cf so maybe yanks can get rowand for pavano. rowand is way better than giles on fielding and could hit
Astorian
11-18-05, 08:08 PM
Why would these writers make up this story though?
To sell papers? To get their name out? Attention?
Pavano is not exactly a superstar so it's not like this is going to be an enormous news story that sells a ton of papers.
The Yankees always sell papers. The fact that Pavano is not a superstar is all the better for the writer...less of a chance he gets "frozen out" in the future...and even if he does...Who'se gonna care that he couldn't get an interview with a non-superstar Yankee after they win their next World Series? As long as he doesn't piss off Jeter, A-Rod what does he lose?
Sure, people are talking about it a bit now but it will die down. These writers are not going to receive a Pulitzer Prize for digging up this news that Pavano is unhappy in New York. I highy doubt they are going to be receiving any raises for writing it, either.
What the heck is in it for them?
How much crap that never comes true do Peter Gammons and Buster Olney churn out? What's in it for them?
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 08:14 PM
I was listening to XM Radio's Home Plate today with Rob Dibble who comes from the same area of Connecticut that Pavano does and is somewhat related to Pavano through marriage. He stated that Pavano told him back early in the year that the New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is.
Okay, this makes me give the story some credibility. Dibble doesn't hold back and I find him credible.
Astorian
11-18-05, 08:14 PM
New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is.
This is also a very good reason for the skeptics not to believe this story...
Matsui55
11-18-05, 08:16 PM
If everyone is into "where there's smoke there's fire" stories, check out the Seattle and Detroit papers. Both have mentioned the Tigers and M's being "interested" in Pavano several times already this winter.
To add to the mix, near the trade deadline, the Seattle PI claimed the M's looked at dealing for Pavano for Meche and/or Pinero. If that deal got revived, the Yanks can easily spin one or both of those guys off for a CF.
Another possibility would be to attempt to package another player with Pavano to Seattle and get both, plus Reed (CF). You could even get really creative and try to pry Ichiro away with Reed, Pinero and Meche by adding Pavano, Posada (they want a C and a lefty bat- though Posada switch-hits) another arm (Wright? Chacon?) and a prospect or two (Duncan?) to the deal.
All FAR FETCHED, I know, but hey- things are slow.
As for the Detroit side- aside from them having $$$ to burn, and may be talked into taking Pavano without the Yanks contributing any $$, I don't see the connection- unless the Yanks want prospects to spin off in another deal (Rowand?). But if that were the case, I don't think Detroit would do it because they'd be feeding prospects to a division rival.
If everyone is into "where there's smoke there's fire" stories, check out the Seattle and Detroit papers. Both have mentioned the Tigers and M's being "interested" in Pavano several times already this winter.
To add to the mix, near the trade deadline, the Seattle PI claimed the M's looked at dealing for Pavano for Meche and/or Pinero. If that deal got revived, the Yanks can easily spin one or both of those guys off for a CF.
Another possibility would be to attempt to package another player with Pavano to Seattle and get both, plus Reed (CF). You could even get really creative and try to pry Ichiro away with Reed, Pinero and Meche by adding Pavano, Posada (they want a C and a lefty bat- though Posada switch-hits) another arm (Wright? Chacon?) and a prospect or two (Duncan?) to the deal.
All FAR FETCHED, I know, but hey- things are slow.
As for the Detroit side- aside from them having $$$ to burn, and may be talked into taking Pavano without the Yanks contributing any $$, I don't see the connection- unless the Yanks want prospects to spin off in another deal (Rowand?). But if that were the case, I don't think Detroit would do it because they'd be feeding prospects to a division rival.
Any situation in which the Yanks could deal Pavano for a young, solid CF I would be all for it.
goin for 27
11-18-05, 08:18 PM
Bingo. The man grew up in Connecticut. He knew very well before last year what it's like in this area. Sounds like the papers were digging for a story on a slow news day.
Maybe.
However, the whole story would die in a NY minute if Pavano simply picked up the phone, and dialed Mike and the Mad Dog, or something similar.
The fact that there is silence from him, makes me believe that there is at least some truth here.
YankeePride1967
11-18-05, 08:21 PM
Maybe.
However, the whole story would die in a NY minute if Pavano simply picked up the phone, and dialed Mike and the Mad Dog, or something similar.
The fact that there is silence from him, makes me believe that there is at least some truth here.
I don't think doing so would do any good. If he truly does want out of NY, well his "friend" just did him a big disservice today. Let's assume he asked or will ask the Yanks to trade him. He is due 3/30.95. He is coming off a pretty significant injury. That alone would make trading him difficult. Now, add on this story where it gives off the impression he can't handle the pressure and what little trade value he has is even further dilated. By coming on and proclaiming his desire now could be legit, or it could be damage control. Who knows what to believe.
I was listening to XM Radio's Home Plate today with Rob Dibble who comes from the same area of Connecticut that Pavano does and is somewhat related to Pavano through marriage. He stated that Pavano told him back early in the year that the New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is.
Dibble is actually pretty close to Carl, he gave him a good deal of advice before and after he was drafted by the Red Sox being from the New England area.
Astorian
11-18-05, 08:46 PM
I was listening to XM Radio's Home Plate today with Rob Dibble who comes from the same area of Connecticut that Pavano does and is somewhat related to Pavano through marriage. He stated that Pavano told him back early in the year that the New York press is always after him for stories and that they stretch the little information they have in their articles and blow it up bigger than it really is.
I don't doubt that. There's nothing in that statement that anybody here doesn't know already. I'm trying to read between the lines, and still can't find the proof that Carl Pavano hates playing for the Yankees.
I don't think that Derek Jeter was too happy with his vacation in Maui being front page news yesterday, but I also don't think he's ready to leave the Y's either. Pavano was an experienced major leaguer that grew up a Yankee fan. I find it hard to believe that he had no idea what it would be like playing here.
But then again, he fired his agent (the same agent that got him a great deal to play for his supposed boyhood dream club). I don't know what to believe anymore.
27IsNext
11-18-05, 09:30 PM
No balls.
Funny you should say that. Towards the very beginning of this previous season, he was given the nickname "Balls McShutout" by some on this message board.
MiamiKat
11-18-05, 10:13 PM
Funny you should say that. Towards the very beginning of this previous season, he was given the nickname "Balls McShutout" by some on this message board.Times change.
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 10:26 PM
Maybe he IS "Miserable".
If I signed a 4 year deal at $10 million per and spent half the season collecting checks with Kevin Brown, I'd be embarrassed AND miserable for not fulfilling my end of the bargain. We'll have to wait and see if he's "I want to be traded miserable".
That's not fair. Kevin Brown did his damndest to come back and try and help the team in their time of need.
It didn't work out, but he tried.
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 10:36 PM
That's not fair. Kevin Brown did his damndest to come back and try and help the team in their time of need.
It didn't work out, but he tried.
Yep. I understand why people hate Brown, but the fact is the guy risked serious injury on his back to come back before he should have because the Yanks desperately needed to throw out a pitcher after the allstar break against the Rangers. In fact, the Yankees first wanted Pavano to come back but his shoulder was a tad bit to sore to go out so Brown and his balky back had to come back and give it his full effort.
rightfielder21
11-18-05, 10:41 PM
No balls.
That's not fair, they are just very tiny...
That's not fair, they are just very tiny...
But hey, he's makes $10 million per year and I don't. :)
Mattpat11
11-18-05, 10:46 PM
But hey, he's makes $10 million per year and I don't. :)You're obviously just jealous.
Hell, I'm kind of shocked someone hasn't used that to defend ol Dire Straits Pavano
JeffWeaverFan
11-18-05, 10:46 PM
That's not fair, they are just very tiny...
Maybe that's why Alyssa Milano dumped him?
You're obviously just jealous.
Hell, I'm kind of shocked someone hasn't used that to defend ol Dire Straits Pavano
In a way. ;)
I would probably pay $10 million (if I had it) just to have the privilege of putting on the pinstripes and playind a major league game in Yankee Stadium.
It's kind of sad that Pavano may not feel the same way.
WebsterMulligan
11-18-05, 10:56 PM
I would probably pay $10 million (if I had it) just to have the privilege of putting on the pinstripes and playind a major league game in Yankee Stadium.
Have you ever considered going to a Yankee Fantasy Camp?
That would be pretty cool, IMO.
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