View Full Version : Would the Reds trade for Small?
Fabien Brandy
11-09-05, 09:47 AM
The Cincinnati Reds have excess OFers (with Chris Denorfia doing well in the AFL) and are desperate for pitching. Does Aaron Small have enough value to lead a deal for either Austin Kearns or Wily Mo Pena?
Others have mentioned Ryan Freel as a Figgins-type player.
And in Jason LaRue and Javier Valentin they have two interesting catchers and might deal one of them.
Anyone know if Cashman has been talking with the Reds front office?
Kearns wouldn't be an exact match as he's had less time in CF but between Matsui and Kearns they could make it work for a year and Kearns is the type of young OFer that they can build around if he's over the injury bug.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 09:48 AM
I'm sure Cash is bringing Small's name up in ALL trade talks. His value couldn't possibly be any higher than it is right now.
yanksconstantino24
11-09-05, 09:48 AM
I really don't know much about Kearns, but I'd love to have Wily Mo Pena back. I'm always hesitant to give up pitching, but I'd really consider Small for Pena.
27IsNext
11-09-05, 09:49 AM
I would do Small for Ryan Freel in a heartbeat. The Reds wouldn't.
the thread title is extremely misleading
Small for Willy Mo?
:roflmao:
THEBOSS84
11-09-05, 09:56 AM
I'm sure Cash is bringing Small's name up in ALL trade talks. His value couldn't possibly be any higher than it is right now.
Not only is his value so high, his salary will be so low added to the fact he showed the world he can succeed in NY unlike so many previous pitchers = high demand
27IsNext
11-09-05, 10:04 AM
You people actually think Small's trade value is high...
Fabien Brandy
11-09-05, 10:09 AM
the thread title is extremely misleading
Sorry - I just changed it.
People are laughing at the concept but realistically the Reds have to trade one OFer. Pena had an OBP of .304 this season with a horrid K/BB rate. Kearns is coming off two years of sub-100 OPS+ and is arbitration eligible. Freel is turning 30 and had a 91 OPS+ this year and 97 for his career. Would there really be other offers that far superior?
I also asked if Small could 'lead' a deal, with a Henn or DePaula or Pope around to fill it out as necessary.
The new owners will want to compete and apparently the feeling is that with Griffey and Dunn they have enough offense but need starters.
JeffWeaverFan
11-09-05, 10:13 AM
The answer is no. Small had a very good year but the fact is he is a 33 year old career minor league pitcher that has had one good third of a season. I think he can be an effective pitcher in this league, but his trade value isn't high. Furthermore, as for the Reds, Small doesn't fit their need because his G/F ratio is not good and they need pitchers (in that ballpark) that get a lot of groundballs. (Which is why their decision to sign Eric Milton - thank God we didn't - was so incredibly stupid).
Dr. Gonzo
11-09-05, 10:43 AM
You people actually think Small's trade value is high...
people think he is the best pitcher on the team. If they could trade him for anything worthwhile I would be ecstatic.
rightfielder21
11-09-05, 10:59 AM
The answer is no. Small had a very good year but the fact is he is a 33 year old career minor league pitcher that has had one good third of a season. I think he can be an effective pitcher in this league, but his trade value isn't high.
Are you familiar with the WIN METHOD? 10-0, Bitch...
yanksphan
11-09-05, 11:01 AM
You people actually think Small's trade value is high...
It's higher than it will ever be.
I think if Cash is truly shopping Yankees, Small's name will be included in any potential deal.
Fabien Brandy
11-09-05, 11:05 AM
I guess I'm confused as to how much value Wily Mo Pena or Austin Kearns or Ryan Freel have around the league based on their numbers, contract situations and glut on the Reds.
What would it take to get these guys?
Small was a very lucky find but his value is nowhere near that of Willy Mo or Austin Kearns. We could probably get Jason LaRue, but is he what we are looking for in a backup catcher?
Why don't we trade Small to the BBWAA? We can get exceptional value.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 11:47 AM
Small was a very lucky find but his value is nowhere near that of Willy Mo or Austin Kearns. We could probably get Jason LaRue, but is he what we are looking for in a backup catcher?
Not by himself, no. But if we're looking to move one of our immovable contracts (Posada for instance) - Small would be thrown in to "sweeten the deal"...
PittsburghYankeeFan
11-09-05, 11:55 AM
Not by himself, no. But if we're looking to move one of our immovable contracts (Posada for instance) - Small would be thrown in to "sweeten the deal"...
The guy goes 10-0 in a tense NY pennant race, with a CG shutout or two thrown in against very good teams.
He pitches well in the postseason, and almost wins the RJ meltdown game 3 of the ALDS--in pretty crappy conditions.
He costs next to nothing, so he is totally worth any risk for next year.
So why are we thinking about trading him? Are Connors and Emslie trolling this board?
yanksphan
11-09-05, 12:00 PM
The guy goes 10-0 in a tense NY pennant race, with a CG shutout or two thrown in against very good teams.
He pitches well in the postseason, and almost wins the RJ meltdown game 3 of the ALDS--in pretty crappy conditions.
He costs next to nothing, so he is totally worth any risk for next year.
So why are we thinking about trading him? Are Connors and Emslie trolling this board?
Are we ignoring the 10+ years of mediocre performances at the AAA level prior to his hot streak?
Or the 3 games at the end of the year (following the CGSO) where the offense continually bailed his ass out?
surge511
11-09-05, 12:11 PM
While Small was obviously great for us, I still think his trade value is as high as it is going to get. He is 33, and is running out of time. It would almost be good for him to be traded to the NL. He would probably get a chance to start, and pitching in the NL, he would have a greater chance at success.
ryanm1058123
11-09-05, 12:12 PM
Are you familiar with the WIN METHOD? 10-0, Bitch...
Damn, Aaron Small is one of the best pitchers in the game!
Evil Empire
11-09-05, 12:12 PM
Nah. I don't think they would. Half of a season means nothing.
yanksconstantino24
11-09-05, 12:15 PM
Small for Willy Mo?
:roflmao:
If I was giving up Wily Mo Pena, I'd rather be getting Aaron Small than Drew Henson.
I don't think the Reds would do Small for Pena, but if they would, I'd do it.
Even though Small basically stank up until last year, I still think he could help the Yankees in 2006. I think he'd be successful as a reliever/spot starter.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-09-05, 12:17 PM
Not by himself, no. But if we're looking to move one of our immovable contracts (Posada for instance) - Small would be thrown in to "sweeten the deal"...
Sure, someone might be interested in him as a kicker. But for an immovable contract like Posada's, he doesn't nearly make up for the money. For the caliber of players being talked about in this thread, Small doesn't come close to bringing them back in a trade.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 12:19 PM
Sure, someone might be interested in him as a kicker. But for an immovable contract like Posada's, he doesn't nearly make up for the money. For the caliber of players being talked about in this thread, Small doesn't come close to bringing them back in a trade.
Yeah, I agree. I was more arguing his "lack of value" more than anything else.
I agree with a poster above though that the NL may be a great landing spot for him, although Cincy might be a bad idea with all of his fly balls...San Diego would be a good spot probably.
MTYankee23
11-09-05, 12:21 PM
I guess I'm confused as to how much value Wily Mo Pena or Austin Kearns or Ryan Freel have around the league based on their numbers, contract situations and glut on the Reds.
What would it take to get these guys?
Probably a lot because they're cheap, and the Reds are low budget. Anyone able to speak on the defensive abilities of LaRue and Freel. Those are the two I'd be most interested in.
Probably a lot because they're cheap, and the Reds are low budget. Anyone able to speak on the defensive abilities of LaRue and Freel. Those are the two I'd be most interested in.
Freel is a typical super-utility guy whose defense is based on his speed. His range and hands are fine but he doesn't really excel at one particular position. LaRue has a strong arm but has shaky defense when it comes to blocking balls in the dirt. Overrall he is a fine catcher but he has his flaws.
bostonyankeefan
11-09-05, 01:23 PM
Small seems more valuable to the team as a 4th or 5th starter or long relief guy than he does in a trade. He showed that he has the stones to pitch here, and he makes peanuts I assume, so I do not want to trade him. I would be more comfortable trading Pavano who has a big contract, and may not have what it takes to pitch here.
SINCE77 2
11-09-05, 01:27 PM
Freel is a typical super-utility guy whose defense is based on his speed. His range and hands are fine but he doesn't really excel at one particular position. LaRue has a strong arm but has shaky defense when it comes to blocking balls in the dirt. Overrall he is a fine catcher but he has his flaws.
I'd take Hairston over Freel as far as utility guys go, but Freel could help this team from the #9 hole. LaRue never really interested me, but he would do as a Posada backup.
If I was giving up Wily Mo Pena, I'd rather be getting Aaron Small than Drew Henson.
I don't think the Reds would do Small for Pena, but if they would, I'd do it.
Even though Small basically stank up until last year, I still think he could help the Yankees in 2006. I think he'd be successful as a reliever/spot starter.
Yeah I'd trade Small for Pena too but there's no chance in hell the reds are even gonna consider this.
Yankeeah
11-09-05, 01:35 PM
Small for Pena is a great deal, but so is Crosby for Johan Santana, but it won't happen.
We don't know for sure how much or how little trade value Small has, but we do know that it probably won't get much higher then it is now.
Dr. Gonzo
11-09-05, 01:39 PM
Small seems more valuable to the team as a 4th or 5th starter or long relief guy than he does in a trade. He showed that he has the stones to pitch here, and he makes peanuts I assume, so I do not want to trade him. I would be more comfortable trading Pavano who has a big contract, and may not have what it takes to pitch here.
he has no value to this team as a 4 or 5. His pumpkin will burst. He isn't good. I don't get why people think he won't revert to the norm.
Trade him now, before he shows that he sucks and nothing can be had for him.
A four or a five, come on.
Stupid Flanders
11-09-05, 01:42 PM
Aaron Small isn't netting you Ryan Freel, Wily Mo Pena, Adam Dunn, or Austin Kearns.
Let's be realistic here.
If you're going to trade with Cincy, go after Dunn anyway. He'd cost more but he's be worth it. Pavano + a prospect?
Wonder if Cincy would trade Freel for a package starting with Depaula and or Colter been for openers. Oh and yes I'd trade either of them cause they're bums!
MisterNovember
11-09-05, 01:46 PM
Small seems more valuable to the team as a 4th or 5th starter or long relief guy than he does in a trade. He showed that he has the stones to pitch here, and he makes peanuts I assume, so I do not want to trade him. I would be more comfortable trading Pavano who has a big contract, and may not have what it takes to pitch here.
Does Pavano have a NTC? If not, I could see the Yanks picking up a chunk of his salary and getting one of the Reds OFers in return. When healthy, Pavano is a pretty decent groundball pitcher, so his style might translate well to that bandbox in Cincy.
I don't think Small will really fetch much in terms of a trade, the Yankees might as well just hold onto him in the hopes that he can somehow continue his inexplicable success.
Stupid Flanders
11-09-05, 01:51 PM
Does Pavano have a NTC?.Nope.
Stupid Flanders
11-09-05, 01:52 PM
Wonder if Cincy would trade Freel for a package starting with Depaula and or Colter been for openers. Oh and yes I'd trade either of them cause they're bums!Because of your signature, I'm going to ignore everything you say about team makeup.
NewEraYanks2527
11-09-05, 01:52 PM
I doubt Small is the starting point for any trade talk, as good a year he had I'm sure most GMs know it was one year out of many. Also I really don't see the Yankees trading with the Reds.
Nope.
DePaula and Bean are bums and they're not going anywhere in our organization so we might as well trade them for what we need. And lets be real neither of these guys are gonna bring back anything spectacular in any trade.
Stupid Flanders
11-09-05, 02:04 PM
DePaula and Bean are bums and they're not going anywhere in our organization might as well trade them for what we need. And lets be real neither of these guys are gonna bring back anything spectacular in any trade.
Ok.. I was responding to the question "does Pavano have a NTC"... but since you asked, Bean is not a "bum" nor is DePaula. DePaula was hurt. Bean has been outstanding in the minors.
What is your justification for calling them... "bums"?
Ok.. I was responding to the question "does Pavano have a NTC"... but since you asked, Bean is not a "bum" nor is DePaula. DePaula was hurt. Bean has been outstanding in the minors.
What is your justification for calling them... "bums"?
At 26 and 28 I really don't see either of them fitting into the Yankees future plans unless they have a really outstanding spring training and even then they'd still be a maybe. I love watching the young guys come up and contribute, it's always more exciting with the young players because they're talent ceiling is and unknown and it's fun watching them develop..However the Yankees seem to have to many of these players whose names are consistently thrown around as 'prospects', 'having value', etc.. but are in there mid to late 20's. These guys aren't prospects anymore and regardless of the numbers they might be putting up in AAA they're value is just depreciating as they get older. So I say get rid of them while they have some value. I'd love to see Colter Bean become come out of our bullpen if he can deliver but at 28 if he doesn't come through then what do we do? Send him to the minors until he's 30?
I Love Wang
11-09-05, 02:16 PM
I really don't know much about Kearns, but I'd love to have Wily Mo Pena back. I'm always hesitant to give up pitching, but I'd really consider Small for Pena.
Gee, are you sure you'd consider that? I don't know if I'm comfortable giving up a 30something career minor league journeyman for a 23-year old slugger who can play CF.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 02:17 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/baseball/mlb/kansas_city_royals/13116767.htm
the Reds, for now, still show no inclination to break up their four-outfielder collection of Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Austin Kearns and Wily Mo Peņa.
NYYRocket
11-09-05, 02:26 PM
Small has been a career AAA pitcher before this year, don't think he will bring much in trade unless he's packaged. Don't see a Small for Pena move
C-BUS CLIPPER
11-09-05, 02:58 PM
Now would be a good time to do it, before their new ownership gets settled in. But there is no way they will trade Small straight up. Even when Kearns asked to be traded, they ignored him, and sent him down to the minors. They will be asking for a lot more than just Small.
27IsNext
11-09-05, 03:14 PM
Let's go after Ryan Freel. Now.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 04:52 PM
Are we ignoring the 10+ years of mediocre performances at the AAA level prior to his hot streak?
Or the 3 games at the end of the year (following the CGSO) where the offense continually bailed his ass out?
Why talk about what a player did in the past??? Talk about what they do right now, all I have to say about Small is a low ERA, and a magnificent win/loss record and 10-0.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 04:53 PM
The guy goes 10-0 in a tense NY pennant race, with a CG shutout or two thrown in against very good teams.
He pitches well in the postseason, and almost wins the RJ meltdown game 3 of the ALDS--in pretty crappy conditions.
He costs next to nothing, so he is totally worth any risk for next year.
So why are we thinking about trading him? Are Connors and Emslie trolling this board?
I agree, he is a low risk and will have a low salary.
Kulish29
11-09-05, 04:59 PM
Funny how people forget that in Game 3 of the ALDS, he started to be ineffective after his 2nd inning.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:00 PM
Funny how people forget that in Game 3 of the ALDS, he started to be ineffective after his 3rd inning.
Are you implying that Small was ineffective after the 3rd inning??? Why was he even in that game so early when he wasnt the starting pitcher. Leiter was in early that game too.
Kulish29
11-09-05, 05:03 PM
Are you implying that Small was ineffective after the 3rd inning??? Why was he even in that game so early when he wasnt the starting pitcher. Leiter was in early that game too.
Now, I said after HIS 3rd inning. Meaning his 3rd inning of work. And I have also edited my post because he didnt pitch 3 innings. He pitched 2.2.
He came in and put out a fire for RJ. After that, he didnt do all that well.
Kulish29
11-09-05, 05:06 PM
The Yankees would be better off keeping Small to be their emergency starter/bullpen mop up guy.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:07 PM
Why talk about what a player did in the past??? Talk about what they do right now, all I have to say about Small is a low ERA, and a magnificent win/loss record and 10-0.
Why not talk about what a player did in the past?
swityak11
11-09-05, 05:11 PM
Freel is cheap, good and plays 2B where they have no prospects to take over. Why would the Reds trade him?
Ideally they would like to trade Sean Casey, move Dunn to first, and keep their OFers. They'll probably persue those avenues before any talk of Kearns/Pena comes up. And even then, Small wouldn't head a deal for either of them.
I can also see them trading Larue or Valentin. Both are similar catchers who put up good numbers and it's a position of strength.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:12 PM
Why talk about what a player did in the past??? Talk about what they do right now, all I have to say about Small is a low ERA, and a magnificent win/loss record and 10-0.
You do it all the time when you talk about Ruben.
Why the double standard?
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:17 PM
You do it all the time when you talk about Ruben.
Why the double standard?
B/c it works in his favor. ;)
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:21 PM
Why not talk about what a player did in the past?
past as in pre-Yankee days, he is talking about a guy when he was in AAA. Small is in the big leagues now.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:24 PM
You do it all the time when you talk about Ruben.
Why the double standard?
Ruben is our past, present, and future.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:24 PM
past as in pre-Yankee days, he is talking about a guy when he was in AAA. Small is in the big leagues now.
So we can't bring up Small's "pre-Yankee days" stats?
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:24 PM
Ruben is our past, present, and future.
way to dodge the question troll.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:26 PM
Ruben is our past, present, and future.
What does that mean?
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:28 PM
way to dodge the question troll.
SM, a troll?! Never! :lol:
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:34 PM
What does that mean?
It means Ruben played for us in the past seasons, is currently a Yankee, and will be a Yankee in 2006. Anyway about Small's pre-Yankee days, people say "career minor league player" without even giving the man a chance. So far so good in NY, why ruin a great thing??? We have made some pretty bad trades lately, I see no reason to trade Small. Like I said before he will work cheap, and the rewards will be grand and lavish.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:37 PM
way to dodge the question troll.
here we go with the name calling again. Cant have an adult discussion anywhere without these being pulled out of the hat. Just because I like Small, and thing he is a great addition does not justify harsh attacks.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:38 PM
here we go with the name calling again. Cant have an adult discussion anywhere without these being pulled out of the hat. Just because I like Small, and thing he is a great addition does not justify harsh attacks.
Then answer the question.
Those who bait with absurd statements, then don't back them up are typically referred to as trolls. You do it all the time, thus the label.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:42 PM
Then answer the question.
Those who bait with absurd statements, then don't back them up are typically referred to as trolls. You do it all the time, thus the label.
I already answered the question. You looked but did not see. You cant judge a player soley based on minor league stats, and what he did on previous teams. You can use some of that, however after a full year in NY I say go off of what Small did in 2005. I have been a Yankee fan for many years now and one thing has been constant, many, many players just cant cut it in NY. They can have sucessful careers elsewhere, but stink in the bronx. Small was 10-0 with an ERA of about 3, why ditch him??? I see no logic in trading him, its not like we are trying to unload a huge contract.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:42 PM
It means Ruben played for us in the past seasons, is currently a Yankee, and will be a Yankee in 2006. Anyway about Small's pre-Yankee days, people say "career minor league player" without even giving the man a chance. So far so good in NY, why ruin a great thing??? We have made some pretty bad trades lately, I see no reason to trade Small. Like I said before he will work cheap, and the rewards will be grand and lavish.
What does Ruben having been a Yankee in the past and now have to do w/ you defending him no matter how terrible he is? (And I love Ruben, but c'mon) Also, if the Yankees are smart, he won't be on the team next season.
People say "career minor leaguer" b/c that's what he had been up until his fairytale 2005 season. Did he have a tremendous 2005 season? He sure did, but you can't ignore the past, his career numbers.
Dr. Gonzo
11-09-05, 05:42 PM
Ruben will not be a yankee
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:45 PM
What does Ruben having been a Yankee in the past and now have to do w/ you defending him no matter how terrible he is? (And I love Ruben, but c'mon) Also, if the Yankees are smart, he won't be on the team next season.
People say "career minor leaguer" b/c that's what he had been up until his fairytale 2005 season. Did he have a tremendous 2005 season? He sure did, but you can't ignore the past, his career numbers.
which is why you sign him (Small) to a one year deal, play it safe like they did w/ Sturtze. Then give Small a multi-year deal. As for Ruben, there are 4 reserve spots on the roster (taking away a backup catcher), and 1 DH slot. Thats 5 roster spots, I dont see how giving 1 of those 5 roster spots to a man whose nickname is "clutch" should be a waste, or even a problem.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:45 PM
I already answered the question. You looked but did not see. You cant judge a player soley based on minor league stats, and what he did on previous teams. You can use some of that, however after a full year in NY I say go off of what Small did in 2005. I have been a Yankee fan for many years now and one thing has been constant, many, many players just cant cut it in NY. They can have sucessful careers elsewhere, but stink in the bronx. Small was 10-0 with an ERA of about 3, why ditch him??? I see no logic in trading him, its not like we are trying to unload a huge contract.
He didn't pitch a full season as a Yankee.
Why trade him? B/c he's not going to repeat what he did in 2005. If the Yankees think they can get someone good for him, they'll do it. (I'd like him to stay on the team as a longman/spot starter, but if he is traded, so be it)
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:48 PM
which is why you sign him (Small) to a one year deal, play it safe like they did w/ Sturtze. Then give Small a multi-year deal. As for Ruben, there are 4 reserve spots on the roster (taking away a backup catcher), and 1 DH slot. Thats 5 roster spots, I dont see how giving 1 of those 5 roster spots to a man whose nickname is "clutch" should be a waste, or even a problem.
You ignored my first question. Why do you defend Ruben no matter how bad he is? Hmmm?
Ruben's nickname is clutch? Since when? :lol:
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:48 PM
Ruben will not be a yankee
If Ruben is not a Yankee in 2006 I am done with the team. He works cheap, can DH as well as play LF and RF. He is a great pinch hitter off the bench as well. Torre likes him, I'd rather have Ruben over Bernie for that type of position on the team.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:49 PM
I already answered the question. You looked but did not see. You cant judge a player soley based on minor league stats, and what he did on previous teams. You can use some of that, however after a full year in NY I say go off of what Small did in 2005. I have been a Yankee fan for many years now and one thing has been constant, many, many players just cant cut it in NY. They can have sucessful careers elsewhere, but stink in the bronx. Small was 10-0 with an ERA of about 3, why ditch him??? I see no logic in trading him, its not like we are trying to unload a huge contract.
Huh?
I asked why the double standard.
You bring up Ruben's past moments (not even complete seasons) to justify a reason for bringing him back.
I use Small's past as being indicative of his inevitable return to the norm.
Again - why the double standard?
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:49 PM
he's not going to repeat what he did in 2005.
how do you know that????
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:51 PM
You ignored my first question. Why do you defend Ruben no matter how bad he is? Hmmm?
Ruben's nickname is clutch? Since when? :lol:
he's not bad, he has over 300 career home runs. He was great in 2004, as a Yankee by the way. So he didnt have the same numbers in 2005, well he was hurt, big deal.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:51 PM
Ruben's nickname is clutch? Since when? :lol:
what, his .231BA this year with runners on isn't clutch enough for you?
or his .167 PH avg?
did I mention his .226 DH avg?
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:52 PM
If Ruben is not a Yankee in 2006 I am done with the team. He works cheap, can DH as well as play LF and RF. He is a great pinch hitter off the bench as well. Torre likes him, I'd rather have Ruben over Bernie for that type of position on the team.
You are a Ruben fan and not a Yankees fan then.
He is not a good OFer. He is not a great PHer.
Torre likes him? Torre also likes Bernie in CF. Doesn't mean he is right.
Sierra Mist
11-09-05, 05:54 PM
Huh?
I asked why the double standard.
You bring up Ruben's past moments (not even complete seasons) to justify a reason for bringing him back.
I use Small's past as being indicative of his inevitable return to the norm.
Again - why the double standard?
read this about Small, straight from the official website, looks like there are others who want to give the man a well deserved chance......"I think Aaron Small should be a starter over Randy Johnson. Small was steadily effective, while Johnson was up and down all season and in the playoffs. The Yankees gave away better talent for Johnson than he can be any more. Why trade for a pitcher whose best years are behind him? -- "
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051104&content_id=1264417&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:55 PM
he's not bad, he has over 300 career home runs. He was great in 2004, as a Yankee by the way. So he didnt have the same numbers in 2005, well he was hurt, big deal.
Yes, he is bad.
He has over 300 career HR's? So what?
He is not good NOW. That's all that matters.
yanksphan- He sure redefined the word "clutch" w/ those numbers. :lol:
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:56 PM
read this about Small, straight from the official website, looks like there are others who want to give the man a well deserved chance......"I think Aaron Small should be a starter over Randy Johnson. Small was steadily effective, while Johnson was up and down all season and in the playoffs. The Yankees gave away better talent for Johnson than he can be any more. Why trade for a pitcher whose best years are behind him? -- "
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051104&content_id=1264417&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Well if Clyde from West Virginia thinks so, guess I change my mind.
and you still haven't answered the question.
Why the double standard?
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 05:57 PM
read this about Small, straight from the official website, looks like there are others who want to give the man a well deserved chance......"I think Aaron Small should be a starter over Randy Johnson. Small was steadily effective, while Johnson was up and down all season and in the playoffs. The Yankees gave away better talent for Johnson than he can be any more. Why trade for a pitcher whose best years are behind him? -- "
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051104&content_id=1264417&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
Well, since Clyde H agrees w/ you, then you MUST be right!
yanksphan
11-09-05, 05:57 PM
yanksphan- He sure redefined the word "clutch" w/ those numbers. :lol:
yeah, but those numbers are in the past (2005) - so they don't matter anymore.
How am I doing SierraMist?
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 06:02 PM
This turning into a joke, to sum things up though, Small is more valuable as a Yankee, than to be traded. As for Ruben Sierra, I am so confident that he will remain a Yankee, that if for some reason he is not on the Yankee roster in 2006, I will never post on this site again. Thats how confident I am that he will be back, its only 1 roster spot, and Joe likes him. Heck I like Ruben too.
Keep on dodging the question, SM.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 06:02 PM
This turning into a joke, to sum things up though, Small is more valuable as a Yankee, than to be traded. As for Ruben Sierra, I am so confident that he will remain a Yankee, that if for some reason he is not on the Yankee roster in 2006, I will never post on this site again. Thats how confident I am that he will be back, its only 1 roster spot, and Joe likes him. Heck I like Ruben too.
"turning into" a joke?
You're way late for this party.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 06:04 PM
yeah, but those numbers are in the past (2005) - so they don't matter anymore.
If it doesn't help SM's argument = it doesn't matter
YankeePride1967
11-09-05, 06:06 PM
There is an absolutely zero percent chance Ruben Sierra comes back in 2006. He is useless to us. He can't field and he can't hit.
IncredibleByNature
11-09-05, 06:18 PM
There is an absolutely zero percent chance Ruben Sierra comes back in 2006. He is useless to us. He can't field and he can't hit.
But he has over 300 career HR's and is nicknamed by Sierra Mist clutch!
Bloody hell, 80 odd posts and about 40 of them in this thread are about Ruben Sierra who is on his way out of the Bronx.
Yankees need to finally sell high and if we can get something that can help this team next season for Small then we need to really look at it. We got lucky with Small last year, average pitchers can have great years and then go back to their previous ways, Chris Hammonds 0.70 ERA season a case in point, oh and Esteban Loiaza's Cy Young calibre season in '03.
He's the Yankee I want traded because his value will never be higher.
whalers
11-09-05, 06:40 PM
He's the Yankee I want traded because his value will never be higher.
Very true.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 06:40 PM
He's the Yankee I want traded because his value will never be higher.
I love when a thread comes full circle...check out post #2 (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=90759&page=1&pp=25)
I love when a thread comes full circle...check out post #2 (http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=90759&page=1&pp=25)
Heh. I apologize for not having read the thread before I posted. The site is loading really slowly.
yanksphan
11-09-05, 06:52 PM
Heh. I apologize for not having read the thread before I posted. The site is loading really slowly.
No need to apologize at all!
Just funny when that stuff happens...
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-09-05, 08:53 PM
If Ruben is not a Yankee in 2006 I am done with the team.
Wow, what an odd thing to say for someone purportedly a long time yankee fan. I guess we can all look forward to your finding another team then.
PittsburghYankeeFan
11-10-05, 06:02 AM
Small seems more valuable to the team as a 4th or 5th starter or long relief guy than he does in a trade. He showed that he has the stones to pitch here, and he makes peanuts I assume, so I do not want to trade him. I would be more comfortable trading Pavano who has a big contract, and may not have what it takes to pitch here.
Now that's more like it. A big part of being a Yankee is the proven ability to get it done under the NY spotlight. So Small is 33? Career AAA player? He also went 10-0 in the middle of the closest pennant race in about 25 years.
Can you say Yhency Brazoban (the "kicker") for Kevin Brown? Dioner Navarro (the "kicker") for Randy Johnson? Both of whom could have actually fit into the Yankees 2006 plans?
These fairly dumb "kicker" combos had the Tampa faction desperation written all over them. Why didn't we hold out a bit more and trade Weaver or Vasquez (both pitchers who could not handle NY like Small did last season, BTW) straight up?
Unless some amazing deal that actually makes some sense comes up (say Torii Hunter for Small, as an unlikely example), leave the guy here. I think he is low risk, and I think he has a few seasons of decent 4th or 5th starter/long man left in him.
We gave Tanyon Sturtze a chance, didn't we?
Dr. Gonzo
11-10-05, 08:01 AM
Heh. I apologize for not having read the thread before I posted. The site is loading really slowly.
This is the simple truth, as it has been stated by anyone who can think we a brain and not a heart (was he a true yankee?). He will never come close to repeating his 10-0, which by the way masked some bad games, by the yanks scoring runs in case people forgot. Towards the end of the year it looked like in some of his starts that the wheels were coming off.
Hopefully some GM is dumb enough to but the can play in NY crap and give us a deal.
PittsburghYankeeFan
11-10-05, 08:32 AM
This is the simple truth, as it has been stated by anyone who can think we a brain and not a heart (was he a true yankee?). He will never come close to repeating his 10-0, which by the way masked some bad games, by the yanks scoring runs in case people forgot. Towards the end of the year it looked like in some of his starts that the wheels were coming off.
Hopefully some GM is dumb enough to but the can play in NY crap and give us a deal.
We should look at Randy Johnson's (as well as Mussina's) starts this year and ask the same question: how many bad games were "masked" by the Y's scoring runs?
Most GMs think like this thread, and will offer us nothing anyway. Again, low risk, high upside...
parkerstrong
11-10-05, 10:22 AM
which is why you sign him (Small) to a one year deal, play it safe like they did w/ Sturtze. Then give Small a multi-year deal. As for Ruben, there are 4 reserve spots on the roster (taking away a backup catcher), and 1 DH slot. Thats 5 roster spots, I dont see how giving 1 of those 5 roster spots to a man whose nickname is "clutch" should be a waste, or even a problem.
Because a player has a positive nickname doesnt mean he should be given a contract. I like the nickname "Donnie Baseball" but he shouldnt be a player next year.
The same Ruben Sierra who hit .229 this year? OBP of .265? He should come back when he has a negative impact on defense and lacks speed?
For the record, Tony Womack had a better average than Sierra, better OBP, and overall (counting his speed, defense and SB capabilities) regular season than Sierra.
Sierra's stats from last year
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=1720
Womack's stats from last year
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3000
When you have to argue if he was better than Womack you should know he shouldnt come back. 1 roster spot is very important!
Back to topic......I would trade Small if we get something decent in return. We dont have to trade him, but it doesnt hurt to see what we can get in a trade.
27IsNext
11-10-05, 01:00 PM
Can we trade Small for Ryan Freel? Pretty please?
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