View Full Version : Verducci: Posada being shopped
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/11/08/verducci.1108/index.html
INDIAN WELLS, Calif. -- The New York Yankees are actively gauging trade interest in catcher Jorge Posada, according to baseball executives at the general managers meetings here. And if the Yankees can't move Posada, they have considered acquiring a catcher and giving Posada the bulk of his starts at first base, with Jason Giambi becoming the regular designated hitter.
ZYanksRule
11-08-05, 12:52 PM
Just read that. I like the idea, Molina is a pretty good player, and Posada is on the downswing of his career. Maybe moving him to first will help him get his bat back, because he won't be so tired.
IF we trade him, there's our CF right there, I would think.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/11/08/verducci.1108/index.html
Not bashing Jorge---but good move FO
I don't have a link but I saw a line on Rotoworld.com with Cashman denying that he is interested in having Posada play more time at 1b.
MTYankee23
11-08-05, 12:56 PM
Not bashing Jorge---but good move FO
I think it will be tough to move him with the vesting option, but the move to occaisional 1B/DH is a good one. I'm sure he won't be so happy about it though.
Also prefer Ramon Hernandez to Molina.
whalers
11-08-05, 12:57 PM
Not bashing Jorge---but good move FO
Agreed. Didnt Jorge come up as an infielder rather than a cathcer. I am not sure what position but I remember reading about it somewhere.
I don't have a link but I saw a line on Rotoworld.com with Cashman denying that he is interested in having Posada play more time at 1b.
I wouldn't mind Posada playing more games at 1st base therefore him catching less games and not vesting that 12 million option for next year.
I like this move alot, but I hope they dont get Bengie, Ramon would be a better option or even Ausmus. Bengie wants atleast a 3 year deal and a big pay raise from what I have been hearing down here in Anaheim.
Stupid Flanders
11-08-05, 01:01 PM
Ramon. Hernandez.
Say it with me, people.
SINCE77 2
11-08-05, 01:01 PM
"After the Yankees indicated they have no interest in trading Robinson Cano for Torii Hunter, Minnesota is telling people its intend to keep the center fielder. Hunter, though, may need to make sure no ill will remains in the Twins' clubhouse. A source said it was Hunter who took a swing at Justin Morneau in their late-season scuffle and that Hunter, who questioned his teammate's desire to play through an injury, previously angered Morneau by chirping at him from the on-deck circle while Morneau was preparing to bat. ... The Yankees have kicked around the idea of acquiring Milton Bradley from Los Angeles to play center field. Brad Wilkerson of Washington is another center fielder being discussed"
I'm glad to see the Wilkerson name being mentioned here. As far as Posada is concerned, I wouldn't mind an upgrade behind the plate, but I really don't care for Molina. Give me Hernandez instead.
whalers
11-08-05, 01:04 PM
Agreed. Didnt Jorge come up as an infielder rather than a cathcer. I am not sure what position but I remember reading about it somewhere.
To answer my own question, the article mentions he was signed as a second baseman.
MisterNovember
11-08-05, 01:06 PM
I don't really see Posada as a viable option to play 1B. As sad as it is, I'd rather see Giambi start at 1B and Posada DH.
I think the Yankees should seriously look into trading posada...what teams might potentially be in the market for a catcher?
Interesting. I'm not sure that many teams would want JoPo, though.
yanksphan
11-08-05, 01:10 PM
Verducci's is an idiot...
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57012.htm
n other developments, Cashman shot down a rumor that had the Yankees toying with the idea of playing Jorge Posada at first base two to three times a week next year.
And he was anxious to at least lay the groundwork for a trade or free-agent signing.
"I'm here to find out what the heck is available and go from there," Cashman said. "Six-hour flight to L.A. and a two-hour flight [to Palm Springs]. [I] better come back with a player."
Cashman said the Posada issue has "never been discussed."
"That's something that doesn't interest me," he said.
The move seemed curious from the beginning and not because Posada has played only 16 big-league games at the position. First, the Yankees would be required to find a player able to catch at least 70 games a season and that's not easy.
"Those kind of guys aren't out there," a talent evaluator said last night. "You either get a starter or a backup who can catch 40 games a year."
Second, Posada likely would balk at the part-time position switch since it would put the vesting of a $12 million option for 2007 in danger. If Posada starts 82 games next year he is guaranteed $12 million for the following season.
I don't really see Posada as a viable option to play 1B. As sad as it is, I'd rather see Giambi start at 1B and Posada DH.
I think the Yankees should seriously look into trading posada...what teams might potentially be in the market for a catcher?
The Mets? I think Minaya would bite.
StatenIslandYankee
11-08-05, 01:12 PM
I love this idea.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-08-05, 01:13 PM
Mark19 is right, there was a report from some newspaper (I think the Bergen Record) in which Cashman shot down the idea of Posada moving to first base. Basically it noted that he has played something like a total of 19 games there. It's not surprising that he's being shopped though, Posada's numbers are in a decline and no one should expect that to reverse course now. But I thought that I read that his contract calls for a $12 million option to be triggered if he catches more than 85 games this year. Needless to say, unless the Yankees are taking back a big contract, or are willing to eat that salary, Posada is almost untradeable. I don't think Posada is going anywhere and they'll bring back Flaherty, or a Flaherty equivalent to split some more time with Jorge.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-08-05, 01:14 PM
Verducci's is an idiot...
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/57012.htm
Thank you, you got the facts better than my half assed recollection of the situation.
cuban_yanksfan
11-08-05, 01:14 PM
Just read that. I like the idea, Molina is a pretty good player, and Posada is on the downswing of his career. Maybe moving him to first will help him get his bat back, because he won't be so tired.
IF we trade him, there's our CF right there, I would think.
True, Posada is in decline. We have been very fortunate to have a catcher of his offensive caliber. Catchers are usually 8 or 9 hitters for most teams. Its a hard position to get good offensive production.
If we get rid of Posada, getting a very good catcher has to become top priority. Not just a catcher, a very good catcher.
last 4 WS champs + starting catcher
Angels - Molina
Marlins - Pudge
Sox - Varitek
Chi Sox - A.J. (not great but productive offensivly)
What we really need is a backup catcher who can handle 50-60 games behind the plate.
The FA options aren't very attractive:
Sandy Alomar
Paul Bako
Gary Bennett
Todd Greene
Todd Pratt
and, of course, #1 Jeter fan Ken Huckaby
SINCE77 2
11-08-05, 01:16 PM
What we really need is a backup catcher who can handle 50-60 games behind the plate.
The FA options aren't very attractive:
Sandy Alomar
Paul Bako
Gary Bennett
Todd Greene
Todd Pratt
and, of course, #1 Jeter fan Ken Huckaby
Isn't Einar Diaz also available?
mjdlight
11-08-05, 01:16 PM
The FA options aren't very attractive:
Sandy Alomar
Paul Bako
Gary Bennett
Todd Greene
Todd Pratt
I'd like to bring in Todd Greene to be the backup catcher. Cheap way to upgrade a position we got zero production out of last year. Can RJ handle losing Flash?
38Special
11-08-05, 01:18 PM
Guys, really think about this. If someone asks Cashman if hes looked into moving Posada, is there any possible reason why he would say yes? Even if thats the biggest issue on his agenda, he cant go telling people that. What if a deal doesnt get done? It also could affect possible negotiations with a new catcher.
Let's try to take everything at face value
ChrisV82
11-08-05, 01:19 PM
If we trade Posada for an outfielder or whatever, we really need to do something about catching. Our total catching offense was like .230 with Flaherty and Posada.
Isn't Einar Diaz also available?
He is but his numbers indicate that he would be worse than Flaherty.
whalers
11-08-05, 01:23 PM
Guys, really think about this. If someone asks Cashman if hes looked into moving Posada, is there any possible reason why he would say yes? Even if thats the biggest issue on his agenda, he cant go telling people that. What if a deal doesnt get done? It also could affect possible negotiations with a new catcher.
Let's try to take everything at face value
I agree but I have a hard time taking you seriously with the run fairy as you avatar
The bottom line remains: Who will take him? We are not going to get much in return. So the Yanks need to pursue this knowing that they can get another front-line catcher in return (Molina, Ramon) and adequate value for JoPo.
It's going to be tough.
NelsonMuntz
11-08-05, 01:24 PM
Brad Wilkerson of Washington is another center fielder being discussed".
Hope there's some truth to this. :clapping:
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 01:25 PM
Guys, really think about this. If someone asks Cashman if hes looked into moving Posada, is there any possible reason why he would say yes? Even if thats the biggest issue on his agenda, he cant go telling people that. What if a deal doesnt get done? It also could affect possible negotiations with a new catcher.
Let's try to take everything at face value
This is true, what reason would Cashman have to tell us the truth? If a trade doesn't get done, do you want to have pissed off Posada on your club next season knowing that the FO wanted to trade his ass?
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
11-08-05, 01:29 PM
I'd like to bring in Todd Greene to be the backup catcher. Cheap way to upgrade a position we got zero production out of last year. Can RJ handle losing Flash?
We've gone down that road with him before, and now he's about 4 years older. Pass.
Dr. Gonzo
11-08-05, 01:29 PM
I don't want to see him at first, but I also don't want that 2007 option to be vested.
I hope they can trade him, I wish they traded him in the RJ deal a year back (does anyone remember what the deal with posada was?) That would have been great.
But in the end who is going to trade for him with that contract option. We would have to kick in a bunch of money, and would it even be worth it?
YankeeStripes
11-08-05, 01:30 PM
If we could package him with a prospect and get a decent centerfielder, I am all for it. He really is starting to decline.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 01:32 PM
If we could package him with a prospect and get a decent centerfielder, I am all for it. He really is starting to decline.
Yeah my friends and I referred to Posada as AO (automatic out) this past season.
with noone on he strikes out and with man on first you hope he'll strike out but he does one better and hits into a double play
This is retarted. We'd get nothing of value back for him unless we pay a major portion of his salary. And if they sign Molina I'm gonna assume Cashman isn't an honest man.
It's OK. We're paying a major portion of Pavano's salary and Wright's salary in trades too. No harm in adding JoPo's to that.
AMYanks
11-08-05, 01:41 PM
I'd love to not have that '07 option hovering around anymore.
ICEBERG18
11-08-05, 01:41 PM
This is true, what reason would Cashman have to tell us the truth?
When has Cashman ever lied though?
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 01:43 PM
When has Cashman ever lied though?
This is a tough question to answer, as we don't know a tenth of what goes on behind the scenes in Yankeeland...
I don't think he's lying to deceive us. I think he's not divulging his true intentions to protect the team unity and to hold the upper hand in any negotiations.
If he is lying, that is.
Bob Barker
11-08-05, 01:44 PM
How about a sign and trade for Giles and Hernandez
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 01:44 PM
I don't think he's lying to deceive us. I think he's not divulging his true intentions to protect the team unity and to hold the upper hand in any negotiations.
If he is lying, that is.
Well put GDN...
How about a sign and trade for Giles and Hernandez
Posada for Giles AND Hernandez?
You better have Kevin Towers hopped up on coke, meth, alcohol and pot at the same time to make that happen.
Stupid Flanders
11-08-05, 01:46 PM
How about a sign and trade for Giles and Hernandez
Huh? This isn't the NBA.
Bob Barker
11-08-05, 01:48 PM
As it San Diego is going to get nothing in return for them as they are both going to walk as free agents. They are going to have to replace a catcher and some of that offensive production. This is not that unreasonable
NewEraYanks2527
11-08-05, 01:53 PM
How is Ramon Hernandez with the pitching staff, I know the Angels pitching staff thinks the world of Bengie Molina so how is Ramon in dealing with the pitchers? Personally I think Bengie is a good option because of the fact he handles the pitching staff so well but I know very little about how Hernandez does in that department.
yanksphan
11-08-05, 01:54 PM
As it San Diego is going to get nothing in return for them as they are both going to walk as free agents. They are going to have to replace a catcher and some of that offensive production. This is not that unreasonable
They're already FAs. They can't be traded.
yanksphan
11-08-05, 01:55 PM
How is Ramon Hernandez with the pitching staff, I know the Angels pitching staff thinks the world of Bengie Molina so how is Ramon in dealing with the pitchers? Personally I think Bengie is a good option because of the fact he handles the pitching staff so well but I know very little about how Hernandez does in that department.
The pitchers here in SD always had nothing but praise for him.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 02:00 PM
There is no chance that Posada gets traded:
a) with the contract he has, if he plays 63 games at catcher next season a $12 mill option kicks in for the 07 season - who would want to pay a 4th tier 1b $8 mil for 06?
b) he is obviously getting old/on the decline - he did not look good at all this year, he maybe had one short one week stretch in september (he took Bruce Chen into left field upper deck at YS)
c) this reason might not be so good but he is DJ's best friend - I wonder how that would sit with Derek
yankees76
11-08-05, 02:03 PM
There's a reason why Tom is affectionately known as Ver-douche on this Board.
Can't wait until the YES Hot Stove Report starts up and he speaks glowingly of players that he trashed the week before in his column.
27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:11 PM
Something to keep in mind: Cashman never denied that he was shopping Posada, he merely denied that he would play him at first base. Arizona would probably take Posada, if we pay a portion of the salary, since they want a C who has some power to his bat.
That being said, there aren't really many good options out there as far as catchers go. Hernandez is coming back from a wrist injury--far too big a risk IMO. Bengie isn't really a big improvement over Posada either. There's always that Japanese free agent Kenji Jojima, but I can't really see that working.
27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:12 PM
c) this reason might not be so good but he is DJ's best friend - I wonder how that would sit with Derek
Derek can get over it. The Yankees need to do what's best for the team, not what's best for Derek Jeter.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 02:13 PM
Something to keep in mind: Cashman never denied that he was shopping Posada, he merely denied that he would play him at first base. Arizona would probably take Posada, if we pay a portion of the salary, since they want a C who has some power to his bat.
That being said, there aren't really many good options out there as far as catchers go. Hernandez is coming back from a wrist injury--far too big a risk IMO. Bengie isn't really a big improvement over Posada either. There's always that Japanese free agent Kenji Jojima, but I can't really see that working.
The hardest part about a Japanese catcher would be the communication between himself and the pitchers...this guy won't stand a chance unless he speaks fluent english.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 02:13 PM
Derek can get over it. The Yankees need to do what's best for the team, not what's best for Derek Jeter.
Yeah it was kind of a weak reason but just floating it out there.
surge511
11-08-05, 02:18 PM
c) this reason might not be so good but he is DJ's best friend - I wonder how that would sit with Derek
Is this true? I always thought Derek's best friends were Tino and Bernie. I guess you learn something every day.
27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:21 PM
The hardest part about a Japanese catcher would be the communication between himself and the pitchers...this guy won't stand a chance unless he speaks fluent english.
That was exactly my point. I can't imagine the language barrier possibly working out.
That was exactly my point. I can't imagine the language barrier possibly working out.
Maybe he speaks English?
27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:38 PM
Do we know if he does? If so, I'm all for signing him and trading Posada.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 02:40 PM
Do we know if he does? If so, I'm all for signing him and trading Posada.
Haha you know nothing about him!! I guess you just are tired of Posada..
yanksphan
11-08-05, 02:46 PM
couple of pertinent things from this article...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20051107-9999-1s7padres.html
Catcher Ramon Hernandez, described as irreplaceable by several Padres teammates last season, still seems likely to depart in free agency
One catcher who intrigues the Padres is Kenji Jojima, a star of the Japanese Leagues. Jojima's English skills are crude, but the Padres have scouted him for more than a year. Padres reliever Akinori Otsuka has offered to help Jojima in translating. Otsuka rates Jojima equal to or better than many regular catchers in the majors.
27IsNext
11-08-05, 02:48 PM
Again, if he could speak English, I'd sign him in a heartbeat.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 02:48 PM
couple of pertinent things from this article...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20051107-9999-1s7padres.html
Good job YANKSPHAN...yeah so I guess whenever the catcher comes out to talk to the pitcher Otsuka will come to the mound as well?? Not a likely scenario....
nyg02005
11-08-05, 02:50 PM
This is the year to get a catcher for the long term with so many catchers available in the market. Next year there are no young F.A. catcher.
AMYanks
11-08-05, 02:56 PM
I would like to move Posada soon so he have a chance at Ramon Hernandez. We'll have to see what his price will be.
nyyanksfan20
11-08-05, 02:57 PM
Why do people like Ramon Hernandez? He only threw out 25% runners and he doesn't block the plate well. Posada's a better defensive catcher. I'd much rather have Bengie who is superior on defense maybe not as good bat.
I wouldn't mind signing the Japanese catcher, but im keeping Posada if I do that. I've read he speaks very little English which is why I'd let him backup Posada at least for this year.
I don't see anyway Posada is gone this year and honestly he shouldn't be. Just get a better backup so Posada can get more rest and he will be fine.
This is the year to get a catcher for the long term with so many catchers available in the market. Next year there are no young F.A. catcher.
With Posada most probably on the team next year and making about 13 million, the Yankees can't afford to put almost 20 million dollars toward the catching position this year and next.
nyg02005
11-08-05, 03:04 PM
With Posada most probably on the team next year and making about 13 million, the Yankees can't afford to put almost 20 million dollars toward the catching position this year and next.
they can structure the new catcher contract in such a way that it is less this year. Make the guy the catcher for most of the 2006 season's games therefore poasda will not reach the guarantee portion of his contract.
they can structure the new catcher contract in such a way that it is less this year. Make the guy the catcher for most of the 2006 season's games therefore poasda will not reach the guarantee portion of his contract.
Torre will make sure that Posada reaches the minimum number of games to get the 2007 contract. Torre's loyalty will be more towards Posada then the new guy.
nyg02005
11-08-05, 03:18 PM
Torre will make sure that Posada reaches the minimum number of games to get the 2007 contract. Torre's loyalty will be more towards Posada then the new guy.
Then torre should be fired if he does not follow the GM's plan. No one person's interest is above the team's.
Then torre should be fired if he does not follow the GM's plan. No one person's interest is above the team's.
Agreed.
Then torre should be fired if he does not follow the GM's plan. No one person's interest is above the team's.
I would love it if the Yankees can get out of Posada's contract for next year, it would give the Yankees more payroll flexibility, but I don't think its possible. Brian Cashman and Joe Torre are tight and Cashman won't fire Torre for playing Posada.
a vesting option where 12 million kicks in for a 36 year old catcher.
what a god awful contract that is. holy shiit.
nyg02005
11-08-05, 03:31 PM
I would love it if the Yankees can get out of Posada's contract for next year, it would give the Yankees more payroll flexibility, but I don't think its possible. Brian Cashman and Joe Torre are tight and Cashman won't fire Torre for playing Posada.
If we get a new good catcher that means cashman is not planning for posada to be the regular catcher.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 03:32 PM
a vesting option where 12 million kicks in for a 36 year old catcher.
what a god awful contract that is. holy shiit.
Yeah seriously man...I never understood why contracts would be backloaded as opposed to front loaded...generally you get the best years out of the signed player at the begining of the contract and therefore you pay for what you get, whereas you generally get the less productive years from the signed player in the last years in the contract and in that case you pay less since the production would be worse than before.
Kulish29
11-08-05, 03:33 PM
Trade Posada to the Rockies for Helton.
Kidding, kidding.
Then torre should be fired if he does not follow the GM's plan. No one person's interest is above the team's.
Why? Torre wouldn't be doing anything wrong. If the GM didn't want Posada to reach the minimum number of games that would kick up Posada's money then he shouldn't have made that horribly contract with him.
If we get a new good catcher that means cashman is not planning for posada to be the regular catcher.
I think we'll have to bite the bullet and ride out Posada for the next two years. All Posada needs is 60 games as a catcher. Even if we get a new catcher, Torre will easily get Posada 60 games. I think Flaherty got 47 games this year.
ReggieBar
11-08-05, 03:47 PM
This is the year to get a catcher for the long term with so many catchers available in the market. Next year there are no young F.A. catcher.
I believe Brian Schneider of WAS will be a FA next year. In which case, I'd prefer him to either Molina or Hernandez. He's younger and is a great defensive C. Lefty swinger too.
DontHateOnNumber2
11-08-05, 03:50 PM
Just read that. I like the idea, Molina is a pretty good player, and Posada is on the downswing of his career. Maybe moving him to first will help him get his bat back, because he won't be so tired.
IF we trade him, there's our CF right there, I would think.
I can't imagine not seeing Jorge behind the plate, but then again I don't enjoy watching him at bat much anymore either. As far as him being traded, I'm not sure I can think of a team that would grab him.
Gah..... Posada at first?
This sounds like a great way to get an inept defender in there and to utilize the wrong side of Giambi's cavernous gap between his 1B and DH production. As well as keep Sheffield in right the whole time (as the DH position will not be open to him), where he is very bad.
If you are going to trade Posada just trade him and eat contract. His hitting isn't valuable enough from a 1B position to even come close to meriting the limitations that having him play there would cause on the rest of the order.
Again, if he could speak English, I'd sign him in a heartbeat.
I would too but according to Peter Gammon's in one of his articles a while back he said that Johjima had a slight knee tear I think and that major league clubs were staying away from him.
edit: Actually it was a hairline fracture
There has been speculation that the Mets will go after Japanese catcher Kenji Jojima, a very good catch-and-throw guy who can hit. "He is very good," said one Mets official. "But it's not going to happen."
Why? Not because of a hairline fracture in his leg. Jojima speaks no English, and one thing catchers have to do is communicate.
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2192785
nyg02005
11-08-05, 04:35 PM
I believe Brian Schneider of WAS will be a FA next year. In which case, I'd prefer him to either Molina or Hernandez. He's younger and is a great defensive C. Lefty swinger too.
I did not see in mlb4u.com schneider name in the F.A. list after 2006 season.
montrealer
11-08-05, 04:50 PM
Who`s going to pick up a over the hill catcher that owed a boat load of money(around 20 million over the next 2 yrs.).......sounds like wishful thinking to me in here.Ain`t going to happen .
yank4life2005
11-08-05, 07:10 PM
Posada should be the DH so he stays fresh. He is a switch hitter with power from both sides of the plate and can draw a walk. I think he can be easily put up .270/25/85 if he doesn't have the wear and tear of catching everyday. Sign a guy like Hernandez or Molina and let Jorge catch some games to give the full-timers a rest.
Giambi MUST play 1st base because his numbers as a DH stinks.
I don't think any team would take Po's onerous contract, but I would certainly explore trading him.
27IsNext
11-08-05, 07:15 PM
I wouldn't be at all suprised if Arizona took him. Problem is, there's no one out there who's a good option to replace him. If this Jojima guy could speak English, I'd be all for signing him, assuming we were gonna trade Posada.
The Y's can't have giambi and posada occupy the DH and 1B slots because they need DH to be available for Shef often and Matsui sometimes. They are going to have to live with Posada and find someone who can play 1B and corner OF. Posada can't be traded with his contract.
yank4life2005
11-08-05, 07:22 PM
I wouldn't be at all suprised if Arizona took him. Problem is, there's no one out there who's a good option to replace him. If this Jojima guy could speak English, I'd be all for signing him, assuming we were gonna trade Posada.
AZ sounds good and would love to get Conor Jackson to play 1st as a backup to Giambi. We would have to eat alot of contract though.
I wouldn't be at all suprised if Arizona took him. Problem is, there's no one out there who's a good option to replace him. If this Jojima guy could speak English, I'd be all for signing him, assuming we were gonna trade Posada.
Arizona is going to pay Posada the approximately $30 million he is owed? Come on.
AZ sounds good and would love to get Conor Jackson to play 1st as a backup to Giambi. We would have to eat alot of contract though.
Why would Arizona give up Conner Jackson for Posada? That is basically like giving up Duncan or Hughes for Thome. Someone who is declining and making a lot of money for the team's best prospect. Would you do that?
AZ sounds good and would love to get Conor Jackson to play 1st as a backup to Giambi. We would have to eat alot of contract though.
The only way Arizona will do it only if Green and his contract is involved.
JavyVazquezIsSick
11-08-05, 07:42 PM
He should of been traded last year...
Don Mack
11-08-05, 08:11 PM
He should of been traded last year...
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A few years back, Pudge Rodriguez was a FA and I was hoping the Yankees would sign him and move Posada. Pudge and the Marlins won the World Series that year.
Now I hear Pudge is tired of playing in Detroit and losing all the time and would like to move on. I'd still prefer Pudge over Posada if only for the reason that he blocks the plate and could throw harder lefthanded than Posada throws. But with all that money due Posada, I think we're stuck with him and his strikeouts and double-play balls UNLESS we pay a portion of his salary. The same is true of Mussina. I believe he made $19 million last year which is ridiculous.
yankees76
11-08-05, 08:14 PM
It's the last year of Moose's contract, and he is still a solid pitcher. Given how volatile our rotation was last year, i can't see any sense in trying to move him, especially when we would have to eat a significant portion of his contract.
Matsui55
11-08-05, 09:01 PM
It's the last year of Moose's contract, and he is still a solid pitcher. Given how volatile our rotation was last year, i can't see any sense in trying to move him, especially when we would have to eat a significant portion of his contract.
Depends where you send him. Cleveland has a lot of $$ to work with, especially if they don't bring back Millwood. If the Yanks took a big contract of their hands (Belliard), they would think hard about it.
The O's might also be willing to take a flier and see if Mazzone can fix what ails Mussina. Granted, I would not be so pleased to see him dealt within the division, but if you got one of those young O's arms for him, fine.
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 09:20 PM
------------------------------------------------------------
A few years back, Pudge Rodriguez was a FA and I was hoping the Yankees would sign him and move Posada. Pudge and the Marlins won the World Series that year.
Now I hear Pudge is tired of playing in Detroit and losing all the time and would like to move on. I'd still prefer Pudge over Posada if only for the reason that he blocks the plate and could throw harder lefthanded than Posada throws. But with all that money due Posada, I think we're stuck with him and his strikeouts and double-play balls UNLESS we pay a portion of his salary. The same is true of Mussina. I believe he made $19 million last year which is ridiculous.
I'll bet you would have loved that .290 OBP, too.
Matsui55
11-08-05, 09:46 PM
I'll bet you would have loved that .290 OBP, too.
Hey, the Yanks won WS titles with Girardi back there. Posada has been nice, but he is at the age where C begin to physically decline, evne though he hasn't logged as many innings as many c his age. I think the past two years have shown that it is still taking its toll on his bat.
The time has come to move Posada, and maybe bring in a defensively minded C who won't embarass himself too much at the plate (Ausmus? Jojima?), and get as much as you can for Posada.
If you get two young arms, and don't have to eat contract, I'd call it a win.
Hey, the Yanks won WS titles with Girardi back there. Posada has been nice, but he is at the age where C begin to physically decline, evne though he hasn't logged as many innings as many c his age. I think the past two years have shown that it is still taking its toll on his bat.
The time has come to move Posada, and maybe bring in a defensively minded C who won't embarass himself too much at the plate (Ausmus? Jojima?), and get as much as you can for Posada.
If you get two young arms, and don't have to eat contract, I'd call it a win.
I'd call it impossible.
I would love it if the Yankees can get out of Posada's contract for next year, it would give the Yankees more payroll flexibility
are we talking about the NY Yankees? what, they're not going to spring for B.J. Ryan because they're carrying Posada?
Posada's durable, a good defensive catcher. what's the benefit of dumping him without a clear upgrade? just have to acknowledge that he's a #7-8 hitter, not a #5-6 hitter as in previous years. Posada has his worse year since 1999 and his OPS is still equal or greater than Molina/Hernandez:
2005:
Posada: 142 games, 19 HR, .262/.352/.430
Molina 2005: 119 games, 15 HR, .295/.336/.446 (career year for him!)
Hernandez: 99 games, 12 HR, .290/.322/.450
Matsui55
11-09-05, 06:23 AM
I'd call it impossible.
I'd call Seattle, LA, and Anaheim first.
Matsui55
11-09-05, 06:29 AM
In fact, we could do a "one stop shopping" hit on Seattle. Offer both Posada and Pavano to Seattle for Reed, Pinero, Meche and a top prospect.
Solves Seattle's offseason goals (C, lefty bat, starting P), while letting the Yanks move some of the expensive secondary pieces off the board for some quality filler. The Yanks get a defensive CF (who can hit a little, but not much more than Bernie did last year), 2 young starters with good stuff (though injured a lot lately) who can be used or dealt and some future help in a prospect.
Works for both teams- give it a shot.
Matsui55
11-09-05, 06:37 AM
are we talking about the NY Yankees? what, they're not going to spring for B.J. Ryan because they're carrying Posada?
Posada's durable, a good defensive catcher. what's the benefit of dumping him without a clear upgrade? just have to acknowledge that he's a #7-8 hitter, not a #5-6 hitter as in previous years. Posada has his worse year since 1999 and his OPS is still equal or greater than Molina/Hernandez:
2005:
Posada: 142 games, 19 HR, .262/.352/.430
Molina 2005: 119 games, 15 HR, .295/.336/.446 (career year for him!)
Hernandez: 99 games, 12 HR, .290/.322/.450
Posada is not the hitter he was in 2000-2003 anymore. He has always K'd a lot (though his walk totals are high), and he swings for the HR too much.
One of the Yanks apparent goals is to get less HR reliant. That means that hitters like Posada are considered part of the problem, rather than the solution. Giambi would normally be part of this group too, but that contract IS untradeable.
I would be just as happy to have the Yanks use an older C who is more interested in ensuring the pitching staff is crusing along that what he does with the bat. I mentioned Ausmus before. Hernandez had that rep when he was catching the "big 3" in Oakland.
Yankees1962
11-09-05, 06:41 AM
Posada is not the hitter he was in 2000-2003 anymore. He has always K'd a lot (though his walk totals are high), and he swings for the HR too much.
One of the Yanks apparent goals is to get less HR reliant. That means that hitters like Posada are considered part of the problem, rather than the solution. Giambi would normally be part of this group too, but that contract IS untradeable.
I would be just as happy to have the Yanks use an older C who is more interested in ensuring the pitching staff is crusing along that what he does with the bat. I mentioned Ausmus before. Hernandez had that rep when he was catching the "big 3" in Oakland.
Posada's contract is untradeable too.
yankeebot
11-09-05, 07:07 AM
Larry Bowa on XM this morning: Posada not being shopped. Yanks looking for a backup catcher that can catch 50-60 games and can get some decent at bats. Take it for what its worth.
are we talking about the NY Yankees? what, they're not going to spring for B.J. Ryan because they're carrying Posada?
Posada's durable, a good defensive catcher. what's the benefit of dumping him without a clear upgrade? just have to acknowledge that he's a #7-8 hitter, not a #5-6 hitter as in previous years. Posada has his worse year since 1999 and his OPS is still equal or greater than Molina/Hernandez:
2005:
Posada: 142 games, 19 HR, .262/.352/.430
Molina 2005: 119 games, 15 HR, .295/.336/.446 (career year for him!)
Hernandez: 99 games, 12 HR, .290/.322/.450
I never said that Posada's contract will prevent them from going after Ryan. I would like to get rid of Posada because he makes too much money and he is declining. I would rather spend some of that 20+ million upgrading other positions. But it looks like the Yankees are stuck with him. No one will want his contract.
NYDCYankee
11-09-05, 07:27 AM
In fact, we could do a "one stop shopping" hit on Seattle. Offer both Posada and Pavano to Seattle for Reed, Pinero, Meche and a top prospect.
Solves Seattle's offseason goals (C, lefty bat, starting P), while letting the Yanks move some of the expensive secondary pieces off the board for some quality filler. The Yanks get a defensive CF (who can hit a little, but not much more than Bernie did last year), 2 young starters with good stuff (though injured a lot lately) who can be used or dealt and some future help in a prospect.
Works for both teams- give it a shot.
I love love love this idea. I think Cash is going to be creative this offseason and try to do stuff like this. These are the types of moves that will leave us in a very good position.
Now let me say something that will run contrary to what I just wrote. But no one has mentioned Piazza in this thread, and I know it is because we all hate the idea of him in pinstripes and his terrible terrible arm. His numbers last year were still as good as any catcher in baseball, and I think he can be had for far cheaper than Molina or Hernandez. Have JoPo and Piazza split time between catcher and DH, and have Piazza catche on days against teams that have less speed. Having them split time will keep them both fresh, and since they are both catchers they won´t be to upset when they have to ride the bench when we want to give sheff or giambi some time to DH.
jnewmark
11-09-05, 07:38 AM
Carrying a declining catcher making around 25 million dollars for the next 2 years is not a good baseball decision no matter what team you are.
If that is true, then what team would want him ?
noneckwilliams
11-09-05, 07:53 AM
are we talking about the NY Yankees? what, they're not going to spring for B.J. Ryan because they're carrying Posada?
Posada's durable, a good defensive catcher. what's the benefit of dumping him without a clear upgrade? just have to acknowledge that he's a #7-8 hitter, not a #5-6 hitter as in previous years. Posada has his worse year since 1999 and his OPS is still equal or greater than Molina/Hernandez:
2005:
Posada: 142 games, 19 HR, .262/.352/.430
Molina 2005: 119 games, 15 HR, .295/.336/.446 (career year for him!)
Hernandez: 99 games, 12 HR, .290/.322/.450
You make good points about Posada although I'm not sure how "good" his defense is. He's still about as productive a catcher as there is (Varitek won the silver sluigger last year and was impotent for the last month of the season). The real problem is that they dealt away Navarro. It would have been ideal to have him as an understudy for a few years.
ring403
11-09-05, 07:57 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/363850p-309841c.html
INDIAN WELLS, Calif. - Tino Martinez won't be back with the Yankees next season and the Bombers are putting out feelers to see if they might be able to move Jorge Posada, too.
The Yankees have been trying to gauge interest in their catcher for nearly a year and a half, but have found few takers because of Posada's bulky contract.
Of course, that contract is the reason the Yanks are interested in moving him. Posada, 34, will make $8 million next season, and if he starts just 81 games at catcher, a clause in his deal guarantees his 2007 option at a massive $12 million salary.
If that is true, then what team would want him ?
Probably no one, thats why I think we are stuck with him for the next 2 years.
Yankees1962
11-09-05, 08:40 AM
I love love love this idea. I think Cash is going to be creative this offseason and try to do stuff like this. These are the types of moves that will leave us in a very good position.
Now let me say something that will run contrary to what I just wrote. But no one has mentioned Piazza in this thread, and I know it is because we all hate the idea of him in pinstripes and his terrible terrible arm. His numbers last year were still as good as any catcher in baseball, and I think he can be had for far cheaper than Molina or Hernandez. Have JoPo and Piazza split time between catcher and DH, and have Piazza catche on days against teams that have less speed. Having them split time will keep them both fresh, and since they are both catchers they won´t be to upset when they have to ride the bench when we want to give sheff or giambi some time to DH.
Please, not him! If some of you are complaining about Posada's defense, I can't wait until I read the comments about Piazza.
Posada is not the hitter he was in 2000-2003 anymore. He has always K'd a lot (though his walk totals are high), and he swings for the HR too much.
One of the Yanks apparent goals is to get less HR reliant. That means that hitters like Posada are considered part of the problem, rather than the solution. Giambi would normally be part of this group too, but that contract IS untradeable.
I would be just as happy to have the Yanks use an older C who is more interested in ensuring the pitching staff is crusing along that what he does with the bat. I mentioned Ausmus before. Hernandez had that rep when he was catching the "big 3" in Oakland.
Giambi and Posada are not part of the problem and I'm not sure Cashman ever said what you are implying. When Cashman talks about 'getting younger and more athletic', he's talking about filling out the current vacancies, formerly filled by below average players, with average, athletic, and younger players, not getting rid of the above average players for ones that are worse. It's these new guys who don't have to be All-Star power hitter types. Just average guys who get on base and play their role. Average is an important word here, because you can't swing the pendulam so far that, with a $200M payroll, these guys are below average.
The problem with the Yankee lineup is not that Giambi (or anyone else) hits homeruns, it's that Tony Womack and Tino and Bernie and Crosby and Sierra get at bats so that there is no one on base when Giambi hits the homerun. As such, 'relying on the homerun' means more like 'relying on the solo homerun' - the short inning in which the strong top of the lineup has to do all of the work before the weak bottom of the lineup comes up. The homerun has not now, nor will it ever be, a bad thing.
I never said that Posada's contract will prevent them from going after Ryan. I would like to get rid of Posada because he makes too much money and he is declining. I would rather spend some of that 20+ million upgrading other positions. But it looks like the Yankees are stuck with him. No one will want his contract.
That would be fine if there was something worth spending the money on. Are there $20M worth of free agents out there this year you would like to sign above and beyond what the Yankees were likely to do with Posada on the roster? In addition, Molina can't catch very well anymore (his legs are shot and he's out of shape, which is why he doesn't catch very many innings) and Hernandez is coming off of surgery. It's not like these guys don't have serious issues/questions, and the risk of creating a hole to maybe fix a hole somewhere else isn't worth it.
If there were a solid, above average catcher on the free agent market who was healthy and durable enough to carry a full catching load, then signing them and exploring a trade for Posada would make sense. Neither of the two guys on the market fit that bill, though.
stephsamps
11-09-05, 09:14 AM
In fact, we could do a "one stop shopping" hit on Seattle. Offer both Posada and Pavano to Seattle for Reed, Pinero, Meche and a top prospect.
Solves Seattle's offseason goals (C, lefty bat, starting P), while letting the Yanks move some of the expensive secondary pieces off the board for some quality filler. The Yanks get a defensive CF (who can hit a little, but not much more than Bernie did last year), 2 young starters with good stuff (though injured a lot lately) who can be used or dealt and some future help in a prospect.
Works for both teams- give it a shot.
Do you think Seattle will take on all of this payroll for a pitcher that sat out most of last season and an aging catcher?
I love Posado but I'm so tired of him not doing the simple things like blocking lthe plate. How many times has an important run crossed the plate cause Jorgie wasn't blocking it?
ICEBERG18
11-09-05, 11:06 AM
"Absolutely no truth to it whatsoever," Cashman said. "No way."
"I've been out here for two days (at the GM meetings) and I haven't mentioned him to anybody," Cashman said of Posada.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1131515154250960.xml&coll=1&thispage=2
Good lord, there's a player option for 2008 if he fulfills the 2007 requirements? What a disaster of a contract.
surge511
11-09-05, 12:06 PM
Good lord, there's a player option for 2008 if he fulfills the 2007 requirements? What a disaster of a contract.
Yea, I saw that, this was a terribly structured contract. Does anyone know how much the player option is on him for 2008? He's gonna be like 37 before he's done.
Mr. Mxylsplk
11-09-05, 12:20 PM
Yea, I saw that, this was a terribly structured contract. Does anyone know how much the player option is on him for 2008? He's gonna be like 37 before he's done.
It's a $4M buyout. ($12M option, but obviously the team would buy him out).
Agreed. Didnt Jorge come up as an infielder rather than a cathcer. I am not sure what position but I remember reading about it somewhere.
I think he was originally a 2B.
27IsNext
11-09-05, 03:20 PM
Posada isn't going anywhere. I'm glad to see the front office is looking for a backup catcher with decent defense, who can hit.
George Steinbrenner
11-09-05, 03:33 PM
I dont like it and I dont buy it. We can sign another catcher like Molina and put Posada as the part time catcher and part dime DH. He can share DH with guys like Giambi and Sheffield who are gonna need days off. But Posada is a good switch hitting catcher who had a subpar season (for him) last year. But he's still one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, a leader on this team, and very expensive. Most likely this rumor is BS and we head into next season with him on the roster.
27IsNext
11-09-05, 03:37 PM
I dont like it and I dont buy it. We can sign another catcher like Molina and put Posada as the part time catcher and part dime DH. He can share DH with guys like Giambi and Sheffield who are gonna need days off. But Posada is a good switch hitting catcher who had a subpar season (for him) last year. But he's still one of the best hitting catchers in baseball, a leader on this team, and very expensive. Most likely this rumor is BS and we head into next season with him on the roster.
Cashman's already denied the rumor. I'd shop Posada only if there was a viable replacement out there, free agent-wise. And there isn't. Posada isn't going anywhere.
However, the Yankees DO need to have a plan in place by the end of 2007 to replace Jorge when his contract expires. This is exactly why trading Navarro was so stupid.
Too bad there really isn't a baseball version of Isiah Thomas. Then we could trade our old players for young talent. Oh wait, the closest to this is the Yankees
George Steinbrenner
11-09-05, 04:18 PM
Cashman's already denied the rumor. I'd shop Posada only if there was a viable replacement out there, free agent-wise. And there isn't. Posada isn't going anywhere.
However, the Yankees DO need to have a plan in place by the end of 2007 to replace Jorge when his contract expires. This is exactly why trading Navarro was so stupid.
I dont think Navarro was THAT good, he will turn out an average hitter. Posada can be replaced later.
27IsNext
11-09-05, 04:19 PM
Navarro still gets on base at a reasonable rate. He was more than adequit, until we could find someone better.
Hopefully we can start prepping for the future problem at catcher now, instead of waiting until it gets completely out of hand like they did with the centerfield situation.
Yanks Lifer
11-09-05, 05:12 PM
I think he was originally a 2B.
Yes, he was originally a 2B in the minors.
ring403
12-04-05, 11:34 AM
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/SPORTS01/512040367/1108
Cashman is open to the idea of trading Jorge Posada and signing a less expensive replacement, say Bengie Molina. By the end of the four-day meetings, other possibilities could arise.
"When people strike out on plan A, B, C and D, they go into overdrive for other remaining opportunities," Cashman said. "Teams are more willing to do things in mid-December and January that they may not have considered doing in November."
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051204/SPORTS01/512040367/1108
With all the money that Posada is due and all the money that Molina will ask for, I think we are just better off keeping Posada. Hopefully Posada will bounce back next year.
Snatch Catch
12-04-05, 11:39 AM
Minaya's offer to Molina was 3/24. That's insane.
NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 11:39 AM
With all the money that Posada is due and all the money that Molina will ask for, I think we are just better off keeping Posada. Hopefully Posada will bounce back next year.
I'm sorry I just don't see Posada bouncing back at all.
I dont think Navarro was THAT good, he will turn out an average hitter. Posada can be replaced later.
Navarro's best quality was his plate discipline. But best of all he was young, cheap, and had some talent. He would have been a perfect backup this year.
I'm sorry I just don't see Posada bouncing back at all.
We are most likely stuck with him. I really can't see any team taking him unless we pay most of this year's and next year's salary.
goin for 27
12-04-05, 11:49 AM
Cashman has already thrown cold water on this, but I see troubles with it anyway.
1) Moving Posada to 1B is a concern. Giambi clearly does not hit as well when he is not playing the field. Can't explain it, but it happens to various players, and I want Giambi at 1B a ton, if that is what will maximize his production.
2) Forces Sheffield to play RF every day. I would like to see him DH quite a bit, without removing Giambi from the lineup.
3) Posada is declining sharply at the plate. He would be fresher for sure at 1B, but how much will that translate? If we get a defensive catcher, that is two bats in the lineup that are not great.
Also, don't want to start a whole thread on this, because I have NO BASIS for saying so, but I have a strange feeling that Sheffield will be moved this offseason. If so, we really could not afford a defensive catcher/Posada in the same linuep.
swityak11
12-04-05, 11:59 AM
I don't see any team willing to take on Posada's contract with that vesting option for 2007 and having to eat $10-15 million of it in order to move him doesn't make much sense.
TEPLimey
12-04-05, 12:07 PM
I don't see any team willing to take on Posada's contract with that vesting option for 2007 and having to eat $10-15 million of it in order to move him doesn't make much sense.
You're right. No team will touch his contract with a ten meter cattle prod.
Sierra Mist
12-04-05, 05:12 PM
I'll believe this when I see it. I figured we would be stuck with Posada till 2007.
Yankee Clipper
12-04-05, 05:23 PM
He still gets on base a ton for a catcher and actually had one of his best defensive years as a catcher. If we were able to trade him for a young catcher and BP help, then sign Hernandez, then maybe I'd be for it, but Molina is not the guy we should get. I'm comfortable with Jorge being our catcher for the next 2 years.
38Special
12-04-05, 05:33 PM
Ugh, dont get Molina he's nowhere in Posada's league
I Love Wang
12-04-05, 05:49 PM
Ugh, dont get Molina he's nowhere in Posada's league
Given Molina's history, physical condition, and career year coming in his contract season, I'm disinclined to believe that he won't revert to his mediocre career norms, or worse. I have no interest in him at his likely cost.
YankeePride1967
12-04-05, 05:51 PM
Given Molina's history, physical condition, and career year coming in his contract season, I'm disinclined to believe that he won't revert to his mediocre career norms, or worse. I have no interest in him at his likely cost.
If the Mets rumored offer of 3/24 is true, then the Mets are crazy.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-04-05, 06:12 PM
apparently the mets just picked up LoDuca.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-04-05, 06:14 PM
Also I believe there are 2 option years in Posada's contract based on games cought. At the money he gets 3 years would be absoloutly painful to watch.
Yankeeah
12-04-05, 06:26 PM
If the Mets rumored offer of 3/24 is true, then the Mets are crazy.
Even if the Mets rumored off of 3/24 isn't true, the Mets are crazy.
NewEraYanks2527
12-04-05, 06:32 PM
Even if the Mets rumored off of 3/24 isn't true, the Mets are crazy.
Yes they are, now they just traded MORE prospects for Paul Lo Duca, following the road the Yankees went down. I dont understand it, they can just sign a catcher why trade for Lo Duca?
I don't really see Posada as a viable option to play 1B. As sad as it is, I'd rather see Giambi start at 1B and Posada DH.
I think the Yankees should seriously look into trading posada...what teams might potentially be in the market for a catcher?
I bet Jorge would do pretty well if he got to DH the bulk of his games. Giambi always hits better when he plays the field.
DontHateOnNumber2
12-04-05, 11:56 PM
I just realized that if Posada gets dealt then I'll have to get rid of my huge Nike ad featuring Posada. Crud.
ryanthe13th
12-05-05, 12:06 AM
If the Yankees don't want Posada, what makes you think anyone else would? We'd have to eat a large portion of his contract in order to move him. For that, I'd rather just keep him on the team to let him play out his deal.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 01:58 AM
I've heard a bunch of times that the deal is two options, meaning if he stayed here and was the starting catcher he'd be around through 08. I'm hoping someone here can tell me I'm wrong. We'd have to throw in some money, but he's a money ball type hitter, and Kendal just had a pretty bad year. Just a thought.
yankeetke
12-05-05, 03:43 AM
If I remeber correctly he needs something like 50-60 games as catcher to garuntee his contract for next year only. So in other words as long as he stays healthy he will be here until 2008 not through 2008.
PinstripeDynasty
12-05-05, 08:11 AM
Prediction: Posada has a rough start and Cashman releases him just prior to him making his option.
I dont want to be Mr hindsight but I sure wish we didnt trade navarro.
So two of the catchers we're thinking about is Kenji Jojina and Bengie Molina??? How about Vlenjy Vovina from Russia or Krengee Kozina from Romania? I heard they're pretty good too. :)
nyyanksfan20
12-05-05, 10:14 AM
Now that the Mets traded for LoDuca, anybody think we should try to get either Molina or Hernandez? There doesn't seem to be a big market for either other than the Mets, who now have their catcher. We don't have to trade Posada he could be a backup 1b and catcher still playing nearly everyday. And I guess just dump Stinnent or keep him and have 3 catchers like the Angels do.
NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 10:15 AM
Now that the Mets traded for LoDuca, anybody think we should try to get either Molina or Hernandez? There doesn't seem to be a big market for either other than the Mets, who now have their catcher. We don't have to trade Posada he could be a backup 1b and catcher still playing nearly everyday. And I guess just dump Stinnent or keep him and have 3 catchers like the Angels do.
Hell I'd throw an offer out to both of them if they take it great if not see ya, if we got one we could make sure they catch more and Posada DHs and then he wont get that option that he can obtain for catching however many games it is.
IronCaballo4
12-05-05, 10:18 AM
Hell I'd throw an offer out to both of them if they take it great if not see ya, if we got one we could make sure they catch more and Posada DHs and then he wont get that option that he can obtain for catching however many games it is.
Agreed: I think if we can sign, say, Hernandez, we can move Posada to DH...I wouldn't mind that at all
NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 10:41 AM
Agreed: I think if we can sign, say, Hernandez, we can move Posada to DH...I wouldn't mind that at all
And we could rotate Posada to Catcher, Hernandez a day off, Sheff in DH and hopefully have a decent corner outfielder to rotate with. It really would keep everyone fresh. Giambi will see some days at DH too but he hits better while he is in the field so I would rather see him play more in the field, he is not the worst defensive first basemen out there and he can always be subed late in the game for a defensive first basemen (e.g. Travis Lee)
CelerinoSanchez
12-05-05, 11:49 AM
Get real. Nobody's gonna take one of the "responsible" contracts we gave out which didn't set the market.
Dr. Gonzo
12-05-05, 11:52 AM
maybe nomar can catch
Casey37
12-05-05, 11:57 AM
maybe nomar can catch
Or play cf?
ryanthe13th
12-05-05, 12:03 PM
The Yankees lost between $50 million and $85 million for the 2005 season, according to a Daily News report.
In addition to their $200 million+ payroll, the Yankees poured almost $110 million into revenue sharing and luxury tax last season. Also, the Yankees might have to share additional revenue with poorer clubs if a consultant hired by MLB decides they undervalued their television rights. This is why the Yankees have yet to look like big players on the free-agent market.
From Rotoworld.com
The Yankees lost between $50 million and $85 million for the 2005 season, according to a Daily News report.
In addition to their $200 million+ payroll, the Yankees poured almost $110 million into revenue sharing and luxury tax last season. Also, the Yankees might have to share additional revenue with poorer clubs if a consultant hired by MLB decides they undervalued their television rights. This is why the Yankees have yet to look like big players on the free-agent market.
From Rotoworld.com
IF the Yankees decided to slash payroll and do a Marlins type fire sale, Budlite would be the firs one to squeal like a stuck pig because the welfare payments to the mismanaged clubswould dry up
JeterRodriguezSheff
12-05-05, 01:20 PM
so is there any chance posada is gone?
Shadowkan
12-05-05, 01:25 PM
I doubt the Yanks would be able to trade Posada w/o picking up a good portion of his salary. I'm not even sure what kind of value he has right now if the Yanks don't pick up some of the money. Trading Posada leaves one big hole at catcher and I DO NOT want to see Molina behind the plate (who possibly is the slowest runner I have ever seen...maybe besides Cecil Fielder).
I see Posada behind the plate until his contract runs out.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 01:25 PM
Prediction: Posada has a rough start and Cashman releases him just prior to him making his option.
I'm not sure, but I think that would be considered tampering. The players assossiation would make sure he got the money.
BillBuckner
12-05-05, 01:31 PM
Hey don't we have that young Navarro guy?... oh yea, thats right, we traded him. :mad:
I Love Wang
12-05-05, 01:34 PM
I'm not sure, but I think that would be considered tampering. The players assossiation would make sure he got the money.
That isn't tampering.
That isn't tampering.
It is, however, a good way to drive away future players who might otherwise be interested in coming to the Yankees.
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-05-05, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure, but I think that would be considered tampering. The players assossiation would make sure he got the money.
Nope, it's not tampering, but the player's association would file a grievance on Posada's behalf and Posada would probably get more money out of them. This has happened before, but not in as high profile a case as Posada, the Devil Rays did it with Gerald Williams years ago and he ended up signing with the Yankees. The Yankees wouldn't just dump him, they'd suck it up and keep him around and try to trade him and eat alot of the money.
TEPLimey
12-05-05, 02:17 PM
For all the griping about Navarro, my understnading is that he isn't exactly tearing it up in the minors. No sense in complaining about a guy that isn't going to crack the Yankees roster anyway. Besides, without trading Navarro, we don't get RJ and we don't make the playoffs.
Dont get me wrong... I agree that we need young catcher to replace Posada, though.
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 02:27 PM
Ugh, dont get Molina he's nowhere in Posada's league
Are you kidding?
Posada has been declining at a pretty steady rate the past couple of seasons. He's always been the Yankees worst baserunner, maybe the worst in all of baseball. His defensive skills topped out at average and without his power, he's a black hole in the lineup. This is yet another case of a lot of people still thinking that he's the same player he was in the glory years. He's not, it's time to let go and move on before we end up with another Yankee embarrassing himself much to the joy of the rest of baseball.
For all the griping about Navarro, my understnading is that he isn't exactly tearing it up in the minors. No sense in complaining about a guy that isn't going to crack the Yankees roster anyway. Besides, without trading Navarro, we don't get RJ and we don't make the playoffs.
Dont get me wrong... I agree that we need young catcher to replace Posada, though.
It's more symbolic than that. The Navarro deal embodies the lack of planning in regard to replacements that the Yankees have had in the last few years. They knew they would need a catcher and have done nothing to address it.
Just look at how they addressed the CF issue these past few years. They hid their heads in the sand.
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 02:42 PM
It's more symbolic than that. The Navarro deal embodies the lack of planning in regard to replacements that the Yankees have had in the last few years. They knew they would need a catcher and have done nothing to address it.
Just look at how they addressed the CF issue these past few years. They hid their heads in the sand.
Good point. And now we're expected to believe that they blew the chance to sign Beltran at a "discounted rate" because they knew that they were going to take a financial loss last season. OK.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 03:18 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/363838p-309841c.html
This is a story from the daily news that says Posada has an 08 player option if his 07 option kicks in.
terminator
12-05-05, 03:49 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/363838p-309841c.html
This is a story from the daily news that says Posada has an 08 player option if his 07 option kicks in.
That is correct. A good place to check contracts:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_03_mlbcontracts_archive.html
38Special
12-05-05, 03:51 PM
Are you kidding?
Posada has been declining at a pretty steady rate the past couple of seasons. He's always been the Yankees worst baserunner, maybe the worst in all of baseball. His defensive skills topped out at average and without his power, he's a black hole in the lineup. This is yet another case of a lot of people still thinking that he's the same player he was in the glory years. He's not, it's time to let go and move on before we end up with another Yankee embarrassing himself much to the joy of the rest of baseball.
No im not kidding. Molina is worse than Posada in Jorge's worst year. Molina has no plate discipline, little pop, highly overrated defensive skills, and is only 2 years younger than Jorge. Give it a rest
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 03:57 PM
No im not kidding. Molina is worse than Posada in Jorge's worst year. Molina has no plate discipline, little pop, highly overrated defensive skills, and is only 2 years younger than Jorge. Give it a rest
It must have been another player that tore the Yankee pitching staff a new one during the ALDS this season. His defensive skills are overrated? Yeah.
38Special
12-05-05, 04:01 PM
It must have been another player that tore the Yankee pitching staff a new one during the ALDS this season. His defensive skills are overrated? Yeah.
If we rated players based on their contributions in 5 or 7 game series', we would be the laughing stock of the baseball community
...
http://tinypic.com/i6ks2a.jpg
lol
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 04:05 PM
Yeah, because the Mets are having a horrible offseason, right? Don't worry about Beltran, he will bounce back and we will all be sorry that he wasn't signed last offseason.
38Special
12-05-05, 04:09 PM
Somebody help me out here before i put my head through the screen
BronxBaumer
12-05-05, 04:12 PM
Molina is overrated...and he's injury prone as well. Posada has been better than Molina, even in his worst years up to now...
MTYankee23
12-05-05, 04:12 PM
Yeah, because the Mets are having a horrible offseason, right? Don't worry about Beltran, he will bounce back and we will all be sorry that he wasn't signed last offseason.
The Mets have depleted their farm system while bidding against themselves for Marlins players, but otherwise I think their offseason has gone swimmingly.
I'll wait for Beltran to prove he's capable of putting up 10+ million a year numbers in something other than his contract year.
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 04:24 PM
Yep and they are going to win the NL East because of all of the bad moves they have made. Where do you get that they have been bidding against themselves for these players? Last I heard, there were more than a couple of teams looking at Delgado and LoDuca. Don't hate the player, hate the game that the Yankees invented!
38Special
12-05-05, 04:25 PM
Yep and they are going to win the NL East because of all of the bad moves they have made. Where do you get that they have been bidding against themselves for these players? Last I heard, there were more than a couple of teams looking at Delgado and LoDuca. Don't hate the player, hate the game that the Yankees invented!
Why is this turning into another lol MeTs Fuken rULE thread?
MTYankee23
12-05-05, 04:27 PM
Yep and they are going to win the NL East because of all of the bad moves they have made. Where do you get that they have been bidding against themselves for these players? Last I heard, there were more than a couple of teams looking at Delgado and LoDuca. Don't hate the player, hate the game that the Yankees invented!
I think it was Buster Olney's column (and it was rather lengthy) where he discussed that the Mets in fact had bid against themselves for Delgado. Everyone in baseball knew the Marlins were dumping salary (as evidenced by the Beckett trade) so the Mets took on Delgado's huge contract and gave up a top prospect. They apparently did the same in the LoDuca deal.
I wouldn't consider the Mets a shoo in to win the NL East at this point, nevermind a World Series. Which as we've seen with the Yankees, is the goal and throwing money at players is not the best way to get there.
aeromac76
12-05-05, 04:33 PM
I'd have to take Posada over Molina. Molina has a great arm, but Posada does not have an awful one, he is not bad with the throwing out of runners. I do not think he is the best hitting catcher we have seen, but a switch hitting catcher with a little pop and a high OBP, and who is better than average defensively, they do not grow on trees. The guy I would want is Ramon Hernandez, if we could get him to replace Jorge, I would do it. But Molina had a good postseason and everyone is annointing him the second coming of Ivan Rodriguez. Bucky Dent was Babe Ruth in the 78 postseason, does not mean you trade him for the Babe. Molina runs worse than any potser on this board, does not show more patience than Jorge, and I think Jorge is is way better shape. Posada will be overpaid because he is not worth his contract, but Posada is still a better player than Molina.
PerfectCone
12-05-05, 04:35 PM
Why is this turning into another lol MeTs Fuken rULE thread?
Because you insinuated that they are the laughing stock of baseball because they gave Beltran 100 million dollars.
I Love Wang
12-05-05, 04:49 PM
For all the griping about Navarro, my understnading is that he isn't exactly tearing it up in the minors. No sense in complaining about a guy that isn't going to crack the Yankees roster anyway. Besides, without trading Navarro, we don't get RJ and we don't make the playoffs.
Dont get me wrong... I agree that we need young catcher to replace Posada, though.
Navarro's OBP in the majors this year was .354. I'd take that, especially given the fact that he's a lot better defensively than Posada, and, for that matter, would allow us to prevent Po's option from vesting.
NewEraYanks2527
12-05-05, 04:55 PM
Because you insinuated that they are the laughing stock of baseball because they gave Beltran 100 million dollars.
They are the laughing stock of baseball but thats just one of the reasons. ;)
wileedog
12-05-05, 04:55 PM
IF the Yankees decided to slash payroll and do a Marlins type fire sale, Budlite would be the firs one to squeal like a stuck pig because the welfare payments to the mismanaged clubswould dry up
It would almost be worth a couple of losing seasons to watch that happen.
38Special
12-05-05, 05:50 PM
Because you insinuated that they are the laughing stock of baseball because they gave Beltran 100 million dollars.
Because you insinuated that we should sign Molina
wah wah wah
It's still true :)
Matsui55
12-05-05, 06:33 PM
Because you insinuated that they are the laughing stock of baseball because they gave Beltran 100 million dollars.
I remember being on a NY Giants fan website several years ago when Danny Boy in Washington went on a big shopping spree, and brought in every expensive big name player he could. What I remember most about that off-season was the way Redskins fans would show up on the site to tell everyone how the Redskins "had raised the bar" and loudly critcize anyone who disagreed.
Funny how the Skins were not even a .500 team that year. Funny how that site never heard from those Redkins fans again. Funny how likely history is to repeat itself here.
Perhaps Posada for Pierre.
One JP for another.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 06:44 PM
Perhaps Posada for Pierre.
One JP for another.
We would have to eat Jorge's entire salary to make that happen. Thats alot of money. I'm telling you he's a Beane Boy. Trade him to Oakland for Kendal, make the salaries a wash, maybe throw in some money and Beane will DH/1B him and eliminate the options.
We would have to eat Jorge's entire salary to make that happen. Thats alot of money. I'm telling you he's a Beane Boy. Trade him to Oakland for Kendal, make the salaries a wash, maybe throw in some money and Beane will DH/1B him and eliminate the options.
Um, yeah, but.... It's JP for JP. See.
BennyTheJetRodriguez
12-05-05, 06:52 PM
oh my bad, i didn't notice since neither first name sounds like a J....i was wrong the fish will deff do it.
oh my bad, i didn't notice since neither first name sounds like a J....i was wrong the fish will deff do it.
Exactly. Now you get it. My work here is done.
surge511
12-05-05, 07:37 PM
Based on many things, Posada isn't going anywhere. He will be the starting catcher for at least the next 2 years.
Quangormo
12-06-05, 11:26 AM
Bad idea. Where are we going to get a better catcher?
Quangormo
12-06-05, 11:31 AM
Jorge being shopped, Bernie being ignored to the point that he may not be back -- whre are the Yankees and who are these guys wearing their uniforms?
Ghost of Dan Pasqua
12-06-05, 11:37 AM
Jorge being shopped, Bernie being ignored to the point that he may not be back -- whre are the Yankees and who are these guys wearing their uniforms?
They got old, it happens. Watch the dvds if you want to remember that team, it's gone now.
Dooley Womack
12-06-05, 11:50 AM
If we rated players based on their contributions in 5 or 7 game series', we would be the laughing stock of the baseball community
...
http://tinypic.com/i6ks2a.jpg
lol
WTF. Omar signed Ricky Ricardo?
Quangormo
12-06-05, 12:07 PM
They got old, it happens. Watch the dvds if you want to remember that team, it's gone now.
They're still better than anyone we can get to replace them. Do you realize who the Yankees' reserve OFs would be if they had to start the season today? Melky Cabrera and Kevin Reese. Bernie does mroe for you than these guys. And the catchers behind Jorge are Kelly Stinnett, Wil Nieves, and David Parrish.
Who can they get who will do as good a job as Bernie and Jorge will do for us? Nobody -- and these guys are YANKEES.
PerfectCone
12-06-05, 12:49 PM
The Three Headed Monster is in the hizzzouse!!!
38Special
12-06-05, 01:39 PM
PerfectCone to the rescue!
jackson_23
12-06-05, 07:20 PM
They're still better than anyone we can get to replace them. Do you realize who the Yankees' reserve OFs would be if they had to start the season today? Melky Cabrera and Kevin Reese. Bernie does mroe for you than these guys. And the catchers behind Jorge are Kelly Stinnett, Wil Nieves, and David Parrish.
Who can they get who will do as good a job as Bernie and Jorge will do for us? Nobody -- and these guys are YANKEES.
catcher-hernandez, bernie is still a good hitter jsut too slow to be a fulltime in CF
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