View Full Version : This is a long way off, but...(Pettitte and Zito are FAs next season -mod)
surge511
11-07-05, 02:10 PM
Pettitte and Zito are free agents next offseason. One or both of those guys would be great for our rotation. If you think about it, every guy on the current staff has issues, with Randy and Moose old and with nagging injuries, Pavano and Wright coming off horrible, injured years, and questions with whether Chacon and Wang can have repeat perfomances. If things go bad with the staff again this year, we may be in the market for some big pitching upgrades.
How awesome would it be to bring Pettitte back where he belongs, even though it goes against our getting younger and cheaper philosophy? Maybe we could make an exception. :D
I know this a long way off, and a lot of things will happen before we worry about next offseason, but just the possibility of bringing Pettitte back intrigued me.
specialk
11-07-05, 02:16 PM
Andy had his chance to go down in history as the all time winningist Yankee pitcher, but decided he needed to go to Houston, what makes you think he will want to return to the Bronx. Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us? We need to develope the farm so we can bring up more guys like Wang.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 02:20 PM
The Yanks will want to put the Moose money ($19 mil they are paying him this year) into either Mulder or Zito, who are both free agents next offseason. I'd take either one of those with open arms, but Zito is far less injury prone than Mulder
surge511
11-07-05, 02:20 PM
Andy had his chance to go down in history as the all time winningist Yankee pitcher, but decided he needed to go to Houston, what makes you think he will want to return to the Bronx. Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us? We need to develope the farm so we can bring up more guys like Wang.
Andy, if he wants to come back, would be great. I am not saying he would come, but he is definitely worth pursuing.
Zito is not yet 30, and had a good year last year, especially in the second half. We have all seen what he can do when he is on. I would absolutely consider Zito for the rotation.
I am a big fan of Wang and Chacon because of their age, attitude, and ability. But I must remain cautiously optimistic because they only pitched for about half a year. Our farm system is developing, but hold off on worshiping Wang just yet. Trust me, I think they will repeat their 2k5 performances, but let's see it in 2k6.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 02:28 PM
Andy had his chance to go down in history as the all time winningist Yankee pitcher, but decided he needed to go to Houston, what makes you think he will want to return to the Bronx. Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us? We need to develope the farm so we can bring up more guys like Wang.
Andy had his chance and walked away from it. This is a long way off so who are the CF options next year ;)
The Yanks will want to put the Moose money ($19 mil they are paying him this year) into either Mulder or Zito, who are both free agents next offseason. I'd take either one of those with open arms, but Zito is far less injury prone than Mulder
You'd pay Zito or Mulder 19 mil?
:roflmao:
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 02:32 PM
You'd pay Zito or Mulder 19 mil?
:roflmao:
No way no chance...we will have Moose coming off the books, therefore we can have the cash to spend on a new lefty SP...Mulder/Zito are not worth more than 11-12 mil a year
No way no chance...we will have Moose coming off the books, therefore we can have the cash to spend on a new lefty SP...Mulder/Zito are not worth more than 11-12 mil a year
Oh ok, sorry I misunderstood your post.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 02:35 PM
You'd pay Zito or Mulder 19 mil?
:roflmao:
I dont think you'll see any new contracts for anybody at 19 mil a year. I think those days are gone. Thank god.
I'd like to see how the Win Method applies to Pettitte. He could be a possibility.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 02:41 PM
I dont think you'll see any new contracts for anybody at 19 mil a year. I think those days are gone. Thank god.
Maybe King Felix Hernandez can fetch that type of cash if he lives up to his hype
rhodehead
11-07-05, 02:42 PM
Andy had his chance to go down in history as the all time winningist Yankee pitcher, but decided he needed to go to Houston, what makes you think he will want to return to the Bronx. Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us? We need to develope the farm so we can bring up more guys like Wang.
While I agree with you about Pettite, I have to say your assessment of Zito is a tad off. For one, he will be 28 during next season. Injured? Where did you pull that out of? Since 2001 he has made 35 starts in every season except 2004 (when he made 34). Zito would actually be a great example of durability in my opinion. And while we will not see his CY Young year repeated, he has been very solid to outstanding throughout his career.
I would be suprised Beane just lets him walk, he will likely be signed long-term or dealt...Besides, who would want a durable, former Cy Young winning, lefty starter who will still be on the right side of 30 during the 2007 season anyway?
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 02:42 PM
Maybe King Felix Hernandez can fetch that type of cash if he lives up to his hype I doubt it though, Johan didn't even get that kind of money when he signed his contract extension. 19 mil is alot even in baseball terms.
Dr. Gonzo
11-07-05, 02:42 PM
Andy is not coming back, he fawns over Houston.
I Love Wang
11-07-05, 02:43 PM
Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us?
Has there ever been a more wrong post? Zito is 27, that's "aging?" And, to my knowledge, he has never been hurt. Starting with his first full season in the majors, 2001, he has started 35, 35, 35, 34, and 35 games. In those seasons, he threw 214, 229, 232, 213, and 228 innings. He appears to be one of the most durable pitchers in all of baseball. Are you sure he's the guy you're thinking of?
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 02:47 PM
I doubt it though, Johan didn't even get that kind of money when he signed his contract extension. 19 mil is alot even in baseball terms.
Yeah its very doubtful but understand at the same time that this will be in 5-6 yrs from now...who knows what the economy of baseball would be at that point
and Johan settled with the Twins prior to his free agency, who knows what he would have signed for on the open market
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 02:49 PM
Has there ever been a more wrong post? Zito is 27, that's "aging?" And, to my knowledge, he has never been hurt. Starting with his first full season in the majors, 2001, he has started 35, 35, 35, 34, and 35 games. In those seasons, he threw 214, 229, 232, 213, and 228 innings. He appears to be one of the most durable pitchers in all of baseball. Are you sure he's the guy you're thinking of?
I think he meant that guy Randy Johnson..
27IsNext
11-07-05, 02:50 PM
If Zito could be acquired at a reasonable price, I wouldn't be opposed to signing him.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 02:50 PM
Yeah its very doubtful but understand at the same time that this will be in 5-6 yrs from now...who knows what the economy of baseball would be at that point
and Johan settled with the Twins prior to his free agency, who knows what he would have signed for on the open market
True but baseball is on a down swing from huge contracts that pay that kind of money. It is the economy of things pluse if Hernandez is going to be as good as he is hyped up to be then Seattle would be pretty foolish to even let him get to Free Agency.
Seamonk
11-07-05, 03:23 PM
I think they burned their bridge with Andy, and Zito would be more likely to land in the other New York dugout.
AMYanks
11-07-05, 03:27 PM
If Zito could be acquired at a reasonable price, I wouldn't be opposed to signing him.
Ditto. I wouldn't be against giving him a Pavano-like contract, just because his upside is huge. And if he struggles, he's still a young left-handed pitcher, so there would be a market for him.
CptCrunch
11-07-05, 03:29 PM
I'd like to see how the Win Method applies to Pettitte. He could be a possibility.
IIRC, the Win Method ranks Pettitte as the second best player in the game.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 03:36 PM
IIRC, the Win Method ranks Pettitte as the second best player in the game.
Out of curiousity who is first by the Win Method?
Dr. Gonzo
11-07-05, 03:40 PM
True but baseball is on a down swing from huge contracts that pay that kind of money. It is the economy of things pluse if Hernandez is going to be as good as he is hyped up to be then Seattle would be pretty foolish to even let him get to Free Agency.
You may see a bunch this year. One gm was quoted as saying that bad contracts are cyclical. A bunch are given out, so people curtail their spending, then they come off the books and dumb contracts are handed out again. This may be especially so in such a bad market and teams with money who want to show their fans they are trying.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 03:42 PM
You may see a bunch this year. One gm was quoted as saying that bad contracts are cyclical. A bunch are given out, so people curtail their spending, then they come off the books and dumb contracts are handed out again. This may be especially so in such a bad market and teams with money who want to show their fans they are trying.
Maybe but other than Giles and Damon I dont see too many really high dollar contracts. Burnett is not going to get a tremendous amount of money by baseball standards unless of course the Mets decide to drive up the market like they did last year, seriously I wish they Mets would just stay away from Baseball and leave it to people who have a clue what they are doing.
rightfielder21
11-07-05, 04:13 PM
Out of curiousity who is first by the Win Method?
Jeter...
Seamonk
11-07-05, 04:23 PM
Maybe but other than Giles and Damon I dont see too many really high dollar contracts. Burnett is not going to get a tremendous amount of money by baseball standards unless of course the Mets decide to drive up the market like they did last year, seriously I wish they Mets would just stay away from Baseball and leave it to people who have a clue what they are doing.
Like the guy who signed Pavano and Wright and gave Randy Johnson an extension?
Evil Empire
11-07-05, 04:26 PM
Andy left NY to be closer to home. He's not gonna come back.
Zito's a bit too much of a risk IMO. He's on and off IIRC.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 04:26 PM
Like the guy who signed Pavano and Wright and gave Randy Johnson an extension?
Randy Johnson won 17 games, led the team in strikeouts, ERA and wins. The Mets overpaid for Kris Benson driving average pitchers prices(Lieber and Wright) through the roof. The Mets ruined the market for everyone else. Why not give Johnson an extension, he was the most productive Yankee pitcher this past year and I wouldn't be suprised if he is the most productive pitcher of this next year.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 04:30 PM
Randy Johnson won 17 games, led the team in strikeouts, ERA and wins. The Mets overpaid for Kris Benson driving average pitchers prices(Leiter and Wright) through the roof. The Mets ruined the market for everyone else. Why not give Johnson an extension, he was the most productive Yankee pitcher this past year and I wouldn't be suprised if he is the most productive pitcher of this next year.
The day the Yankees clinched the division in Fenway, RJ told Cashman now that he knows what its like to play in NY he will win 25 games next season. Cashman said that RJ said that comemnt without even a hint of laughter....we shall see
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 04:31 PM
The day the Yankees clinched the division in Fenway, RJ told Cashman now that he knows what its like to play in NY he will win 25 games next season. Cashman said that RJ said that comemnt without even a hint of laughter....we shall see
Did he really say that?
Seamonk
11-07-05, 04:32 PM
We didn't bring him here to be productive against Tampa Bay.
We brought him here for the post season.
How'd that work out?
And Omar drove up the price of Leiter and Wright so much that he didn't think they were worth signing.
Others should have concurred...
DeputyFife
11-07-05, 04:32 PM
The day the Yankees clinched the division in Fenway, RJ told Cashman now that he knows what its like to play in NY he will win 25 games next season. Cashman said that RJ said that comemnt without even a hint of laughter....we shall see
It would have been nice for him to start in Game 3 of the ALDS.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 04:33 PM
Ditto. I wouldn't be against giving him a Pavano-like contract, just because his upside is huge. And if he struggles, he's still a young left-handed pitcher, so there would be a market for him.
A Pavano-type contract is too much in terms of money. I'd go for 4 years/$7-8 million per.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 04:35 PM
We didn't bring him here to be productive against Tampa Bay.
We brought him here for the post season.
How'd that work out?
And Omar drove up the price of Leiter and Wright so much that he didn't think they were worth signing.
Others should have concurred...
Randy won the division for us, he BEAT BOSTON over and over and over again this year, everyone is on this team to win in October, but with RJ there is no October. Omar drove up the price and set the bar, once someone Benson's calibur gets that kind of money then guys who know they are better will hold out for more money. Face it, the Mets screwed things up and though I dont agree with the Wright signing at all the price still went up because of the Mets. What does Leiter have to do with anything the Yankees didnt sign him in the offseason they claimed him later on, or do you mean Lieber, if you do you should really say that or get your facts straight.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 04:35 PM
Did he really say that?
Yeah Michael Kay reported it from the clubhouse during the celebration
HouseThatRingsBuild
11-07-05, 04:36 PM
You'd pay Zito or Mulder 19 mil?
:roflmao:
No such thing anymore.
Seamonk
11-07-05, 04:44 PM
Randy won the division for us, he BEAT BOSTON over and over and over again this year, everyone is on this team to win in October, but with RJ there is no October. Omar drove up the price and set the bar, once someone Benson's calibur gets that kind of money then guys who know they are better will hold out for more money. Face it, the Mets screwed things up and though I dont agree with the Wright signing at all the price still went up because of the Mets. What does Leiter have to do with anything the Yankees didnt sign him in the offseason they claimed him later on, or do you mean Lieber, if you do you should really say that or get your facts straight.
I didn't bring up Leiter. Another poster did.
And don't you find it slightly ironic that Yankee fans are complaining about another team driving up the market? Welcome to everyone else's world.
NewEraYanks2527
11-07-05, 04:54 PM
I didn't bring up Leiter. Another poster did.
And don't you find it slightly ironic that Yankee fans are complaining about another team driving up the market? Welcome to everyone else's world.
The Leiter thing was my fault, I mistyped and meant to say Lieber, my mistake. But no I do not find it ironic that the Yankee fans complaing about other teams driving up the market because alot of teams don't spend the money. Teams let their talent walk as it is, the Yankees pay their luxury tax, bogus as it may be, and other teams do not seem to capitalize on spending that money. The majority of Major League Baseball teams do not reinvest in their team so I have no sympathy for them and I do not find it ironic that I as a Yankee fan is complaining about the Mets driving up the pitching market. The Mets overpaid for a pitcher and in turn they screwed the market up, the Mets are a poorly run organization that seems to have grown tired of screwing up their franchise so they screw up the free agent market for everyone else. The Yankees have overpaid but you can not equate the signing of Kris My Wife is a Model and thats my claim to fame Benson to giving Rand heading to the Hall of Fame Johnson a contract extension when he has proven that at over 40 he is better than guys in their 20's and 30's.
AMYanks
11-07-05, 05:04 PM
A Pavano-type contract is too much in terms of money. I'd go for 4 years/$7-8 million per.
Then we won't get him.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 05:34 PM
Then we won't get him.
Tough luck then. Someone else can overpay for him.
surge511
11-07-05, 06:10 PM
I would give 10 mil to Pettitte or Zito. They are proven pitchers who can perform in the postseason. We've all seen Pettitte do it - I would love to have him back.
I Love Wang
11-07-05, 06:17 PM
Zito is going to be traded, and then signed to a contract by his new team. That team is going to pay a king's ransom for him. I don't want to deal with Billy Beane anymore than I have to.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 06:45 PM
Zito is going to be traded, and then signed to a contract by his new team. That team is going to pay a king's ransom for him. I don't want to deal with Billy Beane anymore than I have to.
Good point. How conveniently I forgot that this was Billy Beane we're talking about. He will either get traded, or extended before he ever hits free agency (much like Kotsay was).
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 06:48 PM
Good point. How conveniently I forgot that this was Billy Beane we're talking about. He will either get traded, or extended before he ever hits free agency (much like Kotsay was).
Well it's easy for you to say Zito will get traded and then that team will give him an extension, but I dont recall Mulder getting his extension from the Cards..
27IsNext
11-07-05, 06:53 PM
Well it's easy for you to say Zito will get traded and then that team will give him an extension, but I dont recall Mulder getting his extension from the Cards..
Mulder is more injury-prone. Mulder didn't have a NTC, and couldn't demand an extension from whatever team he was traded to. The same goes for Zito, although he will likely get an extension because he isn't as injury-prone as Mulder.
yankees76
11-07-05, 06:55 PM
Without rehashing old rumors and innuendo, (i) there were plenty of reasons that Andy left New York, (ii) none of those reasons seems to have changed, (iii) Houston has been very competitive his two season there, even if they do not look like they will be competitive in 2006, so it's not like he has been bored by moving from a "winner" to a "loser."
I don't see him coming back.
I have no strong feeling about Zito, but can easily see the Yankees throwing FA money at him and winding up signing him. It would be a David Wells-type signing.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 06:57 PM
Without rehashing old rumors and innuendo, (i) there were plenty of reasons that Andy left New York, (ii) none of those reasons seems to have changed, (iii) Houston has been very competitive his two season there, even if they do not look like they will be competitive in 2006, so it's not like he has been bored by moving from a "winner" to a "loser."
I don't see him coming back.
I have no strong feeling about Zito, but can easily see the Yankees throwing FA money at him and winding up signing him. It would be a David Wells-type signing.
Any chance it could end up being a David Wells-type trade the following year, where we trade Zito to the Twins for Johan Santana? ;)
yankees76
11-07-05, 06:59 PM
Would be sweet but I am sure we agree that the Twins will likely lock Santana up long before he hits the market.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 07:00 PM
Mulder is more injury-prone. Mulder didn't have a NTC, and couldn't demand an extension from whatever team he was traded to. The same goes for Zito, although he will likely get an extension because he isn't as injury-prone as Mulder.
I understand what you are trying to say but at the same time I dont agree with you...I doubt the Cardinals would have given up all those prospects if they thought Mulder was so injury prone.
A mid to late 20's lefty pitcher with plenty left in the tank is a hot commodity on the market now and forever.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 07:01 PM
Without rehashing old rumors and innuendo, (i) there were plenty of reasons that Andy left New York, (ii) none of those reasons seems to have changed, (iii) Houston has been very competitive his two season there, even if they do not look like they will be competitive in 2006, so it's not like he has been bored by moving from a "winner" to a "loser."
I don't see him coming back.
I have no strong feeling about Zito, but can easily see the Yankees throwing FA money at him and winding up signing him. It would be a David Wells-type signing.
What exactly do you mean when you said it would be like Wells type signing?
yankees76
11-07-05, 07:11 PM
What exactly do you mean when you said it would be like Wells type signing?
I know there is a lot of potentially amusing material here, but I only meant a reference to another FA signing by the Yankees of a talented lefty curve-baller.
The time has come for the Yankees to stop chasing pitchers as free agents who either have pre-existing injury problems (Petttitte) or whose best years are behind them (Zito), and develop their own (Wang, Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo...).
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 07:26 PM
The time has come for the Yankees to stop chasing pitchers as free agents who either have pre-existing injury problems (Petttitte) or whose best years are behind them (Zito), and develop their own (Wang, Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo...).
You are the second person in this thread who seems to think that Zito is done...the guy is not even 30 yet and he carried his team on his back for nearly 3 months this yr...what more can you want from him?
I would say with confidence that he is the third best lefty starter in the league behind Johan and the Unit, and by the time Zito is available Unit might be dust..
You are the second person in this thread who seems to think that Zito is done...the guy is not even 30 yet and he carried his team on his back for nearly 3 months this yr...what more can you want from him?
I would say with confidence that he is the third best lefty starter in the league behind Johan and the Unit, and by the time Zito is available Unit might be dust..
I didn't say done. I said his best years are behind, irrespective of his age:
ERA+
2002: 169
2003: 120
2004: 105
2005: 116
I would definitely take Buehrle and Sabathia over him, and maybe Kazmir too.
THEBOSS84
11-07-05, 08:04 PM
I didn't say done. I said his best years are behind, irrespective of his age:
ERA+
2002: 169
2003: 120
2004: 105
2005: 116
I would definitely take Buehrle and Sabathia over him, and maybe Kazmir too.
Buerhle yes you are right, Sabathia no way man, and Kazmir has got to show you more before you can say you would take him over Zito - come on man
Buerhle yes you are right, Sabathia no way man, and Kazmir has got to show you more before you can say you would take him over Zito - come on man
Sabathia and Kazmir haven't peaked yet. That's why I prefer them over Zito.
YankeePride1967
11-07-05, 08:16 PM
Sabathia and Kazmir haven't peaked yet. That's why I prefer them over Zito.
Exactly. We have to start growing/obtaining players on the way up, not the way down.
Exactly. We have to start growing/obtaining players on the way up, not the way down.
That is what we thought when we got Weaver and Vasquez. :( In any case though you are right, I would rather take a chance with a Kazmir/Sabathia than I would with a Zito type of player.
YankeePride1967
11-07-05, 09:11 PM
That is what we thought when we got Weaver and Vasquez. :( In any case though you are right, I would rather take a chance with a Kazmir/Sabathia than I would with a Zito type of player.
It's never a perfect formula, mistakes will be made, but it's definitely the right approach.
27IsNext
11-07-05, 09:35 PM
and develop their own (Wang, Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo...).
(Steven White, Chris Garcia, Alan Horne...)
38Special
11-07-05, 09:37 PM
Hughes/Clippard should/may be ready next year. The money wont need to be spent
surge511
11-07-05, 09:40 PM
Well it's easy for you to say Zito will get traded and then that team will give him an extension, but I dont recall Mulder getting his extension from the Cards..
Then maybe we should go after Mulder at season's end.
surge511
11-07-05, 09:45 PM
The time has come for the Yankees to stop chasing pitchers as free agents who either have pre-existing injury problems (Petttitte) or whose best years are behind them (Zito), and develop their own (Wang, Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo...).
I agree with you, but after Randy retires in 2 years, we are left with no lefties, unless Henn pans out. It would be good to have a Pettitte or Zito in the rotation to have a rock lefty that can produce. Clippard and Hughes I have high hopes for, DeSalvo I don't know about. But Wang, Chacon, Hughes and Clippard are all righthanded, so putting Zito or Pettitte in the middle of those guys would be very helpful.
I agree with you, but after Randy retires in 2 years, we are left with no lefties, unless Henn pans out. It would be good to have a Pettitte or Zito in the rotation to have a rock lefty that can produce. Clippard and Hughes I have high hopes for, DeSalvo I don't know about. But Wang, Chacon, Hughes and Clippard are all righthanded, so putting Zito or Pettitte in the middle of those guys would be very helpful.
Two years is a long time. It's possible that other prospects will emerge by then. In any event, I have no interest in pitchers who are past their prime.
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 12:21 AM
Two years is a long time. It's possible that other prospects will emerge by then. In any event, I have no interest in pitchers who are past their prime.
More importantly, what difference does it make that they're left-handed?
And if they fast-track Patterson and Kroenke, as I suspect they will, one or both could be major league ready by 2008. I believe both are left-handed.
Yankees1962
11-08-05, 04:56 AM
The time has come for the Yankees to stop chasing pitchers as free agents who either have pre-existing injury problems (Petttitte) or whose best years are behind them (Zito), and develop their own (Wang, Hughes, Clippard, DeSalvo...).
I do agree with the concept that the Yankees need to develop their own pitchers and should only trade/sign a veteran pitcher because he's needed to put them over the top. The Yankees biggest problem over the last 9-10 years is that their minor league system stopped developing pitching for the major league team.
38Special
11-08-05, 05:53 AM
Lefty Lefty Lefty :o
You may see a bunch this year. One gm was quoted as saying that bad contracts are cyclical. A bunch are given out, so people curtail their spending, then they come off the books and dumb contracts are handed out again. This may be especially so in such a bad market and teams with money who want to show their fans they are trying.
Only if the idiots start handing out stupid contracts, will there be a rush of bad signings.
A perfect example is what the Mets did with Benson, which led to Wright and Lieber and others getting ridiculous deals.
I doubt that happens here. The only position may be in the pen, but elite closers, like Ryan and Wagner, as well as Trevor, are a rare and valuble commodity.
Yankees1962
11-08-05, 07:27 AM
Lefty Lefty Lefty :o
I think it's an outdated concept that the Yankees need a left-handed starter to be successful.
Man, you guys are ruining my dream rotation for '07 and '08.
'07:
RJ
Chacon
Wang
DeSalvo
White
'08:
Hughes
Clippard
Chacon
Wang
DeSalvo
surge511
11-08-05, 08:39 AM
I think it's an outdated concept that the Yankees need a left-handed starter to be successful.
If there are 5 really good righties, by all means, make that the rotation. However, it is nice to see some variation in the rotation so that teams don't get the same look each time. That can be achieved with different types of pitchers too, I guess, like the difference between Moose and Randy, so while a lefty is nice to have, it is not completely necessary.
Hughes/Clippard should/may be ready next year. The money wont need to be spent
Exactly. White, too. Maybe a few others.
NYYRocket
11-08-05, 08:44 AM
Pettitte won't be back, he's not going to leave his family in Texas. I think Zito will be moved prior to FA
Pettitte won't be back, he's not going to leave his family in Texas. I think Zito will be moved prior to FA
That's most likely what will happen. Pettite left for a reason. The way Billy Bean works, he's not going to just let Zito walk away. If he isn't going to sign him to an extension, he's going to get the most out of a trade. You KNOW there are teams willing to give up top prospects for Zito.
Let's just hope it's not the Yankees.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 09:01 AM
Man, you guys are ruining my dream rotation for '07 and '08.
'07:
RJ
Chacon
Wang
DeSalvo
White
'08:
Hughes
Clippard
Chacon
Wang
DeSalvo
Let's get serious now, if these are the Yankees rotations for those two years the payroll will be under $100 mil - I just cant see that happening....
Let's get serious now, if these are the Yankees rotations for those two years the payroll will be under $100 mil - I just cant see that happening....
I'm VERY serious. There is a real possibility that this will (and should) happen. I'm drooling just thinking of it
:drool:
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 09:27 AM
I'm VERY serious. There is a real possibility that this will (and should) happen. I'm drooling just thinking of it
:drool:
Don't get me wrong, I hope all these pitchers pan out and are able to shape our rotation for years to come...it's just hard to see us not going for a top starter on the FA market as soon as Moose comes off the books, or as soon as the Unit comes off....
I think what you are stating is a real possibility. However, I sincerely hope that these guys open some eyes in the minors next year and lead George and Cashman to realize that they don't HAVE to go out and spend the big bucks.
Don't get me wrong, I hope all these pitchers pan out and are able to shape our rotation for years to come...it's just hard to see us not going for a top starter on the FA market as soon as Moose comes off the books, or as soon as the Unit comes off....
I don't see any Moose/RJ type pitcher being avilable in the next few years.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 09:44 AM
I don't see any Moose/RJ type pitcher being avilable in the next few years.
I just did my homework and found out that the following pitchers will be available the same offseason that the Unit comes off the books:
Halladay(best righty in AL, not even close)
Beckett(will still be relatively young and proven big game pitcher)
Oswalt (most underated pitcher in all of MLB)
Colon (most overated pitcher in all of MLB but has talent)
I just did my homework and found out that the following pitchers will be available the same offseason that the Unit comes off the books:
Halladay(best righty in AL, not even close)
Beckett(will still be relatively young and proven big game pitcher)
Oswalt (most underated pitcher in all of MLB)
Colon (most overated pitcher in all of MLB but has talent)
The only one on that list I'd go near is Oswalt. Halladay is injury-prone, Beckett is... well, he's up and down and as you said, Colon is overrated.
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 09:50 AM
I just did my homework and found out that the following pitchers will be available the same offseason that the Unit comes off the books:
Halladay(best righty in AL, not even close)
Beckett(will still be relatively young and proven big game pitcher)
Oswalt (most underated pitcher in all of MLB)
Colon (most overated pitcher in all of MLB but has talent)
I'd be willing to bet money that Halladay and Oswalt don't hit the market. Colon will be in decline, and is fat. And Beckett would have to show me something before then. Like, that he can stay healthy for a season, as opposed to going on the shelf with blister issues.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 09:50 AM
The only one on that list I'd go near is Oswalt. Halladay is injury-prone, Beckett is... well, he's up and down and as you said, Colon is overrated.
I must say, that is a fine free agent pitching class...Halladay is a must have(sure he was injured this year, but ANYONE could have suffered the injury he did by breaking his leg with a batted ball)
I must say, that is a fine free agent pitching class...Halladay is a must have(sure he was injured this year, but ANYONE could have suffered the injury he did by breaking his leg with a batted ball)
Look at his career stats. Since 1999 (when he appeared in 39 games), 2002 and 2003 are the ONLY years in which he has started more than 21 games.
1999- 18
2000 - 13
2001 - 16
2002 - 34
2003 - 36
2004 - 21
2005 - 19
That's pretty pathetic. No thanks.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 10:00 AM
Look at his career stats. Since 1999 (when he appeared in 39 games), 2002 and 2003 are the ONLY years in which he has started more than 21 games.
1999- 18
2000 - 13
2001 - 16
2002 - 34
2003 - 36
2004 - 21
2005 - 19
That's pretty pathetic. No thanks.
The numbers don't look good, but he was a minor leaguer who didn't reach his potential until the 02' season. He was sent back to the minors over and over again to work out his mechanics to perfection (they broke his mechanics down and completely changed everything aboutn the way he pitches)...2002 he was great, 2003 he won the cy, 2004 he had shoulder trouble, and 2005 he was well on track to win the cy before the freak leg incident....basically since he became an elite pitcher 4 seasons ago, he has been out 1 season with an injury that wasnt an accident. And I must add he sure looked EXCELLENT returning from his injury to start this season....
The numbers don't look good, but he was a minor leaguer who didn't reach his potential until the 02' season. He was sent back to the minors over and over again to work out his mechanics to perfection (they broke his mechanics down and completely changed everything aboutn the way he pitches)...2002 he was great, 2003 he won the cy, 2004 he had shoulder trouble, and 2005 he was well on track to win the cy before the freak leg incident....basically since he became an elite pitcher 4 seasons ago, he has been out 1 season with an injury that wasnt an accident. And I must add he sure looked EXCELLENT returning from his injury to start this season....
All those things you just said are why I wouldn't want him.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 10:04 AM
All those things you just said are why I wouldn't want him.
Be more specific..I didn't mention anything that stands out as negative in my post...
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 10:04 AM
All those things you just said are why I wouldn't want him.
You wouldn't want him because he was bad when he was younger? Honestly, that really doesn't make much sense.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 10:04 AM
You wouldn't want him because he was bad when he was younger? Honestly, that really doesn't make much sense.
Wang your on the same page as me man!!
I Love Wang
11-08-05, 10:07 AM
Wang your on the same page as me man!!
Well, I still doubt that Halladay hits the free agent market. I'm sure Toronto will try to extend him before that happens. And, I'd rather see if we can develop Hughes, Clippard, etc. into frontline pitchers before I go out and drop a ton of cash on a free agent. But if Halladay became a free agent, and I wanted to sign a pitcher, he'd be the guy I was going after. Provided, of course, that he continues to perform at a high level for the next two years.
surge511
11-08-05, 10:08 AM
I would definitely take Hallady or Oswalt for the Yankees. They are two of the top pitchers in baseball.
THEBOSS84
11-08-05, 10:10 AM
I would definitely take Hallady or Oswalt for the Yankees. They are two of the top pitchers in baseball.
I know, why is it so hard for everyone to agree that those two are VERY good FA options ?(again, assuming they hit the market)
Ok...
my reasoning:
He wasn't an established major-leaguer till two years ago. He had several mechanical and delivery problems and had to kept being sent back. After that, he had one great season, one good season, one injured season. While he's great when he's on, there needs to be far more consistency for me to pay him the money he's going to demand.
Besides, there's a realistic chance that there are going to be equally good, much cheaper options in '08. Cost-benefit.
I'm not saying he isn't a good pitcher when he's healthy and on, I'm just saying that there are better options.
Oswalt I'd snap up in a hurry. He's come into his own and pitched phenomenally over the past few years.
YankeePride1967
11-08-05, 05:42 PM
Here's the only time I would choose a lefty over a righty based on that factor alone. If it were two pitchers with pretty much the same exact skill level.
JeterRodriguezSheff
11-08-05, 08:29 PM
Andy had his chance to go down in history as the all time winningist Yankee pitcher, but decided he needed to go to Houston, what makes you think he will want to return to the Bronx. Zito is just another aging injured high priced player that will go where the money is, will he help or hurt us? We need to develope the farm so we can bring up more guys like Wang.
a whole pitching staffs of Zitos would dominate a whole pitching staff of Wangs. Zito is less of an injury risk than Wang. Dont get me wrong Wang is good but dont even compare him to Zito.
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