View Full Version : The Silver Slugger Awards...
marietta_soxfan
10-31-05, 03:41 PM
2005 Silver Slugger Award winners
American League
1B - Mark Teixeira, TEX
2B - Alfonso Soriano, TEX
3B - Alex Rodriguez, NYY
SS - Miguel Tejada, BAL
OF - Vladimir Guerrero, LAA
OF - Manny Ramirez, BOS
OF - Gary Sheffield, NYY
C - Jason Varitek, BOS
DH - David Ortiz, BOS
National League
1B - Derrek Lee, CHC
2B - Jeff Kent, LAD
3B - Morgan Ensberg, HOU
SS - Felipe Lopez, CIN
OF - Andruw Jones, ATL
OF - Miguel Cabrera, FLA
OF - Carlos Lee, MIL
C - Michael Barrett, CHC
P - Jason Marquis, STL
swityak11
10-31-05, 03:51 PM
Chase Utley and Brian Roberts were screwed. Michael Young as well. Nice to see Felipe Lopez recognized.
Outfielders are all over the map. Carlos Lee doesn't belong anywhere near that list. Jason Bay was hosed.
LuckyLopez
10-31-05, 04:35 PM
Utley - .291/.376/.540 93 R 158 H 39 2B 6 3B 28 HR 105 RBI
Kent - 289/.377/.512 100 R 160 H 36 2B 0 3B 29 HR 105 RBI
Eh. Strikes me as fairly even. I could go either way. Considering Utley played in an extreme hitter's park and Kent in an extreme pitcher's park, that's probably the way I'd go.
Roberts - .314/.387/.515 92 R 176 H 45 2B 7 3B 18 HR 73 RBI
Soriano - .268/.309/.512 102 R 171 H 43 2B 2 3B 36 HR 104 RBI
Roberts has the significant OBP advantange, Soriano's got the significant HR/RBI advantange. I probably lean towards the latter, but either way "screwed" seems harsh. Sori seems like he had a fair bid at it.
Tejada - .304/.349/.515 89 R 199 H 50 2B 5 3B 26 HR 98 RBI
Young - .331/.385/.513 114 R 221 H 40 2B 5 3B 24 HR 91 RBI
Eh, yeah ok. I feel a lot more strongly about Young over Tejada than I would Roberts or Utley. Tejada's not a horrid pick but I probably gotta disagree with it.
Bay - .306/.402/.559 110 R 183 H 44 2B 6 3B 32 HR 101 RBI
Lee - .265/.324/.487 85 R 164 H 41 2B 0 3B 32 HR 114 RBI
Ok, no arguement in the world to wage against you there. Lee shouldn't be close and Bay got hosed.
swityak11
10-31-05, 05:34 PM
Ok screwed was a harsh term in reference to Utley and Roberts. Those are actually understandable choices even if I disagree with them.
The Lee pick was mind bogglingly bad though. There are at least 10 NL outfielders who had better years at the plate. I can't even say he was the best OF hitter on his own team.
Jenkins - .292/.375/.513 87 R 157 H 42 2B 1 3B 25 HR 86 RBI
Lee - .265/.324/.487 85 R 164 H 41 2B 0 3B 32 HR 114 RBI
yankeebot
10-31-05, 05:38 PM
How is this award decided?
I Love Wang
10-31-05, 05:47 PM
Roberts did get screwed. He had a 145OPS+ to Soriano's 110. Not even close. Peralta should have won over Tejada.
LuckyLopez
10-31-05, 07:12 PM
How is this award decided?
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051031&content_id=1262651&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
The awards are bestowed by position along league lines, with designated hitter for the American League and pitcher for the National League, to outstanding offensive producers as chosen in balloting by managers and coaches.
Voters are precluded from voting for players on their own teams. Nominees are selected based on a combination of statistics and evaluations of each player's overall offensive impact.
DontHateOnNumber2
11-01-05, 09:52 AM
Congrats to the boys Sheff and A-Rod! Heck, congrats to Soriano too.
patrick.o
11-01-05, 10:37 AM
Roberts did get screwed. He had a 145OPS+ to Soriano's 110. Not even close.
No single number is the end all be all of stats. While Roberts OPS was significantly better it was all OBP. In the meantime Soriano (I just typed Soriambi :lol: ) had double the HRs and significantly more RBI, not mention 10 more R. If you want to argue that RBI and R are team stats, that's fine, but Soriano's 36 HR means that 36 of those RBI and 36 of those R were self-produced, twice as many as what Roberts did. I think the two are pretty close to even, but if I had to pick I'd take the guy who makes more of his own runs.
No single number is the end all be all of stats. While Roberts OPS was significantly better it was all OBP. In the meantime Soriano (I just typed Soriambi :lol: ) had double the HRs and significantly more RBI, not mention 10 more R. If you want to argue that RBI and R are team stats, that's fine, but Soriano's 36 HR means that 36 of those RBI and 36 or those R were self-produced, twice as many as what Roberts did. I think the two are pretty close to even, but if I had to pick I'd take the guy who makes more of his own runs.
I've been told that Soriambi is better than Soriano in most aspects of the game.
I Love Wang
11-01-05, 10:57 AM
No single number is the end all be all of stats. While Roberts OPS was significantly better it was all OBP. In the meantime Soriano (I just typed Soriambi :lol: ) had double the HRs and significantly more RBI, not mention 10 more R. If you want to argue that RBI and R are team stats, that's fine, but Soriano's 36 HR means that 36 of those RBI and 36 of those R were self-produced, twice as many as what Roberts did. I think the two are pretty close to even, but if I had to pick I'd take the guy who makes more of his own runs.
Are you serious? How about EqA? .320 to .285. Roberts hit 59 points higher than Soriano, had an on-base 78 points higher, and a slugging 3 points higher. But you think Soriano's advantage in home runs makes it even? Roberts was a MUCH better hitter than Soriano this year. It wasn't close. Giving Soriano the silver slugger award is completely indefensible.
yankees27
11-01-05, 11:55 AM
They give a Silver Slugger to pitchers?
rkh5donkey
11-01-05, 12:01 PM
They give a Silver Slugger to pitchers?
That they do (well, in the NL anyway). Mike Hampton has, like, five of them.
patrick.o
11-01-05, 11:58 PM
But you think Soriano's advantage in home runs makes it even?
Yes, and I still do based on the superficial stats, and having nothing more to look at I'd go with Soriano every time. But after looking deeper into the numbers I've changed my mind and would go with Roberts. While Soriano was vastly superior at producing runs independent of his team, when comparing numbers that are team dependent Roberts is much better. Translating his numbers with runners on, RISP, and close and late to Soriano's number of at bats in the same situations puts Roberts well ahead in all categories. So you win, Roberts was robbed, his team just didn't give him the same opportunity to shine that Soriano's did.
Soriambi
11-02-05, 12:07 AM
No single number is the end all be all of stats. While Roberts OPS was significantly better it was all OBP. In the meantime Soriano (I just typed Soriambi :lol: ) had double the HRs and significantly more RBI, not mention 10 more R. If you want to argue that RBI and R are team stats, that's fine, but Soriano's 36 HR means that 36 of those RBI and 36 of those R were self-produced, twice as many as what Roberts did. I think the two are pretty close to even, but if I had to pick I'd take the guy who makes more of his own runs.
I tend to look at it this way:
Soriambi > Roberts > Soriano.
Some might say that that's biased, but I just don't see that argument.
I hear you on the HR and self-production, Patrick, but I think that it should be noted that while you say that Roberts was significantly higher OPS-wise because of his OBP (which is true, at least for the significant part), his SLG% was also higher, despite having half as many HR, thanks to collecting more doubles and five more triples than Soriano. (Granted, the SLG%s were almost identical, but the fact that their SLG% were similar in addition to Roberts having the large OBP advantage made Roberts the better offensive players in 2005, in my opinion. I mean, if Sori had an OBP of .340 or something like that, that's one thing, but .309? That's pretty terrible. I like Soriano, but I just don't think that he should have won the award at 2B with Roberts there.
Edit: And I probably should have read the next five posts or so to see that I didn't need to argue, since Patrick changed his mind. :lol:
I've been told that Soriambi is better than Soriano in most aspects of the game.
Yet I haven't been traded for A-rod even once. I actually haven't been traded for anyone in the league with a -Rod, and there are like twenty-seven of them. (In the AL.)
Yet I haven't been traded for A-rod even once. I actually haven't been traded for anyone in the league with a -Rod, and there are like twenty-seven of them. (In the AL.)
Why would anyone trade Soriambi for anyone?
Soriambi
11-02-05, 12:17 AM
Why would anyone trade Soriambi for anyone?
Salary dump.
And for what it's worth, I agree that Lee (Carlos, not Derrek) was undeserving, and that Young was far better offensively than Tejada, and should have won the Silver Slugger at short. I had no problem with Kent beating Utley, though Utley was probably at least slightly more deserving.
I Love Wang
11-02-05, 10:57 AM
Yes, and I still do based on the superficial stats, and having nothing more to look at I'd go with Soriano every time. But after looking deeper into the numbers I've changed my mind and would go with Roberts. While Soriano was vastly superior at producing runs independent of his team, when comparing numbers that are team dependent Roberts is much better. Translating his numbers with runners on, RISP, and close and late to Soriano's number of at bats in the same situations puts Roberts well ahead in all categories. So you win, Roberts was robbed, his team just didn't give him the same opportunity to shine that Soriano's did.
You've got that backwards. RBIs are the team dependent stat. If Roberts had been in the middle of the order, instead of leading off, he'd have produced more runs in that fashion. Getting on base and slugging are team independent. Because Roberts was significantly better at these things, he should have won, and it shouldn't have been close.
I'm surprised that Dontrelle didn't win the Silver Slugger for pitchers. He had better offensive stats than Christian Guzman!
Smithers
11-02-05, 11:58 AM
I'm surprised that Dontrelle didn't win the Silver Slugger for pitchers.
that was the first thing i thought of. he got shafted.
patrick.o
11-02-05, 01:20 PM
You've got that backwards. RBIs are the team dependent stat.
If you go back and re-read what I said you'll see I was talking about the 36 RBI produced by knocking himself in with the 36 HR as team indepenent. The rest of the RBI are, obviously, team dependent and Roberts produced those at a higher rate, which is one of the reasons I changed my mind.
And Roberts wasn't significantly better at slugging, he was equal.
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